It has honestly made me believe, that despite everything, we'll be okay as a country.
McDonnell with the pathetic us vs them mentality he is trying to stir up, will hate this.
Yes, if Corbyn and McDonnell got in I would expect the Tories to swing hard to the right in response, maybe even Priti Patel may have a chance of becoming leader. Let us hope tonight's Last Leg with Clegg, Hague and Blair was not the last hurrah of a more centrist political age
Take out the Don't Knows for a headline figure at that's a revolutions worth of support.
It depends how the question is asked.
In any case, it's irrelevant. People can be rehoused without confiscating property.
You'd think by now Corbyn's opponents would be giving him a bit more credit, even if they looked on it as just low animal cunning. What he said was that empty property should be requisitioned if necessary. Put that way, in order to disagree, you'd have to be saying that even if requisitioning were necessary in order to rehouse these poor victims, you would refuse to do it. That sounds pretty hard-hearted, doesn't it?
She will go well before the next election, of course Major took over from Thatcher 3/5 of the way through the 1987-1992 Parliament and still won in 1992 despite the downfall she suffered over the poll tax and the riots that ensued from that. Hammond in many respects is John Major 2, May seems to have jumped from Thatcher 1983 to Thatcher 1990 in the space of a few weeks
History may rhyme but it does not repeat. There is surely no need to look for precise parallels.
Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it
Yougov also had voters wanting to restore the death penalty too in their last poll on the subject, though I doubt Corbyn's populism will reach as far as that!
Maybe if it only applies to posh people and Tories?
If the British people were voting purely for policies not parties we would have renationalisations, higher taxes on the rich, lower taxes for middle income earners, more money for the NHS, police and education, less money for overseas aid and welfare, immigration slashed apart from a few key sectors, tougher sentences for offenders and restoration of the death penalty. A mix of both left and rightwing populism
Take out the Don't Knows for a headline figure at that's a revolutions worth of support.
It depends how the question is asked.
In any case, it's irrelevant. People can be rehoused without confiscating property.
You'd think by now Corbyn's opponents would be giving him a bit more credit, even if they looked on it as just low animal cunning. What he said was that empty property should be requisitioned if necessary. Put that way, in order to disagree, you'd have to be saying that even if requisitioning were necessary in order to rehouse these poor victims, you would refuse to do it. That sounds pretty hard-hearted, doesn't it?
It's not necessary.
Yes - I was replying to someone who said precisely that.
My point is that if you just say it's not necessary you're not actually disagreeing with Corbyn. To disagree with him, you'd have to consider the situation in which it was necessary, and say you wouldn't do it even then. What he said was phrased in such a way as to make anyone who disagreed seem like a heartless bastard.
Take out the Don't Knows for a headline figure at that's a revolutions worth of support.
It depends how the question is asked.
In any case, it's irrelevant. People can be rehoused without confiscating property.
You'd think by now Corbyn's opponents would be giving him a bit more credit, even if they looked on it as just low animal cunning. What he said was that empty property should be requisitioned if necessary. Put that way, in order to disagree, you'd have to be saying that even if requisitioning were necessary in order to rehouse these poor victims, you would refuse to do it. That sounds pretty hard-hearted, doesn't it?
Yeah, yeah - Herod said the first-born should be massacred if necessary , and look how that turned out.
I do believe that when Theresa May stands down Brexit as wanted by UKIP will be gone for good
Apparently she isn't standing down. The DUP will save her or something
She will in time for the next GE whenever that is. The next interesting question will be whether the SNP and the Lib Dems decide to vote for or against or abstain on the QS
Take out the Don't Knows for a headline figure at that's a revolutions worth of support.
It depends how the question is asked.
In any case, it's irrelevant. People can be rehoused without confiscating property.
You'd think by now Corbyn's opponents would be giving him a bit more credit, even if they looked on it as just low animal cunning. What he said was that empty property should be requisitioned if necessary. Put that way, in order to disagree, you'd have to be saying that even if requisitioning were necessary in order to rehouse these poor victims, you would refuse to do it. That sounds pretty hard-hearted, doesn't it?
Yeah, yeah - Herod said the first-born should be massacred if necessary ...
You know, I've really been wobbling on May, and have been as bitterly angry and disappointed with her election performance as anyone. But when I see Corbyn and his cult whipping the public into a mob frenzy of confiscatory Stalinism, I think ... let's keep her on for Brexit, and tell the commies to go fuck themselves.
Oh, and whatever price the DUP want, let's triple it - the deal being that they keep Corbyn out until he dies of old age.
Take out the Don't Knows for a headline figure at that's a revolutions worth of support.
It depends how the question is asked.
In any case, it's irrelevant. People can be rehoused without confiscating property.
You'd think by now Corbyn's opponents would be giving him a bit more credit, even if they looked on it as just low animal cunning. What he said was that empty property should be requisitioned if necessary. Put that way, in order to disagree, you'd have to be saying that even if requisitioning were necessary in order to rehouse these poor victims, you would refuse to do it. That sounds pretty hard-hearted, doesn't it?
Yeah, yeah - Herod said the first-born should be massacred if necessary ...
You know, I've really been wobbling on May, and have been as bitterly angry and disappointed with her election performance as anyone. But when I see Corbyn and his cult whipping the public into a mob frenzy of confiscatory Stalinism, I think ... let's keep her on for Brexit, and tell the commies to go fuck themselves.
