I don't know what Hard Berexit or Soft Brexit means. I don't want any sort of Brexit. My attachment to te EU is an emotional one born of a 48 year long relationship. I need to understand why Uber Tories are so desperate for a divorce when all I see is an EU that has been a stable and civilised partner who has always done its best in our common interest.
I wish i could say the same of the right wing Tories who are foisting this on us. They've always been out for themselves and their own. They've seldon shown compassion or judgement. They have added sweet FA to the betterment of anyone. Infact the more I think about it the more I believe the DUP have found their spiritual home.
It is not often I agree with you Roger, but this is how I feel too.
Jeremy Corbyn's many recent victories have shown him literally Napoleonic in status.As I cannot bear to consider all those horrid Tories in the next Con leader market,as his strength grows as an Atlas,it is worth looking at the next Labour leader market .My shortlist would be:no baggage,coming either from the 35 who originally nominated him in 2015 or the 40 who stood with him during the Chicken Coup 2016.Sadly that number no longer includes Jo Cox,Michael Meacher and Gerald Kaufman.Clive Lewis ticks the boxes at 10-1 but Sarah Champion,who also ticks the boxes,at 50-1 could be the long-term bet.Maybe the Labour party will decide it's time for a woman and she's had a good election. Stay strong and stable everyone.
Most of the Tories 13 million votes weren't out of any love for May, but the benefit of the doubt for economic competence. If that goes...
Canvassing actually the main reason Tories lost votes was austerity and the dementia tax and of course Corbyn means full on socialism not Blairite economic competence
I'm not sure a democracy can survive the fact that Paul has more votes than Peter. The elctorate won't accept discipline. Certainly not if there is a whiff of unfairness. I think we are headed for a splurge, a bust and tears before bedtime. Poor UK.
The scariest moment of election night for me was when Alastair Meeks posted that Corbyn should now be favourite to be next PM.
My heart went straight into my mouth, and I had flashbacks to Robert Smithson's realisation of the Florida results last year, when he instantly did a U-turn, switched his position, and went long on Trump for the Presidency.
If it hadn't been for Scotland, he would have been Prime Minister.
I don't know what Hard Berexit or Soft Brexit means. I don't want any sort of Brexit. My attachment to te EU is an emotional one born of a 48 year long relationship. I need to understand why Uber Tories are so desperate for a divorce when all I see is an EU that has been a stable and civilised partner who has always done its best in our common interest.
I wish i could say the same of the right wing Tories who are foisting this on us. They've always been out for themselves and their own. They've seldon shown compassion or judgement. They have added sweet FA to the betterment of anyone. Infact the more I think about it the more I believe the DUP have found their spiritual home.
I am married to a Bulgarian. I went to an international school. I love Majorca, France, and Switzerland, am amused by the Dutch sense of humour, admire the German work ethic and respect French obstinacy. I want an open, outward free-trading Britain in partnership with Europe.
But, I also don't want to be obliged to be part of a political union that is heading inexorably towards federalism, and institutions that have failed to reform. I want to have the right to customise our regulatory regime, and take a balanced global and European view. I think it's perfectly possible for the UK to be a strong and successful nation independent of the EU, but trading freely and cooperating closely in matters of security and other regional challenges.
I reject the caricatures on both sides. And I have no regrets about my vote.
The scariest moment of election night for me was when Alastair Meeks posted that Corbyn should now be favourite to be next PM.
My heart went straight into my mouth, and I had flashbacks to Robert Smithson's realisation of the Florida results last year, when he instantly did a U-turn, switched his position, and went long on Trump for the Presidency.
If it hadn't been for Scotland, he would have been Prime Minister.
The spread of...outcomes is vast for a relatively small vote redistribution.
Just like the referendum eh?
No, that is not correct - Remain were not a few thousand votes from winning.
If the vote had gone the other way by the same martin would the levares have shared their shoulders and said lets acept the vote and gone away. No so why should remáis res have to do that. IIRI one nivel farage was already calling for another referéndum before he realised leave had won.
The scariest moment of election night for me was when Alastair Meeks posted that Corbyn should now be favourite to be next PM.
My heart went straight into my mouth, and I had flashbacks to Robert Smithson's realisation of the Florida results last year, when he instantly did a U-turn, switched his position, and went long on Trump for the Presidency.
If it hadn't been for Scotland, he would have been Prime Minister.
Really?
