politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The next PM could be someone who is opposed to women who’ve be
Comments
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Oh, wait....Rexel56 said:
Well, perhaps we should enact a law making Gibraltar a part of the United Kingdom in perpetuity and see just how deeply principled the Spanish government’s position is.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.
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With 43% turning out, its highly unlikely that the majority boycotted. An 86% turnout would be unheard of, and that's not taking into account those who were excluded from voting by the violence of the Spanish state.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.0 -
Speculation, based on the idea that this is the weekend when it all comes tumbling out thanks to Weinstein and #metoo effect. Difficult to believe there wont be at least one senior minister involved.RobD said:
Speculation? Or we expect dirt on one?rottenborough said:
No doubt something like that will happen after the furore that is likely to follow Sunday's papers.RobD said:
Sounds like there is a case for having Parliament deal with HR stuff.rottenborough said:Weinstein effect about to hit:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/pervert-politicians-why-weinstein-effect-could-hit-westminster-hardest
Cabinet minister to go?
(No naming names, obviously).0 -
Well the weekend looks like it is going to be fun.
Catalonia and Westminster sex harassment stories look like they will dominate0 -
Spain have pushed this to the limit now. They still hold most the cards but everything depends on how the people of Catalonia act, particularly those in public positions. It's not going to be easy for them.0
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'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.0 -
I don't dispute that but as you say the Catalans are divided and the rest of Spain have rights too. The overwhelming view seems to be one of 'better together' to coin a phrase.Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.0 -
I think it may be more accurate to say that Catalonia has pushed it to the limit. rather like Brexit it seems to me to be an act of self-harm.DavidL said:Spain have pushed this to the limit now. They still hold most the cards but everything depends on how the people of Catalonia act, particularly those in public positions. It's not going to be easy for them.
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And then the answer is a proper referendum agreed by Spain. If you are correct, and you know much more than I do, than the matter would be resolved sensibly and more importantly, democratically.felix said:
I don't dispute that but as you say the Catalans are divided and the rest of Spain have rights too. The overwhelming view seems to be one of 'better together' to coin a phrase.Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.
As I returned from the cruise port to the airport in Barcelona last Saturday I passed a fire station with a large banner 'Democracia'. A vote is the essence of democracy0 -
If it runs on too long, it'll be The State of Catalepsy.MarqueeMark said:
The Spanish army are going to run up some overtime.TGOHF said:Spraxit ? Cataloxit ?
What we calling this ?
A Catatonic for the Troops?0 -
F1: practice is just about underway.0
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Then they should allow the Catalans to have a free vote unconstrained by police brutality and threats and se what the Catalan people really want. If they wish to Remain part of Spain then that will be the result of the referendum.felix said:
I don't dispute that but as you say the Catalans are divided and the rest of Spain have rights too. The overwhelming view seems to be one of 'better together' to coin a phrase.Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.
And you are right there are similarities to Brexit. An elite with vested interests in the status quo are trying to stop people having their say for fear they might be rejected. That is no basis for democracy.0 -
Its hard to judge from a distance but the Catalans were the ones who seemed to be looking for compromise and negotiations every step of the way. They were given no options other than give in or declare independence. That's what they have done now. It is unclear where we go next. Will the Mossos d'Esquadra take their instructions from Barca or Spain? Will they seek to stop the Guarda Civil arresting leaders etc? Some violence looks inevitable. We can only hope it is minor.felix said:
I think it may be more accurate to say that Catalonia has pushed it to the limit. rather like Brexit it seems to me to be an act of self-harm.DavidL said:Spain have pushed this to the limit now. They still hold most the cards but everything depends on how the people of Catalonia act, particularly those in public positions. It's not going to be easy for them.
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Pathetic response from ultra remainersScott_P said:0 -
Too many countries - with Spain being one of them - have only played lip service to democracy.AndyJS said:Extraordinary to see western democracy eating itself in Spain at the moment.
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Indeed, although that they came not a million miles away from a majority of voters despite people being beaten in the street somewhat undermined the valid arguments against the turnout figure (and indeed the process of the vote itself). Law is definitely on the Madrid side, but if they couldn’t physically stop the vote, it might have been better to let it happen peacefully and jus point to flaws in the process and the boycott by non-indy voters. As it is, the Catalan separatists have a partial excuse for the lower turnout.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.
I thought that is what the Treaty of Utrecht did, legally giving it to us in perpetuity. I’d always assumed that other than some disputes over where the line was, and archaic provisions (like not allowing Jews onto the Rock!) the spanishposition on Gibraltar was that politically they want it, but that they don’t have a legal claim, as opposed to the Falklands where Argentina maintains they have a legal claim.Rexel56 said:
Well, perhaps we should enact a law making Gibraltar a part of the United Kingdom in perpetuity and see just how deeply principled the Spanish government’s position is.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.0 -
Jared O’Mara to look like small fry soon then.rottenborough said:Weinstein effect about to hit:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/pervert-politicians-why-weinstein-effect-could-hit-westminster-hardest
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What’s the Spanish for ‘it takes two to tango’?felix said:
I think it may be more accurate to say that Catalonia has pushed it to the limit. rather like Brexit it seems to me to be an act of self-harm.DavidL said:Spain have pushed this to the limit now. They still hold most the cards but everything depends on how the people of Catalonia act, particularly those in public positions. It's not going to be easy for them.