Oh, and whatever price the DUP want, let's triple it - the deal being that they keep Corbyn out until he dies of old age.
I do believe that when Theresa May stands down Brexit as wanted by UKIP will be gone for good
Apparently she isn't standing down. The DUP will save her or something
She will in time for the next GE whenever that is. The next interesting question will be whether the SNP and the Lib Dems decide to vote for or against or abstain on the QS
Zero chance they would vote for it, surely?
I am only asking the question.
However the SNP and the Lib Dems do not want an election anytime soon
I do believe that when Theresa May stands down Brexit as wanted by UKIP will be gone for good
Apparently she isn't standing down. The DUP will save her or something
She will in time for the next GE whenever that is. The next interesting question will be whether the SNP and the Lib Dems decide to vote for or against or abstain on the QS
Zero chance they would vote for it, surely?
I am only asking the question.
However the SNP and the Lib Dems do not want an election anytime soon
It's hard to know if parties could actually oppose a motion depending on the context and public perception, but Labour are currently the only party who want a quick election.
You know, I've really been wobbling on May, and have been as bitterly angry and disappointed with her election performance as anyone. But when I see Corbyn and his cult whipping the public into a mob frenzy of confiscatory Stalinism, I think ... let's keep her on for Brexit, and tell the commies to go fuck themselves.
Oh, and whatever price the DUP want, let's triple it - the deal being that they keep Corbyn out until he dies of old age.
That's fighting talk...
Damned right it is. Let's show these shits what "evil Tories" are really all about.
I probably sound like a jobsworth twat, but it's really bugging me how reporters are questioning the "stay put" policy. It is clear that there was a breakdown in the evacuation procedure in Grenfell, but for me, stay put coupled with phased evacuation is the only way to deal with a highrise incident. By trying to discredit the policy, they're going to make minor incidents in highrise very difficult for FRS around the country.
You know, I've really been wobbling on May, and have been as bitterly angry and disappointed with her election performance as anyone. But when I see Corbyn and his cult whipping the public into a mob frenzy of confiscatory Stalinism, I think ... let's keep her on for Brexit, and tell the commies to go fuck themselves.
Oh, and whatever price the DUP want, let's triple it - the deal being that they keep Corbyn out until he dies of old age.
That's fighting talk...
Damned right it is. Let's show these shits what "evil Tories" are really all about.
You know, I've really been wobbling on May, and have been as bitterly angry and disappointed with her election performance as anyone. But when I see Corbyn and his cult whipping the public into a mob frenzy of confiscatory Stalinism, I think ... let's keep her on for Brexit, and tell the commies to go fuck themselves.
Oh, and whatever price the DUP want, let's triple it - the deal being that they keep Corbyn out until he dies of old age.
Blimey, turn your back for 5 minutes and the public have been "whipped up into a mob frenzy of confiscatory Stalinism". Should I be sitting up with a loaded shotgun tonight or is it safe to go to bed? What do you reckon.
I do believe that when Theresa May stands down Brexit as wanted by UKIP will be gone for good
Apparently she isn't standing down. The DUP will save her or something
She will in time for the next GE whenever that is. The next interesting question will be whether the SNP and the Lib Dems decide to vote for or against or abstain on the QS
Zero chance they would vote for it, surely?
I am only asking the question.
However the SNP and the Lib Dems do not want an election anytime soon
It's hard to know if parties could actually oppose a motion depending on the context and public perception, but Labour are currently the only party who want a quick election.
As long as the QS is considered uncontroversial it may not harm the opposition parties if they support it for the good of the Country. If I was guessing abstentions may be the order of the day
I do believe that when Theresa May stands down Brexit as wanted by UKIP will be gone for good
Apparently she isn't standing down. The DUP will save her or something
She will in time for the next GE whenever that is. The next interesting question will be whether the SNP and the Lib Dems decide to vote for or against or abstain on the QS
Zero chance they would vote for it, surely?
I am only asking the question.
However the SNP and the Lib Dems do not want an election anytime soon
It's hard to know if parties could actually oppose a motion depending on the context and public perception, but Labour are currently the only party who want a quick election.
I don't think defeating the QS would be enough to trigger an election under the FTPA - it has to be a vote of no confidence.
I probably sound like a jobsworth twat, but it's really bugging me how reporters are questioning the "stay put" policy. It is clear that there was a breakdown in the evacuation procedure in Grenfell, but for me, stay put coupled with phased evacuation is the only way to deal with a highrise incident. By trying to discredit the policy, they're going to make minor incidents in highrise very difficult for FRS around the country.
I think "stay put" applies when the fire is contained (and these buildings are/were designed to contain fires) but obviously it doesn't apply when the whole building is going up like match sticks... In that situation you've got to get out ASAP surely.
They need to urgently understand why the building went up like it did and in the buildings where that could happen again change the advice.
I probably sound like a jobsworth twat, but it's really bugging me how reporters are questioning the "stay put" policy. It is clear that there was a breakdown in the evacuation procedure in Grenfell, but for me, stay put coupled with phased evacuation is the only way to deal with a highrise incident. By trying to discredit the policy, they're going to make minor incidents in highrise very difficult for FRS around the country.
You know your subject and I would agree with the logic. The problem is the disinformation peddled by the media whipping up a storm, when more professional journalism would have served everyone properly
You know, I've really been wobbling on May, and have been as bitterly angry and disappointed with her election performance as anyone. But when I see Corbyn and his cult whipping the public into a mob frenzy of confiscatory Stalinism, I think ... let's keep her on for Brexit, and tell the commies to go fuck themselves.
