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SystemSystem Posts: 12,598
edited May 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB/Polling Matters podcast: Discussing today’s GfK / Business Insider survey results

On this week’s PB/Polling Matters podcast Keiran is joined by Adam Bienkov and Adam Payne from Business Insider UK to discuss today’s GfK/Business Insider poll results.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    First!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    Given Corbyn's ratings are starting from such a poor place, imagine how bad they will be in five years once those still believing the dream have woken up.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    FPT:
    murali_s said:

    We just don't know. Everyone is talking about the Labour share in the polls being overestimated - what if the polls are actually UNDER ESTIMATING the Labour share by applying an out-dated methodology? I think we truly don't know...

    Not that I am optimsitic - my betting position is based on L 160, T 400+.

    From recent research by Populus:

    1. The current support base for both Tories and Labour is comprised primarily (about 75%) of their 2015 voters. In the Tories' case their VI has shot up so much that this represents the large bulk of their support under Cameron; in Labour's case they've suffered significant attrition.
    2. Tory support is skewed particularly towards pensioners, a large cohort who vote religiously. Labour support is skewed particularly towards 18-24 year olds, a small cohort at least half of whom would rather go down the pub or stay in bed.
    3. Of the roughly 1 in 4 supporters of each party who did not vote for them in 2015, most of the additional Tory voters are Ukip defectors, who have a proven track record of voting. Most of the additional Labour voters are people who voted neither in the previous election nor in the EU referendum, and who therefore have a proven track record of not voting.

    In addition:

    4. ICM, who continue to report Labour consistently at under 30%, have effectively accused other companies of not weighting turnout properly. There is also good reason to suppose that at least some of the pollsters are also incorrectly weighting by 2015 turnout, and are under-counting the Lib Dems and over-counting Labour in their final figures.
    5. We ought also to remember that there is a fairly consistent trend in the polls, as seen for example in 2015, of the companies under-reporting the Conservatives and over-reporting Labour - a stubborn problem that they seem to have trouble solving.

    In short, Labour is bleeding its previous supporters and reliant on the young and previous non-voters - the most unreliable sections of the electorate - to plug the gaps. The Tories are holding on to their existing support and have very strong backing both from previous Ukip voters, and from the elderly - the section of the electorate most likely to vote. Whilst one cannot be 100% certain that the polls are skewed against rather than in favour of Labour, I'd say that another polling fail, with Labour falling short of expectations, is a possibility we should consider very seriously.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    Can I just say I would have won the PB fantasy football league but for the selections this week by Conte and Mourinho.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,316
    I added GfK to the Wikipedia Opinion Polling table :)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    FPT
    Black_Rook said:

    On the strategic brilliance of Tim Farron:

    https://twitter.com/debmattinson/status/864591691675820036

    The Remainers with the right strategy are Grieve, Soubry, Clarke, Morgan, Osborne et al. Now is not the time...

    The big unknown is which game Theresa May is playing.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    4th or worse, like the horses I bet on. LOL
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,316
    Populus haven't had a poll in yonks, neither have BMG.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    'Problem with the Labour brand' - and yet they're on 33% in one poll. Better than the LD brand!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Populus haven't had a poll in yonks, neither have BMG.

    BMG are Labour's private pollsters.

    I suspect we won't be getting any public polls from them.

    People might read too much into them.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,316
    edited May 2017
    Oh yeah, forgot to mention GfK had fieldwork end-date of the 14th, so they actually belong to last week's ELBOW. Updated for GfK: 
    	        Con	Lab	LD	UKIP	Tory Lead
    23-Apr-17	45.5	26.1	10.4	8.6	19.4
    30-Apr-17	46.3	28.1	10.2	6.7	18.2
    07-May-17	47.1	28.5	9.4	6.4	18.6
    14-May-17	47.2	30.0	9.0	5.3	17.2
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    One of the Adam's says Blair is skilled (true) but says his pro-Remain message is effective, but can he get a hearing? Which means it hasn't been effective, as it hasn't been heard. What they mean is they think it is a good message, not that it is effective.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,316
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Populus haven't had a poll in yonks, neither have BMG.

    BMG are Labour's private pollsters.

    I suspect we won't be getting any public polls from them.

    People might read too much into them.
    Oh didn't realise. Their last poll in the Wiki list was in October.

