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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Being wrong about about Jeremy and being right about Jeremy

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  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I, for one, welcome our new Presbyterian overlords:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/874612782146179076
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If the election is called due to a collapse in the deal then who will be the first brave soul on here to tip up a Tory hold........ ?

    Kensington?....oh wiat...
    IDS would be under severe pressure I think
    Don't tantalise me like that.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    isam said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Not very often I agree with the EU but I do think the upshot of the hung parliament will be to make a no deal Brexit far more likely than if May had won 100 seats;

    http://news.sky.com/story/michel-barnier-warns-uk-it-faces-cliff-edge-no-deal-brexit-10913909

    A wake up call for some:

    However, in his interview, Mr Barnier sounded increasingly impatient with the UK, saying: "I don't know what hard Brexit or soft Brexit means. I read yesterday 'Open Brexit' too! Brexit is withdrawal from the EU - it's the UK's decision. We're implementing it."
    Well to be fair that's what Mrs May was saying before the election. All this "hard Brexit" and "soft Brexit" stuff was just brought up by Remainiacs to try and muddy the waters.

    We're leaving and we've got to prepare and get on with it instead of all this angst-ridden hard and soft Brexit stuff.
    Sorry no, I'm not having that, when people pointed out how difficult Brexit was going to be, we were called Remoaners.

    Sadly for those who are having to deal with Brexit on a daily basis, we've been proved right.

    Theresa triggered Article 50 nearly three months ago, then wasted 7 weeks on a general election, and we're even further away from any Brexit deal.
    No, Remoaners were people who wanted to re run the referendum or fiilibuster BRexit
    And what is wrong with that? If the result had been the other way Leavers would have done the same.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,728
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If the election is called due to a collapse in the deal then who will be the first brave soul on here to tip up a Tory hold........ ?

    Kensington?....oh wiat...
    IDS would be under severe pressure I think
    Con gain were to that happen

    (With apologies to Alistair McAlpine)
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Not very often I agree with the EU but I do think the upshot of the hung parliament will be to make a no deal Brexit far more likely than if May had won 100 seats;

    http://news.sky.com/story/michel-barnier-warns-uk-it-faces-cliff-edge-no-deal-brexit-10913909

    A wake up call for some:

    However, in his interview, Mr Barnier sounded increasingly impatient with the UK, saying: "I don't know what hard Brexit or soft Brexit means. I read yesterday 'Open Brexit' too! Brexit is withdrawal from the EU - it's the UK's decision. We're implementing it."
    Well to be fair that's what Mrs May was saying before the election. All this "hard Brexit" and "soft Brexit" stuff was just brought up by Remainiacs to try and muddy the waters.

    We're leaving and we've got to prepare and get on with it instead of all this angst-ridden hard and soft Brexit stuff.
    Sorry no, I'm not having that, when people pointed out how difficult Brexit was going to be, we were called Remoaners.

    Sadly for those who are having to deal with Brexit on a daily basis, we've been proved right.

    Theresa triggered Article 50 nearly three months ago, then wasted 7 weeks on a general election, and we're even further away from any Brexit deal.
    No, Remoaners were people who wanted to re run the referendum or fiilibuster BRexit
    I don't recall such definitional niceties. I have never wanted to rerun the referendum or filibuster Brexit and have frequently been called a Remoaner.
    Maybe calling everyone who voted Leave a c*nt could be a third category!
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,039

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If the election is called due to a collapse in the deal then who will be the first brave soul on here to tip up a Tory hold........ ?

    Kensington?....oh wiat...
    IDS would be under severe pressure I think
    Don't tantalise me like that.
    Majority 2,438
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,814
    edited June 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    If the election is called due to a collapse in the deal then who will be the first brave soul on here to tip up a Tory hold........ ?

    I think a second snap election now could only be with a new Tory leader, probably crowning Boris or Davis.

    In the absence of any other evidence I'd expect them to lose 50-60 seats to Labour, and Corbyn to be on the cusp of majority and in a position to form a coalition with the SNP.

    Which is exactly why the Tories would hold their seats in Scotland because the price of that coalition would obviously be indyref2.

    There is no stability to be gained from it. Quite the opposite, and it would waste more time.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    And what is wrong with that? If the result had been the other way Leavers would have done the same.

    Leavers were calling for a rerun BEFORE THE RESULT WAS ANNOUNCED!
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    MaxPB said:

    tpfkar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    'After 7 years austerity is over' May will tell Tories reports the Times
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/austerity-is-over-may-tells-tories-vvhrjk0tj

    Turn on the money taps !
    Has anyone told the Treasury yet?
    Michael Gove will be getting DEFRA to plant as many money trees as they can (as long as no immigrant labour is involved of course.)
    If the taps are being turned on for anything, it'll be for the NHS and to offer something to the 35-54 age group on homes/childcare costs, where the Tories are very worried.
    Something needs to be done on tuition fees too. Every year that passes will see another group of young people graduate with £40k debts and a lifelong grudge against the Conservatives.
    Yes, it's building up a lot of resentment among a key group that is usually fairly supportive of us (25-34 AB graduates).
    With inflation creeping up to 3% some people are going to be paying 6% interest on 5 figure loans. No chance of ever paying them off (unless you're wealthy and have the capital, of course)
    They are not expected to. You pay until you are 48, and then it ends, whether you've repaid it or not.

