politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The pressure ratchets up on beleaguered Theresa
Comments
-
They certainly did pay attention to upgrading fire systems in the refurb - AndyJS posted this extraordinary link earlier, am astonished it is still up online.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps all those low-hanging fruit (e.g. better fire-resistant doors) had been done. You then get onto the expensive things.FF43 said:
That article seems somewhat binary. We're all jumping the gun, but there are probably practical and affordable (if not always cheap) things landlords could do to make their buildings safer from fire, which don't involve either demolishing all tower blocks or attempting to put in a second staircase as they would be obliged to do in a new build.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/876163629976096768FF43 said:It's clear however that something, or probably several things together, went badly wrong at Grenfell Tower. It wasn't a once in centuries event that you couldn't reasonably mitigate. Either the building standards aren't fit for purpose or they aren't being enforced effectively.Very possibly both.
As an example: AIUI passive gravity-fed sprinklers depend on a water supply at the top of the building. That's fine in a new building, however adding a few tonnes of water to the top of an existing building can be complex and expensive. Pumped-water sprinkler systems depend on a maintained source of power and are much more complex. (The two can be combined, with the tanks at the top of the building in a gravity-fed system being replenished via a pumped supply).
Even the weight of the water-filled pipes for sprinklers can be significant locally within a structure.
It should be remember that many millions had just been spent on this building. It wasn't as if it had been allowed to deteriorate. The sad thing is that these renovations had probably made the building less resistant to fire.
http://wittukgroup.co.uk/grenfell-tower-london-w11-1tq-regeneration-project/
(For future's sake, I notice it has been Saved 12 times between June 14, 2017 and June 17, 2017 on archive.org!)0 -
This is who we are dealing with, Corbyn is just a puppet, if he is elected it will be McDonnell and the Unions and Len McCluskey calling the shots, it would be the most leftwing government we have ever had, Attlee, Wilson and Callaghan were patriots not in the mould of the hard left who run Momentum and the Labour leadership nowSunil_Prasannan said:
"Comrades, this is your Leader. It is an honour to speak to you today, and I am honoured to be sailing with you on the maiden voyage of our Party's most recent achievement. Once more, we play our dangerous game, a game of chess against our old adversary — The Conservative Party. For a hundred years, your fathers before you and your older brothers played this game and played it well. But today the game is different. We have the advantage. It reminds me of the heady days of 1945 and Clement Attlee, when the world trembled at the sound of our Nationalisations! Well, they will tremble again — at the sound of our Glorious 2017 Manifesto. The order is: engage the Corbyn Drive!HYUFD said:Unions plotting 'Red October'
'Union leaders are plotting a ‘summer of discontent’ to cause chaos and force Theresa May from power.
Militants linked to Unite, rail guards, teachers and junior doctors told followers this week to prepare for co-ordinated strikes and national protests, which would bring the country to a standstill.
They pledged to defy the election result and help the Labour Party seize power like the Bolsheviks in 1917, stating: ‘We will have a Red October with Jeremy Corbyn as our Prime Minister!’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612250/Militants-warn-summer-discontent.html
"Comrades, our own Parliamentary Party don't know our full potential. They will do everything possible to test us; but they will only test their own embarrassment. We will leave our MPs behind, we will pass through the Conservative patrols, past their sonar nets, and lay off their largest constituency, and listen to their chortling and tittering... while we conduct Austerity Debates! Then, and when we are finished, the only sound they will hear is our laughter, while we sail to Brighton, where the sun is warm, and so is the... Comradeship!
"A great day, Comrades! We sail into history!"0 -
The Telegraph increasingly looks like a poundshop Daily Express...JohnO said:
Except, as you and I know, the Tory party rules no longer permit a stalking horse challenge. There's simply a vote of no confidence, which if carried, means a new election in which the previous incumbent cannot stand.TheScreamingEagles said:Here's the Telegraph story on the stalking horse challenge.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/17/secret-plot-oust-theresa-may-ministers-threaten-stalking-horse/
Shouldn't these 'journalists' at least obtain a grade E in GCSE politics?0 -
HYUFD said:
Unions plotting 'Red October'
'Union leaders are plotting a ‘summer of discontent’ to cause chaos and force Theresa May from power.
Militants linked to Unite, rail guards, teachers and junior doctors told followers this week to prepare for co-ordinated strikes and national protests, which would bring the country to a standstill.
They pledged to defy the election result and help the Labour Party seize power like the Bolsheviks in 1917, stating: ‘We will have a Red October with Jeremy Corbyn as our Prime Minister!’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612250/Militants-warn-summer-discontent.html
does this mean we will get lots of analysis of AV?TheScreamingEagles said:Sunday Times - Key dates for May are June 28th and 29th, when there's votes on the Queen's speech, 'If it looks like they will be lost, you have to strike'
FYI - Mike's holiday begins on June 29th, and I'm your guest editor for nearly three weeks.0 -
Adult videos????BigRich said:HYUFD said:Unions plotting 'Red October'
'Union leaders are plotting a ‘summer of discontent’ to cause chaos and force Theresa May from power.
Militants linked to Unite, rail guards, teachers and junior doctors told followers this week to prepare for co-ordinated strikes and national protests, which would bring the country to a standstill.
They pledged to defy the election result and help the Labour Party seize power like the Bolsheviks in 1917, stating: ‘We will have a Red October with Jeremy Corbyn as our Prime Minister!’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612250/Militants-warn-summer-discontent.html
does this mean we will get lots of analysis of AV?TheScreamingEagles said:Sunday Times - Key dates for May are June 28th and 29th, when there's votes on the Queen's speech, 'If it looks like they will be lost, you have to strike'
FYI - Mike's holiday begins on June 29th, and I'm your guest editor for nearly three weeks.0 -
Considering Hammond was Foreign Secretary at the time he was extremely low-profile during the referendum campaign.HYUFD said:
Davis did a number for his first leadership campaign and I think Boris and Hammond did a few in the EU referendum along with RuddScott_P said:
Rudd has done more TV debates than either Hammond or DavidMikeL said:My instinct is that Rudd isn't yet proven.
Whereas I would be confident that Boris, Davis and Hammond could all fight a good campaign and perform strongly in TV debates.0 -
But... but.. but... no need to worry, he is unelectable isn't he?HYUFD said:
This is who we are dealing with, Corbyn is just a puppet, if he is elected it will be McDonnell and the Unions and Len McCluskey calling the shots, it would be the most leftwing government we have ever had, Attlee, Wilson and Callaghan were patriots not in the mould of the hard left who run Momentum and the Labour leadership nowSunil_Prasannan said:
"Comrades, this is your Leader. It is an honour to speak to you today, and I am honoured to be sailing with you on the maiden voyage of our Party's most recent achievement. Once more, we play our dangerous game, a game of chess against our old adversary — The Conservative Party. For a hundred years, your fathers before you and your older brothers played this game and played it well. But today the game is different. We have the advantage. It reminds me of the heady days of 1945 and Clement Attlee, when the world trembled at the sound of our Nationalisations! Well, they will tremble again — at the sound of our Glorious 2017 Manifesto. The order is: engage the Corbyn Drive!HYUFD said:Unions plotting 'Red October'
'Union leaders are plotting a ‘summer of discontent’ to cause chaos and force Theresa May from power.
Militants linked to Unite, rail guards, teachers and junior doctors told followers this week to prepare for co-ordinated strikes and national protests, which would bring the country to a standstill.
They pledged to defy the election result and help the Labour Party seize power like the Bolsheviks in 1917, stating: ‘We will have a Red October with Jeremy Corbyn as our Prime Minister!’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612250/Militants-warn-summer-discontent.html
"Comrades, our own Parliamentary Party don't know our full potential. They will do everything possible to test us; but they will only test their own embarrassment. We will leave our MPs behind, we will pass through the Conservative patrols, past their sonar nets, and lay off their largest constituency, and listen to their chortling and tittering... while we conduct Austerity Debates! Then, and when we are finished, the only sound they will hear is our laughter, while we sail to Brighton, where the sun is warm, and so is the... Comradeship!
"A great day, Comrades! We sail into history!"0 -
Hammond was always a Eurosceptic and in 2013 even said he would vote to leave the EU as things stood then, however he backed Remain in the end in 2016 as he felt the economic risks were too great from leaving, in some ways he would be the ideal PM we need now, someone sceptical of the EU, who understands the concerns people have about it but who also recognises the importance of access to the single market for our economy. He is probably closest of the contenders to where the average voter is nowwilliamglenn said:
Considering Hammond was Foreign Secretary at the time he was extremely low-profile during the referendum campaign.HYUFD said:
Davis did a number for his first leadership campaign and I think Boris and Hammond did a few in the EU referendum along with RuddScott_P said:
Rudd has done more TV debates than either Hammond or DavidMikeL said:My instinct is that Rudd isn't yet proven.