Oh, and whatever price the DUP want, let's triple it - the deal being that they keep Corbyn out until he dies of old age.
That's fighting talk...
Damned right it is. Let's show these shits what "evil Tories" are really all about.
Your not related to Ave It are you?
I'm definitely channelling the spirit of Ave It tonight!
You know, I've really been wobbling on May, and have been as bitterly angry and disappointed with her election performance as anyone. But when I see Corbyn and his cult whipping the public into a mob frenzy of confiscatory Stalinism, I think ... let's keep her on for Brexit, and tell the commies to go fuck themselves.
Oh, and whatever price the DUP want, let's triple it - the deal being that they keep Corbyn out until he dies of old age.
That's fighting talk...
Damned right it is. Let's show these shits what "evil Tories" are really all about.
Your not related to Ave It are you?
I'm definitely channelling the spirit of Ave It tonight!
"Spirits" being the operative word.. Whisky, Vodka, GIN...
You know, I've really been wobbling on May, and have been as bitterly angry and disappointed with her election performance as anyone. But when I see Corbyn and his cult whipping the public into a mob frenzy of confiscatory Stalinism, I think ... let's keep her on for Brexit, and tell the commies to go fuck themselves.
Oh, and whatever price the DUP want, let's triple it - the deal being that they keep Corbyn out until he dies of old age.
The trouble with partisans is that they tend to forget that most people don't share their partisanship. Most people won't even hear that Corbyn said anything about requisitioning empty property, and of those that do, most of them won't think "Oh dear - confiscatory Stalinism." As that poll shows, most of them will think it's quite a good idea.
I suppose that explains some of the comments here about the electorate having gone mad. All it really means is that the commenter can't fathom why people are behaving as they are. And essentially that's probably just because they commenter can't imagine acting in that way him/herself.
I do believe that when Theresa May stands down Brexit as wanted by UKIP will be gone for good
Apparently she isn't standing down. The DUP will save her or something
She will in time for the next GE whenever that is. The next interesting question will be whether the SNP and the Lib Dems decide to vote for or against or abstain on the QS
Zero chance they would vote for it, surely?
I am only asking the question.
However the SNP and the Lib Dems do not want an election anytime soon
It's hard to know if parties could actually oppose a motion depending on the context and public perception, but Labour are currently the only party who want a quick election.
I don't think defeating the QS would be enough to trigger an election under the FTPA - it has to be a vote of no confidence.
The PM would resign, Corbyn could not be able to put together a Government, and so another GE
Getting rid of all the stupid stuff that cost her the election? Shame she didn't do it before the manifesto launch...
Announce a bunch of unpopular but possibly sensible policies so that you have a mandate for them. Lose but win the election due to unpopular policies. Drop unpopular policies post election leaving no mandate, no sensible policies and no majority.
Getting rid of all the stupid stuff that cost her the election? Shame she didn't do it before the manifesto launch...
Announce a bunch of unpopular but possibly sensible policies so that you have a mandate for them. Lose but win the election due to unpopular policies. Drop unpopular policies post election leaving no mandate, no sensible policies and no majority.
I probably sound like a jobsworth twat, but it's really bugging me how reporters are questioning the "stay put" policy. It is clear that there was a breakdown in the evacuation procedure in Grenfell, but for me, stay put coupled with phased evacuation is the only way to deal with a highrise incident. By trying to discredit the policy, they're going to make minor incidents in highrise very difficult for FRS around the country.
I think "stay put" applies when the fire is contained (and these buildings are/were designed to contain fires) but obviously it doesn't apply when the whole building is going up like match sticks... In that situation you've got to get out ASAP.
They need to urgently understand why the building went up like it did and in the buildings where that could happen again change the advice.
Stay put is nowt to do with containment, it's designed to stop stairwells and communal areas getting clogged up by residents streaming out when there is no need to. Residents on the fifth floor don't need to run out in their underpants if there is a fire on the twentieth floor. A well maintained, efficient fire detection system uses phased evacuation to create an orderly, safe evacuation. Obviously, Grenfell was a clusterfuck, but that shouldn't lead to mass panic in a tower block the next time someone burns toast on the 20th floor, which is absolutely what will happen on my next night shift.
I do believe that when Theresa May stands down Brexit as wanted by UKIP will be gone for good
Apparently she isn't standing down. The DUP will save her or something
She will in time for the next GE whenever that is. The next interesting question will be whether the SNP and the Lib Dems decide to vote for or against or abstain on the QS
Zero chance they would vote for it, surely?
I am only asking the question.
However the SNP and the Lib Dems do not want an election anytime soon
It's hard to know if parties could actually oppose a motion depending on the context and public perception, but Labour are currently the only party who want a quick election.
I don't think defeating the QS would be enough to trigger an election under the FTPA - it has to be a vote of no confidence.
The PM would resign, Corbyn could not be able to put together a Government, and so another GE
Or why not simply represent a revised QS addressing the concerns of the (presumably few) Tories who didn't vote for it?
Getting rid of all the stupid stuff that cost her the election? Shame she didn't do it before the manifesto launch...
Announce a bunch of unpopular but possibly sensible policies so that you have a mandate for them. Lose but win the election due to unpopular policies. Drop unpopular policies post election leaving no mandate, no sensible policies and no majority.
What a calamity.
