politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It is a mistake to assume that LAB leave voters feel as strong
Comments
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A funny bit of graffiti on Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_and_bank_holidays_in_Scotland0 -
If we want continuity, and we almost certainly do want it, it will be on EU terms. They own the system.philiph said:
So the EU aren't really negotiating, just presenting the internally agreed position for us to accept as a fait accompli.
That will work well.
Excuse me if in future I take any protestations from them about lack of progress with contempt and reply with 'negotiation is not presentation of you position and implementation'
The most to the point summary I have read recently is in this piece in Bloomberg today: Britain Must Accept the Hard Truth About Brexit. -The interim deal it desperately needs is one it won't like.
There's no point in seeking a transitional deal that will be almost as contentious and complicated as the final one. To be done quickly, it has to be simple. More than that, it also has to put the U.K. in a plainly disadvantageous position.
[...]
The greatest need of all is to prepare the U.K. for disappointment. Even on the view that Brexit might ultimately succeed, what's required in the interim is an agreement that, from Britain's point of view, is worse than the deal the country already has. This arrangement should be seen as a holding action involving short-term political and economic costs -- justified because it avoids the outright disaster of a so-called cliff-edge Brexit.
That's not a very sellable proposition to a public that has bought into Brexit giving back control. At the same time the "interim" arrangement and maintaining continuity are all that matter to us in these negotiations.
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First Thursday in September, to save you the 5 minutes it has taken me to find.tlg86 said:A funny bit of graffiti on Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_and_bank_holidays_in_Scotland0 -
As a matter of interest just who do you think should be negotiating and how would their position be any different, unless of course they will accept the £100 billion exit bill.Beverley_C said:
Personally, I think it would be better if someone took Davies aside and fired him on the spot. In fact none of the Three Brexiteers seems to be any good at anything they do.viewcode said:Sooner or later it would be better if a neutral friend took Davies aside and quietly explained his position.
What, in 12 months, have Fox, Boris and Davies accomplished? Anything of note?
The EU is the one playing a dangerous game as any unreasonable exit bill will not be paid as the public would be in uproar.
It can only be a short time away from the various countries in the EU's trade organisations coming together with the UK trade bodies to knock the politicians heads together.
It has already started today with a joint statement to this effect from the German and UK trade bodies0 -
No we don't want continuity, that is the whole point ardent Remainers don't understand, we want to end free movement in the short term and regain sovereignty in the long term. If we wanted continuity we would never have voted to Leave the EU in the first placeFF43 said:
If we want continuity, and we almost certainly do want it, it will be on EU terms. They own the system.philiph said:
So the EU aren't really negotiating, just presenting the internally agreed position for us to accept as a fait accompli.
That will work well.
Excuse me if in future I take any protestations from them about lack of progress with contempt and reply with 'negotiation is not presentation of you position and implementation'
The most to the point summary I have read recently is in this piece in Bloomberg today: Britain Must Accept the Hard Truth About Brexit. -The interim deal it desperately needs is one it won't like.
There's no point in seeking a transitional deal that will be almost as contentious and complicated as the final one. To be done quickly, it has to be simple. More than that, it also has to put the U.K. in a plainly disadvantageous position.
[...]
The greatest need of all is to prepare the U.K. for disappointment. Even on the view that Brexit might ultimately succeed, what's required in the interim is an agreement that, from Britain's point of view, is worse than the deal the country already has. This arrangement should be seen as a holding action involving short-term political and economic costs -- justified because it avoids the outright disaster of a so-called cliff-edge Brexit.
That's not a very sellable proposition to a public that has bought into Brexit giving back control. At the same time the "interim" arrangement and maintaining continuity are all that matter to us in these negotiations.0 -
That is about right. From the EU perspective the negotions are about implementation rather than objectives.philiph said:
So the EU aren't really negotiating, just presenting the internally agreed position for us to accept as a fait accompli.foxinsoxuk said:
If you read the thread, their position papers are agreed by all members, by several different organs of the EU. Not fixed, but not easily changed without extensive consultation. The length of that probably exceeds the span of time available. So unless an issue really is a deal breaker, then it is not worth arguing over.RobD said:
I'm not sure the fact they have documents in various places necessarily means they are not flexible.foxinsoxuk said:
David Allen Green did a good thread on this. For better or worse there is very little flexibility in the EU position, we really have to decide if it works for us or whether we prefer to have WTO Brexit.nigel4england said:
Of course he is, remember the golden rule:RobD said:
EU = good
UK = bad
The same childish rubbish day after day, and I am afraid OGH sets the tone.
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/901886935735705600
In practice, it will be take it or leave it, and with WTO Brexit as default, that is where the probable outcome lies.
That will work well.
Excuse me if in future I take any protestations from them about lack of progress with contempt and reply with 'negotiation is not presentation of you position and implementation'0 -
It is a view.FF43 said:
If we want continuity, and we almost certainly do want it, it will be on EU terms. They own the system.philiph said:
So the EU aren't really negotiating, just presenting the internally agreed position for us to accept as a fait accompli.
That will work well.
Excuse me if in future I take any protestations from them about lack of progress with contempt and reply with 'negotiation is not presentation of you position and implementation'
The most to the point summary I have read recently is in this piece in Bloomberg today: Britain Must Accept the Hard Truth About Brexit. -The interim deal it desperately needs is one it won't like.
There's no point in seeking a transitional deal that will be almost as contentious and complicated as the final one. To be done quickly, it has to be simple. More than that, it also has to put the U.K. in a plainly disadvantageous position.
[...]
The greatest need of all is to prepare the U.K. for disappointment. Even on the view that Brexit might ultimately succeed, what's required in the interim is an agreement that, from Britain's point of view, is worse than the deal the country already has. This arrangement should be seen as a holding action involving short-term political and economic costs -- justified because it avoids the outright disaster of a so-called cliff-edge Brexit.
That's not a very sellable proposition to a public that has bought into Brexit giving back control. At the same time the "interim" arrangement and maintaining continuity are all that matter to us in these negotiations.
It will be fun times when we get to know the results (if there are any) of the negotiations.
Challenges lies ahead, and I know you will disagree, but opportunities too.0 -
It will be interesting to see how this pans out. I don't think the EU can stall indefinitely assuming the UK keeps pushing for further separation, but they should be able to spin it out if they play it competently. And they have the means to make the interim period uncomfortable for the UK if they choose.williamglenn said:
The piece by Leonid Bershidsky I posted below concurs with your long-standing view:FF43 said:
The fudge won't be in the outcomes. The fudge is that this is a negotiation at all. It's more a sorting out of things, at least from the EU's point of view. What happens to the aspidistra, type of thing. We think it's important a deal is seen to be made.foxinsoxuk said:
David Allen Green did a good thread on this. For better or worse there is very little flexibility in the EU position, we really have to decide if it works for us or whether we prefer to have WTO Brexit.nigel4england said:
Of course he is, remember the golden rule:RobD said:
EU = good
UK = bad
The same childish rubbish day after day, and I am afraid OGH sets the tone.
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/901886935735705600
It will last as long as it takes the U.K. and the EU to agree on a new trade deal; otherwise, a transition is pointless. But the U.K. cannot dictate the pace of the negotiations, and the EU isn't interested in dictating it as long as the transition period preserves current arrangements. The EU, after all, didn't initiate Brexit; it's happy for the U.K. to stay on current terms, and if it loses its vote, too, that'll only be a bonus.0 -
So they aren't negotiations as all. That makes it hard for our team to engage and show any progress.foxinsoxuk said:
That is about right. From the EU perspective the negotions are about implementation rather than objectives.philiph said:
So the EU aren't really negotiating, just presenting the internally agreed position for us to accept as a fait accompli.foxinsoxuk said:
If you read the thread, their position papers are agreed by all members, by several different organs of the EU. Not fixed, but not easily changed without extensive consultation. The length of that probably exceeds the span of time available. So unless an issue really is a deal breaker, then it is not worth arguing over.RobD said:
I'm not sure the fact they have documents in various places necessarily means they are not flexible.foxinsoxuk said:
David Allen Green did a good thread on this. For better or worse there is very little flexibility in the EU position, we really have to decide if it works for us or whether we prefer to have WTO Brexit.nigel4england said:
Of course he is, remember the golden rule:RobD said:
EU = good
UK = bad
The same childish rubbish day after day, and I am afraid OGH sets the tone.
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/901886935735705600
In practice, it will be take it or leave it, and with WTO Brexit as default, that is where the probable outcome lies.
That will work well.
