Anybody thinking there will be a general election in the next 5 years is deluded. Politics is about power, nothing but, Cameron and May foolishly rolled the dice and look what happened. There is not a chance the tories will relinquish power until 2022.
On here people are increasingly conflating what they want to happen with reality.
Reality is that the Tories are in a minority and some of their MPs care more about the EU than governing. As May or whoever has to make decisions the cracks will appear.
This also has a lot of truth in it.
Look at Oakshott and Ashcroft bigging up Graham Brady as a successor to May Only someone obsessed with the EU would even suggest that. There are far too many with their mindset in Conservative ranks
It is not as left field as you think.
Brady is hugely respected amongst the electorate for Tory leadership battles - I.e. Tory MPs.
He is also a communicator. Better than 75% of the cabinet.
I don't think he is interested in the job, mind.
It's a batshit mental suggestion. Theresa May is Prime Minister. The replacement has to be someone ready to serve on day one, especially since the electorate is not being consulted in the matter. Graham Brady has zero ministerial experience. Zilch. Nada. He's unknown by the general public and his sole qualification is that he's seen as "sound" on Brexit.
Only the most demented of Leavers could even contemplate installing such a choice. He'd be a 21st century Incitatus.
Nice, balanced and insulting as ever on Brexit related matters, I see.
If you're going to put forward bizarre suggestions, they're going to be treated with the ridicule they deserve.
Can you let us all know an ETA for when the Brexit Blinkers come off? It's all getting rather tiresome.
Brexit is just as much of a high-wire act as Theresa May's performance as PM. Remember when you thought she spoke for England and reached the parts the posh boys couldn't?
Urm, go and look at the vote shares...
So all those votes led to more seats than the posh boys right ?
Anybody thinking there will be a general election in the next 5 years is deluded. Politics is about power, nothing but, Cameron and May foolishly rolled the dice and look what happened. There is not a chance the tories will relinquish power until 2022.
On here people are increasingly conflating what they want to happen with reality.
Yeah but what about by-elections and defections etc.? in Oct 1974 Labour won an overall majority of 3 but it soon got whittled away and they had to make a pact with the Liberals to stay in power. After that collapsed they beaten in a vote of no confidence in March 1979.
John Major had a majority of 21 in 1992 but by 1997 he was running a minority government and had to do deals with the Ulstermen.
Defections? Are you seriously suggesting a tory will join Corbyn's labour?
See what I mean about people WANTING things to happen.
What if say half a dozen pro-EU MPs on Labour's right wing get fed up with Corbyn and form a new party? If we aren't getting a deal from the EU and on course to leave without one, one or two fanatical Tory remaindermen might be tempted to join them.
Boris & Gove."Once more unto the breach, dear friends ,once more ,". What they have done and are doing, is it really in the best interests of this country , or their own ego and importance.?
How cyncial! You clearly misunderstand the importance of this moment in history. With Brexit negotiations starting and the PM been seen as weak, there has never been a better time to position oneself as the next PM.
As Boris would say... "Well...ummmm... golly...... yes well.... phworrr... ummmm... yes well, of course....errr..."
@DavidL No people haven't gone mad. Given how Labour did during the GE, how can anyone be shocked to see Labour polling above 40%? Labour supporters by and large are not taking what the right wing press say seriously anymore, and Corbyn comes across as fairly reasonable on TV and in the media generally especially to a voter who does not know about his past history and statements. Plus, the government is in chaos and many are discontented with the situation right now and Labour is a way for many to register that discontent.
The gutter press's influence is gone.
The leftwing slanted gutter tv news is the new norm,ch4 far left,itv news left of centre,bbc left of centre and sky new left of centre to cuckoo.
Boris & Gove."Once more unto the breach, dear friends ,once more ,". What they have done and are doing, is it really in the best interests of this country , or their own ego and importance.?
One thing you can never accuse Conservative politicians of is putting their country before their careers.
Another government contract handed to American consultancies. Leaving aside the question of why the civil service cannot cope, does anyone imagine President Trump will be employing British management consultants any time soon?
Will US consultants be able to understand the finer points of what is acceptable in UK politics?
A deeply divided country that is not at ease with itself is David Cameron's legacy. A poorer country, diminished in the world and still deeply divided will be Theresa May's legacy. The Tories really have screwed the UK over.
We were in so much better shape under Gordon Brown, I agree.
Yep, it really is getting to that stage. That's how utterly useless this Tory government is.
Boris & Gove."Once more unto the breach, dear friends ,once more ,". What they have done and are doing, is it really in the best interests of this country , or their own ego and importance.?
How cyncial! You clearly misunderstand the importance of this moment in history. With Brexit negotiations starting and the PM been seen as weak, there has never been a better time to position oneself as the next PM.
As Boris would say... "Well...ummmm... golly...... yes well.... phworrr... ummmm... yes well, of course....errr..."
Statesmen in the making
Boris in Brussels: "Cripes, this deal Dave did was jolly good. Why didn't you explain this before? Let's cancel the rest of the negotiations and play wiff-waff."
Anybody thinking there will be a general election in the next 5 years is deluded. Politics is about power, nothing but, Cameron and May foolishly rolled the dice and look what happened. There is not a chance the tories will relinquish power until 2022.
On here people are increasingly conflating what they want to happen with reality.
Reality is that the Tories are in a minority and some of their MPs care more about the EU than governing. As May or whoever has to make decisions the cracks will appear.
This also has a lot of truth in it.
Look at Oakshott and Ashcroft bigging up Graham Brady as a successor to May Only someone obsessed with the EU would even suggest that. There are far too many with their mindset in Conservative ranks
It is not as left field as you think.
Brady is hugely respected amongst the electorate for Tory leadership battles - I.e. Tory MPs.
He is also a communicator. Better than 75% of the cabinet.
I don't think he is interested in the job, mind.
It's a batshit mental suggestion. Theresa May is Prime Minister. The replacement has to be someone ready to serve on day one, especially since the electorate is not being consulted in the matter. Graham Brady has zero ministerial experience. Zilch. Nada. He's unknown by the general public and his sole qualification is that he's seen as "sound" on Brexit.
Only the most demented of Leavers could even contemplate installing such a choice. He'd be a 21st century Incitatus.
I don't see much concern on here about the Finsbury Park incident. Not saying that the PB comments section is particularly important in the scheme of things, but if we expect 'moderate muslims' to disown ISIS etc, then non muslims need to be equally outraged by acts like these.
Yes, fair enough, though personally I don't think Muslims in general need to take a view on ISIS (the official bodies like MCB do), any more than on North Korea - default, backed up by polling, is to assume they think they're bonkers as everyone else does.
I don't think we really have the luxury of looking at the question in such philosophical terms. In the current atmosphere - not taking a stance is percieved as acquiescence.
There has been very little information in the media. I only heard the briefest of outlines and the police spokesman even refused to confirm that anyone died in the incident.
Anybody thinking there will be a general election in the next 5 years is deluded. Politics is about power, nothing but, Cameron and May foolishly rolled the dice and look what happened. There is not a chance the tories will relinquish power until 2022.
On here people are increasingly conflating what they want to happen with reality.
Reality is that the Tories are in a minority and some of their MPs care more about the EU than governing. As May or whoever has to make decisions the cracks will appear.
This also has a lot of truth in it.
Look at Oakshott and Ashcroft bigging up Graham Brady as a successor to May Only someone obsessed with the EU would even suggest that. There are far too many with their mindset in Conservative ranks
It is not as left field as you think.
Brady is hugely respected amongst the electorate for Tory leadership battles - I.e. Tory MPs.
He is also a communicator. Better than 75% of the cabinet.
I don't think he is interested in the job, mind.
It's a batshit mental suggestion. Theresa May is Prime Minister. The replacement has to be someone ready to serve on day one, especially since the electorate is not being consulted in the matter. Graham Brady has zero ministerial experience. Zilch. Nada. He's unknown by the general public and his sole qualification is that he's seen as "sound" on Brexit.
Only the most demented of Leavers could even contemplate installing such a choice. He'd be a 21st century Incitatus.
Nice, balanced and insulting as ever on Brexit related matters, I see.
If you're going to put forward bizarre suggestions, they're going to be treated with the ridicule they deserve.
Can you let us all know an ETA for when the Brexit Blinkers come off? It's all getting rather tiresome.
Says the man who thinks that Graham Brady for next Prime Minister is a good idea.
