The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
Brown and Blair
That was just two people. These are 318 who hate each other.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
Brown and Blair
That was just two people. These are 318 who hate each other.
How can you be suspended for something that’s reported as having been referred to the police, yet not be aware of the nature of the allegation?
Complaint is raised to the Tory party.
Tory Party pass it on to the police.
Police yet to contact Mr Elphicke.
So someone from the party calls him up, tells him he’s been suspended and to expect a knock on the door from Plod - but won’t say why?
Yup, is possible.
Is the Chief Whip’s first full day on the job.
Yes, top decision to move the Chief Whip in the middle of a personnel crisis.
Mrs May’s not very good is she ?
You might think that; I couldn't possibly comment.
Actually, bollocks, I could. She's the second-worst Tory leader in my lifetime, though oddly, she's still the best party leader on offer today (hence the 40% polling for the Cons).
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
I remember being assured before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
I remember being assured before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
I remember being assured before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
On Elphicke, we have yet to hear what the allegations are - but at this point I'd say he has a fair claim for constructive dismissal should the timeline be as he has tweeted. Tipping off the press about an allegation before being notified of it yrself is either piss poor, or the whips want him gone quickly.
He hasn't been dismissed from his job as an MP though - is there legal redress for having your party whip withdrawn?
Only if its contrary to Party rules or process.
If there has been a serious and reasonably credible (i.e. one which can't be dismissed out of hand) allegation, it's a fairly normal action.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
I remember being assured before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
It was until the silly GE.
The GE was awesome, it proved I was a visionary when it came to Mrs May.
I warned ye all that she was a pound shop Gordon Brown.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
I remember being assured before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
If a party is full of sex abusers, it really doesn't matter who voted which way.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
And for so long we laughed at the what now seems to be the ever so quaint in-fighting between Blair and Brown.
Like we used to call non-terrorist villains in NI - ordinary decent criminals..
I miss the good old days of boring, liberal, Dave.
Amen, every passing day I'm more convinced Dave will be the last Tory to win a majority.
There's a feeling that Brexit will do to the Tory party what WWI did to the Liberals.
And what would fill it? UKIP are a joke, the Greens are utterly mental and the Liberal Democrats are working hard to minimise the policy differences between them and Labour. If Clegg was LD leader then there would be the possibility for a landscape change.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
@Peston: Theresa May and the whips are presumably utterly confident of the credibility of the allegations against Elphicke - because Tory MPs will be furious with them if they jumped gun
Coming after the old Chief Whip appointed himself Defence Secretary, this could be bad...
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
I remember being assured before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
I miss the good old days of boring, liberal, Dave.
Amen, every passing day I'm more convinced Dave will be the last Tory to win a majority.
There's a feeling that Brexit will do to the Tory party what WWI did to the Liberals.
I was going to do a piece about Brexit being to the Tories what the General Strike was to the unions (I'm reading a book on the strike at the moment). Both were led by leaders whose hearts weren't in it and who knew they couldn't win, though I think the final outcomes will be sufficiently different to justify not writing it.
I miss the good old days of boring, liberal, Dave.
Amen, every passing day I'm more convinced Dave will be the last Tory to win a majority.
There's a feeling that Brexit will do to the Tory party what WWI did to the Liberals.
And what would fill it? UKIP are a joke, the Greens are utterly mental and the Liberal Democrats are working hard to minimise the policy differences between them and Labour.
A new party, made up of the Yellow Bookers, One Nation Pro Business One Nation Tories, and the Blairites.
Politics, like nature, abhors a vacuum, something will replace the Tory party if it fails.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
I remember being assured before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
It was until the silly GE.
The GE was awesome, it proved I was a visionary when it came to Mrs May.
I warned ye all that she was a pound shop Gordon Brown.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
I remember being assured before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
It was until the silly GE.
The GE was awesome, it proved I was a visionary when it came to Mrs May.
I warned ye all that she was a pound shop Gordon Brown.
Except she won 13% more than Brown did and 60 more seats.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
I remember being assured before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
If a party is full of sex abusers, it really doesn't matter who voted which way.
A think we need some care here.
None of the parties are full of sex abusers and there are many upstanding MP's in all parties who must be horrified and who have always treated women with the upmost of respect
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
Meanwhile Brexit spirals out of control, damaging everything in its path. We had dinner with a friend of my wife earlier - she is involved in recruitment of nurses and said that since it is now almost impossible to get recruits from EU countries hospitals are recruiting from India and the Philippines instead. The position is so desperate that the requirement for candidates to hold IELTS certificates (to prove fluency in English) is being ignored and nurses are being recruited without formal proof of their language ability. Just another way in which Brexit is impacting on the NHS which is not quite the same as we were promised at the referendum.
I miss the good old days of boring, liberal, Dave.
Amen, every passing day I'm more convinced Dave will be the last Tory to win a majority.
There's a feeling that Brexit will do to the Tory party what WWI did to the Liberals.
The Liberals were of course replaced by a more leftwing party, Labour, which would mean the Tories would be replaced by a more rightwing party like UKIP (a la Canada 1993).
Only possible if the Tories reverse Brexit or refuse to end free movement in order to stay in the single market.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
I remember being assured before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
If a party is full of sex abusers, it really doesn't matter who voted which way.
There's evidence that this is not party political - it goes across all parties (although the Tories may to be using it to settle personal scores).
@Peston: Theresa May and the whips are presumably utterly confident of the credibility of the allegations against Elphicke - because Tory MPs will be furious with them if they jumped gun
Coming after the old Chief Whip appointed himself Defence Secretary, this could be bad...
