Do you think smearing the demonstrators as a communist terrorist mob is part of the non-empathy story explaining why you guys are losing to, of all people, Jeremy Corbyn?
Smearing? Chortle.
Remind me of the votes/seats split of last week's election?
A lot of it is a genuine protest at the lack of affordable housing for the working classes, but there is a nasty element in there as proven by the signs. They are being kept on the margins so far as nothing has kicked off.
Do you think smearing the demonstrators as a communist terrorist mob is part of the non-empathy story explaining why you guys are losing to, of all people, Jeremy Corbyn?
Yes, I am still trying to get over how PM Jeremy Corbyn won his landslide victory last Thursday, Tories obviously did not reach out enough to the SWP!
But why put something on the flats that could be hazardous? It smacks of politicians wanting to do something to make themselves feel better about those poor people who have to live in those ghastly flats.
Crikey! So does that mean it was a mix of private and social tenants?
It's interesting, because when you see tower blocks you assume they're not particularly special on the inside.
It is worth actually looking at who made the decisions to have these renovations.
The building was controlled by the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation.
Who are they?
Well according to their website they are the 4,500 people who actually live in these council properties. Their board is made up of eight elected tenant and leaseholder members, four appointed Councillor members and three independent appointed other members. They are a non profit organisation and the board do not get paid for their work. Nor are they allowed to have any financial interest in any company that does work for them.
This is not some company setting out to profit from the council tenants. This IS the council tenants, or at least their representatives.
These are the people who decided to take over the running of their own homes so they could apply for grants to bring the properties up to the Decent Homes Standard.
Someone has made a big mistake here. No one denies that. But to try and claim this is anything to do with inequality or a lack of care is simply wrong and is very, very dumb.
So why do the BBC and Sky not report that. It is their duty to be balanced and not conduct a witch hunt as has been evidenced over the last few days
I have no idea. All the information is freely available on the KCTMO website. I guess the media find facts get in the way of a good story.
If the KCTMO is so wonderfully representative of their tenants, then why did the Grenfall Action Group even exist?
Local politics? Who knows. Bottom line is that the people who made the decisions were tenants themselves who were not getting paid for what they did and were trying to make life better for the people living in those flats.
But why put something on the flats that could be hazardous? It smacks of politicians wanting to do something to make themselves feel better about those poor people who have to live in those ghastly flats.
Crikey! So does that mean it was a mix of private and social tenants?
It's interesting, because when you see tower blocks you assume they're not particularly special on the inside.
It is worth actually looking at who made the decisions to have these renovations.
The building was controlled by the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation.
Who are they?
Well according to their website they are the 4,500 people who actually live in these council properties. Their board is made up of eight elected tenant and leaseholder members, four appointed Councillor members and three independent appointed other members. They are a non profit organisation and the board do not get paid for their work. Nor are they allowed to have any financial interest in any company that does work for them.
This is not some company setting out to profit from the council tenants. This IS the council tenants, or at least their representatives.
These are the people who decided to take over the running of their own homes so they could apply for grants to bring the properties up to the Decent Homes Standard.
Someone has made a big mistake here. No one denies that. But to try and claim this is anything to do with inequality or a lack of care is simply wrong and is very, very dumb.
So why do the BBC and Sky not report that. It is their duty to be balanced and not conduct a witch hunt as has been evidenced over the last few days
I have no idea. All the information is freely available on the KCTMO website. I guess the media find facts get in the way of a good story.
To some extent I understand it as BBC, Channel 4 and Sky news coverage is left biased and except for Andrew Neil, pro Labour.
What I don't understand is how they haven't picked up on the media control elements in Corbyn's manifesto where he want totalitarian style control to be introduced.
If he ever gets in power, we are all in serious deep shit.
Lol agree there is a stench all about this. Labour's conduct over this has been absolutely diabolical they are scum! Good job theresa is acting in a statesman like way labour are c*nts
Lol agree there is a stench all about this. Labour's conduct over this has been absolutely diabolical they are scum! Good job theresa is acting in a statesman like way labour are c*nts
Lol agree there is a stench all about this. Labour's conduct over this has been absolutely diabolical they are scum! Good job theresa is acting in a statesman like way labour are c*nts
That just demonstrates why society is so divided you belong on order order not here
Lol agree there is a stench all about this. Labour's conduct over this has been absolutely diabolical they are scum! Good job theresa is acting in a statesman like way labour are c*nts
That just demonstrates why society is so divided you belong on order order not here
Ave_it has been around long before you appeared - and will be here long after you've flounced off, I suspect.