Ministerial experience isn't the issue. Leadership and a modicum of competence would do nicely thank you.
Eden had experience to spare as did Heath. Ditto for Callaghan and May. Blair and Cameron none.
Blair and Cameron were selected by the electorate.
A deeply divided country that is not at ease with itself is David Cameron's legacy. A poorer country, diminished in the world and still deeply divided will be Theresa May's legacy. The Tories really have screwed the UK over.
This is rubbish IMO. The EU referendum result did not "create" a deeply divided country, it was the consequence of it. Just as easy to make a case for Brown. Or Blair. Or, of course, Thatcher. The divide in the country is between the haves and the have nots. And it all comes down to the insoluble problem that is the property market.
Before the Referendum no one apart from a few fruitcakes gave the EU even a passing thought. It ranked somewhere below enviroment as a concern. After the Referendum it moved to top spot. What's more before the Referendum there were no losers. Now there are 17,000,000. A large percentage of whom are very angry.
Apart from the millions who have been negatively affected by the wage erosion and job insecurity caused by mass immigration. And the tens of millions who have been impacted by the breakdown of the social contract between employers and education in this country.
Yeh, apart from those, no losers at all.
When will wages start rising, Mortimer, and in what sectors? Immigration from the EU is now falling, as are wages. Go figure.
A surprisingly small Labour lead considering the headlines over the last few days. it would replace one hung parliament with another, and a better Tory campaign with older voters swinging behind Tories could win it for them.
A deeply divided country that is not at ease with itself is David Cameron's legacy. A poorer country, diminished in the world and still deeply divided will be Theresa May's legacy. The Tories really have screwed the UK over.
Agree with this. The Tories have always been split on Europe and Cameron dragged the rest of the country into it. If the referendum had not taken place, i doubt too many would be that bothered compared to other issues.
I could see it get to the stage, where enough Tory MP's vote with most Labour MP's to block legislation or budget measures, that the Government would throw in the towell. There is no majority in Parliament for a harder WTO version of Brexit.
There is no chance of Tories with DUP support governing for a full 5 year term. There is likely to be another election in 2018 or 19.
I can't really see this, Richard.
52% voted Leave whereas only 40% voted Conservative, averaged across the last two elections. Given that there are large numbers of Remainers among the Conservatives - most of the actual government, for example - it is clear that the Leave vote was not 40% Conservatives plus 12% other. It was non-partisan.
The difficulty we are now seeing in disentangling ourselves from the EU tells us pretty conclusively that we were a hair's breadth away from being unable to do so at all. Another few years, some other treaty, and we would in effect have conceded our independence without the people ever having been consulted.
It is pretty staggering that we could get to such a pass. I certainly don't know how the Queen got comfortable with it.
There are probably those who would have been quite happy with such a result. If so, their opportunity to explain why it was such a great idea was last June. That they couldn't sell it and the 52:48 result that ensued suggests strongly that we are all of us rather divided on this.
I say that as one who didn't actually vote because both sides' arguments were, frankly, poor.
A deeply divided country that is not at ease with itself is David Cameron's legacy. A poorer country, diminished in the world and still deeply divided will be Theresa May's legacy. The Tories really have screwed the UK over.
This is rubbish IMO. The EU referendum result did not "create" a deeply divided country, it was the consequence of it. Just as easy to make a case for Brown. Or Blair. Or, of course, Thatcher. The divide in the country is between the haves and the have nots. And it all comes down to the insoluble problem that is the property market.
Before the Referendum no one apart from a few fruitcakes gave the EU even a passing thought. It ranked somewhere below enviroment as a concern. After the Referendum it moved to top spot. What's more before the Referendum there were no losers. Now there are 17,000,000. A large percentage of whom are very angry.
Apart from the millions who have been negatively affected by the wage erosion and job insecurity caused by mass immigration. And the tens of millions who have been impacted by the breakdown of the social contract between employers and education in this country.
Yeh, apart from those, no losers at all.
When will wages start rising, Mortimer, and in what sectors? Immigration from the EU is now falling, as are wages. Go figure.
Wages will rise when there are more jobs than people. Nobody ever beat the market, its why doctors get paid more than postmen.
I don't see much concern on here about the Finsbury Park incident. Not saying that the PB comments section is particularly important in the scheme of things, but if we expect 'moderate muslims' to disown ISIS etc, then non muslims need to be equally outraged by acts like these.
Yes, fair enough, though personally I don't think Muslims in general need to take a view on ISIS (the official bodies like MCB do), any more than on North Korea - default, backed up by polling, is to assume they think they're bonkers as everyone else does.
I don't think we really have the luxury of looking at the question in such philosophical terms. In the current atmosphere - not taking a stance is percieved as acquiescence.
There has been very little information in the media. I only heard the briefest of outlines and the police spokesman even refused to confirm that anyone died in the incident.
As I understand it the man which died was already receiving medical attention, so what actually happened or what the driver did or didn't do is unclear.
Blair and Cameron were selected by the electorate.
And ?
Your contention is that Brady is unsuitable because he lacks senior experience not that the voters haven't endorsed him.
Eden, MacMillan, Home, Callaghan, Major, Brown and May became PM without reference to the voters.
Yes, and all of them at least had demonstrated the capacity to act as ministers at the very highest level. And they struggled in the job too.
Graham Brady's sole qualification for the job is that he holds the same set of opinions as the loonier Leaver obsessives. He hasn't demonstrated that he is capable of being Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Paperclips. If the Conservatives were to impose such a candidate on the nation, they would show that they had no interest in the nation's interests and only in indulging their own mad obsessions.
Conservatives should take heart from this poll. It shows no great love for a Corbyn led labour....yet.
I would have expected a double digit lead considering how bad the headlines have been for TMay recently, it really was the campaign/leader/manifesto that put us into hung parliament territory.
However YouGoV were showing at the beggining tories were heading for a 60-70 seat majority, a comfortable majority but not a landslide. It's been 30 years since a landslide has been won by the tories, the question is why can't they win landslides like they used to?
Boris & Gove."Once more unto the breach, dear friends ,once more ,". What they have done and are doing, is it really in the best interests of this country , or their own ego and importance.?
One thing you can never accuse Conservative politicians of is putting their country before their careers.
I always thought Francis Pym and Lord Carrington were very honourable members of previous conservative governments .In a bygone age ,when for these two did believe in country above their own personal position.
I'm sure Labour will win if the election is in the next year for the reasons given by Southam Observer. The Tories have divided and diminished this country in a way that hasn't been seen for many decades. Michael Gove was on the radio this morning as Minister for the Environment. The desperation in reappointing him shows even the Tories know the game is up.
A deeply divided country that is not at ease with itself is David Cameron's legacy. A poorer country, diminished in the world and still deeply divided will be Theresa May's legacy. The Tories really have screwed the UK over.
This is rubbish IMO. The EU referendum result did not "create" a deeply divided country, it was the consequence of it. Just as easy to make a case for Brown. Or Blair. Or, of course, Thatcher. The divide in the country is between the haves and the have nots. And it all comes down to the insoluble problem that is the property market.
Before the Referendum no one apart from a few fruitcakes gave the EU even a passing thought. It ranked somewhere below enviroment as a concern. After the Referendum it moved to top spot. What's more before the Referendum there were no losers. Now there are 17,000,000. A large percentage of whom are very angry.
Apart from the millions who have been negatively affected by the wage erosion and job insecurity caused by mass immigration. And the tens of millions who have been impacted by the breakdown of the social contract between employers and education in this country.
Yeh, apart from those, no losers at all.
I think he meant no losers who matter.
Ghastly provincials in vans who chew their words and smell of turps - ugh!
Blair and Cameron were selected by the electorate.
And ?
Your contention is that Brady is unsuitable because he lacks senior experience not that the voters haven't endorsed him.
Eden, MacMillan, Home, Callaghan, Major, Brown and May became PM without reference to the voters.
Yes, and all of them at least had demonstrated the capacity to act as ministers at the very highest level. And they struggled in the job too.
Graham Brady's sole qualification for the job is that he holds the same set of opinions as the loonier Leaver obsessives. He hasn't demonstrated that he is capable of being Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Paperclips. If the Conservatives were to impose such a candidate on the nation, they would show that they had no interest in the nation's interests and only in indulging their own mad obsessions.
I don't see much concern on here about the Finsbury Park incident. Not saying that the PB comments section is particularly important in the scheme of things, but if we expect 'moderate muslims' to disown ISIS etc, then non muslims need to be equally outraged by acts like these.
