Thanks for sharing this. Although I am a "normie" many times I have seen outpourings of empathy and thought "well they are simply doing what is expected of them, it's just a bit fake". I think it's because I normally don't show that much emotion when it comes to tragic events so I am projecting on to others which I shouldn't do.
I do sometimes wonder if everyone else is also faking it and 'Empathy' is just an emotional Ponzi scheme...
Looking at the seats where Labour is well placed to defeat the Tories next time,Chingford now has a Tory majority of just 2,438.It may not be long before the electorate drives a wooden stake shaped into a holy object like a cross deep into its MPs coffin.
Yes. We'll have to wait and see what the public inquiry and the technical reports say, but we should remember that it is perfectly possible that everyone concerned with the refurbishment - the council, the management company, the architects, the contractors, the sub-contractors, the suppliers and the building inspectors who signed it all off - did everything absolutely correctly and diligently ensured that the regulations and 'best practice' were followed. The problem might simply be that the regulations and 'best practice' are wrong, but if so it's not the fault of those working on this particular project. Of course, it's also possible that corners were cut; the cladding might not have been installed correctly, for example, or the fire-barriers not properly resealed between floors. We'll just have to wait for the answers.
Indeed, The end conclusion might be that actually no-one is to directly blame, but things could have been done and should be done better.
But I think the lynch mob might not be happy with that.
Here's a perspective from the high-functioning end of the spectrum. I can only speak for myself, but these traits may well apply to the PM and others:
'Empathy', whatever that really is, feels like pretending. It generally comes across as empty platitudes that, when expressed, feel fraudulent. I know what I'm *supposed* to do to appear empathetic. I've learned the things to say and to some extent even the body language etc. to the point where some people have actually complimented me on my level of understanding. But internally, I'm playing a game to which I've studied the rules. I know to others it's a genuine thing, but it feels fake, and when I see others doing it, it looks fake. Disingenuous. Going through the motions. Makes me cynical about it, even if - to 'normals' it's entirely heartfelt.
Those of us with a self-awareness of our AS tendencies can learn to conceal and work around them, but it's a big step outside of our comfort zone and hard to maintain 24/7. We learn to keep our mouths shut rather than open them and risk making things worse.
For example, when I heard about the Tower fire, most people - unless they're all playing a game too - would've been filled with sadness, compassion, shock. The human reactions we're all supposed and expected to have.
I knew I had to keep sthtum because I was instinctively thinking things like 'Maybe there's a God and he's punishing Kensington for electing a Labour MP' and 'Ooh, if 20 people die that'll probably wipe out the slim Labour majority'. 'Hundreds of thousands of people die every day across the word, why single out these ones for attention?'... Yep, I know. Totally inappropriate and makes me come across like a complete cunt, so I bite my tongue and nod along with the platitudes like a silent, cynical dog.
It's one of the things that has put me off seriously seeking elected office. I just can't be that dishonest all the time, and in my natural state I'd reinforce the baby-eating stereotype like there was no tomorrow. But, when I'm on top of a situation - setting the narrative and playing to my strengths - nobody would know any different. But in politics you have to deal with other people and other narratives.
I suspect May and Brown might both have a bit of this in them - not that I'm accusing either of them of being anywhere near as heartless a beast as I am, obviously!
Thanks for sharing this. Although I am a "normie" many times I have seen outpourings of empathy and thought "well they are simply doing what is expected of them, it's just a bit fake". I think it's because I normally don't show that much emotion when it comes to tragic events so I am projecting on to others which I shouldn't do.
Nunu, aren't you also nunuone? I'm not implying anything untoward, just curious as to why your dipping into both usernames in the same thread.
What then of the Liberal Democrat election performance and the subsequent resignation of Tim Farron ?
I voted for Tim in 2015 and don't regret doing so. Tim was then what Paddy was in 1988 - a beacon of light, hope and above all energy who spoke directly to the activists for he was one and gave members, both old and new, a reason to pick themselves up, dust themselves off and start again.
Paddy had Eastbourne, Tim had Richmond Park - the big by-election win which became their personal baptism of fire. Tim, however, didn't have enough time to consolidate before the election came upon him. Paddy, let's not forget, had his little local difficulty before the 1992 election and in the end the party's vote share fell back to 17.8% in the face of the extraordinary surge to John Major.
Tim couldn't afford to go back that far - all the Party could do was abandon even more of the country than usual and concentrate on 30-50 seats, most of which within the original 46 break-though seats of 1997.
The problem was the campaign failed to make the initial impact because Tim got bogged down on questions relating to his faith. Now, I've no problem with a political person having faith - the failing was not the faith itself but Tim's inability to either anticipate or deal with the inevitable questions about his personal stance on homosexuality. I'm convinced Tim has never allowed his personal convictions to influence party policy but in an increasingly Presidential style election his personal values become matters of public interest and however much this is a regrettable consequence of said political style the Party is framed within the prism of the leader - so much so that Theresa May wanted votes of "me and my team".
Tim is rightly angry about how he has been treated but John Major once opined that politics "is a rough trade" and Tim's advisers (and Tim himself) should have been aware previous answers on this issue would be dredged up and used against him just as Corbyn and McDonnell suffered (and indeed May to a much more limited extent).
As to whether Tim feels slighted by the Party, I don't know though his resignation speech wasn't free of bitterness. I hope he remains an MP and his hold in Westmoreland & Lonsdale (our Cumbrian Tory contributor would have been unbearable) along with Tom Brake's hold in Carshalton & Wallington (any comments, Timmo ?) were the highlights of a patchy evening.
Here we are again, looking for a new leader. Vince Cable is and would be the ideal caretaker as he proved before. I noted some of the negative comments about Jo Swinson from the morning Conservative shift - predictable of course. I'd like a contest and I'd still like Tom Brake to stand though I know he won't. I'll go to the Hustings in London and make my mind up after listening to all the candidates.
Yes. We'll have to wait and see what the public inquiry and the technical reports say, but we should remember that it is perfectly possible that everyone concerned with the refurbishment - the council, the management company, the architects, the contractors, the sub-contractors, the suppliers and the building inspectors who signed it all off - did everything absolutely correctly and diligently ensured that the regulations and 'best practice' were followed. The problem might simply be that the regulations and 'best practice' are wrong, but if so it's not the fault of those working on this particular project. Of course, it's also possible that corners were cut; the cladding might not have been installed correctly, for example, or the fire-barriers not properly resealed between floors. We'll just have to wait for the answers.
Indeed, The end conclusion might be that actually no-one is to directly blame, but things could have been done and should be done better.
(Snap)
That is often the case in incidents. Things happen, and no one individual or organisation is to blame.
I hope the inquiry looks into why, despite the fires involving similar claddings around the world, and the fact they had been banned in some other countries, we had not reacted. Or perhaps we were reacting, but the whole process had come too late.
Certainly if the cladding was a significant factor, then there have been several major warning signs.
The UK has agreed to sort out its EU "divorce bill" and citizens' residence rights before starting Brexit trade talks, EU sources have told the BBC.
So... no Brexit talks for some weeks / months yet? Thank heavens we are using the world's greatest negotiators to seal the Brexit deal before October 2018 when time runs out otherwise I would be worried.
But magically we will sort out the Irish border question without knowing what the trading relationship will be.....
For example, when I heard about the Tower fire, most people - unless they're all playing a game too - would've been filled with sadness, compassion, shock. The human reactions we're all supposed and expected to have.
I knew I had to keep sthtum because I was instinctively thinking things like 'Maybe there's a God and he's punishing Kensington for electing a Labour MP' and 'Ooh, if 20 people die that'll probably wipe out the slim Labour majority'. 'Hundreds of thousands of people die every day across the word, why single out these ones for attention?'... Yep, I know. Totally inappropriate and makes me come across like a complete cunt, so I bite my tongue and nod along with the platitudes like a silent, cynical dog.
i wonder about that. I don't think I have any problem empathising with people I know, but I don't really react emotionally to the mere fact of the deaths of people I've never met. If there's harrowing footage or a tragic personal story, yes, but I sometimes wonder about the genuineness of most people's emotional reactions to the deaths of strangers.
