politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As the BREXIT negotiations start in Brussels LAB take 3% lead
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With so many seats so tight, a butterfly flapping its wings in the Amazon could set in motion a chain of events where the SNP won six seats.calum said:
FWIW the Daily Record haven't published Scottish voting figures from last week's Survation poll. However, Survation used the data and forecasted 6 SNP gains !MarqueeMark said:
The trend is not their friend....williamglenn said:
Their second best ever GE and an absolute majority of Scottish seats?CarlottaVance said:
I expect that's why the Nationalists in Scotland had the worst result of any party in the recent GE......williamglenn said:
The UK was an entity in terminal political decline before we joined the EEC, and we're now back on the fast track to historical oblivion.Sean_F said:
I think that the very worst argument against Brexit is that the EU keeps the voters at bay. I don't like socialism, but if that's what people vote for, I'll have to suck it up.williamglenn said:
The red flag of Brexit. All those right-wing souverainistes agitating to implement Tony Benn and Michael Foot's agenda should face a terrible reckoning.rottenborough said:
Or indeed, lost them.0 -
Yoon arithmetic:williamglenn said:
Their second best ever GE and an absolute majority of Scottish seats?CarlottaVance said:
I expect that's why the Nationalists in Scotland had the worst result of any party in the recent GE......williamglenn said:
The UK was an entity in terminal political decline before we joined the EEC, and we're now back on the fast track to historical oblivion.Sean_F said:
I think that the very worst argument against Brexit is that the EU keeps the voters at bay. I don't like socialism, but if that's what people vote for, I'll have to suck it up.williamglenn said:
The red flag of Brexit. All those right-wing souverainistes agitating to implement Tony Benn and Michael Foot's agenda should face a terrible reckoning.rottenborough said:
In 2018 Celtic win the Scottish premier league by only 15 points, half the margin that they managed this year, 'The' Rangers (coincidentally the standard bearer for so many Yoon hopes & dreams) are second after coming third in 2017.
'Celtic have had the worst result of any team in this year's league, The Rangers are the real winners, Pedro is a genius etc, etc'
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The government needs to invest in development away from London. Whether the government builds new towns or refurbishes existing stock or even brings back the northern powerhouse guy, it needs to do something to address regional economic imbalances.edmundintokyo said:
It's not just non-UK immigrants living in shitty flat-share situations in London right now. People from all over the UK want to live there, and ambitious young people don't have any better options.kurtjester said:
Perhaps the UK should get a handle on immigration both legal and otherwise first? If people are sleeping 10 to a flat, it's highly likely they have no right to be here in the first place. Why on earth should we be concreting over the Green Belt to accommodate them.edmundintokyo said:
Where's the bad economic consequence on the housing market? The problem with the housing market is not enough supply to meet demand (because of the mad anti-construction Mary-Whitehouse-Meets-Brezhnev British planning system), so more people squeezing themselves into smaller places is helpful, no?MarqueeMark said:
If - as is being reported - Grenfell (and many other blocks in London and elsewhere) were being illegally sublet to multiple occupancy, then maybe Labour takes some of the blame, for that obvious bad economic consequence on the housing market? But I don't expect anyone in Labour to be putting their hands up to that one...SouthamObserver said:Yep, I do agree Labour made a very bad call politically. Whether it was a bad one economically is much more open to question.
Letting the market build new housing when the population grows isn't a mysteriously difficult problem. If you're really bothered about the green belt then you can let people build upwards as well; This is one of the big differences with Tokyo, which has also got a growing population, but it isn't resulting in silly rents.
Britain simply has too much government involvement in deciding who is allowed to build what where, and it's having all the same obvious, predictable consequences that excessive government control has on the Venezuelan toilet paper market.0 -
Blue_rog said:
O/T
Bloody Hell it's hot</blockquote
Not in our bit of the Canaries. And I paid good money to come here! And endured Stansted.
Booze is cheap, though!0 -
Nonsense.The changes that Attlee made formed the basis of consensual politics, shared by both Tory and Labour,that continued up until Margaret Thatcher declared class war in 1979.Have you forgotten the generations of people not having any money to pay for a doctor?Richard_Nabavi said:
I hope not, the Attlee government was an unmitigated disaster in terms of economics and industrial policy (nationalisation of road transport, for heaven's sake!). Indeed we are still very badly affected by it, in the unwieldy structure of the NHS.Sean_F said:
I imagine that people would have in mind a government like that of Clement Attlee, not Fidel Castro.SouthamObserver said:
Agreed. It's a meaningless question unless you ask people what they understand by the term "genuinely socialist". I bet it's not Cuba or the former Soviet Union.Richard_Nabavi said:
It would be interesting to ask the 43% which country they think most closely matches their idea of a 'genuinely socialist' government.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Borough, an alarming finding. I'm not sure the people of Venezuela would agree.
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Nearly on the M25. No sign of civil unrest as of yet.0
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That's not the EU, it's a committee of MEPs.rottenborough said:EU on encryption. Strongly supporting it. UK now at odds on this, but we might be leaving:
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/06/19/eu-proposals-ban-encryption-backdoors/0 -
True. My mistake.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's not the EU, it's a committee of MEPs.rottenborough said:EU on encryption. Strongly supporting it. UK now at odds on this, but we might be leaving:
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/06/19/eu-proposals-ban-encryption-backdoors/0 -
Phew .. at last now i can leave the keyboardGallowgate said:Don't worry guys, I'm ok at the moment!
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One thing Govt. could do right now would be to say that anybody would be guaranteed to get planning permission to build on their garden if it was for either a) social housing or b) property in the top two council tax bands.DecrepitJohnL said:
The government needs to invest in development away from London. Whether the government builds new towns or refurbishes existing stock or even brings back the northern powerhouse guy, it needs to do something to address regional economic imbalances.edmundintokyo said:
It's not just non-UK immigrants living in shitty flat-share situations in London right now. People from all over the UK want to live there, and ambitious young people don't have any better options.kurtjester said:
Perhaps the UK should get a handle on immigration both legal and otherwise first? If people are sleeping 10 to a flat, it's highly likely they have no right to be here in the first place. Why on earth should we be concreting over the Green Belt to accommodate them.edmundintokyo said:
Where's the bad economic consequence on the housing market? The problem with the housing market is not enough supply to meet demand (because of the mad anti-construction Mary-Whitehouse-Meets-Brezhnev British planning system), so more people squeezing themselves into smaller places is helpful, no?MarqueeMark said:
If - as is being reported - Grenfell (and many other blocks in London and elsewhere) were being illegally sublet to multiple occupancy, then maybe Labour takes some of the blame, for that obvious bad economic consequence on the housing market? But I don't expect anyone in Labour to be putting their hands up to that one...SouthamObserver said:Yep, I do agree Labour made a very bad call politically. Whether it was a bad one economically is much more open to question.