If the murderer is a Christian,isn't it time the Christian Church rooted out the terrorists within their midst?Why are Christian leaders denying the terrorists within their following?
Another government contract handed to American consultancies. Leaving aside the question of why the civil service cannot cope, does anyone imagine President Trump will be employing British management consultants any time soon?
Good to see us Taking Back Control. Although to be fair the hollowed out Civil Service we have now is not going to cope; bereft of specialists and with a culture of bland managerialism geared to parroting rather than offering a critical friend's eye on Government spin it is simply not up to dealing with the complex issues raised.
Another government contract handed to American consultancies. Leaving aside the question of why the civil service cannot cope, does anyone imagine President Trump will be employing British management consultants any time soon?
I don't see much concern on here about the Finsbury Park incident. Not saying that the PB comments section is particularly important in the scheme of things, but if we expect 'moderate muslims' to disown ISIS etc, then non muslims need to be equally outraged by acts like these.
If the murderer is a Christian,isn't it time the Christian Church rooted out the terrorists within their midst?Why are Christian leaders denying the terrorists within their following?
However YouGoV were showing at the beggining tories were heading for a 60-70 seat majority, a comfortable majority but not a landslide. It's been 30 years since a landslide has been won by the tories, the question is why can't they win landslides like they used to?
The vote share to be able to do it is seemingly unfavourable for them, especially in a '2' party contest. The SDP in 1987 got 25% of the vote remember.
Another government contract handed to American consultancies. Leaving aside the question of why the civil service cannot cope, does anyone imagine President Trump will be employing British management consultants any time soon?
They are all a dead loss.
Mckinsey is a parnership with partners of many nationalities.
A deeply divided country that is not at ease with itself is David Cameron's legacy. A poorer country, diminished in the world and still deeply divided will be Theresa May's legacy. The Tories really have screwed the UK over.
This is rubbish IMO. The EU referendum result did not "create" a deeply divided country, it was the consequence of it. Just as easy to make a case for Brown. Or Blair. Or, of course, Thatcher. The divide in the country is between the haves and the have nots. And it all comes down to the insoluble problem that is the property market.
Before the Referendum no one apart from a few fruitcakes gave the EU even a passing thought. It ranked somewhere below enviroment as a concern. After the Referendum it moved to top spot. What's more before the Referendum there were no losers. Now there are 17,000,000. A large percentage of whom are very angry.
Apart from the millions who have been negatively affected by the wage erosion and job insecurity caused by mass immigration. And the tens of millions who have been impacted by the breakdown of the social contract between employers and education in this country.
Yeh, apart from those, no losers at all.
When will wages start rising, Mortimer, and in what sectors? Immigration from the EU is now falling, as are wages. Go figure.
Wages will rise when there are more jobs than people. Nobody ever beat the market, its why doctors get paid more than postmen.
If you squeeze the life out of the economy there will be less demand and there will be fewer jobs. Funnily enough, high immigration Germany does not seem to have had the issues with living standards and falling wages that we have had. Maybe there are other things at play here. Still, it is certainly the case that Tory Brexiteers have promised higher wages, lower taxes, higher public spending and a never-ending stream of beneficial free trade deals, so I guess it's just a matter of sitting back and watching the good times roll on.
I don't see much concern on here about the Finsbury Park incident. Not saying that the PB comments section is particularly important in the scheme of things, but if we expect 'moderate muslims' to disown ISIS etc, then non muslims need to be equally outraged by acts like these.
If the murderer is a Christian,isn't it time the Christian Church rooted out the terrorists within their midst?Why are Christian leaders denying the terrorists within their following?
Is he a Christian?
All whities are christians don't ya know, you can see it in their eyes....
Boris & Gove."Once more unto the breach, dear friends ,once more ,". What they have done and are doing, is it really in the best interests of this country , or their own ego and importance.?
One thing you can never accuse Conservative politicians of is putting their country before their careers.
I always thought Francis Pym and Lord Carrington were very honourable members of previous conservative governments .In a bygone age ,when for these two did believe in country above their own personal position.
Genuine Conservative party patriotism began to die out when those who served in the second world war started to leave politics.
Blair and Cameron were selected by the electorate.
And ?
Your contention is that Brady is unsuitable because he lacks senior experience not that the voters haven't endorsed him.
Eden, MacMillan, Home, Callaghan, Major, Brown and May became PM without reference to the voters.
Yes, and all of them at least had demonstrated the capacity to act as ministers at the very highest level. And they struggled in the job too.
Graham Brady's sole qualification for the job is that he holds the same set of opinions as the loonier Leaver obsessives. He hasn't demonstrated that he is capable of being Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Paperclips. If the Conservatives were to impose such a candidate on the nation, they would show that they had no interest in the nation's interests and only in indulging their own mad obsessions.
I'm not proposing that Brady should be PM. I'm stating that ministerial experience or the endorsement of the voters has never been a prerequisite for initially becoming PM.
I don't see much concern on here about the Finsbury Park incident. Not saying that the PB comments section is particularly important in the scheme of things, but if we expect 'moderate muslims' to disown ISIS etc, then non muslims need to be equally outraged by acts like these.
If the murderer is a Christian,isn't it time the Christian Church rooted out the terrorists within their midst?Why are Christian leaders denying the terrorists within their following?
Is he a Christian?
Who knows? He definitely is not in his right mind though. Driving deliberately into people is not the act of someone who is of sound mind.
The really odd thing about Survation is that responders to both its phone and online surveys appear to be much more accurate about stating the chances of them voting compared with other pollsters.
Quite why this is the case is hard to ascertain. I've looked at the detailed questions and there is nothing that different from what other firms do.
Didn't one of their polls have 18-24 year olds at 82% chance of turning out?
I think I remember they ask the clients to let the surveys take time so that they can phone/ask at different times of the day.
I don't see much concern on here about the Finsbury Park incident. Not saying that the PB comments section is particularly important in the scheme of things, but if we expect 'moderate muslims' to disown ISIS etc, then non muslims need to be equally outraged by acts like these.
Yes, fair enough, though personally I don't think Muslims in general need to take a view on ISIS (the official bodies like MCB do), any more than on North Korea - default, backed up by polling, is to assume they think they're bonkers as everyone else does.
I don't think we really have the luxury of looking at the question in such philosophical terms. In the current atmosphere - not taking a stance is percieved as acquiescence.
There has been very little information in the media. I only heard the briefest of outlines and the police spokesman even refused to confirm that anyone died in the incident.
As I understand it the man which died was already receiving medical attention, so what actually happened or what the driver did or didn't do is unclear.
A deeply divided country that is not at ease with itself is David Cameron's legacy. A poorer country, diminished in the world and still deeply divided will be Theresa May's legacy. The Tories really have screwed the UK over.
This is rubbish IMO. The EU referendum result did not "create" a deeply divided country, it was the consequence of it. Just as easy to make a case for Brown. Or Blair. Or, of course, Thatcher. The divide in the country is between the haves and the have nots. And it all comes down to the insoluble problem that is the property market.
Before the Referendum no one apart from a few fruitcakes gave the EU even a passing thought. It ranked somewhere below enviroment as a concern. After the Referendum it moved to top spot. What's more before the Referendum there were no losers. Now there are 17,000,000. A large percentage of whom are very angry.
Apart from the millions who have been negatively affected by the wage erosion and job insecurity caused by mass immigration. And the tens of millions who have been impacted by the breakdown of the social contract between employers and education in this country.
Yeh, apart from those, no losers at all.
When will wages start rising, Mortimer, and in what sectors? Immigration from the EU is now falling, as are wages. Go figure.
Wages will rise when there are more jobs than people. Nobody ever beat the market, its why doctors get paid more than postmen.
If you squeeze the life out of the economy there will be less demand and there will be fewer jobs. Funnily enough, high immigration Germany does not seem to have had the issues with living standards and falling wages that we have had. Maybe there are other things at play here. Still, it is certainly the case that Tory Brexiteers have promised higher wages, lower taxes, higher public spending and a never-ending stream of beneficial free trade deals, so I guess it's just a matter of sitting back and watching the good times roll on.
Germany's success is remarkable given the state they were in 70 years ago. They concentrated on manufacturing and innovation while we concentrated on a welfare state and a bloated public sector. And now, drowning in debt we're full of low earning, non tax paying citizens.
And I've no idea what you mean by "squeeze the life out of the economy".