    If you're a high earner you can choose to pay it off early but you're not obliged.

    It's not a retail loan. It's a graduate tax.
    Yes, I'm aware how the payments work (though it's actually 30 years after graduation so until 51/52 for most people). That's most of your career spent paying an additional 9% tax. Plus every year you get a statement showing the debt increasing by £000s. It's terrible optics
    Although the additional 9% tax on top of base rate and a large personal allowance still leaves most graduates paying less than most of us paid in the past.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Not a statement you'll have seen me make terribly often on PB .... but

    John Major is correct. It is untenable for the Conservative minority government to claim that it is an honest broker in the NI peace process when it depends for its very existence on the DUP.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    IanB2 said:

    isam said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Not very often I agree with the EU but I do think the upshot of the hung parliament will be to make a no deal Brexit far more likely than if May had won 100 seats;

    http://news.sky.com/story/michel-barnier-warns-uk-it-faces-cliff-edge-no-deal-brexit-10913909

    A wake up call for some:

    However, in his interview, Mr Barnier sounded increasingly impatient with the UK, saying: "I don't know what hard Brexit or soft Brexit means. I read yesterday 'Open Brexit' too! Brexit is withdrawal from the EU - it's the UK's decision. We're implementing it."
    Well to be fair that's what Mrs May was saying before the election. All this "hard Brexit" and "soft Brexit" stuff was just brought up by Remainiacs to try and muddy the waters.

    We're leaving and we've got to prepare and get on with it instead of all this angst-ridden hard and soft Brexit stuff.
    Sorry no, I'm not having that, when people pointed out how difficult Brexit was going to be, we were called Remoaners.

    Sadly for those who are having to deal with Brexit on a daily basis, we've been proved right.

    Theresa triggered Article 50 nearly three months ago, then wasted 7 weeks on a general election, and we're even further away from any Brexit deal.
    No, Remoaners were people who wanted to re run the referendum or fiilibuster BRexit
    You have to admire our cunning plan to *sneak* a Remain sleeper into No. 10 to call a General Election and destroy the Government's majority?
    If one were a cynic, replacing a Remain PM with another without a vote then calling an election and failing to mention any of the things that won it for Leave could look a bit sneaky
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,728
    JackW said:

    Not a statement you'll have seen me make terribly often on PB .... but

    John Major is correct. It is untenable for the Conservative minority government to claim that it is an honest broker in the NI peace process when it depends for its very existence on the DUP.

    I made that point on Sunday.

    Say what you like about Sir John Major, but if wasn't for him, there'd be no peace process.

    And it should be remembered the IRA tried to murder him but he didn't hold a grudge.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Theresa May, the Gerald Ratner of the Tory party?

    Discuss.

    Somewhat unfair on Ratner ....
  • Options

    MaxPB said:

    tpfkar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    'After 7 years austerity is over' May will tell Tories reports the Times
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/austerity-is-over-may-tells-tories-vvhrjk0tj

    Turn on the money taps !
    Has anyone told the Treasury yet?
    Michael Gove will be getting DEFRA to plant as many money trees as they can (as long as no immigrant labour is involved of course.)
    If the taps are being turned on for anything, it'll be for the NHS and to offer something to the 35-54 age group on homes/childcare costs, where the Tories are very worried.
    Something needs to be done on tuition fees too. Every year that passes will see another group of young people graduate with £40k debts and a lifelong grudge against the Conservatives.
    Yes, it's building up a lot of resentment among a key group that is usually fairly supportive of us (25-34 AB graduates).
    With inflation creeping up to 3% some people are going to be paying 6% interest on 5 figure loans. No chance of ever paying them off (unless you're wealthy and have the capital, of course)
    They are not expected to. You pay until you are 48, and then it ends, whether you've repaid it or not.

    If you're a high earner you can choose to pay it off early but you're not obliged.

    It's not a retail loan. It's a graduate tax.
    Yes, I'm aware how the payments work (though it's actually 30 years after graduation so until 51/52 for most people). That's most of your career spent paying an additional 9% tax. Plus every year you get a statement showing the debt increasing by £000s. It's terrible optics
    Did you have the option to pay the fees up front?
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,497
    IanB2 said:

    isam said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Not very often I agree with the EU but I do think the upshot of the hung parliament will be to make a no deal Brexit far more likely than if May had won 100 seats;

    http://news.sky.com/story/michel-barnier-warns-uk-it-faces-cliff-edge-no-deal-brexit-10913909

    A wake up call for some:

    However, in his interview, Mr Barnier sounded increasingly impatient with the UK, saying: "I don't know what hard Brexit or soft Brexit means. I read yesterday 'Open Brexit' too! Brexit is withdrawal from the EU - it's the UK's decision. We're implementing it."
    Well to be fair that's what Mrs May was saying before the election. All this "hard Brexit" and "soft Brexit" stuff was just brought up by Remainiacs to try and muddy the waters.