It's Hammond who has the nightmare job of having to balance the books after all the difficult, but necessary policies don't go through.
Getting rid of all the stupid stuff that cost her the election? Shame she didn't do it before the manifesto launch...
Announce a bunch of unpopular but possibly sensible policies so that you have a mandate for them. Lose but win the election due to unpopular policies. Drop unpopular policies post election leaving no mandate, no sensible policies and no majority.
What a calamity.
It's Hammond who has the nightmare job of having to balance the books after all the difficult but necessary policies don't go through.
After 7 years the general election result effectively killed austerity, the alternative now is an easing off it with the Tories or a spending splurge with Corbyn Labour
I do believe that when Theresa May stands down Brexit as wanted by UKIP will be gone for good
Apparently she isn't standing down. The DUP will save her or something
She will in time for the next GE whenever that is. The next interesting question will be whether the SNP and the Lib Dems decide to vote for or against or abstain on the QS
Zero chance they would vote for it, surely?
I am only asking the question.
However the SNP and the Lib Dems do not want an election anytime soon
It's hard to know if parties could actually oppose a motion depending on the context and public perception, but Labour are currently the only party who want a quick election.
I don't think defeating the QS would be enough to trigger an election under the FTPA - it has to be a vote of no confidence.
The PM would resign, Corbyn could not be able to put together a Government, and so another GE
Or why not simply represent a revised QS addressing the concerns of the (presumably few) Tories who didn't vote for it?
You know, I've really been wobbling on May, and have been as bitterly angry and disappointed with her election performance as anyone. But when I see Corbyn and his cult whipping the public into a mob frenzy of confiscatory Stalinism, I think ... let's keep her on for Brexit, and tell the commies to go fuck themselves.
Oh, and whatever price the DUP want, let's triple it - the deal being that they keep Corbyn out until he dies of old age.
The trouble with partisans is that they tend to forget that most people don't share their partisanship. Most people won't even hear that Corbyn said anything about requisitioning empty property, and of those that do, most of them won't think "Oh dear - confiscatory Stalinism." As that poll shows, most of them will think it's quite a good idea.
I suppose that explains some of the comments here about the electorate having gone mad. All it really means is that the commenter can't fathom why people are behaving as they are. And essentially that's probably just because they commenter can't imagine acting in that way him/herself.
So when the far left (aided and abetted by most media outlets today) hijacks a tragedy to promote their own partisanship, I guess you'll be the first to call them out, right?
I probably sound like a jobsworth twat, but it's really bugging me how reporters are questioning the "stay put" policy. It is clear that there was a breakdown in the evacuation procedure in Grenfell, but for me, stay put coupled with phased evacuation is the only way to deal with a highrise incident. By trying to discredit the policy, they're going to make minor incidents in highrise very difficult for FRS around the country.
I think "stay put" applies when the fire is contained (and these buildings are/were designed to contain fires) but obviously it doesn't apply when the whole building is going up like match sticks... In that situation you've got to get out ASAP.
They need to urgently understand why the building went up like it did and in the buildings where that could happen again change the advice.
Stay put is nowt to do with containment, it's designed to stop stairwells and communal areas getting clogged up by residents streaming out when there is no need to. Residents on the fifth floor don't need to run out in their underpants if there is a fire on the twentieth floor. A well maintained, efficient fire detection system uses phased evacuation to create an orderly, safe evacuation. Obviously, Grenfell was a clusterfuck, but that shouldn't lead to mass panic in a tower block the next time someone burns toast on the 20th floor, which is absolutely what will happen on my next night shift.
Out of interest have you got any theories about why the building went up like it did?
Not sure, but it does feel like the Telegraph is trying to spin a 'riots on the street' story where (so far, and touch wood) nothing of the sort has happened.
You know, I've really been wobbling on May, and have been as bitterly angry and disappointed with her election performance as anyone. But when I see Corbyn and his cult whipping the public into a mob frenzy of confiscatory Stalinism, I think ... let's keep her on for Brexit, and tell the commies to go fuck themselves.
Oh, and whatever price the DUP want, let's triple it - the deal being that they keep Corbyn out until he dies of old age.
The trouble with partisans is that they tend to forget that most people don't share their partisanship. Most people won't even hear that Corbyn said anything about requisitioning empty property, and of those that do, most of them won't think "Oh dear - confiscatory Stalinism." As that poll shows, most of them will think it's quite a good idea.
I suppose that explains some of the comments here about the electorate having gone mad. All it really means is that the commenter can't fathom why people are behaving as they are. And essentially that's probably just because they commenter can't imagine acting in that way him/herself.
So when the far left (aided and abetted by most media outlets today) hijacks a tragedy to promote their own partisanship, I guess you'll be the first to call them out, right?
Right.
That'll be 'aided and abetted by most media outlets' apart from The Daily Mail, The Sun, The Express, The Times and The Dail Telegraph, presumably?
Take out the Don't Knows for a headline figure at that's a revolutions worth of support.
It depends how the question is asked.
In any case, it's irrelevant. People can be rehoused without confiscating property.
The Tory-led Kensington & Chelsea council have said they don't have enough places to rehouse everyone within the borough.
Is the Labour Mayor of London doing anything to help?
Dunno. But I'm just a bit confused that some on PB keep insisting there's supposedly loads of housing available to meet the needs of the Grenfell residents, when even the council themselves have said that's not true.