Boris & Gove."Once more unto the breach, dear friends ,once more ,". What they have done and are doing, is it really in the best interests of this country , or their own ego and importance.?
How cyncial! You clearly misunderstand the importance of this moment in history. With Brexit negotiations starting and the PM been seen as weak, there has never been a better time to position oneself as the next PM.
As Boris would say... "Well...ummmm... golly...... yes well.... phworrr... ummmm... yes well, of course....errr..."
Statesmen in the making
Boris in Brussels: "Cripes, this deal Dave did was jolly good. Why didn't you explain this before? Let's cancel the rest of the negotiations and play wiff-waff."
After the 24 hour media trashing of Theresa May these comments from Survation may surprise many.
Despite the fact that the poll puts Labour ahead of the Conservatives the survey is not all bad news for Mrs May.
With Brexit negotiations starting today, Mrs May was the party leader that most people trusted to negotiate the best deal with the Prime Minister backed by 52 per cent of people. Some 39 per cent of people said they believed Mr Corbyn would deliver the best Brexit deal for the UK.
Meanwhile, 48 per cent of people said they believed Mrs May should remain Prime Minister while 45 per cent said they wanted her to resign.
Those surveyed were also asked how they would vote in another EU referendum with 51 per cent backing Remain and 49 per cent saying they would vote to leave the bloc.
A deeply divided country that is not at ease with itself is David Cameron's legacy. A poorer country, diminished in the world and still deeply divided will be Theresa May's legacy. The Tories really have screwed the UK over.
This
Yeh, apart from those, no losers at all.
When will wages start rising, Mortimer, and in what sectors? Immigration from the EU is now falling, as are wages. Go figure.
Wages will rise when there are more jobs than people. Nobody ever beat the market, its why doctors get paid more than postmen.
If you squeeze the life out of the economy there will be less demand and there will be fewer jobs. Funnily enough, high immigration Germany does not seem to have had the issues with living standards and falling wages that we have had. Maybe there are other things at play here. Still, it is certainly the case that Tory Brexiteers have promised higher wages, lower taxes, higher public spending and a never-ending stream of beneficial free trade deals, so I guess it's just a matter of sitting back and watching the good times roll on.
I must have missed the 2.9 million new jobs created since 2010, the highest employment rate since 1971, and lowest unemployment rate since 1975 then.
Real wage growth is going to be a challenge for government of any stripe. What has held the average down is public sector wage restraint, part of the ongoing programme to bring the books back into balance, and the creation of lots of new lower-paid jobs as people move from welfare into work, which both drag down the average.
Both are preferable to far higher unemployment levels, but with a more "healthy" real wages growth figure for those who have the luxury of a job.
If you're employed full-time in the private sector, you are probably seeing decent-ish real wage increases of 3-4% a year, although I accept that's not quite good enough for all.
A deeply divided country that is not at ease with itself is David Cameron's legacy. A poorer country, diminished in the world and still deeply divided will be Theresa May's legacy. The Tories really have screwed the UK over.
This is rubbish IMO. The EU referendum result did not "create" a deeply divided country, it was the consequence of it. Just as easy to make a case for Brown. Or Blair. Or, of course, Thatcher. The divide in the country is between the haves and the have nots. And it all comes down to the insoluble problem that is the property market.
Before the Referendum no one apart from a few fruitcakes gave the EU even a passing thought. It ranked somewhere below enviroment as a concern. After the Referendum it moved to top spot. What's more before the Referendum there were no losers. Now there are 17,000,000. A large percentage of whom are very angry.
Apart from the millions who have been negatively affected by the wage erosion and job insecurity caused by mass immigration. And the tens of millions who have been impacted by the breakdown of the social contract between employers and education in this country.
Yeh, apart from those, no losers at all.
When will wages start rising, Mortimer, and in what sectors? Immigration from the EU is now falling, as are wages. Go figure.
Wages will rise when there are more jobs than people. Nobody ever beat the market, its why doctors get paid more than postmen.
If you squeeze the life out of the economy there will be less demand and there will be fewer jobs. Funnily enough, high immigration Germany does not seem to have had the issues with living standards and falling wages that we have had. Maybe there are other things at play here. Still, it is certainly the case that Tory Brexiteers have promised higher wages, lower taxes, higher public spending and a never-ending stream of beneficial free trade deals, so I guess it's just a matter of sitting back and watching the good times roll on.
Germany's success is remarkable given the state they were in 70 years ago. They concentrated on manufacturing and innovation while we concentrated on a welfare state and a bloated public sector. And now, drowning in debt we're full of low earning, non tax paying citizens.
And I've no idea what you mean by "squeeze the life out of the economy".
So we agree that our problems and falling living standards have not been caused by immigration from the EU.
I don't see much concern on here about the Finsbury Park incident. Not saying that the PB comments section is particularly important in the scheme of things, but if we expect 'moderate muslims' to disown ISIS etc, then non muslims need to be equally outraged by acts like these.
If the murderer is a Christian,isn't it time the Christian Church rooted out the terrorists within their midst?Why are Christian leaders denying the terrorists within their following?
Is he a Christian?
All whities are christians don't ya know, you can see it in their eyes....
To be fair some Christians from Northern Ireland were heavily involved in terrorism
Another government contract handed to American consultancies. Leaving aside the question of why the civil service cannot cope, does anyone imagine President Trump will be employing British management consultants any time soon?
The Tory score in that poll is very good considering the mood music since the election. The Labour figure is incredible. Have the people of this country genuinely gone mad?
The overall score of the big 2 is as high as I can recall seeing it. It appears that some Kippers wishing to go back to the 1950s have had at least a part of their wish granted after all. With the SNP probably on 4 % the Lib Dems, UKIP and the Greens are sharing 11% between them.
Well 52% voted Leave, the county went mad long before June 8th.
Edit - And don't even get me started on people who put pineapple on their pizzas.
What do you call those people who voted Leave AND put pineapple on their pizza?
Anybody thinking there will be a general election in the next 5 years is deluded. Politics is about power, nothing but, Cameron and May foolishly rolled the dice and look what happened. There is not a chance the tories will relinquish power until 2022.
On here people are increasingly conflating what they want to happen with reality.
Yeah but what about by-elections and defections etc.? in Oct 1974 Labour won an overall majority of 3 but it soon got whittled away and they had to make a pact with the Liberals to stay in power. After that collapsed they beaten in a vote of no confidence in March 1979.
John Major had a majority of 21 in 1992 but by 1997 he was running a minority government and had to do deals with the Ulstermen.
Defections? Are you seriously suggesting a tory will join Corbyn's labour?
See what I mean about people WANTING things to happen.
What if say half a dozen pro-EU MPs on Labour's right wing get fed up with Corbyn and form a new party? If we aren't getting a deal from the EU and on course to leave without one, one or two fanatical Tory remaindermen might be tempted to join them.
Political realignment is a possibility in this parliament: shut out both the Marxists and the europhobes: a new pro-business party supporting EFTA.
Anybody thinking there will be a general election in the next 5 years is deluded. Politics is about power, nothing but, Cameron and May foolishly rolled the dice and look what happened. There is not a chance the tories will relinquish power until 2022.
On here people are increasingly conflating what they want to happen with reality.
Yeah but what about by-elections and defections etc.? in Oct 1974 Labour won an overall majority of 3 but it soon got whittled away and they had to make a pact with the Liberals to stay in power. After that collapsed they beaten in a vote of no confidence in March 1979.
John Major had a majority of 21 in 1992 but by 1997 he was running a minority government and had to do deals with the Ulstermen.
Defections? Are you seriously suggesting a tory will join Corbyn's labour?
See what I mean about people WANTING things to happen.
What if say half a dozen pro-EU MPs on Labour's right wing get fed up with Corbyn and form a new party? If we aren't getting a deal from the EU and on course to leave without one, one or two fanatical Tory remaindermen might be tempted to join them.
Political realignment is a possibility in this parliament: shut out both the Marxists and the europhobes: a new pro-business party supporting EFTA.
Not likely now that Corbyn has outperformed. Most of the remaining NeverCorbyn's seem to be on the 'old labour' side rather than the blairite side. Perhaps the LDs will be able to more effectively champion that role - Lamb and Cable are both EFTA types rather than ultra-remainers, plus with more MPs and the fact that it is a hung parliament, they may be able to get more media coverage than they did in the last parliament.
Our problems (well part of it) have revolved around importing unskilled people to work for peanuts and therefore not contribute to the economy. At the same time they drive down wages.