Con 305 Lab 255 LD 8 Oth 23
Con maj 19.
Have you paid attention to the SNP for the last five years ?
The scariest moment of election night for me was when Alastair Meeks posted that Corbyn should now be favourite to be next PM.
My heart went straight into my mouth, and I had flashbacks to Robert Smithson's realisation of the Florida results last year, when he instantly did a U-turn, switched his position, and went long on Trump for the Presidency.
If it hadn't been for Scotland, he would have been Prime Minister.
Really?
Con 305 Lab 255 LD 8 Oth 23
Con maj 19.
I meant the Conservative outperformance in Scotland. If the Conservatives had got, say, 3 seats in Scotland instead of 13, the tally would have been something like:
Con 308 Lab 262 SNP 45 Lib Dem 12 DUP 10 Sinn Fein 7 Plaid Cymru 4 Green 1 Lady Penelope 1
Lab + SNP + PC + Green = 312
I expect the Lib Dems could also be prevailed upon to give confidence and supply, taking Prime Minister Corbyn to 324 seats.
The spread of...outcomes is vast for a relatively small vote redistribution.
Just like the referendum eh?
No, that is not correct - Remain were not a few thousand votes from winning.
If the vote had gone the other way by the same martin would the levares have shared their shoulders and said lets acept the vote and gone away. No so why should remáis res have to do that. IIRI one nivel farage was already calling for another referéndum before he realised leave had won.
Leave won by almost twice as many votes as May beat Corbyn no less, and on a higher turnout.
Not very often I agree with the EU but I do think the upshot of the hung parliament will be to make a no deal Brexit far more likely than if May had won 100 seats;
However, in his interview, Mr Barnier sounded increasingly impatient with the UK, saying: "I don't know what hard Brexit or soft Brexit means. I read yesterday 'Open Brexit' too! Brexit is withdrawal from the EU - it's the UK's decision. We're implementing it."
Well to be fair that's what Mrs May was saying before the election. All this "hard Brexit" and "soft Brexit" stuff was just brought up by Remainiacs to try and muddy the waters.
We're leaving and we've got to prepare and get on with it instead of all this angst-ridden hard and soft Brexit stuff.
Sorry no, I'm not having that, when people pointed out how difficult Brexit was going to be, we were called Remoaners.
Sadly for those who are having to deal with Brexit on a daily basis, we've been proved right.
Theresa triggered Article 50 nearly three months ago, then wasted 7 weeks on a general election, and we're even further away from any Brexit deal.
And then in the reshuffle, they lost/fired the DExEu management team. Unbelievable.
I have pointed out a number of times how woefully our Brexit team is prepared, and now it is reshuffled and possibly the directions from above have changed.
On Monday the EU negotiators might as well go straight to adjournment pending our side deciding to field a team.
John Major clearly not convinced by the DUP deal. Very concerned by impartially issue! On WATO now.
This would be the same John Major who relied on Ulster Unionist votes in the last months of his government?
Sister party MPs under Tory whip - now DUP holding the orange whip !
The Orange vote just went from UUP then to DUP now
Yes I note we now have these prats making quips about the future being orange. Yeah, you are not funny you reactionary twats. You are just embarrassing, for the country.
I understand as a signal for when the Conservative Crackpot Coalition of Chaos with the DUP is finalized, Arlene has insisted that 10 Downing Street chimney should billow orange smoke ....
The spread of...outcomes is vast for a relatively small vote redistribution.
Just like the referendum eh?
No, that is not correct - Remain were not a few thousand votes from winning.
If the vote had gone the other way by the same martin would the levares have shared their shoulders and said lets acept the vote and gone away. No so why should remáis res have to do that. IIRI one nivel farage was already calling for another referéndum before he realised leave had won.
If the vote had gone the other way, the result would have been implemented and the losing side would then have been free to campaign for a new referendum...
This Little-Pengelly went to market This Little-Pengelly stayed at home This Little-Pengelly had roast beef This Little-Pengelly had none And this Little-Pengelly went Never!, Never!, Never!, all the way home!
John Major clearly not convinced by the DUP deal. Very concerned by impartially issue! On WATO now.
Where was he during the campaign?
Both Cameron and Major offered their services to Theresa May during the campaign.
Both were rebuffed.
Wow. That does surprise and saddened me. Very foolish.
Tim Ross wrote a brilliant tome about the 2015 campaigns and particularly the Tory one. Hope he or another journo does the same about this one. Did anything go right for the blues? I mean anything, even a microscopic, nugatory nugget? I guess not.
