politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Theresa May was right, this election should be about Brexit
Comments
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Kudos to you, Sir, for being there....Peter_the_Punter said:
I was in Jaywick during the Clacton by-election and was astonished at how few immigrants there appeared to be there, and how much hostility there was to immigration.MarqueeMark said:
How many people did you try and win over in Jaywick?AlastairMeeks said:
In your case, smirk while xenophobic lies were told.MarqueeMark said:
Or...Brexit was secured by hectoring, smug, superior arses, thinking that the argument for the EU was so fucking obvious that it made itself - but we'll gratuitously insult the intellects of the voters by the by.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sorry that it upsets you so much to be reminded that Brexit was secured through xenophobic lies, but it's the essential reason why Brexit is the enduring disaster of the age for the country.JonnyJimmy said:
It lacks the elegance of your method of ensuring Brexit by telling most Brits they're racist scum.AlastairMeeks said:I've been predicting for some time that immigration would fall by using the simple method of being so unpleasant to foreigners that they would get the message. Clearly that's working.
These hand-wringers could have
a) formulated the reasons why staying in the EU was full off benefits, even for the dumbest fucks in society
b) made that case to them in measured terms
c) got out to the hell-holes where these Leave voters lived and talked them over, on the doorsteps.
NOW they bitch and moan. Twelve months ago was the time to get engaged, if they truly thought it was the defining moment of our age.
What did you do in the Great Referendum War, daddy?0 -
Clarified - bomb disposal army teamdyedwoolie said:Army responding to a call at college in Trafford. Wtf?!
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Internment? Why? Parliament must suspend the Human rights act.Peter_the_Punter said:
You should have listened to Lord Blair and Frank Gardner on the Today programme this morning. They knocked that one straight on the head.nunu said:you know I have been thinking internment for the people who fight with ISIS and return here is necessary. As reluctant as I used to be, we are just understanding the scale of the problem. Ofcourse if possible we should stip them of citizenship aswell. Those Daily Mail comments are not even close to the maddest ones I've seen.
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If you're going that route then I'd point out Alexander wasn't Greek...Carolus_Rex said:
Curiously, the Greeks themselves were by no means unanimous on that one. Alexander's adoption of Persian dress and customs is a case in point.MonikerDiCanio said:
Xenophobic is the lazy slur of the half-educated. Yes, the ancient Greeks were better than the barbarians. Do you disagree ?AlastairMeeks said:
In your case, smirk while xenophobic lies were told.MarqueeMark said:
Or...Brexit was secured by hectoring, smug, superior arses, thinking that the argument for the EU was so fucking obvious that it made itself - but we'll gratuitously insult the intellects of the voters by the by.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sorry that it upsets you so much to be reminded that Brexit was secured through xenophobic lies, but it's the essential reason why Brexit is the enduring disaster of the age for the country.JonnyJimmy said:
It lacks the elegance of your method of ensuring Brexit by telling most Brits they're racist scum.AlastairMeeks said:I've been predicting for some time that immigration would fall by using the simple method of being so unpleasant to foreigners that they would get the message. Clearly that's working.
These hand-wringers could have
a) formulated the reasons why staying in the EU was full off benefits, even for the dumbest fucks in society
b) made that case to them in measured terms
c) got out to the hell-holes where these Leave voters lived and talked them over, on the doorsteps.
NOW they bitch and moan. Twelve months ago was the time to get engaged, if they truly thought it was the defining moment of our age.
What did you do in the Great Referendum War, daddy?0 -
Gordon Brown acquired a beard and no one accused him of radicalisation.JackW said:
Any update on the length of Nick Palmer's party leaders beard? Long enough to shave 50 MP's off their pre-election total ?bobajobPB said:Any update on the length of Sean's dry cleaner's beard? Long enough to shop him to the authorities yet?
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Neither of the big parties represents a coalition appropriate to the emerging divides in politics, now that class has faded as a driver of political views. The Tories have managed to defer their day of reckoning, aided by Brexit and at least some attempts to adapt. Labour's reckoning approaches.nunu said:
Wow. It's suprising how similar the tory and labour response is!SouthamObserver said:0 -
Super, Mr. Wheel, absolutely super post. PB pedantry at its best. Well done, Sir.brokenwheel said:
If you're going that route then I'd point out Alexander wasn't Greek...Carolus_Rex said:
Curiously, the Greeks themselves were by no means unanimous on that one. Alexander's adoption of Persian dress and customs is a case in point.MonikerDiCanio said:
Xenophobic is the lazy slur of the half-educated. Yes, the ancient Greeks were better than the barbarians. Do you disagree ?AlastairMeeks said:
In your case, smirk while xenophobic lies were told.MarqueeMark said:
Or...Brexit was secured by hectoring, smug, superior arses, thinking that the argument for the EU was so fucking obvious that it made itself - but we'll gratuitously insult the intellects of the voters by the by.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sorry that it upsets you so much to be reminded that Brexit was secured through xenophobic lies, but it's the essential reason why Brexit is the enduring disaster of the age for the country.JonnyJimmy said:
It lacks the elegance of your method of ensuring Brexit by telling most Brits they're racist scum.AlastairMeeks said:I've been predicting for some time that immigration would fall by using the simple method of being so unpleasant to foreigners that they would get the message. Clearly that's working.
These hand-wringers could have
a) formulated the reasons why staying in the EU was full off benefits, even for the dumbest fucks in society
b) made that case to them in measured terms
c) got out to the hell-holes where these Leave voters lived and talked them over, on the doorsteps.
NOW they bitch and moan. Twelve months ago was the time to get engaged, if they truly thought it was the defining moment of our age.
What did you do in the Great Referendum War, daddy?0 -
He said 'have' not 'had'.David_Evershed said:
Although we'd have stayed in if it hadn't been for Boris's ambition and Gove's idiocy.0 -
Contentious.... All I can say is, don't tell a modern Greek that, they tend to get a bit upset!brokenwheel said:
If you're going that route then I'd point out Alexander wasn't Greek...Carolus_Rex said:
Curiously, the Greeks themselves were by no means unanimous on that one. Alexander's adoption of Persian dress and customs is a case in point.MonikerDiCanio said:
Xenophobic is the lazy slur of the half-educated. Yes, the ancient Greeks were better than the barbarians. Do you disagree ?AlastairMeeks said:
In your case, smirk while xenophobic lies were told.MarqueeMark said:
Or...Brexit was secured by hectoring, smug, superior arses, thinking that the argument for the EU was so fucking obvious that it made itself - but we'll gratuitously insult the intellects of the voters by the by.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sorry that it upsets you so much to be reminded that Brexit was secured through xenophobic lies, but it's the essential reason why Brexit is the enduring disaster of the age for the country.JonnyJimmy said:
It lacks the elegance of your method of ensuring Brexit by telling most Brits they're racist scum.AlastairMeeks said:I've been predicting for some time that immigration would fall by using the simple method of being so unpleasant to foreigners that they would get the message. Clearly that's working.