The UK has agreed to sort out its EU "divorce bill" and citizens' residence rights before starting Brexit trade talks, EU sources have told the BBC.
So... no Brexit talks for some weeks / months yet? Thank heavens we are using the world's greatest negotiators to seal the Brexit deal before October 2018 when time runs out otherwise I would be worried.
But magically we will sort out the Irish border question without knowing what the trading relationship will be.....
Here's a perspective from the high-functioning end of the spectrum. I can only speak for myself, but these traits may well apply to the PM and others:
'Empathy', whatever that really is, feels like pretending. It generally comes across as empty platitudes that, when expressed, feel fraudulent. I know what I'm *supposed* to do to appear empathetic. I've learned the things to say and to some extent even the body language etc. to the point where some people have actually complimented me on my level of understanding. But internally, I'm playing a game to which I've studied the rules. I know to others it's a genuine thing, but it feels fake, and when I see others doing it, it looks fake. Disingenuous. Going through the motions. Makes me cynical about it, even if - to 'normals' it's entirely heartfelt.
Those of us with a self-awareness of our AS tendencies can learn to conceal and work around them, but it's a big step outside of our comfort zone and hard to maintain 24/7. We learn to keep our mouths shut rather than open them and risk making things worse.
For example, when I heard about the Tower fire, most people - unless they're all playing a game too - would've been filled with sadness, compassion, shock. The human reactions we're all supposed and expected to have.
I knew I had to keep sthtum because I was instinctively thinking things like 'Maybe there's a God and he's punishing Kensington for electing a Labour MP' and 'Ooh, if 20 people die that'll probably wipe out the slim Labour majority'. 'Hundreds of thousands of people die every day across the word, why single out these ones for attention?'... Yep, I know. Totally inappropriate and makes me come across like a complete cunt, so I bite my tongue and nod along with the platitudes like a silent, cynical dog.
It's one of the things that has put me off seriously seeking elected office. I just can't be that dishonest all the time, and in my natural state I'd reinforce the baby-eating stereotype like there was no tomorrow. But, when I'm on top of a situation - setting the narrative and playing to my strengths - nobody would know any different. But in politics you have to deal with other people and other narratives.
I suspect May and Brown might both have a bit of this in them - not that I'm accusing either of them of being anywhere near as heartless a beast as I am, obviously!
You should be commended for your honesty.
My son too attempts to 'normalise' his behaviour to comply with societies' expectations. He does not find it easy, and society does not always accept his efforts. One could also argue that 'normal' takes some work to define accurately.
Looking at the seats where Labour is well placed to defeat the Tories next time,Chingford now has a Tory majority of just 2,438.It may not be long before the electorate drives a wooden stake shaped into a holy object like a cross deep into its MPs coffin.
Chingford has been trending Labour for a while. What was once a very safe Tory seat is now a marginal and Labour should take it next time, by squeezing the pips out of what's left of the Green and Liberal vote.
It's an interesting seat. Was part of Essex until the 1960s but (the Chingford part) has always had a London postcode and is now on the Overground network (and therefore the Tube map). Has become a destination for middle class metropolitans with young families as the schools are good and it is right on the edge of Epping Forest, which is a beautiful place. Demographic shifts there will do for IDS and the Tories as the trendies slowly smoke out the ageing Essex crowd. A few other seats on the London/Essex borders are going the same way – Ilford North is trending to a Labour safe seat when it was a Tory seat until fairly recently.
I'm convinced Tim has never allowed his personal convictions to influence party policy but in an increasingly Presidential style election his personal values become matters of public interest and however much this is a regrettable consequence of said political style the Party is framed within the prism of the leader - so much so that Theresa May wanted votes of "me and my team".
Farron voted against banning discrimination based on sexual orientation.
I find it well nigh impossible to believe that vote - in a liberal politician of the younger generation - was unconnected with his religious beliefs.
The UK has agreed to sort out its EU "divorce bill" and citizens' residence rights before starting Brexit trade talks, EU sources have told the BBC.
So... no Brexit talks for some weeks / months yet? Thank heavens we are using the world's greatest negotiators to seal the Brexit deal before October 2018 when time runs out otherwise I would be worried.
But magically we will sort out the Irish border question without knowing what the trading relationship will be.....
The Irish border question will constrain the legal and trading relationship, for NI at least; it will not be an afterthought.
I listened to Radio 4 at Lunch. They were taliking about how for just a few quid extra panels with better fire resistance could have been fitted. They then went on to say that it was the Governments fault for not providing the finance. That block is run by a Tenant management organisation.i.e. they have tenants running it. They commissioned the works and approved the design. They spent £120,000 per flat.on the refurbishment. Yet somehow its all the Thersa Mays fault. What am I missing here. Why aren't the board members from the TMO being questioned.
Here's a perspective from the high-functioning end of the spectrum. I can only speak for myself, but these traits may well apply to the PM and others:
'Empathy', whatever that really is, feels like pretending. It generally comes across as empty platitudes that, when expressed, feel fraudulent. I know what I'm *supposed* to do to appear empathetic. I've learned the things to say and to some extent even the body language etc. to the point where some people have actually complimented me on my level of understanding. But internally, I'm playing a game to which I've studied the rules. I know to others it's a genuine thing, but it feels fake, and when I see others doing it, it looks fake. Disingenuous. Going through the motions. Makes me cynical about it, even if - to 'normals' it's entirely heartfelt.
Those of us with a self-awareness of our AS tendencies can learn to conceal and work around them, but it's a big step outside of our comfort zone and hard to maintain 24/7. We learn to keep our mouths shut rather than open them and risk making things worse.
For example, when I heard about the Tower fire, most people - unless they're all playing a game too - would've been filled with sadness, compassion, shock. The human reactions we're all supposed and expected to have.
I knew I had to keep sthtum because I was instinctively thinking things like 'Maybe there's a God and he's punishing Kensington for electing a Labour MP' and 'Ooh, if 20 people die that'll probably wipe out the slim Labour majority'. 'Hundreds of thousands of people die every day across the word, why single out these ones for attention?'... Yep, I know. Totally inappropriate and makes me come across like a complete cunt, so I bite my tongue and nod along with the platitudes like a silent, cynical dog.
It's one of the things that has put me off seriously seeking elected office. I just can't be that dishonest all the time, and in my natural state I'd reinforce the baby-eating stereotype like there was no tomorrow. But, when I'm on top of a situation - setting the narrative and playing to my strengths - nobody would know any different. But in politics you have to deal with other people and other narratives.
I suspect May and Brown might both have a bit of this in them - not that I'm accusing either of them of being anywhere near as heartless a beast as I am, obviously!
I am identical! I thought there was something wrong with me as I couldn't identify with these types of emotion. Luckily my wife understands and tries to keep me from too many social gaffs. With most of these catastrophies I get bored really quickly and want the news cycle to move on.
The UK has agreed to sort out its EU "divorce bill" and citizens' residence rights before starting Brexit trade talks, EU sources have told the BBC.
So... no Brexit talks for some weeks / months yet? Thank heavens we are using the world's greatest negotiators to seal the Brexit deal before October 2018 when time runs out otherwise I would be worried.
But magically we will sort out the Irish border question without knowing what the trading relationship will be.....
Guinness >>>>> <<<<< £££££££</p>
If only it was that simple:
The story of Guinness exports shows the potential cost of the UK’s decision to leave the European Union. Brewed at St James’s Gate in Dublin, what’s in almost every bottle and can of the stout crosses the Border twice before reaching beer drinkers.
Ingredients from all over Ireland arrive in Dublin, where the water, barley, hops and yeast are mixed and brewed. The beer is then pumped into tanker trucks and carried 165km north to Belfast. There, it’s bottled and canned before being sent back South for distribution.
