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The once super-hot central London market has turned into a “burnt out core” according to buying agents Garrington Property Finders, prompting developers to offer ever-greater incentives to lure buyers.
https://gu.com/p/6cm8t/stw
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MLP seems to be absolutely hammering Macron on his record with employment.
Macron looks eerily like Alan Partridge's boss.
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Accusing your allies of espionage is some dead cat...TheScreamingEagles said:@TheOncoming: I've got it, May wants to get the Mail foaming about Brussels so Dacre won't attack her for dumping the pensions triple lock.
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London property market = Easy come, easy go kind of money tbh.IanB2 said:The once super-hot central London market has turned into a “burnt out core” according to buying agents Garrington Property Finders, prompting developers to offer ever-greater incentives to lure buyers.
https://gu.com/p/6cm8t/stw
Except for the poor shit who finds themselves in 300k of negative equity when the music stops...0 -
It does. It does.Sean_F said:
It must hurt to lose to people who are less wise, wealthy, and well-born than you are.Barnesian said:
The Leavers voted Leave before the analysis was done that showed that, on average, they were older, poorer and less educated than the Remainers. The analysis didn't cause them to vote Leave. They didn't know just how poor, old and poorly educated they were at the time of the vote. Or perhaps they did and it pissed them off.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is the type of arrogant comment that has caused the leave voteBarnesian said:
It won't have helped her with the Remainers as they are educated enough to see through all this play-acting. The Leavers on the other hand ....Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May has caused a storm from those who are Europhiles on here.
However, is any remainer willing to declare whether this has helped or hindered her election chances.
EDIT: To be clear - I'm not blaming them. They can't help being old, poor and less educated.
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Should see if these guys are still going?Beverley_C said:
I will not vote Tory or Labour. If the LDs had a substantial leader I would vote for them, but Farron? For the first time in my adult life, I feel disenfranchised. If there was a "None of the above" option I would be putting my X in it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Above_and_Beyond_Party
But I personally am not a fan of when 'I feel disenfranchised' as a synonym for 'there's no one I particularly want to vote for'. Frankly, the Tories moves since TMay make me think they are not after my vote, and the LDs are doing the same, but I'm not disenfranchised.0 -
Err - I was being ironic. Sorry if it misled you.Ishmael_Z said:
What makes you think such a law would not disenfranchise you? I find intellectual snobbery repulsive, but if you want to indulge in it you run the risk of finding there are people higher up the food chain than you.felix said:
I agree - there should be a law disallowing thickos from the right to vote.Barnesian said:
It won't have helped her with the Remainers as they are educated enough to see through all this play-acting. The Leavers on the other hand ....Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May has caused a storm from those who are Europhiles on here.
However, is any remainer willing to declare whether this has helped or hindered her election chances.
We could call it the meritocracy.0 -
What?Sean_F said:
I'm hoping that May will be our equivalent of General Pinochet.Beverley_C said:
From the article.... "What has been billed as a “Brexit election” is an attempted power grab by the Tories, who wish to take advantage of a Labour party in seeming disarray to secure another five years of power before the reality of Brexit bites."SeanT said:
Here.SouthamObserver said:
I am struggling to see any evidence of the EU interfering in the UK election.CarlottaVance said:
I have not heard Juncker deny the remarks attributed to him either. Or do you approve of the EU interfering in member's domestic politics?SouthamObserver said:
I have not heard any national leader among the EU27 use the confrontational language May did today.eek said:
That downside became fact with the leak from Juncker yesterday....SouthamObserver said:
The downside is that it makes it politically harder for EU leaders to offer up the concessions they will need to make in order for there to be a Brexit deal that works for the UK.Richard_Nabavi said:Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/22/dont-believe-theresa-may-election-wont-change-brexit
That about sums it up for me.
Torturing people and killing them? Or arrested for Human Rights violations and accused of embezzlement?
Odd choice of hero......0 -
I'll bite.Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May has caused a storm from those who are Europhiles on here.
However, is any remainer willing to declare whether this has helped or hindered her election chances.
On balance I think it's helped her as, without doubt, the EU is not liked by the majority. I'm sure this will move a few more UKIP voters over to her. Obviously her statement further alienates people such as myself who like the EU but so what? It just flips us from being 100% certain not to vote for her to being 105% certain not to vote for her.
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Has anyone got a link to watch the French debate? I can't seem to find one0
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http://www.france24.com/en/20170503-live-french-presidential-election-candidates-emmanuel-macron-marine-le-pen-final-debateParistonda said:Has anyone got a link to watch the French debate? I can't seem to find one
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Link?Scott_P said:
Accusing your allies of espionage is some dead cat...TheScreamingEagles said:@TheOncoming: I've got it, May wants to get the Mail foaming about Brussels so Dacre won't attack her for dumping the pensions triple lock.
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You're right on all your points, but Mrs May has completely lost my respect following her "They are trying to steal our election" claim. Not that she would be bothered by that, of course. Despite normal shenanigans I do expect my representatives to behave to certain standards.DavidL said:This election is about Brexit. In Brexit we face one of the more complicated and difficult challenges that we have faced since the war, the outcome of which will have a material effect on peoples' standard of living for a long time to come. The question people have to ask themselves is who is best placed to negotiate us the best result?
And there is only one answer. By electing a thick, incompetent buffoon as leader and then even more incredibly re-electing him Labour have failed to give this country a choice. It is disgraceful self-indulgence, really shameful. Even if you have reservations about May, even if you have serious concerns about the competence of those about her, there is no choice. None.
Of course if the EU are stupid enough to act unreasonably or make ridiculous statements May is going to use the opportunity to ram that message home. It is going to win the election for her so why wouldn't she?0 -
The simultaneous translation doesn't convey the tone of voice well at all. I've switched to the French even at the price of not understanding the occasional bit.0
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In that one post you conflate "poorly educated" with "less educated", when they aren't the same thing at all, and overlook the fact which should be obvious to anyone living in this country that "older" and "less educated" are heavily correlated because of the recent more-will-mean-worse explosion of higher education. Either error is enough to identify you as too thick to vote, no matter what it says on your pretendy degree certificate.Barnesian said:
The Leavers voted Leave before the analysis was done that showed that, on average, they were older, poorer and less educated than the Remainers. The analysis didn't cause them to vote Leave. They didn't know just how poor, old and poorly educated they were at the time of the vote. Or perhaps they did and it pissed them off.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is the type of arrogant comment that has caused the leave voteBarnesian said:
It won't have helped her with the Remainers as they are educated enough to see through all this play-acting. The Leavers on the other hand ....Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May has caused a storm from those who are Europhiles on here.