The Catalans make the initial provocation for the immediate crisis with the referendum, but the response of Madrid up to and from them do appear to have contributed. Indeed, the Catalan leaders have seemed somewhat reluctant to take this next step.
But as others have noted what in effect can they do? Unless there’s some overwhelming mass civil disobedence when Madrid takes direct control, which doesn’t seem to be predicted, what do they think is going to happen? They were going to be dissolved anyway, and merely organising a referendum which wasn’t stated to lead to a UDI was enough to convict the last Catalan president, so most of the leaders were to be banned from public office as well I expect, so I assume they felt the ram had already touched the wall.0 -
"Pervert politicians" would be a fantastic name for an indie band.rottenborough said:Weinstein effect about to hit:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/pervert-politicians-why-weinstein-effect-could-hit-westminster-hardest0 -
The rest of the UK would have had no rights if the Scots had decided to go their own way with a legitimate Referendum, sanctioned by Westminster. What are the rights that Spain have too?felix said:
I don't dispute that but as you say the Catalans are divided and the rest of Spain have rights too. The overwhelming view seems to be one of 'better together' to coin a phrase.Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.0 -
The biggest surprise of all time would be if it included Theresa May.....rottenborough said:Weinstein effect about to hit:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/pervert-politicians-why-weinstein-effect-could-hit-westminster-hardest
She may yet be Last Man Standing!0 -
Perhaps the good Lady just wasn’t up to it ?0 -
Yes and this is the version of "democracy" that remainers were happy to sign up to.Richard_Tyndall said:
Then they should allow the Catalans to have a free vote unconstrained by police brutality and threats and se what the Catalan people really want. If they wish to Remain part of Spain then that will be the result of the referendum.felix said:
I don't dispute that but as you say the Catalans are divided and the rest of Spain have rights too. The overwhelming view seems to be one of 'better together' to coin a phrase.Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.
And you are right there are similarities to Brexit. An elite with vested interests in the status quo are trying to stop people having their say for fear they might be rejected. That is no basis for democracy.
Once the EU police and army have been created it would be British pensioners that would be beaten up trying to vote to leave.0 -
If Theresa May were outed as a pervert politician, her ratings would soar.MarqueeMark said:
The biggest surprise of all time would be if it included Theresa May.....rottenborough said:Weinstein effect about to hit:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/pervert-politicians-why-weinstein-effect-could-hit-westminster-hardest
She may yet be Last Man Standing!0 -
Yes and Puidgemont has ruled out democratic elections no doubt because everyone expects his party would lose heavily.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And then the answer is a proper referendum agreed by Spain. If you are correct, and you know much more than I do, than the matter would be resolved sensibly and more importantly, democratically.felix said:
I don't dispute that but as you say the Catalans are divided and the rest of Spain have rights too. The overwhelming view seems to be one of 'better together' to coin a phrase.Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.
As I returned from the cruise port to the airport in Barcelona last Saturday I passed a fire station with a large banner 'Democracia'. A vote is the essence of democracy0 -
And the Cornish?Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.0 -
Wonder if these two, whom Guido fingered several years ago, are involved. (Embarrassing for Theresa if so.)rottenborough said:
Speculation, based on the idea that this is the weekend when it all comes tumbling out thanks to Weinstein and #metoo effect. Difficult to believe there wont be at least one senior minister involved.RobD said:
Speculation? Or we expect dirt on one?rottenborough said:
No doubt something like that will happen after the furore that is likely to follow Sunday's papers.RobD said:
Sounds like there is a case for having Parliament deal with HR stuff.rottenborough said:Weinstein effect about to hit:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/pervert-politicians-why-weinstein-effect-could-hit-westminster-hardest
Cabinet minister to go?
(No naming names, obviously).
https://order-order.com/tag/shaggable/0 -
Is May waiting until after this weekend to resign so that the field of her potential successors has narrowed?0
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ahemStark_Dawning said:
Wonder if these two, whom Guido fingered several years ago, are involved. (Embarrassing for Theresa if so.)rottenborough said:
Speculation, based on the idea that this is the weekend when it all comes tumbling out thanks to Weinstein and #metoo effect. Difficult to believe there wont be at least one senior minister involved.RobD said:
Speculation? Or we expect dirt on one?rottenborough said:
No doubt something like that will happen after the furore that is likely to follow Sunday's papers.RobD said:
Sounds like there is a case for having Parliament deal with HR stuff.rottenborough said:Weinstein effect about to hit:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/pervert-politicians-why-weinstein-effect-could-hit-westminster-hardest
Cabinet minister to go?