    We're leaving and we've got to prepare and get on with it instead of all this angst-ridden hard and soft Brexit stuff.
    Sorry no, I'm not having that, when people pointed out how difficult Brexit was going to be, we were called Remoaners.

    Sadly for those who are having to deal with Brexit on a daily basis, we've been proved right.

    Theresa triggered Article 50 nearly three months ago, then wasted 7 weeks on a general election, and we're even further away from any Brexit deal.
    No, Remoaners were people who wanted to re run the referendum or fiilibuster BRexit
    You have to admire our cunning plan to *sneak* a Remain sleeper into No. 10 to call a General Election and destroy the Government's majority?
    Ah! That explains everything!
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Not very often I agree with the EU but I do think the upshot of the hung parliament will be to make a no deal Brexit far more likely than if May had won 100 seats;

    http://news.sky.com/story/michel-barnier-warns-uk-it-faces-cliff-edge-no-deal-brexit-10913909

    A wake up call for some:

    However, in his interview, Mr Barnier sounded increasingly impatient with the UK, saying: "I don't know what hard Brexit or soft Brexit means. I read yesterday 'Open Brexit' too! Brexit is withdrawal from the EU - it's the UK's decision. We're implementing it."
    Well to be fair that's what Mrs May was saying before the election. All this "hard Brexit" and "soft Brexit" stuff was just brought up by Remainiacs to try and muddy the waters.

    We're leaving and we've got to prepare and get on with it instead of all this angst-ridden hard and soft Brexit stuff.
    Sorry no, I'm not having that, when people pointed out how difficult Brexit was going to be, we were called Remoaners.

    Sadly for those who are having to deal with Brexit on a daily basis, we've been proved right.

    Theresa triggered Article 50 nearly three months ago, then wasted 7 weeks on a general election, and we're even further away from any Brexit deal.
    No, Remoaners were people who wanted to re run the referendum or fiilibuster BRexit
    And what is wrong with that? If the result had been the other way Leavers would have done the same.
    It would have been impossible for Leavers to have done so even if they had wanted to. We were already in the EU, how could they filibuster our entry into it?
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited June 2017
    She doesn't need the DUP. She just needs them to abstain. The long term fall out here is whether May can sell this as national interest protecting the country from Corbyn which is nigh on impossible given the tide behind him or its seen as a grubby attempt to cling on to power at any cost. Whatever she finds for Irish sweeties, why wasn't it available for the youth, pensioners, the north, Scotland, Wales, police, the NHS etc etc etc.
    The only non destructive option for the Tories is to govern as minority and dare the rainbow to vote them down. They are too greedy and damn entitled though, aren't they?
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Scott_P said:

    And what is wrong with that? If the result had been the other way Leavers would have done the same.

    Leavers were calling for a rerun BEFORE THE RESULT WAS ANNOUNCED!
    No they said they would keep campaigning to Leave. People campaigned to stay and got 7% at the GE, whats the problem?
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,852
    JackW said:

    Theresa May, the Gerald Ratner of the Tory party?

    Discuss.

    Somewhat unfair on Ratner ....
    Seriously I think you are correct. Ratner made one remark that destroyed a successful business. Theresa May has made a series of unforced errors since becoming PM and I am struggling to think of one thing she has done right.
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,446
    JackW said:

    Not a statement you'll have seen me make terribly often on PB .... but

    John Major is correct. It is untenable for the Conservative minority government to claim that it is an honest broker in the NI peace process when it depends for its very existence on the DUP.

    John Major is and always was a thoroughly decent man doing what he honestly thought was in the best interests of everyone. His work advancing the peace process was critical, and he knows in detail what its like to be the leader of a minority government propped up by an NI party, albeit one that isn't populated by nutters.

    But if Zombie wants to proceed on that basis, go right ahead. I don't know what will be funnier - the list of demands she'll have to concede to get a deal, or the DUP going way beyond sanity and no deal happening.

    Something else John Major can provide counsel on - being in office but not in power
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,599
    FF43 said:

    JackW said:

    Theresa May, the Gerald Ratner of the Tory party?

    Discuss.

    Somewhat unfair on Ratner ....
    Seriously I think you are correct. Ratner made one remark that destroyed a successful business. Theresa May has made a series of unforced errors since becoming PM and I am struggling to think of one thing she has done right.
    Larry the cat was kept on as Chief Mouser?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,039

    She doesn't need the DUP. She just needs them to abstain. The long term fall out here is whether May can sell this as national interest protecting the country from Corbyn which is nigh on impossible given the tide behind him or its seen as a grubby attempt to cling on to power at any cost. Whatever she finds for Irish sweeties, why wasn't it available for the youth, pensioners, the north, Scotland, Wales, police, the NHS etc etc etc.
    The only non destructive option for the Tories is to govern as minority and dare the rainbow to vote them down. They are too greedy and damn entitled though, aren't they?

    The DUP's know this too - the threat should the Danegeld not be paid is obviously that they join in with everyone else in the house, and vote against
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    JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    On topic, genuinely do not understand the Tory remainer who voted Labour

    Labour's manifesto makes it crystal clear they are Leavers. WTF?