The more I read about it, the more information that comes out, the more I think the Grenfell Tower disaster will be a pivotal force for change:
1. A building seemingly with no functioning alarm system, or sprinkler, or fire protection, with dodgy electrics, with cladding that flashes into flame added at lowest possible cost 2. Building managed for profit by a company seemingly more interested in threatening legal action against worried residents than listening to their valid concerns 3. Assurances that the building code was followed - which raises questions about the validity of the code and the thousands of other high rise blocks housing similar low income communities 4. Recommendations dodged by the Tories in the last parliament after the Camberwell fire, the vote against ensuring housing is fit for habitation, the warnings that cuts to fire cover would be dangerous, and now May/Barwell etc running for cover ...
Technically they spent far too much on this block. £120k per flat. They then tried to faff around saving £15 or so per flat with fatal consequences - though I think the lack of compartments may prove to be a key factor which first allowed the fire to spread.
You can build very good medium-rise, i.e. ~4-storey terraced housing for less than that cost per dwelling. It can be absolutely delightful; look how well the central London squares have aged. You don't need sprinklers either.
I think that the report will find that the plastic window frames melted with the external fire which allowed the flames to access the individual flats.
Construction is a complex system but there are supposed to be set ways of doing things that prioritise safety over everything else (e.g cosmetic concerns). For the builders' and for the residents' sakes. Something went terribly wrong at Grenfell, but we can't assume it's a one-off. From what one hears and reads it seems like building standards have fallen as extras are added, costs are squeezed, and building often takes place in a piecemeal manner.
Fire alarms and sprinklers are a bit of a red herring. Fire containment is a very good system which has worked in the vast majority of tower-block fires. The system was compromised at Grenfell, and other blocks that've been "improved" now need to be carefully checked, and remedial measures taken.
One particular problem at Grenfell was that the emergency service procedures weren't adapted to the circumstances. It was obvious within a few minutes of the fire starting that containment had failed, and yet when people rang 999 they were told to stay put.
My view on JC is the same as myself as I come up for reelection onto my CLP Exec - the best person for the job until someone better comes along.
Do I like some of JC's past waffle? No - but find me any politician or person who has a flawless past. He is authentic in how right on he is - and I'll take authentic yoghurt knitter over authentic unscrupulous liar any day.
Kendall? A non-entity who seemed to think a return to the 'glories' of 2005 was a good idea. We need to look forwards not back - this bloody country always looks backwards, which is how we end up backwards compared to so many of our neighbours.
I am truly perplexed at the move so far leftwards, but then my view is also that we are still within the GFC envelope and the consequences of that have not played out. It also of course coincides with the zeitgeist of what have I got to lose.
Fascinating times regardless; I suppose my partisan point would be that the left's experiment, if it blows up (it often does) will harm most those who can least afford it. Like Brexit, in fact.
What's your view on Brexit?
I voted to leave. Wanting the EFTA solution which is rapidly becoming our only viable solution.
What move leftwards? Compare the Labour manifesto to the policies of the right wing conservative government in Germany. They have state run enterprise. They have investment in skills and infrastructure. They have social housing and compassion. They have workers empowered on company boards. They have an economy in far ruder health than ours.
What seems clear is that the post-Thatcher settlement of let the market decide is broken, and I believe we are now seeing its final demise as an acceptable worldview. What follows is to the left of what has been, but is not "the far left". And this could have been avoided had it not been for the sociopathic nature of Tory policies on welfare led by that fuck Duncan Smith cheered on by that other fuck Dacre. People are more than just statistics, and the voyeuristic abuse of the poor and sick and dying this past decade will be remembered with the same revulsion as memories of open racism of the past.
The Tories need to remember that before CamerOsbrown they used to be people - John Major was a thoroughly decent man who would never have allowed his government to treat human beings with such wanton disregard. Otherwise they will be swept away by the anti-austerity pro-humanity wave that is turning this nation. People didn't used to be selfish self-centred and ignorant as they now are, and the young are leading the rebellion against this aberration.
From the comments from some here on PB, and from others elsewhere, the Tory MP's are not experiencing a pleasant welcome home in their constituencies. Looks like there might be interesting happenings in Westminster on Monday when they start comparing notes...
Here's a perspective from the high-functioning end of the spectrum. I can only speak for myself, but these traits may well apply to the PM and others:
'Empathy', whatever that really is, feels like pretending. It generally comes across as empty platitudes that, when expressed, feel fraudulent. I know what I'm *supposed* to do to appear empathetic. I've learned the things to say and to some extent even the body language etc. to the point where some people have actually complimented me on my level of understanding. But internally, I'm playing a game to which I've studied the rules. I know to others it's a genuine thing, but it feels fake, and when I see others doing it, it looks fake. Disingenuous. Going through the motions. Makes me cynical about it, even if - to 'normals' it's entirely heartfelt.
Those of us with a self-awareness of our AS tendencies can learn to conceal and work around them, but it's a big step outside of our comfort zone and hard to maintain 24/7. We learn to keep our mouths shut rather than open them and risk making things worse.
For example, when I heard about the Tower fire, most people - unless they're all playing a game too - would've been filled with sadness, compassion, shock. The human reactions we're all supposed and expected to have.
I knew I had to keep sthtum because I was instinctively thinking things like 'Maybe there's a God and he's punishing Kensington for electing a Labour MP' and 'Ooh, if 20 people die that'll probably wipe out the slim Labour majority'. 'Hundreds of thousands of people die every day across the word, why single out these ones for attention?'... Yep, I know. Totally inappropriate and makes me come across like a complete cunt, so I bite my tongue and nod along with the platitudes like a silent, cynical dog.
It's one of the things that has put me off seriously seeking elected office. I just can't be that dishonest all the time, and in my natural state I'd reinforce the baby-eating stereotype like there was no tomorrow. But, when I'm on top of a situation - setting the narrative and playing to my strengths - nobody would know any different. But in politics you have to deal with other people and other narratives.
I suspect May and Brown might both have a bit of this in them - not that I'm accusing either of them of being anywhere near as heartless a beast as I am, obviously!
I am identical! I thought there was something wrong with me as I couldn't identify with these types of emotion. Luckily my wife understands and tries to keep me from too many social gaffs. With most of these catastrophies I get bored really quickly and want the news cycle to move on.
From the comments from some here on PB, and from others elsewhere, the Tory MP's are not experiencing a pleasant welcome home in their constituencies. Looks like there might be interesting happenings in Westminster on Monday when they start comparing notes...
There is a tide in the affair of men Which, if taken at the flood, leads on to fortune; Omitted, all the voyage of their life Is bound in shallows and in miseries
If the Conservatives are going to act, they can't afford to wait till Monday.
From the comments from some here on PB, and from others elsewhere, the Tory MP's are not experiencing a pleasant welcome home in their constituencies. Looks like there might be interesting happenings in Westminster on Monday when they start comparing notes...
There is a tide in the affair of men Which, if taken at the flood, leads on to fortune; Omitted, all the voyage of their life Is bound in shallows and in miseries
If the Conservatives are going to act, they can't afford to wait till Monday.
I see nothing to stop Labour sweeping all 60 seats in Newham next year and it now seems Ilford North is secure so Redbridge will probably stay in Labour hands. London's local contests next year will be of significance and it may well be the 2022 contests will take place on General Election day.
If the Conservative/DUP alliance sticks, do people think the Tories likely to lose most of their London councils - e.g. K&C, Kingston, Richmond, Wandsworth, Westminster etc? I'd have thought there's a bet that Bromley might be the only Tory authority in London in May 2018.
Boris Johnson was favourite to succeed David Cameron in 2016. David Miliband was favourite to succeed Gordon Brown. Theresa May was favourite to win a landslide in 2017. Hillary Clinton was favourite to be President. Dennis Healey was favourite to succeed Jim Callaghan in 1980. Norman Tebbit was favourite to succeed Margaret Thatcher in 1984. Michael Heseltine was favourite to succeed Margaret Thatcher in 1990. Neil Kinnock was favourite to beat John Major in 1992. Jeremy Corbyn is favourite to succeed Theresa May. Oh dear!
I listened to Radio 4 at Lunch. They were taliking about how for just a few quid extra panels with better fire resistance could have been fitted. They then went on to say that it was the Governments fault for not providing the finance. That block is run by a Tenant management organisation.i.e. they have tenants running it. They commissioned the works and approved the design. They spent £120,000 per flat.on the refurbishment. Yet somehow its all the Thersa Mays fault. What am I missing here. Why aren't the board members from the TMO being questioned.