Not really sure of Peston's reasoning. Tory MPs would also have been furious if Elphicke was not suspended after allegations emerged, and then the press was full of 'Tories covered up allegations' stories like the ones thrown at Corbyn that he knew about Hopkins allegations and did nothing. The allegations are apparently serious, so needed a reaction, but that doesn't mean they are confident they are credible I'd have thought, just that they cannot be seen to ignore it, so call in the fuzz.
Seems like No.10 would be condemned no matter what they did - tipping the press first seems the only thing TOry MPs can be legitimately mad about.
I miss the good old days of boring, liberal, Dave.
Amen, every passing day I'm more convinced Dave will be the last Tory to win a majority.
There's a feeling that Brexit will do to the Tory party what WWI did to the Liberals.
And what would fill it? UKIP are a joke, the Greens are utterly mental and the Liberal Democrats are working hard to minimise the policy differences between them and Labour.
A new party, made up of the Yellow Bookers, One Nation Pro Business One Nation Tories, and the Blairites.
Politics, like nature, abhors a vacuum, something will replace the Tory party if it fails.
The Tory Party and Labour would both split in that case, with the centrist wings of both parties and the LDs uniting, perhaps led by Chuka Umunna or George Osborne and the right of the Tories being joined by UKIP, perhaps led by Jacob Rees Mogg and the left of Labour perhaps joined by the Greens still led by Jeremy Corbyn.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
I remember being assured before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
If a party is full of sex abusers, it really doesn't matter who voted which way.
That's a hell of an overreaction. Even if we assume every allegation on the infamous dossier is true, plenty of those were not even allegations of poor conduct. Add in some names not on the dossier for similar allegations. For some others the most extreme allegations will be something like sexist language - wrong, but not sex abuse - and at the worst we are talking a handful to a dozen people who have done bad things and some more who have displayed poor behaviour which can be atoned for. That's a party with a problem to sort out but 'full of sex abusers'? Come on.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
I remember being assured before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
If a party is full of sex abusers, it really doesn't matter who voted which way.
A think we need some care here.
None of the parties are full of sex abusers and there are many upstanding MP's in all parties who must be horrified and who have always treated women with the upmost of respect
Agreed in parts it is turning into a modern day Salem , with no due process.
@Peston: Theresa May and the whips are presumably utterly confident of the credibility of the allegations against Elphicke - because Tory MPs will be furious with them if they jumped gun
Coming after the old Chief Whip appointed himself Defence Secretary, this could be bad...
Not really sure of Peston's reasoning. Tory MPs would also have been furious if Elphicke was not suspended after allegations emerged, and then the press was full of 'Tories covered up allegations' stories like the ones thrown at Corbyn that he knew about Hopkins allegations and did nothing. The allegations are apparently serious, so needed a reaction, but that doesn't mean they are confident they are credible I'd have thought, just that they cannot be seen to ignore it, so call in the fuzz.
Seems like No.10 would be condemned no matter what they did - tipping the press first seems the only thing TOry MPs can be legitimately mad about.
And Esther is deputy chief whip - she will be aware of the circumstances and no doubt endorsed the action
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
Meanwhile Brexit spirals out of control, damaging everything in its path. We had dinner with a friend of my wife earlier - she is involved in recruitment of nurses and said that since it is now almost impossible to get recruits from EU countries hospitals are recruiting from India and the Philippines instead. The position is so desperate that the requirement for candidates to hold IELTS certificates (to prove fluency in English) is being ignored and nurses are being recruited without formal proof of their language ability. Just another way in which Brexit is impacting on the NHS which is not quite the same as we were promised at the referendum.
The Phillipinos are excellent nurses, the problem is the visas.
I miss the good old days of boring, liberal, Dave.
Amen, every passing day I'm more convinced Dave will be the last Tory to win a majority.
There's a feeling that Brexit will do to the Tory party what WWI did to the Liberals.
And what would fill it? UKIP are a joke, the Greens are utterly mental and the Liberal Democrats are working hard to minimise the policy differences between them and Labour.
A new party, made up of the Yellow Bookers, One Nation Pro Business One Nation Tories, and the Blairites.
Politics, like nature, abhors a vacuum, something will replace the Tory party if it fails.
The Tory Party and Labour would both split in that case, with the centrist wings of both parties and the LDs uniting, perhaps led by Chuka Umunna or George Osborne and the right of the Tories being joined by UKIP, perhaps led by Jacob Rees Mogg and the left of Labour perhaps joined by the Greens still led by Jeremy Corbyn.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
I remember being assured before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
It was until the silly GE.
The GE was awesome, it proved I was a visionary when it came to Mrs May.
I warned ye all that she was a pound shop Gordon Brown.
Gordon Brown had to step down after the 2010 election.
@Peston: Theresa May and the whips are presumably utterly confident of the credibility of the allegations against Elphicke - because Tory MPs will be furious with them if they jumped gun
Coming after the old Chief Whip appointed himself Defence Secretary, this could be bad...
Not really sure of Peston's reasoning. Tory MPs would also have been furious if Elphicke was not suspended after allegations emerged, and then the press was full of 'Tories covered up allegations' stories like the ones thrown at Corbyn that he knew about Hopkins allegations and did nothing. The allegations are apparently serious, so needed a reaction, but that doesn't mean they are confident they are credible I'd have thought, just that they cannot be seen to ignore it, so call in the fuzz.
Seems like No.10 would be condemned no matter what they did - tipping the press first seems the only thing TOry MPs can be legitimately mad about.