Lol agree there is a stench all about this. Labour's conduct over this has been absolutely diabolical they are scum! Good job theresa is acting in a statesman like way labour are c*nts
That just demonstrates why society is so divided you belong on order order not here
Ave_it has been around long before you appeared - and will be here long after you've flounced off, I suspect.
Sorry was here from 2008 if not before, had to change email address so unless i die first i might just outlive him, its not only the language but the complete ignorance in that specific post that adds nothing to a civalised debare
It was a shock but I'm coming to terms with the incoming Corbyn government. I'm not particularly rich or poor so no need to worry
A Corbyn government would be the most leftwing in our history, we would all have reason to worry. Though I think a Sanders presidency may come first
Sanders is just a regular social democrat in European terms though
Sanders is certainly left of Macron, if he became President he would be the most leftwing President the US has ever had, just as Corbyn would be the most leftwing PM we have ever had
It was a shock but I'm coming to terms with the incoming Corbyn government. I'm not particularly rich or poor so no need to worry
A Corbyn government would be the most leftwing in our history, we would all have reason to worry. Though I think a Sanders presidency may come first
Sanders is just a regular social democrat in European terms though
Sanders is certainly left of Macron, if he became President he would be the most leftwing President the US has ever had, just as Corbyn would be the most leftwing PM we have ever had
It was a shock but I'm coming to terms with the incoming Corbyn government. I'm not particularly rich or poor so no need to worry
A Corbyn government would be the most leftwing in our history, we would all have reason to worry. Though I think a Sanders presidency may come first
Sanders is just a regular social democrat in European terms though
Sanders would be too right wing for the Labour Party. Obama and Clinton would fit the Tories.
No, Sanders is well to the left of the likes of Kendall and Cooper, let alone Blair (indeed Bernie Sanders' own brother is a Green councillor in Oxford and Sanders endorsed Corbyn in the election). Obama would never be a Tory, LD at best, Clinton is New Labour, at most she would be a Cameroon, she was certainly anti Brexit
It was a shock but I'm coming to terms with the incoming Corbyn government. I'm not particularly rich or poor so no need to worry
A Corbyn government would be the most leftwing in our history, we would all have reason to worry. Though I think a Sanders presidency may come first
Sanders is just a regular social democrat in European terms though
Sanders would be too right wing for the Labour Party. Obama and Clinton would fit the Tories.
No, Sanders is well to the left of the likes of Kendall and Cooper, let alone Blair (indeed Bernie Sanders' own brother is a Green councillor in Oxford and Sanders endorsed Corbyn in the election). Obama would never be a Tory, LD at best, Clinton is New Labour, at most she would be a Cameroon, she was certainly anti Brexit
What's difficult to decide is whether Trump would be UKIP or Official Monster Raving Loony.
It was a shock but I'm coming to terms with the incoming Corbyn government. I'm not particularly rich or poor so no need to worry
A Corbyn government would be the most leftwing in our history, we would all have reason to worry. Though I think a Sanders presidency may come first
Sanders is just a regular social democrat in European terms though
Sanders is certainly left of Macron, if he became President he would be the most leftwing President the US has ever had, just as Corbyn would be the most leftwing PM we have ever had
On many issues Clinton is to the right of May.
Clinton is left of May on immigration certainly and Brexit and civil liberties
If the KCTMO is so wonderfully representative of their tenants, then why did the Grenfall Action Group even exist?
Local politics? Who knows. Bottom line is that the people who made the decisions were tenants themselves who were not getting paid for what they did and were trying to make life better for the people living in those flats.
So where is your class war now?
Search me! It was an honest question though: clearly the management ctte were not *that* representative of their tenants needs, whatever the website might say.
NB I did look up that Ken Clarke quote, but unfortunately Christopher Storey just drops it in without giving a reference, so it’s completely unsourced. (Man, reading back issues of International Currency Review was a trip back to the 90s. John Major on one cover, Helmut Kohl the next...)
