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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 46,287
    Is there an expert Kremlin-watcher on here who can tell us whether the NEC can force a leadership election if the MPs have decided to organize a Brown-style acclamation as Mike has suggested?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    malcolmg said:

    LOL, only morons think Ruth is anything other than a great empty barrel. She will run out of animals to pose on for the tame right wing media. Southern Tories are easy pleased.

    In you more reflective moments as you gaze across the hallowed crops of revered turnips, what's your considered assessment for each party MP strength from Scotland after 8th June?
    Conservative 45, Lib Dem 4, Labour 3, SNP 7
    I think @malcolmg has sent you a case of Chateau Mouton Roth-Turnip and you've polished off the lot overnight ....
    Joking aside, my best guess would be Con 10, Lib Dem 3, Labour 2, SNP 44.
    Give or take a few here and there the evidence from 2015 and 2017 would seem to support those numbers. Unionist voters appear to be becoming more savvy as to which candidate is most likely to defeat the SNP candidate.

    That said the strength of the SNP remains compelling under FPTP.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Whilst the NHS are running XP, I thought the exploited vulnerability was in Word and was vulnerable on modern versions of OS.

    Thought the March patch Microsoft released was for Office and not Windows to rectify this.

    No, it's an exploit in SMB, the Windows file sharing mechanism which is why it spreads so easily. If one machine is compromised it shares itself to every other machine it can find
  • Is there an expert Kremlin-watcher on here who can tell us whether the NEC can force a leadership election if the MPs have decided to organize a Brown-style acclamation as Mike has suggested?

    All it would need is 86% of the PLP and MEPs to nominate one candidate, and we have a coronation.

    That's what happened with Brown.

    He got so many nominations that there weren't enough left for anyone else to meet the 15% nomination.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 15,251

    ydoethur said:

    Just to add, I remember how traumatic the 1992 defeat was the for the party - and this coming one will be far worse. It was the memory of the defeat two years earlier that meant that Blair was able to win the 1994 leadership election so easily.

    This time even the most stupid Corbynista must know they are in for the worst beating since Margaret d'Anjou turned her exhausted and outnumbered forces to face the rampaging Edward IV at Tewkesbury in 1471. They cannot believe that the apologist for terrorism is popular unless they are suffering from serious sight and hearing impediments.

    Of course, the revelation that everyone can see how loathsome they are will be a trauma for people who genuinely believe they are decent, always right and normal. Whether it will jerk them to reality is a different question. But a trauma like 1992? Can't see it.
    Re. your penultimate paragraph, self-awareness does not strike me as one of the most prominent qualities of the average Corbynista. 9 June will be the day everyone in the Party needs to wake up to reality.
    Yes, but there are reasons. Although many Corbynites do indeed have huge awareness issues, that comes from the fact that so many of them are keyboard warriors caught up in their own echo chamber. Those doing the canvassing, if reports are right, are still dominated by the pre-2015 membership and - at least in my area - they know full well the scale of their unpopularity.
    Yep.

    The level of delusion among Corbynistas is unbelievable. They can't understand how anyone could dislike or even be critical of Corbyn. I notice they NEVER acknowledge his controversial comments/associations, it's like they pretend it never happened and Jeremy is just a nice, kind man being bullied by the 'EVIL' Tory media. They see themselves as independent thinkers who haven't brought into the media 'lies.' They believe the BBC is some kind of right-wing organisation.

    It goes on and on.
    It's more that they align temselves with the oppressed as Corbyn has always done.

    Yesterday when I saw Boris saying if Trump wanted him to wipe his bottom it was the least he could do....I found myself thinking Corbyn really did have a point and when I was 18 those would be the only messages I would hear.

    Now I see a bigger picture and see someone who is prepared to put his own ambition ahead of a party that however flawed has it's heart much more in the right place than the Tories.
  • Told you for ages that all government I.T. should be done via Apple.

    You don't get this sort of stuff with Apple that you do with windows.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,020
    edited May 2017

    Scott_P said:

    The level of delusion among Corbynistas is unbelievable. They can't understand how anyone could dislike or even be critical of Corbyn. I notice they NEVER acknowledge his controversial comments/associations, it's like they pretend it never happened and Jeremy is just a nice, kind man being bullied by the 'EVIL' Tory media. They see themselves as independent thinkers who haven't brought into the media 'lies.' They believe the BBC is some kind of right-wing organisation.

    It goes on and on.

    Kevin Maguire claims Corbyn's historical support of the IRA is a smear
    LOL I always say that Corbyn and Trump supporters have a lot in common. Both groups have a ridiculous cult-like devotion to their leaders which means they feel they challenge facts.

    The most DELUSIONAL Corbynite by far is Paul Mason. My God.

    Paul Mason is not a Corbyn supporter. He is way more cynical than that:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/79840/jeremy-corbyn-supporter-paul-mason-says-labour

    He also has a journalism brand to maintain. This is predicated on the far left controlling Labour - Mason gets plenty of gigs on the back of that. When this comes to an end, his work dries up.

    As for Maguire, he is an extreme Labour party loyalist. ON 9th June he will be calling for Corbyn to stand down. You can et your bottom dollar on that.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 46,287

    Is there an expert Kremlin-watcher on here who can tell us whether the NEC can force a leadership election if the MPs have decided to organize a Brown-style acclamation as Mike has suggested?

    All it would need is 86% of the PLP and MEPs to nominate one candidate, and we have a coronation.

    That's what happened with Brown.

    He got so many nominations that there weren't enough left for anyone else to meet the 15% nomination.
    And that is sufficient? The NEC can't force a contest? I know they didn't in Brown's case, but maybe Len has had some minor rule changed since then.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 7,655
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:


    If it had just been the NHS it might have been more of an issue. But this attack has hit systems world wide. There is an argument that head counting doctors and nurses in the NHS has resulted in other equally important aspects of the service being neglected including its software. But who is going to argue that too much money was spent on doctors?

    I think Microsoft will see some serious reputational damage. While their support policy is logical on its own terms, ultimately it was their product and they failed to ensure basic protection for it.

    Microsoft issued a patch for this back in March. They said at time updating the software with new fix was "critical"

    https://securelist.com/blog/incidents/78351/wannacry-ransomware-used-in-widespread-attacks-all-over-the-world/
    As I say, their support policy is logical. However, Windows is no longer the must-have product. This incident will give people a good reason to go for something else than Windows.
    I can't think of anything braver than a Health Secretary who decided to migrate the NHS to Linux. Windows remains the must-have product, because 1. legacy systems 2. shortage of Linux techies 3. inertia.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Scott_P said:

    Whilst the NHS are running XP, I thought the exploited vulnerability was in Word and was vulnerable on modern versions of OS.

    Thought the March patch Microsoft released was for Office and not Windows to rectify this.

    No, it's an exploit in SMB, the Windows file sharing mechanism which is why it spreads so easily. If one machine is compromised it shares itself to every other machine it can find
    As an aside, Microsoft has now issued a patch for XP and other EOL versions of Windows.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 13,107
    edited May 2017
    Sean_F said:


    Joking aside, my best guess would be Con 10, Lib Dem 3, Labour 2, SNP 44.

    Possible, but I would say an ambitious number of Conservative seats from the SNP. It depends more on the predicted degree of Unionist tactical voting than any measurable swings to the Conservatives.

    Edit: I should also say that if there is that degree of generalised Unionist tactical voting it's possible the LIbs Dems and Labour could win one or two further seats.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 18,554
    I've had an email from Malwarebytes to say I'm covered for this infection with their Premium version (if your running the Malwarebytes free edition you aren't covered)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,826
    edited May 2017
    Roger said:

    Kippers in kilts update.

    Some nascent signs that the media worm is turning with regard to Ruthy.

    https://twitter.com/markmcdsnp/status/863183636262264836

    Of course it's no revelation that the SCons are happy to soak up the racist bigot vote, but they've become too complacent about doing it openly. Douce Unionist folk don't want to open their breakfast newspaper to news of councillors' manhoods or loonballs calling for politicians to be taken out.

    I think the people of the North East will be with dissident Skipper Buchan. Is it now illegal to criticize the partitionist occupation ?
    Retired skipper.
    Now he just spends his days posting on FB about the gays, dem Muslamics and asking people to take out Sturgeon.
    So a real Glaswegian
    He's a NE loon, but a big Rangers(newco) fan, so you could certainly say he has an affinity with a certain type of Glaswgian. Spooky how homogeneous the racist, homophobic, Islamophonic views of these people are.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,020
    Nigelb said:

    Yvette Cooper would be great news for the tories, she is insipid and bland. Its irrelevant who the leader is, the whole brand is tarnished.

    And you can add to that a wooden and patronising manner.

    None of which seems to have done May any harm.

    Yep - the next Labour leader is not going to be facing a superstar. And the next shadow cabinet will hardly be up against a team of titans. You only have to match your opponents. By not picking from a full team Labour is not doing that at the moment. Change that and you change the whole political dynamic.

  • Is there an expert Kremlin-watcher on here who can tell us whether the NEC can force a leadership election if the MPs have decided to organize a Brown-style acclamation as Mike has suggested?

    All it would need is 86% of the PLP and MEPs to nominate one candidate, and we have a coronation.

    That's what happened with Brown.

    He got so many nominations that there weren't enough left for anyone else to meet the 15% nomination.
    And that is sufficient? The NEC can't force a contest? I know they didn't in Brown's case, but maybe Len has had some minor rule changed since then.
    Nope. The court case confirmed it last year. In a leadership contest where the existing leader isn't standing you need to be nominated by 15% of the PLP/MEPs.

    If you can't get that 15% you can't stand.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 46,287

    Is there an expert Kremlin-watcher on here who can tell us whether the NEC can force a leadership election if the MPs have decided to organize a Brown-style acclamation as Mike has suggested?