I think you misunderstand.
Grenfell Tower is run by the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organization not directly by the tenants. It's a private company mandated by the local council to run almost 9,500 properties of council stock.
From the comments from some here on PB, and from others elsewhere, the Tory MP's are not experiencing a pleasant welcome home in their constituencies. Looks like there might be interesting happenings in Westminster on Monday when they start comparing notes...
There is a tide in the affair of men Which, if taken at the flood, leads on to fortune; Omitted, all the voyage of their life Is bound in shallows and in miseries
If the Conservatives are going to act, they can't afford to wait till Monday.
Perhaps it's time for TM to act !
Theresa May is acting as Prime Minister. She's not getting rave reviews of late.
The UK has agreed to sort out its EU "divorce bill" and citizens' residence rights before starting Brexit trade talks, EU sources have told the BBC.
So... no Brexit talks for some weeks / months yet? Thank heavens we are using the world's greatest negotiators to seal the Brexit deal before October 2018 when time runs out otherwise I would be worried.
An EU source? They'll be spinning. A UK source would be spinning. Critical faculties should be applied when taking on these comments.
I would pay absolutely no attention to any of these tweets: their sole purpose is to act as psychological anchoring.
The reality is, and has always been, that there will be several tracks of negotiations proceeding in parallel. The issue I have with the UK government's approach is that I really don't know what it is we want. Do we want qualified freedom of movement (i.e. with a job offer, or a requirement to buy health insurance) or a points based system or quotas?
Do we care about retaining financial passporting? Are we planning to retain the Common Travel Area? etc.
Now, it could be that we have a coherent plan for Britain's relationship with the EU post 2019. But I fear that we simply don't know what we want, as the government tries desparately to balance the demands of Leavers, Remainers, industry, finance and backbenchers.
I see nothing to stop Labour sweeping all 60 seats in Newham next year and it now seems Ilford North is secure so Redbridge will probably stay in Labour hands. London's local contests next year will be of significance and it may well be the 2022 contests will take place on General Election day.
If the Conservative/DUP alliance sticks, do people think the Tories likely to lose most of their London councils - e.g. K&C, Kingston, Richmond, Wandsworth, Westminster etc? I'd have thought there's a bet that Bromley might be the only Tory authority in London in May 2018.
It's hard to see Bexley falling but not inconceivable and Westminster will probably be safe for the Conservatives. Counter intuitively I think the Conservatives might retake Sutton.
My view on JC is the same as myself as I come up for reelection onto my CLP Exec - the best person for the job until someone better comes along.
Do I like some of JC'sghbours.
I am truly perplexed at the move so far leftwards, but then my view is also that we are still within the GFC envelope and the consequences of that have not played out. It also of course coincides with the zeitgeist of what have I got to lose.
Fascinating times regardless; I suppose my partisan point would be that the left's experiment, if it blows up (it often does) will harm most those who can least afford it. Like Brexit, in fact.
What's your view on Brexit?
I voted to leave. Wanting the EFTA solution which is rapidly becoming our only viable solution.
What move leftwards? Compare the Labour manifesto to the policies of the right wing conservative government in Germany. They have state run enterprise. They have investment in skills and infrastructure. They have social housing and compassion. They have workers empowered on company boards. They have an economy in far ruder health than ours.
What seems clear is that the post-Thatcher settlement of let the market decide is broken, and I believe we are now seeing its final demise as an acceptable worldview. What follows is to the left of what has been, but is not "the far left". And this could have been avoided had it not been for the sociopathic nature of Tory policies on welfare led by that fuck Duncan Smith cheered on by that other fuck Dacre. People are more than just statistics, and the voyeuristic abuse of the poor and sick and dying this past decade will be remembered with the same revulsion as memories of open racism of the past.
The Tories need to remember that before CamerOsbrown they used to be people - John Major was a thoroughly decent man who would never have allowed his government to treat human beings with such wanton disregard. Otherwise they will be swept away by the anti-austerity pro-humanity wave that is turning this nation. People didn't used to be selfish self-centred and ignorant as they now are, and the young are leading the rebellion against this aberration.
I think it comes down to a view of how big you think the state should be. I think it expanded overly under Gordon Brown and therefore there needed to be a contraction. We can argue whether it should be X% o Y% but it is a legitimate discussion to have.
When your rhetoric includes the old CiF "treat human beings with such wanton disregard" I think it diminishes your argument, not to say political world view.
"Cameron boasted of presiding over the “first Government in modern history to leave office with fewer regulations than when it entered,” before revealing plans to tear out vast chunks of the rule book that govern the size and quality of our new homes. He plans to cut around 90% of thousands of pages of “over-zealous rules”, reducing over a hundred “overlapping and confusing standards” for new homes to less than 10.
The detail of precisely which standards are facing the axe has yet to be announced, but reports suggest it will include regulations that specify the minimum size of windows, as well as demands for on-site renewable energy sources and some councils' minimum room sizes. The Code for Sustainable Homes, the environmental assessment method for rating and certifying the performance of new homes, is also likely to be in the firing line. These reforms, the government claims, will save around £500 for every new home built – equating to £60m extra profit per year for the house-builders."
I listened to Radio 4 at Lunch. They were taliking about how for just a few quid extra panels with better fire resistance could have been fitted. They then went on to say that it was the Governments fault for not providing the finance. That block is run by a Tenant management organisation.i.e. they have tenants running it. They commissioned the works and approved the design. They spent £120,000 per flat.on the refurbishment. Yet somehow its all the Thersa Mays fault. What am I missing here. Why aren't the board members from the TMO being questioned.
I think you misunderstand.
Grenfell Tower is run by the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organization not directly by the tenants. It's a private company mandated by the local council to run almost 9,500 properties of council stock.
There are tenants on the board. Can you explain why the CE of this company has not been all over the TV expalining the decision to re-clad this building?
For example, when I heard about the Tower fire, most people - unless they're all playing a game too - would've been filled with sadness, compassion, shock. The human reactions we're all supposed and expected to have.
I knew I had to keep sthtum because I was instinctively thinking things like 'Maybe there's a God and he's punishing Kensington for electing a Labour MP' and 'Ooh, if 20 people die that'll probably wipe out the slim Labour majority'. 'Hundreds of thousands of people die every day across the word, why single out these ones for attention?'... Yep, I know. Totally inappropriate and makes me come across like a complete cunt, so I bite my tongue and nod along with the platitudes like a silent, cynical dog.
i wonder about that. I don't think I have any problem empathising with people I know, but I don't really react emotionally to the mere fact of the deaths of people I've never met. If there's harrowing footage or a tragic personal story, yes, but I sometimes wonder about the genuineness of most people's emotional reactions to the deaths of strangers.
I'd query to what extent that confuses empathising with emoting.
Some people are very demonstrative in their emotional reactions to the misfortunes of strangers. For more reserved people like me (and it appears you) this looks a bit peculiar and we have the lingering suspicion that it's a bit faked.
But that's not really the same as empathising - broadly being able to get into the head of those caught up in it (imperfectly of course) and getting some (moderate) sympathy pains.
And there's nothing unusual about outwardly reacting in a very measured way to the misfortunes of others. That's just being reserved. Nor is there anything unusual in feeling the sympathy pains much more powerfully if your best friend is directly involved in an incident than if it's happening to people you don't know (indeed, it's arguably admirable but really pretty odd NOT to distinguish). Both are just points on the normal spectrum.
A Facebook event, Justice for Grenfell!, has been listed as taking place at 6pm outside the Department for Communities and Local Government, with more than 2,700 people said to be planning to attend.
The posting said: "At least 150 people have died in the fire at Grenfell Tower. They deserve justice. We demand answers.
"Solidarity with the residents of Grenfell Tower. Supported by Grenfell action group, Defend Council Housing, Kensington and Chelsea Momentum, Westway23 and NW London Stand Up to Racism."
I wonder whether out of the media & social media hysteria a lot of the population are repulsed by Corbyn's attempt to exploit a tragedy and are actually OK with May's response.