Corbyn's idea of using absentee landlords' places may or may not be a good or practical idea, but to say it's "irrelevant" or "unnecessary" on the basis of there already being plenty of houses for the people in need is being flatly contradicted.
I do believe that when Theresa May stands down Brexit as wanted by UKIP will be gone for good
Apparently she isn't standing down. The DUP will save her or something
She will in time for the next GE whenever that is. The next interesting question will be whether the SNP and the Lib Dems decide to vote for or against or abstain on the QS
Zero chance they would vote for it, surely?
I am only asking the question.
However the SNP and the Lib Dems do not want an election anytime soon
It's hard to know if parties could actually oppose a motion depending on the context and public perception, but Labour are currently the only party who want a quick election.
I don't think defeating the QS would be enough to trigger an election under the FTPA - it has to be a vote of no confidence.
The PM would resign, Corbyn could not be able to put together a Government, and so another GE
Or why not simply represent a revised QS addressing the concerns of the (presumably few) Tories who didn't vote for it?
Looks like that is what is going to happen
Indeed, but I bet SNP & LibDems join Labour in voting against, and it passes by handful of votes.
You know, I've really been wobbling on May, and have been as bitterly angry and disappointed with her election performance as anyone. But when I see Corbyn and his cult whipping the public into a mob frenzy of confiscatory Stalinism, I think ... let's keep her on for Brexit, and tell the commies to go fuck themselves.
Oh, and whatever price the DUP want, let's triple it - the deal being that they keep Corbyn out until he dies of old age.
The trouble with partisans is that they tend to forget that most people don't share their partisanship. Most people won't even hear that Corbyn said anything about requisitioning empty property, and of those that do, most of them won't think "Oh dear - confiscatory Stalinism." As that poll shows, most of them will think it's quite a good idea.
I suppose that explains some of the comments here about the electorate having gone mad. All it really means is that the commenter can't fathom why people are behaving as they are. And essentially that's probably just because they commenter can't imagine acting in that way him/herself.
So when the far left (aided and abetted by most media outlets today) hijacks a tragedy to promote their own partisanship, I guess you'll be the first to call them out, right?
For what it's worth, I think there's obviously a large element of this tragedy being exploited by people like the SWP, and that's very distasteful.
But the point I'm making is that political partisans can develop a blind spot if they forget how little of their partisanship the general public shares. Smart Tories wouldn't be shrugging their shoulders and saying "The world's gone mad." They'd be trying to understand why so many people now find Corbyn so appealing. Then maybe next time they wouldn't be taken by surprise as they were last week.
I do believe that when Theresa May stands down Brexit as wanted by UKIP will be gone for good
Apparently she isn't standing down. The DUP will save her or something
She will in time for the next GE whenever that is. The next interesting question will be whether the SNP and the Lib Dems decide to vote for or against or abstain on the QS
Zero chance they would vote for it, surely?
I am only asking the question.
However the SNP and the Lib Dems do not want an election anytime soon
It's hard to know if parties could actually oppose a motion depending on the context and public perception, but Labour are currently the only party who want a quick election.
I don't think defeating the QS would be enough to trigger an election under the FTPA - it has to be a vote of no confidence.
The PM would resign, Corbyn could not be able to put together a Government, and so another GE
Or why not simply represent a revised QS addressing the concerns of the (presumably few) Tories who didn't vote for it?
Looks like that is what is going to happen
Indeed, but I bet SNP & LibDems join Labour in voting against, and it passes by handful of votes.
SNP maybe but listening to Vince Cable I doubt the lib dems will vote against
Personally I think PB needs to go and have a nice lie down in a quiet room. I may be wrong, but I suggest that this weekend will see neither riots in the streets (not counting scuffles at the town hall) nor any elected politician calling for them nor May's resignation. We can expect demos and the odd anarchist trying to stir it, but the march, singing and prayers this evening seem a proportionate action by frustrated people.
But for those who do think she's going, note that SeanT's suggestions for a replacement, David and Hammond, are fingered by the article in the Standard as precisely the two who were keenest on the snap election - Hammond in particular because he expects the economy to deteriorate. Doesn't the same loic dictate that he won't be keen to grab the reins at this point?
No you are quite right. People who know nothing about fire fighting, construction, planning, building regulations and much more are filling the airwaves and papers with ill informed speculation that in some cases will encourage dangerous behaviour. I can't think of any previous disaster in the UK that has seen such irresponsible reporting from across the board.
I do believe that when Theresa May stands down Brexit as wanted by UKIP will be gone for good
Apparently she isn't standing down. The DUP will save her or something
She will in time for the next GE whenever that is. The next interesting question will be whether the SNP and the Lib Dems decide to vote for or against or abstain on the QS
Zero chance they would vote for it, surely?
I am only asking the question.
However the SNP and the Lib Dems do not want an election anytime soon
It's hard to know if parties could actually oppose a motion depending on the context and public perception, but Labour are currently the only party who want a quick election.
I don't think defeating the QS would be enough to trigger an election under the FTPA - it has to be a vote of no confidence.
Exactly, and for the non-Labour parties there is a different position on both. The LDs for example would vote against a Tory QS, but not for a Labour one either. Hence why the current seat tallies risk there being no viable government. Just because Corbyn can block a QS (if he can) doesn't mean he can govern.
Now only are her ratings at submerine levels but even The Mail is deserting the sinking ship. Only The Telegraph remains loyal finding reds under the bed to explain a protest where people don't like their compatriots and friends being burned to death in their own homes!