The scariest moment of election night for me was when Alastair Meeks posted that Corbyn should now be favourite to be next PM.
My heart went straight into my mouth, and I had flashbacks to Robert Smithson's realisation of the Florida results last year, when he instantly did a U-turn, switched his position, and went long on Trump for the Presidency.
If it hadn't been for Scotland, he would have been Prime Minister.
Really?
Con 305 Lab 255 LD 8 Oth 23
Con maj 19.
Have you paid attention to the SNP for the last five years ?
He said "if it hadn't been for Scotland", so I took Scotland out...
John Major clearly not convinced by the DUP deal. Very concerned by impartially issue! On WATO now.
Where was he during the campaign?
Both Cameron and Major offered their services to Theresa May during the campaign.
Both were rebuffed.
Wow. That does surprise and saddened me. Very foolish.
Tim Ross wrote a brilliant tome about the 2015 campaigns and particularly the Tory one. Hope he or another journo does the same about this one. Did anything go right for the blues? I mean anything, even a microscopic, nugatory nugget? I guess not.
Excluding Scotland, Mansfield, the Tories were targeting that one.
John Major clearly not convinced by the DUP deal. Very concerned by impartially issue! On WATO now.
Where was he during the campaign?
Both Cameron and Major offered their services to Theresa May during the campaign.
Both were rebuffed.
Wow. That does surprise and saddened me. Very foolish.
Tim Ross wrote a brilliant tome about the 2015 campaigns and particularly the Tory one. Hope he or another journo does the same about this one. Did anything go right for the blues? I mean anything, even a microscopic, nugatory nugget? I guess not.
John Major clearly not convinced by the DUP deal. Very concerned by impartially issue! On WATO now.
Where was he during the campaign?
Both Cameron and Major offered their services to Theresa May during the campaign.
Both were rebuffed.
Wow. That does surprise and saddened me. Very foolish.
Tim Ross wrote a brilliant tome about the 2015 campaigns and particularly the Tory one. Hope he or another journo does the same about this one. Did anything go right for the blues? I mean anything, even a microscopic, nugatory nugget? I guess not.
Scotland.
Lol. Um, apart from Scotland whose campaign was run by the lady who should have been PM.
John Major clearly not convinced by the DUP deal. Very concerned by impartially issue! On WATO now.
Where was he during the campaign?
Both Cameron and Major offered their services to Theresa May during the campaign.
Both were rebuffed.
Wow. That does surprise and saddened me. Very foolish.
Tim Ross wrote a brilliant tome about the 2015 campaigns and particularly the Tory one. Hope he or another journo does the same about this one. Did anything go right for the blues? I mean anything, even a microscopic, nugatory nugget? I guess not.
Scotland.
Indeed Ms Sturgeon is about the only person to have had a worse campaign than May. If there is another election she will drop a dozen more seats.
John Major clearly not convinced by the DUP deal. Very concerned by impartially issue! On WATO now.
Where was he during the campaign?
Both Cameron and Major offered their services to Theresa May during the campaign.
Both were rebuffed.
Wow. That does surprise and saddened me. Very foolish.
Tim Ross wrote a brilliant tome about the 2015 campaigns and particularly the Tory one. Hope he or another journo does the same about this one. Did anything go right for the blues? I mean anything, even a microscopic, nugatory nugget? I guess not.
Scotland.
The Lib Dem facing Southwest went well enough too. If the election was held today, St Ives, North Devon amongst others would be well at risk. Just Bath lost there for the blues (LD facing)
For those PBers who haven't seen it may I recommend to PBers Ken Burn's excellent series on the American Civil War. A repeat showing begins this afternoon at 3:10 on PBS America - widely available on many platforms.
If the DUP is the answer then we are asking the wrong question in the 21st century.
As there is no majority government, the Lords are free to vote down any motion that comes from the commons, the Salisbury convention does not apply in this situation.
Jeremy Corbyn's many recent victories have shown him literally Napoleonic in status.As I cannot bear to consider all those horrid Tories in the next Con leader market,as his strength grows as an Atlas,it is worth looking at the next Labour leader market .My shortlist would be:no baggage,coming either from the 35 who originally nominated him in 2015 or the 40 who stood with him during the Chicken Coup 2016.Sadly that number no longer includes Jo Cox,Michael Meacher and Gerald Kaufman.Clive Lewis ticks the boxes at 10-1 but Sarah Champion,who also ticks the boxes,at 50-1 could be the long-term bet.Maybe the Labour party will decide it's time for a woman and she's had a good election. Stay strong and stable everyone.