These hand-wringers could have
a) formulated the reasons why staying in the EU was full off benefits, even for the dumbest fucks in society
b) made that case to them in measured terms
c) got out to the hell-holes where these Leave voters lived and talked them over, on the doorsteps.
NOW they bitch and moan. Twelve months ago was the time to get engaged, if they truly thought it was the defining moment of our age.
What did you do in the Great Referendum War, daddy?0 -
Could argue that a regulated weed market with limits on THC content might be more effective than prohibition.SeanT said:
That's actually a perfectly valid argument. A lot of these jihadis are doped up to the eyeballs on skunk, or worse. It makes them paranoid and disinhibited at the same time, a bad mix. It also catalyses and accentuates any underlying mental issues.old_labour said:0 -
We are not yet out of the EU. UKIP influence still persists.logical_song said:
He said 'have' not 'had'.David_Evershed said:
Although we'd have stayed in if it hadn't been for Boris's ambition and Gove's idiocy.0 -
Isn't "Assassin" a corruption of "Hashishim" because the original Assassins were, as you put it, doped up to the eyeballs?SeanT said:
That's actually a perfectly valid argument. A lot of these jihadis are doped up to the eyeballs on skunk, or worse. It makes them paranoid and disinhibited at the same time, a bad mix. It also catalyses and accentuates any underlying mental issues.old_labour said:0 -
#timefortridentPeter_the_Punter said:
Likewise July 7.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
None of this is exactly new with the US.DecrepitJohnL said:
Who precisely is shocked at any of this information about identity and bombs, and did these maiden aunts think the forensic teams in the white coveralls shown on or in British media were painters and decorators?RobD said:Pretty shocking list of leaks over on Guido. Hopefully heads will roll for this
https://order-order.com/2017/05/25/8-us-intelligence-leaks-that-infuriated-british-government/
During the Falklands, info was far more forthcoming from the US than it was from the MOD iirc.
Lord Blair was on the Today programme this morning and said it was exactly the same back then. The UK police and security provided their US counterparts with sensitive information on the understanding that it would be handled sensitively, but it was leaked all over the media. The UK complained, as it has done this time, but nothing changed.0 -
Amsterdam and California being renowned for hoardes of pot-smoking Islamic terrorists compared to those being supplied by criminals here.SeanT said:
That's actually a perfectly valid argument. A lot of these jihadis are doped up to the eyeballs on skunk, or worse. It makes them paranoid and disinhibited at the same time, a bad mix. It also catalyses and accentuates any underlying mental issues.old_labour said:0 -
That was then. The pertinent question is how much power UKIP has (or potentially has) now that their driving force is gone and now that by far their most effective leader has retired.David_Evershed said:0 -
Been a while since I was called a racist for voting leave. sheesh
Pointless re-re-re-running this argument surely?
I voted to leave an undemocratic, unaccountable more-than-embryonic political union. I did this in the full knowledge that it would involve short term economic pain (although not nearly as much as the ridiculously hyperbolic Remain campaign claimed, and in the long run economic gain is very much in our own hands)
I did not do it because I hate foreigners.
Love Europe, not the EU. No a hard concept. imagine a football fan who may - shock, horror, despite their love of the beautiful game, not have a high opinion of FIFA. It was a bit like that.
Nothing that has happened since has made me regret my decision, even though I admit my pencil did hover uncertainly for a second over the box in the voting booth. I knew it was a big decision.
Get over yourselves Remainers! Sanctimonious, superior and bitter is not a good look.
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Apparently Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit!!TOPPING said:
Thank goodness we have people like you who aren't quite so ghastly.bigjohnowls said:
I did giggle though as the wife just asked me what i was laughing at.0 -
They put it better than I ever could.nunu said:
Internment? Why? Parliament must suspend the Human rights act.Peter_the_Punter said:
You should have listened to Lord Blair and Frank Gardner on the Today programme this morning. They knocked that one straight on the head.nunu said:you know I have been thinking internment for the people who fight with ISIS and return here is necessary. As reluctant as I used to be, we are just understanding the scale of the problem. Ofcourse if possible we should stip them of citizenship aswell. Those Daily Mail comments are not even close to the maddest ones I've seen.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08qxfr8#play
It's about 2hours 10mins in.
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12 years without an attack given what has happened in the world could be argued as a success, not that this is any comfort to Manchester.MonikerDiCanio said:
Fair enough, she was Home Secretary for six years and is currently the default PM.Scott_P said:@bbclaurak: UKIP putting attack on May at centre of manifesto launch - all but blaming her for Manchester because of policy during time at Home Office
Feels like a cheap shot from UKIP0 -
Looks like UKIP's manifesto launch has ballsed up big time.
Shame.0 -
Reading cannot make up for not thinking. These people are getting their drugs here, where it is already illegal.SeanT said:
Just do some bloody reading. This took me 0.002 seconds of Googling. And relates to an attack last Monday. In Manchester. You may have heard about it.IanB2 said:
Amsterdam and California being renowned for hoardes of pot-smoking Islamic terrorists compared to those being supplied by criminals here.SeanT said:
That's actually a perfectly valid argument. A lot of these jihadis are doped up to the eyeballs on skunk, or worse. It makes them paranoid and disinhibited at the same time, a bad mix. It also catalyses and accentuates any underlying mental issues.old_labour said:
"Salman Abedi’s journey from cannabis-smoking university dropout to Isis suicide bomber is being gradually pieced together by investigators"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salman-abedi-manchester-attacker-isis-terrorist-europe-islamist-suicide-bomber-arena-explosion-a7753541.html
You of all people should know that our current regime does not stop people getting hold of drugs, if they want them.0 -
There are many reasons that Remain lost. The negative nature of their campaign and the refusal of the Labour leadership to engage are two others.logical_song said:
He said 'have' not 'had'.David_Evershed said:
Although we'd have stayed in if it hadn't been for Boris's ambition and Gove's idiocy.
But had Leave lost, the issue would not have gone away unless Remain could turn round hearts as well as heads. Leave would have latched on to 'lies' told either in scaremongering or - worse - reassurance, and used them as the basis of a narrative that the referendum was 'stolen' from them. The reason the false assurances would have been worse for Remain is because they could be proved demonstrably wrong.
