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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It looks as though Angerla Merkel will hand on in Germany

SystemSystem Posts: 12,562
edited September 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It looks as though Angerla Merkel will hand on in Germany

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  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,065

    A combined 38.5% is dire for the left wing parties.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,891
    edited September 2017
    Second like the SPD.

    It's looking pretty tasty outside the AfD HQ in Berlin.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Hand or Hang?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,065
    FPT @ Richard Nabavi, I think the US has always been a bit like the system of cuius regio, eius religio in the Holy Roman Empire. With so many diverse States, you can find one whose brand of authoritarianism is to your liking.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,095
    And to think Schulz was seen as potentially bolstering the SPD chances when he first was put forward, IIRC.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,925
    Theresa 42% of the vote in 2017
    Angela 32% of the vote in 2017
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,686
    Sean_F said:


    A combined 38.5% is dire for the left wing parties.

    33% is not great for CDU/CSU. It looks like our election: the incumbents hang on, but nobody has anything remotely describable as a mandate. At least as we Anglo-Saxons understand it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,581
    Sean_F said:


    A combined 38.5% is dire for the left wing parties.

    Silver linings :smiley:
  • Birra_MorettiBirra_Moretti Posts: 53
    Merkel wouldn't be the first German Chancellor to govern with 33 % of the vote.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Y0kel said:

    Hand or Hang?

    HELLO PB EDITOR

    Typo in headline
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,772
    Fishing said:

    Sean_F said:


    A combined 38.5% is dire for the left wing parties.

    33% is not great for CDU/CSU. It looks like our election: the incumbents hang on, but nobody has anything remotely describable as a mandate. At least as we Anglo-Saxons understand it.
    Not that dissimilar to NZ yesterday either, main conservative party wins but loses seats and voteshare, and in the 2 elections this weekend an anti immigration party has come 3rd
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,925
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Y0kel said:

    Hand or Hang?

    HELLO PB EDITOR

    Typo in headline
    No,no! She will hand on the leadership to, um, somebody?
  • Birra_MorettiBirra_Moretti Posts: 53
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Y0kel said:

    Hand or Hang?

    HELLO PB EDITOR

    Typo in headline
    Also Angela not Angerla.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,065
    Birra_Moretti said:

    Merkel wouldn't be the first German Chancellor to govern with 33 % of the vote.

    LOL!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,133
    Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,069
    Didn't Farage campaign for the AFD. Has anyone heard from him

    See Dianne Abbott had yet another car crash interview today - when is someone going to be kind and put her on the back benches
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Y0kel said:

    Hand or Hang?

    HELLO PB EDITOR

    Typo in headline
    Thanks you. Tonight's deliberate mistake.

    Just got back from hols and dealing with a mountain of mail
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,925
    Birra_Moretti said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Y0kel said:

    Hand or Hang?

    HELLO PB EDITOR

    Typo in headline
    Also Angela not Angerla.
    No, not a typo! Angela is angry that AfD did so well...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,069
    williamglenn said:

    Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

    So nothing changed then
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,295
    williamglenn said:

    Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

    Lol. Your dream is dying in front of you.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,069
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Birra_Moretti said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Y0kel said:

    Hand or Hang?

    HELLO PB EDITOR

    Typo in headline
    Also Angela not Angerla.
    No, not a typo! Angela is angry that AfD did so well...
    And in her back yard
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,133
    MaxPB said:

    williamglenn said:

    Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

    Lol. Your dream is dying in front of you.
    How so?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,065
    Angela Merkel's endless tacking leftwards appeals to a majority of Germans at any point in time, but alienates big minorities on the economically liberal right, and the socially conservative right.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    williamglenn said:

    Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

    What's he doing?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,295
    williamglenn said:

    MaxPB said:

    williamglenn said:

    Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

    Lol. Your dream is dying in front of you.
    How so?
    The chance of a federalist leading Germany is now lower than ever.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,133
    MaxPB said:

    williamglenn said:

    MaxPB said:

    williamglenn said:

    Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

    Lol. Your dream is dying in front of you.
    How so?
    The chance of a federalist leading Germany is now lower than ever.
    I never supported Schulz.