If she has any sence she will pack her bags this weekend - things are only going to get worse.
Re a Corbyn government, it could happen but it certainly isn't guaranteed. The last few weeks should surely tell anyone that politics is highly unpredictable right now and public opinion is very fickle.
We'll have to wait and see what the future brings.
But I actually think the government may well survive for several years yet. They'll get the QS pasted and only focus on Brexit for the rest of the term.
Personally I think PB needs to go and have a nice lie down in a quiet room. I may be wrong, but I suggest that this weekend will see neither riots in the streets (not counting scuffles at the town hall) nor any elected politician calling for them nor May's resignation. We can expect demos and the odd anarchist trying to stir it, but the march, singing and prayers this evening seem a proportionate action by frustrated people.
But for those who do think she's going, note that SeanT's suggestions for a replacement, David and Hammond, are fingered by the article in the Standard as precisely the two who were keenest on the snap election - Hammond in particular because he expects the economy to deteriorate. Doesn't the same loic dictate that he won't be keen to grab the reins at this point?
You do make sense Nick and I believe that Theresa May will carry on in the short term as there is no obvious successor
I do believe that when Theresa May stands down Brexit as wanted by UKIP will be gone for good
Apparently she isn't standing down. The DUP will save her or something
She will in time for the next GE whenever that is. The next interesting question will be whether the SNP and the Lib Dems decide to vote for or against or abstain on the QS
Zero chance they would vote for it, surely?
I am only asking the question.
However the SNP and the Lib Dems do not want an election anytime soon
It's hard to know if parties could actually oppose a motion depending on the context and public perception, but Labour are currently the only party who want a quick election.
I don't think defeating the QS would be enough to trigger an election under the FTPA - it has to be a vote of no confidence.
The PM would resign, Corbyn could not be able to put together a Government, and so another GE
Or why not simply represent a revised QS addressing the concerns of the (presumably few) Tories who didn't vote for it?
Looks like that is what is going to happen
Indeed, but I bet SNP & LibDems join Labour in voting against, and it passes by handful of votes.
SNP maybe but listening to Vince Cable I doubt the lib dems will vote against
You may be right but I think it will hurt them if they are seen to be propping May up in any way.
I probably sound like a jobsworth twat, but it's really bugging me how reporters are questioning the "stay put" policy. It is clear that there was a breakdown in the evacuation procedure in Grenfell, but for me, stay put coupled with phased evacuation is the only way to deal with a highrise incident. By trying to discredit the policy, they're going to make minor incidents in highrise very difficult for FRS around the country.
Agreed, I don't think that anyone in that situation will stay put now and we'll end up with some Ibrox-style stampede/crush disaster instead.
Personally I think PB needs to go and have a nice lie down in a quiet room. I may be wrong, but I suggest that this weekend will see neither riots in the streets (not counting scuffles at the town hall) nor any elected politician calling for them nor May's resignation. We can expect demos and the odd anarchist trying to stir it, but the march, singing and prayers this evening seem a proportionate action by frustrated people.
But for those who do think she's going, note that SeanT's suggestions for a replacement, David and Hammond, are fingered by the article in the Standard as precisely the two who were keenest on the snap election - Hammond in particular because he expects the economy to deteriorate. Doesn't the same loic dictate that he won't be keen to grab the reins at this point?
I hope so - but there is a mood in the air. I have seen a lot of non-political types both inside london and out urging people to stay safe this weekend, a lot of talk of riots on Facebook comments and so on.
It is a slim chance, I grant you that, but the country feels much closer to strife than it has in my lifetime.
Something is different this time - it's a gut reaction, an instinct, but you feel it all the same.
The events of the last few weeks have made me realise just how much of an 'us vs them' mentality there is out there at the moment. It is easy to see how things can escalate from here but hard to see how they are defused, or how quickly.
Now only are her ratings at submerine levels but even The Mail is deserting the sinking ship. Only The Telegraph remains loyal finding reds under the bed to explain a protest where people don't like their compatriots and friends being burned to death in their own homes!
If she has any sence she will pack her bags this weekend - things are only going to get worse.
She has got this far so she will not go now the DUP will vote for the QS. She will go at some time but the Autumn is the earliest IMO
I do believe that when Theresa May stands down Brexit as wanted by UKIP will be gone for good
Apparently she isn't standing down. The DUP will save her or something
She will in time for the next GE whenever that is. The next interesting question will be whether the SNP and the Lib Dems decide to vote for or against or abstain on the QS
Zero chance they would vote for it, surely?
I am only asking the question.
However the SNP and the Lib Dems do not want an election anytime soon
It's hard to know if parties could actually oppose a motion depending on the context and public perception, but Labour are currently the only party who want a quick election.
I don't think defeating the QS would be enough to trigger an election under the FTPA - it has to be a vote of no confidence.
The PM would resign, Corbyn could not be able to put together a Government, and so another GE
Or why not simply represent a revised QS addressing the concerns of the (presumably few) Tories who didn't vote for it?
Looks like that is what is going to happen
Indeed, but I bet SNP & LibDems join Labour in voting against, and it passes by handful of votes.
SNP maybe but listening to Vince Cable I doubt the lib dems will vote against
You may be right but I think it will hurt them if they are seen to be propping May up in any way.
Not necessarily - remember Vince Cable traduced labour's tax and spend policies last week in a live TV interview
You know, I've really been wobbling on May, and have been as bitterly angry and disappointed with her election performance as anyone. But when I see Corbyn and his cult whipping the public into a mob frenzy of confiscatory Stalinism, I think ... let's keep her on for Brexit, and tell the commies to go fuck themselves.
