politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB/Polling Matters podcast: Firing the starting gun, Brexi
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Hmmm i need to do something similar later today, not one leaflet this year.ydoethur said:How to decide your vote when nobody bothers to campaign:
1) Look up candidates on website.
2) Realise that of the 4 candidates, only the Green candidate actually lives in this (very safe Labour) ward.
3) Decide to vote Green.0 -
My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge. It would have helped with the economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London. That's all I really care about.
"Economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London"...is that some sort of joke?
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Do you have a link to any articles on that which were written at the time?AndyJS said:It's dizzying to consider how much UK politics has changed in the space of just 10 years, when Labour were thinking about holding an early election at which they were confident of winning a fourth successive victory.
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Tories for Corbyn...MTimT said:IanB2 said:
Lots of Labour Tories as wellisam said:
Tories to the left of Guardian readers, Tories that vote Lib Dem...kle4 said:
We've got the widest range on PB - One Nation Tories, Classical Tories, Wets, Drys, Heathites and Thatcherites, the whole gamut. Something for everyone.bobajobPB said:
Yes, one of the big flaws of PB is its lack of Tories. It's like finding a virgin in a brothel at times.MTimT said:
Welcome (back) to PB. But I don't think you'll find many Tories on here though ...CaptainMatt said:I'm a longtime PB reader, and was an occasional poster (back in the disqus days!), and now I'm back.
I've also been a longtime small-c conservative with an interest in politics but was never actively involved. No more.
Today my slowly simmering blood finally boiled.
The seething rage, hate and threats being directed toward the country I love by people who are now clearly & actively trying to damage it has caused me to sign up for a Conservative party membership.
The gloves are off and now is the time to actively support & campaign the only people with the will and the ability to defend the country I love!
I wonder how many people are thinking the same thing today!
Haven't seen the Momentum Tories yet, but no doubt they'll turn up some time around 9 June as the post-election purge proceeds.0 -
No.swing_voter said:
My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge. It would have helped with the economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London. That's all I really care about.
"Economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London"...is that some sort of joke?
The North Bank (wedged between the Strand/Fleet St, Waterloo Bridge and Blackfriars Bridge) is relatively neglected. The Southbank has been very successfully regenerated; there is always a lot of focus on Trafalgar Square, Soho, etc, but in between there's no attention paid.0 -
"delusional" and "on another planet" are perfectly acceptable terms for the EU to use of the UK, doncha know?SquareRoot said:
I see , so its allright for Junker to throw his toys out of the pram and "leak" confidential discussions of which there is zero proof, but when the UK reacts and says its not happy with the way the EUI is behaving, "its poisoning the atmosphere".. LOLdaodao said:
TM should have kept her feelings under wraps; she has demeaned herself (and the UK) by her childish petulance today. This tweet from NS sums it up well "UK needs best possible Brexit deal and has limited leverage, so for PM to poison atmosphere for partisan reasons is deeply irresponsible". Car crash Brexit looms.CaptainMatt said:I'm a longtime PB reader, and was an occasional poster (back in the disqus days!), and now I'm back.
I've also been a longtime small-c conservative with an interest in politics but was never actively involved. No more.
Today my slowly simmering blood finally boiled.
The seething rage, hate and threats being directed toward the country I love by people who are now clearly & actively trying to damage it has caused me to sign up for a Conservative party membership.
The gloves are off and now is the time to actively support & campaign the only people with the will and the ability to defend the country I love!
I wonder how many people are thinking the same thing today!
May's comments were aimed at other EU governments who may be pissed off at EU Commussion meddling in domestic affairs.0 -
I'm sure she'll suggest we "think very carefully"!MarqueeMark said:Calm down, it is just the start of a process where HM the Q instructs first her staff, and later all of us, not to vote for that beastly Mr. Corbyn......
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Wonder what the Bucks Palace news is...0
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The fact that May has opted for a Brexit negotiation that will immediately activate the EU’s worst instincts and tactics, for petty party-political reasons that ultimately have everything to do with her own power and nothing to do with Britain’s optimal agreement with the EU, means only one thing: she does not deserve the mandate that Brussels is keen to neutralise.TW1R64 said:May should read this although I don't agree with the conclusion.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/03/the-six-brexit-traps-that-will-defeat-theresa-may?CMP=share_btn_link0 -
LOL. Your repeated ramping of the project was hilarious. You even descended to the level of claiming it would help the underprivileged kids of the area (if you really wanted to do that, there are much better ways of spending the tens of millions that have been wasted). You spouted rubbish figures that it turns out you had no evidence for, except for the alleged word of the chairman of the project.Charles said:You really seem to have a bug in your bonnet about this. Probably because about the cycling.
My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge. It would have helped with the economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London. That's all I really care about.
I'm really not fixated on things.
But just bear in mind that Hodges report was entirely designed to achieve a political outcome
The fact you couldn't cycle over the bridge was just one indication that the project was stupid. There were many others. For the record, I am not a keen cyclist atm.
I have got a bee in my bonnet over what was clearly an utterly pointless waste of public money. You were very much in favour, and however much you try to shirk back now, you were involved, even if in a small way.
Tens of millions of public funds have been wasted on a vain-inglorious vanity project. Everyone involved should hang their heads in shame, if not repay the money.
As for your final line: have you even read the report? To take one small point, can you defend the way the contracts were let?0 -
May's comments were aimed at readers of the sun, the mirror and the daily mail.CarlottaVance said:
"delusional" and "on another planet" are perfectly acceptable terms for the EU to use of the UK, doncha know?SquareRoot said:
I see , so its allright for Junker to throw his toys out of the pram and "leak" confidential discussions of which there is zero proof, but when the UK reacts and says its not happy with the way the EUI is behaving, "its poisoning the atmosphere".. LOLdaodao said:
TM should have kept her feelings under wraps; she has demeaned herself (and the UK) by her childish petulance today. This tweet from NS sums it up well "UK needs best possible Brexit deal and has limited leverage, so for PM to poison atmosphere for partisan reasons is deeply irresponsible". Car crash Brexit looms.CaptainMatt said:I'm a longtime PB reader, and was an occasional poster (back in the disqus days!), and now I'm back.
I've also been a longtime small-c conservative with an interest in politics but was never actively involved. No more.
Today my slowly simmering blood finally boiled.
The seething rage, hate and threats being directed toward the country I love by people who are now clearly & actively trying to damage it has caused me to sign up for a Conservative party membership.
The gloves are off and now is the time to actively support & campaign the only people with the will and the ability to defend the country I love!
I wonder how many people are thinking the same thing today!
May's comments were aimed at other EU governments who may be pissed off at EU Commussion meddling in domestic affairs.
Nobody else came into the equation.0 -
What have you heard/seen?Pulpstar said:Wonder what the Bucks Palace news is...
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The Treaty of Versailles as the principal driver for WWII doesn't explain the rise in fascism in Spain, Italy, Germany and Eastern Europe during the 1920s, and 1930s, nor the rise of communism in others, most obviously Russia, nor aggressive nationalism in Japan.
Both fascism and communism looked like the future, and more modern, to many over democracy at the time.
I'd argue the principal driver was the newly industrialised nation states, driven by ethnic nationalism and a perverted interpretation of Darwinism, wishing to fight and compete with the established dominant powers of the British Empire, United States, and France, for space and to do so quickly, in response to the economic troubles of the interwar years, by being far more ruthless and exploitative.