It really is straightforward, if ten people apply for a job the employer is in control. As somebody who purports to care for the poor in society I'm surprised you want to make life even harder for them by making it difficult to get a well paid job.
Anybody thinking there will be a general election in the next 5 years is deluded. Politics is about power, nothing but, Cameron and May foolishly rolled the dice and look what happened. There is not a chance the tories will relinquish power until 2022.
On here people are increasingly conflating what they want to happen with reality.
Yeah but what about by-elections and defections etc.? in Oct 1974 Labour won an overall majority of 3 but it soon got whittled away and they had to make a pact with the Liberals to stay in power. After that collapsed they beaten in a vote of no confidence in March 1979.
John Major had a majority of 21 in 1992 but by 1997 he was running a minority government and had to do deals with the Ulstermen.
Defections? Are you seriously suggesting a tory will join Corbyn's labour?
See what I mean about people WANTING things to happen.
What if say half a dozen pro-EU MPs on Labour's right wing get fed up with Corbyn and form a new party? If we aren't getting a deal from the EU and on course to leave without one, one or two fanatical Tory remaindermen might be tempted to join them.
Political realignment is a possibility in this parliament: shut out both the Marxists and the europhobes: a new pro-business party supporting EFTA.
No matter how much we might wish for it, I just don't see the left of the Tory party (who are they, now??), the Owenite/Orange Book LibDems (who are they, now??) and the right of the Labour Party (who are they, now??) being brave enough to do anything that drastic this parliament - if they can't even move against their own leadership.
It feels like an alignment whose time might have been mid-coalition, had Cameron not quite won a second majority, EURef been kicked into the long grass, and Corbyn still engineered a win, post-Miliband.
After the 24 hour media trashing of Theresa May these comments from Survation may surprise many.
Despite the fact that the poll puts Labour ahead of the Conservatives the survey is not all bad news for Mrs May.
With Brexit negotiations starting today, Mrs May was the party leader that most people trusted to negotiate the best deal with the Prime Minister backed by 52 per cent of people. Some 39 per cent of people said they believed Mr Corbyn would deliver the best Brexit deal for the UK.
Meanwhile, 48 per cent of people said they believed Mrs May should remain Prime Minister while 45 per cent said they wanted her to resign.
Those surveyed were also asked how they would vote in another EU referendum with 51 per cent backing Remain and 49 per cent saying they would vote to leave the bloc.
The Tories are now in the grip of another ongoing leadership battle. All decisions made will be made with the succession in mind. Anyone with ambitions to take over from May will be thinking not of the general electorate but of the Tory party membership.
Another government contract handed to American consultancies. Leaving aside the question of why the civil service cannot cope, does anyone imagine President Trump will be employing British management consultants any time soon?
Will US consultants be able to understand the finer points of what is acceptable in UK politics?
I'm sure the British employees based in McKinsey's vast HQ in St James's London will have an idea.
Anybody thinking there will be a general election in the next 5 years is deluded. Politics is about power, nothing but, Cameron and May foolishly rolled the dice and look what happened. There is not a chance the tories will relinquish power until 2022.
On here people are increasingly conflating what they want to happen with reality.
Yeah but what about by-elections and defections etc.? in Oct 1974 Labour won an overall majority of 3 but it soon got whittled away and they had to make a pact with the Liberals to stay in power. After that collapsed they beaten in a vote of no confidence in March 1979.
John Major had a majority of 21 in 1992 but by 1997 he was running a minority government and had to do deals with the Ulstermen.
Defections? Are you seriously suggesting a tory will join Corbyn's labour?
See what I mean about people WANTING things to happen.
What if say half a dozen pro-EU MPs on Labour's right wing get fed up with Corbyn and form a new party? If we aren't getting a deal from the EU and on course to leave without one, one or two fanatical Tory remaindermen might be tempted to join them.
Political realignment is a possibility in this parliament: shut out both the Marxists and the europhobes: a new pro-business party supporting EFTA.
Not likely now that Corbyn has outperformed. Most of the remaining NeverCorbyn's seem to be on the 'old labour' side rather than the blairite side. Perhaps the LDs will be able to more effectively champion that role - Lamb and Cable are both EFTA types rather than ultra-remainers, plus with more MPs and the fact that it is a hung parliament, they may be able to get more media coverage than they did in the last parliament.
The LibDems lucked out with the hung parliament. If they'd had 12 MPs and there was a Conservative majority of 60, you'd never hear from them. With no majority, the question of whether the LibDems vote with the government or not is genuinely news.
Of course, they need someone articulate to take advantage of this.
I don't see much concern on here about the Finsbury Park incident. Not saying that the PB comments section is particularly important in the scheme of things, but if we expect 'moderate muslims' to disown ISIS etc, then non muslims need to be equally outraged by acts like these.
If the murderer is a Christian,isn't it time the Christian Church rooted out the terrorists within their midst?Why are Christian leaders denying the terrorists within their following?
Is he a Christian?
All whities are christians don't ya know, you can see it in their eyes....
To be fair some Christians from Northern Ireland were heavily involved in terrorism
Oh Christians are more than capable of terrorism for sure. Although if this guy is motivated by religion or just a simple bigot we'll see.
If it's ok for Italians to put potato on pizza (to be fair, it works surprisingly well), it's ok for me to put pineapple on pizza. I don't get the need to be purist about this.
There is a German relative of the pizza that is served in Cologne. It is called, I think, a Koelsch pizza and the entire base is mashed potato instead of bread.
Probably only the Germans could a/ do this and b/ still consider it a pizza.
Our problems (well part of it) have revolved around importing unskilled people to work for peanuts and therefore not contribute to the economy. At the same time they drive down wages.
It really is straightforward, if ten people apply for a job the employer is in control. As somebody who purports to care for the poor in society I'm surprised you want to make life even harder for them by making it difficult to get a well paid job.
We have virtual full employment now. There are not 10 people applying for every job.
Why haven't high rates of immigration driven down wages and living standards in Germany?
Anybody thinking there will be a general election in the next 5 years is deluded. Politics is about power, nothing but, Cameron and May foolishly rolled the dice and look what happened. There is not a chance the tories will relinquish power until 2022.
On here people are increasingly conflating what they want to happen with reality.
Yeah but what about by-elections and defections etc.? in Oct 1974 Labour won an overall majority of 3 but it soon got whittled away and they had to make a pact with the Liberals to stay in power. After that collapsed they beaten in a vote of no confidence in March 1979.
John Major had a majority of 21 in 1992 but by 1997 he was running a minority government and had to do deals with the Ulstermen.
Defections? Are you seriously suggesting a tory will join Corbyn's labour?
See what I mean about people WANTING things to happen.
What if say half a dozen pro-EU MPs on Labour's right wing get fed up with Corbyn and form a new party? If we aren't getting a deal from the EU and on course to leave without one, one or two fanatical Tory remaindermen might be tempted to join them.
Political realignment is a possibility in this parliament: shut out both the Marxists and the europhobes: a new pro-business party supporting EFTA.
Sorry, but with the possibility still of another GE this year or next, do you really think any MP of any party will want to piss off their local constituency party members, support or more importantly, their electorate? They might look and act like cabbages, but they are not that stupid.
Another government contract handed to American consultancies. Leaving aside the question of why the civil service cannot cope, does anyone imagine President Trump will be employing British management consultants any time soon?
They are all a dead loss.
Mckinsey is a parnership with partners of many nationalities.
I don't see much concern on here about the Finsbury Park incident. Not saying that the PB comments section is particularly important in the scheme of things, but if we expect 'moderate muslims' to disown ISIS etc, then non muslims need to be equally outraged by acts like these.
Yes, fair enough, though personally I don't think Muslims in general need to take a view on ISIS (the official bodies like MCB do), any more than on North Korea - default, backed up by polling, is to assume they think they're bonkers as everyone else does.
I don't think we really have the luxury of looking at the question in such philosophical terms. In the current atmosphere - not taking a stance is percieved as acquiescence.
There has been very little information in the media. I only heard the briefest of outlines and the police spokesman even refused to confirm that anyone died in the incident.
As I understand it the man which died was already receiving medical attention, so what actually happened or what the driver did or didn't do is unclear.
I guess it is wait-and-see
Theresa May organised another COBRA meeting this morning....
Blair and Cameron were selected by the electorate.
And ?