    Have Populus gone the way of Angus-Reid?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,000
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    edited May 2017
    'No LD surge'! That's putting it mildly! People just keep expecting them to outperform pools, it isn't happening, it won;t happen now. If they go backwards they are dead. If they stay still it's a longtime in wilderness. They need some forward momentum, however slight.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Populus haven't had a poll in yonks, neither have BMG.

    BMG are Labour's private pollsters.

    I suspect we won't be getting any public polls from them.

    People might read too much into them.
    Oh didn't realise. Their last poll in the Wiki list was in October.

    Have Populus gone the way of Angus-Reid?
    Populus are still around.

    I believe they do the fieldwork for Crosby-Textor, who are the private pollsters for the Tories.

    Again people might read too much into their polls.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,316
    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    She is a PMILF strategic genius - slaughtering UKIP from the right, and mopping up Labour (and the LDs for that matter) from the left.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Populus haven't had a poll in yonks, neither have BMG.

    BMG are Labour's private pollsters.

    I suspect we won't be getting any public polls from them.

    People might read too much into them.
    Oh didn't realise. Their last poll in the Wiki list was in October.

    Have Populus gone the way of Angus-Reid?
    They're very much alive, although I couldn't tell you why they aren't polling themselves at the moment.

    The election research I referenced down-thread was an analysis of the Lord Ashcroft data:

    http://elections.newstatesman.com/the-650/profile-of-a-landslide-where-the-tories-are-gaining-and-labour-losing/
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    This was an interesting piece on Mrs May's politics, and what to expect:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/864718635708944384

    Imagine a country led by the Daily Mail, and you are not too far from the depressing truth.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    She's the Ted Heath de nos jours.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,378
    edited May 2017
    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    Yes, very distressing times for a small state Conservative. We've finally been able to dump the EU and it's protectionism and over regulation only for it to be replaced by Westminster. :/
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,316
    Black_Rook said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Populus haven't had a poll in yonks, neither have BMG.

    BMG are Labour's private pollsters.

    I suspect we won't be getting any public polls from them.

    People might read too much into them.
    Oh didn't realise. Their last poll in the Wiki list was in October.

    Have Populus gone the way of Angus-Reid?
    They're very much alive, although I couldn't tell you why they aren't polling themselves at the moment.

    The election research I referenced down-thread was an analysis of the Lord Ashcroft data:

    http://elections.newstatesman.com/the-650/profile-of-a-landslide-where-the-tories-are-gaining-and-labour-losing/
    Oh yeah, forgot about Lord Ashcroft's polls!
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    kle4 said:

    'No LD surge'! That's putting it mildly! People just keep expecting them to outperform pools, it isn't happening, it won;t happen now. If they go backwards they are dead. If they stay still it's a longtime in wilderness. They need some forward momentum, however slight.

    Even if they were to recover some from here they are starting from a lower base than 4 weeks ago. The LDs have always had a good postal operatiin so they need to recover very quickly or they will be out of the game in the constituecies they are targeting.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,316
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Populus haven't had a poll in yonks, neither have BMG.

    BMG are Labour's private pollsters.

    I suspect we won't be getting any public polls from them.

    People might read too much into them.
    Oh didn't realise. Their last poll in the Wiki list was in October.

    Have Populus gone the way of Angus-Reid?
    Populus are still around.

    I believe they do the fieldwork for Crosby-Textor, who are the private pollsters for the Tories.

    Again people might read too much into their polls.
    I stand corrected :)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    edited May 2017
    Sh*t, is this behind all my problems?

    Bad sleeps makes you look 'significantly' more ugly

    Dark-circled "panda" eyes and puffy lids can even put others off socialising with you, they say.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39933232
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,000
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    She is a PMILF strategic genius - slaughtering UKIP from the right, and mopping up Labour (and the LDs for that matter) from the left.
    I think you are giving her a lot of credit because everyone else is committing suicide around about her. She is simply last one standing.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/864949438531461129

    Can only assume that May won't let this drop in order to keep the Ukip defectors on board.
  • RepublicanToryRepublicanTory Posts: 563
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    Depends which elements of the Free market she is "attacking" / dealing with.

    The Conservatives have for too long been the Party of BIG business-if May is tackling market abuse and dominance by the big companies with a corresponding boost for small companies then i would be very pleased to see that.

    But i suspect i will be underwhelmed by what is actually on offer.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    May is playing the One Nation Conservative card but only to a point. The calculation is fairly easy to work out, the Conservative base isn't going anywhere because the alternative is so poor so its land and expand on new territory.