(No naming names, obviously).
https://order-order.com/tag/shaggable/0 -
The Spanish constitution enshrines their rights. Not the same as the UK arrangement. However, if the Catalans had acted legally - the'd eventually have been able to secede. They chose not to - perhaps motivated by polling which suggests there is not a majority for full independence.MarqueeMark said:
The rest of the UK would have had no rights if the Scots had decided to go their own way with a legitimate Referendum, sanctioned by Westminster. What are the rights that Spain have too?felix said:
I don't dispute that but as you say the Catalans are divided and the rest of Spain have rights too. The overwhelming view seems to be one of 'better together' to coin a phrase.Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.0 -
For those that believe there are going to be sensational revelations about senior Conservatives this weekend (NB this does not include me), backing senior Conservative women politicians for next leader would seem marked.Verulamius said:Is May waiting until after this weekend to resign so that the field of her potential successors has narrowed?
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Think it is best to wait and not speculateStark_Dawning said:
Wonder if these two, whom Guido fingered several years ago, are involved. (Embarrassing for Theresa if so.)rottenborough said:
Speculation, based on the idea that this is the weekend when it all comes tumbling out thanks to Weinstein and #metoo effect. Difficult to believe there wont be at least one senior minister involved.RobD said:
Speculation? Or we expect dirt on one?rottenborough said:
No doubt something like that will happen after the furore that is likely to follow Sunday's papers.RobD said:
Sounds like there is a case for having Parliament deal with HR stuff.rottenborough said:Weinstein effect about to hit:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/pervert-politicians-why-weinstein-effect-could-hit-westminster-hardest
Cabinet minister to go?
(No naming names, obviously).
https://order-order.com/tag/shaggable/0 -
TSE would just point out her lying about "running through a cornfield" being her greatest act of naughtiness makes her unfit to be PM.....AlastairMeeks said:
If Theresa May were outed as a pervert politician, her ratings would soar.MarqueeMark said:
The biggest surprise of all time would be if it included Theresa May.....rottenborough said:Weinstein effect about to hit:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/pervert-politicians-why-weinstein-effect-could-hit-westminster-hardest
She may yet be Last Man Standing!0 -
Confessions of a wheat field.
More than the usual chaff.0 -
Why would she be bothered about her successorsVerulamius said:Is May waiting until after this weekend to resign so that the field of her potential successors has narrowed?
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Mr. Jonathan, the revelations are barley believable!0
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That's a bit corny.Jonathan said:Confessions of a wheat field.
More than the usual chaff.0 -
Has anyone checked "cornfield running" on Urban Dictionary?MarqueeMark said:
TSE would just point out her lying about "running through a cornfield" being her greatest act of naughtiness makes her unfit to be PM.....AlastairMeeks said:
If Theresa May were outed as a pervert politician, her ratings would soar.MarqueeMark said:
The biggest surprise of all time would be if it included Theresa May.....rottenborough said:Weinstein effect about to hit:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/pervert-politicians-why-weinstein-effect-could-hit-westminster-hardest
She may yet be Last Man Standing!0 -
Ever since Weinstein the world has been gorging itself in a 'male witch-hunt' of epic proportions. As DavidL noted earlier about Spain and Catalonia 'it takes two to ...'AlastairMeeks said:
For those that believe there are going to be sensational revelations about senior Conservatives this weekend (NB this does not include me), backing senior Conservative women politicians for next leader would seem marked.Verulamius said:Is May waiting until after this weekend to resign so that the field of her potential successors has narrowed?
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Another silly remark by JRM
Jacob Rees-Mogg, an outspoken Conservative MP, sits firmly within the Brexit camp, and recently described the consequences of a no-deal exit scenario as being exaggerated “much like the millennium bug.” The complicated realities of Brexit aside, this remark has annoyed developers d’un certain age who remember the Y2K panic, and dedicated years of their lives to ensuring the worst predictions never came to pass.
https://thenextweb.com/dd/2017/10/26/developers-wish-people-remember-big-deal-y2k-bug/0 -
While we debate the ridiculous Mogg, the Catalans declared independence...0
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Developers with the relevant programming skills utterly coined it iirc.logical_song said:Another silly remark by JRM
Jacob Rees-Mogg, an outspoken Conservative MP, sits firmly within the Brexit camp, and recently described the consequences of a no-deal exit scenario as being exaggerated “much like the millennium bug.” The complicated realities of Brexit aside, this remark has annoyed developers d’un certain age who remember the Y2K panic, and dedicated years of their lives to ensuring the worst predictions never came to pass.
https://thenextweb.com/dd/2017/10/26/developers-wish-people-remember-big-deal-y2k-bug/0 -
Isn’t that the premise of the Christmas episode of Yes Minister/Prime Minister?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Why would she be bothered about her successorsVerulamius said:Is May waiting until after this weekend to resign so that the field of her potential successors has narrowed?