So, actually, it wasn't hugely dissimilar to WWI in causes, but far more darkly ideological.0 -
Credit to Caroline Pidgeon and the London LibDems - she was raising these concerns well before the tens of millions had been tipped fruitlessly into the river.JosiasJessop said:
LOL. Your repeated ramping of the project was hilarious. You even descended to the level of claiming it would help the underprivileged kids of the area (if you really wanted to do that, there are much better ways of spending the tens of millions that have been wasted). You spouted rubbish figures that it turns out you had no evidence for, except for the alleged word of the chairman of the project.Charles said:You really seem to have a bug in your bonnet about this. Probably because about the cycling.
My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge. It would have helped with the economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London. That's all I really care about.
I'm really not fixated on things.
But just bear in mind that Hodges report was entirely designed to achieve a political outcome
The fact you couldn't cycle over the bridge was just one indication that the project was stupid. There were many others. For the record, I am not a keen cyclist atm.
I have got a bee in my bonnet over what was clearly an utterly pointless waste of public money. You were very much in favour, and however much you try to shirk back now, you were involved, even if in a small way.
Tens of millions of public funds have been wasted on a vain-inglorious vanity project. Everyone involved should hang their heads in shame, if not repay the money.
As for your final line: have you even read the report? To take one small point, can you defend the way the contracts were let?
Boris with his fixation for grandiose schemes has a lot to answer for. A pointless bridge and a pointless cable car do little to address the many pressing but less glamorous challenges the capital faces.0 -
Sounds a lot of trouble to go to. I'm just going to vote Tory this morning without really applying my mind to the candidates at all, none of whom have been evident on the doorstep and none of whose leaflets I have troubled to look at. Edit, I am told by my better half we have had 2 Tory leaflets, 1 SNP and 1 Lib Dem. Labour never even got a leaflet out.ydoethur said:How to decide your vote when nobody bothers to campaign:
1) Look up candidates on website.
2) Realise that of the 4 candidates, only the Green candidate actually lives in this (very safe Labour) ward.
3) Decide to vote Green.
Indeed, it may be an effect of the GE but this is the first time I can recall that we have not been canvassed by any of the parties for the locals. The SNP in particular seem to be conserving their resources somewhat.0 -
Nick Sutton @suttonnick
No politics on @BBCNews until 10pm: "There will be no coverage of any issues directly pertinent to the election campaigns on any BBC outlet"0 -
Similar to us with LD. Although we were probably going to anyway!ydoethur said:How to decide your vote when nobody bothers to campaign:
1) Look up candidates on website.
2) Realise that of the 4 candidates, only the Green candidate actually lives in this (very safe Labour) ward.
3) Decide to vote Green.0 -
Except that the drive to war came from one place and one place only. Italy was never particularly keen and Spain stayed out throughout. And of course extremism was fuelled by economic discontent which, as you say, stemmed from a crisis in capitalism - exacerbated in Germany by the impact of the treaty terms.Casino_Royale said:The Treaty of Versailles as the principal driver for WWII doesn't explain the rise in fascism in Spain, Italy, Germany and Eastern Europe during the 1920s, and 1930s, nor the rise of communism in others, most obviously Russia, nor aggressive nationalism in Japan.
Both fascism and communism looked like the future, and more modern, to many over democracy at the time.
I'd argue the principal driver was the newly industrialised nation states, driven by ethnic nationalism and a perverted interpretation of Darwinism, wishing to fight and compete with the established dominant powers of the British Empire, United States, and France, for space and to do so quickly, in response to the economic troubles of the interwar years, by being far more ruthless and exploitative.
So, actually, it wasn't hugely dissimilar to WWI in causes, but far more darkly ideological.0 -
Morning all.
Had more bumph through the door this year than any other, Lib Dems x 4 which included a personalised printed letter, standard flyers and a glossy A4 with dodgy bar chart. Green Party, which I think is a first, 2 from the Tories and at least one from Labour and an Independent.
Drove past a house yesterday with Labour posters in every window, apart from that zilch.0 -
Good luck!Pulpstar said:
Oh ye locals, almost forgot - will vote for myself in a bitydoethur said:How to decide your vote when nobody bothers to campaign:
1) Look up candidates on website.
2) Realise that of the 4 candidates, only the Green candidate actually lives in this (very safe Labour) ward.
3) Decide to vote Green.0 -
And the tens of millions spent on a bridge (and what was it spent on, and who got it) was the best way of helping that area?Charles said:
No.swing_voter said:
My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge. It would have helped with the economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London. That's all I really care about.
"Economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London"...is that some sort of joke?
The North Bank (wedged between the Strand/Fleet St, Waterloo Bridge and Blackfriars Bridge) is relatively neglected. The Southbank has been very successfully regenerated; there is always a lot of focus on Trafalgar Square, Soho, etc, but in between there's no attention paid.
The bridge had no purpose, as the report shows. Saying it would help the locals is just desperate floundering. Such benefits should be low-priority positive side effects of a bridge, not the reason.0 -
There seems to have been a lack of candour over finance. I understand that a loose affiliation of millionaires and billionaires were being disingenuous about whether they were going to pay for all of it, or just the barest minimum needed to make them look generous. As with dfid when the rich start being vicariously generous with taxpayers' money it is necessary to remind oneself that tax is also paid by poor people who would prefer their money spent on pedestrian stuff like housing.Charles said:
You really seem to have a bug in your bonnet about this. Probably because about the cycling.JosiasJessop said:
He may be a slimy git, but at least he cancelled the Garden Bridge. That's an indication he has a more sound judgement on the use of public money than you do.Charles said:
That's a loaded way of presenting the question. Someone's specific religion has nothing to do with it. For instance, in principle, I wouldn't have a problem voting for Sadiq Khan*AlastairMeeks said:
Would you therefore refuse ever to vote for a devout Muslim?Charles said:@AlastairMeeks fpt
Re Farron
Elections need to be about character not policies - you can never predicte the decisions they will face
He clearly believes gay sex (although differentiating between that and homosexuality sexuality is classic Anglican sophistry @foxinsox ) is wrong.
That, for me, makes him toxic
I wouldn't vote for anyone who personally believed that a significant proportion of the population were sinning because of their sexual preferences. It doesn't matter whether they were Muslin, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Jew or Pastafarian.
I wouldn't vote for an avowed racist either, or for someone who believe that women should have a lesser status in society.
* Although I think he's a slimy git, so wouldn't vote for him on that basis
By the way, you might want to read Hodge's fairly damning report in the project. You may note many of the criticisms I, and others, made about it, and you roundly denied:
https://www.london.gov.uk/independent-review-garden-bridge-project
My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge. It would have helped with the economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London. That's all I really care about.
I'm really not fixated on things.
But just bear in mind that Hodges report was entirely designed to achieve a political outcome
The bridge looked merely weird in the mockups, having large deciduous trees in unrestricted forms growing on it looked like a Chernobyl 20 years on photo of nature re-establishing itself in a deserted city.0 -
Royal baby, Prince Harry engagement possibly ?
Deaths seem to have been ruled out though can't 100% rule it out...0 -
I agree with that, although the cable car seems a sane project when compared to the hideous mess that was the Garden Bridge.IanB2 said:
Credit to Caroline Pidgeon and the London LibDems - she was raising these concerns well before the tens of millions had been tipped fruitlessly into the river.JosiasJessop said:
LOL. Your repeated ramping of the project was hilarious. You even descended to the level of claiming it would help the underprivileged kids of the area (if you really wanted to do that, there are much better ways of spending the tens of millions that have been wasted). You spouted rubbish figures that it turns out you had no evidence for, except for the alleged word of the chairman of the project.Charles said:You really seem to have a bug in your bonnet about this. Probably because about the cycling.