    Bear in mind that UKIP base is not exactly economically to the right, nor is the shaky Labour voters who can't abide Corbyn but might just sit at home rather than shift. If May coaxes them out here, its big win territory.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,084
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Black_Rook said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Populus haven't had a poll in yonks, neither have BMG.

    BMG are Labour's private pollsters.

    I suspect we won't be getting any public polls from them.

    People might read too much into them.
    Oh didn't realise. Their last poll in the Wiki list was in October.

    Have Populus gone the way of Angus-Reid?
    They're very much alive, although I couldn't tell you why they aren't polling themselves at the moment.

    The election research I referenced down-thread was an analysis of the Lord Ashcroft data:

    http://elections.newstatesman.com/the-650/profile-of-a-landslide-where-the-tories-are-gaining-and-labour-losing/
    Oh yeah, forgot about Lord Ashcroft's polls!
    Doesn't Lord Ashcroft use the established pollsters to carry out his ground work?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,378
    RepublicanTory said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    Depends which elements of the Free market she is "attacking" / dealing with.

    The Conservatives have for too long been the Party of BIG business-if May is tackling market abuse and dominance by the big companies with a corresponding boost for small companies then i would be very pleased to see that.

    But i suspect i will be underwhelmed by what is actually on offer.
    Energy cap. It's awful policy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    Black_Rook said:

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/864949438531461129

    Can only assume that May won't let this drop in order to keep the Ukip defectors on board.

    Seems terrified of losing them prior to the vote, some sensible policy drops retained as a result.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,316
    kle4 said:

    Sh*t, is this behind all my problems?

    Bad sleeps makes you look 'significantly' more ugly

    Dark-circled "panda" eyes and puffy lids can even put others off socialising with you, they say.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39933232

    "Those pandas you sold me. They won't mate. They just walk around eating and not mating. You sold me... queer pandas. I want my money back!"
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,316
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    She's the Ted Heath de nos jours.
    Ted Heath wot took us into Europe? :lol:
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    kle4 said:

    Sh*t, is this behind all my problems?

    Bad sleeps makes you look 'significantly' more ugly

    Dark-circled "panda" eyes and puffy lids can even put others off socialising with you, they say.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39933232

    "Those pandas you sold me. They won't mate. They just walk around eating and not mating. You sold me... queer pandas. I want my money back!"
    Panda homophobic!

    What's wrong with panda gay sex?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,250
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    She's the Ted Heath de nos jours.
    She thinks there is a bureaucratic solution to every social problem.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,348
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    She's the Ted Heath de nos jours.
    Pity Carswell left the Kippers. A genuinely free marketeer UKIP could have survived as opposition on May's right flank. Too late now.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Trumpton

    FBI now leaking that there was unusual interference with the investigation into Trump campaign ties to Russian state and criminal entities.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,084
    Black_Rook said:

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/864949438531461129

    Can only assume that May won't let this drop in order to keep the Ukip defectors on board.

    Tories = UKIP.

    Dog whistle politics is back!
  • RepublicanToryRepublicanTory Posts: 563
    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    The state is part of the solution because the only way you will break up the dominant market players is through Govt action.

    A true market economy needs the state to deal with market abuse-Tories should be actively seeking the state to deal with these abuses.

    SME's are the drivers of innovation job creation and growth-not big business.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/864949591778758656
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,942
    edited May 2017
    murali_s said:

    Black_Rook said:

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/864949438531461129

    Can only assume that May won't let this drop in order to keep the Ukip defectors on board.

    Tories = UKIP.

    Dog whistle politics is back!
    Tories = UKIP?

    Tories = One Nation Heath?

    Tories = Blue Labour?

    ALL ground is being covered! What a brilliant strategy lol!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Y0kel said:

    Trumpton

    FBI now leaking that there was unusual interference with the investigation into Trump campaign ties to Russian state and criminal entities.

    https://twitter.com/urbanachievr/status/864647151271510018
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    I see in the Aberdeen Council with the suspended Labour councillors, of 4 LD councillors elected one has already left to become Indy.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-39940006
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    And the grief I got when I suggested Theresa May was a Butskellite.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Scott_P said:

    Y0kel said:

    Trumpton

    FBI now leaking that there was unusual interference with the investigation into Trump campaign ties to Russian state and criminal entities.

    https://twitter.com/urbanachievr/status/864647151271510018
    And even that isn't the angle I referred top in the previous thread.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/timespictures/status/864953369567297539
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,668
    Sheffield-Huddersfield penalty shootout.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @SamCoatesTimes: Plus new deficit rules, scrapping universal free school lunches and getting rid of tax lock in tonight's Times twitter.com/timespictures/…
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    AlastairMeeks said:

    And the grief I got when I suggested Theresa May was a Butskellite.