Excuse me if in future I take any protestations from them about lack of progress with contempt and reply with 'negotiation is not presentation of you position and implementation'0 -
Disappointing to think that making the interim 'uncomfortable' could be an objective, goal or intention of EU.FF43 said:
It will be interesting to see how this pans out. I don't think the EU can stall indefinitely assuming the UK keeps pushing for further separation, but they should be able to spin it out if they play it competently. And they have the means to make the interim period uncomfortable for the UK if they choose.williamglenn said:
The piece by Leonid Bershidsky I posted below concurs with your long-standing view:FF43 said:
The fudge won't be in the outcomes. The fudge is that this is a negotiation at all. It's more a sorting out of things, at least from the EU's point of view. What happens to the aspidistra, type of thing. We think it's important a deal is seen to be made.foxinsoxuk said:
David Allen Green did a good thread on this. For better or worse there is very little flexibility in the EU position, we really have to decide if it works for us or whether we prefer to have WTO Brexit.nigel4england said:
Of course he is, remember the golden rule:RobD said:
EU = good
UK = bad
The same childish rubbish day after day, and I am afraid OGH sets the tone.
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/901886935735705600
It will last as long as it takes the U.K. and the EU to agree on a new trade deal; otherwise, a transition is pointless. But the U.K. cannot dictate the pace of the negotiations, and the EU isn't interested in dictating it as long as the transition period preserves current arrangements. The EU, after all, didn't initiate Brexit; it's happy for the U.K. to stay on current terms, and if it loses its vote, too, that'll only be a bonus.0 -
Going by the comments in City AM, the Article 50 period itself will start to get uncomfortable for the UK very quickly.FF43 said:
It will be interesting to see how this pans out. I don't think the EU can stall indefinitely assuming the UK keeps pushing for further separation, but they should be able to spin it out if they play it competently. And they have the means to make the interim period uncomfortable for the UK if they choose.williamglenn said:
The piece by Leonid Bershidsky I posted below concurs with your long-standing view:FF43 said:
The fudge won't be in the outcomes. The fudge is that this is a negotiation at all. It's more a sorting out of things, at least from the EU's point of view. What happens to the aspidistra, type of thing. We think it's important a deal is seen to be made.foxinsoxuk said:
David Allen Green did a good thread on this. For better or worse there is very little flexibility in the EU position, we really have to decide if it works for us or whether we prefer to have WTO Brexit.nigel4england said:
Of course he is, remember the golden rule:RobD said:
EU = good
UK = bad
The same childish rubbish day after day, and I am afraid OGH sets the tone.
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/901886935735705600
It will last as long as it takes the U.K. and the EU to agree on a new trade deal; otherwise, a transition is pointless. But the U.K. cannot dictate the pace of the negotiations, and the EU isn't interested in dictating it as long as the transition period preserves current arrangements. The EU, after all, didn't initiate Brexit; it's happy for the U.K. to stay on current terms, and if it loses its vote, too, that'll only be a bonus.
I think the government were sanguine about conceding on Barnier's initial sequencing because they still held onto the view that nothing would happen until after the German elections anyway. Once the German elections have been and gone, and the UK's position is weaker than it was before we started, then panic will really set in.
Brexit's Black Wednesday moment could come before Christmas.0 -
I have no idea who should be negotiating except that the current lot do not seem to be doing any negotiating anyway. We could achieve the same results as we have now by replacing them with cardboard cut-outs. In Boris's case the cardboard cut-out might be better because at least it would not go around the world making gaffes and blunders.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As a matter of interest just who do you think should be negotiating and how would their position be any different, unless of course they will accept the £100 billion exit bill.Beverley_C said:
Personally, I think it would be better if someone took Davies aside and fired him on the spot. In fact none of the Three Brexiteers seems to be any good at anything they do.viewcode said:Sooner or later it would be better if a neutral friend took Davies aside and quietly explained his position.
What, in 12 months, have Fox, Boris and Davies accomplished? Anything of note?
Nobody is going to be a winner. That is what is so bl**dy stupid about the whole thing, but as Mike header shows, stupidity and wilful self-damage seems to be OK with a lot of people.Big_G_NorthWales said:The EU is the one playing a dangerous game as any unreasonable exit bill will not be paid as the public would be in uproar.
Let us hope so because the current mess is descending into a shamblesBig_G_NorthWales said:It can only be a short time away from the various countries in the EU's trade organisations coming together with the UK trade bodies to knock the politicians heads together.
It has already started today with a joint statement to this effect from the German and UK trade bodies0 -
Our lot need it to be seen as a negotiated deal, that the arrangement is special to us, even if it was the only thing they were prepared to do, that any jurisdiction must be "indirect", that payments are for access and not for exiting, and so on. There is a real risk IMO of the EU messing this up through a lack of tact and euphemism. Otherwise I am optimistic for a deal - "better than nothing but worse than what we have already" is a big negotiating space. It should be possible to come up with something that works for both parties.philiph said:So they aren't negotiations as all. That makes it hard for our team to engage and show any progress.
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To be honest your posts are so predictable, selective, and frankly boring I do not understand why you persist other than that the EU is clearly an all consuming obsession for you that affects your ability to see both sides of an argument.williamglenn said:
Going by the comments in City AM, the Article 50 period itself will start to get uncomfortable for the UK very quickly.FF43 said:
It will be interesting to see how this pans out. I don't think the EU can stall indefinitely assuming the UK keeps pushing for further separation, but they should be able to spin it out if they play it competently. And they have the means to make the interim period uncomfortable for the UK if they choose.williamglenn said:
The piece by Leonid Bershidsky I posted below concurs with your long-standing view:FF43 said:
The fudge won't be in the outcomes. The fudge is that this is a negotiation at all. It's more a sorting out of things, at least from the EU's point of view. What happens to the aspidistra, type of thing. We think it's important a deal is seen to be made.foxinsoxuk said:
David Allen Green did a good thread on this. For better or worse there is very little flexibility in the EU position, we really have to decide if it works for us or whether we prefer to have WTO Brexit.nigel4england said:
Of course he is, remember the golden rule:RobD said:
EU = good
UK = bad
The same childish rubbish day after day, and I am afraid OGH sets the tone.
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/901886935735705600
It will last as long as it takes the U.K. and the EU to agree on a new trade deal; otherwise, a transition is pointless. But the U.K. cannot dictate the pace of the negotiations, and the EU isn't interested in dictating it as long as the transition period preserves current arrangements. The EU, after all, didn't initiate Brexit; it's happy for the U.K. to stay on current terms, and if it loses its vote, too, that'll only be a bonus.
I think the government were sanguine about conceding on Barnier's initial sequencing because they still held onto the view that nothing would happen until after the German elections anyway. Once the German elections have been and gone, and the UK's position is weaker than it was before we started, then panic will really set in.
Brexit's Black Wednesday moment could come before Christmas.0 -
Well said and broadly my viewFF43 said:
Our lot need it to be seen as a negotiated deal, that the arrangement is special to us, even if it was the only thing they were prepared to do, that any jurisdiction must be "indirect", that payments are for access and not for exiting, and so on. There is a real risk IMO of the EU messing this up through a lack of tact and euphemism. Otherwise I am optimistic for a deal - "better than nothing but worse than what we have already" is a big negotiating space. It should be possible to come up with something that works for both parties.philiph said:So they aren't negotiations as all. That makes it hard for our team to engage and show any progress.
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The government has not done a single thing since the referendum to prepare people, the country and systems for the dislocation and for the real personal sacrifices they will face to "regain sovereignty", which is really just making a different set of choices from what one half of the country wants. While a smallish minority of people might be OK with "what it takes", most haven't shown any particular rush to the barricades. I take that to mean people aren't that desperate to throw everything away.HYUFD said:
No we don't want continuity, that is the whole point ardent Remainers don't understand, we want to end free movement in the short term and regain sovereignty in the long term. If we wanted continuity we would never have voted to Leave the EU in the first placeFF43 said:
If we want continuity, and we almost certainly do want it, it will be on EU terms. They own the system.philiph said:
So the EU aren't really negotiating, just presenting the internally agreed position for us to accept as a fait accompli.
That will work well.
Excuse me if in future I take any protestations from them about lack of progress with contempt and reply with 'negotiation is not presentation of you position and implementation'
The most to the point summary I have read recently is in this piece in Bloomberg today: Britain Must Accept the Hard Truth About Brexit. -The interim deal it desperately needs is one it won't like.
There's no point in seeking a transitional deal that will be almost as contentious and complicated as the final one. To be done quickly, it has to be simple. More than that, it also has to put the U.K. in a plainly disadvantageous position.
[...]
The greatest need of all is to prepare the U.K. for disappointment. Even on the view that Brexit might ultimately succeed, what's required in the interim is an agreement that, from Britain's point of view, is worse than the deal the country already has. This arrangement should be seen as a holding action involving short-term political and economic costs -- justified because it avoids the outright disaster of a so-called cliff-edge Brexit.