    All it would need is 86% of the PLP and MEPs to nominate one candidate, and we have a coronation.

    That's what happened with Brown.

    He got so many nominations that there weren't enough left for anyone else to meet the 15% nomination.
    And that is sufficient? The NEC can't force a contest? I know they didn't in Brown's case, but maybe Len has had some minor rule changed since then.
    Nope. The court case confirmed it last year. In a leadership contest where the existing leader isn't standing you need to be nominated by 15% of the PLP/MEPs.

    If you can't get that 15% you can't stand.
    So Corbyn just refuses to resign and he is automatically in the ballot, even if 90% of the PLP vote for Yvette.

    Corbyn 'aint going anywhere, he is already campaigning in ultra-safe seats where his deluded supporters are based.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:


    As I have pointed out before, the recruitment and retention problems in staffing are getting worse, with record numbers of GP vacancies:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patients-wait-longer-as-gp-jobs-lie-vacant-cw88dshc7?shareToken=74a63508f3ea258d07901827bc4c5440

    Hospital specialities too:

    https://twitter.com/DrGrumble/status/862919041001938945

    I reckon this to be a bigger problem than funding.


    8% - equivalent to about c.5m people as a proportion of our population.

    So, on these staff numbers and whilst making zero efficiencies, we would be fully staffed on a population of 60-61m?

    You are Diane Abbott and I claim my £5.
    "Dr Stokes-Lampard added: “Workload in general practice is escalating — it has increased 16 per cent over the last seven years according to the latest research "

    The population has risen by 3m over the same period.


    Why stop there? Let's halve the population to make the NHS twice as good.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,991
    JackW said:

    malcolmg said:

    LOL, only morons think Ruth is anything other than a great empty barrel. She will run out of animals to pose on for the tame right wing media. Southern Tories are easy pleased.

    In you more reflective moments as you gaze across the hallowed crops of revered turnips, what's your considered assessment for each party MP strength from Scotland after 8th June?
    Labour 0 , Lib Dems 1 , Tories 4 , SNP 54.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 46,287

    Nigelb said:

    Yvette Cooper would be great news for the tories, she is insipid and bland. Its irrelevant who the leader is, the whole brand is tarnished.

    And you can add to that a wooden and patronising manner.

    None of which seems to have done May any harm.

    Yep - the next Labour leader is not going to be facing a superstar. And the next shadow cabinet will hardly be up against a team of titans. You only have to match your opponents. By not picking from a full team Labour is not doing that at the moment. Change that and you change the whole political dynamic.

    The next leaders job (assuming it is not another mad Corbynista) is to remove the hard left. It will take a Kinnock type character with real guts.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,822
    Roger said:



    Yesterday when I saw Boris saying if Trump wanted him to wipe his bottom it was the least he could do....I found myself thinking Corbyn really did have a point and when I was 18 those would be the only messages I would hear.

    HUH? Link???

    If Corbyn really cared about the Labour party he'd stand down.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,020

    Is there an expert Kremlin-watcher on here who can tell us whether the NEC can force a leadership election if the MPs have decided to organize a Brown-style acclamation as Mike has suggested?

    Only conference can change the nomination rules. So if ther eis only one candidate for the leadership, that is that.

    More interesting will be what rules the NEC puts in place if there is a contested election. This is where loss of union support could really hurt Corbyn if he does stand again - the £3 membership could be wiped away, too; as could rules about other affiliates voting. Along with the six month membership qualification, that would really hurt him.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Told you for ages that all government I.T. should be done via Apple.

    You don't get this sort of stuff with Apple that you do with windows.

    Because nobody uses Apple computers so why bother hacking them.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,991

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    matt said:

    I'd don't think that she'd be a bad opposition leader although her record as a minister is mixed and perhaps looks adequate only in the rear view mirror.

    However, I'd point to the phrase, "growing consensus" in the article. Perhaps this time it's different but I've always taken that to mean no consensus other than in the mind of the person which hopes to be the beneficiary of such consensus.

    She is total and utter crap, as said before if she is the answer then labour is dead.
    That was ( is ) your opinion of Ruth Davidson. So we can say your opinion is worthless.
    LOL, only morons think Ruth is anything other than a great empty barrel. She will run out of animals to pose on for the tame right wing media. Southern Tories are easy pleased.
    Salmond on toast for tea tonight

    Might add some pickled Sturgeon
    Just send the cash now , save the trepidation
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 99,406
    edited May 2017

    Is there an expert Kremlin-watcher on here who can tell us whether the NEC can force a leadership election if the MPs have decided to organize a Brown-style acclamation as Mike has suggested?

    All it would need is 86% of the PLP and MEPs to nominate one candidate, and we have a coronation.

    That's what happened with Brown.

    He got so many nominations that there weren't enough left for anyone else to meet the 15% nomination.
    And that is sufficient? The NEC can't force a contest? I know they didn't in Brown's case, but maybe Len has had some minor rule changed since then.
    Nope. The court case confirmed it last year. In a leadership contest where the existing leader isn't standing you need to be nominated by 15% of the PLP/MEPs.

    If you can't get that 15% you can't stand.
    So Corbyn just refuses to resign and he is automatically in the ballot, even if 90% of the PLP vote for Yvette.

    Corbyn 'aint going anywhere, he is already campaigning in ultra-safe seats where his deluded supporters are based.
    Yup.

    Like an STD, Corbyn's hard to shift.

    He carried on when 172 out of 232 of his MPs voted they had no confidence in him.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,822

    Scott_P said:

    The level of delusion among Corbynistas is unbelievable. They can't understand how anyone could dislike or even be critical of Corbyn. I notice they NEVER acknowledge his controversial comments/associations, it's like they pretend it never happened and Jeremy is just a nice, kind man being bullied by the 'EVIL' Tory media. They see themselves as independent thinkers who haven't brought into the media 'lies.' They believe the BBC is some kind of right-wing organisation.

    It goes on and on.

    Kevin Maguire claims Corbyn's historical support of the IRA is a smear
    LOL I always say that Corbyn and Trump supporters have a lot in common. Both groups have a ridiculous cult-like devotion to their leaders which means they feel they challenge facts.

    The most DELUSIONAL Corbynite by far is Paul Mason. My God.

    Paul Mason is not a Corbyn supporter. He is way more cynical than that:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/79840/jeremy-corbyn-supporter-paul-mason-says-labour

    He also has a journalism brand to maintain. This is predicated on the far left controlling Labour - Mason gets plenty of gigs on the back of that. When this comes to an end, his work dries up.

    As for Maguire, he is an extreme Labour party loyalist. ON 9th June he will be calling for Corbyn to stand down. You can et your bottom dollar on that.

    Thing is, Mason had a journalistic career centred around impartiality with C4, and before that Newsnight. It feels like he has dropped that career to become a professional left-wing journalist/advocate for Corbyn.

    Re Maguire, yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see that.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    malcolmg said:

    JackW said:

    malcolmg said:

    LOL, only morons think Ruth is anything other than a great empty barrel. She will run out of animals to pose on for the tame right wing media. Southern Tories are easy pleased.

    In you more reflective moments as you gaze across the hallowed crops of revered turnips, what's your considered assessment for each party MP strength from Scotland after 8th June?
    Labour 0 , Lib Dems 1 , Tories 4 , SNP 54.
    A faint whisper of a Tory klaxon there malc .....

    I'm ashamed of you !! .... :smile:
  • FangsyFangsy Posts: 28
    Cooper's price is getting silly now - I've been able to lay at 3.55
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 821
    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:


    Joking aside, my best guess would be Con 10, Lib Dem 3, Labour 2, SNP 44.

    Possible, but I would say an ambitious number of Conservative seats from the SNP. It depends more on the predicted degree of Unionist tactical voting than any measurable swings to the Conservatives.

    Edit: I should also say that if there is that degree of generalised Unionist tactical voting it's possible the LIbs Dems and Labour could win one or two further seats.
    It also depends whether there will be any anti-Tory tactical voting. Given that the Tories look set for a landslide, many left-leaning/pro-Remain voters throughout GB will be voting for the candidate best placed to defeat them, which in most cases in Scotland will be the SNP. The GE election is not about whether there should be IndyRef2. In addition, in some seats such East Renfrewshire, it will be not be clear to the average voter which pro-Unionist candidate to support, if that is their primary criterion for determining their vote.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,991
    JackW said:

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    malcolmg said:

    LOL, only morons think Ruth is anything other than a great empty barrel. She will run out of animals to pose on for the tame right wing media. Southern Tories are easy pleased.

    In you more reflective moments as you gaze across the hallowed crops of revered turnips, what's your considered assessment for each party MP strength from Scotland after 8th June?
    Conservative 45, Lib Dem 4, Labour 3, SNP 7
    I think @malcolmg has sent you a case of Chateau Mouton Roth-Turnip and you've polished off the lot overnight ....
    Joking aside, my best guess would be Con 10, Lib Dem 3, Labour 2, SNP 44.
    Give or take a few here and there the evidence from 2015 and 2017 would seem to support those numbers. Unionist voters appear to be becoming more savvy as to which candidate is most likely to defeat the SNP candidate.

    That said the strength of the SNP remains compelling under FPTP.
    SEANF , would you care to place some money on your mistaken idea that 15 seats will not be SNP. I see easy pickings there, but assume you will not be silly enough to back your position.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 13,107
    Ishmael_Z said:


    I can't think of anything braver than a Health Secretary who decided to migrate the NHS to Linux. Windows remains the must-have product, because 1. legacy systems 2. shortage of Linux techies 3. inertia.

    This incident demonstrates the problems with your points (1) and (3). Hanging onto legacy systems and not doing anything about them is why they were hit.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    FF43 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:


    I can't think of anything braver than a Health Secretary who decided to migrate the NHS to Linux. Windows remains the must-have product, because 1. legacy systems 2. shortage of Linux techies 3. inertia.