Whereas I would be confident that Boris, Davis and Hammond could all fight a good campaign and perform strongly in TV debates.0 -
Anybody is electable in the right circumstances, even Hitler and Mugabe got elected, that does not mean they won't be disasters once they get powerBudG said:
But... but.. but... no need to worry, he is unelectable isn't he?HYUFD said:
This is who we are dealing with, Corbyn is just a puppet, if he is elected it will be McDonnell and the Unions and Len McCluskey calling the shots, it would be the most leftwing government we have ever had, Attlee, Wilson and Callaghan were patriots not in the mould of the hard left who run Momentum and the Labour leadership nowSunil_Prasannan said:
"Comrades, this is your Leader. It is an honour to speak to you today, and I am honoured to be sailing with you on the maiden voyage of our Party's most recent achievement. Once more, we play our dangerous game, a game of chess against our old adversary — The Conservative Party. For a hundred years, your fathers before you and your older brothers played this game and played it well. But today the game is different. We have the advantage. It reminds me of the heady days of 1945 and Clement Attlee, when the world trembled at the sound of our Nationalisations! Well, they will tremble again — at the sound of our Glorious 2017 Manifesto. The order is: engage the Corbyn Drive!HYUFD said:Unions plotting 'Red October'
'Union leaders are plotting a ‘summer of discontent’ to cause chaos and force Theresa May from power.
Militants linked to Unite, rail guards, teachers and junior doctors told followers this week to prepare for co-ordinated strikes and national protests, which would bring the country to a standstill.
They pledged to defy the election result and help the Labour Party seize power like the Bolsheviks in 1917, stating: ‘We will have a Red October with Jeremy Corbyn as our Prime Minister!’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612250/Militants-warn-summer-discontent.html
"Comrades, our own Parliamentary Party don't know our full potential. They will do everything possible to test us; but they will only test their own embarrassment. We will leave our MPs behind, we will pass through the Conservative patrols, past their sonar nets, and lay off their largest constituency, and listen to their chortling and tittering... while we conduct Austerity Debates! Then, and when we are finished, the only sound they will hear is our laughter, while we sail to Brighton, where the sun is warm, and so is the... Comradeship!
"A great day, Comrades! We sail into history!"0 -
The UK is heading for a nervous breakdown. There is Northern Ireland with the Tories cosying up to the DUP. There is the impact to the economy of BREXIT, There impact to the economy of reduced immigration. The unions flexing their muscles and threatening strikes. People feeling marginalized at the fringes of society. The NHS about to implode. etc. etc. If the Tories do what they are saying they will do ...... they will never be re-elected! Maybe we should standback and let the Tories do it to Britain!0
-
Would be the best choice, as caretaker. Just take EEA off the shelf and have done. The Tory Party is in such a mess now it might as well take one for the team and help out the country. Soft as feathers Brexit and move on.HYUFD said:
Hammond was always a Eurosceptic and in 2013 even said he would vote to leave the EU as things stood then, however he backed Remain in the end in 2016 as he felt the economic risks were too great from leaving, in some ways he would be the ideal PM we need now, someone sceptical of the EU, who understands the concerns people have about it but who also recognises the importance of access to the single market for our economy. He is probably closest of the contenders to where the average voter is nowwilliamglenn said:
Considering Hammond was Foreign Secretary at the time he was extremely low-profile during the referendum campaign.HYUFD said:
Davis did a number for his first leadership campaign and I think Boris and Hammond did a few in the EU referendum along with RuddScott_P said:
Rudd has done more TV debates than either Hammond or DavidMikeL said:My instinct is that Rudd isn't yet proven.
Whereas I would be confident that Boris, Davis and Hammond could all fight a good campaign and perform strongly in TV debates.0 -
You mean that all the media and most of the PLP and most of PB were wrong? How gullible of me to believe themHYUFD said:
Anybody is electable in the right circumstances, even Hitler and Mugabe got elected, that does not mean they won't be disasters once they get powerBudG said:
But... but.. but... no need to worry, he is unelectable isn't he?HYUFD said:
This is who we are dealing with, Corbyn is just a puppet, if he is elected it will be McDonnell and the Unions and Len McCluskey calling the shots, it would be the most leftwing government we have ever had, Attlee, Wilson and Callaghan were patriots not in the mould of the hard left who run Momentum and the Labour leadership nowSunil_Prasannan said:
"Comrades, this is your Leader. It is an honour to speak to you today, and I am honoured to be sailing with you on the maiden voyage of our Party's most recent achievement. Once more, we play our dangerous game, a game of chess against our old adversary — The Conservative Party. For a hundred years, your fathers before you and your older brothers played this game and played it well. But today the game is different. We have the advantage. It reminds me of the heady days of 1945 and Clement Attlee, when the world trembled at the sound of our Nationalisations! Well, they will tremble again — at the sound of our Glorious 2017 Manifesto. The order is: engage the Corbyn Drive!HYUFD said:Unions plotting 'Red October'
'Union leaders are plotting a ‘summer of discontent’ to cause chaos and force Theresa May from power.
Militants linked to Unite, rail guards, teachers and junior doctors told followers this week to prepare for co-ordinated strikes and national protests, which would bring the country to a standstill.
They pledged to defy the election result and help the Labour Party seize power like the Bolsheviks in 1917, stating: ‘We will have a Red October with Jeremy Corbyn as our Prime Minister!’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612250/Militants-warn-summer-discontent.html
"Comrades, our own Parliamentary Party don't know our full potential. They will do everything possible to test us; but they will only test their own embarrassment. We will leave our MPs behind, we will pass through the Conservative patrols, past their sonar nets, and lay off their largest constituency, and listen to their chortling and tittering... while we conduct Austerity Debates! Then, and when we are finished, the only sound they will hear is our laughter, while we sail to Brighton, where the sun is warm, and so is the... Comradeship!
"A great day, Comrades! We sail into history!"
0 -
Guys, have a day off the Internet tomorrow. Take a nice walk, spend time with family and friends, engage with the real world and stay off those conspiracy websites/Mail Online.HYUFD said:
Anybody is electable in the right circumstances, even Hitler and Mugabe got elected, that does not mean they won't be disasters once they get powerBudG said:
But... but.. but... no need to worry, he is unelectable isn't he?HYUFD said:
This is who we are dealing with, Corbyn is just a puppet, if he is elected it will be McDonnell and the Unions and Len McCluskey calling the shots, it would be the most leftwing government we have ever had, Attlee, Wilson and Callaghan were patriots not in the mould of the hard left who run Momentum and the Labour leadership nowSunil_Prasannan said:
"Comrades, this is your Leader. It is an honour to speak to you today, and I am honoured to be sailing with you on the maiden voyage of our Party's most recent achievement. Once more, we play our dangerous game, a game of chess against our old adversary — The Conservative Party. For a hundred years, your fathers before you and your older brothers played this game and played it well. But today the game is different. We have the advantage. It reminds me of the heady days of 1945 and Clement Attlee, when the world trembled at the sound of our Nationalisations! Well, they will tremble again — at the sound of our Glorious 2017 Manifesto. The order is: engage the Corbyn Drive!HYUFD said:Unions plotting 'Red October'
'Union leaders are plotting a ‘summer of discontent’ to cause chaos and force Theresa May from power.
Militants linked to Unite, rail guards, teachers and junior doctors told followers this week to prepare for co-ordinated strikes and national protests, which would bring the country to a standstill.
They pledged to defy the election result and help the Labour Party seize power like the Bolsheviks in 1917, stating: ‘We will have a Red October with Jeremy Corbyn as our Prime Minister!’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612250/Militants-warn-summer-discontent.html
"Comrades, our own Parliamentary Party don't know our full potential. They will do everything possible to test us; but they will only test their own embarrassment. We will leave our MPs behind, we will pass through the Conservative patrols, past their sonar nets, and lay off their largest constituency, and listen to their chortling and tittering... while we conduct Austerity Debates! Then, and when we are finished, the only sound they will hear is our laughter, while we sail to Brighton, where the sun is warm, and so is the... Comradeship!
"A great day, Comrades! We sail into history!"0 -
I may eat these words, but I just don't think the unions have the power to do the things that The Mail fears and the unions dream of. I think articles like these are hyping by both sides.HYUFD said:Unions plotting 'Red October'
'Union leaders are plotting a ‘summer of discontent’ to cause chaos and force Theresa May from power.
Militants linked to Unite, rail guards, teachers and junior doctors told followers this week to prepare for co-ordinated strikes and national protests, which would bring the country to a standstill.