    So much commentary in recent days suggests to me that millions of people voted under entirely false premises. I wonder how many people voted Labour to signal their fed-upness with austerity and the crapness of the tory campaign even though they did not support the kiddie in a sweet shop spending plans of Labour. It was lest we forget, safe to vote labour as "they could never win".

    But I suppose 'twas ever thus. the result is being massively over-interpreted though as if it was some collective decision to have a hung parliament, rather than the chaotic result of millions of disparate voters and their diverse, incoherent and inconsistent opinions even amongst individuals!
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    isam said:

    No they said they would keep campaigning to Leave.


    Nigel Farage warns today he would fight for a second referendum on Britain in Europe if the remain campaign won by a narrow margin next month.

    The Ukip leader said a small defeat for his leave camp would be “unfinished business” and predicted pressure would grow for a re-run of the 23 June ballot.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,814
    The manifesto the DUP stood on for Westminster doesn't seem that controversial to me - lots of natural common ground with Conservatives: http://www.mydup.com/publications/view/2017-westminster-manifesto
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Pulpstar said:

    She doesn't need the DUP. She just needs them to abstain. The long term fall out here is whether May can sell this as national interest protecting the country from Corbyn which is nigh on impossible given the tide behind him or its seen as a grubby attempt to cling on to power at any cost. Whatever she finds for Irish sweeties, why wasn't it available for the youth, pensioners, the north, Scotland, Wales, police, the NHS etc etc etc.
    The only non destructive option for the Tories is to govern as minority and dare the rainbow to vote them down. They are too greedy and damn entitled though, aren't they?

    The DUP's know this too - the threat should the Danegeld not be paid is obviously that they join in with everyone else in the house, and vote against
    And the answer in the national interest should be so be it. We need strong and stable, not string for Ireland and wobbly. New election essential.
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,959

    The scariest moment of election night for me was when Alastair Meeks posted that Corbyn should now be favourite to be next PM.

    My heart went straight into my mouth, and I had flashbacks to Robert Smithson's realisation of the Florida results last year, when he instantly did a U-turn, switched his position, and went long on Trump for the Presidency.

    If it hadn't been for Scotland, he would have been Prime Minister.
    Really?

    Con 305
    Lab 255
    LD 8
    Oth 23

    Con maj 19.
    I meant the Conservative outperformance in Scotland. If the Conservatives had got, say, 3 seats in Scotland instead of 13, the tally would have been something like:

    Con 308
    Lab 262
    SNP 45
    Lib Dem 12
    DUP 10
    Sinn Fein 7
    Plaid Cymru 4
    Green 1
    Lady Penelope 1

    Lab + SNP + PC + Green = 312

    I expect the Lib Dems could also be prevailed upon to give confidence and supply, taking Prime Minister Corbyn to 324 seats.
    A five-party agreement with a majority of -2? Hard to see that passing many laws. Realistically that would have been even worse than the current situation, where the country is nigh on ungovernable anyway.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,852
    Scott_P said:
    He's actually saying we can have our cake and eat it. That's not going to fly.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Scott_P said:

    isam said:

    No they said they would keep campaigning to Leave.


    Nigel Farage warns today he would fight for a second referendum on Britain in Europe if the remain campaign won by a narrow margin next month.

    The Ukip leader said a small defeat for his leave camp would be “unfinished business” and predicted pressure would grow for a re-run of the 23 June ballot.
    Yes of course. What else do you think campaigning to Leave means?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,039

    Pulpstar said:

    She doesn't need the DUP. She just needs them to abstain. The long term fall out here is whether May can sell this as national interest protecting the country from Corbyn which is nigh on impossible given the tide behind him or its seen as a grubby attempt to cling on to power at any cost. Whatever she finds for Irish sweeties, why wasn't it available for the youth, pensioners, the north, Scotland, Wales, police, the NHS etc etc etc.
    The only non destructive option for the Tories is to govern as minority and dare the rainbow to vote them down. They are too greedy and damn entitled though, aren't they?

    The DUP's know this too - the threat should the Danegeld not be paid is obviously that they join in with everyone else in the house, and vote against
    And the answer in the national interest should be so be it. We need strong and stable, not string for Ireland and wobbly. New election essential.
    THe Tories will be crucified in new elections, and May knows it.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,599

    Pulpstar said:

    She doesn't need the DUP. She just needs them to abstain. The long term fall out here is whether May can sell this as national interest protecting the country from Corbyn which is nigh on impossible given the tide behind him or its seen as a grubby attempt to cling on to power at any cost. Whatever she finds for Irish sweeties, why wasn't it available for the youth, pensioners, the north, Scotland, Wales, police, the NHS etc etc etc.
    The only non destructive option for the Tories is to govern as minority and dare the rainbow to vote them down. They are too greedy and damn entitled though, aren't they?

    The DUP's know this too - the threat should the Danegeld not be paid is obviously that they join in with everyone else in the house, and vote against
    And the answer in the national interest should be so be it. We need strong and stable, not string for Ireland and wobbly. New election essential.
    Be could for my wallet as I have a bet on a 2nd election this year.