That's not a very sellable proposition to a public that has bought into Brexit giving back control. At the same time the "interim" arrangement and maintaining continuity are all that matter to us in these negotiations.0 -
What, in 12 months, have Fox, Boris and Davies accomplished? Anything of note?
As a matter of interest just who do you think should be negotiating and how would their position be any different, unless of course they will accept the £100 billion exit bill.
I have no idea who should be negotiating except that the current lot do not seem to be doing any negotiating anyway. We could achieve the same results as we have now by replacing them with cardboard cut-outs. In Boris's case the cardboard cut-out might be better because at least it would not go around the world making gaffes and blunders.
Nobody is going to be a winner. That is what is so bl**dy stupid about the whole thing, but as Mike header shows, stupidity and wilful self-damage seems to be OK with a lot of people.Big_G_NorthWales said:The EU is the one playing a dangerous game as any unreasonable exit bill will not be paid as the public would be in uproar.
Let us hope so because the current mess is descending into a shamblesBig_G_NorthWales said:It can only be a short time away from the various countries in the EU's trade organisations coming together with the UK trade bodies to knock the politicians heads together.
It has already started today with a joint statement to this effect from the German and UK trade bodies
Thanks for your replies Beverley which I do accept are understandable.
However, the problem is that a vote has taken place to leave and the big issues are the cost of leaving (the public will not accept much), control of free movement which the majority demand, and the idea that EU citizens in the UK somehow will be subject to an external Court (ECJ) is absolutely a non starter.
Labour took a decision yesterday that is incoherent and according to 5 live this morning has not gone down well with some of their MP's and a large number of their supporters.
I often get accused of being a Brexiteer (opposite of Remoaner) both words being equally offensive, when I voted remain but now want to leave as it was a democratic decision. The arrogance shown by the EU is only making it more likely that many, indeed the majority, are sooner or later going to tell the EU to get lost, no matter what the cost.
That is my fear and the EU have as much a responsibility to step up to the plate as has the UK
We are leaving, I cannot see any way that we could now say we are staying in the single market and customs union.0 -
This being the same German elections where the Eurosceptic AfD are on 9/10% in the latest polls, in 3rd place and more than double the 4.7% they got in 2013 while the CDU are down at least 2.5% and the SPD at least 3.7% relative to last time?williamglenn said:
Going by the comments in City AM, the Article 50 period itself will start to get uncomfortable for the UK very quickly.FF43 said:
It will be interesting to see how this pans out. I don't think the EU can stall indefinitely assuming the UK keeps pushing for further separation, but they should be able to spin it out if they play it competently. And they have the means to make the interim period uncomfortable for the UK if they choose.williamglenn said:
The piece by Leonid Bershidsky I posted below concurs with your long-standing view:FF43 said:
The fudge won't be in the outcomes. The fudge is that this is a negotiation at all. It's more a sorting out of things, at least from the EU's point of view. What happens to the aspidistra, type of thing. We think it's important a deal is seen to be made.foxinsoxuk said:
David Allen Green did a good thread on this. For better or worse there is very little flexibility in the EU position, we really have to decide if it works for us or whether we prefer to have WTO Brexit.nigel4england said:
Of course he is, remember the golden rule:RobD said:
EU = good
UK = bad
The same childish rubbish day after day, and I am afraid OGH sets the tone.
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/901886935735705600
It will last as long as it takes the U.K. and the EU to agree on a new trade deal; otherwise, a transition is pointless. But the U.K. cannot dictate the pace of the negotiations, and the EU isn't interested in dictating it as long as the transition period preserves current arrangements. The EU, after all, didn't initiate Brexit; it's happy for the U.K. to stay on current terms, and if it loses its vote, too, that'll only be a bonus.
I think the government were sanguine about conceding on Barnier's initial sequencing because they still held onto the view that nothing would happen until after the German elections anyway. Once the German elections have been and gone, and the UK's position is weaker than it was before we started, then panic will really set in.
Brexit's Black Wednesday moment could come before Christmas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_German_federal_election,_20170 -
17 million people voted to Leave the EU, more than voted for Blair in 1997 or Cameron in 2015 or indeed for anything in British history, that is not a 'smallish minority' by any definition. Though I would agree it is likely once we do leave a Leaver, either Davis or more likely Boris in my view, will succeed Remainer May to be the first PM of post-Brexit UKFF43 said:
The government has not done a single thing since the referendum to prepare people, the country and systems for the dislocation and for the real personal sacrifices they will face to "regain sovereignty", which is really just making a different set of choices from what one half of the country wants. While a smallish minority of people might be OK with "what it takes", most haven't shown any particular rush to the barricades. I take that to mean people aren't that desperate to throw everything away.HYUFD said:
No we don't want continuity, that is the whole point ardent Remainers don't understand, we want to end free movement in the short term and regain sovereignty in the long term. If we wanted continuity we would never have voted to Leave the EU in the first placeFF43 said:
If we want continuity, and we almost certainly do want it, it will be on EU terms. They own the system.philiph said:
So the EU aren't really negotiating, just presenting the internally agreed position for us to accept as a fait accompli.
That will work well.
Excuse me if in future I take any protestations from them about lack of progress with contempt and reply with 'negotiation is not presentation of you position and implementation'
The most to the point summary I have read recently is in this piece in Bloomberg today: Britain Must Accept the Hard Truth About Brexit. -The interim deal it desperately needs is one it won't like.
There's no point in seeking a transitional deal that will be almost as contentious and complicated as the final one. To be done quickly, it has to be simple. More than that, it also has to put the U.K. in a plainly disadvantageous position.
[...]
The greatest need of all is to prepare the U.K. for disappointment. Even on the view that Brexit might ultimately succeed, of a so-called cliff-edge Brexit.
That's not a very sellable proposition to a public that has bought into Brexit giving back control. At the same time the "interim" arrangement and maintaining continuity are all that matter to us in these negotiations.0 -
Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.0 -
In getting the wrong end of the stick you have made FF43's point perfectly. How many of the 17 million are OK with "what it takes"?HYUFD said:
17 million people voted to Leave the EU, more than voted for Blair in 1997 or Cameron in 2015 or indeed for anything in British history, that is not a 'smallish minority' by any definition. Though I would agree it is likely once we do leave a Leaver, either Davis or more likely Boris in my view, will succeed Remainer May to be the first PM of post-Brexit UKFF43 said:The government has not done a single thing since the referendum to prepare people, the country and systems for the dislocation and for the real personal sacrifices they will face to "regain sovereignty", which is really just making a different set of choices from what one half of the country wants. While a smallish minority of people might be OK with "what it takes", most haven't shown any particular rush to the barricades. I take that to mean people aren't that desperate to throw everything away.
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I think this is his intention this week.geoffw said:Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.
Sooner or later European Business is going to get involved banging heads together. 250 billion of EU trade is a huge amount of employment in EU states and these business's, their shareholders, and financiers are not going to sit on the sidelines much longer.
Interesting that Jacob Rees Mogg seems to be increasing his support daily for PM as he becomes a cult figure. Just imagine Jacob Rees Morgan v Corbyn at PMQ's.
It would be box office0 -
JRM is box office all by himself.
.. and edited for the metric tonne!0 -
If the EU seek 100 billion exit bill, ECJ jurisdiction over EU citizens living in the UK, and unrestricted free movement into the UK that 17 million may well increasewilliamglenn said:
In getting the wrong end of the stick you have made FF43's point perfectly. How many of the 17 million are OK with "what it takes"?HYUFD said:
17 million people voted to Leave the EU, more than voted for Blair in 1997 or Cameron in 2015 or indeed for anything in British history, that is not a 'smallish minority' by any definition. Though I would agree it is likely once we do leave a Leaver, either Davis or more likely Boris in my view, will succeed Remainer May to be the first PM of post-Brexit UKFF43 said:The government has not done a single thing since the referendum to prepare people, the country and systems for the dislocation and for the real personal sacrifices they will face to "regain sovereignty", which is really just making a different set of choices from what one half of the country wants. While a smallish minority of people might be OK with "what it takes", most haven't shown any particular rush to the barricades. I take that to mean people aren't that desperate to throw everything away.
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What it takes to end free movement and reclaim lawmaking powers from Brussels and reduce payments to the EU you mean? The vast majority want all of that which is what they voted forwilliamglenn said:
In getting the wrong end of the stick you have made FF43's point perfectly. How many of the 17 million are OK with "what it takes"?HYUFD said:
17 million people voted to Leave the EU, more than voted for Blair in 1997 or Cameron in 2015 or indeed for anything in British history, that is not a 'smallish minority' by any definition. Though I would agree it is likely once we do leave a Leaver, either Davis or more likely Boris in my view, will succeed Remainer May to be the first PM of post-Brexit UKFF43 said:The government has not done a single thing since the referendum to prepare people, the country and systems for the dislocation and for the real personal sacrifices they will face to "regain sovereignty", which is really just making a different set of choices from what one half of the country wants. While a smallish minority of people might be OK with "what it takes", most haven't shown any particular rush to the barricades. I take that to mean people aren't that desperate to throw everything away.