They pledged to defy the election result and help the Labour Party seize power like the Bolsheviks in 1917, stating: ‘We will have a Red October with Jeremy Corbyn as our Prime Minister!’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612250/Militants-warn-summer-discontent.html0 -
https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/595112367358406656HYUFD said:
Anybody is electable in the right circumstances, even Hitler and Mugabe got elected, that does not mean they won't be disasters once they get powerBudG said:
But... but.. but... no need to worry, he is unelectable isn't he?HYUFD said:
This is who we are dealing with, Corbyn is just a puppet, if he is elected it will be McDonnell and the Unions and Len McCluskey calling the shots, it would be the most leftwing government we have ever had, Attlee, Wilson and Callaghan were patriots not in the mould of the hard left who run Momentum and the Labour leadership nowSunil_Prasannan said:
"Comrades, this is your Leader. It is an honour to speak to you today, and I am honoured to be sailing with you on the maiden voyage of our Party's most recent achievement. Once more, we play our dangerous game, a game of chess against our old adversary — The Conservative Party. For a hundred years, your fathers before you and your older brothers played this game and played it well. But today the game is different. We have the advantage. It reminds me of the heady days of 1945 and Clement Attlee, when the world trembled at the sound of our Nationalisations! Well, they will tremble again — at the sound of our Glorious 2017 Manifesto. The order is: engage the Corbyn Drive!HYUFD said:Unions plotting 'Red October'
'Union leaders are plotting a ‘summer of discontent’ to cause chaos and force Theresa May from power.
Militants linked to Unite, rail guards, teachers and junior doctors told followers this week to prepare for co-ordinated strikes and national protests, which would bring the country to a standstill.
They pledged to defy the election result and help the Labour Party seize power like the Bolsheviks in 1917, stating: ‘We will have a Red October with Jeremy Corbyn as our Prime Minister!’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612250/Militants-warn-summer-discontent.html
"Comrades, our own Parliamentary Party don't know our full potential. They will do everything possible to test us; but they will only test their own embarrassment. We will leave our MPs behind, we will pass through the Conservative patrols, past their sonar nets, and lay off their largest constituency, and listen to their chortling and tittering... while we conduct Austerity Debates! Then, and when we are finished, the only sound they will hear is our laughter, while we sail to Brighton, where the sun is warm, and so is the... Comradeship!
"A great day, Comrades! We sail into history!"0 -
Swiss newspaper Der Bund says we're the laughing stock of Europe and led by a talking robot.
http://www.derbund.ch/ausland/standard/lachnummer-europas/story/293200340 -
I'm much more comfortable than I was a few years ago, actually.ScarfNZ said:The UK is heading for a nervous breakdown. There is Northern Ireland with the Tories cosying up to the DUP. There is the impact to the economy of BREXIT, There impact to the economy of reduced immigration. The unions flexing their muscles and threatening strikes. People feeling marginalized at the fringes of society. The NHS about to implode. etc. etc. If the Tories do what they are saying they will do ...... they will never be re-elected! Maybe we should standback and let the Tories do it to Britain!
Scotland independence is dead in the water. The UK will hold together fine.0 -
Anyone who spends their whole life publically criticising privilege and private education and then sending their own child to a fee paying school is capable of doing and saying anything to deflect legitimate criticism. Abbott has been doing that her entire career.Polruan said:
The problem with that statement (well, there are a few, but let's stick to just the one) is that for May to Explain away her poor performances she'd first have to admit that they were poor, something about which she still seems to be in denial. Despite Abbott's many faults, she seems to have demonstrated at least some willingness to listen to criticism. Maybe if she listens just a bit harder Labour could go into the next election with Cooper against Rudd, which would be a fight worth watching.Jason said:
That's one thing May has never resorted to - using a serious and genuinely life threatening illness, which type 1 diabetes certainly is, to explain away her poor performances. It would certainly be easy for her to do so.ydoethur said:
Yes, that seems fair. Certainly he's clearly less dangerous than Macdonnell although Macdonnell is also clearly very able.Bobajob_PB said:
I have this theory that Corbyn is the most moderate, of the Labour inner circle. He is a bloody good campaigner - the best in parliament probably. But he needs sensible people around him. I was wrong about him in the sense that I was astounded by how good his is on the stump. But that's not to say the inner circle needs no modification, it does.
Have to say I'm not quite sure it was a great campaign: I think it looked good because (a) everyone was expecting a retread of 1983 on speed and (b) the Conservative campaign which got all the attention was an utter shambles. But certainly he looked much happier and as though he fet he belonged.
A purge might help. I Abbott still needs retiring, and as somebody who periodically suffers memory problems due to stress I have spent the last ten days feeling like a worm for mocking her now it appears there really was a medical problem - and Milne and Macdonnell still need to be removed to somewhere in line with their talents (former) and personalities (latter) (co-chairmen of Leicestershire Trawlers Inspectorate perhaps)?
But he has confounded his critics including me.
And with that, good night.
As for Diane Abbott, I wouldn't put any level of cynicism or chicanery past her. She has form. Blunt, but there you are.
May has been badly exposed, but she is a million times more honourable than a grubby little hypocrite like Diane Abbott could ever be.0 -
The same Switzerland that is not in the EU or the EEA and which has the nationalist Swiss People's Party as the largest party in its Parliament?williamglenn said:Swiss newspaper Der Bund says we're the laughing stock of Europe and led by a talking robot.
http://www.derbund.ch/ausland/standard/lachnummer-europas/story/293200340 -
Ed Miliband would equally have had to listen to Len McCluskey but at least we would have been spared McDonnell!Monkeys said:
https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/595112367358406656HYUFD said:
Anybody is electable in the right circumstances, even Hitler and Mugabe got elected, that does not mean they won't be disasters once they get powerBudG said:
But... but.. but... no need to worry, he is unelectable isn't he?HYUFD said:
This is who we are dealing with, Corbyn is just a puppet, if he is elected it will be McDonnell and the Unions and Len McCluskey calling the shots, it would be the most leftwing government we have ever had, Attlee, Wilson and Callaghan were patriots not in the mould of the hard left who run Momentum and the Labour leadership nowSunil_Prasannan said:
"Comrades, this is your Leader. It is an honour to speak to you today, and I am honoured to be sailing with you on the maiden voyage of our Party's most recent achievement. Once more, we play our dangerous game, a game of chess against our old adversary — The Conservative Party. For a hundred years, your fathers before you and your older brothers played this game and played it well. But today the game is different. We have the advantage. It reminds me of the heady days of 1945 and Clement Attlee, when the world trembled at the sound of our Nationalisations! Well, they will tremble again — at the sound of our Glorious 2017 Manifesto. The order is: engage the Corbyn Drive!HYUFD said:Unions plotting 'Red October'
'Union leaders are plotting a ‘summer of discontent’ to cause chaos and force Theresa May from power.
Militants linked to Unite, rail guards, teachers and junior doctors told followers this week to prepare for co-ordinated strikes and national protests, which would bring the country to a standstill.
They pledged to defy the election result and help the Labour Party seize power like the Bolsheviks in 1917, stating: ‘We will have a Red October with Jeremy Corbyn as our Prime Minister!’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612250/Militants-warn-summer-discontent.html
"Comrades, our own Parliamentary Party don't know our full potential. They will do everything possible to test us; but they will only test their own embarrassment. We will leave our MPs behind, we will pass through the Conservative patrols, past their sonar nets, and lay off their largest constituency, and listen to their chortling and tittering... while we conduct Austerity Debates! Then, and when we are finished, the only sound they will hear is our laughter, while we sail to Brighton, where the sun is warm, and so is the... Comradeship!
"A great day, Comrades! We sail into history!"0 -
Nearly 500 MPs were elected on a pro-Brexit platform, supporting the referendum result of the year before.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hard Brexit is over, indeed Brexit looks uncertainTheScreamingEagles said:However, a Survation poll for this newspaper found that more than two thirds of voters – 69 per cent – support Mr Hammond’s soft Brexit approach. There is also strong opposition to Mrs May’s declaration that ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’, with 65 per cent calling for the UK to leave the EU with some form of agreement in place. And there is now a majority in favour of holding a second referendum to approve the Brexit deal.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4614222/Theresa-fights-political-life.html
If you notice, on here as on elsewhere, it is only hardcore Remainers who are constantly pushing the renege-on-Brexit line.0 -
Yes, he has a first from Oxford, speaks fluent French and has a business background all of which makes him ideal for the negotiations, plus as a John Major clone he may even be able to win an electionBobajob_PB said:
Would be the best choice, as caretaker. Just take EEA off the shelf and have done. The Tory Party is in such a mess now it might as well take one for the team and help out the country. Soft as feathers Brexit and move on.HYUFD said:
Hammond was always a Eurosceptic and in 2013 even said he would vote to leave the EU as things stood then, however he backed Remain in the end in 2016 as he felt the economic risks were too great from leaving, in some ways he would be the ideal PM we need now, someone sceptical of the EU, who understands the concerns people have about it but who also recognises the importance of access to the single market for our economy. He is probably closest of the contenders to where the average voter is nowwilliamglenn said:
Considering Hammond was Foreign Secretary at the time he was extremely low-profile during the referendum campaign.HYUFD said:
Davis did a number for his first leadership campaign and I think Boris and Hammond did a few in the EU referendum along with RuddScott_P said:
Rudd has done more TV debates than either Hammond or DavidMikeL said:My instinct is that Rudd isn't yet proven.