I'd have thought a woman was nailed on for next Labour leader?
Unless Theresa manages to trash that brand as well, of course.
Michael Gove will be getting DEFRA to plant as many money trees as they can (as long as no immigrant labour is involved of course.)
If the taps are being turned on for anything, it'll be for the NHS and to offer something to the 35-54 age group on homes/childcare costs, where the Tories are very worried.
Something needs to be done on tuition fees too. Every year that passes will see another group of young people graduate with £40k debts and a lifelong grudge against the Conservatives.
Yes, it's building up a lot of resentment among a key group that is usually fairly supportive of us (25-34 AB graduates).
With inflation creeping up to 3% some people are going to be paying 6% interest on 5 figure loans. No chance of ever paying them off (unless you're wealthy and have the capital, of course)
They are not expected to. You pay until you are 48, and then it ends, whether you've repaid it or not.
If you're a high earner you can choose to pay it off early but you're not obliged.
John Major clearly not convinced by the DUP deal. Very concerned by impartially issue! On WATO now.
This would be the same John Major who relied on Ulster Unionist votes in the last months of his government?
You're trolling, surely. The DUP is a different kettle of fish.
Major set out the anti-deal arguments very well. The fact that the Welsh, Geordies, etc. will be upset about Belfast getting extra sweeties is as significant an argument as the rest. And he's quite right when he says that a deal is probably not even necessary.
I suppose May had a choice: a weak government that might survive five years, or a slightly weaker government that might not. The trouble is that the first option will put a significant and possible fatal dent in the Tories' electability.
This Little-Pengelly went to market This Little-Pengelly stayed at home This Little-Pengelly had roast beef This Little-Pengelly had none And this Little-Pengelly went Never!, Never!, Never!, all the way home!
Someone once said Daniel Hannan is the Jehovah's Witness of euroscepticism. I think that's right. He is so absolute in his convictions that any messy reality has to be rejected as false. Most people seeing the smart young men with name badges, cross the street on approach ...
Not very often I agree with the EU but I do think the upshot of the hung parliament will be to make a no deal Brexit far more likely than if May had won 100 seats;
However, in his interview, Mr Barnier sounded increasingly impatient with the UK, saying: "I don't know what hard Brexit or soft Brexit means. I read yesterday 'Open Brexit' too! Brexit is withdrawal from the EU - it's the UK's decision. We're implementing it."
Well to be fair that's what Mrs May was saying before the election. All this "hard Brexit" and "soft Brexit" stuff was just brought up by Remainiacs to try and muddy the waters.
We're leaving and we've got to prepare and get on with it instead of all this angst-ridden hard and soft Brexit stuff.
Sorry no, I'm not having that, when people pointed out how difficult Brexit was going to be, we were called Remoaners.
Sadly for those who are having to deal with Brexit on a daily basis, we've been proved right.
Theresa triggered Article 50 nearly three months ago, then wasted 7 weeks on a general election, and we're even further away from any Brexit deal.
And then in the reshuffle, they lost/fired the DExEu management team. Unbelievable.
I have pointed out a number of times how woefully our Brexit team is prepared, and now it is reshuffled and possibly the directions from above have changed.
On Monday the EU negotiators might as well go straight to adjournment pending our side deciding to field a team.
The scariest moment of election night for me was when Alastair Meeks posted that Corbyn should now be favourite to be next PM.
My heart went straight into my mouth, and I had flashbacks to Robert Smithson's realisation of the Florida results last year, when he instantly did a U-turn, switched his position, and went long on Trump for the Presidency.
If it hadn't been for Scotland, he would have been Prime Minister.
Really?
Con 305 Lab 255 LD 8 Oth 23
Con maj 19.
I meant the Conservative outperformance in Scotland.
So if you exclude the part of the country where the Tories did best and assume they did worse there, they would have been worse off?
John Major clearly not convinced by the DUP deal. Very concerned by impartially issue! On WATO now.
Where was he during the campaign?
Both Cameron and Major offered their services to Theresa May during the campaign.
Both were rebuffed.
Wow. That does surprise and saddened me. Very foolish.