That, however, is an alternate history that we can speculate about for amusement but which has no relevance to today's politics.0 -
Everybody has forgotten that they took down a guy very publicly in the middle of London when it seems he was just about to carry out an attack. At the time everybody said aren't our security services great.JonCisBack said:
12 years without an attack given what has happened in the world could be argued as a success, not that this is any comfort to Manchester.MonikerDiCanio said:
Fair enough, she was Home Secretary for six years and is currently the default PM.Scott_P said:@bbclaurak: UKIP putting attack on May at centre of manifesto launch - all but blaming her for Manchester because of policy during time at Home Office
Feels like a cheap shot from UKIP
If they were only having to follow a couple of handful of people around, but instead it is 1000s.0 -
Mr CisBack,
A commendable effort, but it's a waste of time talking to the bigoted and rapidly diminishing Remainer fanatics. They are few, but noisy, and best ignored.0 -
Yes, once the referendum was called there were only two only good outcomes for democracy: a win for Leave, or a very emphatic win for Remain. A narrow win for Remain would have been the worst possible result.david_herdson said:But had Leave lost, the issue would not have gone away unless Remain could turn round hearts as well as heads. Leave would have latched on to 'lies' told either in scaremongering or - worse - reassurance, and used them as the basis of a narrative that the referendum was 'stolen' from them. The reason the false assurances would have been worse for Remain is because they could be proved demonstrably wrong.
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We keep being told it is only a very small minority of Muslims trying to kill us. How hard can it be to track them?FrancisUrquhart said:
Everybody has forgotten that they took down a guy very publicly in the middle of London when it seems he was just about to carry out an attack. At the time everybody said aren't our security services great.JonCisBack said:
12 years without an attack given what has happened in the world could be argued as a success, not that this is any comfort to Manchester.MonikerDiCanio said:
Fair enough, she was Home Secretary for six years and is currently the default PM.Scott_P said:@bbclaurak: UKIP putting attack on May at centre of manifesto launch - all but blaming her for Manchester because of policy during time at Home Office
Feels like a cheap shot from UKIP
If they were only having to follow a couple of handful of people around, but instead it is 1000s.0 -
Not really. I was with Shadsy, doing research. But it was illuminating in more respects than mere betting.MarqueeMark said:
Kudos to you, Sir, for being there....Peter_the_Punter said:
I was in Jaywick during the Clacton by-election and was astonished at how few immigrants there appeared to be there, and how much hostility there was to immigration.MarqueeMark said:
How many people did you try and win over in Jaywick?AlastairMeeks said:
In your case, smirk while xenophobic lies were told.MarqueeMark said:
Or...Brexit was secured by hectoring, smug, superior arses, thinking that the argument for the EU was so fucking obvious that it made itself - but we'll gratuitously insult the intellects of the voters by the by.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sorry that it upsets you so much to be reminded that Brexit was secured through xenophobic lies, but it's the essential reason why Brexit is the enduring disaster of the age for the country.JonnyJimmy said:
It lacks the elegance of your method of ensuring Brexit by telling most Brits they're racist scum.AlastairMeeks said:I've been predicting for some time that immigration would fall by using the simple method of being so unpleasant to foreigners that they would get the message. Clearly that's working.
These hand-wringers could have
a) formulated the reasons why staying in the EU was full off benefits, even for the dumbest fucks in society
b) made that case to them in measured terms
c) got out to the hell-holes where these Leave voters lived and talked them over, on the doorsteps.
NOW they bitch and moan. Twelve months ago was the time to get engaged, if they truly thought it was the defining moment of our age.
What did you do in the Great Referendum War, daddy?0 -
The worst possible policy is unofficial toleration i.e. what we have now. If the police won't enforce this law, why should you respect others? Same with blanket 20mph speed limits.SeanT said:
It's illegal in name only. I smell weed regularly as I walk around Camden and Regent's Park. People now smoke it pretty openly. In public spaces.IanB2 said:
Reading cannot make up for not thinking. These people are getting their drugs here, where it is already illegal.SeanT said:
Just do some bloody reading. This took me 0.002 seconds of Googling. And relates to an attack last Monday. In Manchester. You may have heard about it.IanB2 said:
Amsterdam and California being renowned for hoardes of pot-smoking Islamic terrorists compared to those being supplied by criminals here.SeanT said:
That's actually a perfectly valid argument. A lot of these jihadis are doped up to the eyeballs on skunk, or worse. It makes them paranoid and disinhibited at the same time, a bad mix. It also catalyses and accentuates any underlying mental issues.old_labour said:
"Salman Abedi’s journey from cannabis-smoking university dropout to Isis suicide bomber is being gradually pieced together by investigators"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salman-abedi-manchester-attacker-isis-terrorist-europe-islamist-suicide-bomber-arena-explosion-a7753541.html
You of all people should know that our current regime does not stop people getting hold of drugs, if they want them.
Dealing is a little more clandestine, but walk thirty yards through Camden market and several dealers will make you an offer.
As I said downthread Prohibition is not necessarily the answer. Indeed full legalisation might be the answer, as has been suggested, so we can stamp out these mad brands of skunk with stupid THC levels.
What is daft is denying a link between drugs, esp cannabis, and terror. There is a link, often.
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That's a good point. Thousands doesn't sound like a very small minority.David_Evershed said:
We keep being told it is only a very small minority of Muslims trying to kill us. How hard can it be to track them?FrancisUrquhart said:
Everybody has forgotten that they took down a guy very publicly in the middle of London when it seems he was just about to carry out an attack. At the time everybody said aren't our security services great.JonCisBack said:
12 years without an attack given what has happened in the world could be argued as a success, not that this is any comfort to Manchester.MonikerDiCanio said:
Fair enough, she was Home Secretary for six years and is currently the default PM.Scott_P said:@bbclaurak: UKIP putting attack on May at centre of manifesto launch - all but blaming her for Manchester because of policy during time at Home Office
Feels like a cheap shot from UKIP
If they were only having to follow a couple of handful of people around, but instead it is 1000s.0 -
Here is a question....the media have been reporting lots of stories of synthetic cannabis alternative, spice, now causing huge amount of problems both in the streets and prisons.
If we legalize cannabis, it will be highly taxed and highly regulated. Spice is very very cheap, way stronger and despite being made illegal is easily available and being chosen instead of cannabis by many people.
How do we address this issue?