And Esther is deputy chief whip - she will be aware of the circumstances and no doubt endorsed the action
Taking all that at face value, given we don't know the facts, informing the press before the bloke himself is a pretty shitty thing to do and indicative of an organisation that is on a downward spiral.
I miss the good old days of boring, liberal, Dave.
Amen, every passing day I'm more convinced Dave will be the last Tory to win a majority.
There's a feeling that Brexit will do to the Tory party what WWI did to the Liberals.
And what would fill it? UKIP are a joke, the Greens are utterly mental and the Liberal Democrats are working hard to minimise the policy differences between them and Labour.
A new party, made up of the Yellow Bookers, One Nation Pro Business One Nation Tories, and the Blairites.
Politics, like nature, abhors a vacuum, something will replace the Tory party if it fails.
The Tory Party and Labour would both split in that case, with the centrist wings of both parties and the LDs uniting, perhaps led by Chuka Umunna or George Osborne and the right of the Tories being joined by UKIP, perhaps led by Jacob Rees Mogg and the left of Labour perhaps joined by the Greens still led by Jeremy Corbyn.
While I accept the point that nature abhors a vacuum and all that, most senior figures are so committed to a party brand even when it makes no sense, that I struggle to see while the opponent party would split even if one of the parties did - Chuka Umunna for instance would be pilloried by half his own supporters at least if he said 'I have more in common with a former Tory' and the same applies for plenty of Tories, I just don't see any party that is not collapsing in support splitting. Even when many feared Labour was on course for a total shellacking, there was no real suggestion they would split, not credibly.
I miss the good old days of boring, liberal, Dave.
Amen, every passing day I'm more convinced Dave will be the last Tory to win a majority.
There's a feeling that Brexit will do to the Tory party what WWI did to the Liberals.
And what would fill it? UKIP are a joke, the Greens are utterly mental and the Liberal Democrats are working hard to minimise the policy differences between them and Labour.
A new party, made up of the Yellow Bookers, One Nation Pro Business One Nation Tories, and the Blairites.
Politics, like nature, abhors a vacuum, something will replace the Tory party if it fails.
The Tory Party and Labour would both split in that case, with the centrist wings of both parties and the LDs uniting, perhaps led by Chuka Umunna or George Osborne and the right of the Tories being joined by UKIP, perhaps led by Jacob Rees Mogg and the left of Labour perhaps joined by the Greens still led by Jeremy Corbyn.
I've just found out that I'm blocked from Nicholas Soames' twitter account. Not sure what I've done to deserve that. So that's at least two MPs down: 648 to go.
This smells like the expenses scandal all over again. A large element of poor but not illegal behaviour mixed up with a few cretins who thought they were above the law.
Time for a change.....but not a simple left right flip flop. Time to turn politics upside down....a la Macron!
@Peston: Theresa May and the whips are presumably utterly confident of the credibility of the allegations against Elphicke - because Tory MPs will be furious with them if they jumped gun
Coming after the old Chief Whip appointed himself Defence Secretary, this could be bad...
Not really sure of Peston's reasoning. Tory MPs would also have been furious if Elphicke was not suspended after allegations emerged, and then the press was full of 'Tories covered up allegations' stories like the ones thrown at Corbyn that he knew about Hopkins allegations and did nothing. The allegations are apparently serious, so needed a reaction, but that doesn't mean they are confident they are credible I'd have thought, just that they cannot be seen to ignore it, so call in the fuzz.
Seems like No.10 would be condemned no matter what they did - tipping the press first seems the only thing TOry MPs can be legitimately mad about.
And Esther is deputy chief whip - she will be aware of the circumstances and no doubt endorsed the action
Taking all that at face value, given we don't know the facts, informing the press before the bloke himself is a pretty shitty thing to do and indicative of an organisation that is on a downward spiral.
It's indicative of a party focusing on press reaction first, the individual second. Crappy, but not necessarily saying anything more.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
Meanwhile Brexit spirals out of control, damaging everything in its path. We had dinner with a friend of my wife earlier - she is involved in recruitment of nurses and said that since it is now almost impossible to get recruits from EU countries hospitals are recruiting from India and the Philippines instead. The position is so desperate that the requirement for candidates to hold IELTS certificates (to prove fluency in English) is being ignored and nurses are being recruited without formal proof of their language ability. Just another way in which Brexit is impacting on the NHS which is not quite the same as we were promised at the referendum.
The Phillipinos are excellent nurses, the problem is the visas.
Indeed they are. And they generally do speak pretty good English. But it's worrying (if true) that qualification requirements are being bypassed.
@Peston: Theresa May and the whips are presumably utterly confident of the credibility of the allegations against Elphicke - because Tory MPs will be furious with them if they jumped gun
Coming after the old Chief Whip appointed himself Defence Secretary, this could be bad...
Not really sure of Peston's reasoning. Tory MPs would also have been furious if Elphicke was not suspended after allegations emerged, and then the press was full of 'Tories covered up allegations' stories like the ones thrown at Corbyn that he knew about Hopkins allegations and did nothing. The allegations are apparently serious, so needed a reaction, but that doesn't mean they are confident they are credible I'd have thought, just that they cannot be seen to ignore it, so call in the fuzz.
Seems like No.10 would be condemned no matter what they did - tipping the press first seems the only thing TOry MPs can be legitimately mad about.
And Esther is deputy chief whip - she will be aware of the circumstances and no doubt endorsed the action
Taking all that at face value, given we don't know the facts, informing the press before the bloke himself is a pretty shitty thing to do and indicative of an organisation that is on a downward spiral.