Whereas I would be confident that Boris, Davis and Hammond could all fight a good campaign and perform strongly in TV debates.0 -
We all underestimated CorbynBudG said:
You mean that all the media and most of the PLP and most of PB were wrong? How gullible of me to believe themHYUFD said:
Anybody is electable in the right circumstances, even Hitler and Mugabe got elected, that does not mean they won't be disasters once they get powerBudG said:
But... but.. but... no need to worry, he is unelectable isn't he?HYUFD said:
This is who we are dealing with, Corbyn is just a puppet, if he is elected it will be McDonnell and the Unions and Len McCluskey calling the shots, it would be the most leftwing government we have ever had, Attlee, Wilson and Callaghan were patriots not in the mould of the hard left who run Momentum and the Labour leadership nowSunil_Prasannan said:
"Comrades, this is your Leader. It is an honour to speak to you today, and I am honoured to be sailing with you on the maiden voyage of our Party's most recent achievement. Once more, we play our dangerous game, a game of chess against our old adversary — The Conservative Party. For a hundred years, your fathers before you and your older brothers played this game and played it well. But today the game is different. We have the advantage. It reminds me of the heady days of 1945 and Clement Attlee, when the world trembled at the sound of our Nationalisations! Well, they will tremble again — at the sound of our Glorious 2017 Manifesto. The order is: engage the Corbyn Drive!HYUFD said:Unions plotting 'Red October'
'Union leaders are plotting a ‘summer of discontent’ to cause chaos and force Theresa May from power.
Militants linked to Unite, rail guards, teachers and junior doctors told followers this week to prepare for co-ordinated strikes and national protests, which would bring the country to a standstill.
They pledged to defy the election result and help the Labour Party seize power like the Bolsheviks in 1917, stating: ‘We will have a Red October with Jeremy Corbyn as our Prime Minister!’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612250/Militants-warn-summer-discontent.html
"Comrades, our own Parliamentary Party don't know our full potential. They will do everything possible to test us; but they will only test their own embarrassment. We will leave our MPs behind, we will pass through the Conservative patrols, past their sonar nets, and lay off their largest constituency, and listen to their chortling and tittering... while we conduct Austerity Debates! Then, and when we are finished, the only sound they will hear is our laughter, while we sail to Brighton, where the sun is warm, and so is the... Comradeship!
"A great day, Comrades! We sail into history!"0 -
Is that what you want, though?AlastairMeeks said:
For those of us who aren't Conservatives, it's hugely enjoyable. From the outside, the solution is obvious (Hammond as PM, Davis in charge of Brexit, aim to negotiate a Brexit deal that the House will support, i.e. one which is much softer than the headbangers dreamed of). But right now there seem to be a lot of Conservatives who haven't noticed that the election result pulled the rug from under them and that they can't dictate unilaterally what happens any more.Mortimer said:
Agreed. There is far too much hysteria going on at the moment.AlastairMeeks said:It's not really my concern, but if the Conservatives don't hang together, they'll hang separately. None of them can afford to stand on principles.
I thought you wanted a hard-as-nails Brexit, in the hope it all goes horribly wrong and we end up rejoining with our tail between our legs.0 -
Agreed.AlastairMeeks said:It's not really my concern, but if the Conservatives don't hang together, they'll hang separately. None of them can afford to stand on principles.
The. Conservatives. Can't. Afford. One. Rebel.0 -
Not me, ahem.HYUFD said:We all underestimated Corbyn
From last August
There’s a danger that we’re underestimating the Labour leader.
Outside of the Corbynites, the idée reçue amongst most of us is that Jeremy Corbyn leading Labour at a general election is going to lead Labour to experiencing an extinction level electoral defeat. On my most charitable days I’ll say Jeremy Corbyn has only two flaws, everything he says, and everything he does, but I’m going to challenge that perception and defend Jeremy Corbyn.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/08/30/in-praise-of-jeremy-corbyn/0 -
McDonnell will use the muscle and manpower of the Unions to force through the revolution as much as he canQuincel said:
I may eat these words, but I just don't think the unions have the power to do the things that The Mail fears and the unions dream of. I think articles like these are hyping by both sides.HYUFD said:Unions plotting 'Red October'
'Union leaders are plotting a ‘summer of discontent’ to cause chaos and force Theresa May from power.
Militants linked to Unite, rail guards, teachers and junior doctors told followers this week to prepare for co-ordinated strikes and national protests, which would bring the country to a standstill.
They pledged to defy the election result and help the Labour Party seize power like the Bolsheviks in 1917, stating: ‘We will have a Red October with Jeremy Corbyn as our Prime Minister!’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612250/Militants-warn-summer-discontent.html0 -
Yes. The future hasn't been written yet.SeanT said:
Indeed. I think the Far Left will over-reach (unless Corbyn himself decides to tack right - not unthinkable)Bobajob_PB said:
I think there's some truth in that, actually. I don't think a Labour victory, if the government falls, is guaranteed. If Corbyn modified, and embraced centrist MPs, it would be a shoo-in. But no signs of that, yet.SeanT said:
It really isn't united. All the lefties I know are massively conflicted. They are glad the Tories didn't get a landslide, yet they still deeply mistrust, even loathe, Corbyn and his gang,Jonathan said:
Labour doesn't think it needs sorting out. It has a popular leader, with popular policies. It has political momentum, is within a dozen seats of power,, a weak opponent and is more united than it has been in years.ydoethur said:
Part of Cameron's prtry as well?Jonathan said:
Fair enough I would have thought he was uniquely qualified to unfuck the Tory party and have enough experience to dive into government Brexit negotiations.TheScreamingEagles said:
He was the front man for the rejected side.Jonathan said:
He wasn't rejected. The EU was.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope he doesn't.Jonathan said:
Nope, he doesn't. Or nope you wouldn't?TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope.Jonathan said:Talking of longshots.
Wondering if Dave fancies another go.
He's done his duty, plus he believes once you've been rejected by the country, you shouldn't come back.
Plus he's enjoying spending time with his family.
If we had another election, with a Corbyn government as a significant possibility, I reckon most of them would abstain.
Add to this the increasingly unavoidable fact that Corbyn Loves Brexit, and I think this means Labour would lose all their gains in Remainery England in a new election.
Corbyn could sidestep this problem by finally changing his principles. I wonder if the vanity of an ageing man (which I know well) might be enough to provoke such a move.
They are tantalisingly close to seizing government in one of THE great western democracies Heavens to Betsy, that's gotta be exciting.
It will over-excite them. In the coming months they will call for marches and protests and riots and in response everyone will think, hmm, oo-er, no, God, not that lot. And the Tories, however shit, would sneak another win, if we had another GE in the next two or three years.0 -
Look below the line. People slowly but surely starting to reback the Tories on this one - the fire is being disgustingly politicized by the media and it isn't a good look.Casino_Royale said:
Nearly 500 MPs were elected on a pro-Brexit platform, supporting the referendum result of the year before.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hard Brexit is over, indeed Brexit looks uncertainTheScreamingEagles said:However, a Survation poll for this newspaper found that more than two thirds of voters – 69 per cent – support Mr Hammond’s soft Brexit approach. There is also strong opposition to Mrs May’s declaration that ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’, with 65 per cent calling for the UK to leave the EU with some form of agreement in place. And there is now a majority in favour of holding a second referendum to approve the Brexit deal.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4614222/Theresa-fights-political-life.html
If you notice, on here as on elsewhere, it is only hardcore Remainers who are constantly pushing the renege-on-Brexit line.0 -
The impact on the economy of reducing immigration? What, you mean we might actually have to train up more of our own people rather than import them all from abroad? God forbid!ScarfNZ said:The UK is heading for a nervous breakdown. There is Northern Ireland with the Tories cosying up to the DUP. There is the impact to the economy of BREXIT, There impact to the economy of reduced immigration. The unions flexing their muscles and threatening strikes. People feeling marginalized at the fringes of society. The NHS about to implode. etc. etc. If the Tories do what they are saying they will do ...... they will never be re-elected! Maybe we should standback and let the Tories do it to Britain!
Anyone would think this country has always had yearly net immigration figures of 330,000+. It is a relatively recent phenomenon, starting from the Blair era. I'm fairly sure the country can survive going back to sensible levels. God forbid, it may actually aid community cohesion, which is in a pitiful state, judging by who carried out recent terrorist attacks on our soil.
