politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Every day that the GE2017 campaign is suspended is a win for t
Comments
-
There is an alternative route, Sean. Next time you are in with the old man, tell him that you have noticed that the family seems to be becoming more conservative, with beards, and sermons etc... Ask him, in a genuinely inquisitive way, about his religious beliefs and, if they have changed, what is driving it.SeanT said:
Yep, that's an issue.RobD said:
That's why we have the security services to make these judgements for us. I guess the only thing you should be worried about is would it be adding an unnecessary burden on them to investigate your concerns.SeanT said:
Interesting. 99% of me is inclined the other way. What business is it of mine what they believe? They are unfailingly polite. They've done nothing to annoy or harm or even irritate me. It seems and feels wrong to report any of them. I also have no concrete eye-witness evidence of anything.steve_garner said:
If you have suspicions you should report them.
And yet, after Manchester...
Hmm.
You are a human, a social being, a journalist and a novelist. You have every reason to be inquisitive and curious about the fellow human beings in your life, no matter how superficially they are there.
His answers might put your mind at ease, or make the decision to talk to security personnel more clear cut.
PS There are any number of different ways you could do this, if the above approach does not do it for you. You might says, for instance, I notice you are a conservative Muslim, and I am interested on your take on the Manchester attacks and how that event may affect your and your family given your visible signs of Islam0 -
Where do CCHQ find these people?FrancisUrquhart said:Ranty bag lady has some lovely selfies...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4537978/Woman-HECKLES-police-soldiers-Downing-Street.html0 -
I heard that reduced her to tears....Cyan said:I withdraw my support for Theresa May's decision to give an increased role to the army.
0 -
Blimey seeing the people she hangs around with she should go on a watch list.FrancisUrquhart said:Ranty bag lady has some lovely selfies...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4537978/Woman-HECKLES-police-soldiers-Downing-Street.html0 -
Hopefully there won't be too much ire directed at the Government and security services, unless evidence of straightforward incompetence comes to light.TheScreamingEagles said:
Given that police and intelligence officers are doubtless engaged in a constant game of whac-a-jihadi, played for the highest stakes against many thousands of fanatical enemies, it's probably safe to assume that they've done a remarkable job in foiling every potential mass casualty terror plot for nearly a dozen years.0 -
The armed forces are not trained to police such places, they are being put where they won't have to do much aside from guarding buildings. Even that is going to be much more pressurised and high profile than they are used to.Cyan said:So...a big incident between Britain and the US. And the BBC reports the response from the mayor of Manchester. I don't want to hear the damned mayor of Manchester. I want to hear mophead Johnson. Where is he? Might awarding him too much exposure damage Tory election chances? Or does his US citizenship give him a conflict of interest?
Seems that the publication of the photos in the NYT was designed to swamp the earlier naming issue.
I withdraw my support for Theresa May's decision to give an increased role to the army. It's typical of the people who run Britain: in times of trouble, let's all think of the royal family. Buckingham Palace is already protected by the army, and by Israeli software. Soldiers should be sent to shopping centres, transport hubs, football matches, and other entertainment events.
Is even a single newspaper asking how Ramadan Abedi managed to get into the foyer and explode the bomb?
Who did the security? Were all the security staff SIA approved? Is there any involvement of gangsters in security at the Manchester Arena? (And is the Pope Catholic?)
Talking of Israel...while no decent person respects the right of that Nazi-style ethnic supremacist regime to exist, it has to be recognised that security at such events on territory controlled by that regime is far superior to security in Britain.0 -
You've at least avoided wasting police time with wildly inadequate evidence, and therefore slightly increased the chance that they'll catch someone genuinely dangerous.SeanT said:
Sure. That's my natural reflex.NickPalmer said:
Nothing. Your instincts are right. Even if he IS listening to hate preaching, of which you have no real evidence, it's perfectly legal to listen to anything he wants so long as he doesn't take violent action. The police don't have time to watch everyone who sits around in between customers looking at videos. And if he's merely doing the equivalent of watching Songs of Praise, it's unreasonable to hassle him about it or even to expect him to be chatty. He's a dry cleaner, not a taxi-driver.SeanT said:
Clearly this family has become more conservatively religious. But are they showing signs of being radicalised? My British instinct, my London instinct, is to shrug my shoulders and let them get on with their lives. Live and let live.
But what if that is wrong thing to do? Maybe I should mention to the police that this family is worth watching? Or is that a ludicrous waste of police time, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?
But what, then, if I later learn that the son has gone to Syria, or done something even worse?
But I agree with TimT, you could take a friendly interest, maybe ask after his family too, and see how he responds. But he's not really required to, and if he just smiles vaguely it's not evidence either.0 -
What exactly are you reporting? That they have become more religiosly conservative.SeanT said:
Interesting. 99% of me is inclined the other way. What business is it of mine what they believe? They are unfailingly polite. They've done nothing to annoy or harm or even irritate me. It seems and feels wrong to report any of them. I also have no concrete eye-witness evidence of anything.steve_garner said:
If you have suspicions you should report them.SeanT said:Here's a very relevant modern-day dilemma, PB
I have a Muslim dry-cleaner, here in Camden. The patriarch and his sons run the shop, sometimes I see the daughters helping out. They've always been quite amiable, but they always maintain a distance. They aren't chatty. There is perhaps a hint of disdain for the Kaffir clientele, but that could just be me being paranoid. They clean my shirts very well. We all smile politely.
ANYWAY in recent months the family has changed. One of the sons has grown a VERY long beard and now dresses traditionally. He doesn't talk to me or any customers any more. The cowed and obedient daughters have disappeared entirely. Sometimes when I walk in the patriarch is playing videos on his iPhone which sound - to my ears - like ranting preachers. But it is in Arabic so I have no idea whether it is hate preaching, or just impassioned devotion. He hastily turns it off when I walk in.
Clearly this family has become more conservatively religious. But are they showing signs of being radicalised? My British instinct, my London instinct, is to shrug my shoulders and let them get on with their lives. Live and let live.
But what if that is wrong thing to do? Maybe I should mention to the police that this family is worth watching? Or is that a ludicrous waste of police time, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?
And yet, after Manchester...
Hmm.
SeanT: Hello I would like to report my suspicions of a muslim family please.
Call handeler: OK, go ahead what are your suspicions.
Seant: Well there's this family that own a laundrette, they have become more conservative the son has grown a beard, a really long one. and the daughters are not there anymore, oh and the dad/grandad listens to some really scary sounding Arabic........em I'm really worried about them.....
Callhandler: OK.....em what is the dad/grandad listening to?
SeanT: I'm not sure but it sounds really scary it's really shouty.
Callhandler: OK Thank you for your call, your concerns have been noted. Good bye.
Call the anti-terror hotline if you want to the the police won't pay them a visit but they will be watched for a bit, but we must be careful not to be paranoid.0 -
There was no budget deficit before 2008?bigjohnowls said:
Well they did up to 2008Philip_Thompson said:
Remember Labour increasing Police numbers sustainably with an even budget that wasn't in deficit?bigjohnowls said:https://twitter.com/NickKehoeTV/status/867313187246542848
Also applies to Army,RN,RAF,NHS, Border Service, Fire Service
All while threat was severe
No, me neither.0 -
Yeah it's stupid to count the "failures" if you don't count the successes. On average about 1 person a day is arrested for a terrorism offence. There are a lot of plots being foiled, and some of them were intended to be much worse than what happened on Monday night.Black_Rook said:Given that police and intelligence officers are doubtless engaged in a constant game of whac-a-jihadi, played for the highest stakes against many thousands of fanatical enemies, it's probably safe to assume that they've done a remarkable job in foiling every potential mass casualty terror plot for nearly a dozen years.
0 -
Better to be safe than sorry.SeanT said:
Yep, that's an issue.RobD said:
That's why we have the security services to make these judgements for us. I guess the only thing you should be worried about is would it be adding an unnecessary burden on them to investigate your concerns.SeanT said:
Interesting. 99% of me is inclined the other way. What business is it of mine what they believe? They are unfailingly polite. They've done nothing to annoy or harm or even irritate me. It seems and feels wrong to report any of them. I also have no concrete eye-witness evidence of anything.steve_garner said:
If you have suspicions you should report them.SeanT said:Here's a very relevant modern-day dilemma, PB
I have a Muslim dry-cleaner, here in Camden. The patriarch and his sons run the shop, sometimes I see the daughters helping out. They've always been quite amiable, but they always maintain a distance. They aren't chatty. There is perhaps a hint of disdain for the Kaffir clientele, but that could just be me being paranoid. They clean my shirts very well. We all smile politely.
ANYWAY in recent months the family has changed. One of the sons has grown a VERY long beard and now dresses traditionally. He doesn't talk to me or any customers any more. The cowed and obedient daughters have disappeared entirely. Sometimes when I walk in the patriarch is playing videos on his iPhone which sound - to my ears - like ranting preachers. But it is in Arabic so I have no idea whether it is hate preaching, or just impassioned devotion. He hastily turns it off when I walk in.
Clearly this family has become more conservatively religious. But are they showing signs of being radicalised? My British instinct, my London instinct, is to shrug my shoulders and let them get on with their lives. Live and let live.
But what if that is wrong thing to do? Maybe I should mention to the police that this family is worth watching? Or is that a ludicrous waste of police time, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?
And yet, after Manchester...
Hmm.0 -
Report the son for what growing a long beard? Did the Manchester bomber have a long beard and wear traditional clothes? No. Actually most (all?) of the bombers in Britain have NOT been like this.Pulpstar said:
Report the son to the authorities, you don't need to let the family know you did so. But the spooks need to get him on their watch list it sounds to me - the pros can handle things after you've reported your suspicions.SeanT said:Here's a very relevant modern-day dilemma, PB
I have a Muslim dry-cleaner, here in Camden. The patriarch and his sons run the shop, sometimes I see the daughters helping out. They've always been quite amiable, but they always maintain a distance. They aren't chatty. There is perhaps a hint of disdain for the Kaffir clientele, but that could just be me being paranoid. They clean my shirts very well. We all smile politely.