However, is any remainer willing to declare whether this has helped or hindered her election chances.
EDIT: To be clear - I'm not blaming them. They can't help being old, poor and less educated.0 -
I'm vacillating between spoiling my ballot paper and voting Lib Dem. In all probability it will amount to the same thing in practice.0
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Pick your best local candidate, inspite of the party they belong to.Beverley_C said:
I have been saying something along these lines for a while now. Corbyn, to me, is completely unsuitable for the job he holds never mind that of PM and the LDs have no chance of doing anything significant. Farron seems to be a total lightweight and largely ignoredmidwinter said:
Precisely we're shafted. Can't vote Corbyn obviously, Farron is pointless.eek said:
My very first comment in this thread was how exactly does your remainer supporting Tory change their vote to... This shores up the UKIP to Tory vote and may even get a fair few former kippers out to the polling station voting blue - traditional tories have no where else to go....Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May has caused a storm from those who are Europhiles on here.
However, is any remainer willing to declare whether this has helped or hindered her election chances.
I will not vote Tory or Labour. If the LDs had a substantial leader I would vote for them, but Farron? For the first time in my adult life, I feel disenfranchised. If there was a "None of the above" option I would be putting my X in it.midwinter said:I'll vote May but purely for negative reasons.
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Thanksbrokenwheel said:
http://www.france24.com/en/20170503-live-french-presidential-election-candidates-emmanuel-macron-marine-le-pen-final-debateParistonda said:Has anyone got a link to watch the French debate? I can't seem to find one
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That's a curious, not unproblematic choice - care to expand?Sean_F said:
I'm hoping that May will be our equivalent of General Pinochet.Beverley_C said:
From the article.... "What has been billed as a “Brexit election” is an attempted power grab by the Tories, who wish to take advantage of a Labour party in seeming disarray to secure another five years of power before the reality of Brexit bites."SeanT said:
Here.SouthamObserver said:
I am struggling to see any evidence of the EU interfering in the UK election.CarlottaVance said:
I have not heard Juncker deny the remarks attributed to him either. Or do you approve of the EU interfering in member's domestic politics?SouthamObserver said:
I have not heard any national leader among the EU27 use the confrontational language May did today.eek said:
That downside became fact with the leak from Juncker yesterday....SouthamObserver said:
The downside is that it makes it politically harder for EU leaders to offer up the concessions they will need to make in order for there to be a Brexit deal that works for the UK.Richard_Nabavi said:Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/22/dont-believe-theresa-may-election-wont-change-brexit
That about sums it up for me.0 -
I'm sure your sympathy for the poor and uneducated is much appreciated and they're doffing their caps as I write in awe at your condescensionBarnesian said:
The Leavers voted Leave before the analysis was done that showed that, on average, they were older, poorer and less educated than the Remainers. The analysis didn't cause them to vote Leave. They didn't know just how poor, old and poorly educated they were at the time of the vote. Or perhaps they did and it pissed them off.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is the type of arrogant comment that has caused the leave voteBarnesian said:
It won't have helped her with the Remainers as they are educated enough to see through all this play-acting. The Leavers on the other hand ....Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May has caused a storm from those who are Europhiles on here.
However, is any remainer willing to declare whether this has helped or hindered her election chances.
EDIT: To be clear - I'm not blaming them. They can't help being old, poor and less educated.0 -
OK sorry pass it on to him then.felix said:
Err - I was being ironic. Sorry if it misled you.Ishmael_Z said:
What makes you think such a law would not disenfranchise you? I find intellectual snobbery repulsive, but if you want to indulge in it you run the risk of finding there are people higher up the food chain than you.felix said:
I agree - there should be a law disallowing thickos from the right to vote.Barnesian said:
It won't have helped her with the Remainers as they are educated enough to see through all this play-acting. The Leavers on the other hand ....Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May has caused a storm from those who are Europhiles on here.
However, is any remainer willing to declare whether this has helped or hindered her election chances. We could call it the meritocracy.0 -
Quite civilised! We might have sore feet!kle4 said:
2pm?! Late start to the working day, isn't it?DavidBrackenbury said:
The Northamptonshire count doesn't start until 2pm. Being something of a bellwether county, I will try to report on the count to PBrottenborough said:
iirc it is a mix. Quite a lot are morning. Seem to recall the bbc may not even do an event on the night.rogerh said:When are the declarations for the local election results?Are most Thursday night or are most Friday day?
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I should think every tiny addition to their national percentage will at least encourage them onwards, even though chances of winning many seats remains poor. Journey of a thousand miles, begins with a single step and all that.AlastairMeeks said:I'm vacillating between spoiling my ballot paper and voting Lib Dem. In all probability it will amount to the same thing in practice.
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Dear Mr Dancer: I have written just such a thread though it criticises GB as well. It may well be tosh though as mostly written in the early hours of the morning courtesy of my current insomnia.Morris_Dancer said:I eagerly anticipate the thread condemning the EU's 'Brit-bashing' by circulating £100bn exit bill rumours, leaking private matters, and warning that our country cannot be allowed to succeed.
Not sure whether it was wise of May to speak in the way she did, but I do agree with Mr. (Tim) T on the previous thread about the importance of not being bullied.
And the final point in the article cannot be disagreed with. May has clearly driven the agenda.
Mr. D, quite. It is a silly term.
Mr. Gallowgate, cheers for that thoughtful post.
Corbyn does make things rather simpler. If Labour were led by a leader who wasn't off his rocker, it'd be a more complicated political picture. But then, May wouldn't've called an election.
Mr. Glenn, has she?
I know opinions are divided on what she said, but has anyone who was previously pro-May criticised it? Has anyone who was previously anti-May condemned it?
Edited extra bit: anti-May praised* it?
I do wish the weather would warm up. I am currently sitting in front of a warm fire with scarves round my neck. In May.....0 -
That guy is actually quite a political animal! David Schneiderchestnut said:MLP seems to be absolutely hammering Macron on his record with employment.
Macron looks eerily like Alan Partridge's boss.