Tim Ross wrote a brilliant tome about the 2015 campaigns and particularly the Tory one. Hope he or another journo does the same about this one. Did anything go right for the blues? I mean anything, even a microscopic, nugatory nugget? I guess not.
Cheer up JohnO .... there's always the last Hersham County Council Election result to reflect upon and the honours list to look forward to ....
Not very often I agree with the EU but I do think the upshot of the hung parliament will be to make a no deal Brexit far more likely than if May had won 100 seats;
A majority of 100 seats would have given May a majority for hard Brexit and her backbenchers would have demanded it, a hung Parliament makes soft Brexiteers the majority
I agree, soft Brexit is now very much on the cards. If it looks like it won't get delivered then there is every chance the public may turn their backs on the Tories and demand a hard brexit or nothing.
Or they could demand no Brexit.
The no Brexiters look likely to always be outnumbered by the leavers and accepting remainers. No Brexit is possible but remains more toxic for any of the political parties than delivering a hard brexit.
Not after a second referendum in which the painful consequences, particularly for the economy, are becoming all too clear. Acceptance is easily lost in circumstances like that.
@faisalislam: 730 days to negotiate Brexit, ambitious for exit deal alone. Government tho wanted entire Free Trade Deal. 77 days gone with no negotiation.
The scariest moment of election night for me was when Alastair Meeks posted that Corbyn should now be favourite to be next PM.
My heart went straight into my mouth, and I had flashbacks to Robert Smithson's realisation of the Florida results last year, when he instantly did a U-turn, switched his position, and went long on Trump for the Presidency.
If it hadn't been for Scotland, he would have been Prime Minister.
Really?
Con 305 Lab 255 LD 8 Oth 23
Con maj 19.
I meant the Conservative outperformance in Scotland.
So if you exclude the part of the country where the Tories did best and assume they did worse there, they would have been worse off?
At the point that I posted that Jeremy Corbyn should now be favourite to be the next PM, no results from Scotland had come through.
I realise that you are doing your best to pick an argument (which I have no interest in) but I was trying to draw attention to just how important that Scottish outperformance was.
Urrrgh Major wheeled out. That's John - too scared to put Maastricht to a referendum - Major. We need to think about the 48%, after all the 52% weren't all voting about the EU. And that old old Europhile line; Europe doesn't matter to people, it's well down their list of priorities. The lie used for years to deny people a say on whether they were to be in political union - and blown out of the water by the 17 million in 2016. Jesus.
Rant over. Totally unrelated, The Times reports Premier League now considering Sat night live fixtures. They really really don't care about the fans who actually go games do they?
Michael Gove will be getting DEFRA to plant as many money trees as they can (as long as no immigrant labour is involved of course.)
If the taps are being turned on for anything, it'll be for the NHS and to offer something to the 35-54 age group on homes/childcare costs, where the Tories are very worried.
Something needs to be done on tuition fees too. Every year that passes will see another group of young people graduate with £40k debts and a lifelong grudge against the Conservatives.
Yes, it's building up a lot of resentment among a key group that is usually fairly supportive of us (25-34 AB graduates).
With inflation creeping up to 3% some people are going to be paying 6% interest on 5 figure loans. No chance of ever paying them off (unless you're wealthy and have the capital, of course)
They are not expected to. You pay until you are 48, and then it ends, whether you've repaid it or not.
If you're a high earner you can choose to pay it off early but you're not obliged.
It's not a retail loan. It's a graduate tax.
Yes, I'm aware how the payments work (though it's actually 30 years after graduation so until 51/52 for most people). That's most of your career spent paying an additional 9% tax. Plus every year you get a statement showing the debt increasing by £000s. It's terrible optics
Not very often I agree with the EU but I do think the upshot of the hung parliament will be to make a no deal Brexit far more likely than if May had won 100 seats;
However, in his interview, Mr Barnier sounded increasingly impatient with the UK, saying: "I don't know what hard Brexit or soft Brexit means. I read yesterday 'Open Brexit' too! Brexit is withdrawal from the EU - it's the UK's decision. We're implementing it."
Well to be fair that's what Mrs May was saying before the election. All this "hard Brexit" and "soft Brexit" stuff was just brought up by Remainiacs to try and muddy the waters.
We're leaving and we've got to prepare and get on with it instead of all this angst-ridden hard and soft Brexit stuff.
Sorry no, I'm not having that, when people pointed out how difficult Brexit was going to be, we were called Remoaners.