    This incident demonstrates the problems with your points (1) and (3). Hanging onto legacy systems and not doing anything about them is why they were hit.
    But you haven't addressed (2)

    The lesson learnt will be if any to install the patches that were available, not to uproot and replace entire systems.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,991
    JackW said:

    malcolmg said:

    JackW said:

    malcolmg said:

    LOL, only morons think Ruth is anything other than a great empty barrel. She will run out of animals to pose on for the tame right wing media. Southern Tories are easy pleased.

    In you more reflective moments as you gaze across the hallowed crops of revered turnips, what's your considered assessment for each party MP strength from Scotland after 8th June?
    Labour 0 , Lib Dems 1 , Tories 4 , SNP 54.
    A faint whisper of a Tory klaxon there malc .....

    I'm ashamed of you !! .... :smile:
    I am in a benevolent mood today Jack.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 7,655
    FF43 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:


    I can't think of anything braver than a Health Secretary who decided to migrate the NHS to Linux. Windows remains the must-have product, because 1. legacy systems 2. shortage of Linux techies 3. inertia.

    This incident demonstrates the problems with your points (1) and (3). Hanging onto legacy systems and not doing anything about them is why they were hit.
    Sure; but if you are a Health Secretary with any claim to sanity, you are going to shelve the problem as something for your successor to get his teeth into. And so is your successor.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,119
    A coronation would be a mistake. Cooper would be a mistake.

    Of the names listed, I could imagine Nandy, Lewis or Jarvis being the most formidable. I personally rate Nandy the highest.

    I expect the Tories would be delighted to face Jess Philips, who seems not to think before she speaks or rushes into print.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:


    As I have pointed out before, the recruitment and retention problems in staffing are getting worse, with record numbers of GP vacancies:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patients-wait-longer-as-gp-jobs-lie-vacant-cw88dshc7?shareToken=74a63508f3ea258d07901827bc4c5440

    Hospital specialities too:

    https://twitter.com/DrGrumble/status/862919041001938945

    I reckon this to be a bigger problem than funding.


    8% - equivalent to about c.5m people as a proportion of our population.

    So, on these staff numbers and whilst making zero efficiencies, we would be fully staffed on a population of 60-61m?

    You are Diane Abbott and I claim my £5.
    "Dr Stokes-Lampard added: “Workload in general practice is escalating — it has increased 16 per cent over the last seven years according to the latest research "

    The population has risen by 3m over the same period.


    Why stop there? Let's halve the population to make the NHS twice as good.
    Immigrants are overwhelmingly young and often fertile, so Chestnut may have a point with Obstetrics and paediatrics, but the vast bulk of the workload in most specialities is because of an increasing ageing population of the frail elderly. Overwhelmingly these are indigenous Britons.

    Q: What does Brexit Britain look like without inward immigration?

    A: a lot like Wales.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,020

    Nigelb said:

    Yvette Cooper would be great news for the tories, she is insipid and bland. Its irrelevant who the leader is, the whole brand is tarnished.

    And you can add to that a wooden and patronising manner.

    None of which seems to have done May any harm.

    Yep - the next Labour leader is not going to be facing a superstar. And the next shadow cabinet will hardly be up against a team of titans. You only have to match your opponents. By not picking from a full team Labour is not doing that at the moment. Change that and you change the whole political dynamic.

    The next leaders job (assuming it is not another mad Corbynista) is to remove the hard left. It will take a Kinnock type character with real guts.

    This is why Corbyn will not stand down: he knows that if he does that's it for the far left, they will be rooted out of all areas in which they might have influence. To be fair, that is not as hard as it sounds, given that the keyboard is the chosen far left medium.

    I would like to think that the first thing the next Labour leader will do is apologise for the party's craven self-indulgence and abandonment of the electorate.

  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 2,644

    Nigelb said:

    Yvette Cooper would be great news for the tories, she is insipid and bland. Its irrelevant who the leader is, the whole brand is tarnished.

    And you can add to that a wooden and patronising manner.

    None of which seems to have done May any harm.

    Yep - the next Labour leader is not going to be facing a superstar. And the next shadow cabinet will hardly be up against a team of titans. You only have to match your opponents. By not picking from a full team Labour is not doing that at the moment. Change that and you change the whole political dynamic.

    I think people underestimate May on here. Yes, she's had a lucky few months. But I think she's shown that she's tactically shrewd and has picked some smart battles to fight. She's also reenergised the party in areas that Cameron couldn't reach. Her biggest blunder - the abandoned NI rise - was an unforced error, but could probably have been ridden out if it hadn't been for the 2015 manifesto that was produced in different times and different circumstances. I appreciate that Brexit and Corbyn have been factors, but to enjoy almost year-long political honeymoon is at least partly a product of some good tactics and presentation.

    She is yet to be fully tested with her own mandate, so time will tell. But this narrative that she's rubbish and it will just take a little bit more time before she's 'found out' seems to be ignoring the very real strategic successes she's enjoyed.
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 821

    Is there an expert Kremlin-watcher on here who can tell us whether the NEC can force a leadership election if the MPs have decided to organize a Brown-style acclamation as Mike has suggested?

    All it would need is 86% of the PLP and MEPs to nominate one candidate, and we have a coronation.

    That's what happened with Brown.

    He got so many nominations that there weren't enough left for anyone else to meet the 15% nomination.
    And that is sufficient? The NEC can't force a contest? I know they didn't in Brown's case, but maybe Len has had some minor rule changed since then.
    Nope. The court case confirmed it last year. In a leadership contest where the existing leader isn't standing you need to be nominated by 15% of the PLP/MEPs.

    If you can't get that 15% you can't stand.
    So Corbyn just refuses to resign and he is automatically in the ballot, even if 90% of the PLP vote for Yvette.

    Corbyn 'aint going anywhere, he is already campaigning in ultra-safe seats where his deluded supporters are based.
    Yup.

    Like an STD, Corbyn's hard to shift.

    He carried on when 172 out of 232 of his MPs voted they had no confidence in him.
    If Labour retain a vote share of about 30%, which seems plausible, despite losing a lot of seats due to the UKIP to Con swing of about 8%, Corbyn may be able to hang on for a while. IMO, the best thing he could do would be to announce that he will go in late 2017, after a contest to replace under new rules agreed at the party conference in the early autumn. Many in the Labour party would be happy with such a timescale, and it would weaken the support for an early contest under the existing rules. Much of the problem with Corbyn is his incompetence rather than policy issues.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,010

    On topic, why should someone who wasn't good enough 2 years ago now become a shoo-in for the leadership?

    Different time, different circumstances. For one, being a shoo-in need not mean she is good enough for the job, just that no other candidates want or could challenge for the job. For two, she may have played it badly last time, played it safe - she certainly has an odd bit in one debate iirc where she kept weirdly smiling, and I think she'd been told by advisers she was seen as too cold and overcompensated - and this time she would go for broke.

    HaroldO said:

    Scott_P said:

    The level of delusion among Corbynistas is unbelievable. They can't understand how anyone could dislike or even be critical of Corbyn. I notice they NEVER acknowledge his controversial comments/associations, it's like they pretend it never happened and Jeremy is just a nice, kind man being bullied by the 'EVIL' Tory media. They see themselves as independent thinkers who haven't brought into the media 'lies.' They believe the BBC is some kind of right-wing organisation.

    It goes on and on.

    Kevin Maguire claims Corbyn's historical support of the IRA is a smear
    LOL I always say that Corbyn and Trump supporters have a lot in common. Both groups have a ridiculous cult-like devotion to their leaders which means they feel they challenge facts.

    The most DELUSIONAL Corbynite by far is Paul Mason. My God.
    Not Eoin Clarke?
    I've heard of him on here, but I've never seen him on TV or checked his twitter. I'll look now.
    He's hilarious, you'll love it. Would assume he's a parody but apparently not.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Nigelb said:

    Yvette Cooper would be great news for the tories, she is insipid and bland. Its irrelevant who the leader is, the whole brand is tarnished.

    And you can add to that a wooden and patronising manner.

    None of which seems to have done May any harm.

    Yep - the next Labour leader is not going to be facing a superstar. And the next shadow cabinet will hardly be up against a team of titans. You only have to match your opponents. By not picking from a full team Labour is not doing that at the moment. Change that and you change the whole political dynamic.

    The next leaders job (assuming it is not another mad Corbynista) is to remove the hard left. It will take a Kinnock type character with real guts.

    This is why Corbyn will not stand down: he knows that if he does that's it for the far left, they will be rooted out of all areas in which they might have influence. To be fair, that is not as hard as it sounds, given that the keyboard is the chosen far left medium.

    I would like to think that the first thing the next Labour leader will do is apologise for the party's craven self-indulgence and abandonment of the electorate.

    I agree, there will be no resignation by Jezza, he will fight any contest.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Nigelb said:

    Yvette Cooper would be great news for the tories, she is insipid and bland. Its irrelevant who the leader is, the whole brand is tarnished.

    And you can add to that a wooden and patronising manner.

    None of which seems to have done May any harm.

    Yep - the next Labour leader is not going to be facing a superstar. And the next shadow cabinet will hardly be up against a team of titans. You only have to match your opponents. By not picking from a full team Labour is not doing that at the moment. Change that and you change the whole political dynamic.

    The next leaders job (assuming it is not another mad Corbynista) is to remove the hard left. It will take a Kinnock type character with real guts.

    This is why Corbyn will not stand down: he knows that if he does that's it for the far left, they will be rooted out of all areas in which they might have influence. To be fair, that is not as hard as it sounds, given that the keyboard is the chosen far left medium.

    I would like to think that the first thing the next Labour leader will do is apologise for the party's craven self-indulgence and abandonment of the electorate.