0 -
First public poll of next Tory leader including JRM had JRM joint second with Davidson behind BorisBig_G_NorthWales said:
I think this is his intention this week.geoffw said:Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.
Sooner or later European Business is going to get involved banging heads together. 250 billion of EU trade is a huge amount of employment in EU states and these business's, their shareholders, and financiers are not going to sit on the sidelines much longer.
Interesting that Jacob Rees Mogg seems to be increasing his support daily for PM as he becomes a cult figure. Just imagine Jacob Rees Morgan v Corbyn at PMQ's.
It would be box office
Boris 16%
Davidson and JRM 6%
Hammond and Davis 5%
http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/independentbmg-poll-close-half-public-want-theresa-may-quit-2022/0 -
Because no deal is more damaging for the U.K. than it is for the EU.geoffw said:Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.0 -
We will leave the EU. That boat sailed in June last year. The more interesting question, and one you can 't easily bet on because the outcomes are going to be messy, long drawn out and very possibly inconclusive, is what does Leave the EU actually mean? One thing it means, I suspect, is that we will be more beholden to the EU outside of it than we were members, we will certainly have less influence internationally and while we might have more nominal control, we will also have less say over what actually happens.HYUFD said:
17 million people voted to Leave the EU, more than voted for Blair in 1997 or Cameron in 2015 or indeed for anything in British history, that is not a 'smallish minority' by any definition. Though I would agree it is likely once we do leave a Leaver, either Davis or more likely Boris in my view, will succeed Remainer May to be the first PM of post-Brexit UK
0 -
0
-
I beg to differ.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because no deal is more damaging for the U.K. than it is for the EU.geoffw said:Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.
0 -
Japan does not feature in the top 7 destinations for UK exports, a deal with them would be useful but if they want to deal with the EU first we can survive thatTheScreamingEagles said:Who could have foreseen this ?
https://twitter.com/StuartBonar/status/902254112498225152
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom0 -
ABCD goldfishTheScreamingEagles said:Who could have foreseen this ?
https://twitter.com/StuartBonar/status/9022541124982251520 -
Just like testing for the effect of drugs this political polling strikes me as shaded. For instance were the pollees also asked whether they thought Brexit would actually result in their or a family member in losing a job.0
-
You need to look at the Japanese FDI figures and the UK turnover of Japanese owned companiesHYUFD said:
Japan does not feature in the top 7 destinations for UK exports, a deal with them would be useful but if they want to deal with the EU first we can survive thatTheScreamingEagles said:Who could have foreseen this ?
https://twitter.com/StuartBonar/status/902254112498225152
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom0 -
Rec'd today:HYUFD said:
First public poll of next Tory leader including JRM had JRM joint second with Davidson behind BorisBig_G_NorthWales said:
I think this is his intention this week.geoffw said:Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.
Sooner or later European Business is going to get involved banging heads together. 250 billion of EU trade is a huge amount of employment in EU states and these business's, their shareholders, and financiers are not going to sit on the sidelines much longer.
Interesting that Jacob Rees Mogg seems to be increasing his support daily for PM as he becomes a cult figure. Just imagine Jacob Rees Morgan v Corbyn at PMQ's.
It would be box office
Boris 16%
Davidson and JRM 6%
Hammond and Davis 5%
http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/independentbmg-poll-close-half-public-want-theresa-may-quit-2022/
Dear Ishmael,
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You can show your support with a FREE "I'm Ready for Rees-Mogg" poster.
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Thank you for your continued support.
Sincerely,
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Co-founder, Ready for Rees-Mogg
0 -
One element which I believe you are ignoring is the political reaction to the growing realisation that this is likely to be the outcome. Even the most obtuse Leaver will get it at some point, and those who are closest to the front line, i.e. those in government and parliament, will be the first to do so. If they have an ounce of patriotism they will realise that this is not the path they should take their country down, no matter how humiliating a reversal may be.FF43 said:One thing it means, I suspect, is that we will be more beholden to the EU outside of it than we were members, we will certainly have less influence internationally and while we might have more nominal control, we will also have less say over what actually happens.
0 -
What it means in the shortterm is we leave the EU and EEA fully for a decade most likely, probably with no FTA apart from maybe a few bilateral agreements but control over Freedom of Movement. In the long term we may rejoin the EEA and EFTA (which we were members of before the EEC) but we will not rejoin the EU and I doubt longer term being an independent nation will have a negative position on our international position indeed it may indeed strengthen itFF43 said:
We will leave the EU. That boat sailed in June last year. The more interesting question, and one you can 't easily bet on because the outcomes are going to be messy, long drawn out and very possibly inconclusive, is what does Leave the EU actually mean? One thing it means, I suspect, is that we will be more beholden to the EU outside of it than we were members, we will certainly have less influence internationally and while we might have more nominal control, we will also have less say over what actually happens.HYUFD said:
17 million people voted to Leave the EU, more than voted for Blair in 1997 or Cameron in 2015 or indeed for anything in British history, that is not a 'smallish minority' by any definition. Though I would agree it is likely once we do leave a Leaver, either Davis or more likely Boris in my view, will succeed Remainer May to be the first PM of post-Brexit UK
0 -
The article is perfectly sensible and headlined in a way the pro EU FT hope to fit their agenda. Japan only confirms it cannot negotiate a trade deal until we are out of the EU which is common knowledgeTheScreamingEagles said:Who could have foreseen this ?
https://twitter.com/StuartBonar/status/9022541124982251520 -
On what basis? How is no deal more damaging for the EU?geoffw said:
I beg to differ.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because no deal is more damaging for the U.K. than it is for the EU.geoffw said:Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.0 -
Japan published a detailed paper last year in response to Brexit. They are not at all exciting by the 'opportunities' it presents.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The article is perfectly sensible and headlined in a way the pro EU FT hope to fit their agenda. Japan only confirms it cannot negotiate a trade deal until we are out of the EU which is common knowledgeTheScreamingEagles said:Who could have foreseen this ?
https://twitter.com/StuartBonar/status/902254112498225152
http://www.mofa.go.jp/files/000185466.pdf0 -
Desperate spinning brother!HYUFD said:
Japan does not feature in the top 7 destinations for UK exports, a deal with them would be useful but if they want to deal with the EU first we can survive thatTheScreamingEagles said:Who could have foreseen this ?
https://twitter.com/StuartBonar/status/902254112498225152
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom
Brexit = a calamity
Brexiteers = thickos0 -
How dare you quote patriotism as being in the EU is the only way to show it. You really are sadwilliamglenn said:
One element which I believe you are ignoring is the political reaction to the growing realisation that this is likely to be the outcome. Even the most obtuse Leaver will get it at some point, and those who are closest to the front line, i.e. those in government and parliament, will be the first to do so. If they have an ounce of patriotism they will realise that this is not the path they should take their country down, no matter how humiliating a reversal may be.FF43 said:One thing it means, I suspect, is that we will be more beholden to the EU outside of it than we were members, we will certainly have less influence internationally and while we might have more nominal control, we will also have less say over what actually happens.
0 -
The money for starters.Benpointer said:
On what basis? How is no deal more damaging for the EU?geoffw said:
I beg to differ.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because no deal is more damaging for the U.K. than it is for the EU.geoffw said:Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.
0 -
My dear friend, true patriotism is knowing and more importantly wanting what is best for your country.Big_G_NorthWales said:
How dare you quote patriotism as being in the EU is the only way to show it. You really are sadwilliamglenn said:
One element which I believe you are ignoring is the political reaction to the growing realisation that this is likely to be the outcome. Even the most obtuse Leaver will get it at some point, and those who are closest to the front line, i.e. those in government and parliament, will be the first to do so. If they have an ounce of patriotism they will realise that this is not the path they should take their country down, no matter how humiliating a reversal may be.FF43 said:One thing it means, I suspect, is that we will be more beholden to the EU outside of it than we were members, we will certainly have less influence internationally and while we might have more nominal control, we will also have less say over what actually happens.