    I agreed with you.
  • RepublicanToryRepublicanTory Posts: 563
    MaxPB said:

    RepublicanTory said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    Depends which elements of the Free market she is "attacking" / dealing with.

    The Conservatives have for too long been the Party of BIG business-if May is tackling market abuse and dominance by the big companies with a corresponding boost for small companies then i would be very pleased to see that.

    But i suspect i will be underwhelmed by what is actually on offer.
    Energy cap. It's awful policy.
    Agreed-it does nothing to break up an obvious Oligopoly
    Does next to nothing to encourage innovation
    and nothing to encourage new entrants.

    As i said-i expect to be underwhelmed.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/864949591778758656

    What will Priti Patel say about that?

    https://twitter.com/vote_leave/status/733018241484922880
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    LD manifesto out, and the papers still lead on Tory promises from a manifesto not out yet (is it?)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Y0kel said:

    And even that isn't the angle I referred top in the previous thread.

    :smiley:
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,000
    RepublicanTory said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    The state is part of the solution because the only way you will break up the dominant market players is through Govt action.

    A true market economy needs the state to deal with market abuse-Tories should be actively seeking the state to deal with these abuses.

    SME's are the drivers of innovation job creation and growth-not big business.
    There is a role for the State in setting the rules and the dimensions of the playing field. But she wants to go a lot further than that. I think she is suspicious of freedom and cautious about innovation. Things can always be worse.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Black_Rook said:

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/864949438531461129

    Can only assume that May won't let this drop in order to keep the Ukip defectors on board.

    Isn't this like the 3rd time of asking by the Tories.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    Sounds like it will be interesting - still plenty of 'cut this, cut that' so a much harsher sounding manifesto, but the Labour one was too far in the opposite direction. LD one read as fairly realistic.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,864
    Bit depressed by what I hear about the Tory manifesto tomorrow.

    But, I shall wait and see.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,000
    foxinsoxuk said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    This was an interesting piece on Mrs May's politics, and what to expect:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/864718635708944384

    Imagine a country led by the Daily Mail, and you are not too far from the depressing truth.
    Goes a bit too far, especially towards the end, but I recognise a fair bit of it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,316
    Scott_P said:

    Y0kel said:

    Trumpton

    FBI now leaking that there was unusual interference with the investigation into Trump campaign ties to Russian state and criminal entities.

    https://twitter.com/urbanachievr/status/864647151271510018
    "Oh, yes. What was it you said to me before? Yippee ki-yay... mother-f****r!"
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,942
    kle4 said:

    LD manifesto out, and the papers still lead on Tory promises from a manifesto not out yet (is it?)

    Lib-Dems want to stop Brexit... What else is there to say about their manifesto?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,984
    DavidL said:

    RepublicanTory said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    The state is part of the solution because the only way you will break up the dominant market players is through Govt action.

    A true market economy needs the state to deal with market abuse-Tories should be actively seeking the state to deal with these abuses.

    SME's are the drivers of innovation job creation and growth-not big business.
    There is a role for the State in setting the rules and the dimensions of the playing field. But she wants to go a lot further than that. I think she is suspicious of freedom and cautious about innovation. Things can always be worse.
    Only a different variant of what has gone before.

    And what will come after.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    DavidL said:

    RepublicanTory said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    The state is part of the solution because the only way you will break up the dominant market players is through Govt action.

    A true market economy needs the state to deal with market abuse-Tories should be actively seeking the state to deal with these abuses.

    SME's are the drivers of innovation job creation and growth-not big business.
    There is a role for the State in setting the rules and the dimensions of the playing field. But she wants to go a lot further than that. I think she is suspicious of freedom and cautious about innovation. Things can always be worse.
    May is a dullard, pure and simple. She wants a Britain cloyed by mediocrity, piousness and conformity. She is a curtain-twitching meddler with no time for creativity, metropolitan attitudes or unorthodox lives.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Hard luck BJO
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,942
    bobajobPB said:

    DavidL said:

    RepublicanTory said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    The state is part of the solution because the only way you will break up the dominant market players is through Govt action.