Letting the market build new housing when the population grows isn't a mysteriously difficult problem. If you're really bothered about the green belt then you can let people build upwards as well; This is one of the big differences with Tokyo, which has also got a growing population, but it isn't resulting in silly rents.
Britain simply has too much government involvement in deciding who is allowed to build what where, and it's having all the same obvious, predictable consequences that excessive government control has on the Venezuelan toilet paper market.
After all, might as well flog it - Corbyn's only going to tax it anyway....0 -
Get a grip Mr Morris, you sound like you're beginning to believe your own side's spin. Labour's manifesto was mainstream 1980s social democracy. Would pass as normal politics anywhere else.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, perhaps. But Corbyn's closer to Castro than Attlee.
Where any parallel with Fidel Castro can be drawn is beyond me. It's this sort of hyperbolic nonsense that lost you votes two weeks ago because frankly people aren't as stupid as the dead tree press likes to think.0 -
Thank God for that. Our thoughts are with you. It's the uncertainty of not knowing you're OK.Gallowgate said:Nearly on the M25. No sign of civil unrest as of yet.
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Felix
Calm down. Heat getting to you? I'm following the graphic on the threader – if you have an issue with the change numbers pick it up with Mike. I'm sure there is a good reason for them.0 -
Oh my, Prince Philip is going to be so angry when he reads this.
https://twitter.com/BBCAfrica/status/8756710869601812480 -
Quite right. Shades of the PB Tories calling Ed Miliband a marxist for his energy cap policy – which was then duly adopted by that well known Commie, Theresa May.Monksfield said:
Get a grip Mr Morris, you sound like you're beginning to believe your own side's spin. Labour's manifesto was mainstream 1980s social democracy. Would pass as normal politics anywhere else.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, perhaps. But Corbyn's closer to Castro than Attlee.
Where any parallel with Fidel Castro can be drawn is beyond me. It's this sort of hyperbolic nonsense that lost you votes two weeks ago because frankly people aren't as stupid as the dead tree press likes to think.0 -
You are partly right, in that the decline of the UK which was exacerbated by the post-war consensus wasn't reversed until Maggie came into power and transformed us from the 'sick man of Europe' to one of the most succcessful European economies. Even so, many of the changes introduced by the Attlee government were, thank goodness, reversed pretty pronto, including the looniest of all, which is the one I mentioned.volcanopete said:Nonsense.The changes that Attlee made formed the basis of consensual politics, shared by both Tory and Labour,that continued up until Margaret Thatcher declared class war in 1979.Have you forgotten the generations of people not having any money to pay for a doctor?
As for people not being able to pay for doctors, every single party standing in the 1945 election was committed to introducing free healthcare - building on work done by the wartime coalition under a Conservative PM. The problem was that the Attlee government implemented that aim (very controversially at the time) by means of a monolithic nationalised industry; no other country in the Western world made that mistake, and it is one that haunts us to this day.0 -
IMHO the last time the UK government was as inept as this was the Suez crisis.
Governments in between have done a lot of stuff neither they nor the rest of the country can be proud of, but none of them have made such a blinkered and overweening horlicks of so many things at the same time.0 -
Stay safe...Gallowgate said:Nearly on the M25. No sign of civil unrest as of yet.
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No! Soviet Communism didn't work in the Soviet Union and it won't work in Britain. The government doesn't need to decide where people should live and invest in development there. It needs to let people build houses where they want to live. They want to live in London. There's plenty of room to build, London is almost entirely low-rise.DecrepitJohnL said:
The government needs to invest in development away from London. Whether the government builds new towns or refurbishes existing stock or even brings back the northern powerhouse guy, it needs to do something to address regional economic imbalances.edmundintokyo said:
It's not just non-UK immigrants living in shitty flat-share situations in London right now. People from all over the UK want to live there, and ambitious young people don't have any better options.kurtjester said:
Perhaps the UK should get a handle on immigration both legal and otherwise first? If people are sleeping 10 to a flat, it's highly likely they have no right to be here in the first place. Why on earth should we be concreting over the Green Belt to accommodate them.edmundintokyo said:
Where's the bad economic consequence on the housing market? The problem with the housing market is not enough supply to meet demand (because of the mad anti-construction Mary-Whitehouse-Meets-Brezhnev British planning system), so more people squeezing themselves into smaller places is helpful, no?MarqueeMark said:
If - as is being reported - Grenfell (and many other blocks in London and elsewhere) were being illegally sublet to multiple occupancy, then maybe Labour takes some of the blame, for that obvious bad economic consequence on the housing market? But I don't expect anyone in Labour to be putting their hands up to that one...SouthamObserver said:Yep, I do agree Labour made a very bad call politically. Whether it was a bad one economically is much more open to question.
Letting the market build new housing when the population grows isn't a mysteriously difficult problem. If you're really bothered about the green belt then you can let people build upwards as well; This is one of the big differences with Tokyo, which has also got a growing population, but it isn't resulting in silly rents.
Britain simply has too much government involvement in deciding who is allowed to build what where, and it's having all the same obvious, predictable consequences that excessive government control has on the Venezuelan toilet paper market.0 -
FPT
Ian Dale said:
'1979-Callaghan 269 seats, resigned. 1992-Kinnock 271 seats, resigned. 2017-Corbyn 262 seats, claims victory & orders the winner to resign'
Such ignorance! Callaghan did not resign in 1979 following his election defeat. He continued as party leader until November 1980 when Foot beat Healey to become his successor. Moroeover, Kinnock did not resign in 1987 despite gaining only 20 seats to bring Labour up to 229.