I believe in places like Colorado, despite being able to legally buy it from very nice shops, illegal cannabis dealing hasn't gone away because it is just far cheaper than the highly taxed shops. All the nice middle class people go to the shops, but lots of people can't afford to do so.0 -
Tezza smacking Trump on the end of the nose with a rolled up copy of the Telegraph0
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In what way?Pulpstar said:Looks like UKIP's manifesto launch has ballsed up big time.
Shame.
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Plus it would raise a whole bunch of money by VAT and tax.SeanT said:
It's illegal in name only. I smell weed regularly as I walk around Camden and Regent's Park. People now smoke it pretty openly. In public spaces.IanB2 said:
Reading cannot make up for not thinking. These people are getting their drugs here, where it is already illegal.SeanT said:
Just do some bloody reading. This took me 0.002 seconds of Googling. And relates to an attack last Monday. In Manchester. You may have heard about it.IanB2 said:
Amsterdam and California being renowned for hoardes of pot-smoking Islamic terrorists compared to those being supplied by criminals here.SeanT said:
That's actually a perfectly valid argument. A lot of these jihadis are doped up to the eyeballs on skunk, or worse. It makes them paranoid and disinhibited at the same time, a bad mix. It also catalyses and accentuates any underlying mental issues.old_labour said:
"Salman Abedi’s journey from cannabis-smoking university dropout to Isis suicide bomber is being gradually pieced together by investigators"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salman-abedi-manchester-attacker-isis-terrorist-europe-islamist-suicide-bomber-arena-explosion-a7753541.html
You of all people should know that our current regime does not stop people getting hold of drugs, if they want them.
Dealing is a little more clandestine, but walk thirty yards through Camden market and several dealers will make you an offer.
As I said downthread Prohibition is not necessarily the answer. Indeed full legalisation might be the answer, as has been suggested, so we can stamp out these mad brands of skunk with stupid THC levels.
What is daft is denying a link between drugs, esp cannabis, and terror. There is a link, often.
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They tried to lynch Michael crickDavid_Evershed said:0 -
Mr Evershed,
I assume you're being sarcastic. I suspect even a few hundred would overwhelm the security resources, and internment would not be acceptable. Apart from anything else, there's always the risk of grudge accusations.0 -
And then there was Gildas..SeanT said:
5! I quite forgot.MonikerDiCanio said:0 -
If the election is about Brexit, what's the difference between Labour and the Tories on Brexit again? The Tories already had a mandate to form the government until 2020, a year after Brexit negotiations are expected to have ended.
Finance capital and big business generally perceieve Brexit as an enormous opportunity, and living standards for the majority are likely to accelerate their fall over the next 2-3 years. It's possible a major war will have started by then too. An election in 2020 would have been a major inconvenience and even a risk to the Tory party.
Certainly no intellectually honest person believes Theresa May's stated reasons for calling the election are true.
What people gives a government a "mandate" to "do as it sees fit"?
In effect, @Alastair, you are saying this election is a plebiscite.
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Eh? It took you twelve minutes to go from making a "valid argument" post opposing looser drug laws to recognising the current laws aren't working and after another six minutes you're saying full legalisation might be the answer?SeanT said:
It's illegal in name only. I smell weed regularly as I walk around Camden and Regent's Park. People now smoke it pretty openly. In public spaces.IanB2 said:
Reading cannot make up for not thinking. These people are getting their drugs here, where it is already illegal.SeanT said:
Just do some bloody reading. This took me 0.002 seconds of Googling. And relates to an attack last Monday. In Manchester. You may have heard about it.IanB2 said:
Amsterdam and California being renowned for hoardes of pot-smoking Islamic terrorists compared to those being supplied by criminals here.SeanT said:
That's actually a perfectly valid argument. A lot of these jihadis are doped up to the eyeballs on skunk, or worse. It makes them paranoid and disinhibited at the same time, a bad mix. It also catalyses and accentuates any underlying mental issues.old_labour said:
"Salman Abedi’s journey from cannabis-smoking university dropout to Isis suicide bomber is being gradually pieced together by investigators"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salman-abedi-manchester-attacker-isis-terrorist-europe-islamist-suicide-bomber-arena-explosion-a7753541.html
You of all people should know that our current regime does not stop people getting hold of drugs, if they want them.
Dealing is a little more clandestine, but walk thirty yards through Camden market and several dealers will make you an offer.
As I said downthread Prohibition is not necessarily the answer. Indeed full legalisation might be the answer, as has been suggested, so we can stamp out these mad brands of skunk with stupid THC levels.
What is daft is denying a link between drugs, esp cannabis, and terror. There is a link, often.
You make the 'moving target' defence into an art form.0 -
I'd agree with all of that.SeanT said:
It's illegal in name only. I smell weed regularly as I walk around Camden and Regent's Park. People now smoke it pretty openly. In public spaces.IanB2 said:
Reading cannot make up for not thinking. These people are getting their drugs here, where it is already illegal.SeanT said:
Just do some bloody reading. This took me 0.002 seconds of Googling. And relates to an attack last Monday. In Manchester. You may have heard about it.IanB2 said:
Amsterdam and California being renowned for hoardes of pot-smoking Islamic terrorists compared to those being supplied by criminals here.SeanT said:
That's actually a perfectly valid argument. A lot of these jihadis are doped up to the eyeballs on skunk, or worse. It makes them paranoid and disinhibited at the same time, a bad mix. It also catalyses and accentuates any underlying mental issues.old_labour said:
"Salman Abedi’s journey from cannabis-smoking university dropout to Isis suicide bomber is being gradually pieced together by investigators"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salman-abedi-manchester-attacker-isis-terrorist-europe-islamist-suicide-bomber-arena-explosion-a7753541.html
You of all people should know that our current regime does not stop people getting hold of drugs, if they want them.
Dealing is a little more clandestine, but walk thirty yards through Camden market and several dealers will make you an offer.
As I said downthread Prohibition is not necessarily the answer. Indeed full legalisation might be the answer, as has been suggested, so we can stamp out these mad brands of skunk with stupid THC levels.
What is daft is denying a link between drugs, esp cannabis, and terror. There is a link, often.
Legalise, regulate, educate, tax.
It wouldn't entirely kill the illegal drugs market any more than ending prohibition killed off moonshine but it'd make a pretty big dent in not only that but other organised and associated criminal activity - plus the usual benefits of having a properly regulated market in dangerous goods.0 -
Is she even going to make it to the G7?dyedwoolie said:Tezza smacking Trump on the end of the nose with a rolled up copy of the Telegraph
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And in many places in Britain, it is the guys responsible for "security" at crowded events who sell people the drugs.IanB2 said:These people are getting their drugs here, where it is already illegal.