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Aside from the religious stuff, another concern I have (and I can see and once indeed did list several reasons why he is appealing and wouldn't be the worst choice out there) is in fact Brexit. And it's related to the religion bit. He is a smart bloke, made a ton of money in the Far East and global markets, and is alive to the issues facing the UK today.logical_song said:Another silly remark by JRM
Jacob Rees-Mogg, an outspoken Conservative MP, sits firmly within the Brexit camp, and recently described the consequences of a no-deal exit scenario as being exaggerated “much like the millennium bug.” The complicated realities of Brexit aside, this remark has annoyed developers d’un certain age who remember the Y2K panic, and dedicated years of their lives to ensuring the worst predictions never came to pass.
https://thenextweb.com/dd/2017/10/26/developers-wish-people-remember-big-deal-y2k-bug/
He should be perfectly aware both of how much damage Brexit will do to the economy, and the chimera that is "reclaiming sovereignty" (we never lost it). His Brexit belief is just that, a belief that transcends logic or interrogation, and just is.
And for that reason, I'm out.0 -
Are you deploying a straw man?Jonathan said:Confessions of a wheat field.
More than the usual chaff.
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Like Trump, Mogg would be a mildly amusing arse if he weren't anywhere near political power.logical_song said:Another silly remark by JRM
Jacob Rees-Mogg, an outspoken Conservative MP, sits firmly within the Brexit camp, and recently described the consequences of a no-deal exit scenario as being exaggerated “much like the millennium bug.” The complicated realities of Brexit aside, this remark has annoyed developers d’un certain age who remember the Y2K panic, and dedicated years of their lives to ensuring the worst predictions never came to pass.
https://thenextweb.com/dd/2017/10/26/developers-wish-people-remember-big-deal-y2k-bug/
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I'm scared to check anything on Urban Dictionary, especially at work...AlastairMeeks said:
Has anyone checked "cornfield running" on Urban Dictionary?MarqueeMark said:
TSE would just point out her lying about "running through a cornfield" being her greatest act of naughtiness makes her unfit to be PM.....AlastairMeeks said:
If Theresa May were outed as a pervert politician, her ratings would soar.MarqueeMark said:
The biggest surprise of all time would be if it included Theresa May.....rottenborough said:Weinstein effect about to hit:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/pervert-politicians-why-weinstein-effect-could-hit-westminster-hardest
She may yet be Last Man Standing!0 -
The referendum apparently was illegal under the Catalan as well as the Spanish Constitution. Changes to the status of Catalonia require a two thirds majority in parliament.Richard_Tyndall said:'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.
In general, I think states should allow a clearly expressed desire to secede, but they don't have to make it easy.
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I seem to remember the Millennium Bug was a very anglo-centric panic. France and Italy didn't really bother with it in the same way and didn't suffer much for it.logical_song said:Another silly remark by JRM
Jacob Rees-Mogg, an outspoken Conservative MP, sits firmly within the Brexit camp, and recently described the consequences of a no-deal exit scenario as being exaggerated “much like the millennium bug.” The complicated realities of Brexit aside, this remark has annoyed developers d’un certain age who remember the Y2K panic, and dedicated years of their lives to ensuring the worst predictions never came to pass.
https://thenextweb.com/dd/2017/10/26/developers-wish-people-remember-big-deal-y2k-bug/0 -
While Jacob has his idiosyncrasies he is nowhere near as crazy as TrumpNigelb said:
Like Trump, Mogg would be a mildly amusing arse if he weren't anywhere near political power.logical_song said:Another silly remark by JRM
Jacob Rees-Mogg, an outspoken Conservative MP, sits firmly within the Brexit camp, and recently described the consequences of a no-deal exit scenario as being exaggerated “much like the millennium bug.” The complicated realities of Brexit aside, this remark has annoyed developers d’un certain age who remember the Y2K panic, and dedicated years of their lives to ensuring the worst predictions never came to pass.
https://thenextweb.com/dd/2017/10/26/developers-wish-people-remember-big-deal-y2k-bug/0 -
F1: Gasly likely to have a penalty for more control electronics, and maybe other stuff too.0
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Dribe ?AlastairMeeks said:
Has anyone checked "cornfield running" on Urban Dictionary?MarqueeMark said:
TSE would just point out her lying about "running through a cornfield" being her greatest act of naughtiness makes her unfit to be PM.....AlastairMeeks said:
If Theresa May were outed as a pervert politician, her ratings would soar.MarqueeMark said:
The biggest surprise of all time would be if it included Theresa May.....rottenborough said:Weinstein effect about to hit:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/pervert-politicians-why-weinstein-effect-could-hit-westminster-hardest
She may yet be Last Man Standing!0 -
One of the Catalonian supporters just asked a Sky reporter to see his passport as he is in a new Republic. So funny if it was not serious0
-
Plenty of time for them to be discussed - between 11.00 pm and 8.00 am.....Saturdays and Sundays too.Scott_P said:0 -
And would still be a mildly amusing arse were he nowhere near political power.Big_G_NorthWales said:
While Jacob has his idiosyncrasies he is nowhere near as crazy as TrumpNigelb said:
Like Trump, Mogg would be a mildly amusing arse if he weren't anywhere near political power.logical_song said:Another silly remark by JRM
Jacob Rees-Mogg, an outspoken Conservative MP, sits firmly within the Brexit camp, and recently described the consequences of a no-deal exit scenario as being exaggerated “much like the millennium bug.” The complicated realities of Brexit aside, this remark has annoyed developers d’un certain age who remember the Y2K panic, and dedicated years of their lives to ensuring the worst predictions never came to pass.