ANYWAY in recent months the family has changed. One of the sons has grown a VERY long beard and now dresses traditionally. He doesn't talk to me or any customers any more. The cowed and obedient daughters have disappeared entirely. Sometimes when I walk in the patriarch is playing videos on his iPhone which sound - to my ears - like ranting preachers. But it is in Arabic so I have no idea whether it is hate preaching, or just impassioned devotion. He hastily turns it off when I walk in.
Clearly this family has become more conservatively religious. But are they showing signs of being radicalised? My British instinct, my London instinct, is to shrug my shoulders and let them get on with their lives. Live and let live.
But what if that is wrong thing to do? Maybe I should mention to the police that this family is worth watching? Or is that a ludicrous waste of police time, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?0 -
Oh, good evening Ken.Cyan said:Talking of Israel...while no decent person respects the right of that Nazi-style ethnic supremacist regime to exist...
0 -
"You know who also didn't think that Israel should exist, Hit.." and the mic is knocked away.Black_Rook said:
Oh, good evening Ken.Cyan said:Talking of Israel...while no decent person respects the right of that Nazi-style ethnic supremacist regime to exist...
0 -
What an idiotic thing to say.HaroldO said:
"You know who also didn't think that Israel should exist, Hit.." and the mic is knocked away.Black_Rook said:
Oh, good evening Ken.Cyan said:Talking of Israel...while no decent person respects the right of that Nazi-style ethnic supremacist regime to exist...
0 -
Rather than hate preaching, he might be embarrassed at you catching him reading your latest sexual exploits on pb.com? Hence the general disdain - and absence of daughters....SeanT said:Here's a very relevant modern-day dilemma, PB
I have a Muslim dry-cleaner, here in Camden. The patriarch and his sons run the shop, sometimes I see the daughters helping out. They've always been quite amiable, but they always maintain a distance. They aren't chatty. There is perhaps a hint of disdain for the Kaffir clientele, but that could just be me being paranoid. They clean my shirts very well. We all smile politely.
ANYWAY in recent months the family has changed. One of the sons has grown a VERY long beard and now dresses traditionally. He doesn't talk to me or any customers any more. The cowed and obedient daughters have disappeared entirely. Sometimes when I walk in the patriarch is playing videos on his iPhone which sound - to my ears - like ranting preachers. But it is in Arabic so I have no idea whether it is hate preaching, or just impassioned devotion. He hastily turns it off when I walk in.
Clearly this family has become more conservatively religious. But are they showing signs of being radicalised? My British instinct, my London instinct, is to shrug my shoulders and let them get on with their lives. Live and let live.
But what if that is wrong thing to do? Maybe I should mention to the police that this family is worth watching? Or is that a ludicrous waste of police time, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?0 -
Precisely this.Pulpstar said:@nunu There was a piece on the radio today, the chap said if something feels out of place, wrong, then it should definitely be reported.
Give someone else the jigsaw piece you just saw, even if it's tiny. If everyone who sees something that looks wrong does that, then a distrubring picture might emerge. However if the police stick two jigsaw pieces together and can tell it's going to be a boring picture of a Swiss Street in the snow, they will move on,
Trust your instincts, and then trust the authorities to take a view. There are plenty of safeguards for the privacy of the family.0 -
He can just report it all as he's described here. It's probably nothing, but that is for the spooks to decide.nunu said:
Report the son for what growing a long beard? Did the Manchester bomber have a long beard and wear traditional clothes? No. Actually most (all?) of the bombers in Britain have NOT been like this.Pulpstar said:
Report the son to the authorities, you don't need to let the family know you did so. But the spooks need to get him on their watch list it sounds to me - the pros can handle things after you've reported your suspicions.SeanT said:Here's a very relevant modern-day dilemma, PB
I have a Muslim dry-cleaner, here in Camden. The patriarch and his sons run the shop, sometimes I see the daughters helping out. They've always been quite amiable, but they always maintain a distance. They aren't chatty. There is perhaps a hint of disdain for the Kaffir clientele, but that could just be me being paranoid. They clean my shirts very well. We all smile politely.
ANYWAY in recent months the family has changed. One of the sons has grown a VERY long beard and now dresses traditionally. He doesn't talk to me or any customers any more. The cowed and obedient daughters have disappeared entirely. Sometimes when I walk in the patriarch is playing videos on his iPhone which sound - to my ears - like ranting preachers. But it is in Arabic so I have no idea whether it is hate preaching, or just impassioned devotion. He hastily turns it off when I walk in.
Clearly this family has become more conservatively religious. But are they showing signs of being radicalised? My British instinct, my London instinct, is to shrug my shoulders and let them get on with their lives. Live and let live.
But what if that is wrong thing to do? Maybe I should mention to the police that this family is worth watching? Or is that a ludicrous waste of police time, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?
His local imam might get a tip off and be able to find out if anything is going on in his life for instance. I don't know exactly how these things work, but as Sean Fear says better to be safe rather than sorry.0 -
I was going to say - just ask them. No law against it. Say 'what's with the beard? Any holidays planned??' Wink winkSeanT said:
A good suggestion - if only they were chattier. It's very hard to get them to talk. They are reserved and uptight. And so are many Brits. It's not a crime.MTimT said:
There is an alternative route, Sean. Next time you are in with the old man, tell him that you have noticed that the family seems to be becoming more conservative, with beards, and sermons etc... Ask him, in a genuinely inquisitive way, about his religious beliefs and, if they have changed, what is driving it.SeanT said:
Yep, that's an issue.RobD said:
That's why we have the security services to make these judgements for us. I guess the only thing you should be worried about is would it be adding an unnecessary burden on them to investigate your concerns.SeanT said:
Interesting. 99% of me is inclined the other way. What business is it of mine what they believe? They are unfailingly polite. They've done nothing to annoy or harm or even irritate me. It seems and feels wrong to report any of them. I also have no concrete eye-witness evidence of anything.steve_garner said:
If you have suspicions you should report them.
And yet, after Manchester...
Hmm.
You are a human, a social being, a journalist and a novelist. You have every reason to be inquisitive and curious about the fellow human beings in your life, no matter how superficially they are there.
His answers might put your mind at ease, or make the decision to talk to security personnel more clear cut.
PS There are any number of different ways you could do this, if the above approach does not do it for you. You might says, for instance, I notice you are a conservative Muslim, and I am interested on your take on the Manchester attacks and how that event may affect your and your family given your visible signs of Islam
Another thing I've noticed is a slight tension between the deeply religious son who has basically stopped serving customers - the guy with the long long beard - and the westernised son, clean-shaven, more friendly, who now does all the customer work. Hmm.
It's a genuine dilemma.
You wouldn't hesitate to comment if a white British family suddenly changed, so why not in this situation?0 -
Well, yes, we all thought that of Ken at the time.....Cyan said:
What an idiotic thing to say.HaroldO said:
"You know who also didn't think that Israel should exist, Hit.." and the mic is knocked away.Black_Rook said:
Oh, good evening Ken.Cyan said:Talking of Israel...while no decent person respects the right of that Nazi-style ethnic supremacist regime to exist...
0 -
I understand. But in my travels in the Middle East and Pakistan, I have found ways to engage very conservative people. It may take several smaller conversations before you can start talking about bigger issues. But finding a point of commonality is always a good starting point.SeanT said:
A good suggestion - if only they were chattier. It's very hard to get them to talk. They are reserved and uptight. And so are many Brits. It's not a crime.MTimT said:
There is an alternative route, Sean. Next time you are in with the old man, tell him that you have noticed that the family seems to be becoming more conservative, with beards, and sermons etc... Ask him, in a genuinely inquisitive way, about his religious beliefs and, if they have changed, what is driving it.
You are a human, a social being, a journalist and a novelist. You have every reason to be inquisitive and curious about the fellow human beings in your life, no matter how superficially they are there.
His answers might put your mind at ease, or make the decision to talk to security personnel more clear cut.
PS There are any number of different ways you could do this, if the above approach does not do it for you. You might says, for instance, I notice you are a conservative Muslim, and I am interested on your take on the Manchester attacks and how that event may affect your and your family given your visible signs of Islam
Another thing I've noticed is a slight tension between the deeply religious son who has basically stopped serving customers - the guy with the long long beard - and the westernised son, clean-shaven, more friendly, who now does all the customer work. Hmm.
It's a genuine dilemma.
Here, say in gas stations, I nearly always ask people who are clearly not US-born where there accent is from and then, once they state a country, ask which town. If I've been there, I say so and make some compliment about the place. It's amazing how that opens the door to conversation.
In Africa, it is easy. You just ask them which Premier League team they support. If you know little bit about the London and Merseyside teams, you'll be ok!0 -
You think the army aren't used to pressure? They can protect those places. They would do things in a service fashion, for sure, but that would be a positive.HaroldO said:
The armed forces are not trained to police such places, they are being put where they won't have to do much aside from guarding buildings. Even that is going to be much more pressurised and high profile than they are used to.Cyan said:So...a big incident between Britain and the US. And the BBC reports the response from the mayor of Manchester. I don't want to hear the damned mayor of Manchester. I want to hear mophead Johnson. Where is he? Might awarding him too much exposure damage Tory election chances? Or does his US citizenship give him a conflict of interest?
Seems that the publication of the photos in the NYT was designed to swamp the earlier naming issue.
I withdraw my support for Theresa May's decision to give an increased role to the army. It's typical of the people who run Britain: in times of trouble, let's all think of the royal family. Buckingham Palace is already protected by the army, and by Israeli software. Soldiers should be sent to shopping centres, transport hubs, football matches, and other entertainment events.
Is even a single newspaper asking how Ramadan Abedi managed to get into the foyer and explode the bomb?
Who did the security? Were all the security staff SIA approved? Is there any involvement of gangsters in security at the Manchester Arena? (And is the Pope Catholic?)