As has been said the danger is that any delay risks the problems Corbyn has had today over cover ups.
I miss the good old days of boring, liberal, Dave.
Amen, every passing day I'm more convinced Dave will be the last Tory to win a majority.
There's a feeling that Brexit will do to the Tory party what WWI did to the Liberals.
And what would fill it? UKIP are a joke, the Greens are utterly mental and the Liberal Democrats are working hard to minimise the policy differences between them and Labour.
A new party, made up of the Yellow Bookers, One Nation Pro Business One Nation Tories, and the Blairites.
Politics, like nature, abhors a vacuum, something will replace the Tory party if it fails.
The Tory Party and Labour would both split in that case, with the centrist wings of both parties and the LDs uniting, perhaps led by Chuka Umunna or George Osborne and the right of the Tories being joined by UKIP, perhaps led by Jacob Rees Mogg and the left of Labour perhaps joined by the Greens still led by Jeremy Corbyn.
While I accept the point that nature abhors a vacuum and all that, most senior figures are so committed to a party brand even when it makes no sense, that I struggle to see while the opponent party would split even if one of the parties did - Chuka Umunna for instance would be pilloried by half his own supporters at least if he said 'I have more in common with a former Tory' and the same applies for plenty of Tories, I just don't see any party that is not collapsing in support splitting. Even when many feared Labour was on course for a total shellacking, there was no real suggestion they would split, not credibly.
It would take a Macron style new party of the centre most probably which was durable unlike the SDP.
I've just found out that I'm blocked from Nicholas Soames' twitter account. Not sure what I've done to deserve that. So that's at least two MPs down: 648 to go.
This smells like the expenses scandal all over again. A large element of poor but not illegal behaviour mixed up with a few cretins who thought they were above the law.
Time for a change.....but not a simple left right flip flop. Time to turn politics upside down....a la Macron!
@Peston: Theresa May and the whips are presumably utterly confident of the credibility of the allegations against Elphicke - because Tory MPs will be furious with them if they jumped gun
Coming after the old Chief Whip appointed himself Defence Secretary, this could be bad...
Not really sure of Peston's reasoning. Tory MPs would also have been furious if Elphicke was not suspended after allegations emerged, and then the press was full of 'Tories covered up allegations' stories like the ones thrown at Corbyn that he knew about Hopkins allegations and did nothing. The allegations are apparently serious, so needed a reaction, but that doesn't mean they are confident they are credible I'd have thought, just that they cannot be seen to ignore it, so call in the fuzz.
Seems like No.10 would be condemned no matter what they did - tipping the press first seems the only thing TOry MPs can be legitimately mad about.
And Esther is deputy chief whip - she will be aware of the circumstances and no doubt endorsed the action
Taking all that at face value, given we don't know the facts, informing the press before the bloke himself is a pretty shitty thing to do and indicative of an organisation that is on a downward spiral.
Hard to understand why they would not have the courtesy to inform him.
@Peston: Theresa May and the whips are presumably utterly confident of the credibility of the allegations against Elphicke - because Tory MPs will be furious with them if they jumped gun
Coming after the old Chief Whip appointed himself Defence Secretary, this could be bad...
Not really sure of Peston's reasoning. Tory MPs would also have been furious if Elphicke was not suspended after allegations emerged, and then the press was full of 'Tories covered up allegations' stories like the ones thrown at Corbyn that he knew about Hopkins allegations and did nothing. The allegations are apparently serious, so needed a reaction, but that doesn't mean they are confident they are credible I'd have thought, just that they cannot be seen to ignore it, so call in the fuzz.
Seems like No.10 would be condemned no matter what they did - tipping the press first seems the only thing TOry MPs can be legitimately mad about.
And Esther is deputy chief whip - she will be aware of the circumstances and no doubt endorsed the action
Taking all that at face value, given we don't know the facts, informing the press before the bloke himself is a pretty shitty thing to do and indicative of an organisation that is on a downward spiral.
It's indicative of a party focusing on press reaction first, the individual second. Crappy, but not necessarily saying anything more.
Winning teams don't turn on each other. You only get the infighting when you're facing relegation. Unless you're Arsenal.
I miss the good old days of boring, liberal, Dave.
Amen, every passing day I'm more convinced Dave will be the last Tory to win a majority.
There's a feeling that Brexit will do to the Tory party what WWI did to the Liberals.
And what would fill it? UKIP are a joke, the Greens are utterly mental and the Liberal Democrats are working hard to minimise the policy differences between them and Labour.
A new party, made up of the Yellow Bookers, One Nation Pro Business One Nation Tories, and the Blairites.
Politics, like nature, abhors a vacuum, something will replace the Tory party if it fails.
The Tory Party and Labour would both split in that case, with the centrist wings of both parties and the LDs uniting, perhaps led by Chuka Umunna or George Osborne and the right of the Tories being joined by UKIP, perhaps led by Jacob Rees Mogg and the left of Labour perhaps joined by the Greens still led by Jeremy Corbyn.
While I accept the point that nature abhors a vacuum and all that, most senior figures are so committed to a party brand even when it makes no sense, that I struggle to see while the opponent party would split even if one of the parties did - Chuka Umunna for instance would be pilloried by half his own supporters at least if he said 'I have more in common with a former Tory' and the same applies for plenty of Tories, I just don't see any party that is not collapsing in support splitting. Even when many feared Labour was on course for a total shellacking, there was no real suggestion they would split, not credibly.
It would take a Macron style new party of the centre most probably which was durable unlike the SDP.