https://thenextweb.com/dd/2017/10/26/developers-wish-people-remember-big-deal-y2k-bug/0 -
-
Who is Leanne Wood (and I live in Wales)Scott_P said:0 -
Abstaining isn't boycotting though.YellowSubmarine said:
Easy. If you think declaring independence is ultra vires and unconstitutional boycotting the vote is the logical thing to do. Taking part legitimises it.kle4 said:BBC says 10 MPs remained to vote against Catalan Independence and 2 abstentions. How do you abstain on an issue of such importance?
(A shout out to Captain Boycott, whole alongside Colonel Shrapnel, is one of the many unremembered British military officers)0 -
It comes from the Crown and from God!Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.
I don't find that remarkable - few will want to get involved in this powder keg.Scott_P said:0 -
Er no. There was no legal route for the Catalans to secede under the Spanish Constitution. Any demands for a legal route are continually rebuffed by the Constitutional Court by reference to Article 2 of the Constitution:felix said:
The Spanish constitution enshrines their rights. Not the same as the UK arrangement. However, if the Catalans had acted legally - the'd eventually have been able to secede. They chose not to - perhaps motivated by polling which suggests there is not a majority for full independence.MarqueeMark said:
The rest of the UK would have had no rights if the Scots had decided to go their own way with a legitimate Referendum, sanctioned by Westminster. What are the rights that Spain have too?felix said:
I don't dispute that but as you say the Catalans are divided and the rest of Spain have rights too. The overwhelming view seems to be one of 'better together' to coin a phrase.Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.
"The Constitution is based on the indissoluble unity of the Spanish Nation, the common and indivisible homeland of all Spaniards."
And the PP had already blocked any attempts by the Spanish Parliament to give more autonomy to Catalonia by appealing to the Constitutional court to strike down laws passed by the Spanish Parliament.
The root of all of this strife is the PP. Their Franco era founders would be proud of them.0 -
Mr. Charles, didn't Shrapnel invent case shot?0
-
Daft comment.CopperSulphate said:
I seem to remember the Millennium Bug was a very anglo-centric panic. France and Italy didn't really bother with it in the same way and didn't suffer much for it.logical_song said:Another silly remark by JRM
Jacob Rees-Mogg, an outspoken Conservative MP, sits firmly within the Brexit camp, and recently described the consequences of a no-deal exit scenario as being exaggerated “much like the millennium bug.” The complicated realities of Brexit aside, this remark has annoyed developers d’un certain age who remember the Y2K panic, and dedicated years of their lives to ensuring the worst predictions never came to pass.
https://thenextweb.com/dd/2017/10/26/developers-wish-people-remember-big-deal-y2k-bug/
Did France or Italy use a different calendar?
It wasn't a panic, because it was planned for months if not years ahead and the work was done methodically and it was fixed.0 -
Why not? The principle is the same. Of course the difference at the moment is that beyond a tiny number, there is no real support for Cornish Independence. But if it developed then they should have that right.TOPPING said:
And the Cornish?Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.0 -
which part of Wales?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Who is Leanne Wood (and I live in Wales)Scott_P said:0 -
Odd. Why would British party leaders comment on an internal Spanish matter?Scott_P said:
Even odder is Leanne Wood's comment: "I congratulate the Catalan people on gaining their independence through peaceful and democratic means." Somewhat premature, to say the least.0 -
He may be seen in retrospect to be the first domino to fall...kle4 said:
Jared O’Mara to look like small fry soon then.rottenborough said:Weinstein effect about to hit:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/pervert-politicians-why-weinstein-effect-could-hit-westminster-hardest0 -
0
-
Quite. There's a good reason for delays in comments sometimes.Richard_Nabavi said:
Odd. Why would British party leaders comment on an internal Spanish matter?Scott_P said:
Even odder is Leanne Wood's comment: "I congratulate the Catalan people on gaining their independence through peaceful and democratic means." Somewhat premature, to say the least.0 -
Leanne Wood calls on the Welsh National Assembly to recognise an independent Catalonia.