Talking of Israel...while no decent person respects the right of that Nazi-style ethnic supremacist regime to exist, it has to be recognised that security at such events on territory controlled by that regime is far superior to security in Britain.0 -
On a different topic the last few years has seen some of the most inept campaigns in British electoral history:
2011 YEStoAV
2015 LibDem
2016 Remain
2017 LibDem
Is there anybody who played a leading part in all four running disasters ?-1 -
How will you feel if one of them turns out to be the next Abedi?SeanT said:
lol. Yes, I am well aware the convo might go that way and I will feel and look like an idiot, along with having the guilt of "snitching" on a perfectly polite, if taciturn family, who have done me zero harm, and are my fellow British citizens.nunu said:
What exactly are you reporting? That they have become more religiosly conservative.SeanT said:
Interesting. 99% of me is inclined the other way. What business is it of mine what they believe? They are unfailingly polite. They've done nothing to annoy or harm or even irritate me. It seems and feels wrong to report any of them. I also have no concrete eye-witness evidence of anything.steve_garner said:
If you have suspicions you should report them.SeanT said:Here's a very relevant modern-day dilemma, PB
I have a, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?
And yet, after Manchester...
Hmm.
SeanT: Hello I would like to report my suspicions of a muslim family please.
Call handeler: OK, go ahead what are your suspicions.
Seant: Well there's this family that own a laundrette, they have become more conservative the son has grown a beard, a really long one. and the daughters are not there anymore, oh and the dad/grandad listens to some really scary sounding Arabic........em I'm really worried about them.....
Callhandler: OK.....em what is the dad/grandad listening to?
SeanT: I'm not sure but it sounds really scary it's really shouty.
Callhandler: OK Thank you for your call, your concerns have been noted. Good bye.
Call the anti-terror hotline if you want to the the police won't pay them a visit but they will be watched for a bit, but we must be careful not to be paranoid.
There must be thousands of non-Muslim Brits wrestling with this kind of dilemma right now, across the country. At what point do you overcome your natural and admirable British urge to live and let live, and say OK, this is slightly alarming.
If you are concerned then say so. It will always be on your conscience otherwise.0 -
I think that disquiet is very healthy. Hence my suggestion to engage in whatever way you can before judging, and before reporting.SeanT said:
Yes, I WOULD hesitate to comment if a white British family suddenly changed. For exactly the same reasons. They are my fellow British citizens, and they have done nothing visibly wrong.isam said:
I was going to say - just ask them. No law against it. Say 'what's with the beard? Any holidays planned??' Wink winkSeanT said:
A good suggestion - if only they were chattier. It's very hard to get them to talk. They are reserved and uptight. And so are many Brits. It's not a crime.MTimT said:
There is ant says, for instance, I notice you are a conservative Muslim, and I am interested on your take on the Manchester attacks and how that event may affect your and your family given your visible signs of IslamSeanT said:
Another thing I've noticed is a slight tension between the deeply religious son who has basically stopped serving customers - the guy with the long long beard - and the westernised son, clean-shaven, more friendly, who now does all the customer work. Hmm.
It's a genuine dilemma.
You wouldn't hesitate to comment if a white British family suddenly changed, so why not in this situation?
I just have a vague disquiet, and I don't know if that is remotely enough reason " to go to the police".
Perhaps the non-bearded son is the way in.0 -
Do many say Palace?! ;-)MTimT said:
I understand. But in my travels in the Middle East and Pakistan, I have found ways to engage very conservative people. It may take several smaller conversations before you can start talking about bigger issues. But finding a point of commonality is always a good starting point.SeanT said:
A good suggestion - if only they were chattier. It's very hard to get them to talk. They are reserved and uptight. And so are many Brits. It's not a crime.MTimT said:
There is an alternative route, Sean. Next time you are in with the old man, tell him that you have noticed that the family seems to be becoming more conservative, with beards, and sermons etc... Ask him, in a genuinely inquisitive way, about his religious beliefs and, if they have changed, what is driving it.
You are a human, a social being, a journalist and a novelist. You have every reason to be inquisitive and curious about the fellow human beings in your life, no matter how superficially they are there.
His answers might put your mind at ease, or make the decision to talk to security personnel more clear cut.
PS There are any number of different ways you could do this, if the above approach does not do it for you. You might says, for instance, I notice you are a conservative Muslim, and I am interested on your take on the Manchester attacks and how that event may affect your and your family given your visible signs of Islam
Another thing I've noticed is a slight tension between the deeply religious son who has basically stopped serving customers - the guy with the long long beard - and the westernised son, clean-shaven, more friendly, who now does all the customer work. Hmm.
It's a genuine dilemma.
Here, say in gas stations, I nearly always ask people who are clearly not US-born where there accent is from and then, once they state a country, ask which town. If I've been there, I say so and make some compliment about the place. It's amazing how that opens the door to conversation.
In Africa, it is easy. You just ask them which Premier League team they support. If you know little bit about the London and Merseyside teams, you'll be ok!0 -
I agree with Mike. Time to get back to business.0
-
Best response yet!MarqueeMark said:
Rather than hate preaching, he might be embarrassed at you catching him reading your latest sexual exploits on pb.com? Hence the general disdain - and absence of daughters....SeanT said:Here's a very relevant modern-day dilemma, PB
I have a Muslim dry-cleaner, here in Camden. The patriarch and his sons run the shop, sometimes I see the daughters helping out. They've always been quite amiable, but they always maintain a distance. They aren't chatty. There is perhaps a hint of disdain for the Kaffir clientele, but that could just be me being paranoid. They clean my shirts very well. We all smile politely.
ANYWAY in recent months the family has changed. One of the sons has grown a VERY long beard and now dresses traditionally. He doesn't talk to me or any customers any more. The cowed and obedient daughters have disappeared entirely. Sometimes when I walk in the patriarch is playing videos on his iPhone which sound - to my ears - like ranting preachers. But it is in Arabic so I have no idea whether it is hate preaching, or just impassioned devotion. He hastily turns it off when I walk in.
Clearly this family has become more conservatively religious. But are they showing signs of being radicalised? My British instinct, my London instinct, is to shrug my shoulders and let them get on with their lives. Live and let live.
But what if that is wrong thing to do? Maybe I should mention to the police that this family is worth watching? Or is that a ludicrous waste of police time, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?
0 -
Ah, here is the shadow home secretary questioning US intell.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/867465158674796544
Oh wait.0 -
it is the change in behaviour patterns that is the key-SeanT said:Here's a very relevant modern-day dilemma, PB
I have a Muslim dry-cleaner, here in Camden. The patriarch and his sons run the shop, sometimes I see the daughters helping out. They've always been quite amiable, but they always maintain a distance. They aren't chatty. There is perhaps a hint of disdain for the Kaffir clientele, but that could just be me being paranoid. They clean my shirts very well. We all smile politely.
ANYWAY in recent months the family has changed. One of the sons has grown a VERY long beard and now dresses traditionally. He doesn't talk to me or any customers any more. The cowed and obedient daughters have disappeared entirely. Sometimes when I walk in the patriarch is playing videos on his iPhone which sound - to my ears - like ranting preachers. But it is in Arabic so I have no idea whether it is hate preaching, or just impassioned devotion. He hastily turns it off when I walk in.
Clearly this family has become more conservatively religious. But are they showing signs of being radicalised? My British instinct, my London instinct, is to shrug my shoulders and let them get on with their lives. Live and let live.
But what if that is wrong thing to do? Maybe I should mention to the police that this family is worth watching? Or is that a ludicrous waste of police time, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?
why the change?
was there a trigger?
what other things that you do not see have also changed?
If you report it and it is nothing you have wasted a little bit of someones time-no big deal
If you dont report it and it is something....someones life could be wasted....
The key is you feel the need to ask -that alone says that something to you feels wrong.
Report it.
0 -
Good evening. I see we are discussing the rights and wrongs of grassing up a dry cleaner for growing a beard. Even by PB standards, that's one for the album.0
-
Mike Smithson?another_richard said:On a different topic the last few years has seen some of the most inept campaigns in British electoral history:
2011 YEStoAV
2015 LibDem
2016 Remain
2017 LibDem
Is there anybody who played a leading part in all four running disasters ?0 -
Personally if I were you, I'd say 'I've been shagging some 20 something Corbynites, I've got some tips about shagging 72 virgins, are you're interested?'SeanT said:
If he says yes, then call the hotline.0 -
I hear Stoke City are popular in the Central African Republic.KentRising said:
Do many say Palace?! ;-)MTimT said:
I understand. But in my travels in the Middle East and Pakistan, I have found ways to engage very conservative people. It may take several smaller conversations before you can start talking about bigger issues. But finding a point of commonality is always a good starting point.SeanT said:
A good suggestion - if only they were chattier. It's very hard to get them to talk. They are reserved and uptight. And so are many Brits. It's not a crime.MTimT said:
There is an alternative route, Sean. Next time you are in with the old man, tell him that you have noticed that the family seems to be becoming more conservative, with beards, and sermons etc... Ask him, in a genuinely inquisitive way, about his religious beliefs and, if they have changed, what is driving it.
You are a human, a social being, a journalist and a novelist. You have every reason to be inquisitive and curious about the fellow human beings in your life, no matter how superficially they are there.
His answers might put your mind at ease, or make the decision to talk to security personnel more clear cut.
PS There are any number of different ways you could do this, if the above approach does not do it for you. You might says, for instance, I notice you are a conservative Muslim, and I am interested on your take on the Manchester attacks and how that event may affect your and your family given your visible signs of Islam
Another thing I've noticed is a slight tension between the deeply religious son who has basically stopped serving customers - the guy with the long long beard - and the westernised son, clean-shaven, more friendly, who now does all the customer work. Hmm.
It's a genuine dilemma.
Here, say in gas stations, I nearly always ask people who are clearly not US-born where there accent is from and then, once they state a country, ask which town. If I've been there, I say so and make some compliment about the place. It's amazing how that opens the door to conversation.
In Africa, it is easy. You just ask them which Premier League team they support. If you know little bit about the London and Merseyside teams, you'll be ok!0 -
LOL.KentRising said:
Do many say Palace?! ;-)MTimT said:
I understand. But in my travels in the Middle East and Pakistan, I have found ways to engage very conservative people. It may take several smaller conversations before you can start talking about bigger issues. But finding a point of commonality is always a good starting point.SeanT said:
A good suggestion - if only they were chattier. It's very hard to get them to talk. They are reserved and uptight. And so are many Brits. It's not a crime.MTimT said:
There is an alternative route, Sean. Next time you are in with the old man, tell him that you have noticed that the family seems to be becoming more conservative, with beards, and sermons etc... Ask him, in a genuinely inquisitive way, about his religious beliefs and, if they have changed, what is driving it.