My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge. It would have helped with the economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London. That's all I really care about.
I'm really not fixated on things.
But just bear in mind that Hodges report was entirely designed to achieve a political outcome
The fact you couldn't cycle over the bridge was just one indication that the project was stupid. There were many others. For the record, I am not a keen cyclist atm.
I have got a bee in my bonnet over what was clearly an utterly pointless waste of public money. You were very much in favour, and however much you try to shirk back now, you were involved, even if in a small way.
Tens of millions of public funds have been wasted on a vain-inglorious vanity project. Everyone involved should hang their heads in shame, if not repay the money.
As for your final line: have you even read the report? To take one small point, can you defend the way the contracts were let?
Boris with his fixation for grandiose schemes has a lot to answer for. A pointless bridge and a pointless cable car do little to address the many pressing but less glamorous challenges the capital faces.0 -
Ignore me, it's for the locals.CarlottaVance said:Nick Sutton @suttonnick
No politics on @BBCNews until 10pm: "There will be no coverage of any issues directly pertinent to the election campaigns on any BBC outlet"0 -
Feeling left out now....SimonStClare said:Morning all.
Had more bumph through the door this year than any other, Lib Dems x 4 which included a personalised printed letter, standard flyers and a glossy A4 with dodgy bar chart. Green Party, which I think is a first, 2 from the Tories and at least one from Labour and an Independent.
Drove past a house yesterday with Labour posters in every window, apart from that zilch.0 -
Well, I can assure you this was not the way I was expecting to vote!OldKingCole said:
Similar to us with LD. Although we were probably going to anyway!ydoethur said:How to decide your vote when nobody bothers to campaign:
1) Look up candidates on website.
2) Realise that of the 4 candidates, only the Green candidate actually lives in this (very safe Labour) ward.
3) Decide to vote Green.0 -
Japan?IanB2 said:
Except that the drive to war came from one place and one place only..Casino_Royale said:The Treaty of Versailles as the principal driver for WWII doesn't explain the rise in fascism in Spain, Italy, Germany and Eastern Europe during the 1920s, and 1930s, nor the rise of communism in others, most obviously Russia, nor aggressive nationalism in Japan.
Both fascism and communism looked like the future, and more modern, to many over democracy at the time.
I'd argue the principal driver was the newly industrialised nation states, driven by ethnic nationalism and a perverted interpretation of Darwinism, wishing to fight and compete with the established dominant powers of the British Empire, United States, and France, for space and to do so quickly, in response to the economic troubles of the interwar years, by being far more ruthless and exploitative.
So, actually, it wasn't hugely dissimilar to WWI in causes, but far more darkly ideological.
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Isn't the Queen a bit old to have another baby?Pulpstar said:Royal baby, Prince Harry engagement possibly ?
(Snip)
Does anyone know whether such an even wrt the staff has happened before, and if so, when?-1 -
First! (to vote at my polling station this morning, achieving a 26yr goal for me).
And I can confidently confirm that the Tory Surge in the Llanfynydd ward of Flintshire County Council is on track this morning with 100% of the votes cast.0 -
A poll in the Hertfordshire Advertiser of 1000 people in St Albans gives:-
Lib Dem 61%, Cons 17%, Labour13%, UKIP 5%, Greens 4%, I have no idea how scientfic that is but it does seem a significant sort of lead.
I recall the Eevening Sentinel in Stoke did a poll a coupole of days before the by election, said it was neck and neck between UKIP and Labour, that was wrong.0 -
Not a single leaflet? Are you sure your area is actually taking part in the locals this year?HaroldO said:
Feeling left out now....SimonStClare said:Morning all.
Had more bumph through the door this year than any other, Lib Dems x 4 which included a personalised printed letter, standard flyers and a glossy A4 with dodgy bar chart. Green Party, which I think is a first, 2 from the Tories and at least one from Labour and an Independent.
Drove past a house yesterday with Labour posters in every window, apart from that zilch.
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Good tip, and thanks very much for your earlier tips on Macron. It is going to set me up very nicely.Chris_from_Paris said:Disastrous performance by Le Pen.
I have switched my voting share betting from 35/40 and 40/45 to 30/35 and 35/40.0 -
Are you sure the Tory and LD figures aren't the wrong way round there?theakes said:A poll in the Hertfordshire Advertiser of 1000 people in St Albans gives:-
Lib Dem 61%, Cons 17%, Labour13%, UKIP 5%, Greens 4%, I have no idea how scientfic that is but it does seem a significant sort of lead.
I recall the Eevening Sentinel in Stoke did a poll a coupole of days before the by election, said it was neck and neck between UKIP and Labour, that was wrong.0 -
My involvement has been limited to hosting one dinner for one individual. That was at the personal request of a friend of my family - as a rule we try to accommodate our friends where possible. As a local, I also saw the benefits to the area.JosiasJessop said:
LOL. Your repeated ramping of the project was hilarious. You even descended to the level of claiming it would help the underprivileged kids of the area (if you really wanted to do that, there are much better ways of spending the tens of millions that have been wasted). You spouted rubbish figures that it turns out you had no evidence for, except for the alleged word of the chairman of the project.Charles said:You really seem to have a bug in your bonnet about this. Probably because about the cycling.
My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge. It would have helped with the economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London. That's all I really care about.
I'm really not fixated on things.
But just bear in mind that Hodges report was entirely designed to achieve a political outcome
The fact you couldn't cycle over the bridge was just one indication that the project was stupid. There were many others. For the record, I am not a keen cyclist atm.
I have got a bee in my bonnet over what was clearly an utterly pointless waste of public money. You were very much in favour, and however much you try to shirk back now, you were involved, even if in a small way.
Tens of millions of public funds have been wasted on a vain-inglorious vanity project. Everyone involved should hang their heads in shame, if not repay the money.
As for your final line: have you even read the report? To take one small point, can you defend the way the contracts were let?
And I object to your suggestion that I don't really want to "help underprivileged kids".
I consider this discussion closed. You were much more pleasant before you were ill.0 -
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I was second at mine.RobinWiggs said:First! (to vote at my polling station this morning, achieving a 26yr goal for me).
And I can confidently confirm that the Tory Surge in the Llanfynydd ward of Flintshire County Council is on track this morning with 100% of the votes cast.0 -
It's nice how all of Archants local paper online polls are linked through to each other, so you can do a batch of them one after the othertheakes said:A poll in the Hertfordshire Advertiser of 1000 people in St Albans gives:-
Lib Dem 61%, Cons 17%, Labour13%, UKIP 5%, Greens 4%, I have no idea how scientfic that is but it does seem a significant sort of lead.
I recall the Eevening Sentinel in Stoke did a poll a coupole of days before the by election, said it was neck and neck between UKIP and Labour, that was wrong.0 -
http://www.hertsad.co.uk/news/general-election-2017-herts-ad-poll-says-anne-main-could-lose-st-albans-1-5000454Omnium said:
Are you sure the Tory and LD figures aren't the wrong way round there?theakes said:A poll in the Hertfordshire Advertiser of 1000 people in St Albans gives:-
Lib Dem 61%, Cons 17%, Labour13%, UKIP 5%, Greens 4%, I have no idea how scientfic that is but it does seem a significant sort of lead.
I recall the Eevening Sentinel in Stoke did a poll a coupole of days before the by election, said it was neck and neck between UKIP and Labour, that was wrong.