    Btw, his performance on TV is getting worse. More embarrassing than Schroeder in 2005.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,683
    Merkel has only herself to blame.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,095
    williamglenn said:

    MaxPB said:

    williamglenn said:

    MaxPB said:

    williamglenn said:

    Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

    Lol. Your dream is dying in front of you.
    How so?
    The chance of a federalist leading Germany is now lower than ever.
    I never supported Schulz.

    Btw, his performance on TV is getting worse. More embarrassing than Schroeder in 2005.
    What did Schroeder do?
  • Birra_MorettiBirra_Moretti Posts: 53
    williamglenn said:

    MaxPB said:

    williamglenn said:

    MaxPB said:

    williamglenn said:

    Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

    Lol. Your dream is dying in front of you.
    How so?
    The chance of a federalist leading Germany is now lower than ever.
    I never supported Schulz.

    Btw, his performance on TV is getting worse. More embarrassing than Schroeder in 2005.
    Is he intoxicated ?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,581
    williamglenn said:

    MaxPB said:

    williamglenn said:

    MaxPB said:

    williamglenn said:

    Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

    Lol. Your dream is dying in front of you.
    How so?
    The chance of a federalist leading Germany is now lower than ever.
    I never supported Schulz.

    Btw, his performance on TV is getting worse. More embarrassing than Schroeder in 2005.
    What's he up to?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,295
    williamglenn said:

    MaxPB said:

    williamglenn said:

    MaxPB said:

    williamglenn said:

    Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

    Lol. Your dream is dying in front of you.
    How so?
    The chance of a federalist leading Germany is now lower than ever.
    I never supported Schulz.

    Btw, his performance on TV is getting worse. More embarrassing than Schroeder in 2005.
    But you did support Merkel and she's lead the CDU to their worst result for a decade.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,133
    welshowl said:

    williamglenn said:

    Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

    What's he doing?
    They have a discussion round with all the party leaders and he's generally acting like a sore loser, interrupting everyone and not acting like a serious leader.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,069
    Birra_Moretti said:

    williamglenn said:

    MaxPB said:

    williamglenn said:

    MaxPB said:

    williamglenn said:

    Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

    Lol. Your dream is dying in front of you.
    How so?
    The chance of a federalist leading Germany is now lower than ever.
    I never supported Schulz.

    Btw, his performance on TV is getting worse. More embarrassing than Schroeder in 2005.
    Is he intoxicated ?
    Something in common with Juncker's then - all the free booze at EU taxpayers expense
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,065
    Casino_Royale said:

    Merkel has only herself to blame.

    She's the most left wing leader the CDU have ever had, and the voters are reacting to that.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,683
    Birra_Moretti said:

    Merkel wouldn't be the first German Chancellor to govern with 33 % of the vote.

    Harsh.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Of course, she will be there. Four more years !
  • glwglw Posts: 10,457
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Something in common with Juncker's then - all the free booze at EU taxpayers expense

    I wouldn't mind hearing what he has to say right about now.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,683
    Sean_F said:

    Angela Merkel's endless tacking leftwards appeals to a majority of Germans at any point in time, but alienates big minorities on the economically liberal right, and the socially conservative right.

    She is like a German female George Osborne following the agenda of Ed Miliband.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,295
    surbiton said:

    Of course, she will be there. Four more years !

    Lol, she's done. The CDU will swing to the right and Merkel can't do that.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,069
    glw said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Something in common with Juncker's then - all the free booze at EU taxpayers expense

    I wouldn't mind hearing what he has to say right about now.
    Pass me another bottle
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Sean_F said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Merkel has only herself to blame.