I'm convinced Tim has never allowed his personal convictions to influence party policy but in an increasingly Presidential style election his personal values become matters of public interest and however much this is a regrettable consequence of said political style the Party is framed within the prism of the leader - so much so that Theresa May wanted votes of "me and my team".
Farron voted against banning discrimination based on sexual orientation.
I find it well nigh impossible to believe that vote - in a liberal politician of the younger generation - was unconnected with his religious beliefs.
I'm sure it wasn't but it was either the failure to recognise the question would be asked or the failure to work out an answer that is the problem.
The Liberal Democrats' Preamble talks about wanting a free, open and tolerant society but it doesn't preclude belief and faith and inevitably there will be areas where there is a contradiction. Many other political people have strong personal faith and could have conflict between that and their party's stand on areas of legislation.
My view is, assuming it was a free vote, that Tim could have argued a position of personal faith but recognising as leader of a party supporting a different position, he would follow the Party line publicly. Some may call it hypocrisy or double standards but I don't find a personal position of principle incompatible with an agreed policy position taken democratically by a Party and its membership. There will be other issues such as abortion for example where individuals in all parties will be deeply conflicted.
I wonder whether out of the media & social media hysteria a lot of the population are repulsed by Corbyn's attempt to exploit a tragedy and are actually OK with May's response.
Well Sadiq Khans letter to the PM is franly ridiculous. He is the Mayor of London. The building is on his patch, yet according to him its nothing to do with him and its all the PMs fault.
I wonder whether out of the media & social media hysteria a lot of the population are repulsed by Corbyn's attempt to exploit a tragedy and are actually OK with May's response.
Even the Queen had people shouting at her today on her visit. Not heckling like with the politicians, but still a big change in 'protocol' for when royals visit. The anger is going to only get worse as that death toll continues to rise. The problem is that people know that this entire incident was the result of human failings, it's a crime not a natural disaster - heads need to roll and some people should be doing jailtime over this. But as yet we don't know who exactly to blame, we just know that someone must pay - so anger is boiling over at everyone in the meantime.
I think May will unfairly take a lot of the blame over this as the lightning rod for 'the government', and likewise Khan will see this as the end of his honeymoon as mayor. Boris will also be too tainted due to his role as mayor previously. As others have noted, Corbyn and McDonnell need to ensure they are not seen to be stoking the fire, as while it may increase short term popularity it will reflect badly on them in the aftermath.
The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever. The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
She is, She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
As the parenon any level, and let me tell you the condition is no joke.
But I also have very close relatives on the spectrum - and diagnosed as such - so I know whereof I speak. It's a long spectrum, and at the high functioning end you can be "almost normal".
Asperger's is particularly hard to spot in girls unless you know what you're looking for, because they just appear rather awkward or shy, and some "female" traits are actually reinforced - quietness, rule-following, precision.
In males Aspies is much more obvious; outright autism even more so.
No one calls it 'Aspies'! Are you just taking the piss? The term 'Asperger's Syndrome' is seldom used these days. Yes the 'autistic spectrum' is as wide as it is long, but labelling anyone who displays any social unease as being autistic is downright crass and certainly unhelpful.
I saw an esteemed expert on this very subject - autistic spectrum disorders - yesterday afternoon, in person, in her office. She used the term Asperger's throughout. There has been an attempt to rename it, but it hasn't really worked.
So you're simply wrong. Moreover, Aspies is a word people who suffer from the syndrome apply to themselves, to make it seem less pejorative and medical.
I listened to Radio 4 at Lunch. They were taliking about how for just a few quid extra panels with better fire resistance could have been fitted. They then went on to say that it was the Governments fault for not providing the finance. That block is run by a Tenant management organisation.i.e. they have tenants running it. They commissioned the works and approved the design. They spent £120,000 per flat.on the refurbishment. Yet somehow its all the Thersa Mays fault. What am I missing here. Why aren't the board members from the TMO being questioned.
I think you misunderstand.
Grenfell Tower is run by the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organization not directly by the tenants. It's a private company mandated by the local council to run almost 9,500 properties of council stock.
There are tenants on the board. Can you explain why the CE of this company has not been all over the TV expalining the decision to re-clad this building?
Indeed there are tenants on board but Grenfell Tower tenants?
Perhaps the reluctance of the Chairman of the KCTMO to face residents and TV cameras comes from the lead given by our esteemed Prime Minister.
It's always odd that when blame or difficult questions are to faced that those in the frame are scarcer than a bacon sarnie at a Bar Mitzvah.
I wonder whether out of the media & social media hysteria a lot of the population are repulsed by Corbyn's attempt to exploit a tragedy and are actually OK with May's response.
I don't see why not. As all of Corbyn's growing list of apologists here keep saying, the attacks on him during the election campaign had no effect, or were even counter productive. The same logic will apply to May if the public think the attacks against her cross a line.
I still don't see what she could have done in the aftermath of that fire. She would have been roundly condemned whatever action she took, and Corbyn would have been praised whatever he did.
Saint Jeremy is the new national treasure, it seems.
I wonder whether out of the media & social media hysteria a lot of the population are repulsed by Corbyn's attempt to exploit a tragedy and are actually OK with May's response.
Very few. I am no fan, but Corbyn has always cared about the poor and disadvantaged in society. His visit to the newly homeless was completely sincere. He has a natural advantage here, because he was NOT faking it
No, the Government has not told the media to cover up the true death toll of the Grenfell Tower fire Claims that there is a 'D Notice' preventing the media from revealing the full scale of casualties of the disaster are false
I wonder whether out of the media & social media hysteria a lot of the population are repulsed by Corbyn's attempt to exploit a tragedy and are actually OK with May's response.
I don't see why not. As all of Corbyn's growing list of apologists here keep saying, the attacks on him during the election campaign had no effect, or were even counter productive. The same logic will apply to May if the public think the attacks against her cross a line.
No - the rule is that all attacks on Jeremy Corbyn are ineffective or counter-productive, and everything Theresa May does goes wrong.
I listened to Radio 4 at Lunch. They were taliking about how for just a few quid extra panels with better fire resistance could have been fitted. They then went on to say that it was the Governments fault for not providing the finance. That block is run by a Tenant management organisation.i.e. they have tenants running it. They commissioned the works and approved the design. They spent £120,000 per flat.on the refurbishment. Yet somehow its all the Thersa Mays fault. What am I missing here. Why aren't the board members from the TMO being questioned.
I think you misunderstand.
Grenfell Tower is run by the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organization not directly by the tenants. It's a private company mandated by the local council to run almost 9,500 properties of council stock.
There are tenants on the board. Can you explain why the CE of this company has not been all over the TV expalining the decision to re-clad this building?
It's a private company, but it is a company limited by guarantee. There are no shareholders, and no profits paid out to shareholders. This is very common for flat/estate management companies.
Has nobody commented yet on the extraordinary resemblance between Corbyn in that picture and Popeye The Sailor Man?
Just stick a pipe in the corner of his mouth and a can of spinach in front of him....
Was very popular Captain Pugwash some years back .Seaman Staines.Roger the cabin boy.How these names were allowed on BBc children TV I will never know.
That is a 6% underperformance for Khan in Hendon, but Zac preformed in line, so if they were reluctant to vote for Muslim Khan then they would of course be reluctant to vote for Corbyn et all.
The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever. The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
She is, She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
As the parenon any level, and let me tell you the condition is no joke.
But I also have very close relatives on the spectrum - and diagnosed as such - so I know whereof I speak. It's a long spectrum, and at the high functioning end you can be "almost normal".
Asperger's is particularly hard to spot in girls unless you know what you're looking for, because they just appear rather awkward or shy, and some "female" traits are actually reinforced - quietness, rule-following, precision.
In males Aspies is much more obvious; outright autism even more so.
No one calls it 'Aspies'! Are you just taking the piss? The term 'Asperger's Syndrome' is seldom used these days. Yes the 'autistic spectrum' is as wide as it is long, but labelling anyone who displays any social unease as being autistic is downright crass and certainly unhelpful.