And yet both our main parties, even now, have much more support than any of the traditional parties as Macron barged his way into the scene. I just don't think there is the space for a Macron surge, and no one serious is going to take the first plunge, when all it would mean is whoever their current opponent is would win.
@Peston: Theresa May and the whips are presumably utterly confident of the credibility of the allegations against Elphicke - because Tory MPs will be furious with them if they jumped gun
Coming after the old Chief Whip appointed himself Defence Secretary, this could be bad...
Not really sure of Peston's reasoning. Tory MPs would also have been furious if Elphicke was not suspended after allegations emerged, and then the press was full of 'Tories covered up allegations' stories like the ones thrown at Corbyn that he knew about Hopkins allegations and did nothing. The allegations are apparently serious, so needed a reaction, but that doesn't mean they are confident they are credible I'd have thought, just that they cannot be seen to ignore it, so call in the fuzz.
Seems like No.10 would be condemned no matter what they did - tipping the press first seems the only thing TOry MPs can be legitimately mad about.
And Esther is deputy chief whip - she will be aware of the circumstances and no doubt endorsed the action
Taking all that at face value, given we don't know the facts, informing the press before the bloke himself is a pretty shitty thing to do and indicative of an organisation that is on a downward spiral.
It's indicative of a party focusing on press reaction first, the individual second. Crappy, but not necessarily saying anything more.
Winning teams don't turn on each other. You only get the infighting when you're facing relegation. Unless you're Arsenal.
I didn't say they were winning - everyone can see the party is divided and in a bad way right now. I just don't think informing the press before the bloke had anything to do with that, as it seems perfectly possible they are just caring more about protecting against allegations they didn't act on the information.
Say the Tories were united and happy right now, but then this same scandal erupted. I still think they'd tell the press first in this situation, shitty as it is.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
I remember being assured before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party.
It was until the silly GE.
The GE was awesome, it proved I was a visionary when it came to Mrs May.
I warned ye all that she was a pound shop Gordon Brown.
Gordon Brown had to step down after the 2010 election.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
Meanwhile Brexit spirals out of control, damaging everything in its path. We had dinner with a friend of my wife earlier - she is involved in recruitment of nurses and said that since it is now almost impossible to get recruits from EU countries hospitals are recruiting from India and the Philippines instead. The position is so desperate that the requirement for candidates to hold IELTS certificates (to prove fluency in English) is being ignored and nurses are being recruited without formal proof of their language ability. Just another way in which Brexit is impacting on the NHS which is not quite the same as we were promised at the referendum.
Of course Hunt would tell you he's employing more and more nurses. He's not, it's another lie. There are fewer nurses employed in the NHS than there were 12 months ago.
@Peston: Theresa May and the whips are presumably utterly confident of the credibility of the allegations against Elphicke - because Tory MPs will be furious with them if they jumped gun
Coming after the old Chief Whip appointed himself Defence Secretary, this could be bad...
Not really sure of Peston's reasoning. Tory MPs would also have been furious if Elphicke was not suspended after allegations emerged, and then the press was full of 'Tories covered up allegations' stories like the ones thrown at Corbyn that he knew about Hopkins allegations and did nothing. The allegations are apparently serious, so needed a reaction, but that doesn't mean they are confident they are credible I'd have thought, just that they cannot be seen to ignore it, so call in the fuzz.
Seems like No.10 would be condemned no matter what they did - tipping the press first seems the only thing TOry MPs can be legitimately mad about.
And Esther is deputy chief whip - she will be aware of the circumstances and no doubt endorsed the action
Taking all that at face value, given we don't know the facts, informing the press before the bloke himself is a pretty shitty thing to do and indicative of an organisation that is on a downward spiral.
Hard to understand why they would not have the courtesy to inform him.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
Meanwhile Brexit spirals out of control, damaging everything in its path. We had dinner with a friend of my wife earlier - she is involved in recruitment of nurses and said that since it is now almost impossible to get recruits from EU countries hospitals are recruiting from India and the Philippines instead. The position is so desperate that the requirement for candidates to hold IELTS certificates (to prove fluency in English) is being ignored and nurses are being recruited without formal proof of their language ability. Just another way in which Brexit is impacting on the NHS which is not quite the same as we were promised at the referendum.
Of course Hunt would tell you he's employing more and more nurses. He's not, it's another lie. There are fewer nurses employed in the NHS than there were 12 months ago.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
Meanwhile Brexit spirals out of control, damaging everything in its path. We had dinner with a friend of my wife earlier - she is involved in recruitment of nurses and said that since it is now almost impossible to get recruits from EU countries hospitals are recruiting from India and the Philippines instead. The position is so desperate that the requirement for candidates to hold IELTS certificates (to prove fluency in English) is being ignored and nurses are being recruited without formal proof of their language ability. Just another way in which Brexit is impacting on the NHS which is not quite the same as we were promised at the referendum.
The Phillipinos are excellent nurses, the problem is the visas.
Indeed they are. And they generally do speak pretty good English. But it's worrying (if true) that qualification requirements are being bypassed.
Not sure how that would be done, as they couldn't be registered by the NMC.
I know that in Leicester we have employed nurses awaiting language tests or other documentation as Health Care Assistants.
@Peston: Theresa May and the whips are presumably utterly confident of the credibility of the allegations against Elphicke - because Tory MPs will be furious with them if they jumped gun
Coming after the old Chief Whip appointed himself Defence Secretary, this could be bad...
Not really sure of Peston's reasoning. Tory MPs would also have been furious if Elphicke was not suspended after allegations emerged, and then the press was full of 'Tories covered up allegations' stories like the ones thrown at Corbyn that he knew about Hopkins allegations and did nothing. The allegations are apparently serious, so needed a reaction, but that doesn't mean they are confident they are credible I'd have thought, just that they cannot be seen to ignore it, so call in the fuzz.