You are a human, a social being, a journalist and a novelist. You have every reason to be inquisitive and curious about the fellow human beings in your life, no matter how superficially they are there.
His answers might put your mind at ease, or make the decision to talk to security personnel more clear cut.
PS There are any number of different ways you could do this, if the above approach does not do it for you. You might says, for instance, I notice you are a conservative Muslim, and I am interested on your take on the Manchester attacks and how that event may affect your and your family given your visible signs of Islam
Another thing I've noticed is a slight tension between the deeply religious son who has basically stopped serving customers - the guy with the long long beard - and the westernised son, clean-shaven, more friendly, who now does all the customer work. Hmm.
It's a genuine dilemma.
Here, say in gas stations, I nearly always ask people who are clearly not US-born where there accent is from and then, once they state a country, ask which town. If I've been there, I say so and make some compliment about the place. It's amazing how that opens the door to conversation.
In Africa, it is easy. You just ask them which Premier League team they support. If you know little bit about the London and Merseyside teams, you'll be ok!0 -
It is a different kind of pressure though, they would be used to being overseen by their commanders and colleagues but every day in front of the public all day?Cyan said:
You think the army aren't used to pressure? They can protect those places. They would do things in a service fashion, for sure, but that would be a positive.HaroldO said:
The armed forces are not trained to police such places, they are being put where they won't have to do much aside from guarding buildings. Even that is going to be much more pressurised and high profile than they are used to.Cyan said:So...a big incident between Britain and the US. And the BBC reports the response from the mayor of Manchester. I don't want to hear the damned mayor of Manchester. I want to hear mophead Johnson. Where is he? Might awarding him too much exposure damage Tory election chances? Or does his US citizenship give him a conflict of interest?
Seems that the publication of the photos in the NYT was designed to swamp the earlier naming issue.
I withdraw my support for Theresa May's decision to give an increased role to the army. It's typical of the people who run Britain: in times of trouble, let's all think of the royal family. Buckingham Palace is already protected by the army, and by Israeli software. Soldiers should be sent to shopping centres, transport hubs, football matches, and other entertainment events.
Is even a single newspaper asking how Ramadan Abedi managed to get into the foyer and explode the bomb?
Who did the security? Were all the security staff SIA approved? Is there any involvement of gangsters in security at the Manchester Arena? (And is the Pope Catholic?)
Talking of Israel...while no decent person respects the right of that Nazi-style ethnic supremacist regime to exist, it has to be recognised that security at such events on territory controlled by that regime is far superior to security in Britain.
I think they can definitely protect what they are given to protect, I just don't think they could manage to police a match day at a big football game, or a busy train station. They don't have the training for it.0 -
Really? If a regular white kid suddenly shaved all his hair off and started wearing vaguely nazi clothing in a family shop I used, I'd ask what brought it on and try a bit of light hearted banter before I reported him to the policeSeanT said:
Yes, I WOULD hesitate to comment if a white British family suddenly changed. For exactly the same reasons. They are my fellow British citizens, and they have done nothing visibly wrong.isam said:
I was going to say - just ask them. No law against it. Say 'what's with the beard? Any holidays planned??' Wink winkSeanT said:
A good suggestion - if only they were chattier. It's very hard to get them to talk. They are reserved and uptight. And so are many Brits. It's not a crime.MTimT said:
There is ant says, for instance, I notice you are a conservative Muslim, and I am interested on your take on the Manchester attacks and how that event may affect your and your family given your visible signs of IslamSeanT said:
Another thing I've noticed is a slight tension between the deeply religious son who has basically stopped serving customers - the guy with the long long beard - and the westernised son, clean-shaven, more friendly, who now does all the customer work. Hmm.
It's a genuine dilemma.
You wouldn't hesitate to comment if a white British family suddenly changed, so why not in this situation?
I just have a vague disquiet, and I don't know if that is remotely enough reason " to go to the police".0 -
The fact is in the world we live in, where sudden changes of behaviour are later revealed to be more significant than they appeared in isolation, it is in fact an issue of debate. That is deeply sad, and no one is happy about that, nor is everyone saying they think it should be done, but it is not, in today's world, a debate which comes out of nowhere without reason, and thus not in it self preposterous, much as we might wish it to be.bobajobPB said:Good evening. I see we are discussing the rights and wrongs of grassing up a dry cleaner for growing a beard. Even by PB standards, that's one for the album.
0 -
Yeah, well you started it.Cyan said:
What an idiotic thing to say.HaroldO said:
"You know who also didn't think that Israel should exist, Hit.." and the mic is knocked away.Black_Rook said:
Oh, good evening Ken.Cyan said:Talking of Israel...while no decent person respects the right of that Nazi-style ethnic supremacist regime to exist...
0 -
I have yet to meet anybody in this line of work who has saidSeanT said:
Sure. That's my natural reflex.NickPalmer said:
Nothing. Your instincts are right. Even if he IS listening to hate preaching, of which you have no real evidence, it's perfectly legal to listen to anything he wants so long as he doesn't take violent action. The police don't have time to watch everyone who sits around in between customers looking at videos. And if he's merely doing the equivalent of watching Songs of Praise, it's unreasonable to hassle him about it or even to expect him to be chatty. He's a dry cleaner, not a taxi-driver.SeanT said:
Clearly this family has become more conservatively religious. But are they showing signs of being radicalised? My British instinct, my London instinct, is to shrug my shoulders and let them get on with their lives. Live and let live.
But what if that is wrong thing to do? Maybe I should mention to the police that this family is worth watching? Or is that a ludicrous waste of police time, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?
But what, then, if I later learn that the son has gone to Syria, or done something even worse?
" i wish the public would call us less"
I've met or heard plenty who are utterly F***ed after an incident and who have said-"why the F*** are they telling us NOW that X or Y did this or that and that they had CHANGED"
"why didn't they say something before?"
report it.0 -
I just couldn't help myself.....and we are back to Ken again.ThreeQuidder said:
Yeah, well you started it.Cyan said:
What an idiotic thing to say.HaroldO said:
"You know who also didn't think that Israel should exist, Hit.." and the mic is knocked away.Black_Rook said:
Oh, good evening Ken.Cyan said:Talking of Israel...while no decent person respects the right of that Nazi-style ethnic supremacist regime to exist...
0 -
My experience in Africa is that they support Barca.MTimT said:
I understand. But in my travels in the Middle East and Pakistan, I have found ways to engage very conservative people. It may take several smaller conversations before you can start talking about bigger issues. But finding a point of commonality is always a good starting point.SeanT said:
A good suggestion - if only they were chattier. It's very hard to get them to talk. They are reserved and uptight. And so are many Brits. It's not a crime.MTimT said:
There is an alternative route, Sean. Next time you are in with the old man, tell him that you have noticed that the family seems to be becoming more conservative, with beards, and sermons etc... Ask him, in a genuinely inquisitive way, about his religious beliefs and, if they have changed, what is driving it.
You are a human, a social being, a journalist and a novelist. You have every reason to be inquisitive and curious about the fellow human beings in your life, no matter how superficially they are there.
His answers might put your mind at ease, or make the decision to talk to security personnel more clear cut.
PS There are any number of different ways you could do this, if the above approach does not do it for you. You might says, for instance, I notice you are a conservative Muslim, and I am interested on your take on the Manchester attacks and how that event may affect your and your family given your visible signs of Islam
Another thing I've noticed is a slight tension between the deeply religious son who has basically stopped serving customers - the guy with the long long beard - and the westernised son, clean-shaven, more friendly, who now does all the customer work. Hmm.
It's a genuine dilemma.
Here, say in gas stations, I nearly always ask people who are clearly not US-born where there accent is from and then, once they state a country, ask which town. If I've been there, I say so and make some compliment about the place. It's amazing how that opens the door to conversation.
In Africa, it is easy. You just ask them which Premier League team they support. If you know little bit about the London and Merseyside teams, you'll be ok!
Although they are so football mad, I did once watch Crewe Alexandra, live in a pizzeria in Equatorial Guinea....0 -
He wouldn't be reporting a crime, but his suspicions. Do it, Sean. You may have no idea what's on that audio or how to distinguish between a risk and a change in religiosity, but there are men and women working for the authorities who do. Tell them and let them get on with it. (They may already have had a look anyway.)nunu said:
Report the son for what growing a long beard? Did the Manchester bomber have a long beard and wear traditional clothes? No. Actually most (all?) of the bombers in Britain have NOT been like this.Pulpstar said:
Report the son to the authorities, you don't need to let the family know you did so. But the spooks need to get him on their watch list it sounds to me - the pros can handle things after you've reported your suspicions.SeanT said:Here's a very relevant modern-day dilemma, PB
I have a Muslim dry-cleaner, here in Camden. The patriarch and his sons run the shop, sometimes I see the daughters helping out. They've always been quite amiable, but they always maintain a distance. They aren't chatty. There is perhaps a hint of disdain for the Kaffir clientele, but that could just be me being paranoid. They clean my shirts very well. We all smile politely.
ANYWAY in recent months the family has changed. One of the sons has grown a VERY long beard and now dresses traditionally. He doesn't talk to me or any customers any more. The cowed and obedient daughters have disappeared entirely. Sometimes when I walk in the patriarch is playing videos on his iPhone which sound - to my ears - like ranting preachers. But it is in Arabic so I have no idea whether it is hate preaching, or just impassioned devotion. He hastily turns it off when I walk in.
Clearly this family has become more conservatively religious. But are they showing signs of being radicalised? My British instinct, my London instinct, is to shrug my shoulders and let them get on with their lives. Live and let live.
But what if that is wrong thing to do? Maybe I should mention to the police that this family is worth watching? Or is that a ludicrous waste of police time, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?0 -
-
-
-
I presume it is this guy...isam said:twitter.com/noramulready/status/867461892150788096
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nottingham_Two0 -
I'd get another Muslim involved if possible at first.SeanT said:
Not your greatest.TheScreamingEagles said:
Personally if I were you, I'd say 'I've been shagging some 20 something Corbynites, I've got some tips about shagging 72 virgins, are you're interested?'SeanT said:
If he says yes, then call the hotline.