    A true market economy needs the state to deal with market abuse-Tories should be actively seeking the state to deal with these abuses.

    SME's are the drivers of innovation job creation and growth-not big business.
    There is a role for the State in setting the rules and the dimensions of the playing field. But she wants to go a lot further than that. I think she is suspicious of freedom and cautious about innovation. Things can always be worse.
    May is a dullard, pure and simple. She wants a Britain cloyed by mediocrity, piousness and conformity. She is a curtain-twitching meddler with no time for creativity, metropolitan attitudes or unorthodox lives.
    And an impending landslide majority...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,668
    FPT, my favourite Trump story of the day...
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-trip-idUSKCN18D0C7
    National Security Council officials have strategically included Trump's name in "as many paragraphs as we can because he keeps reading if he's mentioned," according to one source, who relayed conversations he had with NSC officials....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    edited May 2017
    GIN1138 said:

    kle4 said:

    LD manifesto out, and the papers still lead on Tory promises from a manifesto not out yet (is it?)

    Lib-Dems want to stop Brexit... What else is there to say about their manifesto?
    They can't stop it even if they wanted, so it's worth looking if any other ideas are decent, even if it is to see if the others pinch their ideas at some point.

    I won't burden this thread by reposing my summaries of each section of the manifesto from the last thread.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    kle4 said:

    Sh*t, is this behind all my problems?

    Bad sleeps makes you look 'significantly' more ugly

    Dark-circled "panda" eyes and puffy lids can even put others off socialising with you, they say.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39933232

    "Those pandas you sold me. They won't mate. They just walk around eating and not mating. You sold me... queer pandas. I want my money back!"
    Panda homophobic!

    What's wrong with panda gay sex?
    Not so much 50 shades of grey, it's more of a black and white issue.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,864
    AlastairMeeks said:

    And the grief I got when I suggested Theresa May was a Butskellite.

    Who gave you grief?

    I don't remember that.
  • RepublicanToryRepublicanTory Posts: 563
    DavidL said:

    RepublicanTory said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    The state is part of the solution because the only way you will break up the dominant market players is through Govt action.

    A true market economy needs the state to deal with market abuse-Tories should be actively seeking the state to deal with these abuses.

    SME's are the drivers of innovation job creation and growth-not big business.
    There is a role for the State in setting the rules and the dimensions of the playing field. But she wants to go a lot further than that. I think she is suspicious of freedom and cautious about innovation. Things can always be worse.
    Yes i suspect you are probably correct.

    But May didn't write this on her own-Timothy was no doubt heavily involved and that is not a good thing- but others must have done as well.

    I actually agree with the idea that that the wealthier middle classes need to pay more for their care-BUT will they get value for money or is it (more likely) just a way of subsidising others??
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,984
    GIN1138 said:

    kle4 said:

    LD manifesto out, and the papers still lead on Tory promises from a manifesto not out yet (is it?)

    Lib-Dems want to stop Brexit... What else is there to say about their manifesto?
    I wonder if Norman Lamb had become LibDem leader whether they would be on 20% in the polls.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,316
    Casino_Royale said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    And the grief I got when I suggested Theresa May was a Butskellite.

    Who gave you grief?

    I don't remember that.
    What's a Butskellite?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,316
    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    kle4 said:

    LD manifesto out, and the papers still lead on Tory promises from a manifesto not out yet (is it?)

    Lib-Dems want to stop Brexit... What else is there to say about their manifesto?
    They can't stop it even if they wanted, so it's worth looking if any other ideas are decent, even if it is to see if the others pinch their ideas at some point.

    I won't burden this thread by reposing my summaries of each section of the manifesto from the last thread.
    But the Labour Manifesto is a laugh :lol:
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    bobajobPB said:

    DavidL said:

    RepublicanTory said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    The state is part of the solution because the only way you will break up the dominant market players is through Govt action.

    A true market economy needs the state to deal with market abuse-Tories should be actively seeking the state to deal with these abuses.

    SME's are the drivers of innovation job creation and growth-not big business.
    There is a role for the State in setting the rules and the dimensions of the playing field. But she wants to go a lot further than that. I think she is suspicious of freedom and cautious about innovation. Things can always be worse.
    May is a dullard, pure and simple. She wants a Britain cloyed by mediocrity, piousness and conformity. She is a curtain-twitching meddler with no time for creativity, metropolitan attitudes or unorthodox lives.
    The interesting speculation is who will lead the first attempted defenestration, and on what issue.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    another_richard said:

    GIN1138 said:

    kle4 said:

    LD manifesto out, and the papers still lead on Tory promises from a manifesto not out yet (is it?)