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It is not just the UK, Sanders has a 10% lead over Trump in the latest US poll, Melenchon had a reasonable performance in France, Spain has Podemos, Greece has Syriza etc. However once socialists get in people quickly change their minds, in Greece the conservative New Democracy party now has a clear lead in pollswilliamglenn said:
The red flag of Brexit. All those right-wing souverainistes agitating to implement Tony Benn and Michael Foot's agenda should face a terrible reckoning.rottenborough said:0 -
It took Cameron and Clegg five days to form the coalition and the agreement therein.
It is now ten days since Mrs May announced her DUP alliance plans and nothing.....
#JustSaying0 -
Except it wasn't adopted by Theresa May.Bobajob_PB said:Quite right. Shades of the PB Tories calling Ed Miliband a marxist for his energy cap policy – which was then duly adopted by that well known Commie, Theresa May.
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How much of it is votes for a particular thing, as opposed to votes against the status quo?HYUFD said:
It is not just the UK, Sanders has a 10% lead over Trump in the latest US poll, Melenchon had a reasonable performance in France, Spain has Podemos, Greece has Syriza etc. However once socialists get in people quickly change their minds, in Greece the conservative New Democracy party now has a clear lead in pollswilliamglenn said:
The red flag of Brexit. All those right-wing souverainistes agitating to implement Tony Benn and Michael Foot's agenda should face a terrible reckoning.rottenborough said:0 -
Something similar enough was. We gave up the centre ground of economic policy as soon as she reheated those shitty Ed Miliband ideas.Richard_Nabavi said:
Except it wasn't adopted by Theresa May.Bobajob_PB said:Quite right. Shades of the PB Tories calling Ed Miliband a marxist for his energy cap policy – which was then duly adopted by that well known Commie, Theresa May.
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"According to some apartment builders quoted in The Australian newspaper, every residential tower block built in Melbourne over the past 20 years incorporates the cladding."
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/australia-in-scramble-to-strip-towers-0qbp5jzmb0 -
There is plenty of evidence that Corbyn, McDonnell and Milne are not mainstream social democrats. Many who voted Labour are ignorant of that truth or believe that they will be constrained in power or thought that there was no realistic prospect of a Labour majority. I also believe that many assumed that the attacks on the leadership's beliefs was a classic red scare. I wish it was. On the other hand there is a reversal of the normal situation in that the leadership are way left of the majority of supporters and have yet to build a large scale extra-parliamentary movement. I also suspect that Corbyn although an ideologically fixated individual may lack the steel needed. A Corbyn government would be dangerous waters though.Monksfield said:
Get a grip Mr Morris, you sound like you're beginning to believe your own side's spin. Labour's manifesto was mainstream 1980s social democracy. Would pass as normal politics anywhere else.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, perhaps. But Corbyn's closer to Castro than Attlee.
Where any parallel with Fidel Castro can be drawn is beyond me. It's this sort of hyperbolic nonsense that lost you votes two weeks ago because frankly people aren't as stupid as the dead tree press likes to think.0 -
It was spectacularly bad messaging, certainly, and one of a number of similar blunders.MaxPB said:Something similar enough was. We gave up the centre ground of economic policy as soon as she reheated those shitty Ed Miliband ideas.
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Yes, there are differences if you are being deeply pedantic. But we have been here many times before!Richard_Nabavi said:
Except it wasn't adopted by Theresa May.Bobajob_PB said:Quite right. Shades of the PB Tories calling Ed Miliband a marxist for his energy cap policy – which was then duly adopted by that well known Commie, Theresa May.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/why-theresa-mays-1970s-style-energy-price-caps-wont-work/#0 -
Good luck getting people to accept living in high rise accommodation after last week.edmundintokyo said:
No! Soviet Communism didn't work in the Soviet Union and it won't work in Britain. The government doesn't need to decide where people should live and invest in development there. It needs to let people build houses where they want to live. They want to live in London. There's plenty of room to build, London is almost entirely low-rise.DecrepitJohnL said:
The government needs to invest in development away from London. Whether the government builds new towns or refurbishes existing stock or even brings back the northern powerhouse guy, it needs to do something to address regional economic imbalances.edmundintokyo said:
It's not just non-UK immigrants living in shitty flat-share situations in London right now. People from all over the UK want to live there, and ambitious young people don't have any better options.kurtjester said:
Perhaps the UK should get a handle on immigration both legal and otherwise first? If people are sleeping 10 to a flat, it's highly likely they have no right to be here in the first place. Why on earth should we be concreting over the Green Belt to accommodate them.edmundintokyo said:
Where's the bad economic consequence on the housing market? The problem with the housing market is not enough supply to meet demand (because of the mad anti-construction Mary-Whitehouse-Meets-Brezhnev British planning system), so more people squeezing themselves into smaller places is helpful, no?MarqueeMark said:
If - as is being reported - Grenfell (and many other blocks in London and elsewhere) were being illegally sublet to multiple occupancy, then maybe Labour takes some of the blame, for that obvious bad economic consequence on the housing market? But I don't expect anyone in Labour to be putting their hands up to that one...SouthamObserver said:Yep, I do agree Labour made a very bad call politically. Whether it was a bad one economically is much more open to question.
Letting the market build new housing when the population grows isn't a mysteriously difficult problem. If you're really bothered about the green belt then you can let people build upwards as well; This is one of the big differences with Tokyo, which has also got a growing population, but it isn't resulting in silly rents.
Britain simply has too much government involvement in deciding who is allowed to build what where, and it's having all the same obvious, predictable consequences that excessive government control has on the Venezuelan toilet paper market.0 -
Should a current MP be doing that?isam said:The next national treasure?
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/8767523781537955840 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
It took Cameron and Clegg five days to form the coalition and the agreement therein.
It is now ten days since Mrs May announced her DUP alliance plans and nothing.....