You of all people should know that our current regime does not stop people getting hold of drugs, if they want them.
Perhaps when people have finished their one minute's silence and are tired with imagining they are in MI5 watching suspects, they could realise that security at events such as pop concerts in arenas should be improved.
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Well, judging by your hysterical alcohol-fuelled BNP rantings after every terrorist attack, it sounds like you're hardly happy with the state of this country either. Perhaps you may decide to emigrate to your own spiritual homeland, the extremely stable and terror-free country that is Thailand, and spend the autumn of your life as a sad lonely old man pretending that you enjoy shagging prostitutes. To be honest I hope Alistair stays and you go. It beats me how you are allowed to keep posting here when every second post of yours is ordering someone you don't agree with to leave the site or emigrate.SeanT said:
There must come a point when the xenophobic lies of Brexit Britain, the racist, europhobic atmosphere of division and rancour, will finally force you to emigrate to your spiritual homeland, Viktor Orban's quasi-Fascist Hungary.AlastairMeeks said:
Why Brexit is a disaster is because far too many people were comfortable with using xenophobic lies in pursuit of their marginal obsession. As a result, the country has become unhappier, more divided and more racist and will continue down that path until those who did so accept that race-baiting in pursuit of votes is a recipe for disaster, the more so if the pursuit is successful.MarqueeMark said:
How many people did you try and win over in Jaywick?AlastairMeeks said:
In your case, smirk while xenophobic lies were told.MarqueeMark said:
Or..AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sorry that it upsets you so much to be reminded that Brexit was secured through xenophobic lies, but it's the essential reason why Brexit is the enduring disaster of the age for the country.JonnyJimmy said:
It lacks the elegance of your method of ensuring Brexit by telling most Brits they're racist scum.AlastairMeeks said:I've been predicting for some time that immigration would fall by using the simple method of being so unpleasant to foreigners that they would get the message. Clearly that's working.
What did you do in the Great Referendum War, daddy?
There really isn't much that the Remain campaign could do to stop the Leave campaign stooping to such depths. But those in charge of the Leave campaign were too stupid to see that winning on those terms was itself a defeat.
I'm just wondering if we're at that point now. No one wishes to detain you unduly.0 -
He's already building a wall around herRhubarb said:
Is she even going to make it to the G7?dyedwoolie said:Tezza smacking Trump on the end of the nose with a rolled up copy of the Telegraph
0 -
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I just spat my coffee out...dr_spyn said:0 -
Fairy nuff, but it's not Trump (for once). Identical thing happened after 7/7.dyedwoolie said:Tezza smacking Trump on the end of the nose with a rolled up copy of the Telegraph
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I voted remain, but I also share all the views that you, as a 'leaver', have just expressed above.JonCisBack said:Been a while since I was called a racist for voting leave. sheesh
Pointless re-re-re-running this argument surely?
I voted to leave an undemocratic, unaccountable more-than-embryonic political union. I did this in the full knowledge that it would involve short term economic pain (although not nearly as much as the ridiculously hyperbolic Remain campaign claimed, and in the long run economic gain is very much in our own hands)
I did not do it because I hate foreigners.
Love Europe, not the EU. No a hard concept. imagine a football fan who may - shock, horror, despite their love of the beautiful game, not have a high opinion of FIFA. It was a bit like that.
Nothing that has happened since has made me regret my decision, even though I admit my pencil did hover uncertainly for a second over the box in the voting booth. I knew it was a big decision.
Get over yourselves Remainers! Sanctimonious, superior and bitter is not a good look.
My principle reason for voting remain was that I did not see it making much difference between if we stayed under Camerons terms and if we were to leave. Both campaigns were poor and the antics of odious Farage swayed it for me.
But I agree with all your points, the ever closer EU union and Euro are not for me. So the vote is Leave and I believe we go with that and the nasty Farage has gone. If any party wants to take us back in then they are welcome to encourage us to vote for them, sans rebates plus Schengen and closer union / euro. Good luck with trying that as the LDs are proving.
Corbyn of course does not want the EU to interfere with his plans for a communist stateist Britain.
For all the praise heaped by others on Mr Meeks' article I find his comments and those of other prominent 'Remainers' on here pretty facile and odious0 -
Mr T,
When I were a lad, the worst you got from the God-botherers was a call to buy "War Cry" when you were busy getting pissed. Now it could be a call to war instead. Different times, different religions.0 -
Yep, current drug laws are the worst possible option. Either go for a liberal, regulated and taxed system such as in Portugal, Amsterdam and Colorado, or an authoritarian zero-tolerance system as seen in Bangkok, Dubai and Singapore.RoyalBlue said:
The worst possible policy is unofficial toleration i.e. what we have now. If the police won't enforce this law, why should you respect others? Same with blanket 20mph speed limits.SeanT said:
It's illegal in name only. I smell weed regularly as I walk around Camden and Regent's Park. People now smoke it pretty openly. In public spaces.IanB2 said:
Reading cannot make up for not thinking. These people are getting their drugs here, where it is already illegal.SeanT said:
Just do some bloody reading. This took me 0.002 seconds of Googling. And relates to an attack last Monday. In Manchester. You may have heard about it.IanB2 said:
Amsterdam and California being renowned for hoardes of pot-smoking Islamic terrorists compared to those being supplied by criminals here.SeanT said:
That's actually a perfectly valid argument. A lot of these jihadis are doped up to the eyeballs on skunk, or worse. It makes them paranoid and disinhibited at the same time, a bad mix. It also catalyses and accentuates any underlying mental issues.old_labour said:
"Salman Abedi’s journey from cannabis-smoking university dropout to Isis suicide bomber is being gradually pieced together by investigators"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salman-abedi-manchester-attacker-isis-terrorist-europe-islamist-suicide-bomber-arena-explosion-a7753541.html
You of all people should know that our current regime does not stop people getting hold of drugs, if they want them.
Dealing is a little more clandestine, but walk thirty yards through Camden market and several dealers will make you an offer.
As I said downthread Prohibition is not necessarily the answer. Indeed full legalisation might be the answer, as has been suggested, so we can stamp out these mad brands of skunk with stupid THC levels.
What is daft is denying a link between drugs, esp cannabis, and terror. There is a link, often.