    She's the most left wing leader the CDU have ever had, and the voters are reacting to that.
    Was she right wing last time ? You do talk through your back-side.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,683
    Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

    Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,095
    So presumably the last election for Merkel - 12-16 years is not a bad run for an elected politician though.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,924
    edited September 2017
    williamglenn said:

    welshowl said:

    williamglenn said:

    Schulz is really making a fool of himself on TV at the moment.

    What's he doing?
    They have a discussion round with all the party leaders and he's generally acting like a sore loser, interrupting everyone and not acting like a serious leader.
    He's spent all his time in the EU parlt telling others what to do

    he doesnt understand debate
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,295
    Casino_Royale said:

    Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

    Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

    I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,069
    MaxPB said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

    Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

    I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.
    Yet another unpredictable result - they just go on and on but do show how far politicians have left behind millions of voters
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,924
    Casino_Royale said:

    Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

    Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

    young Macron might not get his bottom spanked now
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,891
    edited September 2017
    kle4 said:

    So presumably the last election for Merkel - 12-16 years is not a bad run for an elected politician though.

    Depends how they leave the country compared with how it was when they took charge.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,683
    Jamaican blobsled team, or Munich Beer Hall Putsch?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,095
    MaxPB said:

    surbiton said:

    Of course, she will be there. Four more years !

    Lol, she's done. The CDU will swing to the right and Merkel can't do that.
    Can she not? I'd always thought of Merkel as having no firm ideology, being all about compromise to achieve as wide a support as possible, but admittedly I know nothing about German politics.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,095
    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    So presumably the last election for Merkel - 12-16 years is not a bad run for an elected politician though.

    Depends how they leave the country compared with how it was when they took charge.
    That's how you decide if they were a success; I was merely commenting on electoral success.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,135
    Mike, you have "Angerla" Merkel in the headline. Freudian?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,772
    edited September 2017
    Alanbrooke said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

    Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

    young Macron might not get his bottom spanked now
    Macron has also had a bad day, En Marche came third in the French Senate elections today won by Les Republicains
    http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/france-macrons-party-faces-blow-senate-elections-50054150
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,135
    I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake :( ). Have a butchers...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,295
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    surbiton said:

    Of course, she will be there. Four more years !

    Lol, she's done. The CDU will swing to the right and Merkel can't do that.
    Can she not? I'd always thought of Merkel as having no firm ideology, being all about compromise to achieve as wide a support as possible, but admittedly I know nothing about German politics.
    After letting in over a million migrants and a decade of pushing socially liberal policies no one would believe her conversion.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    A traffic light coalition looks logical, but will the FDP fall for that again after their experience last time and that of their British Lib Dem allies in 2015?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,683
    MaxPB said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

    Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

    I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.
    Yes, the Twitterati view seems to be whatever the election result in Germany it's bad for Britain, and Brexit.

    Latest view from pundits (all of whom detest the AfD, of course) is that she must act even tougher on Brexit to avoid encouraging them still further.

    *facepalm*
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,095
    viewcode said:

    I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake :( ). Have a butchers...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

    I hope it's good - it's been a while since we had a good Trek series.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,581
    edited September 2017
    viewcode said:

    I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake :( ). Have a butchers...

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

    I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Casino_Royale said:

    MaxPB said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

    Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

    I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.
    Yes, the Twitterati view seems to be whatever the election result in Germany it's bad for Britain, and Brexit.

    Latest view from pundits (all of whom detest the AfD, of course) is that she must act even tougher on Brexit to avoid encouraging them still further.

    *facepalm*
    I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.
  • RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359
    viewcode said:

    I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake :( ). Have a butchers...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

    It's supposed to hit netflix tomorrow.
  • DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 968
    Berlin live results:

    https://www.wahlen-berlin.de/wahlen/BU2017/afspraes/erststimmen_gemeinde-11000000-berlin_gesamt.html
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,095
    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake :( ). Have a butchers...