I saw an esteemed expert on this very subject - autistic spectrum disorders - yesterday afternoon, in person, in her office. She used the term Asperger's throughout. There has been an attempt to rename it, but it hasn't really worked.
So you're simply wrong. Moreover, Aspies is a word people who suffer from the syndrome apply to themselves, to make it seem less pejorative and medical.
I listened to Radio 4 at Lunch. They were taliking about how for just a few quid extra panels with better fire resistance could have been fitted. They then went on to say that it was the Governments fault for not providing the finance. That block is run by a Tenant management organisation.i.e. they have tenants running it. They commissioned the works and approved the design. They spent £120,000 per flat.on the refurbishment. Yet somehow its all the Thersa Mays fault. What am I missing here. Why aren't the board members from the TMO being questioned.
I think you misunderstand.
Grenfell Tower is run by the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organization not directly by the tenants. It's a private company mandated by the local council to run almost 9,500 properties of council stock.
There are tenants on the board. Can you explain why the CE of this company has not been all over the TV expalining the decision to re-clad this building?
It's a private company, but it is a company limited by guarantee. There are no shareholders, and no profits paid out to shareholders. This is very common for flat/estate management companies.
They made the decision to reclad this building with these panels. Why are they not being challenged on that, especially when they spent £120,000 per flat on the refurb?
I wonder whether out of the media & social media hysteria a lot of the population are repulsed by Corbyn's attempt to exploit a tragedy and are actually OK with May's response.
Saint Jeremy is the new national treasure, it seems.
Of course he is. He told everyone it doesn't have to be this way. He spoke against war, austerity and the pursuit of wealth. He's a maverick that appears to care. He's different. There has been nothing like him for decades. It's intoxicating when set against ghetto misery, drudge and failed economics of the status quo.
I wonder whether out of the media & social media hysteria a lot of the population are repulsed by Corbyn's attempt to exploit a tragedy and are actually OK with May's response.
It's clear that's what you think!
I suppose I am old school in many ways with respect to emoting and I am very opposed to Corbyn. I am definitely not a Tory and I didn't vote Tory in the election. I believe Corbyn was sincere in his response but was also exploiting the tragedy. In his view all evils arise from the capitalist system so everything is subsumed to working for its overthrow and ushering in the shining new utopia.
The Tory party and the nation are discovering that May is a bit of a dud. She's not an idiot or without good thoughts or intentions. She is just too leaden, robotic and aloof. In our touchy-feely televisual age you need to be able to hang out with normal people. She can't. She's just too other-worldly. Harsh. Unfair. But true. She's becoming the story and there's a new game in town - monstering Theresa. It won't go away. Ever. The Tories face a nasty choice. Show loyalty and soldier onwards and downwards. Or be ruthless and get rid at the first sensible moment. As a Tory voter I know what I want. Replace her ASAP.
She is, She does indeed have to go at some point, and I feel sorry for her. But who replaces??
As the parenon any level, and let me tell you the condition is no joke.
But I also have very close relatives on the spectrum - and diagnosed as such - so I know whereof I speak. It's a long spectrum, and at the high functioning end you can be "almost normal".
Asperger's is particularly hard to spot in girls unless you know what you're looking for, because they just appear rather awkward or shy, and some "female" traits are actually reinforced - quietness, rule-following, precision.
In males Aspies is much more obvious; outright autism even more so.
No one calls it 'Aspies'! Are you just taking the piss? The term 'Asperger's Syndrome' is seldom used these days. Yes the 'autistic spectrum' is as wide as it is long, but labelling anyone who displays any social unease as being autistic is downright crass and certainly unhelpful.
I saw an esteemed expert on this very subject - autistic spectrum disorders - yesterday afternoon, in person, in her office. She used the term Asperger's throughout. There has been an attempt to rename it, but it hasn't really worked.
So you're simply wrong. Moreover, Aspies is a word people who suffer from the syndrome apply to themselves, to make it seem less pejorative and medical.
Has nobody commented yet on the extraordinary resemblance between Corbyn in that picture and Popeye The Sailor Man?
Just stick a pipe in the corner of his mouth and a can of spinach in front of him....
Was very popular Captain Pugwash some years back .Seaman Staines.Roger the cabin boy.How these names were allowed on BBc children TV I will never know.
I wonder whether out of the media & social media hysteria a lot of the population are repulsed by Corbyn's attempt to exploit a tragedy and are actually OK with May's response.
Yes it's shocking how the Daily Mail have been whipping the nation up into this "hysteria".
I wonder whether out of the media & social media hysteria a lot of the population are repulsed by Corbyn's attempt to exploit a tragedy and are actually OK with May's response.
Yes it's shocking how the Daily Mail have been whipping the nation up into this "hysteria".
I listened to Radio 4 at Lunch. They were taliking about how for just a few quid extra panels with better fire resistance could have been fitted. They then went on to say that it was the Governments fault for not providing the finance. That block is run by a Tenant management organisation.i.e. they have tenants running it. They commissioned the works and approved the design. They spent £120,000 per flat.on the refurbishment. Yet somehow its all the Thersa Mays fault. What am I missing here. Why aren't the board members from the TMO being questioned.
I think you misunderstand.
Grenfell Tower is run by the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organization not directly by the tenants. It's a private company mandated by the local council to run almost 9,500 properties of council stock.
There are tenants on the board. Can you explain why the CE of this company has not been all over the TV expalining the decision to re-clad this building?
It's a private company, but it is a company limited by guarantee. There are no shareholders, and no profits paid out to shareholders. This is very common for flat/estate management companies.
They made the decision to reclad this building with these panels. Why are they not being challenged on that, especially when they spent £120,000 per flat on the refurb?
I'm sure they will be. But it's important to note this has nothing to do with 'evil' landlords and profits being made on being cheap. You can find plenty of info about them on Companies house
Has nobody commented yet on the extraordinary resemblance between Corbyn in that picture and Popeye The Sailor Man?
Just stick a pipe in the corner of his mouth and a can of spinach in front of him....
Was very popular Captain Pugwash some years back .Seaman Staines.Roger the cabin boy.How these names were allowed on BBc children TV I will never know.
Sadly an urban myth used to bash (no pun intended) the BBC. The creator John Ryan successfully sued the Guardian for repeating what was originally a humorous student piss-take.
It was Tom The Cabin Boy. And Master Mate. I hope you're not believing everything you read in the newspapers ;-)
My Corbynista girlfriend thinks the Grenfell fire was the explicit fault of the Tory government and evil capitalist landlords.
By contrast, she has suspicions about the Manchester attack, and wonders if it might have been a false flag, or some kind of hoax.
She probably has an IQ of 140 and studies Hindi and Anthropology at SOAS.
Were we this mad at 21? Have the younger generation replaced drugs and booze with conspiracy theories and mass psychosis? I am genuinely bewildered.
Well Sean she is 21, stunningly beautiful and knocking off a grumpy middle-aged right-winger, so perhaps you should be more thankful that she doesn't think straight?
I wonder whether out of the media & social media hysteria a lot of the population are repulsed by Corbyn's attempt to exploit a tragedy and are actually OK with May's response.
I don't see why not. As all of Corbyn's growing list of apologists here keep saying, the attacks on him during the election campaign had no effect, or were even counter productive. The same logic will apply to May if the public think the attacks against her cross a line.
I still don't see what she could have done in the aftermath of that fire. She would have been roundly condemned whatever action she took, and Corbyn would have been praised whatever he did.
Saint Jeremy is the new national treasure, it seems.
It's all getting a bit like the 1990s where the narrative becomes 'blame everything on the Tory government, no matter how tenuous'.
The problem is that, however discredited, some of the shit is bound to stick, people start to believe the lies and scapegoating en masse is legitimised.
It's a pretty horrible time to be a true-blood Tory, but then any Tory over the age of about 37 will be wearily familiar with this sort of world. For the most successful governing machine in the history of democracy we don't half suffer some runs of terrible luck...
Has nobody commented yet on the extraordinary resemblance between Corbyn in that picture and Popeye The Sailor Man?
Just stick a pipe in the corner of his mouth and a can of spinach in front of him....
