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  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,953
    Sean_F said:

    Viewed another way, that would the fourth election in a row in which the number of Labour seats fell.
    Definitely! But if you were hoping for a rout that kicked Labour out of power for a generation and delivered an indisputable rejection of hard left politics for all to see, this election is turning out to be a bit of a disappointment.
  • RestharrowRestharrow Posts: 233

    Carrington was the last to resign under the doctrine of ministerial responsibility - ie, when your department screws up in a big way, you take the bullet, even if it wasn't your fault.

    Cook's resignation was brought about by a different doctrine, collective responsibility - he couldn't continue as a member of government whose policy he couldn't support.

    Different convention in each case.

    Honourable men, both.

    Edit: I should of course have added that plenty of departmental screw ups have happened since 1982 but for some reason ministers haven't felt the same need to do the honourable thing.
    Yes
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,130
    Bugger, most motorcycle racers are good guys, and he was definitely one of them.

    http://reports-tv.com/ex-motogp-champion-nicky-hayden-is-dead-breaking-news/
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,814

    The IFS is wrong about this. It presupposes that the problem is an insurance problem necessarily requiring extensive coverage. But there is no evidence that the public wants more than safety net coverage. It's seeking to force comprehensive insurance on people that apparently only want to pay for third party, fire and theft.
    Voters are coming to this cold. Government needs to sell the populace on a bargain with the basic question, Do you want or might you need social care? The answer presumably is, yes. So then it's a question of how it gets paid for. The government offers you co-funding as well as a cap. Does that sound like a deal? It needs detailed thought, which I am not convinced the government has given it. But it also needs time as people understand what's on offer.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:
    Are "business" going to pay for the schools and housing required to support this figure ? Or pay tax in Luxembourg as per usual.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Scott_P said:
    And most of that is in Pret A Manger.
  • ConcanvasserConcanvasser Posts: 165

    Yes, according to Michael Crick's great biography of Heseltine, he stood in 1955 in the (then) safe Labour seat of Gower as a "National Liberal and Conservative."

    Fascinating organisation, the National Liberals, a legacy of the pre-war split in the traditional Liberal Party. In the early 1950s, they were a significant Parliamentary force with 19 MPs.
    One of their number, Lloyd George's son Gwilym, even served as Home Secretary in Churchill's last Government. A former Liberal himself, Churchill liked the Conservative alliance with them because he felt it kept the Liberal name alive within the Toryism. But by the late 1960s, the National Liberals were wholly subsumed within the Conservative Party. Interestingly, their last chairman was the corrupt architect John Poulson, who used the group as a vehicle for developing political contacts.
    Fascinating. Are you the Leo M who writes in the Mail quote a bit? If so I enjoy your articles (along with Robert Hardman and Quentin Letts).

    I was delighted to see the Con Manifesto headed "Conservative and Unionist". When was the last time we stood as that?

    I sincerely hope to see Conservative & Unionist on ballot papers in every part of the UK in the future.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,647
    felix said:

    I personally expected a 50+ majority from day 1. It will be enough. If Brexit is a disaster no matter what the majority the Tories will get the blame and be thrown out. In fact like most things in politics it will end up meh and everyone will move on.
    I started at 60-100, moved up to 70-120 and am now probably back at 60-100. 50 would of course be a lot better than now and would nullify the Cash, JRM, Redwood group.

    First off I doubt whether anyone will notice that Brexit is a failure. It is (my) oft-quoted 5p on beer and fags in the budget. People are worse off but most won't notice or care. If they do notice, TMay will of course blame Europe, together with the other parties for not supporting her every move (it was of course a main motivation, we were told, for holding the early GE). As Lab haven't really come out for leaving or for staying, they will be pushed to capitalise on it all.

    That said, by 2020 we will have had 10 years of a Cons govt one way or another and people might be fed up regardless.
  • JonWCJonWC Posts: 289
    PaulM said:

    I remember a PBer from the south west once claiming that the SW LibDem voters were a lot more Eurosceptic than LibDems elsewhere and that a fair proportion voted UKIP or its predecessors in Euro Parliament elections.
    Not just the voters. A surprising number of members confidentially told me they voted UKIP in 2009.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited May 2017
    https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/865553683387367425

    Hope the arsehole has been paying his fair dues in child support.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,133

    That's a Conservative manifesto commitment:

    "As the majority of care is informally provided, mainly by families, we will give workers a new statutory entitlement to carer’s leave, as enjoyed in other countries."