But seriously, you're a kinda Muslim (I mean that in the nicest way!) - what would YOU do? My strong and natural instinct, as I've said, is to ignore it. But a small voice says, Wait...
Surely you must have seen other Muslim customers there? If you have, perhaps they share the same observations/concerns as you, and ask them?
If not, then call the hotline, it might be the right thing to do, say if their local mosque has also contacted them as well (like the mosque of the Manc terrorist did) two red flags might do it.
If any Muslim family that I knew had changed like you have said, I'd have concerns too.0 -
Somewhere in Manchester tonight there is probably someone thinking-perhaps i should have said something.SeanT said:
lol. Yes, I am well aware the convo might go that way and I will feel and look like an idiot, along with having the guilt of "snitching" on a perfectly polite, if taciturn family, who have done me zero harm, and are my fellow British citizens.nunu said:
What exactly are you reporting? That they have become more religiosly conservative.SeanT said:
Interesting. 99% of me is inclined the other way. What business is it of mine what they believe? They are unfailingly polite. They've done nothing to annoy or harm or even irritate me. It seems and feels wrong to report any of them. I also have no concrete eye-witness evidence of anything.steve_garner said:
If you have suspicions you should report them.SeanT said:Here's a very relevant modern-day dilemma, PB
I have a, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?
And yet, after Manchester...
Hmm.
SeanT: Hello I would like to report my suspicions of a muslim family please.
Call handeler: OK, go ahead what are your suspicions.
Seant: Well there's this family that own a laundrette, they have become more conservative the son has grown a beard, a really long one. and the daughters are not there anymore, oh and the dad/grandad listens to some really scary sounding Arabic........em I'm really worried about them.....
Callhandler: OK.....em what is the dad/grandad listening to?
SeanT: I'm not sure but it sounds really scary it's really shouty.
Callhandler: OK Thank you for your call, your concerns have been noted. Good bye.
Call the anti-terror hotline if you want to the the police won't pay them a visit but they will be watched for a bit, but we must be careful not to be paranoid.
There must be thousands of non-Muslim Brits wrestling with this kind of dilemma right now, across the country. At what point do you overcome your natural and admirable British urge to live and let live, and say OK, this is slightly alarming.
Listening to Today this morning i was struck by how his neighbours all seemed to be able to identify an issue that was "different" about him in the run up to the attack-yet it was clear none had called it in.
22 are now dead
For the security services to be really effective , someone somewhere needs to tip them off.
Call it in.0 -
There is a high probability that MI5 have an Arabic speaking agent who lives vaguely in your area. If you report it and they think it might be something, they'll probably send someone to pop in with some dry cleaning as a first step. Who knows you might end up doing your dry-cleaner a favour and get him an extra customer?SeanT said:An intriguing range of opinions on PB. From WTF Do Nothing to Report It Now, and all stations between.
Shukran.
0 -
Depends how paranoid you wish to be. As any organic chemist will tell you, dry cleaning fluid (perchloroethylene), when heated to 600 F with oxygen, yields phosgene. Phosgene would make for an excellent weapon of mass destruction in a confines space such as a tube station.SeanT said:Here's a very relevant modern-day dilemma, PB
I have a Muslim dry-cleaner, here in Camden. The patriarch and his sons run the shop, sometimes I see the daughters helping out. They've always been quite amiable, but they always maintain a distance. They aren't chatty. There is perhaps a hint of disdain for the Kaffir clientele, but that could just be me being paranoid. They clean my shirts very well. We all smile politely.
ANYWAY in recent months the family has changed. One of the sons has grown a VERY long beard and now dresses traditionally. He doesn't talk to me or any customers any more. The cowed and obedient daughters have disappeared entirely. Sometimes when I walk in the patriarch is playing videos on his iPhone which sound - to my ears - like ranting preachers. But it is in Arabic so I have no idea whether it is hate preaching, or just impassioned devotion. He hastily turns it off when I walk in.
Clearly this family has become more conservatively religious. But are they showing signs of being radicalised? My British instinct, my London instinct, is to shrug my shoulders and let them get on with their lives. Live and let live.
But what if that is wrong thing to do? Maybe I should mention to the police that this family is worth watching? Or is that a ludicrous waste of police time, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?
Apart from the big dry cleaning machines, have you observed anything that looks like an oxygen injected furnace in the back of the shop? If you have, call them in.
Alternatively, maybe they're a bit stand-offish because they have to clean the stains from your clothes. Which, I imagine, might be, at best 'haram'.0 -
You could break the ice by asking him is views on the Alternative Vote system.SeanT said:
Ta.
And thanks to everyone for all the advice. It's an interesting contemporary dilemma.
Think I'm gonna take MTimT's advice, and just try chatting with them. And if I still feel this odd but incoherent disquiet, then ring the hotline.
0 -
If that doesn't work, how about best first class airport lounge...RobD said:
You could break the ice by asking him is views on the Alternative Vote system.SeanT said:
Ta.
And thanks to everyone for all the advice. It's an interesting contemporary dilemma.
Think I'm gonna take MTimT's advice, and just try chatting with them. And if I still feel this odd but incoherent disquiet, then ring the hotline.0 -
I would remind myself you're a writer of fiction and scroll on to the next post.SeanT said:Here's a very relevant modern-day dilemma, PB
I have a Muslim dry-cleaner, here in Camden. The patriarch and his sons run the shop, sometimes I see the daughters helping out. They've always been quite amiable, but they always maintain a distance. They aren't chatty. There is perhaps a hint of disdain for the Kaffir clientele, but that could just be me being paranoid. They clean my shirts very well. We all smile politely.
ANYWAY in recent months the family has changed. One of the sons has grown a VERY long beard and now dresses traditionally. He doesn't talk to me or any customers any more. The cowed and obedient daughters have disappeared entirely. Sometimes when I walk in the patriarch is playing videos on his iPhone which sound - to my ears - like ranting preachers. But it is in Arabic so I have no idea whether it is hate preaching, or just impassioned devotion. He hastily turns it off when I walk in.
Clearly this family has become more conservatively religious. But are they showing signs of being radicalised? My British instinct, my London instinct, is to shrug my shoulders and let them get on with their lives. Live and let live.
But what if that is wrong thing to do? Maybe I should mention to the police that this family is worth watching? Or is that a ludicrous waste of police time, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?0 -
Well done, calling the police before trying to talk to them would be wrong I feel. If we report every Asian man with a beard the polices phones will meltSeanT said:
Ta.RepublicanTory said:
For the security services to be really effective , someone somewhere needs to tip them off.SeanT said:
lol. Yes, I am well aware the convo might go that way and I will feel and look like an idiot, along with having the guilt of "snitching" on a perfectly polite, if taciturn family, who have done me zero harm, and are my fellow British citizens.nunu said:
What exactly are you reporting? That they have become more religiosly conservative.SeanT said:
Interesting. 99% of me is inclined the other way. What business is it of mine what they believe? They are unfailingly polite. They've done nothing to annoy or harm or even irritate me. It seems and feels wrong to report any of them. I also have no concrete eye-witness evidence of anything.steve_garner said:
If you have suspicions you should report them.SeanT said:Here's a very relevant modern-day dilemma, PB
I have a, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?
And yet, after Manchester...
Hmm.
SeanT: Hello I would like to report my suspicions of a muslim family please.
Call handeler: OK, go ahead what are your suspicions.
Seant: Well there's this family that own a laundrette, they have become more conservative the son has grown a beard, a really long one. and the daughters are not there anymore, oh and the dad/grandad listens to some really scary sounding Arabic........em I'm really worried about them.....
Callhandler: OK.....em what is the dad/grandad listening to?
SeanT: I'm not sure but it sounds really scary it's really shouty.
Callhandler: OK Thank you for your call, your concerns have been noted. Good bye.
Call the anti-terror hotline if you want to the the police won't pay them a visit but they will be watched for a bit, but we must be careful not to be paranoid.
There must be thousands of non-Muslim Brits wrestling with this kind of dilemma right now, across the country. At what point do you overcome your natural and admirable British urge to live and let live, and say OK, this is slightly alarming.
Call it in.
And thanks to everyone for all the advice. It's an interesting contemporary dilemma.
Think I'm gonna take MTimT's advice, and just try chatting with them. And if I still feel this odd but incoherent disquiet, then ring the hotline.
The thing to do is see if anythings changed the next time you go in after broaching the subject.
0 -
OT - other stories that may shake up the agenda after campaigning resumes: the decision on Thanet South is due on or before June 1st0
-
When i first went to uni i was friends with someone but as time went by i started to feel uncomfortable about his attitude to women and other issues.SeanT said:
Yes, I WOULD hesitate to comment if a white British family suddenly changed. For exactly the same reasons. They are my fellow British citizens, and they have done nothing visibly wrong.isam said:
I was going to say - just ask them. No law against it. Say 'what's with the beard? Any holidays planned??' Wink winkSeanT said:
A good suggestion - if only they were chattier. It's very hard to get them to talk. They are reserved and uptight. And so are many Brits. It's not a crime.MTimT said:
There is ant says, for instance, I notice you are a conservative Muslim, and I am interested on your take on the Manchester attacks and how that event may affect your and your family given your visible signs of IslamSeanT said:
Another thing I've noticed is a slight tension between the deeply religious son who has basically stopped serving customers - the guy with the long long beard - and the westernised son, clean-shaven, more friendly, who now does all the customer work. Hmm.
It's a genuine dilemma.
You wouldn't hesitate to comment if a white British family suddenly changed, so why not in this situation?
I just have a vague disquiet, and I don't know if that is remotely enough reason " to go to the police".
I had a "disquiet" about the situation-so i drifted away from him.
I said nothing
In my second year he raped a girl
In truth i wasn't shocked to hear he did it.
The fact you have raised the question means you have doubts-call it in
90% chance it is nothing.
But that is someone elses call -not yours.
0 -
You are Tina Buckley and I claim my £5.Cyan said:So...a big incident between Britain and the US. And the BBC reports the response from the mayor of Manchester. I don't want to hear the damned mayor of Manchester. I want to hear mophead Johnson. Where is he? Might awarding him too much exposure damage Tory election chances? Or does his US citizenship give him a conflict of interest?