Seems like No.10 would be condemned no matter what they did - tipping the press first seems the only thing TOry MPs can be legitimately mad about.
And Esther is deputy chief whip - she will be aware of the circumstances and no doubt endorsed the action
Taking all that at face value, given we don't know the facts, informing the press before the bloke himself is a pretty shitty thing to do and indicative of an organisation that is on a downward spiral.
Hard to understand why they would not have the courtesy to inform him.
Flight risk?
I doubt it's for the party to make that judgement!
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
Meanwhile Brexit spirals out of control, damaging everything in its path. We had dinner with a friend of my wife earlier - she is involved in recruitment of nurses and said that since it is now almost impossible to get recruits from EU countries hospitals are recruiting from India and the Philippines instead. The position is so desperate that the requirement for candidates to hold IELTS certificates (to prove fluency in English) is being ignored and nurses are being recruited without formal proof of their language ability. Just another way in which Brexit is impacting on the NHS which is not quite the same as we were promised at the referendum.
I miss the good old days of boring, liberal, Dave.
Amen, every passing day I'm more convinced Dave will be the last Tory to win a majority.
There's a feeling that Brexit will do to the Tory party what WWI did to the Liberals.
And what would fill it? UKIP are a joke, the Greens are utterly mental and the Liberal Democrats are working hard to minimise the policy differences between them and Labour.
A new party, made up of the Yellow Bookers, One Nation Pro Business One Nation Tories, and the Blairites.
Politics, like nature, abhors a vacuum, something will replace the Tory party if it fails.
The Tory Party and Labour would both split in that case, with the centrist wings of both parties and the LDs uniting, perhaps led by Chuka Umunna or George Osborne and the right of the Tories being joined by UKIP, perhaps led by Jacob Rees Mogg and the left of Labour perhaps joined by the Greens still led by Jeremy Corbyn.
While I accept the point that nature abhors a vacuum and all that, most senior figures are so committed to a party brand even when it makes no sense, that I struggle to see while the opponent party would split even if one of the parties did - Chuka Umunna for instance would be pilloried by half his own supporters at least if he said 'I have more in common with a former Tory' and the same applies for plenty of Tories, I just don't see any party that is not collapsing in support splitting. Even when many feared Labour was on course for a total shellacking, there was no real suggestion they would split, not credibly.
It would take a Macron style new party of the centre most probably which was durable unlike the SDP.
And yet both our main parties, even now, have much more support than any of the traditional parties as Macron barged his way into the scene. I just don't think there is the space for a Macron surge, and no one serious is going to take the first plunge, when all it would mean is whoever their current opponent is would win.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
Meanwhile Brexit spirals out of control, damaging everything in its path. We had dinner with a friend of my wife earlier - she is involved in recruitment of nurses and said that since it is now almost impossible to get recruits from EU countries hospitals are recruiting from India and the Philippines instead. The position is so desperate that the requirement for candidates to hold IELTS certificates (to prove fluency in English) is being ignored and nurses are being recruited without formal proof of their language ability. Just another way in which Brexit is impacting on the NHS which is not quite the same as we were promised at the referendum.
The Phillipinos are excellent nurses, the problem is the visas.
Indeed they are. And they generally do speak pretty good English. But it's worrying (if true) that qualification requirements are being bypassed.
Not sure how that would be done, as they couldn't be registered by the NMC.
I know that in Leicester we have employed nurses awaiting language tests or other documentation as Health Care Assistants.
Never mind when Nicola increases taxes you will be able to recruit Scottish nurses
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
Meanwhile Brexit spirals out of control, damaging everything in its path. We had dinner with a friend of my wife earlier - she is involved in recruitment of nurses and said that since it is now almost impossible to get recruits from EU countries hospitals are recruiting from India and the Philippines instead. The position is so desperate that the requirement for candidates to hold IELTS certificates (to prove fluency in English) is being ignored and nurses are being recruited without formal proof of their language ability. Just another way in which Brexit is impacting on the NHS which is not quite the same as we were promised at the referendum.
Somehow I doubt this given that the language test is a legal requirement under rules brought in in January 2016. Nurses cannot get NMC registration without passing it.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
Meanwhile Brexit spirals out of control, damaging everything in its path. We had dinner with a friend of my wife earlier - she is involved in recruitment of nurses and said that since it is now almost impossible to get recruits from EU countries hospitals are recruiting from India and the Philippines instead. The position is so desperate that the requirement for candidates to hold IELTS certificates (to prove fluency in English) is being ignored and nurses are being recruited without formal proof of their language ability. Just another way in which Brexit is impacting on the NHS which is not quite the same as we were promised at the referendum.
English is very widely spoken in the Philippines - it was a US protectorate after all. In my experience Of NHS hospitals - and via elderly relatives I have seen plenty over recent years - they are generally amongst the best nurses of all (pleasant and caring) and none has had any issue communicating in English or being understood either.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
Meanwhile Brexit spirals out of control, damaging everything in its path. We had dinner with a friend of my wife earlier - she is involved in recruitment of nurses and said that since it is now almost impossible to get recruits from EU countries hospitals are recruiting from India and the Philippines instead. The position is so desperate that the requirement for candidates to hold IELTS certificates (to prove fluency in English) is being ignored and nurses are being recruited without formal proof of their language ability. Just another way in which Brexit is impacting on the NHS which is not quite the same as we were promised at the referendum.