0 -
I believe Nissan and Toyota have already committed to the UK post BrexitTheScreamingEagles said:
You need to look at the Japanese FDI figures and the UK turnover of Japanese owned companiesHYUFD said:
Japan does not feature in the top 7 destinations for UK exports, a deal with them would be useful but if they want to deal with the EU first we can survive thatTheScreamingEagles said:Who could have foreseen this ?
https://twitter.com/StuartBonar/status/902254112498225152
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom
https://www.ft.com/content/eabd6152-9c29-11e6-8324-be63473ce146
https://www.ft.com/content/1afaf414-b81f-11e5-b151-8e15c9a029fb0 -
You may well think Brexit is a calamity but insulting many million of ordinary people as 'thickos' says more about you than it does of them.murali_s said:
Desperate spinning brother!HYUFD said:
Japan does not feature in the top 7 destinations for UK exports, a deal with them would be useful but if they want to deal with the EU first we can survive thatTheScreamingEagles said:Who could have foreseen this ?
https://twitter.com/StuartBonar/status/902254112498225152
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom
Brexit = a calamity
Brexiteers = thickos0 -
Nissan and Toyota aren't the only Japanese companies/investors in the U.K.HYUFD said:
I believe Nissan and Toyota have already committed to the UK post BrexitTheScreamingEagles said:
You need to look at the Japanese FDI figures and the UK turnover of Japanese owned companiesHYUFD said:
Japan does not feature in the top 7 destinations for UK exports, a deal with them would be useful but if they want to deal with the EU first we can survive thatTheScreamingEagles said:Who could have foreseen this ?
https://twitter.com/StuartBonar/status/902254112498225152
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom
https://www.ft.com/content/eabd6152-9c29-11e6-8324-be63473ce146
https://www.ft.com/content/1afaf414-b81f-11e5-b151-8e15c9a029fb
Yet no one knows what those assurances are.0 -
The key point, though, is that Japan and others will only consider a trade arrangement with the UK in the context of their own prior arrangement with the EU and the UK's arrangement with the EU. This means that being in the EU customs area and general system is beneficial to our arrangements with third countries, rather than the impediment it is claimed to be by our government.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The article is perfectly sensible and headlined in a way the pro EU FT hope to fit their agenda. Japan only confirms it cannot negotiate a trade deal until we are out of the EU which is common knowledgeTheScreamingEagles said:Who could have foreseen this ?
https://twitter.com/StuartBonar/status/9022541124982251520 -
Yes I know, same old broken recordmurali_s said:
Desperate spinning brother!HYUFD said:
Japan does not feature in the top 7 destinations for UK exports, a deal with them would be useful but if they want to deal with the EU first we can survive thatTheScreamingEagles said:Who could have foreseen this ?
https://twitter.com/StuartBonar/status/902254112498225152
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom
Brexit = a calamity
Brexiteers = thickos0 -
And how do you know what is best for our Country.murali_s said:
My dear friend, true patriotism is knowing and more importantly wanting what is best for your country.Big_G_NorthWales said:
How dare you quote patriotism as being in the EU is the only way to show it. You really are sadwilliamglenn said:
One element which I believe you are ignoring is the political reaction to the growing realisation that this is likely to be the outcome. Even the most obtuse Leaver will get it at some point, and those who are closest to the front line, i.e. those in government and parliament, will be the first to do so. If they have an ounce of patriotism they will realise that this is not the path they should take their country down, no matter how humiliating a reversal may be.FF43 said:One thing it means, I suspect, is that we will be more beholden to the EU outside of it than we were members, we will certainly have less influence internationally and while we might have more nominal control, we will also have less say over what actually happens.
The Country has voted to leave and only time will tell whether it is right or wrong. Leavers and Remainers, no doubt, both see themselves as patriots0 -
They are probably the most significant in terms of jobsTheScreamingEagles said:
Nissan and Toyota aren't the only Japanese companies/investors in the U.K.HYUFD said:
I believe Nissan and Toyota have already committed to the UK post BrexitTheScreamingEagles said:
You need to look at the Japanese FDI figures and the UK turnover of Japanese owned companiesHYUFD said:
Japan does not feature in the top 7 destinations for UK exports, a deal with them would be useful but if they want to deal with the EU first we can survive thatTheScreamingEagles said:Who could have foreseen this ?
https://twitter.com/StuartBonar/status/902254112498225152
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom
https://www.ft.com/content/eabd6152-9c29-11e6-8324-be63473ce146
https://www.ft.com/content/1afaf414-b81f-11e5-b151-8e15c9a029fb
Yet no one knows what those assurances are.0 -
The ironic thing is both myself and BigG voted Remain, it seems we are having to defend Brexit in the complete absence of Leavers here tonight, rather amusingBig_G_NorthWales said:
And how do you know what is best for our Country.murali_s said:
My dear friend, true patriotism is knowing and more importantly wanting what is best for your country.Big_G_NorthWales said:
How dare you quote patriotism as being in the EU is the only way to show it. You really are sadwilliamglenn said:
One element which I believe you are ignoring is the political reaction to the growing realisation that this is likely to be the outcome. Even the most obtuse Leaver will get it at some point, and those who are closest to the front line, i.e. those in government and parliament, will be the first to do so. If they have an ounce of patriotism they will realise that this is not the path they should take their country down, no matter how humiliating a reversal may be.FF43 said:One thing it means, I suspect, is that we will be more beholden to the EU outside of it than we were members, we will certainly have less influence internationally and while we might have more nominal control, we will also have less say over what actually happens.
The Country has voted to leave and only time will tell whether it is right or wrong. Leavers and Remainers, no doubt, both see themselves as patriots0 -
Tongue in cheek brother!Big_G_NorthWales said:
You may well think Brexit is a calamity but insulting many million of ordinary people as 'thickos' says more about you than it does of them.murali_s said:
Desperate spinning brother!HYUFD said:
Japan does not feature in the top 7 destinations for UK exports, a deal with them would be useful but if they want to deal with the EU first we can survive thatTheScreamingEagles said:Who could have foreseen this ?
https://twitter.com/StuartBonar/status/902254112498225152
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom
Brexit = a calamity
Brexiteers = thickos
Isn't there a decent correlation between the propensity to vote Leave and educational attainment? I could be wrong though.
Anyway, the key issue of the referendum was "there are too many f*ckng foreigners in this country. That fact alone drive millions to vote Leave.0 -
Given the net UK EU contribution is <0.1% of the EU GDP, I think they'd find a way to cover it somehow.geoffw said:
The money for starters.Benpointer said:
On what basis? How is no deal more damaging for the EU?geoffw said:
I beg to differ.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because no deal is more damaging for the U.K. than it is for the EU.geoffw said:Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.
0 -
I thought I read on here that labelling Remain or Leave people with insults was banned?murali_s said:
Desperate spinning brother!HYUFD said:
Japan does not feature in the top 7 destinations for UK exports, a deal with them would be useful but if they want to deal with the EU first we can survive thatTheScreamingEagles said:Who could have foreseen this ?
https://twitter.com/StuartBonar/status/902254112498225152
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom
Brexit = a calamity
Brexiteers = thickos
Asking for a friend.
0 -
Winners and whiners.0
-
Toyota was quite explicit. Brexit will come with a cost, the size of which is uncertain. They will ensure profitability by squeezing the wage bill and other input costs. They don't have a lot of choice. Unlike Nissan/Renault they don't have a number of alternative car plants on the EU mainland to switch production to.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nissan and Toyota aren't the only Japanese companies/investors in the U.K.HYUFD said:
I believe Nissan and Toyota have already committed to the UK post BrexitTheScreamingEagles said:
You need to look at the Japanese FDI figures and the UK turnover of Japanese owned companiesHYUFD said:
Japan does not feature in the top 7 destinations for UK exports, a deal with them would be useful but if they want to deal with the EU first we can survive thatTheScreamingEagles said:Who could have foreseen this ?
https://twitter.com/StuartBonar/status/902254112498225152
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom
https://www.ft.com/content/eabd6152-9c29-11e6-8324-be63473ce146
https://www.ft.com/content/1afaf414-b81f-11e5-b151-8e15c9a029fb
Yet no one knows what those assurances are.0 -
:-) :-) :-) So why should the Commission be getting so upset with us leaving?Benpointer said:
Given the net UK EU contribution isgeoffw said:
The money for starters.Benpointer said:
On what basis? How is no deal more damaging for the EU?geoffw said:
I beg to differ.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because no deal is more damaging for the U.K. than it is for the EU.geoffw said:Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.
0 -
While only around 10% of over 50s went to university or did A Levels around 40% of under 30s did so that distorts the figures on educational attainment when older voters were the most likely to vote Leavemurali_s said:
Tongue in cheek brother!Big_G_NorthWales said:
You may well think Brexit is a calamity but insulting many million of ordinary people as 'thickos' says more about you than it does of them.murali_s said:
Desperate spinning brother!HYUFD said:
Japan does not feature in the top 7 destinations for UK exports, a deal with them would be useful but if they want to deal with the EU first we can survive thatTheScreamingEagles said:Who could have foreseen this ?
https://twitter.com/StuartBonar/status/902254112498225152
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom
Brexit = a calamity
Brexiteers = thickos
Isn't there a decent correlation between the propensity to vote Leave and educational attainment? I could be wrong though.