Your contention is that Brady is unsuitable because he lacks senior experience not that the voters haven't endorsed him.
Eden, MacMillan, Home, Callaghan, Major, Brown and May became PM without reference to the voters.
Yes, and all of them at least had demonstrated the capacity to act as ministers at the very highest level. And they struggled in the job too.
Graham Brady's sole qualification for the job is that he holds the same set of opinions as the loonier Leaver obsessives. He hasn't demonstrated that he is capable of being Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Paperclips. If the Conservatives were to impose such a candidate on the nation, they would show that they had no interest in the nation's interests and only in indulging their own mad obsessions.
The LibDems lucked out with the hung parliament. If they'd had 12 MPs and there was a Conservative majority of 60, you'd never hear from them. With no majority, the question of whether the LibDems vote with the government or not is genuinely news.
Of course, they need someone articulate to take advantage of this.
Peerage for OGH sounds good to me. LibDem spokesman in the Lords for spreading the word - formerly the word of god but not with Farron exiting.
Of course that would mean we'd have "The Honourable Robert Smithson" ....
Our problems (well part of it) have revolved around importing unskilled people to work for peanuts and therefore not contribute to the economy. At the same time they drive down wages.
It really is straightforward, if ten people apply for a job the employer is in control. As somebody who purports to care for the poor in society I'm surprised you want to make life even harder for them by making it difficult to get a well paid job.
We have virtual full employment now. There are not 10 people applying for every job.
Why haven't high rates of immigration driven down wages and living standards in Germany?
For the reasons I've already told you, they make things and trade, we don't do that anywhere near as successfully. We get kids to do degrees in media studies and work in call centres.
Not ten people applying for every job? Go and talk to the kids leaving uni and tell them that. And go to a council estate outside London and ask the residents if immigration has affected their wages.
For the Tories, much attention on the leadership has focused on Boris, Davis, Rudd and Hammond (and Ruth).
But what about thinking outside that circle a bit? People like Ruth Davidson because she's authentic - a working class lesbian who cuts against the Tory stereotype - but also with an eye for campaigning.
Why doesn't Justine Greening - working class, Yorkshire born, London seat, in a lesbian relationship, no notable disasters on her CV - start grabbing a few photo opportunities? She'd be in a good position to take over from May in two years after the Brexit negotiations.....
Boris & Gove."Once more unto the breach, dear friends ,once more ,". What they have done and are doing, is it really in the best interests of this country , or their own ego and importance.?
One thing you can never accuse Conservative politicians of is putting their country before their careers.
I always thought Francis Pym and Lord Carrington were very honourable members of previous conservative governments .In a bygone age ,when for these two did believe in country above their own personal position.
Genuine Conservative party patriotism began to die out when those who served in the second world war started to leave politics.
Yes very good point.Individualism did become the overarching theory for many after they left politics.
Our problems (well part of it) have revolved around importing unskilled people to work for peanuts and therefore not contribute to the economy. At the same time they drive down wages.
It really is straightforward, if ten people apply for a job the employer is in control. As somebody who purports to care for the poor in society I'm surprised you want to make life even harder for them by making it difficult to get a well paid job.
We have virtual full employment now. There are not 10 people applying for every job.
Why haven't high rates of immigration driven down wages and living standards in Germany?
Anybody thinking there will be a general election in the next 5 years is deluded. Politics is about power, nothing but, Cameron and May foolishly rolled the dice and look what happened. There is not a chance the tories will relinquish power until 2022.
On here people are increasingly conflating what they want to happen with reality.
Yeah but what about by-elections and defections etc.? in Oct 1974 Labour won an overall majority of 3 but it soon got whittled away and they had to make a pact with the Liberals to stay in power. After that collapsed they beaten in a vote of no confidence in March 1979.
John Major had a majority of 21 in 1992 but by 1997 he was running a minority government and had to do deals with the Ulstermen.
Defections? Are you seriously suggesting a tory will join Corbyn's labour?
See what I mean about people WANTING things to happen.
What if say half a dozen pro-EU MPs on Labour's right wing get fed up with Corbyn and form a new party? If we aren't getting a deal from the EU and on course to leave without one, one or two fanatical Tory remaindermen might be tempted to join them.
Political realignment is a possibility in this parliament: shut out both the Marxists and the europhobes: a new pro-business party supporting EFTA.
Sorry, but with the possibility still of another GE this year or next, do you really think any MP of any party will want to piss off their local constituency party members, support or more importantly, their electorate? They might look and act like cabbages, but they are not that stupid.
If it happens it's possible that it could be almost an organic process following the breakdown of party discipline over an existential Brexit vote.
I don't see much concern on here about the Finsbury Park incident. Not saying that the PB comments section is particularly important in the scheme of things, but if we expect 'moderate muslims' to disown ISIS etc, then non muslims need to be equally outraged by acts like these.
If the murderer is a Christian,isn't it time the Christian Church rooted out the terrorists within their midst?Why are Christian leaders denying the terrorists within their following?
Is he a Christian?
All whities are christians don't ya know, you can see it in their eyes....
To be fair some Christians from Northern Ireland were heavily involved in terrorism
Our problems (well part of it) have revolved around importing unskilled people to work for peanuts and therefore not contribute to the economy. At the same time they drive down wages.
It really is straightforward, if ten people apply for a job the employer is in control. As somebody who purports to care for the poor in society I'm surprised you want to make life even harder for them by making it difficult to get a well paid job.
We have virtual full employment now. There are not 10 people applying for every job.
Why haven't high rates of immigration driven down wages and living standards in Germany?
Because Germany is suffering a demographic apocalypse. They ain't having babies. It's not so obvious in the west - but the old GDR is like Japan. Germany's immigrants are doing a sound job of keeping the country's population decline limited. But we've seen Peak Germany. And demographics is destiny.
After the 24 hour media trashing of Theresa May these comments from Survation may surprise many.
Despite the fact that the poll puts Labour ahead of the Conservatives the survey is not all bad news for Mrs May.
With Brexit negotiations starting today, Mrs May was the party leader that most people trusted to negotiate the best deal with the Prime Minister backed by 52 per cent of people. Some 39 per cent of people said they believed Mr Corbyn would deliver the best Brexit deal for the UK.
Meanwhile, 48 per cent of people said they believed Mrs May should remain Prime Minister while 45 per cent said they wanted her to resign.
Those surveyed were also asked how they would vote in another EU referendum with 51 per cent backing Remain and 49 per cent saying they would vote to leave the bloc.
The Tories are now in the grip of another ongoing leadership battle. All decisions made will be made with the succession in mind. Anyone with ambitions to take over from May will be thinking not of the general electorate but of the Tory party membership.
What's good for the electorate is good for the Tory party.
Our problems (well part of it) have revolved around importing unskilled people to work for peanuts and therefore not contribute to the economy. At the same time they drive down wages.
It really is straightforward, if ten people apply for a job the employer is in control. As somebody who purports to care for the poor in society I'm surprised you want to make life even harder for them by making it difficult to get a well paid job.
We have virtual full employment now. There are not 10 people applying for every job.
Why haven't high rates of immigration driven down wages and living standards in Germany?
Because Germany is suffering a demographic apocalypse. They ain't having babies. It's not so obvious in the west - but the old GDR is like Japan. Germany's immigrants are doing a sound job of keeping the country's population decline limited. But we've seen Peak Germany. And demographics is destiny.
The thing about unsustainable trends is that they aren't sustained forever.
Tony Blair, David Cameron and Nick Clegg have jointly just announced a new political party to bring national reconciliation, a new sense of leadership to the UK and total Neo-Liberalism ideology. Let us all join together and welcome - the SLP (Self Levitating Porcines)
Our problems (well part of it) have revolved around importing unskilled people to work for peanuts and therefore not contribute to the economy. At the same time they drive down wages.
It really is straightforward, if ten people apply for a job the employer is in control. As somebody who purports to care for the poor in society I'm surprised you want to make life even harder for them by making it difficult to get a well paid job.
We have virtual full employment now. There are not 10 people applying for every job.
Why haven't high rates of immigration driven down wages and living standards in Germany?
Our problems (well part of it) have revolved around importing unskilled people to work for peanuts and therefore not contribute to the economy. At the same time they drive down wages.
It really is straightforward, if ten people apply for a job the employer is in control. As somebody who purports to care for the poor in society I'm surprised you want to make life even harder for them by making it difficult to get a well paid job.
We have virtual full employment now. There are not 10 people applying for every job.