2600 base size rather suggests voodoo - or an awfully expensive proper poll for a local paper0 -
"My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge. It would have helped with the economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London. That's all I really care about." is the most marvellous bit of cognitive dissonance I have seen in recent years. I want nice stuff within 50 yards of my office, and the taxpayer to foot the bill. There are traditions going as far back as we have history for of the rich paying out of their own pockets to beautify civic spaces for the benefit of all. Why, now that the rich are richer than they have ever been, invert the procedure?JosiasJessop said:
And the tens of millions spent on a bridge (and what was it spent on, and who got it) was the best way of helping that area?Charles said:
No.swing_voter said:
My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge. It would have helped with the economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London. That's all I really care about.
"Economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London"...is that some sort of joke?
The North Bank (wedged between the Strand/Fleet St, Waterloo Bridge and Blackfriars Bridge) is relatively neglected. The Southbank has been very successfully regenerated; there is always a lot of focus on Trafalgar Square, Soho, etc, but in between there's no attention paid.
The bridge had no purpose, as the report shows. Saying it would help the locals is just desperate floundering. Such benefits should be low-priority positive side effects of a bridge, not the reason.
Perhaps the contractors would accept payment in frequent flyer miles or whatever they are.
It takes a lot to turn me sans-culotte before breakfast, but really...0 -
Yeah, if you are a candidate it's easy to end up waiting for it to open, after the early morning delivery run is done!Fysics_Teacher said:
I was second at mine.RobinWiggs said:First! (to vote at my polling station this morning, achieving a 26yr goal for me).
And I can confidently confirm that the Tory Surge in the Llanfynydd ward of Flintshire County Council is on track this morning with 100% of the votes cast.
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You're in a Lib Dem target ward with the personalised letter.SimonStClare said:Morning all.
Had more bumph through the door this year than any other, Lib Dems x 4 which included a personalised printed letter, standard flyers and a glossy A4 with dodgy bar chart. Green Party, which I think is a first, 2 from the Tories and at least one from Labour and an Independent.
Drove past a house yesterday with Labour posters in every window, apart from that zilch.0 -
The Newspaper Poll is probably not that reliable. It could however be close in St Albans as there was only a 4% lead by the Tories in 2010 and there's a much bigger Labour vote to squeeze than UKIP.Omnium said:
Are you sure the Tory and LD figures aren't the wrong way round there?theakes said:A poll in the Hertfordshire Advertiser of 1000 people in St Albans gives:-
Lib Dem 61%, Cons 17%, Labour13%, UKIP 5%, Greens 4%, I have no idea how scientfic that is but it does seem a significant sort of lead.
I recall the Eevening Sentinel in Stoke did a poll a coupole of days before the by election, said it was neck and neck between UKIP and Labour, that was wrong.0 -
Must be something about teachers. The local politics teacher was second at mine.Fysics_Teacher said:
I was second at mine.
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Dicky Arbiter is a rather splendid name - and sounds as though it should belong to a character from Anthony Powell's A Dance to the Music of Time.CarlottaVance said:
The news of Royal Household staff being summoned has sparked off speculation - Arbiter is trying to damp it down.surbiton said:
What was that thing about Dicky Arbiter ? Why is he tweeting so early in the morning ?CarlottaVance said:
Because people don't know the protocol?surbiton said:
Why would that sort of rumour allowed to start ? These are modern times. I am sure they have protocol but any announcement should be made within a couple of hours.CarlottaVance said:
Seconded! or Thirded, or probably umpteenth!old_labour said:Congratulations to @Tissue_Price for being selected as a parliamentary candidate.
Both 'Buckingham Palace and 'Prince Philip' are trending on twitter.....
http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2017/05/buckingham-palace-denies-reports-prince-philip-queen-elizabeth-have-died.html
“If you ever hear Haunted Dancehall (Nursery Remix) by Sabres of Paradise on daytime Radio 1, turn the TV on,” wrote Chris Price, a BBC radio producer, for the Huffington Post in 2011. “Something terrible has just happened.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge0 -
Yes - they have to get up and in to work early.RobinWiggs said:
Must be something about teachers. The local politics teacher was second at mine.Fysics_Teacher said:
I was second at mine.
0 -
The bulk of the money is coming from private sources. Or was before Khan scared away a couple of big donors. The government contribution was (a) a VAT rebate [i.e. foregone tax]; (b) money that was already budgeted to be spent redeveloping Temple tube; and (c) an underwriting which - had Khan not interfered - would have been replaced by private donationsIshmael_Z said:
"My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge. It would have helped with the economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London. That's all I really care about." is the most marvellous bit of cognitive dissonance I have seen in recent years. I want nice stuff within 50 yards of my office, and the taxpayer to foot the bill. There are traditions going as far back as we have history for of the rich paying out of their own pockets to beautify civic spaces for the benefit of all. Why, now that the rich are richer than they have ever been, invert the procedure?JosiasJessop said:
And the tens of millions spent on a bridge (and what was it spent on, and who got it) was the best way of helping that area?Charles said:
No.swing_voter said:
My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge. It would have helped with the economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London. That's all I really care about.
"Economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London"...is that some sort of joke?
The North Bank (wedged between the Strand/Fleet St, Waterloo Bridge and Blackfriars Bridge) is relatively neglected. The Southbank has been very successfully regenerated; there is always a lot of focus on Trafalgar Square, Soho, etc, but in between there's no attention paid.
The bridge had no purpose, as the report shows. Saying it would help the locals is just desperate floundering. Such benefits should be low-priority positive side effects of a bridge, not the reason.
Perhaps the contractors would accept payment in frequent flyer miles or whatever they are.
It takes a lot to turn me sans-culotte before breakfast, but really...
And I'm not sure I really fancy millions of people a year walking down my street.0 -
"You were much more pleasant before you were ill."Charles said:
My involvement has been limited to hosting one dinner for one individual. That was at the personal request of a friend of my family - as a rule we try to accommodate our friends where possible. As a local, I also saw the benefits to the area.JosiasJessop said:
LOL. Your repeated ramping of the project was hilarious. You even descended to the level of claiming it would help the underprivileged kids of the area (if you really wanted to do that, there are much better ways of spending the tens of millions that have been wasted). You spouted rubbish figures that it turns out you had no evidence for, except for the alleged word of the chairman of the project.Charles said:You really seem to have a bug in your bonnet about this. Probably because about the cycling.
My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge. It would have helped with the economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London. That's all I really care about.
I'm really not fixated on things.
But just bear in mind that Hodges report was entirely designed to achieve a political outcome
The fact you couldn't cycle over the bridge was just one indication that the project was stupid. There were many others. For the record, I am not a keen cyclist atm.
I have got a bee in my bonnet over what was clearly an utterly pointless waste of public money. You were very much in favour, and however much you try to shirk back now, you were involved, even if in a small way.
Tens of millions of public funds have been wasted on a vain-inglorious vanity project. Everyone involved should hang their heads in shame, if not repay the money.
As for your final line: have you even read the report? To take one small point, can you defend the way the contracts were let?
And I object to your suggestion that I don't really want to "help underprivileged kids".
I consider this discussion closed. You were much more pleasant before you were ill.
P*ss off Charles, that's low.
You continually ramped up the project on here, and you now claim it was nowt to do with you. Every one of the arguments I and others gave on here (and which you denied) have been proven in the report, and you don't have the good grace to admit it or (and I live in hope) apologise.