Seems that the publication of the photos in the NYT was designed to swamp the earlier naming issue.
I withdraw my support for Theresa May's decision to give an increased role to the army. It's typical of the people who run Britain: in times of trouble, let's all think of the royal family. Buckingham Palace is already protected by the army, and by Israeli software. Soldiers should be sent to shopping centres, transport hubs, football matches, and other entertainment events.
Is even a single newspaper asking how Ramadan Abedi managed to get into the foyer and explode the bomb?
Who did the security? Were all the security staff SIA approved? Is there any involvement of gangsters in security at the Manchester Arena? (And is the Pope Catholic?)
Talking of Israel...while no decent person respects the right of that Nazi-style ethnic supremacist regime to exist, it has to be recognised that security at such events on territory controlled by that regime is far superior to security in Britain.0 -
Even if it is merely a hypothetical scenario it is not worth considering the issues? No obligation to of course even if you think it is 100% true or 100% false, but without meaning to White Knight Sean, who can certainly handle himself, what does his occupation matter?Bromptonaut said:
I would remind myself you're a writer of fiction and scroll on to the next post.SeanT said:Here's a very relevant modern-day dilemma, PB
I have a Muslim dry-cleaner, here in Camden. The patriarch and his sons run the shop, sometimes I see the daughters helping out. They've always been quite amiable, but they always maintain a distance. They aren't chatty. There is perhaps a hint of disdain for the Kaffir clientele, but that could just be me being paranoid. They clean my shirts very well. We all smile politely.
ANYWAY in recent months the family has changed. One of the sons has grown a VERY long beard and now dresses traditionally. He doesn't talk to me or any customers any more. The cowed and obedient daughters have disappeared entirely. Sometimes when I walk in the patriarch is playing videos on his iPhone which sound - to my ears - like ranting preachers. But it is in Arabic so I have no idea whether it is hate preaching, or just impassioned devotion. He hastily turns it off when I walk in.
Clearly this family has become more conservatively religious. But are they showing signs of being radicalised? My British instinct, my London instinct, is to shrug my shoulders and let them get on with their lives. Live and let live.
But what if that is wrong thing to do? Maybe I should mention to the police that this family is worth watching? Or is that a ludicrous waste of police time, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?
Sometimes we find some deep truths and insights through our stories. Factual or not often doesn't matter.0 -
How do feel about the GOP new "healthcare" plan. I guess it would benefit you overall, since you were hit by Obamacare. But surely this bill wont pass largely intact? It even guts provisions for people on *employer* plans.MTimT said:
I understand. But in my travels in the Middle East and Pakistan, I have found ways to engage very conservative people. It may take several smaller conversations before you can start talking about bigger issues. But finding a point of commonality is always a good starting point.SeanT said:
A good suggestion - if only they were chattier. It's very hard to get them to talk. They are reserved and uptight. And so are many Brits. It's not a crime.MTimT said:
There is an alternative route, Sean. Next time you are in with the old man, tell him that you have noticed that the family seems to be becoming more conservative, with beards, and sermons etc... Ask him, in a genuinely inquisitive way, about his religious beliefs and, if they have changed, what is driving it.
You are a human, a social being, a journalist and a novelist. You have every reason to be inquisitive and curious about the fellow human beings in your life, no matter how superficially they are there.
His answers might put your mind at ease, or make the decision to talk to security personnel more clear cut.
PS There are any number of different ways you could do this, if the above approach does not do it for you. You might says, for instance, I notice you are a conservative Muslim, and I am interested on your take on the Manchester attacks and how that event may affect your and your family given your visible signs of Islam
Another thing I've noticed is a slight tension between the deeply religious son who has basically stopped serving customers - the guy with the long long beard - and the westernised son, clean-shaven, more friendly, who now does all the customer work. Hmm.
It's a genuine dilemma.
Here, say in gas stations, I nearly always ask people who are clearly not US-born where there accent is from and then, once they state a country, ask which town. If I've been there, I say so and make some compliment about the place. It's amazing how that opens the door to conversation.
In Africa, it is easy. You just ask them which Premier League team they support. If you know little bit about the London and Merseyside teams, you'll be ok!
(How is your wife? I hope she is doing well).0 -
Post truth post.kle4 said:
Even if it is merely a hypothetical scenario it is not worth considering the issues? No obligation to of course even if you think it is 100% true or 100% false, but without meaning to White Knight Sean, who can certainly handle himself, what does his occupation matter?Bromptonaut said:
I would remind myself you're a writer of fiction and scroll on to the next post.SeanT said:Here's a very relevant modern-day dilemma, PB
I have a Muslim dry-cleaner, here in Camden. The patriarch and his sons run the shop, sometimes I see the daughters helping out. They've always been quite amiable, but they always maintain a distance. They aren't chatty. There is perhaps a hint of disdain for the Kaffir clientele, but that could just be me being paranoid. They clean my shirts very well. We all smile politely.
ANYWAY in recent months the family has changed. One of the sons has grown a VERY long beard and now dresses traditionally. He doesn't talk to me or any customers any more. The cowed and obedient daughters have disappeared entirely. Sometimes when I walk in the patriarch is playing videos on his iPhone which sound - to my ears - like ranting preachers. But it is in Arabic so I have no idea whether it is hate preaching, or just impassioned devotion. He hastily turns it off when I walk in.
Clearly this family has become more conservatively religious. But are they showing signs of being radicalised? My British instinct, my London instinct, is to shrug my shoulders and let them get on with their lives. Live and let live.
But what if that is wrong thing to do? Maybe I should mention to the police that this family is worth watching? Or is that a ludicrous waste of police time, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?
Sometimes we find some deep truths and insights through our stories. Factual or not often doesn't matter.0 -
0
-
John Sessions is great on QI and Whose Line Is It Anyway?Scott_P said:0 -
Sean T -
My friend was on the Underground in March, heading from his workplace in central London. The commuter-time tube was packed and he was standing up down the aisle. He heard what sounded like gunfire coming from a fellow commuter's headphones. Looking down at the guy sat near him, he saw he was watching a violent movie scene on his mobile: a guy being shot in the head. Only on watching for a little while longer did my friend realise it was not Hollywood but in fact real life. The chap was watching Jihadi execution and recruitment videos via WhatsApp, flagrantly on a packed train. What to do?
Pretended to be reading his phone, my friend took pictures of the guy and informed a copper at his tube stop. The copper gave him his email address and asked him to send the details, which obviously he did. A few days later my friend gets a call from Counter Terrorism Police. One of the big questions is: did you note his make of mobile phone? Apparently this is really important in trying to track down suspects.
The CT plod thanked my friend and said something like "we live off these types of tip-offs."
The moral of the long story is: if in doubt, report it.0 -
Surely Fulham.bobajobPB said:
I hear Stoke City are popular in the Central African Republic.KentRising said:
Do many say Palace?! ;-)MTimT said:
I understand. But in my travels in the Middle East and Pakistan, I have found ways to engage very conservative people. It may take several smaller conversations before you can start talking about bigger issues. But finding a point of commonality is always a good starting point.SeanT said:
A good suggestion - if only they were chattier. It's very hard to get them to talk. They are reserved and uptight. And so are many Brits. It's not a crime.MTimT said:
There is an alternative route, Sean. Next time you are in with the old man, tell him that you have noticed that the family seems to be becoming more conservative, with beards, and sermons etc... Ask him, in a genuinely inquisitive way, about his religious beliefs and, if they have changed, what is driving it.
You are a human, a social being, a journalist and a novelist. You have every reason to be inquisitive and curious about the fellow human beings in your life, no matter how superficially they are there.
His answers might put your mind at ease, or make the decision to talk to security personnel more clear cut.
PS There are any number of different ways you could do this, if the above approach does not do it for you. You might says, for instance, I notice you are a conservative Muslim, and I am interested on your take on the Manchester attacks and how that event may affect your and your family given your visible signs of Islam
Another thing I've noticed is a slight tension between the deeply religious son who has basically stopped serving customers - the guy with the long long beard - and the westernised son, clean-shaven, more friendly, who now does all the customer work. Hmm.
It's a genuine dilemma.
Here, say in gas stations, I nearly always ask people who are clearly not US-born where there accent is from and then, once they state a country, ask which town. If I've been there, I say so and make some compliment about the place. It's amazing how that opens the door to conversation.
In Africa, it is easy. You just ask them which Premier League team they support. If you know little bit about the London and Merseyside teams, you'll be ok!0 -
I asked for it to be added at the last minute as we hadn't had an AV thread for a while...kjh said:RobD thanks for the reply on the previous thread - appreciated.
I'm wondering why it (2nd pref to fptp) is in the manifesto. It raises issues on voting systems which will be debated again and which for the time being were completely dead and for types of elections where it is pretty impossible to put up an argument for fptp.
Just asking for trouble where none was present.0 -
I don't know what you mean. I was making the point that we explore ideas and feelings through fiction, so even if the specific scenario Sean raised is not a true one, the issues raised and our reactions to it can be relevant, rather than just dismissing it because you assume the facts are not true. Obviously if the situation is a real one, the facts of the situation are highly relevant to any actual action taken, but in terms of a bunch of strangers debating political and social issues on the internet, a plausible scenario as a vector to feel out people's thoughts on the issue is just as useful whether it is true or not.Bromptonaut said:
Post truth post.kle4 said:
Even if it is merely a hypothetical scenario it is not worth considering the issues? No obligation to of course even if you think it is 100% true or 100% false, but without meaning to White Knight Sean, who can certainly handle himself, what does his occupation matter?Bromptonaut said:
I would remind myself you're a writer of fiction and scroll on to the next post.SeanT said:Here's a very relevant modern-day dilemma, PB
I have a Muslim dry-cleaner, here in Camden. The patriarch and his sons run the shop, sometimes I see the daughters helping out. They've always been quite amiable, but they always maintain a distance. They aren't chatty. There is perhaps a hint of disdain for the Kaffir clientele, but that could just be me being paranoid. They clean my shirts very well. We all smile politely.