Was very popular Captain Pugwash some years back .Seaman Staines.Roger the cabin boy.How these names were allowed on BBc children TV I will never know.
Has nobody commented yet on the extraordinary resemblance between Corbyn in that picture and Popeye The Sailor Man?
Just stick a pipe in the corner of his mouth and a can of spinach in front of him....
Was very popular Captain Pugwash some years back .Seaman Staines.Roger the cabin boy.How these names were allowed on BBc children TV I will never know.
Urban myth, I thought?
Very definitely and the author sued for libel over this:
My Corbynista girlfriend thinks the Grenfell fire was the explicit fault of the Tory government and evil capitalist landlords.
By contrast, she has suspicions about the Manchester attack, and wonders if it might have been a false flag, or some kind of hoax.
She probably has an IQ of 140 and studies Hindi and Anthropology at SOAS.
Were we this mad at 21? Have the younger generation replaced drugs and booze with conspiracy theories and mass psychosis? I am genuinely bewildered.
Yes we have. It's called the Internet. Seriously, it's changing the way we perceive the world to make way for our robot overlords. Conspiracy theories, mass psychosis and amusing cat videos.
My view is, assuming it was a free vote, that Tim could have argued a position of personal faith but recognising as leader of a party supporting a different position, he would follow the Party line publicly. Some may call it hypocrisy or double standards but I don't find a personal position of principle incompatible with an agreed policy position taken democratically by a Party and its membership. There will be other issues such as abortion for example where individuals in all parties will be deeply conflicted.
Well, Farron's own strategy is to present himself as a strong proponent of gay rights, which is seriously at variance with his voting record.
That aside, the idea that opposing a ban on anti-gay discrimination could be a legitimate issue of conscience for a soi-disant liberal politician does strike me as fundamentally hypocritical. If there's one thing liberals don't do, it's to impose their personal religious views on society at large.
My Corbynista girlfriend thinks the Grenfell fire was the explicit fault of the Tory government and evil capitalist landlords.
By contrast, she has suspicions about the Manchester attack, and wonders if it might have been a false flag, or some kind of hoax.
She probably has an IQ of 140 and studies Hindi and Anthropology at SOAS.
Were we this mad at 21? Have the younger generation replaced drugs and booze with conspiracy theories and mass psychosis? I am genuinely bewildered.
Close friend of mine is in her mid twenties and she absolutely believes Britain's foreign policy is responsible for terrorism in the UK. It is a broadly accepted standpoint in the under 30 culture which has grown up with STW being the go to protest movement. Pretty much the generation born after Thatcher I'd say.
My Corbynista girlfriend thinks the Grenfell fire was the explicit fault of the Tory government and evil capitalist landlords.
By contrast, she has suspicions about the Manchester attack, and wonders if it might have been a false flag, or some kind of hoax.
She probably has an IQ of 140 and studies Hindi and Anthropology at SOAS.
Were we this mad at 21? Have the younger generation replaced drugs and booze with conspiracy theories and mass psychosis? I am genuinely bewildered.
Yes we have. It's called the Internet. Seriously, it's changing the way we perceive the world to make way for our robot overlords. Conspiracy theories, mass psychosis and amusing cat videos.
Indeed. Perfect for the Corbyn generation. He is now the leader of a mass cult movement. Jim Jones would have been so proud of him.
Comments
I do sometimes wonder if everyone else is also faking it and 'Empathy' is just an emotional Ponzi scheme...
But I think the lynch mob might not be happy with that.
I'm not implying anything untoward, just curious as to why your dipping into both usernames in the same thread.
Wait till @Mortimer hears of this. It'll all be too much for the young chap.
I voted for Tim in 2015 and don't regret doing so. Tim was then what Paddy was in 1988 - a beacon of light, hope and above all energy who spoke directly to the activists for he was one and gave members, both old and new, a reason to pick themselves up, dust themselves off and start again.
Paddy had Eastbourne, Tim had Richmond Park - the big by-election win which became their personal baptism of fire. Tim, however, didn't have enough time to consolidate before the election came upon him. Paddy, let's not forget, had his little local difficulty before the 1992 election and in the end the party's vote share fell back to 17.8% in the face of the extraordinary surge to John Major.
Tim couldn't afford to go back that far - all the Party could do was abandon even more of the country than usual and concentrate on 30-50 seats, most of which within the original 46 break-though seats of 1997.
The problem was the campaign failed to make the initial impact because Tim got bogged down on questions relating to his faith. Now, I've no problem with a political person having faith - the failing was not the faith itself but Tim's inability to either anticipate or deal with the inevitable questions about his personal stance on homosexuality. I'm convinced Tim has never allowed his personal convictions to influence party policy but in an increasingly Presidential style election his personal values become matters of public interest and however much this is a regrettable consequence of said political style the Party is framed within the prism of the leader - so much so that Theresa May wanted votes of "me and my team".
Tim is rightly angry about how he has been treated but John Major once opined that politics "is a rough trade" and Tim's advisers (and Tim himself) should have been aware previous answers on this issue would be dredged up and used against him just as Corbyn and McDonnell suffered (and indeed May to a much more limited extent).
As to whether Tim feels slighted by the Party, I don't know though his resignation speech wasn't free of bitterness. I hope he remains an MP and his hold in Westmoreland & Lonsdale (our Cumbrian Tory contributor would have been unbearable) along with Tom Brake's hold in Carshalton & Wallington (any comments, Timmo ?) were the highlights of a patchy evening.
Here we are again, looking for a new leader. Vince Cable is and would be the ideal caretaker as he proved before. I noted some of the negative comments about Jo Swinson from the morning Conservative shift - predictable of course. I'd like a contest and I'd still like Tom Brake to stand though I know he won't. I'll go to the Hustings in London and make my mind up after listening to all the candidates.
I hope the inquiry looks into why, despite the fires involving similar claddings around the world, and the fact they had been banned in some other countries, we had not reacted. Or perhaps we were reacting, but the whole process had come too late.
Certainly if the cladding was a significant factor, then there have been several major warning signs.
has any Lib Dem MP thrown their hat into the ring yet?
<<<<< £££££££
My son too attempts to 'normalise' his behaviour to comply with societies' expectations. He does not find it easy, and society does not always accept his efforts. One could also argue that 'normal' takes some work to define accurately.
It's an interesting seat. Was part of Essex until the 1960s but (the Chingford part) has always had a London postcode and is now on the Overground network (and therefore the Tube map). Has become a destination for middle class metropolitans with young families as the schools are good and it is right on the edge of Epping Forest, which is a beautiful place. Demographic shifts there will do for IDS and the Tories as the trendies slowly smoke out the ageing Essex crowd. A few other seats on the London/Essex borders are going the same way – Ilford North is trending to a Labour safe seat when it was a Tory seat until fairly recently.
I find it well nigh impossible to believe that vote - in a liberal politician of the younger generation - was unconnected with his religious beliefs.
The story of Guinness exports shows the potential cost of the UK’s decision to leave the European Union.
Brewed at St James’s Gate in Dublin, what’s in almost every bottle and can of the stout crosses the Border twice before reaching beer drinkers.
Ingredients from all over Ireland arrive in Dublin, where the water, barley, hops and yeast are mixed and brewed. The beer is then pumped into tanker trucks and carried 165km north to Belfast. There, it’s bottled and canned before being sent back South for distribution.
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/brexit-guinness-border-crossings-highlights-potential-costs-1.3040315
Fire alarms and sprinklers are a bit of a red herring. Fire containment is a very good system which has worked in the vast majority of tower-block fires. The system was compromised at Grenfell, and other blocks that've been "improved" now need to be carefully checked, and remedial measures taken.
One particular problem at Grenfell was that the emergency service procedures weren't adapted to the circumstances. It was obvious within a few minutes of the fire starting that containment had failed, and yet when people rang 999 they were told to stay put.
Going to be Chief Whip for Lib Dems - The Return.
What move leftwards? Compare the Labour manifesto to the policies of the right wing conservative government in Germany. They have state run enterprise. They have investment in skills and infrastructure. They have social housing and compassion. They have workers empowered on company boards. They have an economy in far ruder health than ours.