    Lib-Dems want to stop Brexit... What else is there to say about their manifesto?
    I wonder if Norman Lamb had become LibDem leader whether they would be on 20% in the polls.
    I think so.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    And the grief I got when I suggested Theresa May was a Butskellite.

    Who gave you grief?

    I don't remember that.
    What's a Butskellite?
    Hugh Gaitskell and Rab Butler, Labour Leader and prominent Tory from 50's/early 60's who were seen as having overlapping policies.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Can I just say I would have won the PB fantasy football league but for the selections this week by Conte and Mourinho.

    #fakenews

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,668
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    And the grief I got when I suggested Theresa May was a Butskellite.

    Who gave you grief?

    I don't remember that.
    What's a Butskellite?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-war_consensus
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    kle4 said:

    LD manifesto out, and the papers still lead on Tory promises from a manifesto not out yet (is it?)

    Lib-Dems want to stop Brexit... What else is there to say about their manifesto?
    They can't stop it even if they wanted, so it's worth looking if any other ideas are decent, even if it is to see if the others pinch their ideas at some point.

    I won't burden this thread by reposing my summaries of each section of the manifesto from the last thread.
    But the Labour Manifesto is a laugh :lol:
    It was more cluttered and harder to follow.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    GIN1138 said:

    bobajobPB said:

    DavidL said:

    RepublicanTory said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    The state is part of the solution because the only way you will break up the dominant market players is through Govt action.

    A true market economy needs the state to deal with market abuse-Tories should be actively seeking the state to deal with these abuses.

    SME's are the drivers of innovation job creation and growth-not big business.
    There is a role for the State in setting the rules and the dimensions of the playing field. But she wants to go a lot further than that. I think she is suspicious of freedom and cautious about innovation. Things can always be worse.
    May is a dullard, pure and simple. She wants a Britain cloyed by mediocrity, piousness and conformity. She is a curtain-twitching meddler with no time for creativity, metropolitan attitudes or unorthodox lives.
    And an impending landslide majority...
    Yep. So what? That has been certain since Corbyn and his army of deluded clowns took over her only viable opposition.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    edited May 2017
    May's Tories tag line should be "taking the worst policies from Labour and UKIP"...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,194
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Hard luck BJO

    Still on course for a promotion double in Chez Rentool!
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    And the grief I got when I suggested Theresa May was a Butskellite.

    Who gave you grief?

    I don't remember that.
    What's a Butskellite?
    A proper Conservative. None of this Gladstonian liberal crap. Super Mac.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,864
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    And the grief I got when I suggested Theresa May was a Butskellite.

    Who gave you grief?

    I don't remember that.
    What's a Butskellite?
    Rab Butler and Hugh Gaitskell.

    Post-war consensus politics of the 50s/early 60s around a mixed economy, one nation and state intervention.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-war_consensus
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,316
    Re: Butskellite

    Um, thanks everyone :)
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Hard luck BJO


    Yep, was rooting for Wednesday. Bad luck fella. Huddersfield cheated earlier in the season by playing a weakened team against Brum that probably sent Blackburn down, or could have relegated Forest. Not good to see them progress.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,864
    foxinsoxuk said:

    bobajobPB said:

    DavidL said:

    RepublicanTory said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    The state is part of the solution because the only way you will break up the dominant market players is through Govt action.

    A true market economy needs the state to deal with market abuse-Tories should be actively seeking the state to deal with these abuses.

    SME's are the drivers of innovation job creation and growth-not big business.
    There is a role for the State in setting the rules and the dimensions of the playing field. But she wants to go a lot further than that. I think she is suspicious of freedom and cautious about innovation. Things can always be worse.
    May is a dullard, pure and simple. She wants a Britain cloyed by mediocrity, piousness and conformity. She is a curtain-twitching meddler with no time for creativity, metropolitan attitudes or unorthodox lives.
    The interesting speculation is who will lead the first attempted defenestration, and on what issue.

    She won't be defenestered whilst she's riding high in the polls, and sorting Brexit.