An anti Tory, tweets a lot about it, but did play a Tory MP on Knowing Me Knowing You!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUTH7TDqp48
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That is his political opinion. Incarcerate them in a stadium, then torture them. Tens of thousands disappeared. And he supports them.Beverley_C said:
What?Sean_F said:
I'm hoping that May will be our equivalent of General Pinochet.Beverley_C said:
From the article.... "What has been billed as a “Brexit election” is an attempted power grab by the Tories, who wish to take advantage of a Labour party in seeming disarray to secure another five years of power before the reality of Brexit bites."SeanT said:
Here.SouthamObserver said:
I am struggling to see any evidence of the EU interfering in the UK election.CarlottaVance said:
I have not heard Juncker deny the remarks attributed to him either. Or do you approve of the EU interfering in member's domestic politics?SouthamObserver said:
I have not heard any national leader among the EU27 use the confrontational language May did today.eek said:
That downside became fact with the leak from Juncker yesterday....SouthamObserver said:
The downside is that it makes it politically harder for EU leaders to offer up the concessions they will need to make in order for there to be a Brexit deal that works for the UK.Richard_Nabavi said:Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/22/dont-believe-theresa-may-election-wont-change-brexit
That about sums it up for me.
Torturing people and killing them? Or arrested for Human Rights violations and accused of embezzlement?
Odd choice of hero......
Remember he joined UKIP.
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LibDems - Vacillating Here!AlastairMeeks said:I'm vacillating between spoiling my ballot paper and voting Lib Dem. In all probability it will amount to the same thing in practice.
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He was being ironic.Beverley_C said:
What?Sean_F said:
I'm hoping that May will be our equivalent of General Pinochet.Beverley_C said:
From the article.... "What has been billed as a “Brexit election” is an attempted power grab by the Tories, who wish to take advantage of a Labour party in seeming disarray to secure another five years of power before the reality of Brexit bites."SeanT said:
Here.SouthamObserver said:
I am struggling to see any evidence of the EU interfering in the UK election.CarlottaVance said:
I have not heard Juncker deny the remarks attributed to him either. Or do you approve of the EU interfering in member's domestic politics?SouthamObserver said:
I have not heard any national leader among the EU27 use the confrontational language May did today.eek said:
That downside became fact with the leak from Juncker yesterday....SouthamObserver said:
The downside is that it makes it politically harder for EU leaders to offer up the concessions they will need to make in order for there to be a Brexit deal that works for the UK.Richard_Nabavi said:Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/22/dont-believe-theresa-may-election-wont-change-brexit
That about sums it up for me.
Torturing people and killing them? Or arrested for Human Rights violations and accused of embezzlement?
Odd choice of hero......0 -
Yeah, but Tim Farron is like Ed Miliband squared, with less intellect. And "Brexit is bad", while true, is not a viable policy.kle4 said:
I should think every tiny addition to their national percentage will at least encourage them onwards, even though chances of winning many seats remains poor. Journey of a thousand miles, begins with a single step and all that.AlastairMeeks said:I'm vacillating between spoiling my ballot paper and voting Lib Dem. In all probability it will amount to the same thing in practice.
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AlastairMeeks said:
I'm vacillating between spoiling my ballot paper and voting Lib Dem. In all probability it will amount to the same thing in practice.
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From strong and stable to weak and wobbly in a single speech.FF43 said:
You're right on all your points, but Mrs May has completely lost my respect following her "They are trying to steal our election" claim. Not that she would be bothered by that, of course. Despite normal shenanigans I do expect my representatives to behave to certain standards.DavidL said:This election is about Brexit. In Brexit we face one of the more complicated and difficult challenges that we have faced since the war, the outcome of which will have a material effect on peoples' standard of living for a long time to come. The question people have to ask themselves is who is best placed to negotiate us the best result?
And there is only one answer. By electing a thick, incompetent buffoon as leader and then even more incredibly re-electing him Labour have failed to give this country a choice. It is disgraceful self-indulgence, really shameful. Even if you have reservations about May, even if you have serious concerns about the competence of those about her, there is no choice. None.
Of course if the EU are stupid enough to act unreasonably or make ridiculous statements May is going to use the opportunity to ram that message home. It is going to win the election for her so why wouldn't she?0 -
I guess, although it's not like they won't cry like babies if the lock is removed, the memory of the brexit red meat will have faded. Though I guess literally announcing it the same day as a distraction would be a little too blatant.SeanT said:
Almost certainly true. TMay is preparing some unpopular (but correct) policies like scrapping the pensions lock. Britannia Brexit gives her cover.TheScreamingEagles said:@TheOncoming: I've got it, May wants to get the Mail foaming about Brussels so Dacre won't attack her for dumping the pensions triple lock.
Smart politics.0 -
AlastairMeeks said:
I'm vacillating between spoiling my ballot paper and voting Lib Dem. In all probability it will amount to the same thing in practice.
Nahh. Spoil your ballot paper. Draw a penis in the Tory's square.
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Macron talks too fast. He has a rabbit caught in headlights look and is sitting uncomfortably, but is less fidgety than he was before.0
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He failedfelix said:
He was being ironic.Beverley_C said:
What?Sean_F said:
I'm hoping that May will be our equivalent of General Pinochet.Beverley_C said:
From the article.... "What has been billed as a “Brexit election” is an attempted power grab by the Tories, who wish to take advantage of a Labour party in seeming disarray to secure another five years of power before the reality of Brexit bites."SeanT said:
Here.SouthamObserver said:
I am struggling to see any evidence of the EU interfering in the UK election.CarlottaVance said:
I have not heard Juncker deny the remarks attributed to him either. Or do you approve of the EU interfering in member's domestic politics?SouthamObserver said:
I have not heard any national leader among the EU27 use the confrontational language May did today.eek said:
That downside became fact with the leak from Juncker yesterday....SouthamObserver said:
The downside is that it makes it politically harder for EU leaders to offer up the concessions they will need to make in order for there to be a Brexit deal that works for the UK.Richard_Nabavi said:Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/22/dont-believe-theresa-may-election-wont-change-brexit
That about sums it up for me.
Torturing people and killing them? Or arrested for Human Rights violations and accused of embezzlement?
Odd choice of hero......
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We are certainly not without blame. A key mistake from many is to act as though it is all or nothing in such matters. Which is not to say one cannot be more to blame than another, but that's a different, more complicated argument.Cyclefree said:
Dear Mr Dancer: I have written just such a thread though it criticises GB as well. .Morris_Dancer said:I eagerly anticipate the thread condemning the EU's 'Brit-bashing' by circulating £100bn exit bill rumours, leaking private matters, and warning that our country cannot be allowed to succeed.
Not sure whether it was wise of May to speak in the way she did, but I do agree with Mr. (Tim) T on the previous thread about the importance of not being bullied.
And the final point in the article cannot be disagreed with. May has clearly driven the agenda.
Mr. D, quite. It is a silly term.
Mr. Gallowgate, cheers for that thoughtful post.