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

    I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.
    She what? I guess people just feel the need to be important. I guess first Black and Female lead, but considering Trek has has a Black lead, and a Female lead, and had a major black female character in the 60s, it feels a bit strange to act like it's a big deal.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,861
    Big_G_NorthWales said:



    Yet another unpredictable result - they just go on and on but do show how far politicians have left behind millions of voters

    Far from the politicians "leaving the voters behind", the desperate desire to please everyone and promise the sun, the moon and the stars has brought the voters to this point.

    It's the desire to be popular whether it be Blair, Cameron, May or Merkel which has caused this. The desire to be all things to all people and create a broad but shallow constituency of support is an inherent part of democracy but works only if something can be delivered.

    I would argue the failure of the prevailing economic culture and model in 2007-08 is resonating into the political culture across the western world. Still, many bang the drum for capitalism but I would argue that's not working well for many for various reasons.

    Trump, AfD and Corbyn all latch on to that sense of failure and frustration but they have no answers either. We need to redefine our political and economic culture from the ground up and that means more thinking, less posturing and a willingness to challenge totems such as the desirability of tax cuts, the provision of welfare and indeed the role of work in general to name but three.

  • Birra_MorettiBirra_Moretti Posts: 53
    Casino_Royale said:

    MaxPB said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

    Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

    I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.
    Yes, the Twitterati view seems to be whatever the election result in Germany it's bad for Britain, and Brexit.

    Latest view from pundits (all of whom detest the AfD, of course) is that she must act even tougher on Brexit to avoid encouraging them still further.

    *facepalm*
    Maybe Merkel will follow Aung San Sui Kyi into the fuddyduddies' doghouse with an outrage.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,095
    stodge said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:



    Yet another unpredictable result - they just go on and on but do show how far politicians have left behind millions of voters

    Far from the politicians "leaving the voters behind", the desperate desire to please everyone and promise the sun, the moon and the stars has brought the voters to this point.

    It's the desire to be popular whether it be Blair, Cameron, May or Merkel which has caused this. The desire to be all things to all people and create a broad but shallow constituency of support is an inherent part of democracy but works only if something can be delivered.

    I would argue the failure of the prevailing economic culture and model in 2007-08 is resonating into the political culture across the western world. Still, many bang the drum for capitalism but I would argue that's not working well for many for various reasons.

    Trump, AfD and Corbyn all latch on to that sense of failure and frustration but they have no answers either. We need to redefine our political and economic culture from the ground up and that means more thinking, less posturing and a willingness to challenge totems such as the desirability of tax cuts, the provision of welfare and indeed the role of work in general to name but three.

    I'll call that a long shot. As Blair and Merkel in particular showed, it works for a long time, why would anyone try something different unless they had no choice? (and most will have other choices).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,065
    surbiton said:

    Sean_F said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Merkel has only herself to blame.

    She's the most left wing leader the CDU have ever had, and the voters are reacting to that.
    Was she right wing last time ? You do talk through your back-side.
    She failed to win a majority last time, and had to rely on the left to govern.

    Granted, you want a left wing Chancellor, but she's grinding down her own party. This is the CDU's lowest vote since 1949.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,925
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake :( ). Have a butchers...

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

    I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.
    She what? I guess people just feel the need to be important. I guess first Black and Female lead, but considering Trek has has a Black lead, and a Female lead, and had a major black female character in the 60s, it feels a bit strange to act like it's a big deal.
    Don't forget major Japanese character too!
  • glwglw Posts: 10,457
    Ishmael_Z said:

    I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

    But even the Macron victory was a rejection of politics as usual. It's not so much a right versus left issue, as an established parties versus upstarts. If there is any overall lesson it's that across the world parties and people who "can't win" are doing better than expected. People are fed up with parties of all colours and willing to give alternatives a go, or at least give the incumbents a kick up the arse.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,135
    Rhubarb said:

    viewcode said:

    I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake :( ). Have a butchers...

    h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

    It's supposed to hit netflix tomorrow.
    Some time within the next 24 hrs somebody will leak it onto YouTube, or somewhere else on t'net. Which I will not look at, honest, ohdearmeno... :)

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,924
    DoubleCarpet said:

    Berlin live results:

    https://www.wahlen-berlin.de/wahlen/BU2017/afspraes/erststimmen_gemeinde-11000000-berlin_gesamt.html

    Berlin Marzahn

    Linke first
    AfD second
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited September 2017
    Merkel in charge, either with a coalition, or in a minority government. There seems no viable alternative.