Regarding the strikes, the unions always threaten them. It's what unions do. It's their raison d'etre. Especially during Tory administrations. This latest round is Express guff, and won't happen.
And then the NHS is always about to 'implode'. It's been imploding since anyone can remember. In fact, probably since 1951, when Churchill got back in.
Anyway, I'm off to bed.0 -
An interesting and perceptive article although for myself I did predict Corbyn would make gains in Scotland at least, which he didTheScreamingEagles said:
Not me, ahem.HYUFD said:We all underestimated Corbyn
From last August
There’s a danger that we’re underestimating the Labour leader.
Outside of the Corbynites, the idée reçue amongst most of us is that Jeremy Corbyn leading Labour at a general election is going to lead Labour to experiencing an extinction level electoral defeat. On my most charitable days I’ll say Jeremy Corbyn has only two flaws, everything he says, and everything he does, but I’m going to challenge that perception and defend Jeremy Corbyn.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/08/30/in-praise-of-jeremy-corbyn/0 -
Yes, but that's not what you really thought, was it? It was a piece to provoke a reaction.TheScreamingEagles said:
Not me, ahem.HYUFD said:We all underestimated Corbyn
From last August
There’s a danger that we’re underestimating the Labour leader.
Outside of the Corbynites, the idée reçue amongst most of us is that Jeremy Corbyn leading Labour at a general election is going to lead Labour to experiencing an extinction level electoral defeat. On my most charitable days I’ll say Jeremy Corbyn has only two flaws, everything he says, and everything he does, but I’m going to challenge that perception and defend Jeremy Corbyn.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/08/30/in-praise-of-jeremy-corbyn/0 -
Why do we need to hear this?SeanT said:
I'm drunk and happy. Today I had an orgasm with my girlfriend that was so intense it made my head wobble, like a mildly doubtful Hindu shopkeeper.Bobajob_PB said:
Yes Sean, the world is great when you are surrounded by wealthy Lefties. Don't leave - you wouldn't like the world outside.SeanT said:
Indeed. Life here, on Primrose Hill Borders, is so sweet we don't even CARE what day it is.Jonathan said:
It's Saturday.SeanT said:The irony is that London has never felt more affluent, confident and agreeable than on this dulcet Sunday evening.
I went for a walk through Primrose Hill and Regent's Park just now. It was a sea of happy picnickers, of all races, ages, and sizes, guzzling wine, hummus and champagne, from beginning to end.
True Story.0 -
I am increasingly worried by Sean T's state of mind. The sort of delusions of grandeur he is increasingly exhibiting may have an unsavoury medical explanationTheScreamingEagles said:A cabinet minister told friends he was 'worried about [May's] state of mind'
OUCH.0 -
-
Hard or soft Brexit is almost irrelevant to the negotiating position of the EU.
For example on citizens' rights, even if we went for the EEA option, it would not circumvent the need for legal guarantees, especially if Brexiteers were advertising the fact that they saw the EEA merely as a holding pattern while they work on a different long-term relationship.0 -
I never write to provoke.Jason said:
Yes, but that's not what you really thought, was it? It was a piece to provoke a reaction.TheScreamingEagles said:
Not me, ahem.HYUFD said:We all underestimated Corbyn
From last August
There’s a danger that we’re underestimating the Labour leader.
Outside of the Corbynites, the idée reçue amongst most of us is that Jeremy Corbyn leading Labour at a general election is going to lead Labour to experiencing an extinction level electoral defeat. On my most charitable days I’ll say Jeremy Corbyn has only two flaws, everything he says, and everything he does, but I’m going to challenge that perception and defend Jeremy Corbyn.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/08/30/in-praise-of-jeremy-corbyn/0 -
I think many of the public are angry, but they mostly want a competent Government that both listens to them and takes them to sunnier climes.Pulpstar said:
Look below the line. People slowly but surely starting to reback the Tories on this one - the fire is being disgustingly politicized by the media and it isn't a good look.Casino_Royale said:
Nearly 500 MPs were elected on a pro-Brexit platform, supporting the referendum result of the year before.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hard Brexit is over, indeed Brexit looks uncertainTheScreamingEagles said:However, a Survation poll for this newspaper found that more than two thirds of voters – 69 per cent – support Mr Hammond’s soft Brexit approach. There is also strong opposition to Mrs May’s declaration that ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’, with 65 per cent calling for the UK to leave the EU with some form of agreement in place. And there is now a majority in favour of holding a second referendum to approve the Brexit deal.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4614222/Theresa-fights-political-life.html
If you notice, on here as on elsewhere, it is only hardcore Remainers who are constantly pushing the renege-on-Brexit line.0 -
Who cares?williamglenn said:Swiss newspaper Der Bund says we're the laughing stock of Europe and led by a talking robot.
http://www.derbund.ch/ausland/standard/lachnummer-europas/story/293200340 -
I do not think May can stay for two years. But you are right that a long leadership election is out of the question. We need to follow the Magic Circle of old where the leader emerges following the customary processes of consultation. There would be a token election with one candidate.FF43 said:
If Theresa May lasts for two years, sees the immediately pressing Article 50 process through and then resigns, you would have the opportunity of a midterm election lasting a couple of months. As that Article 50 clock is ticking and they have already wasted three out of the ludicrously tight 18 months on an unnecessary election, there isn't the luxury of time.Tykejohnno said:
But won't the grassroots want a say this time ?FF43 said:
That would depend on the two last standing candidates fixing the succession between them. So if it's Alastair's "Dream Team" of Hammond and Davis, the latter withdraws to allow Hammond to be PM in exchange for an understanding on Brexit policy and Davis' role in implementing it.Tykejohnno said:
So no leadership contest this time ? like with May.TheScreamingEagles said:
In 2003, the vote of confidence in IDS was triggered on the Tuesday 28th of October, and the vote was held on Wednesday 29th of October.Tykejohnno said:Anyone here know how long it would take to get a new leader/PM in place when a no confidence is triggered.(If that is how it works)
We have a country to run.
Michael Howard became Tory leader on the 6th of November.0 -
He'd make Walter Mitty blush.franklyn said:
I am increasingly worried by Sean T's state of mind. The sort of delusions of grandeur he is increasingly exhibiting may have an unsavoury medical explanationTheScreamingEagles said:A cabinet minister told friends he was 'worried about [May's] state of mind'
OUCH.0 -
You're a sly one, TSE.TheScreamingEagles said:
I never write to provoke.Jason said:
Yes, but that's not what you really thought, was it? It was a piece to provoke a reaction.TheScreamingEagles said:
Not me, ahem.HYUFD said:We all underestimated Corbyn
From last August
There’s a danger that we’re underestimating the Labour leader.
Outside of the Corbynites, the idée reçue amongst most of us is that Jeremy Corbyn leading Labour at a general election is going to lead Labour to experiencing an extinction level electoral defeat. On my most charitable days I’ll say Jeremy Corbyn has only two flaws, everything he says, and everything he does, but I’m going to challenge that perception and defend Jeremy Corbyn.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/08/30/in-praise-of-jeremy-corbyn/0 -
You yourself have said Brexit will lead to a short term hit for the economy.Casino_Royale said:
I think many of the public are angry, but they mostly want a competent Government that both listens to them and takes them to sunnier climes.Pulpstar said:
Look below the line. People slowly but surely starting to reback the Tories on this one - the fire is being disgustingly politicized by the media and it isn't a good look.Casino_Royale said:
Nearly 500 MPs were elected on a pro-Brexit platform, supporting the referendum result of the year before.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hard Brexit is over, indeed Brexit looks uncertainTheScreamingEagles said:However, a Survation poll for this newspaper found that more than two thirds of voters – 69 per cent – support Mr Hammond’s soft Brexit approach. There is also strong opposition to Mrs May’s declaration that ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’, with 65 per cent calling for the UK to leave the EU with some form of agreement in place. And there is now a majority in favour of holding a second referendum to approve the Brexit deal.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4614222/Theresa-fights-political-life.html
If you notice, on here as on elsewhere, it is only hardcore Remainers who are constantly pushing the renege-on-Brexit line.
So if the voters wants sunnier climes, Brexit won't do it for them.0 -
Read that before. In 2010......ScarfNZ said:...... they will never be re-elected!