With some wishy washy middle way people don't know where they stand, disrespect for the law is normalised and police can selectively enforce according to their prejudices.0 -
Anyone know if we're getting a MORI phone poll this week?0
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I plead guilty to what has already been described on PB today as the lowest form of wit.CD13 said:Mr Evershed,
I assume you're being sarcastic. I suspect even a few hundred would overwhelm the security resources, and internment would not be acceptable. Apart from anything else, there's always the risk of grudge accusations.0 -
Possibly...but I'm sorry....I haven't a clue.MarqueeMark said:0 -
Sean doesn't actually think about what he posts. You only have to read that Daily Mail article, which half an hour ago he shared with us as a "valid argument", and compare it with his subsequent stream of consciousness to see that there is no analysis going on at all.HHemmelig said:
Well, judging by your hysterical alcohol-fuelled BNP rantings after every terrorist attack, it sounds like you're hardly happy with the state of this country either. Perhaps you may decide to emigrate to your own spiritual homeland, the extremely stable and terror-free country that is Thailand, and spend the autumn of your life as a sad lonely old man pretending that you enjoy shagging prostitutes. To be honest I hope Alistair stays and you go. It beats me how you are allowed to keep posting here when every second post of yours is ordering someone you don't agree with to leave the site or emigrate.SeanT said:
There must come a point when the xenophobic lies of Brexit Britain, the racist, europhobic atmosphere of division and rancour, will finally force you to emigrate to your spiritual homeland, Viktor Orban's quasi-Fascist Hungary.AlastairMeeks said:
Why Brexit is a disaster is because far too many people were comfortable with using xenophobic lies in pursuit of their marginal obsession. As a result, the country has become unhappier, more divided and more racist and will continue down that path until those who did so accept that race-baiting in pursuit of votes is a recipe for disaster, the more so if the pursuit is successful.MarqueeMark said:
How many people did you try and win over in Jaywick?AlastairMeeks said:
In your case, smirk while xenophobic lies were told.MarqueeMark said:
Or..AlastairMeeks said:
.JonnyJimmy said:
It lacks the elegance of your method of ensuring Brexit by telling most Brits they're racist scum.AlastairMeeks said:I've been predicting for some time that immigration would fall by using the simple method of being so unpleasant to foreigners that they would get the message. Clearly that's working.
What did you do in the Great Referendum War, daddy?
There really isn't much that the Remain campaign could do to stop the Leave campaign stooping to such depths. But those in charge of the Leave campaign were too stupid to see that winning on those terms was itself a defeat.
I'm just wondering if we're at that point now. No one wishes to detain you unduly.
He makes a very good living selling bullsh*t to the gullible; it's just a shame that the excess production has to be dumped onto the market free of charge.0 -
It also comes in a mediocre form which is perceived by boneheaded cloth-eared perpetrators who dispose of a "little knowledge" to be the most superior and sophisticated form of excellence. British culture practically runs on that.David_Evershed said:
I plead guilty to what has already been described on PB today as the lowest form of wit.CD13 said:Mr Evershed,
I assume you're being sarcastic. I suspect even a few hundred would overwhelm the security resources, and internment would not be acceptable. Apart from anything else, there's always the risk of grudge accusations.
This is a general comment on sarcasm and not aimed at anyone here.0 -
Let Samantha be the judge of that.Disraeli said:
Possibly...but I'm sorry....I haven't a clue.MarqueeMark said:0 -
And siting on my left...David_Evershed said:
Let Samantha be the judge of that.Disraeli said:
Possibly...but I'm sorry....I haven't a clue.MarqueeMark said:0 -
Oh, really!Cyan said:
It also comes in a mediocre form which is perceived by boneheaded cloth-eared perpetrators who dispose of a "little knowledge" to be the most superior and sophisticated form of excellence. British culture practically runs on that.David_Evershed said:
I plead guilty to what has already been described on PB today as the lowest form of wit.CD13 said:Mr Evershed,
I assume you're being sarcastic. I suspect even a few hundred would overwhelm the security resources, and internment would not be acceptable. Apart from anything else, there's always the risk of grudge accusations.
This is a general comment on sarcasm and not aimed at anyone here.
0 -
@PickardJE: Trump told @michaelgove in January that Brexit would be a "great thing": "You were so smart".
You are allowed to… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/8676906579550986250 -
So your solution is that England should withdraw from FIFA and not participate in the World Cup?JonCisBack said:Love Europe, not the EU. No a hard concept. imagine a football fan who may - shock, horror, despite their love of the beautiful game, not have a high opinion of FIFA. It was a bit like that.
Oh, wait, maybe that analogy is really, really, really crap...0 -
Asking whether JC will resign after a defeat seems a perfectly reasonable. Thousands if not millions of former Labour voters are going to look elsewhere because they fear him soldiering on.
I'm in that position myself. Unless I got word from Jeremy saying he would resign in the event of defeat I would vote elsewhere. Previously such an assurance hasn't been necessary. It's always been the convention. With Jeremy the evidence suggests that support from his clique is all the excuse he needs.0 -
And your point is?dyedwoolie said:
They tried to lynch Michael crickDavid_Evershed said:
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I heard the interview as well-i thought they dealt with the issue well.Peter_the_Punter said:
They put it better than I ever could.nunu said:
Internment? Why? Parliament must suspend the Human rights act.Peter_the_Punter said:
You should have listened to Lord Blair and Frank Gardner on the Today programme this morning. They knocked that one straight on the head.nunu said:you know I have been thinking internment for the people who fight with ISIS and return here is necessary. As reluctant as I used to be, we are just understanding the scale of the problem. Ofcourse if possible we should stip them of citizenship aswell. Those Daily Mail comments are not even close to the maddest ones I've seen.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08qxfr8#play
It's about 2hours 10mins in.
they were also very clear that no matter what comes out over the next few weeks, the security forces do an amazing job and we are literally clueless to the extent of their actions.
I also thought Frank Gardner's comments at the beginning in regard to the number of young Moslem men in French jails was quite worrying.
He seemed to be implying that this was going to be a real source of problems in the future.0 -
Prohibition is the existing state of affairs and it is not proposed as a solution to a problem that it has clearly not solved.SeanT said:For the last time: I said he had a valid hypothesis - (my precise line was "that's actually a perfectly valid argument"). Because there is, all-too-often, a provable link between drug use and later radicalisation. Cannabis is particularly implicated.
The proposed solution: Prohibition, is certainly one possible approach. It is arguable. So the Daily Mail article was not bat-shit crazy as was being implied. Which, again, was the point I was making.
However, I think there are some other, possibly better solutions we should also consider. There. That's MY thesis. Now go and argue with some other shadow on the wall. I'm off for a long country walk. In the glorious sun.