https://mobile.twitter.com/LeanneWood/status/9239259289793699860 -
Down to what level would you support independence? County? Town? Pimlico? No. 9 Acacia Avenue?Richard_Tyndall said:
Why not? The principle is the same. Of course the difference at the moment is that beyond a tiny number, there is no real support for Cornish Independence. But if it developed then they should have that right.TOPPING said:
And the Cornish?Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.0 -
Nah, weird religious convictions aside he seems quite an affable chap. Certainly he managed to win over the young SNP MP when she entered Parliament and he is generally regarded as very popular.Nigelb said:
Like Trump, Mogg would be a mildly amusing arse if he weren't anywhere near political power.logical_song said:Another silly remark by JRM
Jacob Rees-Mogg, an outspoken Conservative MP, sits firmly within the Brexit camp, and recently described the consequences of a no-deal exit scenario as being exaggerated “much like the millennium bug.” The complicated realities of Brexit aside, this remark has annoyed developers d’un certain age who remember the Y2K panic, and dedicated years of their lives to ensuring the worst predictions never came to pass.
https://thenextweb.com/dd/2017/10/26/developers-wish-people-remember-big-deal-y2k-bug/
Trump on the other hand is a complete arse who seems to sneer at all around him.0 -
The King to Oxford sent a troop of horseAlastairMeeks said:A very interesting shift of tone from Donald Tusk:
https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/923914819631271936
Because Tories understood no argument but force
To Cambridge he sent a cart of books instead
For Whigs allow no force but argument0 -
Down to the level at which they could be a viable independent country. Obviously Cornwall might be a step too far which is why I don't think they would ever go for it but certainly Scotland is not.TOPPING said:
Down to what level would you support independence? County? Town? Pimlico? No. 9 Acacia Avenue?Richard_Tyndall said:
Why not? The principle is the same. Of course the difference at the moment is that beyond a tiny number, there is no real support for Cornish Independence. But if it developed then they should have that right.TOPPING said:
And the Cornish?Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.
You see the difference between you and me is I trust the good sense of the people whereas time and again it appears that you do not.0 -
F1: very early, but the top few are setting times on different tyres. Verstappen competitive on the soft against others on supersoft.
That said, plenty of scope for engine and fuel sandbagging.0 -
Canvey Island?TOPPING said:
Down to what level would you support independence? County? Town? Pimlico? No. 9 Acacia Avenue?Richard_Tyndall said:
Why not? The principle is the same. Of course the difference at the moment is that beyond a tiny number, there is no real support for Cornish Independence. But if it developed then they should have that right.TOPPING said:
And the Cornish?Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-416910030 -
That sort of pun is bread and butter to me. I'm all ears...Carolus_Rex said:
That's a bit corny.Jonathan said:Confessions of a wheat field.
More than the usual chaff.0 -
There are more people in Cornwall than the Vatican City and Luxembourg, Brunei and Antigua.Richard_Tyndall said:
Down to the level at which they could be a viable independent country. Obviously Cornwall might be a step too far which is why I don't think they would ever go for it but certainly Scotland is not.TOPPING said:
Down to what level would you support independence? County? Town? Pimlico? No. 9 Acacia Avenue?Richard_Tyndall said:
Why not? The principle is the same. Of course the difference at the moment is that beyond a tiny number, there is no real support for Cornish Independence. But if it developed then they should have that right.TOPPING said:
And the Cornish?Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.
You see the difference between you and me is I trust the good sense of the people whereas time and again it appears that you do not.0 -
They only want independence from their local council. Basically they want their own local council so they are not continually outvoted by the rest of the area. Seems a very reasonable argument to me.HYUFD said:
Canvey Island?TOPPING said:
Down to what level would you support independence? County? Town? Pimlico? No. 9 Acacia Avenue?Richard_Tyndall said:
Why not? The principle is the same. Of course the difference at the moment is that beyond a tiny number, there is no real support for Cornish Independence. But if it developed then they should have that right.TOPPING said:
And the Cornish?Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-416910030 -
North and I am being sarcasticTOPPING said:
which part of Wales?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Who is Leanne Wood (and I live in Wales)Scott_P said:0 -
He is quite friendly with Jess Phillips too, though politically miles apart.Richard_Tyndall said:
Nah, weird religious convictions aside he seems quite an affable chap. Certainly he managed to win over the young SNP MP when she entered Parliament and he is generally regarded as very popular.Nigelb said:
Like Trump, Mogg would be a mildly amusing arse if he weren't anywhere near political power.logical_song said:Another silly remark by JRM
Jacob Rees-Mogg, an outspoken Conservative MP, sits firmly within the Brexit camp, and recently described the consequences of a no-deal exit scenario as being exaggerated “much like the millennium bug.” The complicated realities of Brexit aside, this remark has annoyed developers d’un certain age who remember the Y2K panic, and dedicated years of their lives to ensuring the worst predictions never came to pass.