Anyway, the key issue of the referendum was "there are too many f*ckng foreigners in this country. That fact alone drive millions to vote Leave.
0 -
I've been mulling over the weird GE17 campaign.
What strikes me most about it - in hindsight - is how untargeted all of the campaigns were.
IIRC, on the final day of campaigning both Farron and May were in Solihull of all places. Labour's targeting in Scotland was abysmal.
It was as if the national campaigns had little idea of where seats were competitive.
There were a few constituencies where each of the parties did a brilliant job of identifying & getting out their vote, but in general, Con, Lab & LD (+SNP) campaigns were really amateur.0 -
I absolutely reject the reference to foreigners as perceived by UKIP. The immigrants working in this Country enrich all of us and are very necessary for the economy. However, controlling immigration is essential to ensure we are not flooded with cheap labour pressing down on wages of ordinary workers.murali_s said:
Tongue in cheek brother!Big_G_NorthWales said:
You may well think Brexit is a calamity but insulting many million of ordinary people as 'thickos' says more about you than it does of them.murali_s said:
Desperate spinning brother!HYUFD said:
Japan does not feature in the top 7 destinations for UK exports, a deal with them would be useful but if they want to deal with the EU first we can survive thatTheScreamingEagles said:Who could have foreseen this ?
https://twitter.com/StuartBonar/status/902254112498225152
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom
Brexit = a calamity
Brexiteers = thickos
Isn't there a decent correlation between the propensity to vote Leave and educational attainment? I could be wrong though.
Anyway, the key issue of the referendum was "there are too many f*ckng foreigners in this country. That fact alone drive millions to vote Leave.
The remain side do seem to think they are more intellectual and in some cases, sadly, superior to those who have not obtained academic degrees but when I ran my business those I took on straight from UNI were hopeless and I achieved the best results from my employees who showed a good general level of education but more importantly common sense and drive.
The debate needs to rid itself of the Brexiteer and Remoaner sneers and see that both sides have good arguments and it is a very difficult decision to implement.
However, I just do not see staying in as an answer0 -
Clash of the Titans.
Katie Hopkins and Jolyon Maugham in Twitter clash
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/9022711127924776970 -
You might just as well say the Economy/Education/Defence/Housing is the biggest concern at 88%!HYUFD said:
Not wrong actually, 41% say the EU/Brexit is a concern and 28% immigration, giving a combined 69%, 18% more than the 50% who say the NHS is a concern.MikeSmithson said:
Straw-clutchingHYUFD said:
Cameron won 306 seats in 2010, 12 fewer than the 318 May won in 2017. Cameron's 2015 campaign was far more effective than his 2010 campaignMikeSmithson said:
Cameron's Tories had net gains of 96 seats at GE2010. Somewhat better than TMay on June 8thGIN1138 said:
Yeah but who knew Theresa could come out with an even worse campaign than Cameron managed in 2010?surbiton said:
Remember when the PB Tories were looking forward towards a 150+ majorityGIN1138 said:
Remember when Mike used to tell us nobody cared about the EU?HYUFD said:Given some of those Labour Leave voters may feel they have already lost a job to an EU migrant though it depends how the question is phrased
WRONG AGAIN.HYUFD said:
Biggest issue is the NHS
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/nhs-and-brexit-remain-biggest-issues-facing-country0 -
Corbyn would adjust his attack. For example, repeatedly asking the Mogg whether his nanny has given permission to do whatever. (JRH took his nanny when he was electioneering in Fife). It would be like shooting apples in a barrel.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think this is his intention this week.geoffw said:Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.
Sooner or later European Business is going to get involved banging heads together. 250 billion of EU trade is a huge amount of employment in EU states and these business's, their shareholders, and financiers are not going to sit on the sidelines much longer.
Interesting that Jacob Rees Mogg seems to be increasing his support daily for PM as he becomes a cult figure. Just imagine Jacob Rees Morgan v Corbyn at PMQ's.
It would be box office0 -
No, all you two are doing is defending the Conservative Party as you always do.HYUFD said:
The ironic thing is both myself and BigG voted Remain, it seems we are having to defend Brexit in the complete absence of Leavers here tonight, rather amusing
The Conservative party isn't the party of LEAVE and doesn't speak for all LEAVE voters.
0 -
No-one is winning here brother. The country is losing and as a patriot I feel sad about that.geoffw said:Winners and whiners.
The country is on the verge on jumping straight out the window on the 30th floor of the block. We can all say we can only learn by experience. The tragedy is that we will all be dead.
Goodnight.0 -
Meanwhile Edinburgh Council is literally blowing up their council taxpayers' hard-earned.0
-
You may think that but he is becoming a cult figure as had Corbyn.OchEye said:
Corbyn would adjust his attack. For example, repeatedly asking the Mogg whether his nanny has given permission to do whatever. (JRH took his nanny when he was electioneering in Fife). It would be like shooting apples in a barrel.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think this is his intention this week.geoffw said:Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.
Sooner or later European Business is going to get involved banging heads together. 250 billion of EU trade is a huge amount of employment in EU states and these business's, their shareholders, and financiers are not going to sit on the sidelines much longer.
Interesting that Jacob Rees Mogg seems to be increasing his support daily for PM as he becomes a cult figure. Just imagine Jacob Rees Morgan v Corbyn at PMQ's.
It would be box office
Also I think Jacob would return fire very well - he has plenty to attack in Corbyn0 -
Maybe but it is the only party carrying out the leave processstodge said:
No, all you two are doing is defending the Conservative Party as you always do.HYUFD said:
The ironic thing is both myself and BigG voted Remain, it seems we are having to defend Brexit in the complete absence of Leavers here tonight, rather amusing
The Conservative party isn't the party of LEAVE and doesn't speak for all LEAVE voters.0 -
I plan on still being alive in two years time.murali_s said:
No-one is winning here brother. The country is losing and as a patriot I feel sad about that.geoffw said:Winners and whiners.
The country is on the verge on jumping straight out the window on the 30th floor of the block. We can all say we can only learn by experience. The tragedy is that we will all be dead.
Goodnight.0 -
If you are explaining your gags in brackets, you are losing, and so would Corbyn be if he couldn't do better than that. Fish in a barrel btw.OchEye said:
Corbyn would adjust his attack. For example, repeatedly asking the Mogg whether his nanny has given permission to do whatever. (JRH took his nanny when he was electioneering in Fife). It would be like shooting apples in a barrel.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think this is his intention this week.geoffw said:Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.
Sooner or later European Business is going to get involved banging heads together. 250 billion of EU trade is a huge amount of employment in EU states and these business's, their shareholders, and financiers are not going to sit on the sidelines much longer.
Interesting that Jacob Rees Mogg seems to be increasing his support daily for PM as he becomes a cult figure. Just imagine Jacob Rees Morgan v Corbyn at PMQ's.
It would be box office0 -
Desperate spinning from murali!murali_s said:
Desperate spinning brother!HYUFD said:
Japan does not feature in the top 7 destinations for UK exports, a deal with them would be useful but if they want to deal with the EU first we can survive thatTheScreamingEagles said:Who could have foreseen this ?
https://twitter.com/StuartBonar/status/902254112498225152
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom
Brexit = a calamity
Brexiteers = thickos0 -
Through its own choice and volition it has excluded large parts of political society from the process. Instead of trying to create a united and coherent national view of what LEAVE means, the Conservatives have resorted to in-fighting, negative briefing and playing their usual trick of acting like ferrets in a sack.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe but it is the only party carrying out the leave processstodge said:
No, all you two are doing is defending the Conservative Party as you always do.HYUFD said:
The ironic thing is both myself and BigG voted Remain, it seems we are having to defend Brexit in the complete absence of Leavers here tonight, rather amusing
The Conservative party isn't the party of LEAVE and doesn't speak for all LEAVE voters.
They even wasted everyone's time, effort and £25 million holding a pointless vanity project to try to enhance the authority of the Blessed Theresa but that blew up in their face and we now have to hand over our future to them.
I wouldn't trust May, Davis, Johnson and Fox as far as somebody else could throw them.
0 -
https://twitter.com/Fight4UK/status/736322308743258112williamglenn said:
As Columbo would say, "There's just one more thing..." The government isn't making any practical preparations for such an outcome which should tell you that even if their political behaviour points in that direction, that cannot be the real goal.Beverley_C said:
The government are going for WTO Brexit. It is the only goal that fits their current behaviour.viewcode said:
I put it more succinctly months ago.foxinsoxuk said:David Allen Green did a good thread on this. For better or worse there is very little flexibility in the EU position, we really have to decide if it works for us or whether we prefer to have WTO Brexit.