What's the link to Brexit?
That EU nurses won't come to the UK because their future is unclear. So the NHS is recruiting from India and the Philippines which is much more expensive. Recruitment from EU countries has dropped by more than 90% i believe.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
Meanwhile Brexit spirals out of control, damaging everything in its path. We had dinner with a friend of my wife earlier - she is involved in recruitment of nurses and said that since it is now almost impossible to get recruits from EU countries hospitals are recruiting from India and the Philippines instead. The position is so desperate that the requirement for candidates to hold IELTS certificates (to prove fluency in English) is being ignored and nurses are being recruited without formal proof of their language ability. Just another way in which Brexit is impacting on the NHS which is not quite the same as we were promised at the referendum.
English is very widely spoken in the Philippines - it was a US protectorate after all. In my experience Of NHS hospitals - and via elderly relatives I have seen plenty over recent years - they are generally amongst the best nurses of all (pleasant and caring) and none has had any issue communicating in English or being understood either.
Cruise ships are largely staffed with Philippine crew who speak excellent English
I miss the good old days of boring, liberal, Dave.
Amen, every passing day I'm more convinced Dave will be the last Tory to win a majority.
There's a feeling that Brexit will do to the Tory party what WWI did to the Liberals.
And what would fill it? UKIP are a joke, the Greens are utterly mental and the Liberal Democrats are working hard to minimise the policy differences between them and Labour.
A new party, made up of the Yellow Bookers, One Nation Pro Business One Nation Tories, and the Blairites.
Politics, like nature, abhors a vacuum, something will replace the Tory party if it fails.
The Tory Party and Labour would both split in that case, with the centrist wings of both parties and the LDs uniting, perhaps led by Chuka Umunna or George Osborne and the right of the Tories being joined by UKIP, perhaps led by Jacob Rees Mogg and the left of Labour perhaps joined by the Greens still led by Jeremy Corbyn.
While I accept the point that nature abhors a vacuum and all that, most senior figures are so committed to a party brand even when it makes no sense, that I struggle to see while the opponent party would split even if one of the parties did - Chuka Umunna for instance would be pilloried by half his own supporters at least if he said 'I have more in common with a former Tory' and the same applies for plenty of Tories, I just don't see any party that is not collapsing in support splitting. Even when many feared Labour was on course for a total shellacking, there was no real suggestion they would split, not credibly.
It would take a Macron style new party of the centre most probably which was durable unlike the SDP.
Andss="Quote" rel="Monksfield">What a shambles. This is what results from running a 21C country by 18C procedure.
The way the HoC operates needs total reform, much less adversarial yah boo and much more grown up respect.
And how do we get that? It's not as though the public does not reward adversarial yah boo. In fact they prefer it when parties vilify their opponents.
A primary system would be good, an end to FPTP would also help. Too many folk with jobs for life in safe seats.
I'm not opposed to either of those things being implemented, although frankly I don't think it would change the culture of our politics all that much, I just think it would be a fairer system.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
Meanwhile Brexit spirals out of control, damaging everything in its path. We had dinner with a friend of my wife earlier - she is involved in recruitment of nurses and said that since it is now almost impossible to get recruits from EU countries hospitals are recruiting from India and the Philippines instead. The position is so desperate that the requirement for candidates to hold IELTS certificates (to prove fluency in English) is being ignored and nurses are being recruited without formal proof of their language ability. Just another way in which Brexit is impacting on the NHS which is not quite the same as we were promised at the referendum.
@Peston: Theresa May and the whips are presumably utterly confident of the credibility of the allegations against Elphicke - because Tory MPs will be furious with them if they jumped gun
Coming after the old Chief Whip appointed himself Defence Secretary, this could be bad...
Not really sure of Peston's reasoning. Tory MPs would also have been furious if Elphicke was not suspended after allegations emerged, and then the press was full of 'Tories covered up allegations' stories like the ones thrown at Corbyn that he knew about Hopkins allegations and did nothing. The allegations are apparently serious, so needed a reaction, but that doesn't mean they are confident they are credible I'd have thought, just that they cannot be seen to ignore it, so call in the fuzz.
Seems like No.10 would be condemned no matter what they did - tipping the press first seems the only thing TOry MPs can be legitimately mad about.
And Esther is deputy chief whip - she will be aware of the circumstances and no doubt endorsed the action
Taking all that at face value, given we don't know the facts, informing the press before the bloke himself is a pretty shitty thing to do and indicative of an organisation that is on a downward spiral.
Hard to understand why they would not have the courtesy to inform him.
Flight risk?
I doubt it's for the party to make that judgement!
No but he could have got on TV before they publicly suspended him and fought back from the high ground.
@Peston: Theresa May and the whips are presumably utterly confident of the credibility of the allegations against Elphicke - because Tory MPs will be furious with them if they jumped gun
Coming after the old Chief Whip appointed himself Defence Secretary, this could be bad...
Not really sure of Peston's reasoning. Tory MPs would also have been furious if Elphicke was not suspended after allegations emerged, and then the press was full of 'Tories covered up allegations' stories like the ones thrown at Corbyn that he knew about Hopkins allegations and did nothing. The allegations are apparently serious, so needed a reaction, but that doesn't mean they are confident they are credible I'd have thought, just that they cannot be seen to ignore it, so call in the fuzz.
Seems like No.10 would be condemned no matter what they did - tipping the press first seems the only thing TOry MPs can be legitimately mad about.
And Esther is deputy chief whip - she will be aware of the circumstances and no doubt endorsed the action
Taking all that at face value, given we don't know the facts, informing the press before the bloke himself is a pretty shitty thing to do and indicative of an organisation that is on a downward spiral.