https://thenextweb.com/dd/2017/10/26/developers-wish-people-remember-big-deal-y2k-bug/
Trump on the other hand is a complete arse who seems to sneer at all around him.0 -
No actually, the difference is that you have ideals that are, well idealistic and thereforeRichard_Tyndall said:
Down to the level at which they could be a viable independent country. Obviously Cornwall might be a step too far which is why I don't think they would ever go for it but certainly Scotland is not.TOPPING said:
Down to what level would you support independence? County? Town? Pimlico? No. 9 Acacia Avenue?Richard_Tyndall said:
Why not? The principle is the same. Of course the difference at the moment is that beyond a tiny number, there is no real support for Cornish Independence. But if it developed then they should have that right.TOPPING said:
And the Cornish?Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.
You see the difference between you and me is I trust the good sense of the people whereas time and again it appears that you do not.bonkersunrealisable when tested in real life, whereas I am pragmatic.
Look at your views on independence. In theory, the ideal is great: let everyone be independent. But in practice, as you at least concede, it is not practical or viable in many cases. You don't distinguish between a fantasy wouldn't it be nice (eg. Brexit/independence for Hough on the Hill) and reality.
It's not a bad trait to have, sullied when you berate people for not buying into your fantasies, but it is, sadly, just that - a fantasy.0 -
Very true. Which is why when Topping asked about Cornwall I said yes they should have that right. I just don't think they would go for it not least as I believe they are the poorest county in England?HYUFD said:
There are more people in Cornwall than the Vatican City and LuxembourgRichard_Tyndall said:
Down to the level at which they could be a viable independent country. Obviously Cornwall might be a step too far which is why I don't think they would ever go for it but certainly Scotland is not.TOPPING said:
Down to what level would you support independence? County? Town? Pimlico? No. 9 Acacia Avenue?Richard_Tyndall said:
Why not? The principle is the same. Of course the difference at the moment is that beyond a tiny number, there is no real support for Cornish Independence. But if it developed then they should have that right.TOPPING said:
And the Cornish?Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.
You see the difference between you and me is I trust the good sense of the people whereas time and again it appears that you do not.0 -
By the way, for anyone who wants to read the Spanish Constitution there is a version in English here:
http://www.congreso.es/portal/page/portal/Congreso/Congreso/Hist_Normas/Norm/const_espa_texto_ingles_0.pdf0 -
For starters anyway.Richard_Tyndall said:
They only want independence from their local council. Basically they want their own local council so they are not continually outvoted by the rest of the area. Seems a very reasonable argument to me.HYUFD said:
Canvey Island?TOPPING said:
Down to what level would you support independence? County? Town? Pimlico? No. 9 Acacia Avenue?Richard_Tyndall said:
Why not? The principle is the same. Of course the difference at the moment is that beyond a tiny number, there is no real support for Cornish Independence. But if it developed then they should have that right.TOPPING said:
And the Cornish?Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-416910030 -
Ah, but the accent. The trick is to hear the music and not the words.Richard_Nabavi said:
Odd. Why would British party leaders comment on an internal Spanish matter?Scott_P said:
Even odder is Leanne Wood's comment: "I congratulate the Catalan people on gaining their independence through peaceful and democratic means." Somewhat premature, to say the least.0 -
Big_G_NorthWales said:
North and I am being sarcasticTOPPING said:
which part of Wales?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Who is Leanne Wood (and I live in Wales)Scott_P said:
0 -
perhaps not a good choice of verb given the circumstancesStark_Dawning said:
Wonder if these two, whom Guido fingered several years ago, are involved. (Embarrassing for Theresa if so.)rottenborough said:
Speculation, based on the idea that this is the weekend when it all comes tumbling out thanks to Weinstein and #metoo effect. Difficult to believe there wont be at least one senior minister involved.RobD said:
Speculation? Or we expect dirt on one?rottenborough said:
No doubt something like that will happen after the furore that is likely to follow Sunday's papers.RobD said:
Sounds like there is a case for having Parliament deal with HR stuff.rottenborough said:Weinstein effect about to hit:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/pervert-politicians-why-weinstein-effect-could-hit-westminster-hardest
Cabinet minister to go?
(No naming names, obviously).
https://order-order.com/tag/shaggable/0 -
Step 1 - Wikipedia should probably lock down the catalonia page, as I bet there will be many competiting edits0
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Vandoorne also with a new engine...Morris_Dancer said:F1: Gasly likely to have a penalty for more control electronics, and maybe other stuff too.
...and it’s broken already, lasted half an hour. Second new engine going in now, so he’s at least 50 places in penalties now.0 -
Canister shot I thought - is that different?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Charles, didn't Shrapnel invent case shot?
0 -
No I do not say 'let everyone be independent'. I say let everyone have the right to choose and trust them to make the right choice. Hence my comments about Cornwall.TOPPING said:No actually, the difference is that you have ideals that are, well idealistic and therefore
bonkersunrealisable when tested in real life, whereas I am pragmatic.