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/901886935735705600
When They've Worked Out What The Deal Is They Will Let Us Know.0 -
Shooting apples in a barrel would be easier than shooting fish. Fish dodge and you have to allow for refraction at the water/air interface.Ishmael_Z said:
If you are explaining your gags in brackets, you are losing, and so would Corbyn be if he couldn't do better than that. Fish in a barrel btw.OchEye said:
Corbyn would adjust his attack. For example, repeatedly asking the Mogg whether his nanny has given permission to do whatever. (JRH took his nanny when he was electioneering in Fife). It would be like shooting apples in a barrel.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think this is his intention this week.geoffw said:Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.
Sooner or later European Business is going to get involved banging heads together. 250 billion of EU trade is a huge amount of employment in EU states and these business's, their shareholders, and financiers are not going to sit on the sidelines much longer.
Interesting that Jacob Rees Mogg seems to be increasing his support daily for PM as he becomes a cult figure. Just imagine Jacob Rees Morgan v Corbyn at PMQ's.
It would be box office0 -
So who would you truststodge said:
Through its own choice and volition it has excluded large parts of political society from the process. Instead of trying to create a united and coherent national view of what LEAVE means, the Conservatives have resorted to in-fighting, negative briefing and playing their usual trick of acting like ferrets in a sack.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe but it is the only party carrying out the leave processstodge said:
No, all you two are doing is defending the Conservative Party as you always do.HYUFD said:
The ironic thing is both myself and BigG voted Remain, it seems we are having to defend Brexit in the complete absence of Leavers here tonight, rather amusing
The Conservative party isn't the party of LEAVE and doesn't speak for all LEAVE voters.
They even wasted everyone's time, effort and £25 million holding a pointless vanity project to try to enhance the authority of the Blessed Theresa but that blew up in their face and we now have to hand over our future to them.
I wouldn't trust May, Davis, Johnson and Fox as far as somebody else could throw them.0 -
I didn't think a barrel of fish had any water in it.foxinsoxuk said:
Shooting apples in a barrel would be easier than shooting fish. Fish dodge and you have to allow for refraction at the water/air interface.Ishmael_Z said:
If you are explaining your gags in brackets, you are losing, and so would Corbyn be if he couldn't do better than that. Fish in a barrel btw.OchEye said:
Corbyn would adjust his attack. For example, repeatedly asking the Mogg whether his nanny has given permission to do whatever. (JRH took his nanny when he was electioneering in Fife). It would be like shooting apples in a barrel.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think this is his intention this week.geoffw said:Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.
Sooner or later European Business is going to get involved banging heads together. 250 billion of EU trade is a huge amount of employment in EU states and these business's, their shareholders, and financiers are not going to sit on the sidelines much longer.
Interesting that Jacob Rees Mogg seems to be increasing his support daily for PM as he becomes a cult figure. Just imagine Jacob Rees Morgan v Corbyn at PMQ's.
It would be box office0 -
Usually icephiliph said:
I didn't think a barrel of fish had any water in it.foxinsoxuk said:
Shooting apples in a barrel would be easier than shooting fish. Fish dodge and you have to allow for refraction at the water/air interface.Ishmael_Z said:
If you are explaining your gags in brackets, you are losing, and so would Corbyn be if he couldn't do better than that. Fish in a barrel btw.OchEye said:
Corbyn would adjust his attack. For example, repeatedly asking the Mogg whether his nanny has given permission to do whatever. (JRH took his nanny when he was electioneering in Fife). It would be like shooting apples in a barrel.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think this is his intention this week.geoffw said:Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.
Sooner or later European Business is going to get involved banging heads together. 250 billion of EU trade is a huge amount of employment in EU states and these business's, their shareholders, and financiers are not going to sit on the sidelines much longer.
Interesting that Jacob Rees Mogg seems to be increasing his support daily for PM as he becomes a cult figure. Just imagine Jacob Rees Morgan v Corbyn at PMQ's.
It would be box office0 -
There cannot be a coherent national view of what Leave means because Remainers want Leave to mean basically almost exactly the same as the EU, ie full single market and customs union membership, while Leavers want to see clear returns of sovereignty, an end to free movement and reductions of payments to the EU, which means departure from the single market and customs union, at least in the short term. Given Leave won it will inevitably ultimately be a Brexit more suited to what Leavers want even if Remainers may not be happy with that.stodge said:
Through its own choice and volition it has excluded large parts of political society from the process. Instead of trying to create a united and coherent national view of what LEAVE means, the Conservatives have resorted to in-fighting, negative briefing and playing their usual trick of acting like ferrets in a sack.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe but it is the only party carrying out the leave processstodge said:
No, all you two are doing is defending the Conservative Party as you always do.HYUFD said:
The ironic thing is both myself and BigG voted Remain, it seems we are having to defend Brexit in the complete absence of Leavers here tonight, rather amusing
The Conservative party isn't the party of LEAVE and doesn't speak for all LEAVE voters.
They even wasted everyone's time, effort and £25 million holding a pointless vanity project to try to enhance the authority of the Blessed Theresa but that blew up in their face and we now have to hand over our future to them.
I wouldn't trust May, Davis, Johnson and Fox as far as somebody else could throw them.0 -
-
If Labour were to seriously want to run on an economic platform which might appeal to Conservative voters, they would first need to ditch Corbyn and McDonell, and then apologise in the most grovelling fashion for ever being naive and cynical enough for putting them (and Diane Abbott, FFS!) forward as the core of a potential government.Pong said:It looks to me like the 31% of Con leavers answering "No I would not" are the voters who will deliver a majority Labour government at the next election.
Labour need to relentlessly pound the tories for "making the country poorer"0 -
-
-
None are as interconnected as Brexit and immigrationBenpointer said:
You might just as well say the Economy/Education/Defence/Housing is the biggest concern at 88%!HYUFD said:
Not wrong actually, 41% say the EU/Brexit is a concern and 28% immigration, giving a combined 69%, 18% more than the 50% who say the NHS is a concern.MikeSmithson said:
Straw-clutchingHYUFD said:
Cameron won 306 seats in 2010, 12 fewer than the 318 May won in 2017. Cameron's 2015 campaign was far more effective than his 2010 campaignMikeSmithson said:
Cameron's Tories had net gains of 96 seats at GE2010. Somewhat better than TMay on June 8thGIN1138 said:
Yeah but who knew Theresa could come out with an even worse campaign than Cameron managed in 2010?surbiton said:
Remember when the PB Tories were looking forward towards a 150+ majorityGIN1138 said:
Remember when Mike used to tell us nobody cared about the EU?HYUFD said:Given some of those Labour Leave voters may feel they have already lost a job to an EU migrant though it depends how the question is phrased
WRONG AGAIN.HYUFD said:
Biggest issue is the NHS
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/nhs-and-brexit-remain-biggest-issues-facing-country0 -
Hopefully will be resolved peacefully or the Japanese can intercept it(though would resolve the FTA with Japan issue)TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
williamglenn said:
That could be very serious. Two years ago we went on a cruise from Vancouver to Beijing via Northern Japan, Vladivostok, South Korea, and China and the remarkable feature was just how close these Countries are relatively speaking. Also as we sailed from Vladivostok along the North Korean coast it felt strangely cold and uninvitingwilliamglenn said:0 -
What would be the point of shooting dead fish?philiph said:
I didn't think a barrel of fish had any water in it.foxinsoxuk said:
Shooting apples in a barrel would be easier than shooting fish. Fish dodge and you have to allow for refraction at the water/air interface.Ishmael_Z said:
If you are explaining your gags in brackets, you are losing, and so would Corbyn be if he couldn't do better than that. Fish in a barrel btw.OchEye said:
Corbyn would adjust his attack. For example, repeatedly asking the Mogg whether his nanny has given permission to do whatever. (JRH took his nanny when he was electioneering in Fife). It would be like shooting apples in a barrel.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think this is his intention this week.geoffw said:Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.
Sooner or later European Business is going to get involved banging heads together. 250 billion of EU trade is a huge amount of employment in EU states and these business's, their shareholders, and financiers are not going to sit on the sidelines much longer.
Interesting that Jacob Rees Mogg seems to be increasing his support daily for PM as he becomes a cult figure. Just imagine Jacob Rees Morgan v Corbyn at PMQ's.
It would be box office0 -
The same person might then usefully take Michel Barrnier, and the EU27 prime ministers, aside, and point out that without a comprehensive trade deal, the UK has precisely zero incentive, and of course no legal liability, to pay a single euro as an exit fee.viewcode said:I don't think any goal fits their current behavior.