0 -
Running a surplus does not make a council responsible for a fire, we will have a full inquiry to decide precisely what caused itDadge said:
0 -
Note: short-term.TheScreamingEagles said:
You yourself have said Brexit will lead to a short term hit for the economy.Casino_Royale said:
I think many of the public are angry, but they mostly want a competent Government that both listens to them and takes them to sunnier climes.Pulpstar said:
Look below the line. People slowly but surely starting to reback the Tories on this one - the fire is being disgustingly politicized by the media and it isn't a good look.Casino_Royale said:
Nearly 500 MPs were elected on a pro-Brexit platform, supporting the referendum result of the year before.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hard Brexit is over, indeed Brexit looks uncertainTheScreamingEagles said:However, a Survation poll for this newspaper found that more than two thirds of voters – 69 per cent – support Mr Hammond’s soft Brexit approach. There is also strong opposition to Mrs May’s declaration that ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’, with 65 per cent calling for the UK to leave the EU with some form of agreement in place. And there is now a majority in favour of holding a second referendum to approve the Brexit deal.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4614222/Theresa-fights-political-life.html
If you notice, on here as on elsewhere, it is only hardcore Remainers who are constantly pushing the renege-on-Brexit line.
So if the voters wants sunnier climes, Brexit won't do it for them.
You can't exit an economic union of over 40 years standing "cost free".
We knew this, and it was extensively debated during the referendum campaign.0 -
Sadly there's several Tory MPs who disagree.Casino_Royale said:
Note: short-term.TheScreamingEagles said:
You yourself have said Brexit will lead to a short term hit for the economy.Casino_Royale said:
I think many of the public are angry, but they mostly want a competent Government that both listens to them and takes them to sunnier climes.Pulpstar said:
Look below the line. People slowly but surely starting to reback the Tories on this one - the fire is being disgustingly politicized by the media and it isn't a good look.Casino_Royale said:
Nearly 500 MPs were elected on a pro-Brexit platform, supporting the referendum result of the year before.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hard Brexit is over, indeed Brexit looks uncertainTheScreamingEagles said:However, a Survation poll for this newspaper found that more than two thirds of voters – 69 per cent – support Mr Hammond’s soft Brexit approach. There is also strong opposition to Mrs May’s declaration that ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’, with 65 per cent calling for the UK to leave the EU with some form of agreement in place. And there is now a majority in favour of holding a second referendum to approve the Brexit deal.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4614222/Theresa-fights-political-life.html
If you notice, on here as on elsewhere, it is only hardcore Remainers who are constantly pushing the renege-on-Brexit line.
So if the voters wants sunnier climes, Brexit won't do it for them.
You can't exit an economic union of over 40 years standing "cost free".
We knew this, and it was extensively debated during the referendum campaign.
Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation
http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2016/07/17/getting-out-of-the-eu-can-be-quick-and-easy-the-uk-holds-most-of-the-cards-in-any-negotiation/0 -
This is true but the party platforms, and people's votes, still mask a great deal of disagreement and uncertainty. Not to mention that most people voted for a party for reasons other than Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Nearly 500 MPs were elected on a pro-Brexit platform, supporting the referendum result of the year before.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hard Brexit is over, indeed Brexit looks uncertainTheScreamingEagles said:However, a Survation poll for this newspaper found that more than two thirds of voters – 69 per cent – support Mr Hammond’s soft Brexit approach. There is also strong opposition to Mrs May’s declaration that ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’, with 65 per cent calling for the UK to leave the EU with some form of agreement in place. And there is now a majority in favour of holding a second referendum to approve the Brexit deal.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4614222/Theresa-fights-political-life.html
If you notice, on here as on elsewhere, it is only hardcore Remainers who are constantly pushing the renege-on-Brexit line.
Pursuing a Tory Brexit risks alienating voters from other parties. (Just as many voters perceived Remain as a Tory project because it was led by Cameron.)
Questions that voters are expecting a positive answer to include: Will Brexit save us money? Will it be easy to retire to Spain? Will my job be safe? Will hospitals and farms be adequately staffed? Will immigration be lower? etc. If the answers to any of these questions is no, that's a tranche of voters who'll be unhappy with the Tory Brexit.
I think a lot of people, if asked would you rather have no Brexit than a Brexit you disagree with, would opt to stay in.0 -
Corbynista calls for May to be beheaded
https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/8761344220384174080 -
The Conservatives could have really done with holding Kensington, Crewe and Nantwich, Keighley, Canterbury, and gaining Perth and North Perthshire.
Bloody 525 votes in it, and an effective overall majority.0 -
I think in your heart of hearts you know that reneging on the Brexit referendum result wouldn't be healthy for democracy, or the UK, yet alone the Conservative Party.TheScreamingEagles said:
Sadly there's several Tory MPs who disagree.Casino_Royale said:
Note: short-term.TheScreamingEagles said:
You yourself have said Brexit will lead to a short term hit for the economy.Casino_Royale said:
I think many of the public are angry, but they mostly want a competent Government that both listens to them and takes them to sunnier climes.Pulpstar said:
Look below the line. People slowly but surely starting to reback the Tories on this one - the fire is being disgustingly politicized by the media and it isn't a good look.Casino_Royale said:
Nearly 500 MPs were elected on a pro-Brexit platform, supporting the referendum result of the year before.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hard Brexit is over, indeed Brexit looks uncertainTheScreamingEagles said:However, a Survation poll for this newspaper found that more than two thirds of voters – 69 per cent – support Mr Hammond’s soft Brexit approach. There is also strong opposition to Mrs May’s declaration that ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’, with 65 per cent calling for the UK to leave the EU with some form of agreement in place. And there is now a majority in favour of holding a second referendum to approve the Brexit deal.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4614222/Theresa-fights-political-life.html
If you notice, on here as on elsewhere, it is only hardcore Remainers who are constantly pushing the renege-on-Brexit line.
So if the voters wants sunnier climes, Brexit won't do it for them.
You can't exit an economic union of over 40 years standing "cost free".
We knew this, and it was extensively debated during the referendum campaign.
Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation
http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2016/07/17/getting-out-of-the-eu-can-be-quick-and-easy-the-uk-holds-most-of-the-cards-in-any-negotiation/
I am open to a deal that works for all, and is sensible.
Meet me in the middle.0 -
A letter which completely ignores the reality of who organised the renovations and where the money came from. Whoever wrote it is deluded - as is Greer for thinking it is accurate.Dadge said:0 -
My point is it's not a Tory Brexit. Both main parties have been elected on a manifesto leave the single market.Dadge said:
This is true but the party platforms, and people's votes, still mask a great deal of disagreement and uncertainty. Not to mention that most people voted for a party for reasons other than Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Nearly 500 MPs were elected on a pro-Brexit platform, supporting the referendum result of the year before.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hard Brexit is over, indeed Brexit looks uncertainTheScreamingEagles said:However, a Survation poll for this newspaper found that more than two thirds of voters – 69 per cent – support Mr Hammond’s soft Brexit approach. There is also strong opposition to Mrs May’s declaration that ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’, with 65 per cent calling for the UK to leave the EU with some form of agreement in place. And there is now a majority in favour of holding a second referendum to approve the Brexit deal.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4614222/Theresa-fights-political-life.html
If you notice, on here as on elsewhere, it is only hardcore Remainers who are constantly pushing the renege-on-Brexit line.
Pursuing a Tory Brexit risks alienating voters from other parties. (Just as many voters perceived Remain as a Tory project because it was led by Cameron.)
Questions that voters are expecting a positive answer to include: Will Brexit save us money? Will it be easy to retire to Spain? Will my job be safe? Will hospitals and farms be adequately staffed? Will immigration be lower? etc. If the answers to any of these questions is no, that's a tranche of voters who'll be unhappy with the Tory Brexit.
I think a lot of people, if asked would you rather have no Brexit than a Brexit you disagree with, would opt to stay in.
A cross-party arrangement for unity on the detail would be great.
Can you see that happening, yet alone working?0 -
He has bad teethHYUFD said:Corbynista calls for May to be beheaded
https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/8761344220384174080 -
Although that is the least of his problems by the looks of thingsCharles said:
He has bad teethHYUFD said:Corbynista calls for May to be beheaded
https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/8761344220384174080 -
In my heart of hearts I know Brexit is going to be a total clusterfuck. I knew that all along actually. The only reason for giving it time of day is that is a democratically mandated clusterfuck. Even so that mandate was given on a set of false premises. As those false premises unwind, it gets a bit uncertainCasino_Royale said:
I think in your heart of hearts you know that reneging on the Brexit referendum result wouldn't be healthy for democracy, or the UK, yet alone the Conservative Party.TheScreamingEagles said:
Sadly there's several Tory MPs who disagree.Casino_Royale said:
Note: short-term.TheScreamingEagles said:
You yourself have said Brexit will lead to a short term hit for the economy.Casino_Royale said:
I think many of the public are angry, but they mostly want a competent Government that both listens to them and takes them to sunnier climes.Pulpstar said:
Look below the line. People slowly but surely starting to reback the Tories on this one - the fire is being disgustingly politicized by the media and it isn't a good look.Casino_Royale said:
Nearly 500 MPs were elected on a pro-Brexit platform, supporting the referendum result of the year before.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hard Brexit is over, indeed Brexit looks uncertainTheScreamingEagles said:However, a Survation poll for this newspaper found that more than two thirds of voters – 69 per cent – support Mr Hammond’s soft Brexit approach. There is also strong opposition to Mrs May’s declaration that ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’, with 65 per cent calling for the UK to leave the EU with some form of agreement in place. And there is now a majority in favour of holding a second referendum to approve the Brexit deal.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4614222/Theresa-fights-political-life.html
If you notice, on here as on elsewhere, it is only hardcore Remainers who are constantly pushing the renege-on-Brexit line.