#JustSaying
#NoSurrenderToTheDUP0 -
Chuka Umunna @ChukaUmunna
About to go on @theJeremyVine show on @BBCRadio2 being hosted this week by my friend @Ed_Miliband
So we have a labour MP going on a show hosting by...a labour MP? hmm0 -
I am really not being pedantic. The differences go to the heart of the matter: Ed Miliband was, apparently in all seriousness, proposing to cap energy prices, irrespective of world market prices. That was absolutely bonkers by any standard. Theresa May was proposing to correct a bug in the regulated semi-monopoly market, which is the tendency of the companies to exploit those who aren't savvy enough to switch tariffs. Completely different.Bobajob_PB said:Yes, there are differences if you are being deeply pedantic. But we have been here many times before!
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/why-theresa-mays-1970s-style-energy-price-caps-wont-work/#0 -
He's currently playing Part Time Lover by Stevie Wonder.Slackbladder said:
Should a current MP be doing that?isam said:The next national treasure?
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/876752378153795584
Read into that what you will.0 -
It's the BBC. I doubt they care.Slackbladder said:
Should a current MP be doing that?isam said:The next national treasure?
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/8767523781537955840 -
I'm not advocating getting anyone to do anything. Let people do what they want to do.kurtjester said:
Good luck getting people to accept living in high rise accommodation after last week.
Britain has a high-rise / apartment phobia and no doubt the fire will make it worse (like plane crashes it makes the news because it's unusual and a killed a lot of people at once, but you're more likely to die in a car accident). But when it comes down to a judgement with a commuting time and a monthly rent number, you'll find housing consumers are not in fact all news-cycle-drooling morons.0 -
You've got IDS next week.....Slackbladder said:
Should a current MP be doing that?isam said:The next national treasure?
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/8767523781537955840 -
It doesn't require high-rise buildings to increase densities substantially compared with what we currently have in London.edmundintokyo said:I'm not advocating getting anyone to do anything. Let people do what they want to do.
Britain has a high-rise / apartment phobia and no doubt the fire will make it worse (like plane crashes it makes the news because it's unusual and a killed a lot of people at once, but you're more likely to die in a car accident). But when it comes down to a judgement with a commuting time and a monthly rent number, you'll find housing consumers are not in fact all news-cycle-drooling morons.0 -
If an MEP can have a radio show, why not?Slackbladder said:
Should a current MP be doing that?isam said:The next national treasure?
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/8767523781537955840 -
It is a clear anti establishment vote I think, just the same as those voting for Trump, Le Pen, Wilders, Golden Dawn, 5* and UKIP and Leave and indeed for the SNP before this month. It is all still a legacy of the 2008 Crash which led first to rising unemployment, then lower wages and austerity rather than any great enthusiasm for socialismSlackbladder said:
How much of it is votes for a particular thing, as opposed to votes against the status quo?HYUFD said:
It is not just the UK, Sanders has a 10% lead over Trump in the latest US poll, Melenchon had a reasonable performance in France, Spain has Podemos, Greece has Syriza etc. However once socialists get in people quickly change their minds, in Greece the conservative New Democracy party now has a clear lead in pollswilliamglenn said:
The red flag of Brexit. All those right-wing souverainistes agitating to implement Tony Benn and Michael Foot's agenda should face a terrible reckoning.rottenborough said:0 -
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Not only that but even if it was "the EU" individual EU member states have different views at a national level.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's not the EU, it's a committee of MEPs.rottenborough said:EU on encryption. Strongly supporting it. UK now at odds on this, but we might be leaving:
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/06/19/eu-proposals-ban-encryption-backdoors/
Germany is planning a new law giving authorities the right to look at private messages and fingerprint children as young as 6, the interior minister said on Wednesday after the last government gathering before a national election in September.
Ministers from central government and federal states said encrypted messaging services, such as WhatsApp and Signal, allow militants and criminals to evade traditional surveillance.
"We can't allow there to be areas that are practically outside the law," interior minister Thomas de Maiziere told reporters in the eastern town of Dresden.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-germany-security-encryption-idUKKBN1951VG0 -
Much of Europe has courtyard apartments of four or five floors. They work well.Richard_Nabavi said:
It doesn't require high-rise buildings to increase densities substantially compared with what we currently have in London.edmundintokyo said:I'm not advocating getting anyone to do anything. Let people do what they want to do.
Britain has a high-rise / apartment phobia and no doubt the fire will make it worse (like plane crashes it makes the news because it's unusual and a killed a lot of people at once, but you're more likely to die in a car accident). But when it comes down to a judgement with a commuting time and a monthly rent number, you'll find housing consumers are not in fact all news-cycle-drooling morons.0 -
And one of the worst features was the way it caved in to the doctors who essentially have remained private companies ever since milking the system for all it's worth.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are partly right, in that the decline of the UK which was exacerbated by the post-war consensus wasn't reversed until Maggie came into power and transformed us from the 'sick man of Europe' to one of the most succcessful European economies. Even so, many of the changes introduced by the Attlee government were, thank goodness, reversed pretty pronto, including the looniest of all, which is the one I mentioned.volcanopete said:Nonsense.The changes that Attlee made formed the basis of consensual politics, shared by both Tory and Labour,that continued up until Margaret Thatcher declared class war in 1979.Have you forgotten the generations of people not having any money to pay for a doctor?
As for people not being able to pay for doctors, every single party standing in the 1945 election was committed to introducing free healthcare - building on work done by the wartime coalition under a Conservative PM. The problem was that the Attlee government implemented that aim (very controversially at the time) by means of a monolithic nationalised industry; no other country in the Western world made that mistake, and it is one that haunts us to this day.0 -
IDS will have to turn up the sound ....MarqueeMark said:
You've got IDS next week.....Slackbladder said:
Should a current MP be doing that?isam said:The next national treasure?
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/8767523781537955840 -
The far left polling 44%. Christ.0
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If I was a Jew in the UK I would be extremely worried at the prospect of a Corbyn government.NorthofStoke said:
There is plenty of evidence that Corbyn, McDonnell and Milne are not mainstream social democrats. Many who voted Labour are ignorant of that truth or believe that they will be constrained in power or thought that there was no realistic prospect of a Labour majority. I also believe that many assumed that the attacks on the leadership's beliefs was a classic red scare. I wish it was. On the other hand there is a reversal of the normal situation in that the leadership are way left of the majority of supporters and have yet to build a large scale extra-parliamentary movement. I also suspect that Corbyn although an ideologically fixated individual may lack the steel needed. A Corbyn government would be dangerous waters though.Monksfield said:
Get a grip Mr Morris, you sound like you're beginning to believe your own side's spin. Labour's manifesto was mainstream 1980s social democracy. Would pass as normal politics anywhere else.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, perhaps. But Corbyn's closer to Castro than Attlee.