As someone who values clear thought not just in myself but in others, I would like to see a much tougher clampdown on recreational drugs. That might be a solution.0 -
This site is a cannabis of sorts. It's oddly addictive, like the opinion polls.SeanT said:
It's illegal in name only. I smell weed regularly as I walk around Camden and Regent's Park. People now smoke it pretty openly. In public spaces.IanB2 said:
Reading cannot make up for not thinking. These people are getting their drugs here, where it is already illegal.SeanT said:
Just do some bloody reading. This took me 0.002 seconds of Googling. And relates to an attack last Monday. In Manchester. You may have heard about it.IanB2 said:
Amsterdam and California being renowned for hoardes of pot-smoking Islamic terrorists compared to those being supplied by criminals here.SeanT said:
That's actually a perfectly valid argument. A lot of these jihadis are doped up to the eyeballs on skunk, or worse. It makes them paranoid and disinhibited at the same time, a bad mix. It also catalyses and accentuates any underlying mental issues.old_labour said:
"Salman Abedi’s journey from cannabis-smoking university dropout to Isis suicide bomber is being gradually pieced together by investigators"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salman-abedi-manchester-attacker-isis-terrorist-europe-islamist-suicide-bomber-arena-explosion-a7753541.html
You of all people should know that our current regime does not stop people getting hold of drugs, if they want them.
Dealing is a little more clandestine, but walk thirty yards through Camden market and several dealers will make you an offer.
As I said downthread Prohibition is not necessarily the answer. Indeed full legalisation might be the answer, as has been suggested, so we can stamp out these mad brands of skunk with stupid THC levels.
What is daft is denying a link between drugs, esp cannabis, and terror. There is a link, often.0 -
Do you really think those laws are not selectively enforced in Bangkok or Dubai?Sandpit said:
Yep, current drug laws are the worst possible option. Either go for a liberal, regulated and taxed system such as in Portugal, Amsterdam and Colorado, or an authoritarian zero-tolerance system as seen in Bangkok, Dubai and Singapore.
With some wishy washy middle way people don't know where they stand, disrespect for the law is normalised and police can selectively enforce according to their prejudices.0 -
I always hate the media reporting on what the security services might know based upon a single (often dodgy) member of the public testimony. The BBC gave a prime platform to a very dodgy individual to make all sorts of claims about the security services after the murder of Lee Rigby.RepublicanTory said:
I heard the interview as well-i thought they dealt with the issue well.Peter_the_Punter said:
They put it better than I ever could.nunu said:
Internment? Why? Parliament must suspend the Human rights act.Peter_the_Punter said:
You should have listened to Lord Blair and Frank Gardner on the Today programme this morning. They knocked that one straight on the head.nunu said:you know I have been thinking internment for the people who fight with ISIS and return here is necessary. As reluctant as I used to be, we are just understanding the scale of the problem. Ofcourse if possible we should stip them of citizenship aswell. Those Daily Mail comments are not even close to the maddest ones I've seen.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08qxfr8#play
It's about 2hours 10mins in.
they were also very clear that no matter what comes out over the next few weeks, the security forces do an amazing job and we are literally clueless to the extent of their actions.
I also thought Frank Gardner's comments at the beginning in regard to the number of young Moslem men in French jails was quite worrying.
He seemed to be implying that this was going to be a real source of problems in the future.
The media know the security services can't come out and say that individual is talking total horseshit, so there is no "right of reply".
We either never know the truth or it comes out much much later and people only remember the initial reporting.
Hague decisions over the role of SAS in securing workers in Libya being a classic example.0 -
Including alcohol ?Cyan said:
Prohibition is the existing state of affairs and it is not proposed as a solution to a problem that it has clearly not solved.SeanT said:For the last time: I said he had a valid hypothesis - (my precise line was "that's actually a perfectly valid argument"). Because there is, all-too-often, a provable link between drug use and later radicalisation. Cannabis is particularly implicated.
The proposed solution: Prohibition, is certainly one possible approach. It is arguable. So the Daily Mail article was not bat-shit crazy as was being implied. Which, again, was the point I was making.
However, I think there are some other, possibly better solutions we should also consider. There. That's MY thesis. Now go and argue with some other shadow on the wall. I'm off for a long country walk. In the glorious sun.
As someone who values clear thought not just in myself but in others, I would like to see a much tougher clampdown on recreational drugs. That might be a solution.0 -
They didn't do a very good job of it?David_Evershed said:0 -
Only alcohol from the EU.TGOHF said:
Including alcohol ?Cyan said:
Prohibition is the existing state of affairs and it is not proposed as a solution to a problem that it has clearly not solved.SeanT said:For the last time: I said he had a valid hypothesis - (my precise line was "that's actually a perfectly valid argument"). Because there is, all-too-often, a provable link between drug use and later radicalisation. Cannabis is particularly implicated.
The proposed solution: Prohibition, is certainly one possible approach. It is arguable. So the Daily Mail article was not bat-shit crazy as was being implied. Which, again, was the point I was making.
However, I think there are some other, possibly better solutions we should also consider. There. That's MY thesis. Now go and argue with some other shadow on the wall. I'm off for a long country walk. In the glorious sun.
As someone who values clear thought not just in myself but in others, I would like to see a much tougher clampdown on recreational drugs. That might be a solution.0 -
Of course it's reasonable. Most opposition leaders do resign when they lose elections. If the Tories win but with a smaller majority, Corbyn probably won't resign right away. May "should" then resign and it's possible she will, but it's also possible that the media will "forget" why she said she called the election. There is a threshold for the size of Tory majority that will make Corbyn resign. Somewhere between 10 and 30 I reckon.Roger said:Asking whether JC will resign after a defeat seems a perfectly reasonable. Thousands if not millions of former Labour voters are going to look elsewhere because they fear him soldiering on.
I'm in that position myself. Unless I got word from Jeremy saying he would resign in the event of defeat I would vote elsewhere. Previously such an assurance hasn't been necessary. It's always been the convention. With Jeremy the evidence suggests that support from his clique is all the excuse he needs.0 -
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LibDem leaflet through - I see they are standing on "stopping local house-building plans".