    The first thing a new leader should do (but won't) is go to a true one member one vote system with a six month membership requirement and end all voting rights for affiliates, supporters, union members etc - if a union member etc wants to join the Labour Party when there isn't an election on they should do so.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 15,251

    Roger said:

    Kippers in kilts update.

    Some nascent signs that the media worm is turning with regard to Ruthy.

    https://twitter.com/markmcdsnp/status/863183636262264836

    Of course it's no revelation that the SCons are happy to soak up the racist bigot vote, but they've become too complacent about doing it openly. Douce Unionist folk don't want to open their breakfast newspaper to news of councillors' manhoods or loonballs calling for politicians to be taken out.

    I think the people of the North East will be with dissident Skipper Buchan. Is it now illegal to criticize the partitionist occupation ?
    Retired skipper.
    Now he just spends his days posting on FB about the gays, dem Muslamics and asking people to take out Sturgeon.
    So a real Glaswegian
    He's a NE loon, but a big Rangers(newco) fan, so you could certainly say he has an affinity with a certain type of Glaswgian. Spooky how homgeneous the racist, homophobic, Islamophonic views of these people are.
    I did a job using Rangers football club. It made Muirfield look progressive. It was like a 19th century public school. All dark wood panelling with a notice board with the team sheet on it. "The following have been selected to play..."

    It was shortly after they'd signed Mo Johnson and people were burning their season tickets outside the ground.
  • peterbriffapeterbriffa Posts: 23
    I am slightly disappointed that Tony Blair didn't stand as an independent in Islington North. He might not have won, but a gesture like that might actually have increased the Labour vote elsewhere in the country ( as in, they aren't all nutters ) and kept the flame of Blairism alive. And if he had won...
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,126
    Apologies if seen earlier.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4501456/Even-Corbyn-s-ex-lover-Diane-Abbott-airbrushing-out.html

    Will Abbott bring herself to include Jezza on her next mail shot?
  • walterwwalterw Posts: 71
    SquareRoot

    'I haven't hear Lord Mandleson say anything about this election so far.. Has anyone else?'


    We also haven't had any input from Ken Livingstone yet,he's unusually quiet.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 2,707

    Nigelb said:

    Yvette Cooper would be great news for the tories, she is insipid and bland. Its irrelevant who the leader is, the whole brand is tarnished.

    And you can add to that a wooden and patronising manner.

    None of which seems to have done May any harm.

    Yep - the next Labour leader is not going to be facing a superstar. And the next shadow cabinet will hardly be up against a team of titans. You only have to match your opponents. By not picking from a full team Labour is not doing that at the moment. Change that and you change the whole political dynamic.

    I think people underestimate May on here. Yes, she's had a lucky few months. But I think she's shown that she's tactically shrewd and has picked some smart battles to fight. She's also reenergised the party in areas that Cameron couldn't reach. Her biggest blunder - the abandoned NI rise - was an unforced error, but could probably have been ridden out if it hadn't been for the 2015 manifesto that was produced in different times and different circumstances. I appreciate that Brexit and Corbyn have been factors, but to enjoy almost year-long political honeymoon is at least partly a product of some good tactics and presentation.

    She is yet to be fully tested with her own mandate, so time will tell. But this narrative that she's rubbish and it will just take a little bit more time before she's 'found out' seems to be ignoring the very real strategic successes she's enjoyed.
    She's rubbish - just a flat track bully!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,010
    Funniest comment from a corbynite I saw re the media was directly saying the public was brainwashed by it like they were subject to a Mafia kidnapping band then got Stockholm syndrome. I like it when people on the far left rant about the biased BBC, it makes for variety compared to the usual stuff from the right.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    If we can't have Balls, then it must be Cooper.

    Not because she is a woman. But definitely, the best of the bunch.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    daodao said:

    Is there an expert Kremlin-watcher on here who can tell us whether the NEC can force a leadership election if the MPs have decided to organize a Brown-style acclamation as Mike has suggested?

    All it would need is 86% of the PLP and MEPs to nominate one candidate, and we have a coronation.

    That's what happened with Brown.

    He got so many nominations that there weren't enough left for anyone else to meet the 15% nomination.
    And that is sufficient? The NEC can't force a contest? I know they didn't in Brown's case, but maybe Len has had some minor rule changed since then.
    Nope. The court case confirmed it last year. In a leadership contest where the existing leader isn't standing you need to be nominated by 15% of the PLP/MEPs.

    If you can't get that 15% you can't stand.
    So Corbyn just refuses to resign and he is automatically in the ballot, even if 90% of the PLP vote for Yvette.

    Corbyn 'aint going anywhere, he is already campaigning in ultra-safe seats where his deluded supporters are based.
    Yup.

    Like an STD, Corbyn's hard to shift.

    He carried on when 172 out of 232 of his MPs voted they had no confidence in him.
    If Labour retain a vote share of about 30%, which seems plausible, despite losing a lot of seats due to the UKIP to Con swing of about 8%, Corbyn may be able to hang on for a while. IMO, the best thing he could do would be to announce that he will go in late 2017, after a contest to replace under new rules agreed at the party conference in the early autumn. Many in the Labour party would be happy with such a timescale, and it would weaken the support for an early contest under the existing rules. Much of the problem with Corbyn is his incompetence rather than policy issues.
    Isn't the issue with changing rules and the leader the odd twin requirements that the rules can only be changed at conference and the leader can only be elected at conference. Meaning if the rules are changed this autumn then unless new rules end the conference requirement the next leader would be elected autumn conference 2018?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 15,251
    edited May 2017
    dr_spyn said:

    Apologies if seen earlier.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4501456/Even-Corbyn-s-ex-lover-Diane-Abbott-airbrushing-out.html

    Will Abbott bring herself to include Jezza on her next mail shot?

    Do most candidates put photos of their ex's on their mailing shots?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,020

    Nigelb said:

    Yvette Cooper would be great news for the tories, she is insipid and bland. Its irrelevant who the leader is, the whole brand is tarnished.

    And you can add to that a wooden and patronising manner.

    None of which seems to have done May any harm.

    Yep - the next Labour leader is not going to be facing a superstar. And the next shadow cabinet will hardly be up against a team of titans. You only have to match your opponents. By not picking from a full team Labour is not doing that at the moment. Change that and you change the whole political dynamic.

    I think people underestimate May on here. Yes, she's had a lucky few months. But I think she's shown that she's tactically shrewd and has picked some smart battles to fight. She's also reenergised the party in areas that Cameron couldn't reach. Her biggest blunder - the abandoned NI rise - was an unforced error, but could probably have been ridden out if it hadn't been for the 2015 manifesto that was produced in different times and different circumstances. I appreciate that Brexit and Corbyn have been factors, but to enjoy almost year-long political honeymoon is at least partly a product of some good tactics and presentation.

    She is yet to be fully tested with her own mandate, so time will tell. But this narrative that she's rubbish and it will just take a little bit more time before she's 'found out' seems to be ignoring the very real strategic successes she's enjoyed.

    I don't think she is rubbish. I think she is among the cabinet's brighter stars and as such she rises to mediocre. But she lacks confidence, is leaden and is totally focused on garnering positive headlines in the right wing press.

    That said, as she is going to be our PM for the next five years at least and she has to negotiate a good Brexit deal that does not leave the UK in too bad a position, I would actually like to be wrong about this. I hope that what some say about her securing her own mandate in order to face down the swivel-eyed Brexiteers turns out to be true.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,010
    Sandpit said:

    Morning. If Corbyn doesn't resign and there's a challlenge, then we won't get a coronation, we'll get an election as we did last year with Corbyn automatically on the ballot. The incumbent has already made it clear he's going nowhere, certainly not before the McDonnell Amendment at Conference.

    What he said he will do and what he will do may not be the same thing. If he gets circa 30% and say circa 200 seats, I think he'll stay and fight, otherwise he'll stand down. He's stayed with the brand for this long, he doesn't want to risk a split in it.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    daodao said:

    Is there an expert Kremlin-watcher on here who can tell us whether the NEC can force a leadership election if the MPs have decided to organize a Brown-style acclamation as Mike has suggested?

    All it would need is 86% of the PLP and MEPs to nominate one candidate, and we have a coronation.

    That's what happened with Brown.

    He got so many nominations that there weren't enough left for anyone else to meet the 15% nomination.
    And that is sufficient? The NEC can't force a contest? I know they didn't in Brown's case, but maybe Len has had some minor rule changed since then.
    Nope. The court case confirmed it last year. In a leadership contest where the existing leader isn't standing you need to be nominated by 15% of the PLP/MEPs.

    If you can't get that 15% you can't stand.
    So Corbyn just refuses to resign and he is automatically in the ballot, even if 90% of the PLP vote for Yvette.

    Corbyn 'aint going anywhere, he is already campaigning in ultra-safe seats where his deluded supporters are based.
    Yup.

    Like an STD, Corbyn's hard to shift.

    He carried on when 172 out of 232 of his MPs voted they had no confidence in him.
    If Labour retain a vote share of about 30%, which seems plausible, despite losing a lot of seats due to the UKIP to Con swing of about 8%, Corbyn may be able to hang on for a while. IMO, the best thing he could do would be to announce that he will go in late 2017, after a contest to replace under new rules agreed at the party conference in the early autumn. Many in the Labour party would be happy with such a timescale, and it would weaken the support for an early contest under the existing rules. Much of the problem with Corbyn is his incompetence rather than policy issues.
    I would think that a likely scenario, not least as Jezza will be 5 years older at the next election. It also gives a bit of time for post election reflection, and by summer 2018 we will have a good idea what Brexit looks like.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,126
    welshowl said:

    Mr. Owl, weren't Welshmen used to man telephones in WWII, because the Germans couldn't understand a word of what they were saying?