Where any parallel with Fidel Castro can be drawn is beyond me. It's this sort of hyperbolic nonsense that lost you votes two weeks ago because frankly people aren't as stupid as the dead tree press likes to think.0 -
Imagine the outrage if a sitting Tory MP hosted a BBC show.isam said:The next national treasure?
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/8767523781537955840 -
Nothing to see here.... no BBC bias......Slackbladder said:Chuka Umunna @ChukaUmunna
About to go on @theJeremyVine show on @BBCRadio2 being hosted this week by my friend @Ed_Miliband
So we have a labour MP going on a show hosting by...a labour MP? hmm0 -
You could alway turn over to Radio4 - to hear Andy Burnham extolling the wonders of his Manchester.....felix said:
Nothing to see here.... no BBC bias......Slackbladder said:Chuka Umunna @ChukaUmunna
About to go on @theJeremyVine show on @BBCRadio2 being hosted this week by my friend @Ed_Miliband
So we have a labour MP going on a show hosting by...a labour MP? hmm0 -
For those worried about the heat - it won't last. I've just been passed by two Devon County Council snow-ploughs......0
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This is also true. The government just needs to stop micro-managing and let people build what they like.AlastairMeeks said:
Much of Europe has courtyard apartments of four or five floors. They work well.Richard_Nabavi said:
It doesn't require high-rise buildings to increase densities substantially compared with what we currently have in London.edmundintokyo said:I'm not advocating getting anyone to do anything. Let people do what they want to do.
Britain has a high-rise / apartment phobia and no doubt the fire will make it worse (like plane crashes it makes the news because it's unusual and a killed a lot of people at once, but you're more likely to die in a car accident). But when it comes down to a judgement with a commuting time and a monthly rent number, you'll find housing consumers are not in fact all news-cycle-drooling morons.0 -
While the SNP won't want advice from outsiders wasn't Salmond's original strategy to go for the softly softly catchy monkey approach. The end game of that strategy was to show the SNP Scottish gov't could run things very well on their own so independence was the next logical step. It nearly succeeded in 2014. A sustained period of good Scottish governance might give them another chance after both Brexit and its fallout have become fully apparent. That could well be not until 2024 - ten years since the previous one but a period most would think is acceptably long enough.CarlottaVance said:The Union tottering......
https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/8767452689973616640 -
Apologies for the delayed response. I've been away from my PC.surbiton said:
When you say "current", which year is that ? 2017, 2016, 2015 ?prh47bridge said:FPT
According to the World Bank we are the 5th largest economy in the world.Gallowgate said:
Source?malcolmg said:
Bit behind the times, we are down to 8th and on a downward trajectory, can Tories not just tell the truth.HYUFD said:
Except the UK is the 5th largest economy in the world not the 50th largest economy like Greece. It is though possible we may be in for the same round of elections, in 2012 there were two general elections in Greece which the conservative National Democracy narrowly won, in 2015 there were two general elections which the populist leftwing Syriza won and now the latest polls have National Democracy back in front in the polls againwilliamglenn said:
We're heading in a Greek trap, revolving government and all. The UK is facing a much more severe humiliation than Suez.FF43 said:I have to say I am getting seriously worried. They are all posturing on Brexit - Johnson, Davis and now the supposedly sensible one, Philip Hammond. On the Labour side you have Corbyn and Macdonnell who make it clear Brexit is just a bargaining chip for their advantage. Only Kier Starmer appears to be concerned about getting a decent Brexit arrangement, and no-one is paying HIM any attention.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/03/31/the-european-union-lays-out-a-greek-trap-for-the-united-kingdom/
According to the IMF we are the 9th largest economy in the world.
The difference between the two is that the World Bank use current exchange rates to convert each country's GDP to US Dollars whereas the IMF use PPP (purchasing power parity - in essence, how much stuff can you buy with this money).
Malcolm is completely wrong to say we are on a downward trajectory. I would imagine he thinks we have slipped from 5th to 9th. We haven't. In fact we are on an upwards trajectory. On World Bank figures we were the 6th largest economy in the world in 2010 and slipped to 7th in 2011 but are now the 5th largest. On IMF figures we were 9th from 2010 to the present.
For "current" I've used 2016 - the most recent year for which figures are available.
If we look at 2017, our GDP is expected to fall using exchange rates (i.e. World Bank approach) as the pound has fallen against the dollar. However, other countries are also suffering on this measure due to the strength of the dollar so we are projected to remain the 5th largest economy using exchange rate conversion.
Using PPP our GDP is expected to go up and we will still be the 9th largest economy.0 -
Didn't Ken Clarke used to host some (relatively obscure) jazz show?nunu said:
Imagine the outrage if a sitting Tory MP hosted a BBC show.isam said:The next national treasure?
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/8767523781537955840 -
-
Cities of London and Westminster #53!rottenborough said:0 -
More nonsense.All the Tories have done is create slum landlords,closed all our local railways and squandered our North Sea oil money on high unemployment in a class war against organised labour.felix said:
And one of the worst features was the way it caved in to the doctors who essentially have remained private companies ever since milking the system for all it's worth.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are partly right, in that the decline of the UK which was exacerbated by the post-war consensus wasn't reversed until Maggie came into power and transformed us from the 'sick man of Europe' to one of the most succcessful European economies. Even so, many of the changes introduced by the Attlee government were, thank goodness, reversed pretty pronto, including the looniest of all, which is the one I mentioned.volcanopete said:Nonsense.The changes that Attlee made formed the basis of consensual politics, shared by both Tory and Labour,that continued up until Margaret Thatcher declared class war in 1979.Have you forgotten the generations of people not having any money to pay for a doctor?