Hard to understand why they would not have the courtesy to inform him.
Flight risk?
I doubt it's for the party to make that judgement!
Agreed only a request normally from the police to a judge , when considering bail conditions, such as removal of passport.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
Meanwhile Brexit spirals out of control, damaging everything in its path. We had dinner with a friend of my wife earlier - she is involved in recruitment of nurses and said that since it is now almost impossible to get recruits from EU countries hospitals are recruiting from India and the Philippines instead. The position is so desperate that the requirement for candidates to hold IELTS certificates (to prove fluency in English) is being ignored and nurses are being recruited without formal proof of their language ability. Just another way in which Brexit is impacting on the NHS which is not quite the same as we were promised at the referendum.
English is very widely spoken in the Philippines - it was a US protectorate after all. In my experience Of NHS hospitals - and via elderly relatives I have seen plenty over recent years - they are generally amongst the best nurses of all (pleasant and caring) and none has had any issue communicating in English or being understood either.
Cruise ships are largely staffed with Philippine crew who speak excellent English
Phillipinos are one of Englands fastest growing communities:
Second only to India for naturalisations (at pre Brexit figures) they integrate very well as a general rule. Some of our Phillipino Nurses have just opened a new Philipino takeaway on Narborough rd, reputedly the country's most diverse street.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
Meanwhile Brexit spirals out of control, damaging everything in its path. We had dinner with a friend of my wife earlier - she is involved in recruitment of nurses and said that since it is now almost impossible to get recruits from EU countries hospitals are recruiting from India and the Philippines instead. The position is so desperate that the requirement for candidates to hold IELTS certificates (to prove fluency in English) is being ignored and nurses are being recruited without formal proof of their language ability. Just another way in which Brexit is impacting on the NHS which is not quite the same as we were promised at the referendum.
Of course Hunt would tell you he's employing more and more nurses. He's not, it's another lie. There are fewer nurses employed in the NHS than there were 12 months ago.
Hunt is bringing in large numbers of nursing associates who will be trained and ready to enter the NHS with NMC registration by 2019 as well as expanding training places for nurses.
If these allegations have any veracity , persons could be put on the sex offenders register.As even a caution by the police could ensue with the requirement to register.
The Conservative Party is just like a sick dog that has to be put down. We can't be governed by people who hate each other so much that they can't work with each other.
Meanwhile Brexit spirals out of control, damaging everything in its path. We had dinner with a friend of my wife earlier - she is involved in recruitment of nurses and said that since it is now almost impossible to get recruits from EU countries hospitals are recruiting from India and the Philippines instead. The position is so desperate that the requirement for candidates to hold IELTS certificates (to prove fluency in English) is being ignored and nurses are being recruited without formal proof of their language ability. Just another way in which Brexit is impacting on the NHS which is not quite the same as we were promised at the referendum.
English is very widely spoken in the Philippines - it was a US protectorate after all. In my experience Of NHS hospitals - and via elderly relatives I have seen plenty over recent years - they are generally amongst the best nurses of all (pleasant and caring) and none has had any issue communicating in English or being understood either.
Cruise ships are largely staffed with Philippine crew who speak excellent English
Phillipinos are one of Englands fastest growing communities:
Second only to India for naturalisations (at pre Brexit figures) they integrate very well as a general rule. Some of our Phillipino Nurses have just opened a new Philipino takeaway on Narborough rd, reputedly the country's most diverse street.
The few Phillipinos I have met have been lovely people as have most immigrants tbh. But how ridiculous it is that the immigration concerns that led to the Brexit are also causing... more immigration!
Comments
Actually, bollocks, I could. She's the second-worst Tory leader in my lifetime, though oddly, she's still the best party leader on offer today (hence the 40% polling for the Cons).
There's a feeling that Brexit will do to the Tory party what WWI did to the Liberals.
If there has been a serious and reasonably credible (i.e. one which can't be dismissed out of hand) allegation, it's a fairly normal action.
I warned ye all that she was a pound shop Gordon Brown.
Like we used to call non-terrorist villains in NI - ordinary decent criminals..
Coming after the old Chief Whip appointed himself Defence Secretary, this could be bad...
Politics, like nature, abhors a vacuum, something will replace the Tory party if it fails.
None of the parties are full of sex abusers and there are many upstanding MP's in all parties who must be horrified and who have always treated women with the upmost of respect
Only possible if the Tories reverse Brexit or refuse to end free movement in order to stay in the single market.
Seems like No.10 would be condemned no matter what they did - tipping the press first seems the only thing TOry MPs can be legitimately mad about.
Confirm/Cancel
In further Brexit news:
https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/status/926525725242527746
Time for a change.....but not a simple left right flip flop. Time to turn politics upside down....a la Macron!
Lets see what and if any charges are forthcoming
The way the HoC operates needs total reform, much less adversarial yah boo and much more grown up respect.
Say the Tories were united and happy right now, but then this same scandal erupted. I still think they'd tell the press first in this situation, shitty as it is.
And the complete overhaul of the HOL
I know that in Leicester we have employed nurses awaiting language tests or other documentation as Health Care Assistants.
I'm not opposed to either of those things being implemented, although frankly I don't think it would change the culture of our politics all that much, I just think it would be a fairer system.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipinos_in_the_United_Kingdom
Second only to India for naturalisations (at pre Brexit figures) they integrate very well as a general rule. Some of our Phillipino Nurses have just opened a new Philipino takeaway on Narborough rd, reputedly the country's most diverse street.