Sadly for those who are having to deal with Brexit on a daily basis, we've been proved right.
Theresa triggered Article 50 nearly three months ago, then wasted 7 weeks on a general election, and we're even further away from any Brexit deal.
No, Remoaners were people who wanted to re run the referendum or fiilibuster BRexit
The airwaves, the press and PB are full of Tories pleadingly telling Labour what its policy on Brexit is. I cannot see how this will end happily for them?
Urrrgh Major wheeled out. That's John - too scared to put Maastricht to a referendum - Major. We need to think about the 48%, after all the 52% weren't all voting about the EU. And that old old Europhile line; Europe doesn't matter to people, it's well down their list of priorities. The lie used for years to deny people a say on whether they were to be in political union - and blown out of the water by the 17 million in 2016. Jesus.
Rant over. Totally unrelated, The Times reports Premier League now considering Sat night live fixtures. They really really don't care about the fans who actually go games do they?
I don't expect the ranting to stop any time soon. One thing obvious to me about the 2016 referendum - it wasn't going to resolve anything.
Not very often I agree with the EU but I do think the upshot of the hung parliament will be to make a no deal Brexit far more likely than if May had won 100 seats;
However, in his interview, Mr Barnier sounded increasingly impatient with the UK, saying: "I don't know what hard Brexit or soft Brexit means. I read yesterday 'Open Brexit' too! Brexit is withdrawal from the EU - it's the UK's decision. We're implementing it."
Well to be fair that's what Mrs May was saying before the election. All this "hard Brexit" and "soft Brexit" stuff was just brought up by Remainiacs to try and muddy the waters.
We're leaving and we've got to prepare and get on with it instead of all this angst-ridden hard and soft Brexit stuff.
Sorry no, I'm not having that, when people pointed out how difficult Brexit was going to be, we were called Remoaners.
Sadly for those who are having to deal with Brexit on a daily basis, we've been proved right.
Theresa triggered Article 50 nearly three months ago, then wasted 7 weeks on a general election, and we're even further away from any Brexit deal.
No, Remoaners were people who wanted to re run the referendum or fiilibuster BRexit
I don't recall such definitional niceties. I have never wanted to rerun the referendum or filibuster Brexit and have frequently been called a Remoaner.
Not very often I agree with the EU but I do think the upshot of the hung parliament will be to make a no deal Brexit far more likely than if May had won 100 seats;
However, in his interview, Mr Barnier sounded increasingly impatient with the UK, saying: "I don't know what hard Brexit or soft Brexit means. I read yesterday 'Open Brexit' too! Brexit is withdrawal from the EU - it's the UK's decision. We're implementing it."
Well to be fair that's what Mrs May was saying before the election. All this "hard Brexit" and "soft Brexit" stuff was just brought up by Remainiacs to try and muddy the waters.
We're leaving and we've got to prepare and get on with it instead of all this angst-ridden hard and soft Brexit stuff.
Sorry no, I'm not having that, when people pointed out how difficult Brexit was going to be, we were called Remoaners.
Sadly for those who are having to deal with Brexit on a daily basis, we've been proved right.
Theresa triggered Article 50 nearly three months ago, then wasted 7 weeks on a general election, and we're even further away from any Brexit deal.
No, Remoaners were people who wanted to re run the referendum or fiilibuster BRexit
I don't recall such definitional niceties. I have never wanted to rerun the referendum or filibuster Brexit and have frequently been called a Remoaner.
Two things to remember, firstly this wasn't a Corbyn manifesto - it didn't properly address immigration, it was pro-Trident and it didn't promise to undo the Tory benefits cuts..
Secondly they came nowhere near to winning a majority.
Labour's problems will re-surface when the left assert that in order to win a majority the policies need to be more radical and the Blairites claim they need to be less radical.
Not very often I agree with the EU but I do think the upshot of the hung parliament will be to make a no deal Brexit far more likely than if May had won 100 seats;
However, in his interview, Mr Barnier sounded increasingly impatient with the UK, saying: "I don't know what hard Brexit or soft Brexit means. I read yesterday 'Open Brexit' too! Brexit is withdrawal from the EU - it's the UK's decision. We're implementing it."
Well to be fair that's what Mrs May was saying before the election. All this "hard Brexit" and "soft Brexit" stuff was just brought up by Remainiacs to try and muddy the waters.
We're leaving and we've got to prepare and get on with it instead of all this angst-ridden hard and soft Brexit stuff.