    So it looks like Merkel cannot pull our Brexit nuts out of the fire. She has domestic fish to fry.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,924
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Merkel in charge, either with a coalition, or in a minority government. There seems no viable alternative.

    So it looks like Merkel cannot pull our Brexit nuts out of the fire. She has domestic fish to fry.

    Zzzz usual Brexit bollocks

    give it a break for one evening
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,135
    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake :( ). Have a butchers...

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

    I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.
    Tuvok, Uhura, Worf, LaForge... Millennials have no memory, bless 'em. :)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited September 2017
    glw said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

    But even the Macron victory was a rejection of politics as usual. It's not so much a right versus left issue, as an established parties versus upstarts. If there is any overall lesson it's that across the world parties and people who "can't win" are doing better than expected. People are fed up with parties of all colours and willing to give alternatives a go, or at least give the incumbents a kick up the arse.

    Kicking the chair away from the establishment is a short lived atavistic pleasure. A bit like pissing your pants, a brief warm feeling followed by discomfort and embarrassment, then a mess to clean up.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    MaxPB said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

    Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

    I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.
    Yes, the Twitterati view seems to be whatever the election result in Germany it's bad for Britain, and Brexit.

    Latest view from pundits (all of whom detest the AfD, of course) is that she must act even tougher on Brexit to avoid encouraging them still further.

    *facepalm*
    I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.
    It's not really a happy result for anyone who is against the far right.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,581
    viewcode said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake :( ). Have a butchers...

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

    I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.
    Tuvok, Uhura, Worf, LaForge... Millennials have no memory, bless 'em. :)
    And totally missing the point that race (or anything else) doesn't matter in the Trek universe.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    foxinsoxuk said:

    glw said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

    But even the Macron victory was a rejection of politics as usual. It's not so much a right versus left issue, as an established parties versus upstarts. If there is any overall lesson it's that across the world parties and people who "can't win" are doing better than expected. People are fed up with parties of all colours and willing to give alternatives a go, or at least give the incumbents a kick up the arse.

    Kicking the chair away from the establishment is a short lived atavistic pleasure. A bit like pissing your pants, a brief warm feeling followed by discomfort and embarrassment.
    Pretty much. Look at Trump for example.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,891
    The_Apocalypse said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    MaxPB said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

    Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

    I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.
    Yes, the Twitterati view seems to be whatever the election result in Germany it's bad for Britain, and Brexit.

    Latest view from pundits (all of whom detest the AfD, of course) is that she must act even tougher on Brexit to avoid encouraging them still further.

    *facepalm*
    I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.
    It's not really a happy result for anyone who is against the far right.
    Or the far left.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited September 2017
    tlg86 said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    MaxPB said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

    Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

    I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.
    Yes, the Twitterati view seems to be whatever the election result in Germany it's bad for Britain, and Brexit.

    Latest view from pundits (all of whom detest the AfD, of course) is that she must act even tougher on Brexit to avoid encouraging them still further.

    *facepalm*
    I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.
    It's not really a happy result for anyone who is against the far right.
    Or the far left.
    Them too. Wonder how many seats they're projected to win?

    Re glw's point: it reminds me of the Labour leadership election back in 2015. Too many of these centrists come across as empty vessels and can only talk in cliches and platitudes. I voted for Yvette, but mainly because she wasn't Corbyn.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,924

    the chart on the bottom of the link shows vote flows between elections

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/bundestagswahl/bundestagswahl-zahlen-umfragen-prognosen-fakten-15194715.html
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,891
    The_Apocalypse said:

    tlg86 said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    MaxPB said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

    Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

    I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.
    Yes, the Twitterati view seems to be whatever the election result in Germany it's bad for Britain, and Brexit.