    But, the Party will want her gone very soon after GE2022 if this is her philosophical approach.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,844
    In policy terms May is less Thatcher more Le Pen. To be clear, I don't mean that in a "she's a fascist" hyperbolic way. But look at the direction she is moving in, tough language on immigration while simultaneously moving leftwards on economic policy. If you strip out all the FN baggage and history and look purely at their manifesto, it was not a million miles from May, but obviously more extreme in both directions.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Casino_Royale said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    bobajobPB said:

    DavidL said:

    RepublicanTory said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    The state is part of the solution because the only way you will break up the dominant market players is through Govt action.

    A true market economy needs the state to deal with market abuse-Tories should be actively seeking the state to deal with these abuses.

    SME's are the drivers of innovation job creation and growth-not big business.
    There is a role for the State in setting the rules and the dimensions of the playing field. But she wants to go a lot further than that. I think she is suspicious of freedom and cautious about innovation. Things can always be worse.
    May is a dullard, pure and simple. She wants a Britain cloyed by mediocrity, piousness and conformity. She is a curtain-twitching meddler with no time for creativity, metropolitan attitudes or unorthodox lives.
    The interesting speculation is who will lead the first attempted defenestration, and on what issue.

    She won't be defenestered whilst she's riding high in the polls, and sorting Brexit.

    But, the Party will want her gone very soon after GE2022 if this is her philosophical approach.
    I thought you were over the moon about getting your party back from the Cameron/Osborne mafia?
  • PaulMPaulM Posts: 613
    DavidL said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    She is a PMILF strategic genius - slaughtering UKIP from the right, and mopping up Labour (and the LDs for that matter) from the left.
    I think you are giving her a lot of credit because everyone else is committing suicide around about her. She is simply last one standing.
    Worked for her in the Tory leadership election...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,194
    Casino_Royale said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    bobajobPB said:

    DavidL said:

    RepublicanTory said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    The state is part of the solution because the only way you will break up the dominant market players is through Govt action.

    A true market economy needs the state to deal with market abuse-Tories should be actively seeking the state to deal with these abuses.

    SME's are the drivers of innovation job creation and growth-not big business.
    There is a role for the State in setting the rules and the dimensions of the playing field. But she wants to go a lot further than that. I think she is suspicious of freedom and cautious about innovation. Things can always be worse.
    May is a dullard, pure and simple. She wants a Britain cloyed by mediocrity, piousness and conformity. She is a curtain-twitching meddler with no time for creativity, metropolitan attitudes or unorthodox lives.
    The interesting speculation is who will lead the first attempted defenestration, and on what issue.

    She won't be defenestered whilst she's riding high in the polls, and sorting Brexit.

    But, the Party will want her gone very soon after GE2022 if this is her philosophical approach.
    Nah, leadership challenge from Priti in the autumn!
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Z
    foxinsoxuk said:

    another_richard said:

    GIN1138 said:

    kle4 said:

    LD manifesto out, and the papers still lead on Tory promises from a manifesto not out yet (is it?)

    Lib-Dems want to stop Brexit... What else is there to say about their manifesto?
    I wonder if Norman Lamb had become LibDem leader whether they would be on 20% in the polls.
    I think so.
    If it were Tom Brake they would be on 3%
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,864
    Anyway, let's perhaps wait for the detail before getting too excited.

    On one thing I agree: the tide of public opinion on immigration must be turned and, even if that involves tough measures now to bring the numbers down, it will be better for a healthier public dialogue on how to manage and control it in the medium-long term.

    People must feel they can pull the levers.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    Casino_Royale said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    bobajobPB said:

    DavidL said:

    RepublicanTory said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    The state is part of the solution because the only way you will break up the dominant market players is through Govt action.

    A true market economy needs the state to deal with market abuse-Tories should be actively seeking the state to deal with these abuses.

    SME's are the drivers of innovation job creation and growth-not big business.
    There is a role for the State in setting the rules and the dimensions of the playing field. But she wants to go a lot further than that. I think she is suspicious of freedom and cautious about innovation. Things can always be worse.
    May is a dullard, pure and simple. She wants a Britain cloyed by mediocrity, piousness and conformity. She is a curtain-twitching meddler with no time for creativity, metropolitan attitudes or unorthodox lives.
    The interesting speculation is who will lead the first attempted defenestration, and on what issue.

    She won't be defenestered whilst she's riding high in the polls, and sorting Brexit.