Corbyn does make things rather simpler. If Labour were led by a leader who wasn't off his rocker, it'd be a more complicated political picture. But then, May wouldn't've called an election.
Mr. Glenn, has she?
I know opinions are divided on what she said, but has anyone who was previously pro-May criticised it? Has anyone who was previously anti-May condemned it?
Edited extra bit: anti-May praised* it?
Glad to see your well enough to post.0 -
In your case yes.Beverley_C said:
He failedfelix said:
He was being ironic.Beverley_C said:
What?Sean_F said:
I'm hoping that May will be our equivalent of General Pinochet.Beverley_C said:
From the article.... "What has been billed as a “Brexit election” is an attempted power grab by the Tories, who wish to take advantage of a Labour party in seeming disarray to secure another five years of power before the reality of Brexit bites."SeanT said:
Here.SouthamObserver said:
I am struggling to see any evidence of the EU interfering in the UK election.CarlottaVance said:
I have not heard Juncker deny the remarks attributed to him either. Or do you approve of the EU interfering in member's domestic politics?SouthamObserver said:
I have not heard any national leader among the EU27 use the confrontational language May did today.eek said:
That downside became fact with the leak from Juncker yesterday....SouthamObserver said:
The downside is that it makes it politically harder for EU leaders to offer up the concessions they will need to make in order for there to be a Brexit deal that works for the UK.Richard_Nabavi said:Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/22/dont-believe-theresa-may-election-wont-change-brexit
That about sums it up for me.
Torturing people and killing them? Or arrested for Human Rights violations and accused of embezzlement?
Odd choice of hero...... 0 -
Swinson will hopefully take charge after the election tbh.AlastairMeeks said:
Yeah, but Tim Farron is like Ed Miliband squared, with less intellect. And "Brexit is bad", while true, is not a viable policy.kle4 said:
I should think every tiny addition to their national percentage will at least encourage them onwards, even though chances of winning many seats remains poor. Journey of a thousand miles, begins with a single step and all that.AlastairMeeks said:I'm vacillating between spoiling my ballot paper and voting Lib Dem. In all probability it will amount to the same thing in practice.
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Teacher and pupil, haha0
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Sunil Prasannan, BSc (Hons), ARCS, PhD, DIC*Barnesian said:
The Leavers voted Leave before the analysis was done that showed that, on average, they were older, poorer and less educated than the Remainers. The analysis didn't cause them to vote Leave. They didn't know just how poor, old and poorly educated they were at the time of the vote. Or perhaps they did and it pissed them off.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is the type of arrogant comment that has caused the leave voteBarnesian said:
It won't have helped her with the Remainers as they are educated enough to see through all this play-acting. The Leavers on the other hand ....Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May has caused a storm from those who are Europhiles on here.
However, is any remainer willing to declare whether this has helped or hindered her election chances.
EDIT: To be clear - I'm not blaming them. They can't help being old, poor and less educated.
*Drunk in ChargeDiploma of Imperial College0 -
How vulgar. And I don't want to inadvertently cast a vote for the woad-daubing classes.MarkHopkins said:AlastairMeeks said:I'm vacillating between spoiling my ballot paper and voting Lib Dem. In all probability it will amount to the same thing in practice.
Nahh. Spoil your ballot paper. Draw a penis in the Tory's square.0 -
I'm just having fun.felix said:
He was being ironic.Beverley_C said:
What?Sean_F said:
I'm hoping that May will be our equivalent of General Pinochet.Beverley_C said:
From the article.... "What has been billed as a “Brexit election” is an attempted power grab by the Tories, who wish to take advantage of a Labour party in seeming disarray to secure another five years of power before the reality of Brexit bites."SeanT said:
Here.SouthamObserver said:
I am struggling to see any evidence of the EU interfering in the UK election.CarlottaVance said:
I have not heard Juncker deny the remarks attributed to him either. Or do you approve of the EU interfering in member's domestic politics?SouthamObserver said:
I have not heard any national leader among the EU27 use the confrontational language May did today.eek said:
That downside became fact with the leak from Juncker yesterday....SouthamObserver said:
The downside is that it makes it politically harder for EU leaders to offer up the concessions they will need to make in order for there to be a Brexit deal that works for the UK.Richard_Nabavi said:Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/22/dont-believe-theresa-may-election-wont-change-brexit
That about sums it up for me.
Torturing people and killing them? Or arrested for Human Rights violations and accused of embezzlement?
Odd choice of hero......0 -
Is this election just a low budget rerun of 2015? This exact sound bite was used by Miliband against Cameron:
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/8598441894162964480 -
The count is not for candidates, it is for the interested public! ie Me.DavidBrackenbury said:
Quite civilised! We might have sore feet!kle4 said:
2pm?! Late start to the working day, isn't it?DavidBrackenbury said:
The Northamptonshire count doesn't start until 2pm. Being something of a bellwether county, I will try to report on the count to PBrottenborough said:
iirc it is a mix. Quite a lot are morning. Seem to recall the bbc may not even do an event on the night.rogerh said:When are the declarations for the local election results?Are most Thursday night or are most Friday day?
Actually that might work out, since I'm going to be at a count until the mid afternoon anyway performing my civic duty. Forget I said anything.0 -
Not sure about 'poorly educated' - the over 60s went to proper universities and got degrees in STEM subjects after doing O levels and A levels - the brats under 40 get GCSEs, study watered down subjects at micky-mouse colleges to get degrees not worth the parchment they're written on and wouldn't know the difference between absorb and adsorb.Sean_F said:
It must hurt to lose to people who are less wise, wealthy, and well-born than you are.Barnesian said:
The Leavers voted Leave before the analysis was done that showed that, on average, they were older, poorer and less educated than the Remainers. The analysis didn't cause them to vote Leave. They didn't know just how poor, old and poorly educated they were at the time of the vote. Or perhaps they did and it pissed them off.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is the type of arrogant comment that has caused the leave voteBarnesian said:
It won't have helped her with the Remainers as they are educated enough to see through all this play-acting. The Leavers on the other hand ....Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May has caused a storm from those who are Europhiles on here.
However, is any remainer willing to declare whether this has helped or hindered her election chances.
EDIT: To be clear - I'm not blaming them. They can't help being old, poor and less educated.
If you don't believe me - ask any recruiter - or University lecturer.0 -
If I was the Agent, I would argue that this was a clear indication of support!!MarkHopkins said:AlastairMeeks said:I'm vacillating between spoiling my ballot paper and voting Lib Dem. In all probability it will amount to the same thing in practice.