    Not too keen on the risk that Corbyn will win this time.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    She doesn't need the DUP. She just needs them to abstain. The long term fall out here is whether May can sell this as national interest protecting the country from Corbyn which is nigh on impossible given the tide behind him or its seen as a grubby attempt to cling on to power at any cost. Whatever she finds for Irish sweeties, why wasn't it available for the youth, pensioners, the north, Scotland, Wales, police, the NHS etc etc etc.
    The only non destructive option for the Tories is to govern as minority and dare the rainbow to vote them down. They are too greedy and damn entitled though, aren't they?

    You can't have it both ways. If they were 'too greedy and damn entitled', they'd surely think they can do without the explicit support of the DUP.
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    scotslassscotslass Posts: 912
    The DUP have left the building.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,182
    What was it about the PM who just gave you your job back in the cabinet that made you such an admirer, Mr. Gove ...?

    “I’m a huge fan of Theresa May’s, and I have been throughout my political career, and I think that she was a great home secretary.”...
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,599
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    She doesn't need the DUP. She just needs them to abstain. The long term fall out here is whether May can sell this as national interest protecting the country from Corbyn which is nigh on impossible given the tide behind him or its seen as a grubby attempt to cling on to power at any cost. Whatever she finds for Irish sweeties, why wasn't it available for the youth, pensioners, the north, Scotland, Wales, police, the NHS etc etc etc.
    The only non destructive option for the Tories is to govern as minority and dare the rainbow to vote them down. They are too greedy and damn entitled though, aren't they?

    The DUP's know this too - the threat should the Danegeld not be paid is obviously that they join in with everyone else in the house, and vote against
    And the answer in the national interest should be so be it. We need strong and stable, not string for Ireland and wobbly. New election essential.
    THe Tories will be crucified in new elections, and May knows it.
    I don't know. As I've said before, I think many people voted back in their local Labour MP because they didn't think there was any chance in hell that Corbyn would be PM. I know members of my own extended family and some acquaintances I have spoken to have said this.

    Are people going to make the mistake again?

    I don't want May to take the risk mind.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,587
    calum said:
    Or, if they are clever, a deal that they need to "take back to their group", whereupon one or two additional "small points" will arise....
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739
    isam said:

    isam said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Not very often I agree with the EU but I do think the upshot of the hung parliament will be to make a no deal Brexit far more likely than if May had won 100 seats;

    http://news.sky.com/story/michel-barnier-warns-uk-it-faces-cliff-edge-no-deal-brexit-10913909

    A wake up call for some:

    However, in his interview, Mr Barnier sounded increasingly impatient with the UK, saying: "I don't know what hard Brexit or soft Brexit means. I read yesterday 'Open Brexit' too! Brexit is withdrawal from the EU - it's the UK's decision. We're implementing it."
    Well to be fair that's what Mrs May was saying before the election. All this "hard Brexit" and "soft Brexit" stuff was just brought up by Remainiacs to try and muddy the waters.

    We're leaving and we've got to prepare and get on with it instead of all this angst-ridden hard and soft Brexit stuff.
    Sorry no, I'm not having that, when people pointed out how difficult Brexit was going to be, we were called Remoaners.

    Sadly for those who are having to deal with Brexit on a daily basis, we've been proved right.

    Theresa triggered Article 50 nearly three months ago, then wasted 7 weeks on a general election, and we're even further away from any Brexit deal.
    No, Remoaners were people who wanted to re run the referendum or fiilibuster BRexit
    And what is wrong with that? If the result had been the other way Leavers would have done the same.
    It would have been impossible for Leavers to have done so even if they had wanted to. We were already in the EU, how could they filibuster our entry into it?
    There doesn't seem to be any filibustering going on or even the necessity to filibuster. Theresa and the three Brexiteers seem quite capable of wasting precious time e.g. by holding an unnecessary seven week long GE followed by days of reaching an agreement with the DUP.
  • Options
    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited June 2017

    On topic, genuinely do not understand the Tory remainer who voted Labour

    Labour's manifesto makes it crystal clear they are Leavers. WTF?

    May has become identified with Leave, therefore the opposing party gets identified with Remain. It doesn't seem to matter that May was pro-remain in the referendum, and Corbyn voted leave in the 70s then basically sat out the campaign this time.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,599
    IanB2 said:

    calum said:
    Or, if they are clever, a deal that they need to "take back to their group", whereupon one or two additional "small points" will arise....
    They are the best negotiators in the business by all accounts.

    Whereas, Theresa May...
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    The PM is off to Paris.

    That didn't end too well for a another former PM.....
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739
    IanB2 said:

    calum said:
    Or, if they are clever, a deal that they need to "take back to their group", whereupon one or two additional "small points" will arise....
    Master negotiators, apparently.
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    IanB2 said:

    calum said:
    Or, if they are clever, a deal that they need to "take back to their group", whereupon one or two additional "small points" will arise....
    The future is bright !
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    scotslass said:

    The DUP have left the building.