    Latest view from pundits (all of whom detest the AfD, of course) is that she must act even tougher on Brexit to avoid encouraging them still further.

    *facepalm*
    I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.
    It's not really a happy result for anyone who is against the far right.
    Or the far left.
    Them too. Wonder how many seats they're projected to win?
    65 apparently.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,924
    The_Apocalypse said:

    tlg86 said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    MaxPB said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

    Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

    I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.
    Yes, the Twitterati view seems to be whatever the election result in Germany it's bad for Britain, and Brexit.

    Latest view from pundits (all of whom detest the AfD, of course) is that she must act even tougher on Brexit to avoid encouraging them still further.

    *facepalm*
    I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.
    It's not really a happy result for anyone who is against the far right.
    Or the far left.
    Them too. Wonder how many seats they're projected to win?
    currently 65 in the Bundestag
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    The_Apocalypse said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    glw said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

    But even the Macron victory was a rejection of politics as usual. It's not so much a right versus left issue, as an established parties versus upstarts. If there is any overall lesson it's that across the world parties and people who "can't win" are doing better than expected. People are fed up with parties of all colours and willing to give alternatives a go, or at least give the incumbents a kick up the arse.

    Kicking the chair away from the establishment is a short lived atavistic pleasure. A bit like pissing your pants, a brief warm feeling followed by discomfort and embarrassment.
    Pretty much. Look at Trump for example.
    Or Corbyn, Leftist populusm to teach a lesson to the right wing populists? I'm in ;)
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,856
    Birra_Moretti said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    MaxPB said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Can't stop laughing at the German federal election result.

    Perhaps she'll deal with May now with a bit more humility.

    I doubt it. If anything she will try and assert herself on the international stage instead of fixing her domestic problems. One imagines that the average AfD voter sympathises with or supports Brexit, but she probably doesn't want to see it.
    Yes, the Twitterati view seems to be whatever the election result in Germany it's bad for Britain, and Brexit.

    Latest view from pundits (all of whom detest the AfD, of course) is that she must act even tougher on Brexit to avoid encouraging them still further.

    *facepalm*
    Maybe Merkel will follow Aung San Sui Kyi into the fuddyduddies' doghouse with an outrage.
    She was already there for some (and with good reason):

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/19/world-leading-eco-vandal-angela-merkel-german-environmental
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,891
    Alanbrooke said:


    the chart on the bottom of the link shows vote flows between elections

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/bundestagswahl/bundestagswahl-zahlen-umfragen-prognosen-fakten-15194715.html

    That chart is called a Sankey diagram.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,925
    viewcode said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake :( ). Have a butchers...

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

    I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.
    Tuvok, Uhura, Worf, LaForge... Millennials have no memory, bless 'em. :)
    I think it's a ref to Sisko being the lead in DS9
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,135
    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake :( ). Have a butchers...

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

    I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.
    Tuvok, Uhura, Worf, LaForge... Millennials have no memory, bless 'em. :)
    And totally missing the point that race (or anything else) doesn't matter in the Trek universe.
    indeed
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,772
    edited September 2017
    stodge said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:



    Yet another unpredictable result - they just go on and on but do show how far politicians have left behind millions of voters

    Far from the politicians "leaving the voters behind", the desperate desire to please everyone and promise the sun, the moon and the stars has brought the voters to this point.

    It's the desire to be popular whether it be Blair, Cameron, May or Merkel which has caused this. The desire to be all things to all people and create a broad but shallow constituency of support is an inherent part of democracy but works only if something can be delivered.

    I would argue the failure of the prevailing economic culture and model in 2007-08 is resonating into the political culture across the western world. Still, many bang the drum for capitalism but I would argue that's not working well for many for various reasons.