Why haven't high rates of immigration driven down wages and living standards in Germany?
Because Germany is suffering a demographic apocalypse. They ain't having babies. It's not so obvious in the west - but the old GDR is like Japan. Germany's immigrants are doing a sound job of keeping the country's population decline limited. But we've seen Peak Germany. And demographics is destiny.
The thing about unsustainable trends is that they aren't sustained forever.
After the 24 hour media trashing of Theresa May these comments from Survation may surprise many.
Despite the fact that the poll puts Labour ahead of the Conservatives the survey is not all bad news for Mrs May.
With Brexit negotiations starting today, Mrs May was the party leader that most people trusted to negotiate the best deal with the Prime Minister backed by 52 per cent of people. Some 39 per cent of people said they believed Mr Corbyn would deliver the best Brexit deal for the UK.
Meanwhile, 48 per cent of people said they believed Mrs May should remain Prime Minister while 45 per cent said they wanted her to resign.
Those surveyed were also asked how they would vote in another EU referendum with 51 per cent backing Remain and 49 per cent saying they would vote to leave the bloc.
The Tories are now in the grip of another ongoing leadership battle. All decisions made will be made with the succession in mind. Anyone with ambitions to take over from May will be thinking not of the general electorate but of the Tory party membership.
What's good for the electorate is good for the Tory party.
True one can not argue with that sentiment especially on here.
Boris & Gove."Once more unto the breach, dear friends ,once more ,". What they have done and are doing, is it really in the best interests of this country , or their own ego and importance.?
One thing you can never accuse Conservative politicians of is putting their country before their careers.
Ah, I think that's a tad unfair.
The general crapness of May aside, the likes of Ken Clarke, John Redwood, Dominic Grieve, Oliver Letwin, Anne Widdicombe... even David Davies.. regardless of whether you agree with their politics and whether their views of what constitutes a better UK or not, have been fairly principled and steady throughout their careers.
Gove sacrificed his career and his friendships over Brexit. And I genuinely believe he thinks that the UK, in the medium term, will be better off outside.
Same applies to other parties. There are honourable members on all sides.
The ones who grate on me are the likes of that careerist Tory MP Alan Mak. What a cock he is.
No doubt been commented on here before but the return to 2 party politics is striking.
41% for the tories even with a world of problems and a desperately poor leader is amazing.
But of most long term significance is the demise of the LDs. I forget the exact numbers but they were in second place at something like 240 seats in GE2015, and this was down to well under 50 seats in GE 2017.
Their vote had always consisted of a strong "anyone but the Tories" component. In the vast majority of seats that has already gone to Labour, and next time Labour will point out who is second - i.e. them and not the LDs so it can only decline.
LDs only won in places like Eastbourne, OxWAb and N Norfolk because of this - their vote in neighbouring demographically similar seats was in some cases 10 times lower, suggesting MOST of their vote their is either "not Tory" as opposed to "For LD", or is a personal vote for individual MPs. Amazing.
Our problems (well part of it) have revolved around importing unskilled people to work for peanuts and therefore not contribute to the economy. At the same time they drive down wages.
It really is straightforward, if ten people apply for a job the employer is in control. As somebody who purports to care for the poor in society I'm surprised you want to make life even harder for them by making it difficult to get a well paid job.
We have virtual full employment now. There are not 10 people applying for every job.
Why haven't high rates of immigration driven down wages and living standards in Germany?
For the reasons I've already told you, they make things and trade, we don't do that anywhere near as successfully. We get kids to do degrees in media studies and work in call centres.
Not ten people applying for every job? Go and talk to the kids leaving uni and tell them that. And go to a council estate outside London and ask the residents if immigration has affected their wages.
So the Germans have made much better decisions than us. Yes, I agree. Not sure what that has to do with EU immigration, though.
You argued that employees have the upper hand when there is full employment. Unemployment rates are at historically low levels in this country, but real incomes are falling.
For the Tories, much attention on the leadership has focused on Boris, Davis, Rudd and Hammond (and Ruth).
But what about thinking outside that circle a bit? People like Ruth Davidson because she's authentic - a working class lesbian who cuts against the Tory stereotype - but also with an eye for campaigning.
Why doesn't Justine Greening - working class, Yorkshire born, London seat, in a lesbian relationship, no notable disasters on her CV - start grabbing a few photo opportunities? She'd be in a good position to take over from May in two years after the Brexit negotiations.....
Hhmmm ....
Remember the "gay mafia" - I think the "Sun" can just about tolerate one lesb1an in Ruth Davidson strutting her stuff on the national stage but not a lesb1an PM in the form of Justine Greening too. Unless of course they both agreed to naked mud wrestling with exclusive rights for the paper.
Our problems (well part of it) have revolved around importing unskilled people to work for peanuts and therefore not contribute to the economy. At the same time they drive down wages.
It really is straightforward, if ten people apply for a job the employer is in control. As somebody who purports to care for the poor in society I'm surprised you want to make life even harder for them by making it difficult to get a well paid job.
We have virtual full employment now. There are not 10 people applying for every job.
Why haven't high rates of immigration driven down wages and living standards in Germany?
For the reasons I've already told you, they make things and trade, we don't do that anywhere near as successfully. We get kids to do degrees in media studies and work in call centres.
Not ten people applying for every job? Go and talk to the kids leaving uni and tell them that. And go to a council estate outside London and ask the residents if immigration has affected their wages.
So the Germans have made much better decisions than us. Yes, I agree. Not sure what that has to do with EU immigration, though.
You argued that employees have the upper hand when there is full employment. Unemployment rates are at historically low levels in this country, but real incomes are falling.
They made the decision not to allow mass immigration from A8 countries
A deeply divided country that is not at ease with itself is David Cameron's legacy. A poorer country, diminished in the world and still deeply divided will be Theresa May's legacy. The Tories really have screwed the UK over.
You think leaving the EU is horrific. I think it's a good thing. A generation from now, we'll know which of us is right.
At least the break up of the UK (a real prospect three years ago) looks to have been averted.
Is it the participation of the DUP in the UK government that makes you think the union is secure?
The big drop in support for the SNP helps to secure the Union.
But, as to Your point, Northern Ireland is not Guam or Puerto Rico. It's an integral part of the UK, and therefore it is entirely appropriate that those of its MPs who choose to sit in Parliament should take part in our government.
Boris & Gove."Once more unto the breach, dear friends ,once more ,". What they have done and are doing, is it really in the best interests of this country , or their own ego and importance.?
How cyncial! You clearly misunderstand the importance of this moment in history. With Brexit negotiations starting and the PM been seen as weak, there has never been a better time to position oneself as the next PM.
As Boris would say... "Well...ummmm... golly...... yes well.... phworrr... ummmm... yes well, of course....errr..."
Statesmen in the making
Boris in Brussels: "Cripes, this deal Dave did was jolly good. Why didn't you explain this before? Let's cancel the rest of the negotiations and play wiff-waff."
Our problems (well part of it) have revolved around importing unskilled people to work for peanuts and therefore not contribute to the economy. At the same time they drive down wages.
It really is straightforward, if ten people apply for a job the employer is in control. As somebody who purports to care for the poor in society I'm surprised you want to make life even harder for them by making it difficult to get a well paid job.
We have virtual full employment now. There are not 10 people applying for every job.
Why haven't high rates of immigration driven down wages and living standards in Germany?
For the reasons I've already told you, they make things and trade, we don't do that anywhere near as successfully. We get kids to do degrees in media studies and work in call centres.
Not ten people applying for every job? Go and talk to the kids leaving uni and tell them that. And go to a council estate outside London and ask the residents if immigration has affected their wages.
So the Germans have made much better decisions than us. Yes, I agree. Not sure what that has to do with EU immigration, though.
You argued that employees have the upper hand when there is full employment. Unemployment rates are at historically low levels in this country, but real incomes are falling.
They made the decision not to allow mass immigration from A8 countries
Only for a transitional period. And let's not forget that they took over responsibility for the first post-communist country to join the EU lock, stock and barrel.
Our problems (well part of it) have revolved around importing unskilled people to work for peanuts and therefore not contribute to the economy. At the same time they drive down wages.
It really is straightforward, if ten people apply for a job the employer is in control. As somebody who purports to care for the poor in society I'm surprised you want to make life even harder for them by making it difficult to get a well paid job.
We have virtual full employment now. There are not 10 people applying for every job.
Why haven't high rates of immigration driven down wages and living standards in Germany?