Nahh. Spoil your ballot paper. Draw a penis in the Tory's square.0 -
Well, it's not a bad line even if untrue, so makes sense to reuse I suppose. Frankly I'm surprised there's not been more rehashing of 1983 attack lines, Corbyn's been fighting that election for 34 years.Freggles said:Is this election just a low budget rerun of 2015? This exact sound bite was used by Miliband against Cameron:
hts://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/8598441894162964480 -
Cyclefree said:
I do wish the weather would warm up. I am currently sitting in front of a warm fire with scarves round my neck. In May.....
I also have the fire on and a warm cardie.
If this is the sort of weather we are getting post-Brexit then it is simply not good enough and I shall complain. We are paying €100bn for this weather! It is not acceptable!!!
Those pesky Europeans hogging all the good weather
0 -
If my advice is worth anything:AlastairMeeks said:I'm vacillating between spoiling my ballot paper and voting Lib Dem. In all probability it will amount to the same thing in practice.
I would say vote Lib Dem. Because then at least you can feel you tried to make a difference, even if it didn't work.
All spoiling your ballot paper achieves is sending a faint message that the egregious pseudo-Colonel (I think, in your case?) will not bother to heed in the triumph of the count.
As Hornblower said, it is always preferable to do something rather than not to do something.0 -
I think that correctly diagnoses the strategy. But it's a bit too transparent even in our Trumpian age. I think she'll get a short-term bump but she risks depressing the vote of the more sober Tories, who may simply stay at home.HYUFD said:Almost all the Tory gains since 2015 have come from UKIP, in electoral terms playing tough with the EU until the elections are over has few risks for May, especially as Tory Remainers are likely to stick with nurse for fear of Corbyn
0 -
Well, maybe some of the people in line for their few gains might be able to take them forward a bit better. Hopefully so.AlastairMeeks said:
Yeah, but Tim Farron is like Ed Miliband squared, with less intellect. And "Brexit is bad", while true, is not a viable policy.kle4 said:
I should think every tiny addition to their national percentage will at least encourage them onwards, even though chances of winning many seats remains poor. Journey of a thousand miles, begins with a single step and all that.AlastairMeeks said:I'm vacillating between spoiling my ballot paper and voting Lib Dem. In all probability it will amount to the same thing in practice.
0 -
Are you not a member of LDs ?Beverley_C said:
I have been saying something along these lines for a while now. Corbyn, to me, is completely unsuitable for the job he holds never mind that of PM and the LDs have no chance of doing anything significant. Farron seems to be a total lightweight and largely ignoredmidwinter said:
Precisely we're shafted. Can't vote Corbyn obviously, Farron is pointless.eek said:
My very first comment in this thread was how exactly does your remainer supporting Tory change their vote to... This shores up the UKIP to Tory vote and may even get a fair few former kippers out to the polling station voting blue - traditional tories have no where else to go....Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May has caused a storm from those who are Europhiles on here.
However, is any remainer willing to declare whether this has helped or hindered her election chances.
I will not vote Tory or Labour. If the LDs had a substantial leader I would vote for them, but Farron? For the first time in my adult life, I feel disenfranchised. If there was a "None of the above" option I would be putting my X in it.midwinter said:I'll vote May but purely for negative reasons.
0 -
Surreal. I'm wearing shorts and the heating's off. I'm wondering what's wrong with me now!Beverley_C said:Cyclefree said:I do wish the weather would warm up. I am currently sitting in front of a warm fire with scarves round my neck. In May.....
I also have the fire on and a warm cardie.
If this is the sort of weather we are getting post-Brexit then it is simply not good enough and I shall complain. We are paying €100bn for this weather! It is not acceptable!!!
Those pesky Europeans hogging all the good weather0 -
To me, my case is all that mattersfelix said:
In your case yes.Beverley_C said:
He failedfelix said:
He was being ironic.Beverley_C said:
What?Sean_F said:
I'm hoping that May will be our equivalent of General Pinochet.Beverley_C said:
From the article.... "What has been billed as a “Brexit election” is an attempted power grab by the Tories, who wish to take advantage of a Labour party in seeming disarray to secure another five years of power before the reality of Brexit bites."SeanT said:
Here.SouthamObserver said:
I am struggling to see any evidence of the EU interfering in the UK election.CarlottaVance said:
I have not heard Juncker deny the remarks attributed to him either. Or do you approve of the EU interfering in member's domestic politics?SouthamObserver said:
I have not heard any national leader among the EU27 use the confrontational language May did today.eek said:
That downside became fact with the leak from Juncker yesterday....SouthamObserver said:
The downside is that it makes it politically harder for EU leaders to offer up the concessions they will need to make in order for there to be a Brexit deal that works for the UK.Richard_Nabavi said:Try as I might, I'm struggling to see what the downside* of Theresa May's rather vigorous rhetoric is supposed to be. Are people seriously suggesting that the EU27 are such snowflakes that a rebuttal of their own 'Brexit must be a failure' and 'on another galaxy' lines will trigger a reaction which means they slink off and don't do a deal?
* Of course, I can see the downside for the opposition parties.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/22/dont-believe-theresa-may-election-wont-change-brexit
That about sums it up for me.
Torturing people and killing them? Or arrested for Human Rights violations and accused of embezzlement?
Odd choice of hero...... 0 -
'Are you assuming responsibility?' seems to be MLP's catchphrase.0
-
That is what I was saying earlier - having unity around a plan of action is easy, around desired outcomes is not.chestnut said:
Absolutely correct.Richard_Tyndall said:
They can if one understands that the EU and the countries that make up the EU are not the same. This is the same error as trying to paint the EU as Europe.surbiton said:
But we were told by Leavers [ you were NOT one of them; remember you were a Cameroon ] that the EU desperately needed our markets.Richard_Nabavi said:
If they've disappeared, it's entirely because the EU don't want to do a deal.surbiton said:I think the chances of a comprehensive trade deal have disappeared. I cannot read May very well. But hard brexiters can now look forward to their beloved Empire II.
Both statements cannot be correct.
The EU is a political construct, an artificial creation that has gained sentience and is trying to protect itself against what it perceives as an existential threat. It has no interest in the fates of individual countries or the hardships they may suffer as a loss of trade with the UK. All it is interested in is that it survives and that anyone leaving is punished and removed as a threat either 'de facto' or 'in exemplum'.
However, there is the other Europe, the individual countries and they (at least the big players) are not going to let the EU damage their economies through its bloody mindedness and insistence on punishment without a fight.