    Was certainly used during peacekeeping in Bosnia, as all communications had to be in "clear". Which a Welsh regiment duly complied with, though not many Bosnian Serbs had the faintest of course what was being said. (source Cardiff Castle exhibition).
    Lloyd George used Welsh and Hindustani speaking officers during Versailles conference to confuse French phone tappers.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,126
    Roger said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Apologies if seen earlier.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4501456/Even-Corbyn-s-ex-lover-Diane-Abbott-airbrushing-out.html

    Will Abbott bring herself to include Jezza on her next mail shot?

    Do most candidates put photos of their ex's on their mailing shots?
    Ex Leaders?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,010
    Roger said:

    felix said:

    As I recall Cooper is the one who emote about child refugees and asked one pithy question at PMQs. Her ministerial record was very poor. If she is the answer the party is in a bad way. Those thousands of left wing members will all still be there.

    Jon Ashworth still available at 80, I see...

    But if looking for a woman who can do a Kinnock on Militant, look no furtber than Jess Phillips.
    I agree. My favourite female Labour MP. Feisty and funny. It's hard to see her as a PM but that's something we doesn't need to worry about for a while
    I know MD is not a fan, but I appreciate she has character. Maybe a little too blunt for a top job, even in these times. I do also like her skits with Rees-Mogg. Two people who would agree on very little, but seem able to be pleasant and have a little fun even as they disagree very strongly on things.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    murali_s said:

    Nigelb said:

    Yvette Cooper would be great news for the tories, she is insipid and bland. Its irrelevant who the leader is, the whole brand is tarnished.

    And you can add to that a wooden and patronising manner.

    None of which seems to have done May any harm.

    Yep - the next Labour leader is not going to be facing a superstar. And the next shadow cabinet will hardly be up against a team of titans. You only have to match your opponents. By not picking from a full team Labour is not doing that at the moment. Change that and you change the whole political dynamic.

    I think people underestimate May on here. Yes, she's had a lucky few months. But I think she's shown that she's tactically shrewd and has picked some smart battles to fight. She's also reenergised the party in areas that Cameron couldn't reach. Her biggest blunder - the abandoned NI rise - was an unforced error, but could probably have been ridden out if it hadn't been for the 2015 manifesto that was produced in different times and different circumstances. I appreciate that Brexit and Corbyn have been factors, but to enjoy almost year-long political honeymoon is at least partly a product of some good tactics and presentation.

    She is yet to be fully tested with her own mandate, so time will tell. But this narrative that she's rubbish and it will just take a little bit more time before she's 'found out' seems to be ignoring the very real strategic successes she's enjoyed.
    She's rubbish - just a flat track bully!
    Bloody hell, if May is rubbish what would the polls look like with a good leader?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,119
    edited May 2017

    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:


    As I have pointed out before, the recruitment and retention problems in staffing are getting worse, with record numbers of GP vacancies:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patients-wait-longer-as-gp-jobs-lie-vacant-cw88dshc7?shareToken=74a63508f3ea258d07901827bc4c5440

    Hospital specialities too:

    https://twitter.com/DrGrumble/status/862919041001938945

    I reckon this to be a bigger problem than funding.


    8% - equivalent to about c.5m people as a proportion of our population.

    So, on these staff numbers and whilst making zero efficiencies, we would be fully staffed on a population of 60-61m?

    You are Diane Abbott and I claim my £5.
    "Dr Stokes-Lampard added: “Workload in general practice is escalating — it has increased 16 per cent over the last seven years according to the latest research "

    The population has risen by 3m over the same period.


    Why stop there? Let's halve the population to make the NHS twice as good.
    Immigrants are , so Chestnut may have a point with Obstetrics and paediatrics, but the vast bulk of the workload in most specialities is because of an increasing ageing population of the frail elderly. Overwhelmingly these are indigenous Britons.

    Q: What does Brexit Britain look like without inward immigration?

    A: a lot like Wales.
    There is a lot of inward immigration to Wales. Our immigrants unfortunately are not “overwhelmingly young and often fertile”.

    They are middle-aged and elderly English people. The demographics of the Pembrokeshire, Ceredigion and Merionethshire coastal areas show that the majority of those over 60 are born in England, not Wales. They have migrated to Wales for retirement.

    The Welsh NHS then has to pick up the bill for treating the “frail, elderly” English.

    This makes your “joke” exceptionally unfunny (and close to hate speech).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,010
    I keep seeing ashworth mentioned but I have no memory of ever seeing him. That might be in his favour.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    [May] is totally focused on garnering positive headlines in the right wing press.

    You must have said that about 200 times over the last week, but do you have the slightest shred of evidence for it?

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,020
    daodao said:

    Is there an expert Kremlin-watcher on here who can tell us whether the NEC can force a leadership election if the MPs have decided to organize a Brown-style acclamation as Mike has suggested?

    All it would need is 86% of the PLP and MEPs to nominate one candidate, and we have a coronation.

    That's what happened with Brown.

    He got so many nominations that there weren't enough left for anyone else to meet the 15% nomination.
    And that is sufficient? The NEC can't force a contest? I know they didn't in Brown's case, but maybe Len has had some minor rule changed since then.
    Nope. The court case confirmed it last year. In a leadership contest where the existing leader isn't standing you need to be nominated by 15% of the PLP/MEPs.

    If you can't get that 15% you can't stand.
    So Corbyn just refuses to resign and he is automatically in the ballot, even if 90% of the PLP vote for Yvette.

    Corbyn 'aint going anywhere, he is already campaigning in ultra-safe seats where his deluded supporters are based.
    Yup.

    Like an STD, Corbyn's hard to shift.

    He carried on when 172 out of 232 of his MPs voted they had no confidence in him.
    If Labour retain a vote share of about 30%, which seems plausible, despite losing a lot of seats due to the UKIP to Con swing of about 8%, Corbyn may be able to hang on for a while. IMO, the best thing he could do would be to announce that he will go in late 2017, after a contest to replace under new rules agreed at the party conference in the early autumn. Many in the Labour party would be happy with such a timescale, and it would weaken the support for an early contest under the existing rules. Much of the problem with Corbyn is his incompetence rather than policy issues.

    It is very unlikely there will be a rule change on the nomination threshold. Once again, this is down to the fact that most Corbynistas do not attend the meetings where most decisions are made.

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    daodao said:

    Is there an expert Kremlin-watcher on here who can tell us whether the NEC can force a leadership election if the MPs have decided to organize a Brown-style acclamation as Mike has suggested?

    All it would need is 86% of the PLP and MEPs to nominate one candidate, and we have a coronation.

    That's what happened with Brown.

    He got so many nominations that there weren't enough left for anyone else to meet the 15% nomination.
    And that is sufficient? The NEC can't force a contest? I know they didn't in Brown's case, but maybe Len has had some minor rule changed since then.
    Nope. The court case confirmed it last year. In a leadership contest where the existing leader isn't standing you need to be nominated by 15% of the PLP/MEPs.

    If you can't get that 15% you can't stand.
    So Corbyn just refuses to resign and he is automatically in the ballot, even if 90% of the PLP vote for Yvette.

    Corbyn 'aint going anywhere, he is already campaigning in ultra-safe seats where his deluded supporters are based.
    Yup.

    Like an STD, Corbyn's hard to shift.

    He carried on when 172 out of 232 of his MPs voted they had no confidence in him.
    If Labour retain a vote share of about 30%, which seems plausible, despite losing a lot of seats due to the UKIP to Con swing of about 8%, Corbyn may be able to hang on for a while. IMO, the best thing he could do would be to announce that he will go in late 2017, after a contest to replace under new rules agreed at the party conference in the early autumn. Many in the Labour party would be happy with such a timescale, and it would weaken the support for an early contest under the existing rules. Much of the problem with Corbyn is his incompetence rather than policy issues.
    Isn't the issue with changing rules and the leader the odd twin requirements that the rules can only be changed at conference and the leader can only be elected at conference. Meaning if the rules are changed this autumn then unless new rules end the conference requirement the next leader would be elected autumn conference 2018?
    Where does it say that the leader can only be elected at Conference ?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Nigelb said:

    Yvette Cooper would be great news for the tories, she is insipid and bland. Its irrelevant who the leader is, the whole brand is tarnished.

    And you can add to that a wooden and patronising manner.

    None of which seems to have done May any harm.

    Yep - the next Labour leader is not going to be facing a superstar. And the next shadow cabinet will hardly be up against a team of titans. You only have to match your opponents. By not picking from a full team Labour is not doing that at the moment. Change that and you change the whole political dynamic.

    I think people underestimate May on here. Yes, she's had a lucky few months. But I think she's shown that she's tactically shrewd and has picked some smart battles to fight. She's also reenergised the party in areas that Cameron couldn't reach. Her biggest blunder - the abandoned NI rise - was an unforced error, but could probably have been ridden out if it hadn't been for the 2015 manifesto that was produced in different times and different circumstances. I appreciate that Brexit and Corbyn have been factors, but to enjoy almost year-long political honeymoon is at least partly a product of some good tactics and presentation.

    She is yet to be fully tested with her own mandate, so time will tell. But this narrative that she's rubbish and it will just take a little bit more time before she's 'found out' seems to be ignoring the very real strategic successes she's enjoyed.

    I don't think she is rubbish. I think she is among the cabinet's brighter stars and as such she rises to mediocre. But she lacks confidence, is leaden and is totally focused on garnering positive headlines in the right wing press.

    That said, as she is going to be our PM for the next five years at least and she has to negotiate a good Brexit deal that does not leave the UK in too bad a position, I would actually like to be wrong about this. I hope that what some say about her securing her own mandate in order to face down the swivel-eyed Brexiteers turns out to be true.