    With Elvis (Bus Pass Party) ?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    I, for one, welcome our new Presbyterian overlords:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/874612782146179076

    It was pre-destination, not free will that saved the elect.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited June 2017

    isam said:

    isam said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Not very often I agree with the EU but I do think the upshot of the hung parliament will be to make a no deal Brexit far more likely than if May had won 100 seats;

    http://news.sky.com/story/michel-barnier-warns-uk-it-faces-cliff-edge-no-deal-brexit-10913909

    A wake up call for some:

    However, in his interview, Mr Barnier sounded increasingly impatient with the UK, saying: "I don't know what hard Brexit or soft Brexit means. I read yesterday 'Open Brexit' too! Brexit is withdrawal from the EU - it's the UK's decision. We're implementing it."
    Well to be fair that's what Mrs May was saying before the election. All this "hard Brexit" and "soft Brexit" stuff was just brought up by Remainiacs to try and muddy the waters.

    We're leaving and we've got to prepare and get on with it instead of all this angst-ridden hard and soft Brexit stuff.
    Sorry no, I'm not having that, when people pointed out how difficult Brexit was going to be, we were called Remoaners.

    Sadly for those who are having to deal with Brexit on a daily basis, we've been proved right.

    Theresa triggered Article 50 nearly three months ago, then wasted 7 weeks on a general election, and we're even further away from any Brexit deal.
    No, Remoaners were people who wanted to re run the referendum or fiilibuster BRexit
    And what is wrong with that? If the result had been the other way Leavers would have done the same.
    It would have been impossible for Leavers to have done so even if they had wanted to. We were already in the EU, how could they filibuster our entry into it?
    There doesn't seem to be any filibustering going on or even the necessity to filibuster. Theresa and the three Brexiteers seem quite capable of wasting precious time e.g. by holding an unnecessary seven week long GE followed by days of reaching an agreement with the DUP.
    What did you mean by "Buying Opportunity" when the Lib Dems were 10/1 in Stoke on Trent?

    It is ok to be wrong you know :lol:
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,728
    BREAK No 10 source; talks with the DUP will resume this afternoon after business in the House of Commons.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,039

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    She doesn't need the DUP. She just needs them to abstain. The long term fall out here is whether May can sell this as national interest protecting the country from Corbyn which is nigh on impossible given the tide behind him or its seen as a grubby attempt to cling on to power at any cost. Whatever she finds for Irish sweeties, why wasn't it available for the youth, pensioners, the north, Scotland, Wales, police, the NHS etc etc etc.
    The only non destructive option for the Tories is to govern as minority and dare the rainbow to vote them down. They are too greedy and damn entitled though, aren't they?

    The DUP's know this too - the threat should the Danegeld not be paid is obviously that they join in with everyone else in the house, and vote against
    And the answer in the national interest should be so be it. We need strong and stable, not string for Ireland and wobbly. New election essential.
    THe Tories will be crucified in new elections, and May knows it.
    I don't know. As I've said before, I think many people voted back in their local Labour MP because they didn't think there was any chance in hell that Corbyn would be PM. I know members of my own extended family and some acquaintances I have spoken to have said this.

    Are people going to make the mistake again?

    I don't want May to take the risk mind.
    Atually I think you might be right - who knows how a new election would go. I'm staying out the betting as I'm moving house anyhow.
    This election just gone was stressful enough !
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,341
    Might we have another election in the coming weeks, assuming Jezza agrees? I can't see Theresa leading the Tories if so. Surely they'd have to risk Boris, providing a bit of mirth and light relief to counter Jezza's youth-led juggernaut.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    One thing is for sure (and I think important for betting purposes): if there is another election anytime soon, then this time the media will actually read and discuss the Labour manifesto.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    The PM is off to Paris.

    That didn't end too well for a another former PM.....

    Paris??? Why there?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,182

    JackW said:

    Not a statement you'll have seen me make terribly often on PB .... but

    John Major is correct. It is untenable for the Conservative minority government to claim that it is an honest broker in the NI peace process when it depends for its very existence on the DUP.

    I made that point on Sunday.

    Say what you like about Sir John Major, but if wasn't for him, there'd be no peace process.

    And it should be remembered the IRA tried to murder him but he didn't hold a grudge.
    John Major didn't say quite that on the radio this lunchtime.

    He seemed to say that it was quite understandable for the government to have to depend upon DUP votes for its survival - but that if it were going to do so, it would be essential for it to consult widely on Brexit in order to dispel the understandable assumption of undue influence on the DUP's part.

    Whether than is a tenable arrangement is another matter.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Ken Clark up shortly as Father of the House to oversee the coronation of John Bercow as Speaker
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,182
    JackW said:

    Ken Clark up shortly as Father of the House to oversee the coronation of John Bercow as Speaker

    Coronation ?
    Surely his head is too large for a crown ?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,599

    BREAK No 10 source; talks with the DUP will resume this afternoon after business in the House of Commons.

    They need to be sworn in, before they can prop up May's wreckage.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,031
    Good afternoon, everyone.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739
    JackW said:

    Theresa May, the Gerald Ratner of the Tory party?