As for people not being able to pay for doctors, every single party standing in the 1945 election was committed to introducing free healthcare - building on work done by the wartime coalition under a Conservative PM. The problem was that the Attlee government implemented that aim (very controversially at the time) by means of a monolithic nationalised industry; no other country in the Western world made that mistake, and it is one that haunts us to this day.0 -
They probably think it's balanced on the grounds both are to the Right of Corbyn, and therefore they're reflecting the centre of public opinion.felix said:
Nothing to see here.... no BBC bias......Slackbladder said:Chuka Umunna @ChukaUmunna
About to go on @theJeremyVine show on @BBCRadio2 being hosted this week by my friend @Ed_Miliband
So we have a labour MP going on a show hosting by...a labour MP? hmm0 -
If the far-left and socialism are both polling in the mid 40's then that is because Conservatives have failed to articulate why they would be economically bad and what would be a popular alternative. You can't do that in the middle of an election campaign you have to did it week in week out.
Austerity forever is not an alternative.0 -
Afternoon all
Simple question - will the Queen's Speech be voted on on 21st June? I seem to remember hearing there would be votes on 28th/29th June but no business is scheduled in the House of Commons for those days.
Thanks!0 -
Most people in Britain dream of their own home (preferably detached) with a garden, not a flat.edmundintokyo said:
I'm not advocating getting anyone to do anything. Let people do what they want to do.kurtjester said:
Good luck getting people to accept living in high rise accommodation after last week.
Britain has a high-rise / apartment phobia and no doubt the fire will make it worse (like plane crashes it makes the news because it's unusual and a killed a lot of people at once, but you're more likely to die in a car accident). But when it comes down to a judgement with a commuting time and a monthly rent number, you'll find housing consumers are not in fact all news-cycle-drooling morons.0 -
Yet more victims of the EU Referendum. Cameron and his loopy Party have a lot to answer for.RobC said:
While the SNP won't want advice from outsiders wasn't Salmond's original strategy to go for the softly softly catchy monkey approach. The end game of that strategy was to show the SNP Scottish gov't could run things very well on their own so independence was the next logical step. It nearly succeeded in 2014. A sustained period of good Scottish governance might give them another chance after both Brexit and its fallout have become fully apparent. That could well be not until 2024 - ten years since the previous one but a period most would think is acceptably long enough.CarlottaVance said:The Union tottering......
https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/8767452689973616640 -
Simple, the DUP have said they'll vote for the Queen's Speech. Therefore, there are at least 328 votes in favour.calum said:0 -
Scottish independence is a dead letter surely.RobC said:
While the SNP won't want advice from outsiders wasn't Salmond's original strategy to go for the softly softly catchy monkey approach. The end game of that strategy was to show the SNP Scottish gov't could run things very well on their own so independence was the next logical step. It nearly succeeded in 2014. A sustained period of good Scottish governance might give them another chance after both Brexit and its fallout have become fully apparent. That could well be not until 2024 - ten years since the previous one but a period most would think is acceptably long enough.CarlottaVance said:The Union tottering......
https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/876745268997361664
If it's fiendishly complicated (indeed nigh on impossible) for the UK to detach from a trade bloc we've been part of for only 40 years, then how much harder than that must it surely be for Scotland to detach from a full political union it's been part of for 300 years?0 -
I know, but a lot of them also dream of owning a Lamborghini. Wisely, the government doesn't mandate all kinds of restrictions on the production of Ford Fiestas.Casino_Royale said:
Most people in Britain dream of their own home (preferably detached) with a garden, not a flat.edmundintokyo said:
I'm not advocating getting anyone to do anything. Let people do what they want to do.kurtjester said:
Good luck getting people to accept living in high rise accommodation after last week.
Britain has a high-rise / apartment phobia and no doubt the fire will make it worse (like plane crashes it makes the news because it's unusual and a killed a lot of people at once, but you're more likely to die in a car accident). But when it comes down to a judgement with a commuting time and a monthly rent number, you'll find housing consumers are not in fact all news-cycle-drooling morons.0 -
I think there are five days of debate, before the Queen's Speech is voted on.RoyalBlue said:Afternoon all
Simple question - will the Queen's Speech be voted on on 21st June? I seem to remember hearing there would be votes on 28th/29th June but no business is scheduled in the House of Commons for those days.
Thanks!0 -
Blimey Sean, we're safe in our beds for a few more weeks then .... after that I suppose we'll all have to take our chance in Gerrards Cross .... Saints preserve us ....Sean_F said:
Simple, the DUP have said they'll vote for the Queen's Speech. Therefore, there are at least 328 votes in favour.calum said:0 -
IDS is hosting the show next week.nunu said:
Imagine the outrage if a sitting Tory MP hosted a BBC show.isam said:The next national treasure?
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/8767523781537955840 -
I largely agree with you.edmundintokyo said:
I know, but a lot of them also dream of owning a Lamborghini. Wisely, the government doesn't mandate all kinds of restrictions on the production of Ford Fiestas.Casino_Royale said:
Most people in Britain dream of their own home (preferably detached) with a garden, not a flat.edmundintokyo said:
I'm not advocating getting anyone to do anything. Let people do what they want to do.kurtjester said:
Good luck getting people to accept living in high rise accommodation after last week.
Britain has a high-rise / apartment phobia and no doubt the fire will make it worse (like plane crashes it makes the news because it's unusual and a killed a lot of people at once, but you're more likely to die in a car accident). But when it comes down to a judgement with a commuting time and a monthly rent number, you'll find housing consumers are not in fact all news-cycle-drooling morons.
I'm just pointing out that the cultural norms of what represents a dream residence in the UK are different to those on the continent.0 -
IDS is hosting the same show next week.nunu said:
Imagine the outrage if a sitting Tory MP hosted a BBC show.isam said:The next national treasure?
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/8767523781537955840 -
No, there is usually six days of debate:RoyalBlue said:Afternoon all
Simple question - will the Queen's Speech be voted on on 21st June? I seem to remember hearing there would be votes on 28th/29th June but no business is scheduled in the House of Commons for those days.
Thanks!
http://www.parliament.uk/business/news/2016/may/mps-debate-the-2016-queens-speech/
This year, given the 'light' legislative program:
State Opening and the Queen's Speech
The State Opening of Parliament will take place on Wednesday 21 June following the general election on 8 June 2017.