So if the voters wants sunnier climes, Brexit won't do it for them.
You can't exit an economic union of over 40 years standing "cost free".
We knew this, and it was extensively debated during the referendum campaign.
Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation
http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2016/07/17/getting-out-of-the-eu-can-be-quick-and-easy-the-uk-holds-most-of-the-cards-in-any-negotiation/
I am open to a deal that works for all, and is sensible.
Meet me in the middle.0 -
-
Must be true, it's in the Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/17/theresa-may-cancels-2018-queens-speech-dup-pact-hangs-balance/0 -
I think that makes sense in terms of preventing bills being dropped at the end of the session.OchEye said:Must be true, it's in the Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/17/theresa-may-cancels-2018-queens-speech-dup-pact-hangs-balance/0 -
But causes all sorts of problems with the Parliament Act and the fact the Salisbury convention doesn't apply.RobD said:
I think that makes sense in terms of preventing bills being dropped at the end of the session.OchEye said:Must be true, it's in the Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/17/theresa-may-cancels-2018-queens-speech-dup-pact-hangs-balance/0 -
NZ is picking up a lot of doctors and nurses from the NHS ..... every cloud!KentRising said:
The impact on the economy of reducing immigration? What, you mean we might actually have to train up more of our own people rather than import them all from abroad? God forbid!ScarfNZ said:The UK is heading for a nervous breakdown. There is Northern Ireland with the Tories cosying up to the DUP. There is the impact to the economy of BREXIT, There impact to the economy of reduced immigration. The unions flexing their muscles and threatening strikes. People feeling marginalized at the fringes of society. The NHS about to implode. etc. etc. If the Tories do what they are saying they will do ...... they will never be re-elected! Maybe we should standback and let the Tories do it to Britain!
Anyone would think this country has always had yearly net immigration figures of 330,000+. It is a relatively recent phenomenon, starting from the Blair era. I'm fairly sure the country can survive going back to sensible levels. God forbid, it may actually aid community cohesion, which is in a pitiful state, judging by who carried out recent terrorist attacks on our soil.
Regarding the strikes, the unions always threaten them. It's what unions do. It's their raison d'etre. Especially during Tory administrations. This latest round is Express guff, and won't happen.
And then the NHS is always about to 'implode'. It's been imploding since anyone can remember. In fact, probably since 1951, when Churchill got back in.
Anyway, I'm off to bed.
Who is going to pick your vegetables in Lincolnshire or provide care to the elderly?
It is going to take time and money to train the UK unemployed to do skilled jobs. Are you already investing in training?
When the passporting rules go in the City .... what are you going to do to replace the revenue?
How are you going to compete with Europe manufacturers when UK produced goods have got to pay a tariff to enter the EU?
What is going to happen when the UK airlines can no longer fly to Europe when you withdraw from the existing arrangements?
The list goes on and on.
The Tories don't have a plan for anything. And if you don't have a plan ..... you are planning to fail!-1 -
The people voted to leave the single market and customs union, and for £350m per week for the NHS.Casino_Royale said:
I think in your heart of hearts you know that reneging on the Brexit referendum result wouldn't be healthy for democracy, or the UK, yet alone the Conservative Party.TheScreamingEagles said:
Sadly there's several Tory MPs who disagree.Casino_Royale said:
Note: short-term.TheScreamingEagles said:
You yourself have said Brexit will lead to a short term hit for the economy.Casino_Royale said:
I think many of the public are angry, but they mostly want a competent Government that both listens to them and takes them to sunnier climes.Pulpstar said:
Look below the line. People slowly but surely starting to reback the Tories on this one - the fire is being disgustingly politicized by the media and it isn't a good look.Casino_Royale said:
Nearly 500 MPs were elected on a pro-Brexit platform, supporting the referendum result of the year before.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hard Brexit is over, indeed Brexit looks uncertainTheScreamingEagles said:However, a Survation poll for this newspaper found that more than two thirds of voters – 69 per cent – support Mr Hammond’s soft Brexit approach. There is also strong opposition to Mrs May’s declaration that ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’, with 65 per cent calling for the UK to leave the EU with some form of agreement in place. And there is now a majority in favour of holding a second referendum to approve the Brexit deal.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4614222/Theresa-fights-political-life.html
If you notice, on here as on elsewhere, it is only hardcore Remainers who are constantly pushing the renege-on-Brexit line.
So if the voters wants sunnier climes, Brexit won't do it for them.
You can't exit an economic union of over 40 years standing "cost free".
We knew this, and it was extensively debated during the referendum campaign.
Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation
http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2016/07/17/getting-out-of-the-eu-can-be-quick-and-easy-the-uk-holds-most-of-the-cards-in-any-negotiation/
I am open to a deal that works for all, and is sensible.
Meet me in the middle.
That must be honoured.0 -
Well nothing is set in stone. If the Lords are being a truculent bunch they might change their minds.TheScreamingEagles said:
But causes all sorts of problems with the Parliament Act and the fact the Salisbury convention doesn't apply.RobD said:
I think that makes sense in terms of preventing bills being dropped at the end of the session.OchEye said:Must be true, it's in the Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/17/theresa-may-cancels-2018-queens-speech-dup-pact-hangs-balance/0 -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/17/analysis-caretaker-prime-minister-stays-will-not-fight-another/
Has anyone asked this simple question ? Why should Theresa May accept this humiliation ?0 -
The false promises came from Cameron and Remain with their phoney claims of opt outs and getting a good deal for the UK. Remain lost because of lies but they were not lies told by the Leave campaign but those told by the Remain campaign and Cameron. The public saw through them and that is why you lost.FF43 said:
In my heart of hearts I know Brexit is going to be a total clusterfuck. I knew that all along actually. The only reason for giving it time of day is that is a democratically mandated clusterfuck. Even so that mandate was given on a set of false premises. As those false premises unwind, it gets a bit uncertain0 -
-
Speaking as a Remainer, the fact that May decided that Brexit would be a Tory project is good news - it's discredited it in almost everyone's eyes (in the UK and in the EU), and everyone is only going along with it because of the democratic imperative.Casino_Royale said:
My point is it's not a Tory Brexit. Both main parties have been elected on a manifesto leave the single market.Dadge said:
This is true but the party platforms, and people's votes, still mask a great deal of disagreement and uncertainty. Not to mention that most people voted for a party for reasons other than Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
Nearly 500 MPs were elected on a pro-Brexit platform, supporting the referendum result of the year before.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hard Brexit is over, indeed Brexit looks uncertain
If you notice, on here as on elsewhere, it is only hardcore Remainers who are constantly pushing the renege-on-Brexit line.
Pursuing a Tory Brexit risks alienating voters from other parties. (Just as many voters perceived Remain as a Tory project because it was led by Cameron.)
Questions that voters are expecting a positive answer to include: Will Brexit save us money? Will it be easy to retire to Spain? Will my job be safe? Will hospitals and farms be adequately staffed? Will immigration be lower? etc. If the answers to any of these questions is no, that's a tranche of voters who'll be unhappy with the Tory Brexit.
I think a lot of people, if asked would you rather have no Brexit than a Brexit you disagree with, would opt to stay in.
A cross-party arrangement for unity on the detail would be great.
Can you see that happening, yet alone working?
Speaking as a British democrat, we voted for Brexit so we should go through with Brexit, and in order to succeed (which it isn't doing at the moment) the government should never have allowed it to become a Tory project. May still seems blind to the idea of a cross-party Brexit, and Labour are too split to want to press May on this. That's sad - Labour are basically hoping that Brexit is a mess because that'll help them get elected.
(To answer your question directly: of course it would work. The disagreements wouldn't be any worse than they're going to be anyway, and whatever Brexit was achieved would've been bought into by all sides, so there'd be no question of a second referendum or any such nonsense.)
Speaking as me, I don't care whether Britain is in the EU or not, but I do care that leaving the EU is disastrous in the short and medium term, and therefore it's not worth doing.0 -
If he is so great, why do you say he is so bad when you criticise May for not beating him? You back both sides of an arb at 108%TheScreamingEagles said:
Not me, ahem.HYUFD said:We all underestimated Corbyn
From last August
There’s a danger that we’re underestimating the Labour leader.