If you wanted to help underprivileged kids, then the Garden bridge is the last thing you'd do. It was just an excuse, and a feeble one at that.-1 -
@damienmcguin: German daily Die Welt: instead of preparing voters for pain of #brexit , May makes impossible promises to win anti-EU UKIP/Labour voters0
-
No voting today in Gateshead.
0 -
In Potters Bar East only the Green and Labour candidates of the 5 live in the ward.OldKingCole said:
Similar to us with LD. Although we were probably going to anyway!ydoethur said:How to decide your vote when nobody bothers to campaign:
1) Look up candidates on website.
2) Realise that of the 4 candidates, only the Green candidate actually lives in this (very safe Labour) ward.
3) Decide to vote Green.
Won't be voting for either of them though.
0 -
It's a statement of fact. You seemed like a nice guy before. Since then you laid into Plato in very personal terms on several occasions, you've accused me of showing off when I cite my sources, and now you impugn my charitable motives.JosiasJessop said:
P*ss off Charles, that's low.
You continually ramped up the project on here, and you now claim it was nowt to do with you. Every one of the arguments I and others gave on here (and which you denied) have been proven in the report, and you don't have the good grace to admit it or (and I live in hope) apologise.
If you wanted to help underprivileged kids, then the Garden bridge is the last thing you'd do. It was just an excuse, and a feeble one at that.
I've no interest in any further conversation with you.
0 -
Atrocious PR, then; if the bulk of the money was private, go the extra mile and say loud and clear that not a brass farthing is coming from the public. Would have made all the difference.Charles said:
The bulk of the money is coming from private sources. Or was before Khan scared away a couple of big donors. The government contribution was (a) a VAT rebate [i.e. foregone tax]; (b) money that was already budgeted to be spent redeveloping Temple tube; and (c) an underwriting which - had Khan not interfered - would have been replaced by private donationsIshmael_Z said:
"My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge. It would have helped with the economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London. That's all I really care about." is the most marvellous bit of cognitive dissonance I have seen in recent years. I want nice stuff within 50 yards of my office, and the taxpayer to foot the bill. There are traditions going as far back as we have history for of the rich paying out of their own pockets to beautify civic spaces for the benefit of all. Why, now that the rich are richer than they have ever been, invert the procedure?JosiasJessop said:
And the tens of millions spent on a bridge (and what was it spent on, and who got it) was the best way of helping that area?Charles said:
No.swing_voter said:
My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge. It would have helped with the economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London. That's all I really care about.
"Economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London"...is that some sort of joke?
The North Bank (wedged between the Strand/Fleet St, Waterloo Bridge and Blackfriars Bridge) is relatively neglected. The Southbank has been very successfully regenerated; there is always a lot of focus on Trafalgar Square, Soho, etc, but in between there's no attention paid.
The bridge had no purpose, as the report shows. Saying it would help the locals is just desperate floundering. Such benefits should be low-priority positive side effects of a bridge, not the reason.
Perhaps the contractors would accept payment in frequent flyer miles or whatever they are.
It takes a lot to turn me sans-culotte before breakfast, but really...
And I'm not sure I really fancy millions of people a year walking down my street.
I think you and your family should step in and pick up the whole tab. The name of the bridge would be deliciously piquant, after Boris's observation that it would serve as a place for seedy romantic liaisons.
0 -
Aside from the build costs it would have been unreasonably expensive to look after.Charles said:
The bulk of the money is coming from private sources. Or was before Khan scared away a couple of big donors. The government contribution was (a) a VAT rebate [i.e. foregone tax]; (b) money that was already budgeted to be spent redeveloping Temple tube; and (c) an underwriting which - had Khan not interfered - would have been replaced by private donationsIshmael_Z said:
"My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge. It would have helped with the economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London. That's all I really care about." is the most marvellous bit of cognitive dissonance I have seen in recent years. I want nice stuff within 50 yards of my office, and the taxpayer to foot the bill. There are traditions going as far back as we have history for of the rich paying out of their own pockets to beautify civic spaces for the benefit of all. Why, now that the rich are richer than they have ever been, invert the procedure?JosiasJessop said:
And the tens of millions spent on a bridge (and what was it spent on, and who got it) was the best way of helping that area?Charles said:
No.swing_voter said:
My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge. It would have helped with the economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London. That's all I really care about.
"Economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London"...is that some sort of joke?
The North Bank (wedged between the Strand/Fleet St, Waterloo Bridge and Blackfriars Bridge) is relatively neglected. The Southbank has been very successfully regenerated; there is always a lot of focus on Trafalgar Square, Soho, etc, but in between there's no attention paid.
The bridge had no purpose, as the report shows. Saying it would help the locals is just desperate floundering. Such benefits should be low-priority positive side effects of a bridge, not the reason.
Perhaps the contractors would accept payment in frequent flyer miles or whatever they are.
It takes a lot to turn me sans-culotte before breakfast, but really...
And I'm not sure I really fancy millions of people a year walking down my street.0 -
Big Tory win incoming in HertsmereHertsmere_Pubgoer said:
In Potters Bar East only the Green and Labour candidates of the 5 live in the ward.OldKingCole said:
Similar to us with LD. Although we were probably going to anyway!ydoethur said:How to decide your vote when nobody bothers to campaign:
1) Look up candidates on website.
2) Realise that of the 4 candidates, only the Green candidate actually lives in this (very safe Labour) ward.
3) Decide to vote Green.
Won't be voting for either of them though.
0 -
m
no mention of who conducted it.. it smells awfully of voodoo.CarlottaVance said:
http://www.hertsad.co.uk/news/general-election-2017-herts-ad-poll-says-anne-main-could-lose-st-albans-1-5000454Omnium said:
Are you sure the Tory and LD figures aren't the wrong way round there?theakes said:A poll in the Hertfordshire Advertiser of 1000 people in St Albans gives:-
Lib Dem 61%, Cons 17%, Labour13%, UKIP 5%, Greens 4%, I have no idea how scientfic that is but it does seem a significant sort of lead.
I recall the Eevening Sentinel in Stoke did a poll a coupole of days before the by election, said it was neck and neck between UKIP and Labour, that was wrong.
2600 base size rather suggests voodoo - or an awfully expensive proper poll for a local paper0 -
Which 'impossible promises'?Scott_P said:@damienmcguin: German daily Die Welt: instead of preparing voters for pain of #brexit , May makes impossible promises to win anti-EU UKIP/Labour voters
0 -
Yes, it's all Khan's fault, obviously. All the critics are wrong, and are to blame for the fact that this glorious piece of architecture - which would surely have become one of the wonders of the world and turned local kids into millionaires overnight - has been cancelled.Charles said:
The bulk of the money is coming from private sources. Or was before Khan scared away a couple of big donors. The government contribution was (a) a VAT rebate [i.e. foregone tax]; (b) money that was already budgeted to be spent redeveloping Temple tube; and (c) an underwriting which - had Khan not interfered - would have been replaced by private donationsIshmael_Z said:
"My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge. It would have helped with the economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London. That's all I really care about." is the most marvellous bit of cognitive dissonance I have seen in recent years. I want nice stuff within 50 yards of my office, and the taxpayer to foot the bill. There are traditions going as far back as we have history for of the rich paying out of their own pockets to beautify civic spaces for the benefit of all. Why, now that the rich are richer than they have ever been, invert the procedure?JosiasJessop said:
And the tens of millions spent on a bridge (and what was it spent on, and who got it) was the best way of helping that area?Charles said:
No.swing_voter said:
My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge. It would have helped with the economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London. That's all I really care about.
"Economic regeneration of a neglected part of central London"...is that some sort of joke?