ANYWAY in recent months the family has changed. One of the sons has grown a VERY long beard and now dresses traditionally. He doesn't talk to me or any customers any more. The cowed and obedient daughters have disappeared entirely. Sometimes when I walk in the patriarch is playing videos on his iPhone which sound - to my ears - like ranting preachers. But it is in Arabic so I have no idea whether it is hate preaching, or just impassioned devotion. He hastily turns it off when I walk in.
Clearly this family has become more conservatively religious. But are they showing signs of being radicalised? My British instinct, my London instinct, is to shrug my shoulders and let them get on with their lives. Live and let live.
But what if that is wrong thing to do? Maybe I should mention to the police that this family is worth watching? Or is that a ludicrous waste of police time, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?
Sometimes we find some deep truths and insights through our stories. Factual or not often doesn't matter.0 -
You didn't, though, did you...?Bromptonaut said:
I would remind myself you're a writer of fiction and scroll on to the next post.SeanT said:Here's a very relevant modern-day dilemma, PB
I have a Muslim dry-cleaner, here in Camden. The patriarch and his sons run the shop, sometimes I see the daughters helping out. They've always been quite amiable, but they always maintain a distance. They aren't chatty. There is perhaps a hint of disdain for the Kaffir clientele, but that could just be me being paranoid. They clean my shirts very well. We all smile politely.
ANYWAY in recent months the family has changed. One of the sons has grown a VERY long beard and now dresses traditionally. He doesn't talk to me or any customers any more. The cowed and obedient daughters have disappeared entirely. Sometimes when I walk in the patriarch is playing videos on his iPhone which sound - to my ears - like ranting preachers. But it is in Arabic so I have no idea whether it is hate preaching, or just impassioned devotion. He hastily turns it off when I walk in.
Clearly this family has become more conservatively religious. But are they showing signs of being radicalised? My British instinct, my London instinct, is to shrug my shoulders and let them get on with their lives. Live and let live.
But what if that is wrong thing to do? Maybe I should mention to the police that this family is worth watching? Or is that a ludicrous waste of police time, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?0 -
We've had SeanT the journalist, SeanT the writer, now we have SeanT the spy!0
-
More Austin Powers than 007 though?RobD said:We've had SeanT the journalist, SeanT the writer, now we have SeanT the spy!
0 -
You must used veiled language of the sort Pinker talks about here around 10:50SeanT said:
Fascinating. Yes I would definitely report a guy blatantly and publicly watching ISIS execution and recruitment vids on a train.KentRising said:Sean T -
My friend was on the Underground in March, heading from his workplace in central London. The commuter-time tube was packed and he was standing up down the aisle. He heard what sounded like gunfire coming from a fellow commuter's headphones. Looking down at the guy sat near him, he saw he was watching a violent movie scene on his mobile: a guy being shot in the head. Only on watching for a little while longer did my friend realise it was not Hollywood but in fact real life. The chap was watching Jihadi execution and recruitment videos via WhatsApp, flagrantly on a packed train. What to do?
Pretended to be reading his phone, my friend took pictures of the guy and informed a copper at his tube stop. The copper gave him his email address and asked him to send the details, which obviously he did. A few days later my friend gets a call from Counter Terrorism Police. One of the big questions is: did you note his make of mobile phone? Apparently this is really important in trying to track down suspects.
The CT plod thanked my friend and said something like "we live off these types of tip-offs."
The moral of the long story is: if in doubt, report it.
My situation is more nuanced, tho. I only have evidence of deeper religiosity, and islamic conservatism. That is significantly different and, prima facie, less alarming. "I do not wish to make windows into men's souls", as Elizabeth I said, in her greatness. Part of what makes England/Britain a marvellous country is that you are free to believe what you like. Just don't impose your beliefs on others.
"Snitching" on this family JUST coz they have become devoutly religious (as far as I can tell) feels wrong. UnBritish.
I'm gonna talk to them. That's unBritish too, but less sneaky. Inshallah they will tell me about their son's recent boozy stag do in Prague, and all will be well.
https://youtu.be/LjQM8PzCEY00 -
Both were successful in foiling the bad guys!TheScreamingEagles said:
More Austin Powers than 007 though?RobD said:We've had SeanT the journalist, SeanT the writer, now we have SeanT the spy!
0 -
Even 007 made sure they were over 21....TheScreamingEagles said:
More Austin Powers than 007 though?RobD said:We've had SeanT the journalist, SeanT the writer, now we have SeanT the spy!
0 -
George smiley ?RobD said:We've had SeanT the journalist, SeanT the writer, now we have SeanT the spy!
0 -
He won his fights too.TheScreamingEagles said:
More Austin Powers than 007 though?RobD said:We've had SeanT the journalist, SeanT the writer, now we have SeanT the spy!
0 -
GeorgeTykejohnno said:
George smiley ?RobD said:We've had SeanT the journalist, SeanT the writer, now we have SeanT the spy!
0 -
Aided somewhat by the bumbling baddies.. "begin the unnecessarily slow-moving dipping process!"kle4 said:
He won his fights too.TheScreamingEagles said:
More Austin Powers than 007 though?RobD said:We've had SeanT the journalist, SeanT the writer, now we have SeanT the spy!
0 -
If he's George Smiley then who's Bill Haydon?Tykejohnno said:
George smiley ?RobD said:We've had SeanT the journalist, SeanT the writer, now we have SeanT the spy!
0 -
Seany English.TheScreamingEagles said:
More Austin Powers than 007 though?RobD said:We've had SeanT the journalist, SeanT the writer, now we have SeanT the spy!
0 -
By next thread there will be talk of dead letter drops, Cousins and Mothers....Tykejohnno said:
George smiley ?RobD said:We've had SeanT the journalist, SeanT the writer, now we have SeanT the spy!
0 -
008 Sean T, not holding out a lot of hope for him avoiding the honey trap.0
-
Behold the scariest villain in all of fiction - the horribly slow murderer with the extremely inefficient weapon!RobD said:
Aided somewhat by the bumbling baddies.. "begin the unnecessarily slow-moving dipping process!"kle4 said:
He won his fights too.TheScreamingEagles said:
More Austin Powers than 007 though?RobD said:We've had SeanT the journalist, SeanT the writer, now we have SeanT the spy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y
(video is actually a bit too long, but that is kind of the point)0 -
All I can think about now is John Profumo.FrancisUrquhart said:008 Sean T, not holding out a lot of hope for him avoiding the honey trap.
0 -
They have access to a range of chemicals - it's difficult but I think its best to play it safe.SeanT said:
Yep, that's an issue.RobD said:
That's why we have the security services to make these judgements for us. I guess the only thing you should be worried about is would it be adding an unnecessary burden on them to investigate your concerns.SeanT said:
Interesting. 99% of me is inclined the other way. What business is it of mine what they believe? They are unfailingly polite. They've done nothing to annoy or harm or even irritate me. It seems and feels wrong to report any of them. I also have no concrete eye-witness evidence of anything.steve_garner said:
If you have suspicions you should report them.SeanT said:Here's a very relevant modern-day dilemma, PB
I have a Muslim dry-cleaner, here in Camden. The patriarch and his sons run the shop, sometimes I see the daughters helping out. They've always been quite amiable, but they always maintain a distance. They aren't chatty. There is perhaps a hint of disdain for the Kaffir clientele, but that could just be me being paranoid. They clean my shirts very well. We all smile politely.
ANYWAY in recent months the family has changed. One of the sons has grown a VERY long beard and now dresses traditionally. He doesn't talk to me or any customers any more. The cowed and obedient daughters have disappeared entirely. Sometimes when I walk in the patriarch is playing videos on his iPhone which sound - to my ears - like ranting preachers. But it is in Arabic so I have no idea whether it is hate preaching, or just impassioned devotion. He hastily turns it off when I walk in.
Clearly this family has become more conservatively religious. But are they showing signs of being radicalised? My British instinct, my London instinct, is to shrug my shoulders and let them get on with their lives. Live and let live.
But what if that is wrong thing to do? Maybe I should mention to the police that this family is worth watching? Or is that a ludicrous waste of police time, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?
And yet, after Manchester...
Hmm.0 -
On topic.
A poor headline and not related to reality.
How many people blown to bits? How young? How utterly pointless. Why is it some sort of victory for bombers if we only get back to real campaigning on Friday?
Its not as if this campaign has not been going on for like forever already. Is it asking too much? The election has not been deferred. Democracy has not been cowed. We are decent humane and noble.
Maybe if the depraved became commonplace things would be different. But that would raise a new set of questions.
0 -
Sean,SeanT said:
Fascinating. Yes I would definitely report a guy blatantly and publicly watching ISIS execution and recruitment vids on a train.KentRising said:Sean T -
My friend was on the Underground in March, heading from his workplace in central London. The commuter-time tube was packed and he was standing up down the aisle. He heard what sounded like gunfire coming from a fellow commuter's headphones. Looking down at the guy sat near him, he saw he was watching a violent movie scene on his mobile: a guy being shot in the head. Only on watching for a little while longer did my friend realise it was not Hollywood but in fact real life. The chap was watching Jihadi execution and recruitment videos via WhatsApp, flagrantly on a packed train. What to do?
Pretended to be reading his phone, my friend took pictures of the guy and informed a copper at his tube stop. The copper gave him his email address and asked him to send the details, which obviously he did. A few days later my friend gets a call from Counter Terrorism Police. One of the big questions is: did you note his make of mobile phone? Apparently this is really important in trying to track down suspects.
The CT plod thanked my friend and said something like "we live off these types of tip-offs."
The moral of the long story is: if in doubt, report it.
My situation is more nuanced, tho. I only have evidence of deeper religiosity, and islamic conservatism. That is significantly different and, prima facie, less alarming. "I do not wish to make windows into men's souls", as Elizabeth I said, in her greatness. Part of what makes England/Britain a marvellous country is that you are free to believe what you like. Just don't impose your beliefs on others.
"Snitching" on this family JUST coz they have become devoutly religious (as far as I can tell) feels wrong. UnBritish.
I'm gonna talk to them. That's unBritish too, but less sneaky. Inshallah they will tell me about their son's recent boozy stag do in Prague, and all will be well.
You are responsible only for your own actions. If you report, a discreet visit will be made by some member of the "community" on the pretext of cleaning some clothes. A conversation will ensue, in Arabic. Most likely there is nothing to worry about. If he is doing his job well, the shopkeeper will be none the wiser that he has been surveilled. Result, you can sleep easy.