The State Opening of Parliament marks the formal start of the parliamentary year and the Queen's Speech sets out the government’s agenda for the coming session, outlining proposed policies and legislation.
After the State Opening members of both Houses debate the content of the Queen’s Speech and agree an 'Address in Reply to Her Majesty’s Gracious Speech'. Each House continues the debate on the planned legislative programme for several days, looking at different subject areas.
The Queen's Speech is voted on by the Commons, but no vote is taken in the Lords.
http://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/general/start-of-a-new-parliament/#jump-link-50 -
IDS is doing it next week!nunu said:
Imagine the outrage if a sitting Tory MP hosted a BBC show.isam said:The next national treasure?
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/8767523781537955840 -
I've have thought all the Brexit bills will pass at 2nd reading over the next 2 years, unless HMG are very unlucky.Sean_F said:
Simple, the DUP have said they'll vote for the Queen's Speech. Therefore, there are at least 328 votes in favour.calum said:
It's report and committee stage where they are at risk of heavy amendment, from both the Commons and the Lords.
I expect several nail-biting votes at 3rd reading.0 -
Carving out a new sovereign state from another is something that has been done countless times. There is no precedent for leaving the EU, particularly while attempting to keep all the benefits.Alice_Aforethought said:
Scottish independence is a dead letter surely.RobC said:
While the SNP won't want advice from outsiders wasn't Salmond's original strategy to go for the softly softly catchy monkey approach. The end game of that strategy was to show the SNP Scottish gov't could run things very well on their own so independence was the next logical step. It nearly succeeded in 2014. A sustained period of good Scottish governance might give them another chance after both Brexit and its fallout have become fully apparent. That could well be not until 2024 - ten years since the previous one but a period most would think is acceptably long enough.CarlottaVance said:The Union tottering......
https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/876745268997361664
If it's fiendishly complicated (indeed nigh on impossible) for the UK to detach from a trade bloc we've been part of for only 40 years, then how much harder than that must it surely be for Scotland to detach from a full political union it's been part of for 300 years?0 -
Never underestimate the disk-jockeying skills of a quiet man.Scrapheap_as_was said:
IDS is hosting the show next week.nunu said:
Imagine the outrage if a sitting Tory MP hosted a BBC show.isam said:The next national treasure?
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/8767523781537955840 -
Just for fun, guess who will be in the same time slot next week? Give up? Already? How about IDS? Yes! That IDS.......felix said:
Nothing to see here.... no BBC bias......Slackbladder said:Chuka Umunna @ChukaUmunna
About to go on @theJeremyVine show on @BBCRadio2 being hosted this week by my friend @Ed_Miliband
So we have a labour MP going on a show hosting by...a labour MP? hmm0 -
Well, with leasing these days, plenty of people find a way to drive around in very fancy cars indeed. Fancier, dare I say, than their annual income might reasonably justify.edmundintokyo said:
I know, but a lot of them also dream of owning a Lamborghini. Wisely, the government doesn't mandate all kinds of restrictions on the production of Ford Fiestas.Casino_Royale said:
Most people in Britain dream of their own home (preferably detached) with a garden, not a flat.edmundintokyo said:
I'm not advocating getting anyone to do anything. Let people do what they want to do.kurtjester said:
Good luck getting people to accept living in high rise accommodation after last week.
Britain has a high-rise / apartment phobia and no doubt the fire will make it worse (like plane crashes it makes the news because it's unusual and a killed a lot of people at once, but you're more likely to die in a car accident). But when it comes down to a judgement with a commuting time and a monthly rent number, you'll find housing consumers are not in fact all news-cycle-drooling morons.0 -
Just to lighten the mood
Meanwhile in Syria... Russia announces USAF and RAF aircraft west of the Euphrates are now targets after the US shot down a Syrian jet.0 -
I'm outraged.tpfkar said:
IDS is doing it next week!nunu said:
Imagine the outrage if a sitting Tory MP hosted a BBC show.isam said:The next national treasure?
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/8767523781537955840 -
do you want out of the single market, Casino?Casino_Royale said:
I've have thought all the Brexit bills will pass at 2nd reading over the next 2 years, unless HMG are very unlucky.Sean_F said:
Simple, the DUP have said they'll vote for the Queen's Speech. Therefore, there are at least 328 votes in favour.calum said:
It's report and committee stage where they are at risk of heavy amendment, from both the Commons and the Lords.
I expect several nail-biting votes at 3rd reading.0 -
I hear Amber Rudd will be stepping in.Casino_Royale said:
Never underestimate the disk-jockeying skills of a quiet man.Scrapheap_as_was said:
IDS is hosting the show next week.nunu said:
Imagine the outrage if a sitting Tory MP hosted a BBC show.isam said:The next national treasure?
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/8767523781537955840 -
IDS next week, what could possibly go wrong...nunu said:
Imagine the outrage if a sitting Tory MP hosted a BBC show.isam said:The next national treasure?
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/8767523781537955840 -
Non-sequitors abound in Corbyn's Labour - a rational argument free zone.volcanopete said:
More nonsense.All the Tories have done is create slum landlords,closed all our local railways and squandered our North Sea oil money on high unemployment in a class war against organised labour.felix said:
And one of the worst features was the way it caved in to the doctors who essentially have remained private companies ever since milking the system for all it's worth.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are partly right, in that the decline of the UK which was exacerbated by the post-war consensus wasn't reversed until Maggie came into power and transformed us from the 'sick man of Europe' to one of the most succcessful European economies. Even so, many of the changes introduced by the Attlee government were, thank goodness, reversed pretty pronto, including the looniest of all, which is the one I mentioned.volcanopete said:Nonsense.The changes that Attlee made formed the basis of consensual politics, shared by both Tory and Labour,that continued up until Margaret Thatcher declared class war in 1979.Have you forgotten the generations of people not having any money to pay for a doctor?