Its been mentioned on here before that there is a rather unpleasant underbelly to the Corbyn/McDonnell leadership.
I don't think the public will be fooled long term, clearly not enough of them were on election day as it is. If there is a parallel but connected Labour leadership led or condoned campaign between the street protest operation and the parliamentary electoral process, people will catch on.
I did say that the pre-vote story about Corbyn's file with the Intelligence services wasn't a Conservative inspired leak, which should tell you all you need to know.
It was a shock but I'm coming to terms with the incoming Corbyn government. I'm not particularly rich or poor so no need to worry
A Corbyn government would be the most leftwing in our history, we would all have reason to worry. Though I think a Sanders presidency may come first
Sanders is just a regular social democrat in European terms though
Sanders would be too right wing for the Labour Party. Obama and Clinton would fit the Tories.
No, Sanders is well to the left of the likes of Kendall and Cooper, let alone Blair (indeed Bernie Sanders' own brother is a Green councillor in Oxford and Sanders endorsed Corbyn in the election). Obama would never be a Tory, LD at best, Clinton is New Labour, at most she would be a Cameroon, she was certainly anti Brexit
What's difficult to decide is whether Trump would be UKIP or Official Monster Raving Loony.
Trump would be UKIP, if the next US election is Sanders v Trump it would basically be the equivalent of Corbyn v Farage. You can imagine McCain or Romney or Bush Snr in the Tories but not Trump
Two thoughts: riots would enable Theresa May, while she remained PM, to trigger the Civil Contigencies Acts, and run the country as she wished.
And, given the possibility of Corbyn becoming PM and himself triggering that Act, would the Armed Forces and Police make it clear that he would be rapidly stopped if he tried it.
Two thoughts: riots would enable Theresa May, while she remained PM, to trigger the Civil Contigencies Acts, and run the country as she wished.
And, given the possibility of Corbyn becoming PM and himself triggering that Act, would the Armed Forces and Police make it clear that he would be rapidly stopped if he tried it.
It was a shock but I'm coming to terms with the incoming Corbyn government. I'm not particularly rich or poor so no need to worry
A Corbyn government would be the most leftwing in our history, we would all have reason to worry. Though I think a Sanders presidency may come first
Sanders is just a regular social democrat in European terms though
Sanders is certainly left of Macron, if he became President he would be the most leftwing President the US has ever had, just as Corbyn would be the most leftwing PM we have ever had
On many issues Clinton is to the right of May.
Clinton is left of May on immigration certainly and Brexit and civil liberties
It is easy for a US politician to take a position on Brexit as it is not about their own country and economy. Much harder to say how they would react if they were an equivalent UK politician.
Given the penal policies imposed during the Clinton presidency, they were not always terribly liberal - so I wouldn't be certain of her civil liberties credentials. There is a lot in the family record that doesn't mark them down as always being liberal on such matters.
An interesting weekend of choices ahead for Tory MPs:
1. Leave May in place. Arlene Foster and various Tories find they have better places to be than back May. Labour force a confidence motion on Wednesday, the government falls 2. Remove May. No time for a leadership election, so a quick coronation of yet another unelected PM. Enough factional fall-out from her fall to make people abstain, no deal for Arlene to back, the government falls
OR
3. Remove May. A coronation. Everyone pulls together to get the QS through. Government finds itself without a programme of government it can get through parliament or a version of Brexit that anyone supports. Government survives for now, but Brexit negotiations are swift and brutal - no deal 4. Leave May in place. Scrapes through the QS, and she goes off to Brussels to again be given a brutally swift reality check from the EU. And we are left with a Zombie PM only there because her running from residents in Kensington is the least worst option facing Tory MPs
Its going to be a fascinating weekend. There are going to be significant acres of coverage of Tory MPs saying this can't go on. If the Tories aren't unanimously backing May, the DUP won't rescue her. I think the QS is going ahead because the deal is dead.
1. No Tory will vote against the QS.
2. The DUP (&Sylvia Hermon) will never vote to put in Corbyn
UK crazy time. Long time mate of mine who sold his agency for mega millions has been filling my personal Facebook feed with Corbynite bile. De friend time for him. Must be worth £5mat least, yet labour muppet.