Outside of the Corbynites, the idée reçue amongst most of us is that Jeremy Corbyn leading Labour at a general election is going to lead Labour to experiencing an extinction level electoral defeat. On my most charitable days I’ll say Jeremy Corbyn has only two flaws, everything he says, and everything he does, but I’m going to challenge that perception and defend Jeremy Corbyn.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/08/30/in-praise-of-jeremy-corbyn/0 -
Telegraph reporting that 'only' 58 are missing, and that includes the 30 confirmed dead, so 28 missing.BudG said:0 -
But how often is the Parliament Act invoked - almost never.TheScreamingEagles said:
But causes all sorts of problems with the Parliament Act and the fact the Salisbury convention doesn't apply.RobD said:
I think that makes sense in terms of preventing bills being dropped at the end of the session.OchEye said:Must be true, it's in the Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/17/theresa-may-cancels-2018-queens-speech-dup-pact-hangs-balance/
And it wouldn't be this time with such a small Commons Majority - even with the DUP.
One very obvious thing about this but still worth stating - it implies they aren't expecting another GE in the next 12 months.0 -
Surely John Major is the only one with the necessary experience of negotiating with Europe with minority support in the Commons. He's no older than Vince Cable. Surely worth thinking about, when you consider the alternatives.0
-
Parliament will sit for two years instead of the usual one to give MPs enough time to fully consider the laws required to make Britain ready for Brexit. This includes the Great Repeal Bill, which by converting existing EU law into UK statute will enable the smoothest possible transition at the point of leaving.OchEye said:Must be true, it's in the Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/17/theresa-may-cancels-2018-queens-speech-dup-pact-hangs-balance/
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-confirm-two-year-parliament-to-deliver-brexit-and-beyond0 -
Not true.BudG said:0 -
Why don't you just fuck off?-sam said:
If he is so great, why do you say he is so bad when you criticise May for not beating him? You back both sides of an arb at 108%TheScreamingEagles said:
Not me, ahem.HYUFD said:We all underestimated Corbyn
From last August
There’s a danger that we’re underestimating the Labour leader.
Outside of the Corbynites, the idée reçue amongst most of us is that Jeremy Corbyn leading Labour at a general election is going to lead Labour to experiencing an extinction level electoral defeat. On my most charitable days I’ll say Jeremy Corbyn has only two flaws, everything he says, and everything he does, but I’m going to challenge that perception and defend Jeremy Corbyn.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/08/30/in-praise-of-jeremy-corbyn/
I'm sick and tired of your obsessive behaviour.0 -
A total of 58 people are dead or missing, presumed dead, following the devastating fire at Grenfell Tower in west London, police have said.BudG said:
Commander Stuart Cundy said that number "may increase". The BBC understands it could be about 70 people in total.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-403151940 -
Cough.........TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm sick and tired of your obsessive behaviour.-sam said:
If he is so great, why do you say he is so bad when you criticise May for not beating him? You back both sides of an arb at 108%TheScreamingEagles said:
Not me, ahem.HYUFD said:We all underestimated Corbyn
From last August
There’s a danger that we’re underestimating the Labour leader.
Outside of the Corbynites, the idée reçue amongst most of us is that Jeremy Corbyn leading Labour at a general election is going to lead Labour to experiencing an extinction level electoral defeat. On my most charitable days I’ll say Jeremy Corbyn has only two flaws, everything he says, and everything he does, but I’m going to challenge that perception and defend Jeremy Corbyn.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/08/30/in-praise-of-jeremy-corbyn/0 -
Not a good 30 minutes at Le Mans for Toyota.0
-
Have contacted the website and asked them to check their figures because they appear to bear little relation to official numbers given by authorities here.BudG said:0 -
Speaking as someone who's lived in Hungary, I wouldn't attempt to find a rational excuse for data on a Hungarian site.Quincel said:
I do expect that the death toll could reach well into three figures though.0 -
I will be surprised if the final death toll is less than 130 unfortunately0
-
What do you base that upon?bigjohnowls said:I will be surprised if the final death toll is less than 130 unfortunately
0 -
I know someone who went down there today and he said the locals were expecting the death toll to be closer to 150 than 100.
Let's hope they are wrong.0 -
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/17/green-energy-surge-fuels-anxiety-uk-power-grid
And, now the good news. "Stunning Sunday" !0 -
It will take time to sift through the debris, and there is bound to be speculation - but what we've seen from some seeking to politicise the immediate aftermath - stories of 'D notices' to suppress the true figure and so forth is disgraceful.bigjohnowls said:I know someone who went down there today and he said the locals were expecting the death toll to be closer to 150 than 100.
Let's hope they are wrong.0 -
What's a D Notice0
-
A notice to newspaper editors requesting they (voluntarily) do not publish information on the grounds of 'national security' - one example was when Prince Harry was deployed to Afghanistan - the story was not published until he was about to return home, though he'd been there for months. On Grenfell:bigjohnowls said:What's a D Notice
Original story:
If it is true that the government has issued a D-notice – and every instinct is screaming that it is – then the government has placed a national security gag on mainstream news editors to prevent them from disclosing what’s already known about the number of lives lost at Grenfell Tower.
This raises a huge question: WHY?.
Is there a national security aspect to this information that has not yet been hinted at?
Or is the Tory government inflating its own party interests into a national security issue in order to control the flow of information that will damage the Tory government and party, allowing it to ‘drip-feed’ a slow increase in the number of confirmed deaths in order to manage public outrage?
Now topped off with:
EDIT: the SKWAWKBOX is now satisfied that no D-notice was issued. No plain answer to this blog’s question of other restrictions on information about lives lost at Grenfell has yet been provided, but a ‘D-notice’ (or DSMA-notice as they are now termed) was not.
https://skwawkbox.org/2017/06/16/video-govt-puts-d-notice-gag-on-real-grenfell-death-toll-nationalsecurity/0 -
Let's hope it's a significantly lower number, no matter how unlikely it seems.bigjohnowls said:I will be surprised if the final death toll is less than 130 unfortunately
0 -
That website is just a peddler of fake news. The Breitbert of the left.CarlottaVance said:
A notice to newspaper editors requesting they (voluntarily) do not publish information on the grounds of 'national security' - one example was when Prince Harry was deployed to Afghanistan - the story was not published until he was about to return home, though he'd been there for months. On Grenfell:bigjohnowls said:What's a D Notice
Original story:
If it is true that the government has issued a D-notice – and every instinct is screaming that it is – then the government has placed a national security gag on mainstream news editors to prevent them from disclosing what’s already known about the number of lives lost at Grenfell Tower.
This raises a huge question: WHY?.
Is there a national security aspect to this information that has not yet been hinted at?
Or is the Tory government inflating its own party interests into a national security issue in order to control the flow of information that will damage the Tory government and party, allowing it to ‘drip-feed’ a slow increase in the number of confirmed deaths in order to manage public outrage?
Now topped off with:
EDIT: the SKWAWKBOX is now satisfied that no D-notice was issued. No plain answer to this blog’s question of other restrictions on information about lives lost at Grenfell has yet been provided, but a ‘D-notice’ (or DSMA-notice as they are now termed) was not.
https://skwawkbox.org/2017/06/16/video-govt-puts-d-notice-gag-on-real-grenfell-death-toll-nationalsecurity/0 -
Is he going to be arrested for saying that?HYUFD said:Corbynista calls for May to be beheaded
https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/8761344220384174080 -
0
-
I hope not. If its against the law to be an odious opinionated prick this website would be very quiet! On a more serious point, the prick was expressing a point of view - the people who recorded and uploaded it were doing the 'broadcasting' and possibly 'inciting'......AndyJS said:
Is he going to be arrested for saying that?HYUFD said:Corbynista calls for May to be beheaded
https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/8761344220384174080 -
0
-
Brilliant article by Peter Hitchens on why Corbyn did so well at the election:
"In fact, the long Tory assault on Mr Corbyn was his greatest asset. When the campaign began, and people had a chance to see what he was really like, especially his dogged politeness under fire, they did that rather moving thing that British people do when they see a lone individual besieged by foes. They sided with him against his tormentors.
It was no good raving about Mr Corbyn’s Sinn Fein connections, when the Tories have themselves compelled the Queen to have the grisly IRA gangster Martin McGuinness to dinner at Windsor."
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2017/06/peter-hitchens-theresas-tories-as-useful-as-a-zombie-on-a-broken-bike.html0 -
doesn't matter as bringing it up was more lefty malicious mischief making.bigjohnowls said:What's a D Notice
As if a D notice issued for that.0 -
lets hope not - but the death toll as we understand it is more than bad enoughbigjohnowls said:I will be surprised if the final death toll is less than 130 unfortunately
0