Oh, and whatever price the DUP want, let's triple it - the deal being that they keep Corbyn out until he dies of old age.
The trouble with partisans is that they tend to forget that most people don't share their partisanship. Most people won't even hear that Corbyn said anything about requisitioning empty property, and of those that do, most of them won't think "Oh dear - confiscatory Stalinism." As that poll shows, most of them will think it's quite a good idea.
I suppose that explains some of the comments here about the electorate having gone mad. All it really means is that the commenter can't fathom why people are behaving as they are. And essentially that's probably just because they commenter can't imagine acting in that way him/herself.
So when the far left (aided and abetted by most media outlets today) hijacks a tragedy to promote their own partisanship, I guess you'll be the first to call them out, right?
For what it's worth, I think there's obviously a large element of this tragedy being exploited by people like the SWP, and that's very distasteful.
But the point I'm making is that political partisans can develop a blind spot if they forget how little of their partisanship the general public shares. Smart Tories wouldn't be shrugging their shoulders and saying "The world's gone mad." They'd be trying to understand why so many people now find Corbyn so appealing. Then maybe next time they wouldn't be taken by surprise as they were last week.
I wasn't particularly taken by surprise. The godawful manifesto spooked and depressed me so much I finally delurked on here when it came out - hence the name "blueblue". There are some massive structural issues underpinning the Corbynite vote, not least housing and education costs, which were always going to explode one day.
But what we've been seeing for the last couple of days is mass hysteria that could gift the country to an extremist - and that's bloody terrifying.
No you are quite right. People who know nothing about fire fighting, construction, planning, building regulations and much more are filling the airwaves and papers with ill informed speculation that in some cases will encourage dangerous behaviour. I can't think of any previous disaster in the UK that has seen such irresponsible reporting from across the board.
It's as if any last pretence of old-fashioned impartial and objective news journalism has finally collapsed with this incident, and the MSM has decided to go all-in with the rumour, guff, emoting and fake news of social media. They're all at it, equally, so the only sensible response is what my father and no doubt many others have started doing - not watching the news anymore, and going to bed instead.
Personally I think PB needs to go and have a nice lie down in a quiet room. I may be wrong, but I suggest that this weekend will see neither riots in the streets (not counting scuffles at the town hall) nor any elected politician calling for them nor May's resignation. We can expect demos and the odd anarchist trying to stir it, but the march, singing and prayers this evening seem a proportionate action by frustrated people.
Don't know Nick. It's going to be a very hot weekend and tensions are rising... Hopefully we won't have any riots but I think it would be a brave (or complacent) man to say things won't blow this weekend.
Re a Corbyn government, it could happen but it certainly isn't guaranteed. The last few weeks should surely tell anyone that politics is highly unpredictable right now and public opinion is very fickle.
We'll have to wait and see what the future brings.
But I actually think the government may well survive for several years yet. They'll get the QS pasted and only focus on Brexit for the rest of the term.
Corbynisn is coming Apocalypse,I'm looking forward to my new house ;-)
Corbynisn is coming Apocalypse,I'm looking forward to my new house ;-)
The new house may be nice, but your enjoyment might be somewhat diluted by having to share it with dozens of others, as in Havana after the revolution.
Personally I think PB needs to go and have a nice lie down in a quiet room. I may be wrong, but I suggest that this weekend will see neither riots in the streets (not counting scuffles at the town hall) nor any elected politician calling for them nor May's resignation. We can expect demos and the odd anarchist trying to stir it, but the march, singing and prayers this evening seem a proportionate action by frustrated people.
But for those who do think she's going, note that SeanT's suggestions for a replacement, David and Hammond, are fingered by the article in the Standard as precisely the two who were keenest on the snap election - Hammond in particular because he expects the economy to deteriorate. Doesn't the same loic dictate that he won't be keen to grab the reins at this point?
I expect the MPs will put Davis and Hammond forward as the final 2 to the membership, if and when May goes, Boris has too many enemies and no one else will get near the support needed. Hammond actually wanted an early election because he did not want one after Brexit which suggests he will be more open to compromise in the Brexit talks if he becomes PM
Personally I think PB needs to go and have a nice lie down in a quiet room. I may be wrong, but I suggest that this weekend will see neither riots in the streets (not counting scuffles at the town hall) nor any elected politician calling for them nor May's resignation. We can expect demos and the odd anarchist trying to stir it, but the march, singing and prayers this evening seem a proportionate action by frustrated people.
But for those who do think she's going, note that SeanT's suggestions for a replacement, David and Hammond, are fingered by the article in the Standard as precisely the two who were keenest on the snap election - Hammond in particular because he expects the economy to deteriorate. Doesn't the same loic dictate that he won't be keen to grab the reins at this point?
I'd like to thank Nick for trying to calm us all down on PB. We need some of that Scandinavian coolness right now IMO.
I do believe that when Theresa May stands down Brexit as wanted by UKIP will be gone for good
Apparently she isn't standing down. The DUP will save her or something
She will in time for the next GE whenever that is. The next interesting question will be whether the SNP and the Lib Dems decide to vote for or against or abstain on the QS
Zero chance they would vote for it, surely?
I am only asking the question.
However the SNP and the Lib Dems do not want an election anytime soon
It's hard to know if parties could actually oppose a motion depending on the context and public perception, but Labour are currently the only party who want a quick election.