What seems clear is that the post-Thatcher settlement of let the market decide is broken, and I believe we are now seeing its final demise as an acceptable worldview. What follows is to the left of what has been, but is not "the far left". And this could have been avoided had it not been for the sociopathic nature of Tory policies on welfare led by that fuck Duncan Smith cheered on by that other fuck Dacre. People are more than just statistics, and the voyeuristic abuse of the poor and sick and dying this past decade will be remembered with the same revulsion as memories of open racism of the past.
The Tories need to remember that before CamerOsbrown they used to be people - John Major was a thoroughly decent man who would never have allowed his government to treat human beings with such wanton disregard. Otherwise they will be swept away by the anti-austerity pro-humanity wave that is turning this nation. People didn't used to be selfish self-centred and ignorant as they now are, and the young are leading the rebellion against this aberration.
Did Ken Livingstone save the nation from Jez ?
Authenticity trumps empathy.
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/the-good-lucifer.html
Which, if taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries
If the Conservatives are going to act, they can't afford to wait till Monday.
Mr. Jonathan, I wonder how monopolies etc function regarding the law and online businesses.
Would the UK Government be able to restrict Amazon if its market share became excessive?
Non sequitur !
Jeremy Corbyn is favourite to succeed Theresa May. Oh dear!
He's the one they all fear.
Grenfell Tower is run by the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organization not directly by the tenants. It's a private company mandated by the local council to run almost 9,500 properties of council stock.
The press summary gives the mains points: https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2015-0220-press-summary.pdf
The reality is, and has always been, that there will be several tracks of negotiations proceeding in parallel. The issue I have with the UK government's approach is that I really don't know what it is we want. Do we want qualified freedom of movement (i.e. with a job offer, or a requirement to buy health insurance) or a points based system or quotas?
Do we care about retaining financial passporting? Are we planning to retain the Common Travel Area? etc.
Now, it could be that we have a coherent plan for Britain's relationship with the EU post 2019. But I fear that we simply don't know what we want, as the government tries desparately to balance the demands of Leavers, Remainers, industry, finance and backbenchers.
When your rhetoric includes the old CiF "treat human beings with such wanton disregard" I think it diminishes your argument, not to say political world view.
Cooper - High Reptile
Umuna - High Worm
Ashworth - High Pitched Voice
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/architecture-design-blog/2014/jan/27/david-cameron-bonfire-of-building-regulations-future-homes
"Cameron boasted of presiding over the “first Government in modern history to leave office with fewer regulations than when it entered,” before revealing plans to tear out vast chunks of the rule book that govern the size and quality of our new homes. He plans to cut around 90% of thousands of pages of “over-zealous rules”, reducing over a hundred “overlapping and confusing standards” for new homes to less than 10.
The detail of precisely which standards are facing the axe has yet to be announced, but reports suggest it will include regulations that specify the minimum size of windows, as well as demands for on-site renewable energy sources and some councils' minimum room sizes. The Code for Sustainable Homes, the environmental assessment method for rating and certifying the performance of new homes, is also likely to be in the firing line. These reforms, the government claims, will save around £500 for every new home built – equating to £60m extra profit per year for the house-builders."
Some people are very demonstrative in their emotional reactions to the misfortunes of strangers. For more reserved people like me (and it appears you) this looks a bit peculiar and we have the lingering suspicion that it's a bit faked.
But that's not really the same as empathising - broadly being able to get into the head of those caught up in it (imperfectly of course) and getting some (moderate) sympathy pains.
And there's nothing unusual about outwardly reacting in a very measured way to the misfortunes of others. That's just being reserved. Nor is there anything unusual in feeling the sympathy pains much more powerfully if your best friend is directly involved in an incident than if it's happening to people you don't know (indeed, it's arguably admirable but really pretty odd NOT to distinguish). Both are just points on the normal spectrum.
Just stick a pipe in the corner of his mouth and a can of spinach in front of him....
The posting said: "At least 150 people have died in the fire at Grenfell Tower. They deserve justice. We demand answers.
"Solidarity with the residents of Grenfell Tower. Supported by Grenfell action group, Defend Council Housing, Kensington and Chelsea Momentum, Westway23 and NW London Stand Up to Racism."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/16/grenfell-tower-tensions-could-boil-thousands-set-attend-justice/
The Liberal Democrats' Preamble talks about wanting a free, open and tolerant society but it doesn't preclude belief and faith and inevitably there will be areas where there is a contradiction. Many other political people have strong personal faith and could have conflict between that and their party's stand on areas of legislation.
My view is, assuming it was a free vote, that Tim could have argued a position of personal faith but recognising as leader of a party supporting a different position, he would follow the Party line publicly. Some may call it hypocrisy or double standards but I don't find a personal position of principle incompatible with an agreed policy position taken democratically by a Party and its membership. There will be other issues such as abortion for example where individuals in all parties will be deeply conflicted.
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/b69f8e5a7cb4337a10e5fdc5041cf796eaa20c25/0_0_650_441/master/650.jpg?w=700&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=b93c22e2fa877e73a6cd1602cc1f7af2
https://order-order.com/2017/06/16/corbynistas-peddle-grenfell-d-notice-fake-news/
I think May will unfairly take a lot of the blame over this as the lightning rod for 'the government', and likewise Khan will see this as the end of his honeymoon as mayor. Boris will also be too tainted due to his role as mayor previously. As others have noted, Corbyn and McDonnell need to ensure they are not seen to be stoking the fire, as while it may increase short term popularity it will reflect badly on them in the aftermath.
Perhaps the reluctance of the Chairman of the KCTMO to face residents and TV cameras comes from the lead given by our esteemed Prime Minister.
It's always odd that when blame or difficult questions are to faced that those in the frame are scarcer than a bacon sarnie at a Bar Mitzvah.
I still don't see what she could have done in the aftermath of that fire. She would have been roundly condemned whatever action she took, and Corbyn would have been praised whatever he did.
Saint Jeremy is the new national treasure, it seems.
He has a natural advantage here, because he was NOT faking it
Claims that there is a 'D Notice' preventing the media from revealing the full scale of casualties of the disaster are false
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/no-government-not-told-media-10634822
Goldsmith 12351 49.6%
Khan 8920 35.8%
That is a 6% underperformance for Khan in Hendon, but Zac preformed in line, so if they were reluctant to vote for Muslim Khan then they would of course be reluctant to vote for Corbyn et all.
Might be worth waiting to see what the inquiry says.....
Is Nigel Farage still a person of interest in all this?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4609334/Fireproof-cladding-Grenfell-cost-5k-more.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4610144/Theresa-accused-hiding-humanity.html
On Aspies: I used to know a lady with Asperger's who referred to herself this way.
Mr. Pulpstar, Chairman Corbyn is a man who loves the poor. Probably explains why his policies would create so many more of them.
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-prod/docs/uznIoVoGiWh77WUR9PnjBhvoQELPK-4waKuQuWCPS-Y/application-pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=ASIAI2JQZXI7FGUIFAGA&Expires=1497625550&Signature=Te4441dEoDSwvSfaOUzO+N5ofso=&x-amz-security-token=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
as you can see, its' actually the residents themselves which 'own' the company.
It was Tom The Cabin Boy. And Master Mate. I hope you're not believing everything you read in the newspapers ;-)
It's all getting a bit like the 1990s where the narrative becomes 'blame everything on the Tory government, no matter how tenuous'.
The problem is that, however discredited, some of the shit is bound to stick, people start to believe the lies and scapegoating en masse is legitimised.
It's a pretty horrible time to be a true-blood Tory, but then any Tory over the age of about 37 will be wearily familiar with this sort of world. For the most successful governing machine in the history of democracy we don't half suffer some runs of terrible luck...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/captain-pugwash-creator-traumatised-urban-5896636
NEW THREAD
That aside, the idea that opposing a ban on anti-gay discrimination could be a legitimate issue of conscience for a soi-disant liberal politician does strike me as fundamentally hypocritical. If there's one thing liberals don't do, it's to impose their personal religious views on society at large.