If you don't report, most likely nothing will happen, other than your niggly doubts. But if it did it will haunt you for your days. Money and sex won't rid you of your guilt.
ps. this a very London problem.I leave at least 5 minutes conversation time for each shop I regularly visit!0 -
Ryan Coetze?another_richard said:On a different topic the last few years has seen some of the most inept campaigns in British electoral history:
2011 YEStoAV
2015 LibDem
2016 Remain
2017 LibDem
Is there anybody who played a leading part in all four running disasters ?0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
More Austin Powers than 007 though?RobD said:We've had SeanT the journalist, SeanT the writer, now we have SeanT the spy!
0 -
Having read the story in the Telegraph about missed chances.
Must say respect to the Mosque and others in muslim community who reported him.
0 -
Haha I love him but you might have his weak spot thereSeanT said:
Pinker is frighteningly smart. A daunting dinner party neighbour. I reckon if he was sat next to me I'd go on and on about kinky sex, maybe the one, solitary area where he might be less well informed.isam said:
You must used veiled language of the sort Pinker talks about here around 10:50SeanT said:
Fascinating. Yes I would definitely report a guy blatantly and publicly watching ISIS execution and recruitment vids on a train.KentRising said:Sean T -
My friend was on the Underground in March, heading from his workplace in central London. The commuter-time tube was packed and he was standing up down the aisle. He heard what sounded like gunfire coming from a fellow commuter's headphones. Looking down at the guy sat near him, he saw he was watching a violent movie scene on his mobile: a guy being shot in the head. Only on watching for a little while longer did my friend realise it was not Hollywood but in fact real life. The chap was watching Jihadi execution and recruitment videos via WhatsApp, flagrantly on a packed train. What to do?
Pretended to be reading his phone, my friend took pictures of the guy and informed a copper at his tube stop. The copper gave him his email address and asked him to send the details, which obviously he did. A few days later my friend gets a call from Counter Terrorism Police. One of the big questions is: did you note his make of mobile phone? Apparently this is really important in trying to track down suspects.
The CT plod thanked my friend and said something like "we live off these types of tip-offs."
The moral of the long story is: if in doubt, report it.
My situation is more nuanced, tho. I only have evidence of deeper religiosity, and islamic conservatism. That is significantly different and, prima facie, less alarming. "I do not wish to make windows into men's souls", as Elizabeth I said, in her greatness. Part of what makes England/Britain a marvellous country is that you are free to believe what you like. Just don't impose your beliefs on others.
"Snitching" on this family JUST coz they have become devoutly religious (as far as I can tell) feels wrong. UnBritish.
I'm gonna talk to them. That's unBritish too, but less sneaky. Inshallah they will tell me about their son's recent boozy stag do in Prague, and all will be well.
https://youtu.be/LjQM8PzCEY0
Thoughts on Sids garb at 6:13?
https://youtu.be/LfrOZj6EBRI0 -
The Militant Wing of the Salvation Army!RobD said:
Aided somewhat by the bumbling baddies.. "begin the unnecessarily slow-moving dipping process!"kle4 said:
He won his fights too.TheScreamingEagles said:
More Austin Powers than 007 though?RobD said:We've had SeanT the journalist, SeanT the writer, now we have SeanT the spy!
0 -
I find something almost hypnotic listening to very clear and well expressed recitation of somewhat complex ideas.isam said:
You must used veiled language of the sort Pinker talks about here around 10:50SeanT said:
Fascinating. Yes I would definitely report a guy blatantly and publicly watching ISIS execution and recruitment vids on a train.KentRising said:Sean T -
My friend was on the Underground in March, heading from his workplace in central London. The commuter-time tube was packed and he was standing up down the aisle. He heard what sounded like gunfire coming from a fellow commuter's headphones. Looking down at the guy sat near him, he saw he was watching a violent movie scene on his mobile: a guy being shot in the head. Only on watching for a little while longer did my friend realise it was not Hollywood but in fact real life. The chap was watching Jihadi execution and recruitment videos via WhatsApp, flagrantly on a packed train. What to do?
Pretended to be reading his phone, my friend took pictures of the guy and informed a copper at his tube stop. The copper gave him his email address and asked him to send the details, which obviously he did. A few days later my friend gets a call from Counter Terrorism Police. One of the big questions is: did you note his make of mobile phone? Apparently this is really important in trying to track down suspects.
The CT plod thanked my friend and said something like "we live off these types of tip-offs."
The moral of the long story is: if in doubt, report it.
My situation is more nuanced, tho. I only have evidence of deeper religiosity, and islamic conservatism. That is significantly different and, prima facie, less alarming. "I do not wish to make windows into men's souls", as Elizabeth I said, in her greatness. Part of what makes England/Britain a marvellous country is that you are free to believe what you like. Just don't impose your beliefs on others.
"Snitching" on this family JUST coz they have become devoutly religious (as far as I can tell) feels wrong. UnBritish.
I'm gonna talk to them. That's unBritish too, but less sneaky. Inshallah they will tell me about their son's recent boozy stag do in Prague, and all will be well.
https://youtu.be/LjQM8PzCEY00 -
BOACTheScreamingEagles said:
All I can think about now is John Profumo.FrancisUrquhart said:008 Sean T, not holding out a lot of hope for him avoiding the honey trap.
0 -
That's one way of looking at it, but others may, and I would, take the view from the other direction - why is it somehow unrealistic, unreasonable or even an affront to those tragically lost to do what we always lie to ourselves and pretend we will do: get on with our lives, despite the tragedy?TMA1 said:On topic.
A poor headline and not related to reality.
How many people blown to bits? How young? How utterly pointless. Why is it some sort of victory for bombers if we only get back to real campaigning on Friday?
It surely wouldn't be, therefore best to proceed.0 -
Yes, honestly when I need to relax now I listen to well expressed logic rather than music, it's v therapeutic #sadkle4 said:
I find something almost hypnotic listening to very clear and well expressed recitation of somewhat complex ideas.isam said:
You must used veiled language of the sort Pinker talks about here around 10:50SeanT said:
Fascinating. Yes I would definitely report a guy blatantly and publicly watching ISIS execution and recruitment vids on a train.KentRising said:Sean T -
My friend was on the Underground in March, heading from his workplace in central London. The commuter-time tube was packed and he was standing up down the aisle. He heard what sounded like gunfire coming from a fellow commuter's headphones. Looking down at the guy sat near him, he saw he was watching a violent movie scene on his mobile: a guy being shot in the head. Only on watching for a little while longer did my friend realise it was not Hollywood but in fact real life. The chap was watching Jihadi execution and recruitment videos via WhatsApp, flagrantly on a packed train. What to do?
Pretended to be reading his phone, my friend took pictures of the guy and informed a copper at his tube stop. The copper gave him his email address and asked him to send the details, which obviously he did. A few days later my friend gets a call from Counter Terrorism Police. One of the big questions is: did you note his make of mobile phone? Apparently this is really important in trying to track down suspects.
The CT plod thanked my friend and said something like "we live off these types of tip-offs."
The moral of the long story is: if in doubt, report it.
My situation is more nuanced, tho. I only have evidence of deeper religiosity, and islamic conservatism. That is significantly different and, prima facie, less alarming. "I do not wish to make windows into men's souls", as Elizabeth I said, in her greatness. Part of what makes England/Britain a marvellous country is that you are free to believe what you like. Just don't impose your beliefs on others.
"Snitching" on this family JUST coz they have become devoutly religious (as far as I can tell) feels wrong. UnBritish.
I'm gonna talk to them. That's unBritish too, but less sneaky. Inshallah they will tell me about their son's recent boozy stag do in Prague, and all will be well.
https://youtu.be/LjQM8PzCEY0
Clever people swearing is funny
https://youtu.be/1BcdY_wSklo0 -
Checkout what 'love' is made up of... ch4 didn't show it apparentlySeanT said:
OMFG. lol but UGH. How has this fucking hideous garment become acceptable in everyday life, such that it is just normal in a TV interview?isam said:
Haha I love him but you might have his weak spot thereSeanT said:
d go on and on about kinky sex, maybe the one, solitary area where he might be less well informed.isam said:
You must used veiled language of the sort Pinker talks about here around 10:50SeanT said:
Fascinating. Yes I would definitely report a guy blatantly and publicly watching ISIS execution and recruitment vids on a train.KentRising said:Sean T -
My friend was on the Underground in March, heading from his workplace in central London. The commuter-time tube was packed and he was standing up down the aisle. He heard what sounded like gunfire coming from a fellow commuter's headphones. Looking down at the guy sat near him, he saw he was watching a violent movie scene on his mobile: a guy being shot in the head. Only on watching for a little while longer did my friend realise it was not Hollywood but in fact real life. The chap was watching Jihadi execution and recruitment videos via WhatsApp, flagrantly on a packed train. What to do?
Pretended to be reading his phone, my friend took pictures of the guy and informed a copper at his tube stop. The copper gave him his email address and asked him to send the details, which obviously he did. A few days later my friend gets a call from Counter Terrorism Police. One of the big questions is: did you note his make of mobile phone? Apparently this is really important in trying to track down suspects.
The CT plod thanked my friend and said something like "we live off these types of tip-offs."
The moral of the long story is: if in doubt, report it.
My situation is more nuanced, tho. I only have evidence of deeper religiosity, and islamic conservatism. That is significantly different and, prima facie, less alarming. "I do not wish to make windows into men's souls", as Elizabeth I said, in her greatness. Part of what makes England/Britain a marvellous country is that you are free to believe what you like. Just don't impose your beliefs on others.
"Snitching" on this family JUST coz they have become devoutly religious (as far as I can tell) feels wrong. UnBritish.
I'm gonna talk to them. That's unBritish too, but less sneaky. Inshallah they will tell me about their son's recent boozy stag do in Prague, and all will be well.
https://youtu.be/LjQM8PzCEY0
Thoughts on Sids garb at 6:13?
https://youtu.be/LfrOZj6EBRI
Our forefathers, and foremothers, not least the Manchester suffragettes, would gaze at us with incredulity and contempt.0