    It's an excellent idea.
    Yes, I think so too. If either of my parents suffer from dementia, I am not sure I would want strangers looking after them in any case. My Grandad was treated disgracefully in a care home that we had to sell his house to pay for in the 90s, so we have been burned already. Couldn't put my folks through that
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    isam said:

    Haven't been following/don't understand the "dementia tax" debate, but it seems to me that we should look after our parents the way that they looked after us when we couldn't fend for ourselves. The moral way would be to take time out and tend to them.

    Didn't TM the PM unveil a policy recently that an employee with a sick relative could take a lot of time off to look after them? This should cover Parents w dementia

    Yes.

    In the last year or so the Tories have sanctioned a 2% Social Care Surcharge on council tax bills, pledged £2bn additional funding in the last budget and have committed to workers' rights to Statutory Carer's Leave.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,647
    edited May 2017
    kle4 said:

    Oh, I have long thought if he faced a shellacking he would, despite statements to the contrary, stand down for fear of provoking a split...but if he does get that many votes, which will save some number of seats, then I fully expect he will stay on with that as his defence, and the others will be too cowed by his relative out performance to split.
    Well hold on, if he does get that number of votes then why shouldn't he stay on? He can say that Brexit was a unique set of circumstances, that the party was in the middle of a reorganisation, and that people had just given him a mandate to complete the move leftwards.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,814
    felix said:

    Not sure that is a relevant question at this stage. you just have to suck it up.
    Yeah, I know. Rhetorical. Nicola Sturgeon was very popular in Scotland for losing an independence referendum. Theresa May is popular for pursuing somewhat incompetently a third best option after Brexit. Quite similar really.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited May 2017

    https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/865553683387367425

    Hope the arsehole has been paying his fair dues in child support.

    LOL! Self-imposed exile after running from justice isn't "Detained" by any definition of the word. Idiot.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,400

    Fascinating. Are you the Leo M who writes in the Mail quote a bit? If so I enjoy your articles (along with Robert Hardman and Quentin Letts).

    I was delighted to see the Con Manifesto headed "Conservative and Unionist". When was the last time we stood as that?

    I sincerely hope to see Conservative & Unionist on ballot papers in every part of the UK in the future.
    Officially, it's been the Conservative & Unionist Party since 1912!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,384
    New thread.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,316
    Sandpit said:

    LOL! Self-imposed exile after running from justice isn't "Detained" by any definition of the word. Idiot.
    According to the UN it is. Idiots.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,316
    TOPPING said:

    Well hold on, if he does get that number of votes then why shouldn't he stay on? He can say that Brexit was a unique set of circumstances, that the party was in the middle of a reorganisation, and that people had just given him a mandate to complete the move leftwards.
    That was my point - he will have a legitimate justification for saying he should stay on if he does that well, and because he did that (relative) well, his opponents won't dare split.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,316
    TGOHF said:
    I'd like if she lost. But she won't.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,967
    NUOVO THREAD
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,430

    NEW THREAD

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,065
    TGOHF said:

    Are "business" going to pay for the schools and housing required to support this figure ? Or pay tax in Luxembourg as per usual.
    Don't foreign workers pay income tax?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,400
    Is it Carington or Carrington?
  • Fascinating. Are you the Leo M who writes in the Mail quote a bit? If so I enjoy your articles (along with Robert Hardman and Quentin Letts).

    I was delighted to see the Con Manifesto headed "Conservative and Unionist". When was the last time we stood as that?

    I sincerely hope to see Conservative & Unionist on ballot papers in every part of the UK in the future.
    The same. Thank you for your kind words.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449

    Here's an endorsement I doubt the Conservatives were expecting:

    https://twitter.com/ev_bartlett/status/865598008729141248

    Strong, Stable and So Solid
  • FF43 said:
    Not been Corbyn, Cameron or Clegg.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/865553683387367425

    Hope the arsehole has been paying his fair dues in child support.

    Since he detained himself that's a lot of self loathing..
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,420
    rcs1000 said:

    Don't foreign workers pay income tax?
    I suspect that the foreign workers who, for example, wash cars don't pay income tax.

    Rather the opposite in fact.
This discussion has been closed.