Two thoughts: riots would enable Theresa May, while she remained PM, to trigger the Civil Contigencies Acts, and run the country as she wished.
And, given the possibility of Corbyn becoming PM and himself triggering that Act, would the Armed Forces and Police make it clear that he would be rapidly stopped if he tried it.
I might have to watch A Very British Coup again...
UK crazy time. Long time mate of mine who sold his agency for mega millions has been filling my personal Facebook feed with Corbynite bile. De friend time for him. Must be worth £5mat least, yet labour muppet.
I am sure his money is safely tucked away where Corbyn can't get at it.
DUP confirm they'll vote for the QS. So they're either stacking themselves to the zombie in exchange for enough cash to sink the peace process, or they've been given assurances she's gone.
UK crazy time. Long time mate of mine who sold his agency for mega millions has been filling my personal Facebook feed with Corbynite bile. De friend time for him. Must be worth £5mat least, yet labour muppet.
I am sure his money is safely tucked away where Corbyn can't get at it.
I know. He's pretty smart so no Gary Lineker Ingenious schemes for him
DUP confirm they'll vote for the QS. So they're either stacking themselves to the zombie in exchange for enough cash to sink the peace process, or they've been given assurances she's gone.
A non-choice. Everyone knew they would never vote down May's QS - it's all a bit personal for Foster, given Corbyn's chums tried to blow her up when she was a child.
It was a shock but I'm coming to terms with the incoming Corbyn government. I'm not particularly rich or poor so no need to worry
A Corbyn government would be the most leftwing in our history, we would all have reason to worry. Though I think a Sanders presidency may come first
Sanders is just a regular social democrat in European terms though
Sanders is certainly left of Macron, if he became President he would be the most leftwing President the US has ever had, just as Corbyn would be the most leftwing PM we have ever had
On many issues Clinton is to the right of May.
Clinton is left of May on immigration certainly and Brexit and civil liberties
It is easy for a US politician to take a position on Brexit as it is not about their own country and economy. Much harder to say how they would react if they were an equivalent UK politician.
Given the penal policies imposed during the Clinton presidency, they were not always terribly liberal - so I wouldn't be certain of her civil liberties credentials. There is a lot in the family record that doesn't mark them down as always being liberal on such matters.
Even left wing Americans advocate penal policies that I, a very right winger, think are appalling.
It was a shock but I'm coming to terms with the incoming Corbyn government. I'm not particularly rich or poor so no need to worry
A Corbyn government would be the most leftwing in our history, we would all have reason to worry. Though I think a Sanders presidency may come first
Sanders is just a regular social democrat in European terms though
Sanders is certainly left of Macron, if he became President he would be the most leftwing President the US has ever had, just as Corbyn would be the most leftwing PM we have ever had
On many issues Clinton is to the right of May.
Clinton is left of May on immigration certainly and Brexit and civil liberties
It is easy for a US politician to take a position on Brexit as it is not about their own country and economy. Much harder to say how they would react if they were an equivalent UK politician.
Given the penal policies imposed during the Clinton presidency, they were not always terribly liberal - so I wouldn't be certain of her civil liberties credentials. There is a lot in the family record that doesn't mark them down as always being liberal on such matters.
Hillary even defended a child rapist, she has always believed in civil liberties for everyone
She will go well before the next election, of course Major took over from Thatcher 3/5 of the way through the 1987-1992 Parliament and still won in 1992 despite the downfall she suffered over the poll tax and the riots that ensued from that. Hammond in many respects is John Major 2, May seems to have jumped from Thatcher 1983 to Thatcher 1990 in the space of a few weeks
DUP confirm they'll vote for the QS. So they're either stacking themselves to the zombie in exchange for enough cash to sink the peace process, or they've been given assurances she's gone.
Either way, you've got to love politics...
13,959,529 people voted for either the Conservatives or the DUP 8 days ago (according to Wikipedia).
DUP confirm they'll vote for the QS. So they're either stacking themselves to the zombie in exchange for enough cash to sink the peace process, or they've been given assurances she's gone.
A non-choice. Everyone knew they would never vote down May's QS - it's all a bit personal for Foster, given Corbyn's chums tried to blow her up when she was a child.
One of the most charming comments I read on Facebook was the suggestion that killing Arlene Foster as a child would have been like killing a young Hitler.