When a close relative was dying, I was thrashing about trying to work out timetables and the doctor had to take me aside and point out gently that this person was dying, dying quickly, and that there was nothing to do. I used to know a divorce lawyer and she told me about the point where you have to tell them that they can't stay married to somebody who doesn't want to be married to them. The UK Government has not yet hit these points and is oscillating between begging ("deep and special relationship") and anger ("stubborn and unreasonable"). Sooner or later it would be better if a neutral friend took Davies aside and quietly explained his position.0 -
@SkyNewsEditor: #BREAKING Japanese media says the missile fired by #NorthKorea has now passed over Japan. Question is...where is it due to land?!0
-
Guam is not far away is itScott_P said:@SkyNewsEditor: #BREAKING Japanese media says the missile fired by #NorthKorea has now passed over Japan. Question is...where is it due to land?!
0 -
North Korea has just launched another one of its many many missiles, passing over Japan just before 10pm UK time.
Kim hates being out of the news.0 -
I'm not so sure... There are of course many voters (Conservative and otherwise) who cannot stand Corbyn, but there will also be many don't have that strong view and who will be open to persuasion by a combination of attractive Labour policies and the Tories' poor recent record in government.Richard_Nabavi said:
If Labour were to seriously want to run on an economic platform which might appeal to Conservative voters, they would first need to ditch Corbyn and McDonell, and then apologise in the most grovelling fashion for ever being naive and cynical enough for putting them (and Diane Abbott, FFS!) forward as the core of a potential government.Pong said:It looks to me like the 31% of Con leavers answering "No I would not" are the voters who will deliver a majority Labour government at the next election.
Labour need to relentlessly pound the tories for "making the country poorer"
You might well say that the Labour promises are illusionary or that the Tories are not doing too badly given the circumstances but I think that there's a strong possibility Labour can win (and take votes from the Tories) without ditching Corbyn.0 -
In which case, there'd be no point in shooting them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Usually icephiliph said:
I didn't think a barrel of fish had any water in it.foxinsoxuk said:
Shooting apples in a barrel would be easier than shooting fish. Fish dodge and you have to allow for refraction at the water/air interface.Ishmael_Z said:
If you are explaining your gags in brackets, you are losing, and so would Corbyn be if he couldn't do better than that. Fish in a barrel btw.OchEye said:
Corbyn would adjust his attack. For example, repeatedly asking the Mogg whether his nanny has given permission to do whatever. (JRH took his nanny when he was electioneering in Fife). It would be like shooting apples in a barrel.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think this is his intention this week.geoffw said:Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.
Sooner or later European Business is going to get involved banging heads together. 250 billion of EU trade is a huge amount of employment in EU states and these business's, their shareholders, and financiers are not going to sit on the sidelines much longer.
Interesting that Jacob Rees Mogg seems to be increasing his support daily for PM as he becomes a cult figure. Just imagine Jacob Rees Morgan v Corbyn at PMQ's.
It would be box office0 -
It may be a possibility but equally in these strange times PM Jacob Rees Mogg could materialize !!!!!!!!!Benpointer said:
I'm not so sure... There are of course many voters (Conservative and otherwise) who cannot stand Corbyn, but there will also be many don't have that strong view and who will be open to persuasion by a combination of attractive Labour policies and the Tories' poor recent record in government.Richard_Nabavi said:
If Labour were to seriously want to run on an economic platform which might appeal to Conservative voters, they would first need to ditch Corbyn and McDonell, and then apologise in the most grovelling fashion for ever being naive and cynical enough for putting them (and Diane Abbott, FFS!) forward as the core of a potential government.Pong said:It looks to me like the 31% of Con leavers answering "No I would not" are the voters who will deliver a majority Labour government at the next election.
Labour need to relentlessly pound the tories for "making the country poorer"
You might well say that the Labour promises are illusionary or that the Tories are not doing too badly given the circumstances but I think that there's a strong possibility Labour can win (and take votes from the Tories) without ditching Corbyn.0 -
42% still voted against Labour when Corbyn was leading them, more than have ever voted for the Tories since 1992 when 41% voted against KinnockBenpointer said:
I'm not so sure... There are of course many voters (Conservative and otherwise) who cannot stand Corbyn, but there will also be many don't have that strong view and who will be open to persuasion by a combination of attractive Labour policies and the Tories' poor recent record in government.Richard_Nabavi said:
If Labour were to seriously want to run on an economic platform which might appeal to Conservative voters, they would first need to ditch Corbyn and McDonell, and then apologise in the most grovelling fashion for ever being naive and cynical enough for putting them (and Diane Abbott, FFS!) forward as the core of a potential government.Pong said:It looks to me like the 31% of Con leavers answering "No I would not" are the voters who will deliver a majority Labour government at the next election.
Labour need to relentlessly pound the tories for "making the country poorer"
You might well say that the Labour promises are illusionary or that the Tories are not doing too badly given the circumstances but I think that there's a strong possibility Labour can win (and take votes from the Tories) without ditching Corbyn.0 -
Though apparently the shockwave of a bullet hitting a barrel would kill fish even without a direct hit...foxinsoxuk said:
What would be the point of shooting dead fish?philiph said:
I didn't think a barrel of fish had any water in it.foxinsoxuk said:
Shooting apples in a barrel would be easier than shooting fish. Fish dodge and you have to allow for refraction at the water/air interface.Ishmael_Z said:
If you are explaining your gags in brackets, you are losing, and so would Corbyn be if he couldn't do better than that. Fish in a barrel btw.OchEye said:
Corbyn would adjust his attack. For example, repeatedly asking the Mogg whether his nanny has given permission to do whatever. (JRH took his nanny when he was electioneering in Fife). It would be like shooting apples in a barrel.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think this is his intention this week.geoffw said:Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.
Sooner or later European Business is going to get involved banging heads together. 250 billion of EU trade is a huge amount of employment in EU states and these business's, their shareholders, and financiers are not going to sit on the sidelines much longer.
Interesting that Jacob Rees Mogg seems to be increasing his support daily for PM as he becomes a cult figure. Just imagine Jacob Rees Morgan v Corbyn at PMQ's.
It would be box office
http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/mythbusters-database/shooting-killing-fish-barrel/0 -
None, other than in a metaphorical phrase designed to convey the message that something is so easy you can't fail.foxinsoxuk said:
What would be the point of shooting dead fish?philiph said:
I didn't think a barrel of fish had any water in it.foxinsoxuk said:
Shooting apples in a barrel would be easier than shooting fish. Fish dodge and you have to allow for refraction at the water/air interface.Ishmael_Z said:
If you are explaining your gags in brackets, you are losing, and so would Corbyn be if he couldn't do better than that. Fish in a barrel btw.OchEye said:
Corbyn would adjust his attack. For example, repeatedly asking the Mogg whether his nanny has given permission to do whatever. (JRH took his nanny when he was electioneering in Fife). It would be like shooting apples in a barrel.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think this is his intention this week.geoffw said:Why doesn't DD tell MB that we'll only consider the money once the rest of the deal is agreed?
i) If it's a good deal for us we'd obviously be happy to talk turkey.
ii) If not then we embrace WTO and they can go whistle.
So (i) is win-win, and (ii) is lose-lose. Simples.
Perhaps he has put this to them, which might explain why he appears sanguine.
Sooner or later European Business is going to get involved banging heads together. 250 billion of EU trade is a huge amount of employment in EU states and these business's, their shareholders, and financiers are not going to sit on the sidelines much longer.
Interesting that Jacob Rees Mogg seems to be increasing his support daily for PM as he becomes a cult figure. Just imagine Jacob Rees Morgan v Corbyn at PMQ's.
It would be box office0 -
Yes, but only ahead of a GE... not afterwards imo.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It may be a possibility but equally in these strange times PM Jacob Rees Mogg could materialize !!!!!!!!!Benpointer said:
I'm not so sure... There are of course many voters (Conservative and otherwise) who cannot stand Corbyn, but there will also be many don't have that strong view and who will be open to persuasion by a combination of attractive Labour policies and the Tories' poor recent record in government.Richard_Nabavi said:
If Labour were to seriously want to run on an economic platform which might appeal to Conservative voters, they would first need to ditch Corbyn and McDonell, and then apologise in the most grovelling fashion for ever being naive and cynical enough for putting them (and Diane Abbott, FFS!) forward as the core of a potential government.Pong said:It looks to me like the 31% of Con leavers answering "No I would not" are the voters who will deliver a majority Labour government at the next election.
Labour need to relentlessly pound the tories for "making the country poorer"
You might well say that the Labour promises are illusionary or that the Tories are not doing too badly given the circumstances but I think that there's a strong possibility Labour can win (and take votes from the Tories) without ditching Corbyn.0