I am not sure who will win that particular fight but the idea that there is or will be a single 'will' in Europe that will work to our detriment is plainly false.0 -
I'm thinking a small bump for Labour too, as some more waverers rally against this insane PM, and maybe a few LD switchers who at least briefly consider Corbyn the lesser of two evils.NickPalmer said:
I think that correctly diagnoses the strategy. But it's a bit too transparent even in our Trumpian age. I think she'll get a short-term bump but she risks depressing the vote of the more sober Tories, who may simply stay at home.HYUFD said:Almost all the Tory gains since 2015 have come from UKIP, in electoral terms playing tough with the EU until the elections are over has few risks for May, especially as Tory Remainers are likely to stick with nurse for fear of Corbyn
0 -
Shucks @Arthur_Penny you bitArthur_Penny said:
Not sure about 'poorly educated' - the over 60s went to proper universities and got degrees in STEM subjects after doing O levels and A levels - the brats under 40 get GCSEs, study watered down subjects at micky-mouse colleges to get degrees not worth the parchment they're written on and wouldn't know the difference between absorb and adsorb.Sean_F said:
It must hurt to lose to people who are less wise, wealthy, and well-born than you are.Barnesian said:
The Leavers voted Leave before the analysis was done that showed that, on average, they were older, poorer and less educated than the Remainers. The analysis didn't cause them to vote Leave. They didn't know just how poor, old and poorly educated they were at the time of the vote. Or perhaps they did and it pissed them off.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is the type of arrogant comment that has caused the leave voteBarnesian said:
It won't have helped her with the Remainers as they are educated enough to see through all this play-acting. The Leavers on the other hand ....Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May has caused a storm from those who are Europhiles on here.
However, is any remainer willing to declare whether this has helped or hindered her election chances.
EDIT: To be clear - I'm not blaming them. They can't help being old, poor and less educated.
If you don't believe me - ask any recruiter - or University lecturer.
Resist the trolls! 0 -
I suspect you already know there is precedent that such a drawing would count as a vote for the Tories, provided the sketch of said organ does not overspill the Tory box.MarkHopkins said:AlastairMeeks said:I'm vacillating between spoiling my ballot paper and voting Lib Dem. In all probability it will amount to the same thing in practice.
Nahh. Spoil your ballot paper. Draw a penis in the Tory's square.
0 -
As has happened beforeDavidBrackenbury said:
If I was the Agent, I would argue that this was a clear indication of support!!MarkHopkins said:AlastairMeeks said:I'm vacillating between spoiling my ballot paper and voting Lib Dem. In all probability it will amount to the same thing in practice.
Nahh. Spoil your ballot paper. Draw a penis in the Tory's square.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/32658907/election-2015-mp-thanks-voter-for-penis-ballot-paper-mark0 -
Why did you * the K ? ....Sunil_Prasannan said:
Sunil Prasannan, BSc (Hons), ARCS, PhD, DIC*Barnesian said:
The Leavers voted Leave before the analysis was done that showed that, on average, they were older, poorer and less educated than the Remainers. The analysis didn't cause them to vote Leave. They didn't know just how poor, old and poorly educated they were at the time of the vote. Or perhaps they did and it pissed them off.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is the type of arrogant comment that has caused the leave voteBarnesian said:
It won't have helped her with the Remainers as they are educated enough to see through all this play-acting. The Leavers on the other hand ....Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May has caused a storm from those who are Europhiles on here.
However, is any remainer willing to declare whether this has helped or hindered her election chances.
EDIT: To be clear - I'm not blaming them. They can't help being old, poor and less educated.
*Drunk in ChargeDiploma of Imperial College
0 -
It is gloriously hot and sunny here in the West of Ireland and the forecast is the same for the next week.Beverley_C said:Cyclefree said:I do wish the weather would warm up. I am currently sitting in front of a warm fire with scarves round my neck. In May.....
I also have the fire on and a warm cardie.
If this is the sort of weather we are getting post-Brexit then it is simply not good enough and I shall complain. We are paying €100bn for this weather! It is not acceptable!!!
Those pesky Europeans hogging all the good weather0 -
And, he train-watches !Sunil_Prasannan said:
Sunil Prasannan, BSc (Hons), ARCS, PhD, DIC*Barnesian said:
The Leavers voted Leave before the analysis was done that showed that, on average, they were older, poorer and less educated than the Remainers. The analysis didn't cause them to vote Leave. They didn't know just how poor, old and poorly educated they were at the time of the vote. Or perhaps they did and it pissed them off.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is the type of arrogant comment that has caused the leave voteBarnesian said:
It won't have helped her with the Remainers as they are educated enough to see through all this play-acting. The Leavers on the other hand ....Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May has caused a storm from those who are Europhiles on here.
However, is any remainer willing to declare whether this has helped or hindered her election chances.
EDIT: To be clear - I'm not blaming them. They can't help being old, poor and less educated.
*Drunk in ChargeDiploma of Imperial College0 -
Le Pen's 'teacher and pupil' comment was a low blow but considering he was actually talking to her patronisingly, like a teacher would a pupil, it was a pretty good comment, just ambiguous enough to not be seen as an overt insult.
Le Pen tackling him from the left at the moment. It could be Melenchon v Macron.0 -
Surely the point is only a smallish minority of over-60s went to university at all, and a large proportion will not have O-levels or A-levels, rather CSEs. Moreover, I think I am right in saying most universities down to the 1980s prioritised the liberal arts rather than STEM subjects? A lot of the tech (such as it was) and engineering would have been through polys, surely?Arthur_Penny said:
Not sure about 'poorly educated' - the over 60s went to proper universities and got degrees in STEM subjects after doing O levels and A levels - the brats under 40 get GCSEs, study watered down subjects at micky-mouse colleges to get degrees not worth the parchment they're written on and wouldn't know the difference between absorb and adsorb.Sean_F said:
It must hurt to lose to people who are less wise, wealthy, and well-born than you are.Barnesian said:
The Leavers voted Leave before the analysis was done that showed that, on average, they were older, poorer and less educated than the Remainers. The analysis didn't cause them to vote Leave. They didn't know just how poor, old and poorly educated they were at the time of the vote. Or perhaps they did and it pissed them off.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is the type of arrogant comment that has caused the leave voteBarnesian said:
It won't have helped her with the Remainers as they are educated enough to see through all this play-acting. The Leavers on the other hand ....Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May has caused a storm from those who are Europhiles on here.
However, is any remainer willing to declare whether this has helped or hindered her election chances.
EDIT: To be clear - I'm not blaming them. They can't help being old, poor and less educated.