    But, the Party will want her gone very soon after GE2022 if this is her philosophical approach.
    Had a chat last night with someone who was utterly convinced she will quit well before that. Reckons she'll serve three years, tops, then resign.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    bobajobPB said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    bobajobPB said:

    DavidL said:

    RepublicanTory said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    The state is part of the solution because the only way you will break up the dominant market players is through Govt action.

    A true market economy needs the state to deal with market abuse-Tories should be actively seeking the state to deal with these abuses.

    SME's are the drivers of innovation job creation and growth-not big business.
    There is a role for the State in setting the rules and the dimensions of the playing field. But she wants to go a lot further than that. I think she is suspicious of freedom and cautious about innovation. Things can always be worse.
    May is a dullard, pure and simple. She wants a Britain cloyed by mediocrity, piousness and conformity. She is a curtain-twitching meddler with no time for creativity, metropolitan attitudes or unorthodox lives.
    The interesting speculation is who will lead the first attempted defenestration, and on what issue.

    She won't be defenestered whilst she's riding high in the polls, and sorting Brexit.

    But, the Party will want her gone very soon after GE2022 if this is her philosophical approach.
    Had a chat last night with someone who was utterly convinced she will quit well before that. Reckons she'll serve three years, tops, then resign.
    Stop the presses! :D
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,316
    timmo said:

    Z

    foxinsoxuk said:

    another_richard said:

    GIN1138 said:

    kle4 said:

    LD manifesto out, and the papers still lead on Tory promises from a manifesto not out yet (is it?)

    Lib-Dems want to stop Brexit... What else is there to say about their manifesto?
    I wonder if Norman Lamb had become LibDem leader whether they would be on 20% in the polls.
    I think so.
    If it were Tom Brake they would be on 3%
    Make or Brake :lol:
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    Incredibly moving and heart-breaking documentary on ISIS by the historian Tom Holland on Channel 4.

    Well worth catching.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    RobD said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    bobajobPB said:

    DavidL said:

    RepublicanTory said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    The state is part of the solution because the only way you will break up the dominant market players is through Govt action.

    A true market economy needs the state to deal with market abuse-Tories should be actively seeking the state to deal with these abuses.

    SME's are the drivers of innovation job creation and growth-not big business.
    There is a role for the State in setting the rules and the dimensions of the playing field. But she wants to go a lot further than that. I think she is suspicious of freedom and cautious about innovation. Things can always be worse.
    May is a dullard, pure and simple. She wants a Britain cloyed by mediocrity, piousness and conformity. She is a curtain-twitching meddler with no time for creativity, metropolitan attitudes or unorthodox lives.
    The interesting speculation is who will lead the first attempted defenestration, and on what issue.

    She won't be defenestered whilst she's riding high in the polls, and sorting Brexit.

    But, the Party will want her gone very soon after GE2022 if this is her philosophical approach.
    Had a chat last night with someone who was utterly convinced she will quit well before that. Reckons she'll serve three years, tops, then resign.
    Stop the presses! :D
    :smiley:

    I know, just making chitchat.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    RobD said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    bobajobPB said:

    DavidL said:

    RepublicanTory said:

    DavidL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/864946261962756100

    May is a (nanny) Statist Tory. She genuinely believes that the State is likely to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. It's Tory Jim, but not as we know it.
    The state is part of the solution because the only way you will break up the dominant market players is through Govt action.

    A true market economy needs the state to deal with market abuse-Tories should be actively seeking the state to deal with these abuses.

    SME's are the drivers of innovation job creation and growth-not big business.
    There is a role for the State in setting the rules and the dimensions of the playing field. But she wants to go a lot further than that. I think she is suspicious of freedom and cautious about innovation. Things can always be worse.
    May is a dullard, pure and simple. She wants a Britain cloyed by mediocrity, piousness and conformity. She is a curtain-twitching meddler with no time for creativity, metropolitan attitudes or unorthodox lives.
    The interesting speculation is who will lead the first attempted defenestration, and on what issue.

    She won't be defenestered whilst she's riding high in the polls, and sorting Brexit.

    But, the Party will want her gone very soon after GE2022 if this is her philosophical approach.
    Had a chat last night with someone who was utterly convinced she will quit well before that. Reckons she'll serve three years, tops, then resign.
    Stop the presses! :D
    If you want a crazy unsubstantiated rumour, try this:

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/05/may-intends-appoint-liam-fox-chancellor/
This discussion has been closed.

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