LibDems: UKIP for pussies....0 -
If I am making any mistake, it is to actually read your posts.SeanT said:
You're a moron. I'm gonna give up arguing with you as you don't read my remarks, you just argue with what you think or hope I said. Boring.IanB2 said:
Eh? It took you twelve minutes to go from making a "valid argument" post opposing looser drug laws to recognising the current laws aren't working and after another six minutes you're saying full legalisation might be the answer?SeanT said:
It's illega suggested, so we can stamp out these mad brands of skunk with stupid THC levels.IanB2 said:
Reading cannot make up for not thinking. These people are getting their drugs here, where it is already illegal.SeanT said:
Just doIanB2 said:
Amsterdam and California being renowned for hoardes of pot-smoking Islamic terrorists compared to those being supplied by criminals here.SeanT said:
That's actually a perfectly valid argument. A lot of these jihadis are doped up to the eyeballs on skunk, or worse. It makes them paranoid and disinhibited at the same time, a bad mix. It also catalyses and accentuates any underlying mental issues.old_labour said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salman-abedi-manchester-attacker-isis-terrorist-europe-islamist-suicide-bomber-arena-explosion-a7753541.html
You of all people should know that our current regime does not stop people getting hold of drugs, if they want them.
What is daft is denying a link between drugs, esp cannabis, and terror. There is a link, often.
You make the 'moving target' defence into an art form.
For the last time: I said he had a valid hypothesis - (my precise line was "that's actually a perfectly valid argument"). Because there is, all-too-often, a provable link between drug use and later radicalisation. Cannabis is particularly implicated.
The proposed solution: Prohibition, is certainly one possible approach. It is arguable. So the Daily Mail article was not bat-shit crazy as was being implied. Which, again, was the point I was making.
However, I think there are some other, possibly better solutions we should also consider. There. That's MY thesis. Now go and argue with some other shadow on the wall. I'm off for a long country walk. In the glorious sun.0 -
Well, the penalties for drink driving seem to have reduced the numbers - why not target the drug customer with £1000 pound fines and loss of driving licence?0
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Damn...0
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If it was really Diane Abbot it would £5,200,000,000. Or - no, sorry (sound of rustling papers in the background) it would be...er...er...um...52p. No - hang on....Beverley_C said:0 -
What! You detect illegal terrorist-related behaviour regularly? And you haven't even said if the dealers are wearing beards. Have you called the terrorist helpline yet? Imagine how you'd feel if one of these dealers sold pot to someone who later watched dodgy videos.SeanT said:
It's illegal in name only. I smell weed regularly as I walk around Camden and Regent's Park. People now smoke it pretty openly. In public spaces.
Dealing is a little more clandestine, but walk thirty yards through Camden market and several dealers will make you an offer.
As I said downthread Prohibition is not necessarily the answer. Indeed full legalisation might be the answer, as has been suggested, so we can stamp out these mad brands of skunk with stupid THC levels.
What is daft is denying a link between drugs, esp cannabis, and terror. There is a link, often.
It would be All Your Fault.
0 -
Over here is pretty consistently harsh for drugs - would need to have an awful lot of wasta to avoid the clink. Several Brits get caught with drugs every year in the ME and Asia, usually by sniffer dogs at the airports. They did just drop the minimum sentence for possession to two years though (from four) and have opened a residential treatment centre for locals as an alternative if they hand themselves in.rkrkrk said:
Do you really think those laws are not selectively enforced in Bangkok or Dubai?Sandpit said:
Yep, current drug laws are the worst possible option. Either go for a liberal, regulated and taxed system such as in Portugal, Amsterdam and Colorado, or an authoritarian zero-tolerance system as seen in Bangkok, Dubai and Singapore.
With some wishy washy middle way people don't know where they stand, disrespect for the law is normalised and police can selectively enforce according to their prejudices.
Selective enforcement is a huge problem in the US, where (as with most things to do with policing in the US) it's seen as having a racial element to it.0 -
So that's why Paul Nuttall shaves his head - vitamin D!AlastairMeeks said:
0 -
I am tittering this morning at the suggestions for Mr T's other pen name. I can't hazard a guess myself, since as far as I know, I haven't read any of his books.
Unless he's the Reverend W. Awdry?0 -
Beyond parody!AlastairMeeks said:0 -
well OK it's not the best.Scott_P said:
So your solution is that England should withdraw from FIFA and not participate in the World Cup?JonCisBack said:Love Europe, not the EU. No a hard concept. imagine a football fan who may - shock, horror, despite their love of the beautiful game, not have a high opinion of FIFA. It was a bit like that.
Oh, wait, maybe that analogy is really, really, really crap...
Point was some remainers seem to think that Leave voters must necessarily therefore also dislike all French people for example. Utter cobblers.
you know what I am not going to re-run the argument.
Hoping it all goes badly for the UK now, as some on here seem to, is really, really, really crap.0 -
The couple who live in the downstairs flat smoke weed outside the front door most nights. The other day she was dressed as a smurf.
This stream of consciousness is meant to act as a substitute for polling data.0 -
There are many examples of Labour leaders remaining in post following election defeats - Kinnock in 1987 - Wilson in 1970 - Gaitskell in 1959 - Attlee in 1951. Ditto for Tory leaders.dyedwoolie said:
The closest comparison would be Callaghan who stayed on to reform the way the leader was elected before resigning. Corbyn would probably like to do that to assist the hard left.bobajobPB said:
It certainly is of general interest, Nick. Can you explain to me why Jezza should remain in post if - as is likely - he presides over a defeat and a reduction in Labour seats? Is there even a precedent for such behaviour?NickPalmer said:I won't pursue the personal debate further as I can't imagine it's of general interest, but it's certainly true that lots of Labour members who are not always left-wing will not vote to replace Corbyn after a possible election defeat unless someone offers an attractive alternative. To write all of us off as deluded zealots misses the point and is self-defeating for centrists.
Anyway, we have an election to fight now: time to worry about what happens next thereafter.
In the meantime, there's an interesting discussion here of the challenges faced by voters and MPs in our electronic age:
https://www.demos.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Signal-and-Noise-Demos.pdf
At first skim, I think they're right about the problem, but I don't instantly see that their dashboards etc. solve it. But perhaps I've not studied it enough?0 -
A majority of somewhere between 100 and 300 and Corbyn might start thinking about resigning.Cyan said:
Of course it's reasonable. Most opposition leaders do resign when they lose elections. If the Tories win but with a smaller majority, Corbyn probably won't resign right away. May "should" then resign and it's possible she will, but it's also possible that the media will "forget" why she said she called the election. There is a threshold for the size of Tory majority that will make Corbyn resign. Somewhere between 10 and 30 I reckon.Roger said:Asking whether JC will resign after a defeat seems a perfectly reasonable. Thousands if not millions of former Labour voters are going to look elsewhere because they fear him soldiering on.
I'm in that position myself. Unless I got word from Jeremy saying he would resign in the event of defeat I would vote elsewhere. Previously such an assurance hasn't been necessary. It's always been the convention. With Jeremy the evidence suggests that support from his clique is all the excuse he needs.0 -
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