    Trump, AfD and Corbyn all latch on to that sense of failure and frustration but they have no answers either. We need to redefine our political and economic culture from the ground up and that means more thinking, less posturing and a willingness to challenge totems such as the desirability of tax cuts, the provision of welfare and indeed the role of work in general to name but three.

    The rising voteshare for Trump, Sanders, the AfD, Die Linke, UKIP and Leave, Corbyn, Jacinda Ardern, Melenchon and Le Pen, Golden Dawn and Wilders, Syriza and Podemos, Beppe Grillo and NZ First and One Nation ie populists of left and right are factors of two causes.

    On the populist right a largely anti immigration sentiment and on the populist left a largely anti austerity sentiment

    However apart from Trump and Tsipras and Syriza none have actually yet won a general or presidential election (albeit Leave did win a referendum), so that suggests they are protest votes demanding adjustments from the main parties rather than desires to actually put populists in power
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,135
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    viewcode said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake :( ). Have a butchers...

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

    I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.
    Tuvok, Uhura, Worf, LaForge... Millennials have no memory, bless 'em. :)
    I think it's a ref to Sisko being the lead in DS9
    @RobD had already mentioned Sisko
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,856
    edited September 2017
    foxinsoxuk said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    glw said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

    But even the Macron victory was a rejection of politics as usual. It's not so much a right versus left issue, as an established parties versus upstarts. If there is any overall lesson it's that across the world parties and people who "can't win" are doing better than expected. People are fed up with parties of all colours and willing to give alternatives a go, or at least give the incumbents a kick up the arse.

    Kicking the chair away from the establishment is a short lived atavistic pleasure. A bit like pissing your pants, a brief warm feeling followed by discomfort and embarrassment.
    Pretty much. Look at Trump for example.
    Or Corbyn, Leftist populusm to teach a lesson to the right wing populists? I'm in ;)
    I thought you were highly paid and rented out a property ? And an active Christian.

    If so I'd be careful what you wish for :wink:
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    foxinsoxuk said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    glw said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

    But even the Macron victory was a rejection of politics as usual. It's not so much a right versus left issue, as an established parties versus upstarts. If there is any overall lesson it's that across the world parties and people who "can't win" are doing better than expected. People are fed up with parties of all colours and willing to give alternatives a go, or at least give the incumbents a kick up the arse.

    Kicking the chair away from the establishment is a short lived atavistic pleasure. A bit like pissing your pants, a brief warm feeling followed by discomfort and embarrassment.
    Pretty much. Look at Trump for example.
    Or Corbyn, Leftist populusm to teach a lesson to the right wing populists? I'm in ;)
    Yes, the populist left are alive and well. Labour moderates haven't a hope in hell of 'getting their party back'. And while I do sympathise with their plight to a degree, I also think they've brought a lot of it on themselves. Some of the people on the so-called right of Labour just have some unbelievable positions for people who call themselves left. I'm reminded of Oliver Kamm who supported the re-election of Bush in 2004. You don't have to be on the very left of the Labour Party to see the likes of him seeing themselves as 'left', or as 'Labour' as being ridiculous.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,925
    viewcode said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    viewcode said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake :( ). Have a butchers...

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

    I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.
    Tuvok, Uhura, Worf, LaForge... Millennials have no memory, bless 'em. :)
    I think it's a ref to Sisko being the lead in DS9
    @RobD had already mentioned Sisko
    He mentioned him because he was the lead character in DS9. Like Kirk was head honcho in TOS and Picard in TNG.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    another_richard said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    glw said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

    But even the Macron victory was a rejection of politics as usual. It's not so much a right versus left issue, as an established parties versus upstarts. If there is any overall lesson it's that across the world parties and people who "can't win" are doing better than expected. People are fed up with parties of all colours and willing to give alternatives a go, or at least give the incumbents a kick up the arse.