    Actually the Kremlinology of the Tory party looks more interesting. It seems that we will have a reweighting of the PCP to the North and Midlands, and to a more kipper demographic. There will also be a lot of new backbenchers without real prospect of being part of the government.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 5,704
    edited May 2017
    What do PBers think of the Tory plan to let people delete embarrassing stuff from social media once they reach 18? Is it at all workable? Perhaps more importantly, being a bit cynical, will voters think it is a) achievable and b) useful?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 13,107


    I don't think she is rubbish. I think she is among the cabinet's brighter stars and as such she rises to mediocre. But she lacks confidence, is leaden and is totally focused on garnering positive headlines in the right wing press.

    That said, as she is going to be our PM for the next five years at least and she has to negotiate a good Brexit deal that does not leave the UK in too bad a position, I would actually like to be wrong about this. I hope that what some say about her securing her own mandate in order to face down the swivel-eyed Brexiteers turns out to be true.

    So far Theresa May has demonstrated virtually no interest in in the Brexit negotiations. The leaked revelations from that dinner confirm that emptiness. It's not a case of not wishing prematurely to reveal her hand. She has on the other hand put a lot of effort into shoring up support from the headbanger faction, which has only served to close down her negotiating options. To achieve a good settlement we have to believe that Mrs May has neutralised the headbangers and will now engage on the real negotiations by ignoring them. Sounds possible on paper, but I would like see some hints of that actually happening.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,706
    Mr. Owl, I was unaware of that :)

    F1: engine problems for Bottas.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046

    What do PBers think of the Tory plan to let people delete embarrassing stuff from social media once they reach 18? Is it at all workable? Perhaps more importantly, being a bit cynical, will voters think it is a) achievable and b) useful?

    Make that 38 !
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    [May] is totally focused on garnering positive headlines in the right wing press.

    You must have said that about 200 times over the last week, but do you have the slightest shred of evidence for it?

    You know , by definition, an opinion is abstract. If I say I am an atheist, you cannot ask for a proof.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 15,251
    edited May 2017

    Roger said:



    Yesterday when I saw Boris saying if Trump wanted him to wipe his bottom it was the least he could do....I found myself thinking Corbyn really did have a point and when I was 18 those would be the only messages I would hear.

    HUH? Link???

    If Corbyn really cared about the Labour party he'd stand down.

    A link doesn't exist It was shorthand for his announcement that we were obliged to do the bidding of the US president whoever he was and Corbyn didn't understand that . It was all over the news last night. It was the first time Boris has been let out to campaign and what an own goal it turned out to be.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 2,644
    Southam - i think you're right that there's an element on headline chasing, although sadly that seems to be par for the course in politics nowadays. I'd suggest that the moves she's made on Brussels and the Scottish referendum, and of course calling an election, doesn't suggest a lack of confidence. Certainly there is greater decisiveness than Brown ever had as PM.

    I do think the big challenge coming down the tracks (other than Brexit) will be the NHS. There is a feeling that it's standing on the edge of a precipice at the moment and I don't think May has been deft or convincing in her responses on that front. The 'leadenness' you speak of has come across there. But I remain to be convinced that she will totally come unstuck at the first sign of a vaguely competent attack line from the opposition.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Tories increased their vote share against a surging SNP in 2015 by 2% in Perth & N. Perthshire, 5% in Moray, and 2% in Aberdeen South. If they can do that in a bad year for them imagine what they can do with a surge!

    Tory surge KLAXON! (any excuse).
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,991
    murali_s said:

    Nigelb said:

    Yvette Cooper would be great news for the tories, she is insipid and bland. Its irrelevant who the leader is, the whole brand is tarnished.

    And you can add to that a wooden and patronising manner.

    None of which seems to have done May any harm.

    Yep - the next Labour leader is not going to be facing a superstar. And the next shadow cabinet will hardly be up against a team of titans. You only have to match your opponents. By not picking from a full team Labour is not doing that at the moment. Change that and you change the whole political dynamic.

    I think people underestimate May on here. Yes, she's had a lucky few months. But I think she's shown that she's tactically shrewd and has picked some smart battles to fight. She's also reenergised the party in areas that Cameron couldn't reach. Her biggest blunder - the abandoned NI rise - was an unforced error, but could probably have been ridden out if it hadn't been for the 2015 manifesto that was produced in different times and different circumstances. I appreciate that Brexit and Corbyn have been factors, but to enjoy almost year-long political honeymoon is at least partly a product of some good tactics and presentation.

    She is yet to be fully tested with her own mandate, so time will tell. But this narrative that she's rubbish and it will just take a little bit more time before she's 'found out' seems to be ignoring the very real strategic successes she's enjoyed.
    She's rubbish - just a flat track bully!
    A vacuum , nothing to say but puerile soundbites.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,020
    FF43 said:


    I don't think she is rubbish. I think she is among the cabinet's brighter stars and as such she rises to mediocre. But she lacks confidence, is leaden and is totally focused on garnering positive headlines in the right wing press.

    That said, as she is going to be our PM for the next five years at least and she has to negotiate a good Brexit deal that does not leave the UK in too bad a position, I would actually like to be wrong about this. I hope that what some say about her securing her own mandate in order to face down the swivel-eyed Brexiteers turns out to be true.

    So far Theresa May has demonstrated virtually no interest in in the Brexit negotiations. The leaked revelations from that dinner confirm that emptiness. It's not a case of not wishing prematurely to reveal her hand. She has on the other hand put a lot of effort into shoring up support from the headbanger faction, which has only served to close down her negotiating options. To achieve a good settlement we have to believe that Mrs May has neutralised the headbangers and will now engage on the real negotiations by ignoring them. Sounds possible on paper, but I would like see some hints of that actually happening.

    Yep - I agree. She gives every impression of boxing herself into a corner that she will only be able to escape from by upsetting an awful lot of right-wingers in her party and in the press. I just cannot see it happening; but as I am a patriot I very much hope to be proved wrong.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 92,816
    edited May 2017
    In the event of a likely challenge to Corbyn I don't see why Cooper should be likely to beat him amongst the membership even after a big Labour defeat, after all in 2015 she was third with members behind not only Corbyn but Burnham too. I would have thought Starmer was a better bet given he is still in the Shadow Cabinet unlike Cooper and thus may have more chance of winning over a few more Corbyn voters on the grounds he at least served Corbyn in the Shadow Cabinet unlike Cooper who refused to and as Shadow Brexit Secretary his experience will be of the most use in the next 5 years which will be dominated by Brexit and the negotiations with the EU.

    In the event Corbyn steps down others like Umunna and Jarvis andcLeeis might be tempted to stand too
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,010

    On topic, I agree with pretty much all that Mike's written, except that I'm not convinced that if push came to shove, Corbyn wouldn't stand down. He clearly doesn't like many aspects of the job and must know that he's woefully out of his depth, and that only loyalty to his supporters and his cause is sustaining him. If it became apparent that he couldn't win a third contest, why try?

    Agreed. He loves campaigning, he's been pretty comfortable in this contest, but any next leadership contest would involve a lot more bitterness, a lot more former supporters confronting not adoring crowds. He might win depending on the result, that there's talk of the MPs splitting off shows they are not all confident of beating him, but I dont think he'd risk it.

    I wonder if there'll be an exodus of members, even though he will stay in the party.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Roger said:

    Kippers in kilts update.

    Some nascent signs that the media worm is turning with regard to Ruthy.

    https://twitter.com/markmcdsnp/status/863183636262264836

    Of course it's no revelation that the SCons are happy to soak up the racist bigot vote, but they've become too complacent about doing it openly. Douce Unionist folk don't want to open their breakfast newspaper to news of councillors' manhoods or loonballs calling for politicians to be taken out.

    I think the people of the North East will be with dissident Skipper Buchan. Is it now illegal to criticize the partitionist occupation ?
    Retired skipper.
    Now he just spends his days posting on FB about the gays, dem Muslamics and asking people to take out Sturgeon.
    So a real Glaswegian
    He's a NE loon, but a big Rangers(newco) fan, so you could certainly say he has an affinity with a certain type of Glaswgian. Spooky how homogeneous the racist, homophobic, Islamophonic views of these people are.
    When proud Scots like Skipper Buchan have become targets for the SNP's thought police, it's time to rid Scotland the Nat lice.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,020

    [May] is totally focused on garnering positive headlines in the right wing press.

    You must have said that about 200 times over the last week, but do you have the slightest shred of evidence for it?

    Yep - all her actions since becoming PM, including a craven climb-down on self-employed NI payments after the appearance of the first uncomfortable headlines.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,010
    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    malcolmg said:

    LOL, only morons think Ruth is anything other than a great empty barrel. She will run out of animals to pose on for the tame right wing media. Southern Tories are easy pleased.

    In you more reflective moments as you gaze across the hallowed crops of revered turnips, what's your considered assessment for each party MP strength from Scotland after 8th June?
    Conservative 45, Lib Dem 4, Labour 3, SNP 7
    I think @malcolmg has sent you a case of Chateau Mouton Roth-Turnip and you've polished off the lot overnight ....
    Joking aside, my best guess would be Con 10, Lib Dem 3, Labour 2, SNP 44.
    That would do just fine. Fingers crossed, though I'm still thinking closer to 50 than 40.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,991
    surbiton said:

    If we can't have Balls, then it must be Cooper.

    Not because she is a woman. But definitely, the best of the bunch.

    Morning Surbiton, if your post is true it is extremely depressing, she is really really duff so will be nasty Tories for some considerable time.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    [May] is totally focused on garnering positive headlines in the right wing press.

    You must have said that about 200 times over the last week, but do you have the slightest shred of evidence for it?

    Yep - all her actions since becoming PM, including a craven climb-down on self-employed NI payments after the appearance of the first uncomfortable headlines.
    You mean when she accepted that she was bound by a manifesto pledge?

    I'm not convinced by your sole example.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,991

    Roger said:

    Kippers in kilts update.