As for people not being able to pay for doctors, every single party standing in the 1945 election was committed to introducing free healthcare - building on work done by the wartime coalition under a Conservative PM. The problem was that the Attlee government implemented that aim (very controversially at the time) by means of a monolithic nationalised industry; no other country in the Western world made that mistake, and it is one that haunts us to this day.0 -
So am I! They choose on an honest intelligent Labour person but for the Tories they choose a lying moron .TOPPING said:
I'm outraged.tpfkar said:
IDS is doing it next week!nunu said:
Imagine the outrage if a sitting Tory MP hosted a BBC show.isam said:The next national treasure?
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/8767523781537955840 -
It's a bad idea either way.Bobajob_PB said:
IDS is hosting the same show next week.nunu said:
Imagine the outrage if a sitting Tory MP hosted a BBC show.isam said:The next national treasure?
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/8767523781537955840 -
Ultimately, I think the UK has to have the power to design its own regulatory regime and the flexibility to alter it, yes.TOPPING said:
do you want out of the single market, Casino?Casino_Royale said:
I've have thought all the Brexit bills will pass at 2nd reading over the next 2 years, unless HMG are very unlucky.Sean_F said:
Simple, the DUP have said they'll vote for the Queen's Speech. Therefore, there are at least 328 votes in favour.calum said:
It's report and committee stage where they are at risk of heavy amendment, from both the Commons and the Lords.
I expect several nail-biting votes at 3rd reading.
I believe regulatory diversity to be a good thing.0 -
Pleased to see that Theresa May is visiting the Finsbury Park mosque.0
-
How dare you. He's not a liar.Roger said:
So am I! They choose on an honest intelligent Labour person but for the Tories they choose a lying moron .TOPPING said:
I'm outraged.tpfkar said:
IDS is doing it next week!nunu said:
Imagine the outrage if a sitting Tory MP hosted a BBC show.isam said:The next national treasure?
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/8767523781537955840 -
thxCasino_Royale said:
Ultimately, I think the UK has to have the power to design its own regulatory regime and the flexibility to alter it, yes.TOPPING said:
do you want out of the single market, Casino?Casino_Royale said:
I've have thought all the Brexit bills will pass at 2nd reading over the next 2 years, unless HMG are very unlucky.Sean_F said:
Simple, the DUP have said they'll vote for the Queen's Speech. Therefore, there are at least 328 votes in favour.calum said:
It's report and committee stage where they are at risk of heavy amendment, from both the Commons and the Lords.
I expect several nail-biting votes at 3rd reading.
I believe regulatory diversity to be a good thing.0 -
Exactly. Trump and Corbyn overcame much bigger problems. I don't see any compelling reason why she shouldn't last it out until the next election and then win it.surbiton said:
If May can survive 6 months, she can survive longer. Why should she be the sacrificial lamb ?Mortimer said:
She won't lead us into another election, for sure.MaxPB said:Surprised at how high the Tories are tbh, thought we'd be down in the mid 30s and Labour surging.
There is hope for us yet if we can get rid of May.
Keep her around till Brexit has happened, find a new leader, honeymoon period, intervene in housing market, witness 2020 Tory surge....0 -
0
-
She needs a voice coach.Recidivist said:
Exactly. Trump and Corbyn overcame much bigger problems. I don't see any compelling reason why she shouldn't last it out until the next election and then win it.surbiton said:
If May can survive 6 months, she can survive longer. Why should she be the sacrificial lamb ?Mortimer said:
She won't lead us into another election, for sure.MaxPB said:Surprised at how high the Tories are tbh, thought we'd be down in the mid 30s and Labour surging.
There is hope for us yet if we can get rid of May.
Keep her around till Brexit has happened, find a new leader, honeymoon period, intervene in housing market, witness 2020 Tory surge....0 -
She wont be fighting another election campaign, unless tories like opposition.Recidivist said:
Exactly. Trump and Corbyn overcame much bigger problems. I don't see any compelling reason why she shouldn't last it out until the next election and then win it.surbiton said:
If May can survive 6 months, she can survive longer. Why should she be the sacrificial lamb ?Mortimer said:
She won't lead us into another election, for sure.MaxPB said:Surprised at how high the Tories are tbh, thought we'd be down in the mid 30s and Labour surging.
There is hope for us yet if we can get rid of May.
Keep her around till Brexit has happened, find a new leader, honeymoon period, intervene in housing market, witness 2020 Tory surge....0 -
that seals it.
Montie calls for May to go = TMay must stay*
https://twitter.com/montie/status/876776911095115776
*for now0 -
They eat babies; they make people sleep with goats; they murder the disabled. It's a lengthy charge sheet.volcanopete said:
More nonsense.All the Tories have done is create slum landlords,closed all our local railways and squandered our North Sea oil money on high unemployment in a class war against organised labour.felix said:
And one of the worst features was the way it caved in to the doctors who essentially have remained private companies ever since milking the system for all it's worth.Richard_Nabavi said:
You are partly right, in that the decline of the UK which was exacerbated by the post-war consensus wasn't reversed until Maggie came into power and transformed us from the 'sick man of Europe' to one of the most succcessful European economies. Even so, many of the changes introduced by the Attlee government were, thank goodness, reversed pretty pronto, including the looniest of all, which is the one I mentioned.volcanopete said:Nonsense.The changes that Attlee made formed the basis of consensual politics, shared by both Tory and Labour,that continued up until Margaret Thatcher declared class war in 1979.Have you forgotten the generations of people not having any money to pay for a doctor?
As for people not being able to pay for doctors, every single party standing in the 1945 election was committed to introducing free healthcare - building on work done by the wartime coalition under a Conservative PM. The problem was that the Attlee government implemented that aim (very controversially at the time) by means of a monolithic nationalised industry; no other country in the Western world made that mistake, and it is one that haunts us to this day.0 -
The data in that table is inaccurate re- the % Tory majority in seats. In my own seat - Norwich North - the Tory majority was actually 1.1% - not 0.8%. Similarly Crabb's majority in Preseli Pembrokeshire is listed as 0.5% - whereas it was 0.8%.. Strangely that constituency is said to be located in the county of Dyfed - despite the fact that the latter ceased to exist 22 years ago!nunu said:
Cities of London and Westminster #53!rottenborough said:
I have only given two examples but all the data appears to be out by a similar margin.0
This discussion has been closed.