If you don't believe me - ask any recruiter - or University lecturer.0 -
No. I have never joined a political party although I have voted for quite a number of them. I am a very disloyal voter.surbiton said:
Are you not a member of LDs ?Beverley_C said:
I have been saying something along these lines for a while now. Corbyn, to me, is completely unsuitable for the job he holds never mind that of PM and the LDs have no chance of doing anything significant. Farron seems to be a total lightweight and largely ignoredmidwinter said:
Precisely we're shafted. Can't vote Corbyn obviously, Farron is pointless.eek said:
My very first comment in this thread was how exactly does your remainer supporting Tory change their vote to... This shores up the UKIP to Tory vote and may even get a fair few former kippers out to the polling station voting blue - traditional tories have no where else to go....Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May has caused a storm from those who are Europhiles on here.
However, is any remainer willing to declare whether this has helped or hindered her election chances.
I will not vote Tory or Labour. If the LDs had a substantial leader I would vote for them, but Farron? For the first time in my adult life, I feel disenfranchised. If there was a "None of the above" option I would be putting my X in it.midwinter said:I'll vote May but purely for negative reasons.
0 -
Maybe you live farther south than me. Manchester is cold.........ydoethur said:
Surreal. I'm wearing shorts and the heating's off. I'm wondering what's wrong with me now!Beverley_C said:Cyclefree said:I do wish the weather would warm up. I am currently sitting in front of a warm fire with scarves round my neck. In May.....
I also have the fire on and a warm cardie.
If this is the sort of weather we are getting post-Brexit then it is simply not good enough and I shall complain. We are paying €100bn for this weather! It is not acceptable!!!
Those pesky Europeans hogging all the good weather0 -
Cannock's not ridiculously far south of Manchester.Beverley_C said:
Maybe you live farther south than me. Manchester is cold.........ydoethur said:
Surreal. I'm wearing shorts and the heating's off. I'm wondering what's wrong with me now!Beverley_C said:Cyclefree said:I do wish the weather would warm up. I am currently sitting in front of a warm fire with scarves round my neck. In May.....
I also have the fire on and a warm cardie.
If this is the sort of weather we are getting post-Brexit then it is simply not good enough and I shall complain. We are paying €100bn for this weather! It is not acceptable!!!
Those pesky Europeans hogging all the good weather
The architecture isn't as good though.0 -
Ah, the GLORIOUS British pastime of trainspotting!surbiton said:
And, he train-watches !Sunil_Prasannan said:
Sunil Prasannan, BSc (Hons), ARCS, PhD, DIC*Barnesian said:
The Leavers voted Leave before the analysis was done that showed that, on average, they were older, poorer and less educated than the Remainers. The analysis didn't cause them to vote Leave. They didn't know just how poor, old and poorly educated they were at the time of the vote. Or perhaps they did and it pissed them off.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is the type of arrogant comment that has caused the leave voteBarnesian said:
It won't have helped her with the Remainers as they are educated enough to see through all this play-acting. The Leavers on the other hand ....Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May has caused a storm from those who are Europhiles on here.
However, is any remainer willing to declare whether this has helped or hindered her election chances.
EDIT: To be clear - I'm not blaming them. They can't help being old, poor and less educated.
*Drunk in ChargeDiploma of Imperial College0 -
And that the fight wasn't started by us.Peter_the_Punter said:
Yes, I'm very much of that persuasion myself, Yokel, but for the small qualification that one has to believe it's something worth fighting for.Y0kel said:I'm not sure some people, perhaps because they just refuse to get their head around it, get what May is aiming at here.
You could say it's swivel eyed racist, ignorant, or my favourite, the pat on the head pitying 'misled' people who voted Leave but Ive said it before and its worth saying again. There is an innate British trait that we neither like nor yield when people back us against the wall.
The standard British reaction is 'yeah? Come on then, do your worst. We'll still be standing'
That isn't just a Brexit-mind, its a British trait.
I've always taken a mild view of May - calm manner uited to difficult times, pity about her policies. But she's starting to sound alarmingly egomaniacal, in a very un-British sort of way.0 -
That vote would be worth around 16p a year in short money to the LDs.AlastairMeeks said:I'm vacillating between spoiling my ballot paper and voting Lib Dem. In all probability it will amount to the same thing in practice.
0 -
Hey, Jack W, don't worry! My ELBOWs wil protect you!JackW said:
Why did you * the K ? ....Sunil_Prasannan said:
Sunil Prasannan, BSc (Hons), ARCS, PhD, DIC*Barnesian said:
The Leavers voted Leave before the analysis was done that showed that, on average, they were older, poorer and less educated than the Remainers. The analysis didn't cause them to vote Leave. They didn't know just how poor, old and poorly educated they were at the time of the vote. Or perhaps they did and it pissed them off.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is the type of arrogant comment that has caused the leave voteBarnesian said:
It won't have helped her with the Remainers as they are educated enough to see through all this play-acting. The Leavers on the other hand ....Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May has caused a storm from those who are Europhiles on here.
However, is any remainer willing to declare whether this has helped or hindered her election chances.
EDIT: To be clear - I'm not blaming them. They can't help being old, poor and less educated.
*Drunk in ChargeDiploma of Imperial College0 -
Le Pen smiles too much when talking, it's a very thin cold smile, sharklike. It makes her look smug.0
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I don't dare watch, sort of hoping for a poor, no vote will change damp squib of a debate tbh.Paristonda said:Le Pen smiles too much when talking, it's a very thin cold smile, sharklike. It makes her look smug.
0 -
To be fair to him, Macron seems to be doing better in this debate than he has before.0
-
Yes - and with TM on record as saying she'd be willing to launch a nuclear first strike, he may well be the safer option as well as the saner one.kle4 said:
I'm thinking a small bump for Labour too, as some more waverers rally against this insane PM, and maybe a few LD switchers who at least briefly consider Corbyn the lesser of two evils.NickPalmer said:
I think that correctly diagnoses the strategy. But it's a bit too transparent even in our Trumpian age. I think she'll get a short-term bump but she risks depressing the vote of the more sober Tories, who may simply stay at home.HYUFD said:Almost all the Tory gains since 2015 have come from UKIP, in electoral terms playing tough with the EU until the elections are over has few risks for May, especially as Tory Remainers are likely to stick with nurse for fear of Corbyn
0 -
***Brexit Klaxon***0
-
The taller candidate is winning. Handily.Paristonda said:Le Pen smiles too much when talking, it's a very thin cold smile, sharklike. It makes her look smug.
0 -
This French debate is a mess. Just them two arguing over each other about anything. Moderator needs to step in.0
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Its not his forte I think (I'm not watching)brokenwheel said:To be fair to him, Macron seems to be doing better in this debate than he has before.