UK crazy time. Long time mate of mine who sold his agency for mega millions has been filling my personal Facebook feed with Corbynite bile. De friend time for him. Must be worth £5mat least, yet labour muppet.
The head of maomentum is seriously loaded. I am sure unlike the plebs he has secured his money.
Take out the Don't Knows for a headline figure at that's a revolutions worth of support.
Yougov also had voters wanting to restore the death penalty too in their last poll on the subject, though I doubt Corbyn's populism will reach as far as that!
Yougov also had voters wanting to restore the death penalty too in their last poll on the subject, though I doubt Corbyn's populism will reach as far as that!
She will go well before the next election, of course Major took over from Thatcher 3/5 of the way through the 1987-1992 Parliament and still won in 1992 despite the downfall she suffered over the poll tax and the riots that ensued from that. Hammond in many respects is John Major 2, May seems to have jumped from Thatcher 1983 to Thatcher 1990 in the space of a few weeks
History may rhyme but it does not repeat. There is surely no need to look for precise parallels.
I remember Noel Gallagher at the height of britpop saying he could record himself taking a shit and it would still sell bucket loads....It appears the country has gone just as crazy over corbyn, but unlike oasis he has the opportunity to totally ruin the country rather than assault my eardrums with beattles knock offs.
Also aspects of left wing populism - nationalisation, tax the rich - have been popular for sometime. Some PBers act as if only right wing polices have been popular.
I do believe that when Theresa May stands down Brexit as wanted by UKIP will be gone for good
Apparently she isn't standing down. The DUP will save her or something
She will in time for the next GE whenever that is. The next interesting question will be whether the SNP and the Lib Dems decide to vote for or against or abstain on the QS
Take out the Don't Knows for a headline figure at that's a revolutions worth of support.
It depends how the question is asked.
In any case, it's irrelevant. People can be rehoused without confiscating property.
You'd think by now Corbyn's opponents would be giving him a bit more credit, even if they looked on it as just low animal cunning. What he said was that empty property should be requisitioned if necessary. Put that way, in order to disagree, you'd have to be saying that even if requisitioning were necessary in order to rehouse these poor victims, you would refuse to do it. That sounds pretty hard-hearted, doesn't it?
Comments
So where is your class war now?
What I don't understand is how they haven't picked up on the media control elements in Corbyn's manifesto where he want totalitarian style control to be introduced.
If he ever gets in power, we are all in serious deep shit.
I thought you'd left until 2022?
https://twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/875767442752106500
Channel 4 have been pretty blatant recently though.
NB I did look up that Ken Clarke quote, but unfortunately Christopher Storey just drops it in without giving a reference, so it’s completely unsourced. (Man, reading back issues of International Currency Review was a trip back to the 90s. John Major on one cover, Helmut Kohl the next...)
I don't think the public will be fooled long term, clearly not enough of them were on election day as it is. If there is a parallel but connected Labour leadership led or condoned campaign between the street protest operation and the parliamentary electoral process, people will catch on.
I did say that the pre-vote story about Corbyn's file with the Intelligence services wasn't a Conservative inspired leak, which should tell you all you need to know.
And, given the possibility of Corbyn becoming PM and himself triggering that Act, would the Armed Forces and Police make it clear that he would be rapidly stopped if he tried it.
Given the penal policies imposed during the Clinton presidency, they were not always terribly liberal - so I wouldn't be certain of her civil liberties credentials. There is a lot in the family record that doesn't mark them down as always being liberal on such matters.
2. The DUP (&Sylvia Hermon) will never vote to put in Corbyn
3. Sinn Fein will never take their seats.
4. May will be gone by the party conference.
Either way, you've got to love politics...
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/875746994379255808
Take out the Don't Knows for a headline figure at that's a revolutions worth of support.
And the fact that Corbyn's plan is illegal wasn't mentioned in the question - so the responses are pretty meaningless - other than as a symbol of envy
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/08/13/capital-punishment-50-years-favoured/
In any case, it's irrelevant. People can be rehoused without confiscating property.
It has honestly made me believe, that despite everything, we'll be okay as a country.
McDonnell with the pathetic us vs them mentality he is trying to stir up, will hate this.