I don't think defeating the QS would be enough to trigger an election under the FTPA - it has to be a vote of no confidence.
The PM would resign, Corbyn could not be able to put together a Government, and so another GE
Or why not simply represent a revised QS addressing the concerns of the (presumably few) Tories who didn't vote for it?
Looks like that is what is going to happen
Indeed, but I bet SNP & LibDems join Labour in voting against, and it passes by handful of votes.
SNP maybe but listening to Vince Cable I doubt the lib dems will vote against
You may be right but I think it will hurt them if they are seen to be propping May up in any way.
Not necessarily - remember Vince Cable traduced labour's tax and spend policies last week in a live TV interview
Dr Vince was a Lab > SDP switcher the last time the Labour Party went mad...
Personally I think PB needs to go and have a nice lie down in a quiet room. I may be wrong, but I suggest that this weekend will see neither riots in the streets (not counting scuffles at the town hall) nor any elected politician calling for them nor May's resignation. We can expect demos and the odd anarchist trying to stir it, but the march, singing and prayers this evening seem a proportionate action by frustrated people.
But for those who do think she's going, note that SeanT's suggestions for a replacement, David and Hammond, are fingered by the article in the Standard as precisely the two who were keenest on the snap election - Hammond in particular because he expects the economy to deteriorate. Doesn't the same loic dictate that he won't be keen to grab the reins at this point?
I hope so - but there is a mood in the air. I have seen a lot of non-political types both inside london and out urging people to stay safe this weekend, a lot of talk of riots on Facebook comments and so on.
It is a slim chance, I grant you that, but the country feels much closer to strife than it has in my lifetime.
Something is different this time - it's a gut reaction, an instinct, but you feel it all the same.
The events of the last few weeks have made me realise just how much of an 'us vs them' mentality there is out there at the moment. It is easy to see how things can escalate from here but hard to see how they are defused, or how quickly.
It was a shock but I'm coming to terms with the incoming Corbyn government. I'm not particularly rich or poor so no need to worry
Quite the opposite, if you're neither particularly rich or poor then you are exactly in the position where you need to worry most.
That's what I thought but I didn't want to say it...
It's the point which the Conservative campaign should have been making 100% certain was understood by everyone. Instead they just stood aside.
What point do you mean Richard?
That the cost of McDonnell's humongous spending spree would fall on the neither rich nor poor, for the obvious reasons that the poor have no money and the rich can get their money out, or simply won't be rich when the economy contracts.
Comments
It always does.
Left wing agitprop never does.
My point is that if you just say it's not necessary you're not actually disagreeing with Corbyn. To disagree with him, you'd have to consider the situation in which it was necessary, and say you wouldn't do it even then. What he said was phrased in such a way as to make anyone who disagreed seem like a heartless bastard.
Oh, and whatever price the DUP want, let's triple it - the deal being that they keep Corbyn out until he dies of old age.
Unless we're in plural of Attorney-General territory.
However the SNP and the Lib Dems do not want an election anytime soon
They need to urgently understand why the building went up like it did and in the buildings where that could happen again change the advice.
I suppose that explains some of the comments here about the electorate having gone mad. All it really means is that the commenter can't fathom why people are behaving as they are. And essentially that's probably just because they commenter can't imagine acting in that way him/herself.
Lose but win the election due to unpopular policies.
Drop unpopular policies post election leaving no mandate, no sensible policies and no majority.
What a calamity.
Right.
Corbyn's idea of using absentee landlords' places may or may not be a good or practical idea, but to say it's "irrelevant" or "unnecessary" on the basis of there already being plenty of houses for the people in need is being flatly contradicted.
But the point I'm making is that political partisans can develop a blind spot if they forget how little of their partisanship the general public shares. Smart Tories wouldn't be shrugging their shoulders and saying "The world's gone mad." They'd be trying to understand why so many people now find Corbyn so appealing. Then maybe next time they wouldn't be taken by surprise as they were last week.
But for those who do think she's going, note that SeanT's suggestions for a replacement, David and Hammond, are fingered by the article in the Standard as precisely the two who were keenest on the snap election - Hammond in particular because he expects the economy to deteriorate. Doesn't the same loic dictate that he won't be keen to grab the reins at this point?
Now only are her ratings at submerine levels but even The Mail is deserting the sinking ship. Only The Telegraph remains loyal finding reds under the bed to explain a protest where people don't like their compatriots and friends being burned to death in their own homes!
If she has any sence she will pack her bags this weekend - things are only going to get worse.
We'll have to wait and see what the future brings.
But I actually think the government may well survive for several years yet. They'll get the QS pasted and only focus on Brexit for the rest of the term.
It is a slim chance, I grant you that, but the country feels much closer to strife than it has in my lifetime.
Something is different this time - it's a gut reaction, an instinct, but you feel it all the same.
The events of the last few weeks have made me realise just how much of an 'us vs them' mentality there is out there at the moment. It is easy to see how things can escalate from here but hard to see how they are defused, or how quickly.
Remarkable
But what we've been seeing for the last couple of days is mass hysteria that could gift the country to an extremist - and that's bloody terrifying.
If the question had asked about stealing people's private property without compensation then I doubt it would have attracted as much support.
Still significant support I'm sure - but nowhere near as much.
p.s. How many of the 59% are the same people who were petrified the Tories wouldn't let them inherit granny's house?