    Discuss.

    Somewhat unfair on Ratner ....
    He said his jewellery was 'crap', she said her party was 'nasty'. Seems a fair comparison.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Jezza arrives on the front bench to a standing ovation. Theresa ... well .... she's there.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,587

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    She doesn't need the DUP. She just needs them to abstain. The long term fall out here is whether May can sell this as national interest protecting the country from Corbyn which is nigh on impossible given the tide behind him or its seen as a grubby attempt to cling on to power at any cost. Whatever she finds for Irish sweeties, why wasn't it available for the youth, pensioners, the north, Scotland, Wales, police, the NHS etc etc etc.
    The only non destructive option for the Tories is to govern as minority and dare the rainbow to vote them down. They are too greedy and damn entitled though, aren't they?

    The DUP's know this too - the threat should the Danegeld not be paid is obviously that they join in with everyone else in the house, and vote against
    And the answer in the national interest should be so be it. We need strong and stable, not string for Ireland and wobbly. New election essential.
    THe Tories will be crucified in new elections, and May knows it.
    I don't know. As I've said before, I think many people voted back in their local Labour MP because they didn't think there was any chance in hell that Corbyn would be PM. I know members of my own extended family and some acquaintances I have spoken to have said this.

    Are people going to make the mistake again?

    I don't want May to take the risk mind.
    What USPs do the Tories have left?

    Their only option would be to make GE2 about Brexit and campaign for Leave.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,599
    calum said:
    Translation: There's a stack more pork is this old barrel and we intend to dig deep.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,599
    JackW said:

    Jezza arrives on the front bench to a standing ovation. Theresa ... well .... she's there.

    You would think he had won.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    JackW said:

    Jezza arrives on the front bench to a standing ovation. Theresa ... well .... she's there.

    That's a standing ovation from the MPs who had no confidence in him, right?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,599

    Might we have another election in the coming weeks, assuming Jezza agrees? I can't see Theresa leading the Tories if so. Surely they'd have to risk Boris, providing a bit of mirth and light relief to counter Jezza's youth-led juggernaut.

    Honestly I can't see any alternative if they are to face Jezza within weeks.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,039

    JackW said:

    Jezza arrives on the front bench to a standing ovation. Theresa ... well .... she's there.

    You would think he had won.
    He has pretty much/
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    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    How is the bigot beanfeast going?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    isam said:

    No they said they would keep campaigning to Leave.


    Nigel Farage warns today he would fight for a second referendum on Britain in Europe if the remain campaign won by a narrow margin next month.

    The Ukip leader said a small defeat for his leave camp would be “unfinished business” and predicted pressure would grow for a re-run of the 23 June ballot.
    The link between Farage and any sort of campaign which won the referendum has been disproved I thought ?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,039
    edited June 2017

    JackW said:

    Jezza arrives on the front bench to a standing ovation. Theresa ... well .... she's there.

    That's a standing ovation from the MPs who had no confidence in him, right?
    They do now.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,182

    calum said:
    Translation: There's a stack more pork is this old barrel and we intend to dig deep.
    Given the evidence of how far May was prepared to mortgage our future energy prices to the Chinese to ensure their continued investment in old style nuclear plants, I don't expect we'll get away cheaply on this either.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,599

    JackW said:

    Jezza arrives on the front bench to a standing ovation. Theresa ... well .... she's there.

    That's a standing ovation from the MPs who had no confidence in him, right?
    The People have spoken, the bastards.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,039
    Nigelb said:

    calum said:
    Translation: There's a stack more pork is this old barrel and we intend to dig deep.
    Given the evidence of how far May was prepared to mortgage our future energy prices to the Chinese to ensure their continued investment in old style nuclear plants, I don't expect we'll get away cheaply on this either.
    Ugh I forgot about that particular turd.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    Jezza arrives on the front bench to a standing ovation. Theresa ... well .... she's there.

    You would think he had won.
    Jezza lost less worst than expected. Theresa lost far worst than expected ... :smile:

    JackW said:

    Jezza arrives on the front bench to a standing ovation. Theresa ... well .... she's there.

    That's a standing ovation from the MPs who had no confidence in him, right?
    Precisely .... :sunglasses:
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046

    How is the bigot beanfeast going?

    DUP barrels not yet filled !
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    isam said:

    isam said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Not very often I agree with the EU but I do think the upshot of the hung parliament will be to make a no deal Brexit far more likely than if May had won 100 seats;

    http://news.sky.com/story/michel-barnier-warns-uk-it-faces-cliff-edge-no-deal-brexit-10913909

    A wake up call for some:

    However, in his interview, Mr Barnier sounded increasingly impatient with the UK, saying: "I don't know what hard Brexit or soft Brexit means. I read yesterday 'Open Brexit' too! Brexit is withdrawal from the EU - it's the UK's decision. We're implementing it."
    Well to be fair that's what Mrs May was saying before the election. All this "hard Brexit" and "soft Brexit" stuff was just brought up by Remainiacs to try and muddy the waters.