The North Bank (wedged between the Strand/Fleet St, Waterloo Bridge and Blackfriars Bridge) is relatively neglected. The Southbank has been very successfully regenerated; there is always a lot of focus on Trafalgar Square, Soho, etc, but in between there's no attention paid.
The bridge had no purpose, as the report shows. Saying it would help the locals is just desperate floundering. Such benefits should be low-priority positive side effects of a bridge, not the reason.
Perhaps the contractors would accept payment in frequent flyer miles or whatever they are.
It takes a lot to turn me sans-culotte before breakfast, but really...
And I'm not sure I really fancy millions of people a year walking down my street.
Or alternatively: the project was cancelled because it had no defined purpose, was an over-expensive carbuncle, had been utterly mismanaged, and had some *interesting* approaches to awarding contracts.-1 -
You just click to vote. I did it a few days ago. Do I have to move to St Albans now?SquareRoot said:m
no mention of who conducted it.. it smells awfully of voodoo.CarlottaVance said:
http://www.hertsad.co.uk/news/general-election-2017-herts-ad-poll-says-anne-main-could-lose-st-albans-1-5000454Omnium said:
Are you sure the Tory and LD figures aren't the wrong way round there?theakes said:A poll in the Hertfordshire Advertiser of 1000 people in St Albans gives:-
Lib Dem 61%, Cons 17%, Labour13%, UKIP 5%, Greens 4%, I have no idea how scientfic that is but it does seem a significant sort of lead.
I recall the Eevening Sentinel in Stoke did a poll a coupole of days before the by election, said it was neck and neck between UKIP and Labour, that was wrong.
2600 base size rather suggests voodoo - or an awfully expensive proper poll for a local paper0 -
It doesn't look at all marginal, particularly post-UKIPexit ?Pulpstar said:
Big Tory win incoming in HertsmereHertsmere_Pubgoer said:
In Potters Bar East only the Green and Labour candidates of the 5 live in the ward.OldKingCole said:
Similar to us with LD. Although we were probably going to anyway!ydoethur said:How to decide your vote when nobody bothers to campaign:
1) Look up candidates on website.
2) Realise that of the 4 candidates, only the Green candidate actually lives in this (very safe Labour) ward.
3) Decide to vote Green.
Won't be voting for either of them though.
0 -
Last time the Tory took 48% with UKIP second on 25%Pulpstar said:
Big Tory win incoming in HertsmereHertsmere_Pubgoer said:
In Potters Bar East only the Green and Labour candidates of the 5 live in the ward.OldKingCole said:
Similar to us with LD. Although we were probably going to anyway!ydoethur said:How to decide your vote when nobody bothers to campaign:
1) Look up candidates on website.
2) Realise that of the 4 candidates, only the Green candidate actually lives in this (very safe Labour) ward.
3) Decide to vote Green.
Won't be voting for either of them though.
A big fall in the UKIP vote and a majority over a 1000 (696 2013) this time is my prediction.
Let's hope we can beat the 2013 turnout of 25%
0 -
There is no cause for alarm about the welfare of Queen Elizabeth or her husband Prince Philip after all senior royal staff were summoned to a meeting at Buckingham Palace, a well-placed source told Reuters on Thursday.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-royals-idUSKBN1800HB?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter0 -
Plato laid into me as well, sometimes using similar nasty non-arguments to the one you just have (and worse).Charles said:It's a statement of fact. You seemed like a nice guy before. Since then you laid into Plato in very personal terms on several occasions, you've accused me of showing off when I cite my sources, and now you impugn my charitable motives.
I've no interest in any further conversation with you.
Perhaps I haven't changed, and you're just not used to your arguments not being robustly challenged?
"you've accused me of showing off when I cite my sources"
Well, you continually claimed that you were not one of the establishment, and then talk (often the same day) about the figures of the establishment you've talked to. Worse, you use those conversations as 'evidence' for what you're saying.
"and now you impugn my charitable motives."
I know you do a lot of good work for charity, and I admire that. But that admiration is slightly lessened with what you've said over the Garden Bridge.-1 -
It's hard to believe Labour came within 3,000 votes in 1997, and held the council from 1995-99.IanB2 said:
It doesn't look at all marginal, particularly post-UKIPexit ?Pulpstar said:
Big Tory win incoming in HertsmereHertsmere_Pubgoer said:
In Potters Bar East only the Green and Labour candidates of the 5 live in the ward.OldKingCole said:
Similar to us with LD. Although we were probably going to anyway!ydoethur said:How to decide your vote when nobody bothers to campaign:
1) Look up candidates on website.
2) Realise that of the 4 candidates, only the Green candidate actually lives in this (very safe Labour) ward.
3) Decide to vote Green.
Won't be voting for either of them though.0 -
Abyssinia and Libya say hello. And Spain was busy fighting its own civil war. Japan was busy invading Manchuria. Stalin was busy liquidating his own people.IanB2 said:
Except that the drive to war came from one place and one place only. Italy was never particularly keen and Spain stayed out throughout. And of course extremism was fuelled by economic discontent which, as you say, stemmed from a crisis in capitalism - exacerbated in Germany by the impact of the treaty terms.Casino_Royale said:The Treaty of Versailles as the principal driver for WWII doesn't explain the rise in fascism in Spain, Italy, Germany and Eastern Europe during the 1920s, and 1930s, nor the rise of communism in others, most obviously Russia, nor aggressive nationalism in Japan.
Both fascism and communism looked like the future, and more modern, to many over democracy at the time.
I'd argue the principal driver was the newly industrialised nation states, driven by ethnic nationalism and a perverted interpretation of Darwinism, wishing to fight and compete with the established dominant powers of the British Empire, United States, and France, for space and to do so quickly, in response to the economic troubles of the interwar years, by being far more ruthless and exploitative.
So, actually, it wasn't hugely dissimilar to WWI in causes, but far more darkly ideological.
All of that happened before Hitler kicked off. Yes, the Treaty of Versailles didn't help. Would we have avoided WWII if it was less punitive, assuming Germany would always have needed to sign a form of peace treaty for WWI?
I very much doubt it.0 -
The UK is interfering in the French election:
https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/8598838110642094080 -
When did Farage become the UK?SouthamObserver said:The UK is interfering in the French election:
https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/8598838110642094080 -
Bollocks. Farage is a private citizen. I mean its not like he actually attends the EUParl, or say anything worthwhile thereSouthamObserver said:The UK is interfering in the French election:
https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/859883811064209408 0 -
The Treaty of Versailles was not particularly harsh.Casino_Royale said:
Abyssinia and Libya say hello. And Spain was busy fighting its own civil war. Japan was busy invading Manchuria. Stalin was busy liquidating his own people.IanB2 said:
Except that the drive to war came from one place and one place only. Italy was never particularly keen and Spain stayed out throughout. And of course extremism was fuelled by economic discontent which, as you say, stemmed from a crisis in capitalism - exacerbated in Germany by the impact of the treaty terms.Casino_Royale said:The Treaty of Versailles as the principal driver for WWII doesn't explain the rise in fascism in Spain, Italy, Germany and Eastern Europe during the 1920s, and 1930s, nor the rise of communism in others, most obviously Russia, nor aggressive nationalism in Japan.
Both fascism and communism looked like the future, and more modern, to many over democracy at the time.
I'd argue the principal driver was the newly industrialised nation states, driven by ethnic nationalism and a perverted interpretation of Darwinism, wishing to fight and compete with the established dominant powers of the British Empire, United States, and France, for space and to do so quickly, in response to the economic troubles of the interwar years, by being far more ruthless and exploitative.