    Some nascent signs that the media worm is turning with regard to Ruthy.

    https://twitter.com/markmcdsnp/status/863183636262264836

    Of course it's no revelation that the SCons are happy to soak up the racist bigot vote, but they've become too complacent about doing it openly. Douce Unionist folk don't want to open their breakfast newspaper to news of councillors' manhoods or loonballs calling for politicians to be taken out.

    I think the people of the North East will be with dissident Skipper Buchan. Is it now illegal to criticize the partitionist occupation ?
    Retired skipper.
    Now he just spends his days posting on FB about the gays, dem Muslamics and asking people to take out Sturgeon.
    So a real Glaswegian
    He's a NE loon, but a big Rangers(newco) fan, so you could certainly say he has an affinity with a certain type of Glaswgian. Spooky how homogeneous the racist, homophobic, Islamophonic views of these people are.
    When proud Scots like Skipper Buchan have become targets for the SNP's thought police, it's time to rid Scotland the Nat lice.
    LOL, even more CUCKOO than normal
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited May 2017

    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:


    As I have pointed out before, the recruitment and retention problems in staffing are getting worse, with record numbers of GP vacancies:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patients-wait-longer-as-gp-jobs-lie-vacant-cw88dshc7?shareToken=74a63508f3ea258d07901827bc4c5440

    Hospital specialities too:

    https://twitter.com/DrGrumble/status/862919041001938945

    I reckon this to be a bigger problem than funding.


    8% - equivalent to about c.5m people as a proportion of our population.

    So, on these staff numbers and whilst making zero efficiencies, we would be fully staffed on a population of 60-61m?

    You are Diane Abbott and I claim my £5.
    "Dr Stokes-Lampard added: “Workload in general practice is escalating — it has increased 16 per cent over the last seven years according to the latest research "

    The population has risen by 3m over the same period.


    Why stop there? Let's halve the population to make the NHS twice as good.
    Immigrants are , so Chestnut may have a point with Obstetrics and paediatrics, but the vast bulk of the workload in most specialities is because of an increasing ageing population of the frail elderly. Overwhelmingly these are indigenous Britons.

    Q: What does Brexit Britain look like without inward immigration?

    A: a lot like Wales.
    There is a lot of inward immigration to Wales. Our immigrants unfortunately are not “overwhelmingly young and often fertile”.

    They are middle-aged and elderly English people. The demographics of the Pembrokeshire, Ceredigion and Merionethshire coastal areas show that the majority of those over 60 are born in England, not Wales. They have migrated to Wales for retirement.

    The Welsh NHS then has to pick up the bill for treating the “frail, elderly” English.

    This makes your “joke” exceptionally unfunny (and close to hate speech).
    It was not a joke, and I mean no slur on the Welsh, indeed my grandmother was a native Welsh speaker.

    The demographics of Wales, and to a lesse extent Scotland, are pretty poor, with limited opportunities for the young over much of the country, and an increasingly ageing population. Parts of England are very similar, such as my relatives on the Isle of Wight. Post Brexit more Britons will retire to Wales and the South Coast.

    Brexit produces a lot of challenges that have yet to really hit home.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,991
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    malcolmg said:

    LOL, only morons think Ruth is anything other than a great empty barrel. She will run out of animals to pose on for the tame right wing media. Southern Tories are easy pleased.

    In you more reflective moments as you gaze across the hallowed crops of revered turnips, what's your considered assessment for each party MP strength from Scotland after 8th June?
    Conservative 45, Lib Dem 4, Labour 3, SNP 7
    I think @malcolmg has sent you a case of Chateau Mouton Roth-Turnip and you've polished off the lot overnight ....
    Joking aside, my best guess would be Con 10, Lib Dem 3, Labour 2, SNP 44.
    That would do just fine. Fingers crossed, though I'm still thinking closer to 50 than 40.
    Sean has not popped up to put his money where his mouth is yet, will he be another Tory empty vessel like many on here.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 69,296

    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:


    As I have pointed out before, the recruitment and retention problems in staffing are getting worse, with record numbers of GP vacancies:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patients-wait-longer-as-gp-jobs-lie-vacant-cw88dshc7?shareToken=74a63508f3ea258d07901827bc4c5440

    Hospital specialities too:

    https://twitter.com/DrGrumble/status/862919041001938945

    I reckon this to be a bigger problem than funding.


    8% - equivalent to about c.5m people as a proportion of our population.

    So, on these staff numbers and whilst making zero efficiencies, we would be fully staffed on a population of 60-61m?

    You are Diane Abbott and I claim my £5.
    "Dr Stokes-Lampard added: “Workload in general practice is escalating — it has increased 16 per cent over the last seven years according to the latest research "

    The population has risen by 3m over the same period.


    Why stop there? Let's halve the population to make the NHS twice as good.
    Immigrants are overwhelmingly young and often fertile, so Chestnut may have a point with Obstetrics and paediatrics, but the vast bulk of the workload in most specialities is because of an increasing ageing population of the frail elderly. Overwhelmingly these are indigenous Britons.

    Q: What does Brexit Britain look like without inward immigration?

    A: a lot like Wales.
    Hmm Wales seems perfectly pleasent to me...
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113

    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:


    As I have pointed out before, the recruitment and retention problems in staffing are getting worse, with record numbers of GP vacancies:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patients-wait-longer-as-gp-jobs-lie-vacant-cw88dshc7?shareToken=74a63508f3ea258d07901827bc4c5440

    Hospital specialities too:

    https://twitter.com/DrGrumble/status/862919041001938945

    I reckon this to be a bigger problem than funding.


    8% - equivalent to about c.5m people as a proportion of our population.

    So, on these staff numbers and whilst making zero efficiencies, we would be fully staffed on a population of 60-61m?

    You are Diane Abbott and I claim my £5.
    "Dr Stokes-Lampard added: “Workload in general practice is escalating — it has increased 16 per cent over the last seven years according to the latest research "

    The population has risen by 3m over the same period.


    Why stop there? Let's halve the population to make the NHS twice as good.
    Immigrants are , so Chestnut may have a point with Obstetrics and paediatrics, but the vast bulk of the workload in most specialities is because of an increasing ageing population of the frail elderly. Overwhelmingly these are indigenous Britons.

    Q: What does Brexit Britain look like without inward immigration?

    A: a lot like Wales.
    There is a lot of inward immigration to Wales. Our immigrants unfortunately are not “overwhelmingly young and often fertile”.

    They are middle-aged and elderly English people. The demographics of the Pembrokeshire, Ceredigion and Merionethshire coastal areas show that the majority of those over 60 are born in England, not Wales. They have migrated to Wales for retirement.

    The Welsh NHS then has to pick up the bill for treating the “frail, elderly” English.

    This makes your “joke” exceptionally unfunny (and close to hate speech).
    I don't think it was a joke
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,010

    Scott_P said:

    The level of delusion among Corbynistas is unbelievable. They can't understand how anyone could dislike or even be critical of Corbyn. I notice they NEVER acknowledge his controversial comments/associations, it's like they pretend it never happened and Jeremy is just a nice, kind man being bullied by the 'EVIL' Tory media. They see themselves as independent thinkers who haven't brought into the media 'lies.' They believe the BBC is some kind of right-wing organisation.

    It goes on and on.

    Kevin Maguire claims Corbyn's historical support of the IRA is a smear
    LOL I always say that Corbyn and Trump supporters have a lot in common. Both groups have a ridiculous cult-like devotion to their leaders which means they feel they challenge facts.

    The most DELUSIONAL Corbynite by far is Paul Mason. My God.

    Paul Mason is not a Corbyn supporter. He is way more cynical than that:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/79840/jeremy-corbyn-supporter-paul-mason-says-labour

    He also has a journalism brand to maintain. This is predicated on the far left controlling Labour - Mason gets plenty of gigs on the back of that. When this comes to an end, his work dries up.

    As for Maguire, he is an extreme Labour party loyalist. ON 9th June he will be calling for Corbyn to stand down. You can et your bottom dollar on that.

    Thing is, Mason had a journalistic career centred around impartiality with C4, and before that Newsnight. It feels like he has dropped that career to become a professional left-wing journalist/advocate for Corbyn.

    Re Maguire, yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see that.
    Mason says he's still a journalist only now he's allowed to tell the truth. I think he might be a little unhinged.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,020

    Southam - i think you're right that there's an element on headline chasing, although sadly that seems to be par for the course in politics nowadays. I'd suggest that the moves she's made on Brussels and the Scottish referendum, and of course calling an election, doesn't suggest a lack of confidence. Certainly there is greater decisiveness than Brown ever had as PM.

    I do think the big challenge coming down the tracks (other than Brexit) will be the NHS. There is a feeling that it's standing on the edge of a precipice at the moment and I don't think May has been deft or convincing in her responses on that front. The 'leadenness' you speak of has come across there. But I remain to be convinced that she will totally come unstuck at the first sign of a vaguely competent attack line from the opposition.

    She won't. But she'll get an opposition. And she has not yet had one of those.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,865

    Whilst the NHS are running XP, I thought the exploited vulnerability was in Word and was vulnerable on modern versions of OS.

    Thought the March patch Microsoft released was for Office and not Windows to rectify this.

    Incorrect. The vulnerability is in the SMB protocol, which is used for file sharing in companies. The patch issued was for all supported versions of Windows, which no longer includes Windows XP. XP shouldn't be near the internet any more, and should be blocked from USB drives and the like, which can be a source of virus attacks.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 13,107
    Ishmael_Z said:

    FF43 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:


    I can't think of anything braver than a Health Secretary who decided to migrate the NHS to Linux. Windows remains the must-have product, because 1. legacy systems 2. shortage of Linux techies 3. inertia.