    We're leaving and we've got to prepare and get on with it instead of all this angst-ridden hard and soft Brexit stuff.
    Sorry no, I'm not having that, when people pointed out how difficult Brexit was going to be, we were called Remoaners.

    Sadly for those who are having to deal with Brexit on a daily basis, we've been proved right.

    Theresa triggered Article 50 nearly three months ago, then wasted 7 weeks on a general election, and we're even further away from any Brexit deal.
    No, Remoaners were people who wanted to re run the referendum or fiilibuster BRexit
    I don't recall such definitional niceties. I have never wanted to rerun the referendum or filibuster Brexit and have frequently been called a Remoaner.
    Maybe calling everyone who voted Leave a c*nt could be a third category!
    I don't think I've ever exactly said that. Anyway, you'll be pleased to know that I'm extending my range.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited June 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    JackW said:

    Jezza arrives on the front bench to a standing ovation. Theresa ... well .... she's there.

    That's a standing ovation from the MPs who had no confidence in him, right?
    They do now.
    If so they are fools. The problems with Jezza haven't gone away just because Mrs May somehow contrived to screw up so spectacularly.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    How is the bigot beanfeast going?

    Not due for 3 months.

    "The 149th annual TUC Congress 2017 will take place at The Brighton Centre during 10-13 September"
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,599
    So Heathrow's new runway will be built.

    ...near Belfast.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,459

    Might we have another election in the coming weeks, assuming Jezza agrees? I can't see Theresa leading the Tories if so. Surely they'd have to risk Boris, providing a bit of mirth and light relief to counter Jezza's youth-led juggernaut.

    Honestly I can't see any alternative if they are to face Jezza within weeks.
    As a matter of interest. We only have a few weeks to Parliament rising until October. How could an election take place before the Autumn at the earliest
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Arlene Foster‏Verified account @DUPleader 12m12 minutes ago

    Discussions are going well with the government and we hope soon to be able to bring this work to a successful conclusion.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,459
    TGOHF said:

    Arlene Foster‏Verified account @DUPleader 12m12 minutes ago

    Discussions are going well with the government and we hope soon to be able to bring this work to a successful conclusion.

    Notice the pound is rising
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Arlene Foster‏Verified account @DUPleader 12m12 minutes ago

    Discussions are going well with the government and we hope soon to be able to bring this work to a successful conclusion.

    Notice the pound is rising
    Chances of another 2017 election plunging.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,039
    TGOHF said:

    Arlene Foster‏Verified account @DUPleader 12m12 minutes ago

    Discussions are going well with the government and we hope soon to be able to bring this work to a successful conclusion.

    Just one more turn of the wheel.
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    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    calum said:

    How is the bigot beanfeast going?

    DUP barrels not yet filled !
    May has been told she needs to find another £100bn worth of reactionary pork to line the stomachs of the knuckle draggers.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,987
    Looks like we voted to give £350 million extra a week to parts of Northern Ireland.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,953

    This!!!!!!

    @faisalislam: 730 days to negotiate Brexit, ambitious for exit deal alone. Government tho wanted entire Free Trade Deal. 77 days gone with no negotiation.

    Nothing substantive was going to be done until after the German election anyway.

    However, by October we'd better have our house in order!
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    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    Sure Falconer could be used as some sort of makeweight in the deal? We get the Good Lord, you get an extra £50m for a sectarian bridge, so no-one need enter catholic areas.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,728
    On another general election this autumn:

    Support: 43%
    Oppose: 38%

    (via @YouGov / 09 - 10 Jun)
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    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Arlene Foster‏Verified account @DUPleader 12m12 minutes ago

    Discussions are going well with the government and we hope soon to be able to bring this work to a successful conclusion.

    Notice the pound is rising
    Chances of another 2017 election plunging.

    As a Rangers supporter presumably you are delighted to see your spiritual brothers in government?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,039
    edited June 2017

    Looks like we voted to give £350 million extra a week to parts of Northern Ireland.

    It'll be dressed up as a deprivation formula replacing cash lost by poorer areas on EU exit. As certain on this as my 16-1 Labour Hallam tip. Note that Cornwall is looking dicey for the Tories too, and with London romping home for Labour there is not that much of a political price to pay.
    Honestly it totally suits everyone on the blue benches.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Looks like we voted to give £350 million extra a week to parts of Northern Ireland.

    As it's one of the poorest regions you socialists - and EU philes in particular should be in favour of this redistribution.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,953
    edited June 2017
    Scott_P said:
    Except Brexit by committee risks the whole thing becoming bogged down with nobody having a clear idea what they want and no plan for the aftermath.

    The whole could just end up in one big bust up...

    And then, time runs out and we're out!!!!
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    Fair play to the DUP - it's to be expected that a Northern Irish party will be well schooled in the art of negotiations. Hard negotiating and brinkmanship is the name of the game. Perhaps the tories should have actually offered a full coalition - put Arlene Foster as Brexit Secretary, and watch as European porc comes flying our way.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,311
    GIN1138 said:

    Nothing substantive was going to be done until after the German election anyway.

    Do people still think May will sit down with Merkel and sort the whole thing out in an afternoon?
This discussion has been closed.