So, actually, it wasn't hugely dissimilar to WWI in causes, but far more darkly ideological.
All of that happened before Hitler kicked off. Yes, the Treaty of Versailles didn't help. Would we have avoided WWII if it was less punitive, assuming Germany would always have needed to sign a form of peace treaty for WWI?
I very much doubt it.0 -
It's not marginal at all.IanB2 said:
It doesn't look at all marginal, particularly post-UKIPexit ?Pulpstar said:
Big Tory win incoming in HertsmereHertsmere_Pubgoer said:
In Potters Bar East only the Green and Labour candidates of the 5 live in the ward.OldKingCole said:
Similar to us with LD. Although we were probably going to anyway!ydoethur said:How to decide your vote when nobody bothers to campaign:
1) Look up candidates on website.
2) Realise that of the 4 candidates, only the Green candidate actually lives in this (very safe Labour) ward.
3) Decide to vote Green.
Won't be voting for either of them though.
Just trying to make it all sound a little more interesting than it really is.
To be fair, if it wasn't for the polling card coming through the door you wouldn't know that there was an election on.
0 -
I get to vote in the Tees Valley metro mayor election today. Which is a stronger message to Corbyn: a lib dems 1 conservatives 2 vote, or just straight up Tory?0
-
The former. Corbyn needs not only to be defeated but some sort of alternative opposition needs to be built.Freggles said:I get to vote in the Tees Valley metro mayor election today. Which is a stronger message to Corbyn: a lib dems 1 conservatives 2 vote, or just straight up Tory?
0 -
Good morning, everyone.
Slept rather terrible. Must be a symptom of election fever.0 -
I thought it looked and sounded neat, but it would appear it was terribly planned and a gigantic waste of public money and people should have known better.Ishmael_Z said:
There seems to have been a lack of candour over finance. I understand that a loose affiliation of millionaires and billionaires were being disingenuous about whether they were going to pay for all of it, or just the barest minimum needed to make them look generous. As with dfid when the rich start being vicariously generous with taxpayers' money it is necessary to remind oneself that tax is also paid by poor people who would prefer their money spent on pedestrian stuff like housing.Charles said:
You really seem to have a bug in your bonnet about this. Probably because about the cycling.JosiasJessop said:
He may be a slimy git, but at least he cancelled the Garden Bridge. That's an indication he has a more sound judgement on the use of public money than you do.Charles said:
That's a loaded way of presenting the question. Someone's specific religion has nothing to do with it. For instance, in principle, I wouldn't have a problem voting for Sadiq Khan*AlastairMeeks said:
Would you therefore refuse ever to vote for a devout Muslim?Charles said:@AlastairMeeks fpt
Re Farron
Elections need to be about character not policies - you can never predicte the decisions they will face
He clearly believes gay sex (although differentiating between that and homosexuality sexuality is classic Anglican sophistry @foxinsox ) is wrong.
That, for me, makes him toxic
I wouldn't vote for anyone who personally believed that a significant proportion of the population were sinning because of their sexual preferences. It doesn't matter whether they were Muslin, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Jew or Pastafarian.
I wouldn't vote for an avowed racist either, or for someone who believe that women should have a lesser status in society.
* Although I think he's a slimy git, so wouldn't vote for him on that basis
By the way, you might want to read Hodge's fairly damning report in the project. You may note many of the criticisms I, and others, made about it, and you roundly denied:
https://www.london.gov.uk/independent-review-garden-bridge-project
My office is within 50 yards of one end of the Bridge.
I'm really not fixated on things.
But just bear in mind that Hodges report was entirely designed to achieve a political outcome
The bridge looked merely weird in the mockups, having large deciduous trees in unrestricted forms growing on it looked like a Chernobyl 20 years on photo of nature re-establishing itself in a deserted city.0 -
Is Farage the head of an International Body?SouthamObserver said:The UK is interfering in the French election:
https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/859883811064209408
Is Farage a leading Parliamentarian?
Does Farage lead the Parliamentary Group on Anglo-French relations?
Desperate much?0 -
Just voted for the WM mayor.
It's disgusting John Lewis was left off the ballot paper.
I had to write him in.
The election's fixed, i tell ye.0 -
Richard Evans argues the real problem with the Treaty of Versailles is it was far too lenient. While it seriously annoyed the Germans, it left their heavy industry and military infrastructure reduced but fundamentally intact, capable of rapid revival, and it left them (along with Saint-German smashing Austria into pieces) the largest and most powerful country in Central and Eastern Europe by a very long distance. Had Germany been broken up into 6-7 different states, he suggested that would have been better. Maybe Hitler would have led Bavaria, but he couldn't have done much with that.Sean_F said:
The Treaty of Versailles was not particularly harsh.Casino_Royale said:
Abyssinia and Libya say hello. And Spain was busy fighting its own civil war. Japan was busy invading Manchuria. Stalin was busy liquidating his own people.IanB2 said:
Except that the drive to war came from one place and one place only. Italy was never particularly keen and Spain stayed out throughout. And of course extremism was fuelled by economic discontent which, as you say, stemmed from a crisis in capitalism - exacerbated in Germany by the impact of the treaty terms.Casino_Royale said:The Treaty of Versailles as the principal driver for WWII doesn't explain the rise in fascism in Spain, Italy, Germany and Eastern Europe during the 1920s, and 1930s, nor the rise of communism in others, most obviously Russia, nor aggressive nationalism in Japan.
Both fascism and communism looked like the future, and more modern, to many over democracy at the time.
I'd argue the principal driver was the newly industrialised nation states, driven by ethnic nationalism and a perverted interpretation of Darwinism, wishing to fight and compete with the established dominant powers of the British Empire, United States, and France, for space and to do so quickly, in response to the economic troubles of the interwar years, by being far more ruthless and exploitative.
So, actually, it wasn't hugely dissimilar to WWI in causes, but far more darkly ideological.
All of that happened before Hitler kicked off. Yes, the Treaty of Versailles didn't help. Would we have avoided WWII if it was less punitive, assuming Germany would always have needed to sign a form of peace treaty for WWI?
I very much doubt it.
But it is easy to be wise with hindsight, and coutnerfactuals are hard to prove. That might indeed have caused the feared communist revolutions to succeed and allowed Russia to carry its influence to the borders of France (when they stopped killing each other).0 -
Yes, I'm leaning that way but the LD candidate seems loopy.IanB2 said:
The former. Corbyn needs not only to be defeated but some sort of alternative opposition needs to be built.Freggles said:I get to vote in the Tees Valley metro mayor election today. Which is a stronger message to Corbyn: a lib dems 1 conservatives 2 vote, or just straight up Tory?
0 -
It's a voodoo poll.logical_song said:
The Newspaper Poll is probably not that reliable. It could however be close in St Albans as there was only a 4% lead by the Tories in 2010 and there's a much bigger Labour vote to squeeze than UKIP.Omnium said:
Are you sure the Tory and LD figures aren't the wrong way round there?theakes said:A poll in the Hertfordshire Advertiser of 1000 people in St Albans gives:-
Lib Dem 61%, Cons 17%, Labour13%, UKIP 5%, Greens 4%, I have no idea how scientfic that is but it does seem a significant sort of lead.