    Kicking the chair away from the establishment is a short lived atavistic pleasure. A bit like pissing your pants, a brief warm feeling followed by discomfort and embarrassment.
    Pretty much. Look at Trump for example.
    Or Corbyn, Leftist populusm to teach a lesson to the right wing populists? I'm in ;)
    I thought you were highly paid and rented out a property ? And an active Christian.

    If so I'd be careful what you wish for :wink:
    So, such a person cannot support the left ?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,856
    Considering that this should be the optimum time in the economic cycle for Germany's establishment parties things could get even worse for them in four years time.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Alanbrooke said:


    the chart on the bottom of the link shows vote flows between elections

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/bundestagswahl/bundestagswahl-zahlen-umfragen-prognosen-fakten-15194715.html

    Thanks for that Link, Its fascinating.

    Among other things I note that of the 570,000 who voted Left party, 430,000 moved to. loosing 84% of there supporters from last time (made up for by switchers form the SPD)

    The AdF and Left Party are at different ends of a linear political spectrum, they are 2 collectivist monstrositys, just with different insignia, they hate each other because they are fighting for the same voters
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,581
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    viewcode said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    viewcode said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    I so hate to interrupt the merkelbashing, but the first series of "Star Trek: Discovery" is tonight, and the title sequence is online now (unless it's fake :( ). Have a butchers...

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9E2olGqUlU

    I still can't get over the fact that one of the cast members described herself as the first black lead in Star Trek, completely forgetting Avery Brooks as Sisko. Especially ironic given that star trek was supposed to be beyond all that stuff.
    Tuvok, Uhura, Worf, LaForge... Millennials have no memory, bless 'em. :)
    I think it's a ref to Sisko being the lead in DS9
    @RobD had already mentioned Sisko
    He mentioned him because he was the lead character in DS9. Like Kirk was head honcho in TOS and Picard in TNG.
    I think viewcode was mentioning other examples
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    BigRich said:

    Alanbrooke said:


    the chart on the bottom of the link shows vote flows between elections

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/bundestagswahl/bundestagswahl-zahlen-umfragen-prognosen-fakten-15194715.html

    Thanks for that Link, Its fascinating.

    Among other things I note that of the 570,000 who voted Left party, 430,000 moved to. loosing 84% of there supporters from last time (made up for by switchers form the SPD)

    The AdF and Left Party are at different ends of a linear political spectrum, they are 2 collectivist monstrositys, just with different insignia, they hate each other because they are fighting for the same voters
    Just realsied I was reading the cart wrong, but I think my point still largely stands
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,856
    The_Apocalypse said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    glw said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    I thought Macron's victory was meant to have drawn an ineradicable line under under Trumpy Brexity alt right naughtiness. This is not a happy result for the bien pensant.

    But even the Macron victory was a rejection of politics as usual. It's not so much a right versus left issue, as an established parties versus upstarts. If there is any overall lesson it's that across the world parties and people who "can't win" are doing better than expected. People are fed up with parties of all colours and willing to give alternatives a go, or at least give the incumbents a kick up the arse.

    Kicking the chair away from the establishment is a short lived atavistic pleasure. A bit like pissing your pants, a brief warm feeling followed by discomfort and embarrassment.
    Pretty much. Look at Trump for example.
    Or Corbyn, Leftist populusm to teach a lesson to the right wing populists? I'm in ;)
    Yes, the populist left are alive and well. Labour moderates haven't a hope in hell of 'getting their party back'. And while I do sympathise with their plight to a degree, I also think they've brought a lot of it on themselves. Some of the people on the so-called right of Labour just have some unbelievable positions for people who call themselves left. I'm reminded of Oliver Kamm who supported the re-election of Bush in 2004. You don't have to be on the very left of the Labour Party to see the likes of him seeing themselves as 'left', or as 'Labour' as being ridiculous.
    The Labour establishment forgot about fairness.
    The Conservative establishment forgot about aspiration.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,924
    tweet

    88 Sitze für AfD pronostiziert. Dieser Wahlabend hat Humor.

    AfD on for 88 seats, this electionhas a sense of humour
This discussion has been closed.