Sorry no, I'm not having that, when people pointed out how difficult Brexit was going to be, we were called Remoaners.
Sadly for those who are having to deal with Brexit on a daily basis, we've been proved right.
Theresa triggered Article 50 nearly three months ago, then wasted 7 weeks on a general election, and we're even further away from any Brexit deal.
No, Remoaners were people who wanted to re run the referendum or fiilibuster BRexit
You have to admire our cunning plan to *sneak* a Remain sleeper into No. 10 to call a General Election and destroy the Government's majority?
Comments
HoC - 2:30pm - Election of Speaker ....
Both were rebuffed.
https://www.samizdata.net/2017/06/samizdata-quote-of-the-day-878/
I'm not sure a democracy can survive the fact that Paul has more votes than Peter. The elctorate won't accept discipline. Certainly not if there is a whiff of unfairness. I think we are headed for a splurge, a bust and tears before bedtime. Poor UK.
I've helped out in Tooting for six elections in a row. Disheartening enough in itself without having salty shit rubbed into the wounds.
But, I also don't want to be obliged to be part of a political union that is heading inexorably towards federalism, and institutions that have failed to reform. I want to have the right to customise our regulatory regime, and take a balanced global and European view. I think it's perfectly possible for the UK to be a strong and successful nation independent of the EU, but trading freely and cooperating closely in matters of security and other regional challenges.
I reject the caricatures on both sides. And I have no regrets about my vote.
UUP are cuddly loyalists!
Con 305
Lab 255
LD 8
Oth 23
Con maj 19.
Con 308
Lab 262
SNP 45
Lib Dem 12
DUP 10
Sinn Fein 7
Plaid Cymru 4
Green 1
Lady Penelope 1
Lab + SNP + PC + Green = 312
I expect the Lib Dems could also be prevailed upon to give confidence and supply, taking Prime Minister Corbyn to 324 seats.
Blair at a Momentum meeting, or Osborne at a Tory party meeting in the shires.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6S4O-VtZBI
On Monday the EU negotiators might as well go straight to adjournment pending our side deciding to field a team.
It is going to be a farce.
https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/874607190031597568
This Little-Pengelly went to market
This Little-Pengelly stayed at home
This Little-Pengelly had roast beef
This Little-Pengelly had none
And this Little-Pengelly went
Never!, Never!, Never!, all the way home!
No wonder May didn't use him.
Beware hubris.
Just Bath lost there for the blues (LD facing)
For those PBers who haven't seen it may I recommend to PBers Ken Burn's excellent series on the American Civil War. A repeat showing begins this afternoon at 3:10 on PBS America - widely available on many platforms.
As there is no majority government, the Lords are free to vote down any motion that comes from the commons, the Salisbury convention does not apply in this situation.
MAYhem indeed!
Unless Theresa manages to trash that brand as well, of course.
If you're a high earner you can choose to pay it off early but you're not obliged.
It's not a retail loan. It's a graduate tax.
Then I saw John Major's quotes...
Major set out the anti-deal arguments very well. The fact that the Welsh, Geordies, etc. will be upset about Belfast getting extra sweeties is as significant an argument as the rest. And he's quite right when he says that a deal is probably not even necessary.
I suppose May had a choice: a weak government that might survive five years, or a slightly weaker government that might not. The trouble is that the first option will put a significant and possible fatal dent in the Tories' electability.
https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/874595574665838592
NO SURRENDER
NO SURRENDER
TO THE DUP
@faisalislam: 730 days to negotiate Brexit, ambitious for exit deal alone. Government tho wanted entire Free Trade Deal. 77 days gone with no negotiation.
I realise that you are doing your best to pick an argument (which I have no interest in) but I was trying to draw attention to just how important that Scottish outperformance was.
We need to think about the 48%, after all the 52% weren't all voting about the EU. And that old old Europhile line; Europe doesn't matter to people, it's well down their list of priorities. The lie used for years to deny people a say on whether they were to be in political union - and blown out of the water by the 17 million in 2016.
Jesus.
Rant over. Totally unrelated, The Times reports Premier League now considering Sat night live fixtures. They really really don't care about the fans who actually go games do they?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2z0IfEPLjY
Secondly they came nowhere near to winning a majority.
Labour's problems will re-surface when the left assert that in order to win a majority the policies need to be more radical and the Blairites claim they need to be less radical.
Discuss.
Discussion complete.
Next Topic please