    This incident demonstrates the problems with your points (1) and (3). Hanging onto legacy systems and not doing anything about them is why they were hit.
    Sure; but if you are a Health Secretary with any claim to sanity, you are going to shelve the problem as something for your successor to get his teeth into. And so is your successor.
    I don't think this is particularly an issue for the Health Secretary. Undoubtedly there will be many who will continue to stick with what they know, but the trend is away from desktop apps to more standardised browser based systems. Incidents like this one will only accelerate that trend. The only reason for Windows really is that managers like to produce presentations and spreadsheets in Powerpoint and Excel.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,010
    FF43 said:


    I don't think she is rubbish. I think she is among the cabinet's brighter stars and as such she rises to mediocre. But she lacks confidence, is leaden and is totally focused on garnering positive headlines in the right wing press.

    That said, as she is going to be our PM for the next five years at least and she has to negotiate a good Brexit deal that does not leave the UK in too bad a position, I would actually like to be wrong about this. I hope that what some say about her securing her own mandate in order to face down the swivel-eyed Brexiteers turns out to be true.

    So far Theresa May has demonstrated virtually no interest in in the Brexit negotiations. The leaked revelations from that dinner confirm that emptiness. It's not a case of not wishing prematurely to reveal her hand. She has on the other hand put a lot of effort into shoring up support from the headbanger faction, which has only served to close down her negotiating options. To achieve a good settlement we have to believe that Mrs May has neutralised the headbangers and will now engage on the real negotiations by ignoring them. Sounds possible on paper, but I would like see some hints of that actually happening.

    I don't know that she's shown no interest, but I agree entirely with your last sentences, There's no evidence yet it will be the case.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,119

    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:


    As I have pointed out before, the recruitment and retention problems in staffing are getting worse, with record numbers of GP vacancies:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patients-wait-longer-as-gp-jobs-lie-vacant-cw88dshc7?shareToken=74a63508f3ea258d07901827bc4c5440

    Hospital specialities too:

    https://twitter.com/DrGrumble/status/862919041001938945

    I reckon this to be a bigger problem than funding.


    8% - equivalent to about c.5m people as a proportion of our population.

    So, on these staff numbers and whilst making zero efficiencies, we would be fully staffed on a population of 60-61m?

    You are Diane Abbott and I claim my £5.
    "Dr Stokes-Lampard added: “Workload in general practice is escalating — it has increased 16 per cent over the last seven years according to the latest research "

    The population has risen by 3m over the same period.


    Why stop there? Let's halve the population to make the NHS twice as good.
    Immigrants are , so Chestnut may have a point with Obstetrics and paediatrics, but the vast bulk of the workload in most specialities is because of an increasing ageing population of the frail elderly. Overwhelmingly these are indigenous Britons.

    Q: What does Brexit Britain look like without inward immigration?

    A: a lot like Wales.
    There is a lot of inward immigration to Wales. Our immigrants unfortunately are not “overwhelmingly young and often fertile”.

    They are middle-aged and elderly English people. The demographics of the Pembrokeshire, Ceredigion and Merionethshire coastal areas show that the majority of those over 60 are born in England, not Wales. They have migrated to Wales for retirement.

    The Welsh NHS then has to pick up the bill for treating the “frail, elderly” English.

    This makes your “joke” exceptionally unfunny (and close to hate speech).
    It was not a joke, and I mean no slur on the Welsh, indeed my grandmother was a native Welsh speaker.

    The demographics of Wales, and to a lesse extent Scotland, are pretty poor, with limited opportunities for the young over much of the country, and an increasingly ageing population. Parts of England are very similar, such as my relatives on the Isle of Wight. Post Brexit more Britons will retire to Wales and the South Coast.

    Brexit produces a lot of challenges that have yet to really hit home.
    It has nothing to do with “Brexit challenges that have yet to hit home”

    This has been happening for at least 20 years prior to any Brexit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,010
    walterw said:

    SquareRoot

    'I haven't hear Lord Mandleson say anything about this election so far.. Has anyone else?'


    We also haven't had any input from Ken Livingstone yet,he's unusually quiet.

    Despite his tone deaf response to his slap on the wrist suspension, I think he is self aware enough that he would hurt labour by getting involved right now.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 99,406
    edited May 2017
    ComRes poll out at 6pm, with VI, their last one had a 25% Tory lead.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 35,865

    Told you for ages that all government I.T. should be done via Apple.

    You don't get this sort of stuff with Apple that you do with windows.

    Sadly that's not necessarily the case any more. Macs suffer from a tiny fraction of the crap that Windows machines (especially old ones) do, but they are not completely immune from targeted attacks.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,010

    ComRes poll out tonight, with VI, their last one had a 25% Tory lead.

    Given recent lab upticks, expect to see it around 15.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Sandpit said:

    Told you for ages that all government I.T. should be done via Apple.

    You don't get this sort of stuff with Apple that you do with windows.

    Sadly that's not necessarily the case any more. Macs suffer from a tiny fraction of the crap that Windows machines (especially old ones) do, but they are not completely immune from targeted attacks.
    And that's because only a tiny fraction of computers out there are Macs. If Macs were 90% dominant hackers would throw all their energies at them.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,010

    Is there an expert Kremlin-watcher on here who can tell us whether the NEC can force a leadership election if the MPs have decided to organize a Brown-style acclamation as Mike has suggested?

    All it would need is 86% of the PLP and MEPs to nominate one candidate, and we have a coronation.

    That's what happened with Brown.

    He got so many nominations that there weren't enough left for anyone else to meet the 15% nomination.
    And that is sufficient? The NEC can't force a contest? I know they didn't in Brown's case, but maybe Len has had some minor rule changed since then.
    Nope. The court case confirmed it last year. In a leadership contest where the existing leader isn't standing you need to be nominated by 15% of the PLP/MEPs.

    If you can't get that 15% you can't stand.
    So Corbyn just refuses to resign and he is automatically in the ballot, even if 90% of the PLP vote for Yvette.

    Corbyn 'aint going anywhere, he is already campaigning in ultra-safe seats where his deluded supporters are based.
    Yup.

    Like an STD, Corbyn's hard to shift.

    He carried on when 172 out of 232 of his MPs voted they had no confidence in him.
    And if they're reduced to say 170 MPs maybe only 150 would say that, so he's making progress!
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:


    As I have pointed out before, the recruitment and retention problems in staffing are getting worse, with record numbers of GP vacancies:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patients-wait-longer-as-gp-jobs-lie-vacant-cw88dshc7?shareToken=74a63508f3ea258d07901827bc4c5440

    Hospital specialities too:

    https://twitter.com/DrGrumble/status/862919041001938945

    I reckon this to be a bigger problem than funding.


    8% - equivalent to about c.5m people as a proportion of our population.

    So, on these staff numbers and whilst making zero efficiencies, we would be fully staffed on a population of 60-61m?

    You are Diane Abbott and I claim my £5.
    "Dr Stokes-Lampard added: “Workload in general practice is escalating — it has increased 16 per cent over the last seven years according to the latest research "

    The population has risen by 3m over the same period.


    Why stop there? Let's halve the population to make the NHS twice as good.
    Immigrants are

    Q: What does Brexit Britain look like without inward immigration?

    A: a lot like Wales.
    There is a lot of inward immigration to Wales. Our immigrants unfortunately are not “overwhelmingly young and often fertile”.

    They are middle-aged and elderly English people. The demographics of the Pembrokeshire, Ceredigion and Merionethshire coastal areas show that the majority of those over 60 are born in England, not Wales. They have migrated to Wales for retirement.

    The Welsh NHS then has to pick up the bill for treating the “frail, elderly” English.

    This makes your “joke” exceptionally unfunny (and close to hate speech).
    It was not a joke, and I mean no slur on the Welsh, indeed my grandmother was a native Welsh speaker.

    The demographics of Wales, and to a lesse extent Scotland, are pretty poor, with limited opportunities for the young over much of the country, and an increasingly ageing population. Parts of England are very similar, such as my relatives on the Isle of Wight. Post Brexit more Britons will retire to Wales and the South Coast.

    Brexit produces a lot of challenges that have yet to really hit home.
    It has nothing to do with “Brexit challenges that have yet to hit home”

    This has been happening for at least 20 years prior to any Brexit.
    I agree, but the effect will now be magnified and spread across more of the country.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,991
    Pulpstar said:

    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:


    As I have pointed out before, the recruitment and retention problems in staffing are getting worse, with record numbers of GP vacancies:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patients-wait-longer-as-gp-jobs-lie-vacant-cw88dshc7?shareToken=74a63508f3ea258d07901827bc4c5440

    Hospital specialities too:

    https://twitter.com/DrGrumble/status/862919041001938945

    I reckon this to be a bigger problem than funding.


    8% - equivalent to about c.5m people as a proportion of our population.

    So, on these staff numbers and whilst making zero efficiencies, we would be fully staffed on a population of 60-61m?

    You are Diane Abbott and I claim my £5.
    "Dr Stokes-Lampard added: “Workload in general practice is escalating — it has increased 16 per cent over the last seven years according to the latest research "

    The population has risen by 3m over the same period.


    Why stop there? Let's halve the population to make the NHS twice as good.
    Immigrants are overwhelmingly young and often fertile, so Chestnut may have a point with Obstetrics and paediatrics, but the vast bulk of the workload in most specialities is because of an increasing ageing population of the frail elderly. Overwhelmingly these are indigenous Britons.

    Q: What does Brexit Britain look like without inward immigration?

    A: a lot like Wales.
    Hmm Wales seems perfectly pleasent to me...
    Like Scotland , it is paradise if you are selling an over inflated house in southern England and buying twice as big with huge wedge left to enjoy life. Not so good if you are local with at best minimum wage job, you don't get so much opportunity to visit the nice bits.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 70,010
    Sandpit said:

    Told you for ages that all government I.T. should be done via Apple.

    You don't get this sort of stuff with Apple that you do with windows.

    Sadly that's not necessarily the case any more. Macs suffer from a tiny fraction of the crap that Windows machines (especially old ones) do, but they are not completely immune from targeted attacks.
    And how could hospitals afford it?
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