Look at your views on independence. In theory, the ideal is great: let everyone be independent. But in practice, as you at least concede, it is not practical or viable in many cases. You don't distinguish between a fantasy wouldn't it be nice (eg. Brexit/independence for Hough on the Hill) and reality.
It's not a bad trait to have, sullied when you berate people for not buying into your fantasies, but it is, sadly, just that - a fantasy.
That is a fundamental difference. It is not a fantasy to give people the right to choose their own future and trust them to understand what is best for them and their neighbours.
By the way, how closely are you stalking me? Hough on the Hill is the next village over from where I live.0 -
I wonder what Nancy Mogg's views on abortion are.0
-
TOPPING said:
No actually, the difference is that you have ideals that are, well idealistic and thereforeRichard_Tyndall said:
Down to the level at which they could be a viable independent country. Obviously Cornwall might be a step too far which is why I don't think they would ever go for it but certainly Scotland is not.TOPPING said:
Down to what level would you support independence? County? Town? Pimlico? No. 9 Acacia Avenue?Richard_Tyndall said:
Why not? The principle is the same. Of course the difference at the moment is that beyond a tiny number, there is no real support for Cornish Independence. But if it developed then they should have that right.TOPPING said:
And the Cornish?Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity. If the Catalans want to be independent (and of course that is very much debatable at the moment) then Spain should allow them to go through the process of deciding whether they will be or not. If the law prevents that then the law needs to change.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.
You see the difference between you and me is I trust the good sense of the people whereas time and again it appears that you do not.bonkersunrealisable when tested in real life, whereas I am pragmatic.
Look at your views on independence. In theory, the ideal is great: let everyone be independent. But in practice, as you at least concede, it is not practical or viable in many cases. You don't distinguish between a fantasy wouldn't it be nice (eg. Brexit/independence for Hough on the Hill) and reality.
It's not a bad trait to have, sullied when you berate people for not buying into your fantasies, but it is, sadly, just that - a fantasy.
I am realistic.
You are a fantasist.
He is being detained under the Mental Health Act...
0 -
He'd be a good Coalition PM perhaps.....foxinsoxuk said:
He is quite friendly with Jess Phillips too, though politically miles apart.Richard_Tyndall said:
Nah, weird religious convictions aside he seems quite an affable chap. Certainly he managed to win over the young SNP MP when she entered Parliament and he is generally regarded as very popular.Nigelb said:
Like Trump, Mogg would be a mildly amusing arse if he weren't anywhere near political power.logical_song said:Another silly remark by JRM
Jacob Rees-Mogg, an outspoken Conservative MP, sits firmly within the Brexit camp, and recently described the consequences of a no-deal exit scenario as being exaggerated “much like the millennium bug.” The complicated realities of Brexit aside, this remark has annoyed developers d’un certain age who remember the Y2K panic, and dedicated years of their lives to ensuring the worst predictions never came to pass.
https://thenextweb.com/dd/2017/10/26/developers-wish-people-remember-big-deal-y2k-bug/
Trump on the other hand is a complete arse who seems to sneer at all around him.
*ducks*0 -
Umm... does his username contain a clue?TOPPING said:
which part of Wales?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Who is Leanne Wood (and I live in Wales)Scott_P said:0 -
This is rather interesting, a way for journalism to develop that stops states or third parties deleting news stories (by using BlockChain):
http://www.niemanlab.org/2017/10/civil-the-blockchain-based-journalism-marketplace-is-building-its-first-batch-of-publications/0 -
I've just been reading about the BBC's apology over Lord Lawson's bare faced lies during an interview about climate change. So dishonest was it that his own organisation of climate change deniers called it 'erroneous'.
What's interesting though is that he did exactly the same thing in the early skirmish over Brexit. On Question Time he said it was agreed for the EU to accept Turkey as a full member and that claim became the centre piece of the 'Leave' campain. It was by a distance the most effective of all their untruths. Even more than the much vaunted £350,000,000 to the NHS.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/24/bbc-apologises-over-interview-climate-sceptic-lord-nigel-lawson0 -
That has never stopped the SNP getting in first before.....kle4 said:
It comes from the Crown and from God!Richard_Tyndall said:
'The law' derives from the people or it has no validity.felix said:
Spain is a democracy which believes in the rule of law. Sad that you don't get that.CopperSulphate said:
Illegal because it was literally impossible for them to hold a legal one.felix said:
The Catalonian government organised an illegal referendum which the majority of voters boycotted. In Spain they value the rule of law for very sound historical reasons.CopperSulphate said:The Spanish should have given the Catalans a legal referendum which they would have won. Even then they could have negotiated afterwards sensibly. Instead they have made a complete pig's ear of it.
If you deny people the right to self determination then this is the result.
I don't find that remarkable - few will want to get involved in this powder keg.Scott_P said:0