Because they applied restrictions in 2003/04?
I thought 1m came in 2015 ?
If unrestricted EU immigration of low-skilled workers is so brilliant, why don't the EU bite our hand off at the offer of keeping Single Market access (so we all keep trading as we do now) whilst they get the benefits of all the unskilled workers who no longer have access to the UK?
Boris & Gove."Once more unto the breach, dear friends ,once more ,". What they have done and are doing, is it really in the best interests of this country , or their own ego and importance.?
One thing you can never accuse Conservative politicians of is putting their country before their careers.
Ah, I think that's a tad unfair.
The general crapness of May aside, the likes of Ken Clarke, John Redwood, Dominic Grieve, Oliver Letwin, Anne Widdicombe... even David Davies.. regardless of whether you agree with their politics and whether their views of what constitutes a better UK or not, have been fairly principled and steady throughout their careers.
Gove sacrificed his career and his friendships over Brexit. And I genuinely believe he thinks that the UK, in the medium term, will be better off outside.
Same applies to other parties. There are honourable members on all sides.
The ones who grate on me are the likes of that careerist Tory MP Alan Mak. What a cock he is.
Parallels between the Brexiteers and the leaders of the Confederate South, who were fighting for what they saw as liberty, including the freedom to own slaves. Whether they really acted in their states' interest is doubtful. Incidentally the defeat of the South by the United States wasn't inevitable, but they were more unified than Britain currently is and their leadership was less fractured and incompetent
Comments
As Boris would say... "Well...ummmm... golly...... yes well.... phworrr... ummmm... yes well, of course....errr..."
Statesmen in the making
The leftwing slanted gutter tv news is the new norm,ch4 far left,itv news left of centre,bbc left of centre and sky new left of centre to cuckoo.
More sad news coming from london this morning.
Eden had experience to spare as did Heath. Ditto for Callaghan and May. Blair and Cameron none.
52% voted Leave whereas only 40% voted Conservative, averaged across the last two elections. Given that there are large numbers of Remainers among the Conservatives - most of the actual government, for example - it is clear that the Leave vote was not 40% Conservatives plus 12% other. It was non-partisan.
The difficulty we are now seeing in disentangling ourselves from the EU tells us pretty conclusively that we were a hair's breadth away from being unable to do so at all. Another few years, some other treaty, and we would in effect have conceded our independence without the people ever having been consulted.
It is pretty staggering that we could get to such a pass. I certainly don't know how the Queen got comfortable with it.
There are probably those who would have been quite happy with such a result. If so, their opportunity to explain why it was such a great idea was last June. That they couldn't sell it and the 52:48 result that ensued suggests strongly that we are all of us rather divided on this.
I say that as one who didn't actually vote because both sides' arguments were, frankly, poor.
Your contention is that Brady is unsuitable because he lacks senior experience not that the voters haven't endorsed him.
Eden, MacMillan, Home, Callaghan, Major, Brown and May became PM without reference to the voters.
Graham Brady's sole qualification for the job is that he holds the same set of opinions as the loonier Leaver obsessives. He hasn't demonstrated that he is capable of being Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Paperclips. If the Conservatives were to impose such a candidate on the nation, they would show that they had no interest in the nation's interests and only in indulging their own mad obsessions.
I would have expected a double digit lead considering how bad the headlines have been for TMay recently, it really was the campaign/leader/manifesto that put us into hung parliament territory.
However YouGoV were showing at the beggining tories were heading for a 60-70 seat majority, a comfortable majority but not a landslide. It's been 30 years since a landslide has been won by the tories, the question is why can't they win landslides like they used to?
Ghastly provincials in vans who chew their words and smell of turps - ugh!
Breathtaking ineptitude matched by a circle of colleagues waiting to wield the knife and at the mercy of the DUP.
Strong and stable ?!?! .... titter.
Mckinsey is a parnership with partners of many nationalities.
Tis a historically fact old thing.
I think I remember they ask the clients to let the surveys take time so that they can phone/ask at different times of the day.
I don't know if all the pollsters do this though.
And I've no idea what you mean by "squeeze the life out of the economy".
Despite the fact that the poll puts Labour ahead of the Conservatives the survey is not all bad news for Mrs May.
With Brexit negotiations starting today, Mrs May was the party leader that most people trusted to negotiate the best deal with the Prime Minister backed by 52 per cent of people. Some 39 per cent of people said they believed Mr Corbyn would deliver the best Brexit deal for the UK.
Meanwhile, 48 per cent of people said they believed Mrs May should remain Prime Minister while 45 per cent said they wanted her to resign.
Those surveyed were also asked how they would vote in another EU referendum with 51 per cent backing Remain and 49 per cent saying they would vote to leave the bloc.
Did we agree that?
Our problems (well part of it) have revolved around importing unskilled people to work for peanuts and therefore not contribute to the economy. At the same time they drive down wages.
It really is straightforward, if ten people apply for a job the employer is in control. As somebody who purports to care for the poor in society I'm surprised you want to make life even harder for them by making it difficult to get a well paid job.
It feels like an alignment whose time might have been mid-coalition, had Cameron not quite won a second majority, EURef been kicked into the long grass, and Corbyn still engineered a win, post-Miliband.
Bloody Conservative government idiocy can't even lose a seat for a widely respected PBer. Shocking I tell you, shocking !! ..
Does that mean PBer Aaron Bell gets an Earldom for losing by more than 5,000 in Don Valley ? ....
Of course, they need someone articulate to take advantage of this.
http://www.kochbar.de/rezept/478321/Koelsche-Pizza.html
https://www.daskochrezept.de/rezepte/koelsche-pizza_204772.html
Why haven't high rates of immigration driven down wages and living standards in Germany?
Of course that would mean we'd have "The Honourable Robert Smithson" ....
Not ten people applying for every job? Go and talk to the kids leaving uni and tell them that. And go to a council estate outside London and ask the residents if immigration has affected their wages.
But what about thinking outside that circle a bit? People like Ruth Davidson because she's authentic - a working class lesbian who cuts against the Tory stereotype - but also with an eye for campaigning.
Why doesn't Justine Greening - working class, Yorkshire born, London seat, in a lesbian relationship, no notable disasters on her CV - start grabbing a few photo opportunities? She'd be in a good position to take over from May in two years after the Brexit negotiations.....
https://twitter.com/GerryAdamsSF/status/876714877175386114
Not sure Greening has the profile or support from other MPs.
http://www.dw.com/en/birthrate-in-germany-highest-in-33-years/a-36058323
#oneforthekids
https://www.facebook.com/HuffPostUK/videos/1530726853661708/
The 1850s.
The general crapness of May aside, the likes of Ken Clarke, John Redwood, Dominic Grieve, Oliver Letwin, Anne Widdicombe... even David Davies.. regardless of whether you agree with their politics and whether their views of what constitutes a better UK or not, have been fairly principled and steady throughout their careers.
Gove sacrificed his career and his friendships over Brexit. And I genuinely believe he thinks that the UK, in the medium term, will be better off outside.
Same applies to other parties. There are honourable members on all sides.
The ones who grate on me are the likes of that careerist Tory MP Alan Mak. What a cock he is.
41% for the tories even with a world of problems and a desperately poor leader is amazing.
But of most long term significance is the demise of the LDs. I forget the exact numbers but they were in second place at something like 240 seats in GE2015, and this was down to well under 50 seats in GE 2017.
Their vote had always consisted of a strong "anyone but the Tories" component. In the vast majority of seats that has already gone to Labour, and next time Labour will point out who is second - i.e. them and not the LDs so it can only decline.
LDs only won in places like Eastbourne, OxWAb and N Norfolk because of this - their vote in neighbouring demographically similar seats was in some cases 10 times lower, suggesting MOST of their vote their is either "not Tory" as opposed to "For LD", or is a personal vote for individual MPs. Amazing.
You argued that employees have the upper hand when there is full employment. Unemployment rates are at historically low levels in this country, but real incomes are falling.
Remember the "gay mafia" - I think the "Sun" can just about tolerate one lesb1an in Ruth Davidson strutting her stuff on the national stage but not a lesb1an PM in the form of Justine Greening too. Unless of course they both agreed to naked mud wrestling with exclusive rights for the paper.
But, as to Your point, Northern Ireland is not Guam or Puerto Rico. It's an integral part of the UK, and therefore it is entirely appropriate that those of its MPs who choose to sit in Parliament should take part in our government.