I recall the Eevening Sentinel in Stoke did a poll a coupole of days before the by election, said it was neck and neck between UKIP and Labour, that was wrong.0 -
Buckingham House news incoming....0
-
Allister Heath:
The EU's attempt at First World War-style reparations revenge will only make Britain more united
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/05/03/brussels-bid-make-britain-worse-exposes-economic-illiterates/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw0 -
Do you not want a hyperloopFreggles said:
Yes, I'm leaning that way but the LD candidate seems loopy.IanB2 said:
The former. Corbyn needs not only to be defeated but some sort of alternative opposition needs to be built.Freggles said:I get to vote in the Tees Valley metro mayor election today. Which is a stronger message to Corbyn: a lib dems 1 conservatives 2 vote, or just straight up Tory?
? 0 -
@tnewtondunn: Excl: No10 drawing up a Brexit nuclear option of immediately ending Britain’s annual Budget contributions early;
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3475424/theresa-may-accuses-eu-commission-chief-and-his-aides-of-trying-to-fix-general-election-result-with-deliberately-timed-threats-and-smears-on-tory-government/0 -
That's what the palace announcement will explain.SimonStClare said:
When did Farage become the UK?SouthamObserver said:The UK is interfering in the French election:
https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/8598838110642094080 -
Certainly not.IanB2 said:
You just click to vote. I did it a few days ago. Do I have to move to St Albans now?SquareRoot said:m
no mention of who conducted it.. it smells awfully of voodoo.CarlottaVance said:
http://www.hertsad.co.uk/news/general-election-2017-herts-ad-poll-says-anne-main-could-lose-st-albans-1-5000454Omnium said:
Are you sure the Tory and LD figures aren't the wrong way round there?theakes said:A poll in the Hertfordshire Advertiser of 1000 people in St Albans gives:-
Lib Dem 61%, Cons 17%, Labour13%, UKIP 5%, Greens 4%, I have no idea how scientfic that is but it does seem a significant sort of lead.
I recall the Eevening Sentinel in Stoke did a poll a coupole of days before the by election, said it was neck and neck between UKIP and Labour, that was wrong.
2600 base size rather suggests voodoo - or an awfully expensive proper poll for a local paper
There are enough LibDems in St Albans to ensure flourishing pie production. Ever thought of a move to Glasgow?0 -
Ronaldo, Messi and Griesman to sign for Arsenal, Queen has just announced.0
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Farage is an MEP and leads the party that won most votes in the UK at the last European election. He is interfering in the French election and telling French voters explicitly which way to vote.CarlottaVance said:
Is Farage the head of an International Body?SouthamObserver said:The UK is interfering in the French election:
https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/859883811064209408
Is Farage a leading Parliamentarian?
Does Farage lead the Parliamentary Group on Anglo-French relations?
Desperate much?
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@FraserNelson: Britain must get ready to walk away from Brexit negotiations - leading article in the new @spectator https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/britain-must-get-ready-to-walk-away-from-brexit-negotiations/
The press do seem to be talking up car crash Brexit0 -
Leavers for Fascists is one of the more disturbing trends of 2017.SouthamObserver said:The UK is interfering in the French election:
https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/859883811064209408
I hope no one gambled too much money on the running commentary on pb last night. The unwary might have been shocked to wake up this morning to find that Emmanuel Macron polled as the comprehensive winner:
https://twitter.com/msmithsonpb/status/8598956085718138880 -
The late Victoria Wood's brother?Freggles said:
Yes, I'm leaning that way but the LD candidate seems loopy.IanB2 said:
The former. Corbyn needs not only to be defeated but some sort of alternative opposition needs to be built.Freggles said:I get to vote in the Tees Valley metro mayor election today. Which is a stronger message to Corbyn: a lib dems 1 conservatives 2 vote, or just straight up Tory?
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Do you think they'll listen to him?SouthamObserver said:
Farage is an MEP and leads the party that won most votes in the UK at the last European election. He is interfering in the French election and telling French voters explicitly which way to vote.CarlottaVance said:
Is Farage the head of an International Body?SouthamObserver said:The UK is interfering in the French election:
https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/859883811064209408
Is Farage a leading Parliamentarian?
Does Farage lead the Parliamentary Group on Anglo-French relations?
Desperate much?0 -
So the Tories are hoping to win West Midlands, west of England and teeside? So much ge stuff I've forgotten what would count as a regular bad day vs a terrible one for labour.0
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Farage leads UKIP?SouthamObserver said:
Farage is an MEP and leads the party that won most votes in the UK at the last European election. He is interfering in the French election and telling French voters explicitly which way to vote.CarlottaVance said:
Is Farage the head of an International Body?SouthamObserver said:The UK is interfering in the French election:
https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/859883811064209408
Is Farage a leading Parliamentarian?
Does Farage lead the Parliamentary Group on Anglo-French relations?
Desperate much?
Better tell His Excellency Professor Nuttal VC DSO0 -
Glasgow's a great city to visit. Don't fancy the weather, though.JackW said:
Certainly not.IanB2 said:
You just click to vote. I did it a few days ago. Do I have to move to St Albans now?SquareRoot said:m
no mention of who conducted it.. it smells awfully of voodoo.CarlottaVance said:
http://www.hertsad.co.uk/news/general-election-2017-herts-ad-poll-says-anne-main-could-lose-st-albans-1-5000454Omnium said:
Are you sure the Tory and LD figures aren't the wrong way round there?theakes said:A poll in the Hertfordshire Advertiser of 1000 people in St Albans gives:-
Lib Dem 61%, Cons 17%, Labour13%, UKIP 5%, Greens 4%, I have no idea how scientfic that is but it does seem a significant sort of lead.
I recall the Eevening Sentinel in Stoke did a poll a coupole of days before the by election, said it was neck and neck between UKIP and Labour, that was wrong.
2600 base size rather suggests voodoo - or an awfully expensive proper poll for a local paper
There are enough LibDems in St Albans to ensure flourishing pie production. Ever thought of a move to Glasgow?0 -
The mood music is that way from both sides, it's sensible to prepare for it even if it is just talk.Scott_P said:@FraserNelson: Britain must get ready to walk away from Brexit negotiations - leading article in the new @spectator https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/britain-must-get-ready-to-walk-away-from-brexit-negotiations/
The press do seem to be talking up car crash Brexit0 -
If you think I argue strongly against the Garden Bridge, just wait until I get started on any government plans to build a Hyperloop ...Pulpstar said:
Do you not want a hyperloopFreggles said:
Yes, I'm leaning that way but the LD candidate seems loopy.IanB2 said:
The former. Corbyn needs not only to be defeated but some sort of alternative opposition needs to be built.Freggles said:I get to vote in the Tees Valley metro mayor election today. Which is a stronger message to Corbyn: a lib dems 1 conservatives 2 vote, or just straight up Tory?
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I understand you're on a wind up and we did this last week, but will you please outline what is fascist about MLP? As I said last week its the most overused word in the country these days, its lost its original meaning.AlastairMeeks said:
Leavers for Fascists is one of the more disturbing trends of 2017.SouthamObserver said:The UK is interfering in the French election:
https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/859883811064209408
I hope no one gambled too much money on the running commentary on pb last night. The unwary might have been shocked to wake up this morning to find that Emmanuel Macron polled as the comprehensive winner:
https://twitter.com/msmithsonpb/status/859895608571813888
Oh, and I'd be grateful if you replied with an answer rather than a question.0 -
West of England is a place Labour SHOULD be competitive but they won't be (It is greater Bristol).kle4 said:So the Tories are hoping to win West Midlands, west of England and teeside? So much ge stuff I've forgotten what would count as a regular bad day vs a terrible one for labour.
The hat-trick would be truly awful, watch out too for the margin of victory in Manchester and Liverpool too...
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