0 -
From the start, Britain will pay between 60 and 80 billion euros because of Brexit - straight out of Macron's mouth just now in the debate0
-
Sorry ! I confused with another Beverly who is an LD member.Beverley_C said:
No. I have never joined a political party although I have voted for quite a number of them. I am a very disloyal voter.surbiton said:
Are you not a member of LDs ?Beverley_C said:
I have been saying something along these lines for a while now. Corbyn, to me, is completely unsuitable for the job he holds never mind that of PM and the LDs have no chance of doing anything significant. Farron seems to be a total lightweight and largely ignoredmidwinter said:
Precisely we're shafted. Can't vote Corbyn obviously, Farron is pointless.eek said:
My very first comment in this thread was how exactly does your remainer supporting Tory change their vote to... This shores up the UKIP to Tory vote and may even get a fair few former kippers out to the polling station voting blue - traditional tories have no where else to go....Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May has caused a storm from those who are Europhiles on here.
However, is any remainer willing to declare whether this has helped or hindered her election chances.
I will not vote Tory or Labour. If the LDs had a substantial leader I would vote for them, but Farron? For the first time in my adult life, I feel disenfranchised. If there was a "None of the above" option I would be putting my X in it.midwinter said:I'll vote May but purely for negative reasons.
0 -
I have the impression that they enjoy debating with each other. They're pretty well matched. It wouldn't be difficult to imagine them going off for a friendly chat and a drink afterwards.Pulpstar said:
I don't dare watch, sort of hoping for a poor, no vote will change damp squib of a debate tbh.Paristonda said:Le Pen smiles too much when talking, it's a very thin cold smile, sharklike. It makes her look smug.
0 -
Well, I'd disagree on that point since she's prepared in a scenario no one expects to arise while he vacillates even with very straightforward scenarios, but in general things haven't been that bad for Labour so far, even though they start from a position they'd really not want to be in at this point.NickPalmer said:
Yes - and with TM on record as saying she'd be willing to launch a nuclear first strike, he may well be the safer option as well as the saner one.kle4 said:
I'm thinking a small bump for Labour too, as some more waverers rally against this insane PM, and maybe a few LD switchers who at least briefly consider Corbyn the lesser of two evils.NickPalmer said:
I think that correctly diagnoses the strategy. But it's a bit too transparent even in our Trumpian age. I think she'll get a short-term bump but she risks depressing the vote of the more sober Tories, who may simply stay at home.HYUFD said:Almost all the Tory gains since 2015 have come from UKIP, in electoral terms playing tough with the EU until the elections are over has few risks for May, especially as Tory Remainers are likely to stick with nurse for fear of Corbyn
0 -
Our 'bill' is their threat to their own electorates.0
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Cannock has architecture??? We are not talking about Hilton Park Services on the M6 are we?ydoethur said:
Cannock's not ridiculously far south of Manchester.Beverley_C said:
Maybe you live farther south than me. Manchester is cold.........ydoethur said:
Surreal. I'm wearing shorts and the heating's off. I'm wondering what's wrong with me now!Beverley_C said:Cyclefree said:I do wish the weather would warm up. I am currently sitting in front of a warm fire with scarves round my neck. In May.....
I also have the fire on and a warm cardie.
If this is the sort of weather we are getting post-Brexit then it is simply not good enough and I shall complain. We are paying €100bn for this weather! It is not acceptable!!!
Those pesky Europeans hogging all the good weather
The architecture isn't as good though.0 -
What time is the YoiuGov poll released?0
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He's essentially threatening the French.Paristonda said:From the start, Britain will pay between 60 and 80 billion euros because of Brexit - straight out of Macron's mouth just now in the debate
0 -
That`s FPTP for you, Mr Meeks. One candidate wins and all the rest lose.AlastairMeeks said:I'm vacillating between spoiling my ballot paper and voting Lib Dem. In all probability it will amount to the same thing in practice.
The problem is that you don`t know for certain who has won until they count the votes.0 -
I used to holiday down in Caherdaniel and it was practically tropical down there. Of course, I was under 10 and as a result all summers were sunny and all beaches were goldenBarnesian said:
It is gloriously hot and sunny here in the West of Ireland and the forecast is the same for the next week.Beverley_C said:Cyclefree said:I do wish the weather would warm up. I am currently sitting in front of a warm fire with scarves round my neck. In May.....
I also have the fire on and a warm cardie.
If this is the sort of weather we are getting post-Brexit then it is simply not good enough and I shall complain. We are paying €100bn for this weather! It is not acceptable!!!
Those pesky Europeans hogging all the good weather 0 -
Who was it who said, before the referendum, that they were undecided and that they would sieve the evidence raised in the campaign and then come to a conclusion? I wonder if they have made their mind up yet. We could do with their cool, calm, rational opinion at this point.0
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Still not 100 billion thenParistonda said:From the start, Britain will pay between 60 and 80 billion euros because of Brexit - straight out of Macron's mouth just now in the debate
0 -
And then there is another view on the subject.
Enter a negotiation as one against twenty seven. That is a bit daunting.
Look at elements of the media, endorsing the inevitability and absolute correctness of most EU proclamations on process, content, settlements etc.
Add in leaks, briefing and disparaging remarks.
What do you do? Nothing, be weak and get walked all over or stand up and fight?
There are a lot of audiences out there that needed a message. They got one.
Today Junker suggested support for Macron. I'm not sure he should do that from his position, also it is pointless as he couldn't support Le Pen.
Will the outburst harm negotiations? No. Will it help? No. Will it make others think before acting? Maybe.
The rather quaint and archaic protestations about how she lacks statesmanship for reacting or her content do belong in an age without social media or rolling news. Get into this century you fuddy duddy Luddites!
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Very different styles of debate though - reminds me of Clegg and Farage in the 2014 EU debates. Both accomplished debaters but in very different ways.Peter_the_Punter said:
I have the impression that they enjoy debating with each other. They're pretty well matched. It wouldn't be difficult to imagine them going off for a friendly chat and a drink afterwards.Pulpstar said:
I don't dare watch, sort of hoping for a poor, no vote will change damp squib of a debate tbh.Paristonda said:Le Pen smiles too much when talking, it's a very thin cold smile, sharklike. It makes her look smug.
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Big Pharma........hello Macron. He's dodging the accusations!0
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Don't tell me there ARE such things as British values and ways now after all?! The accidental slip of saying "British Values" used to be seized upon by a demand for a list w detailed explanations by people of a leftish persuasionNickPalmer said:
And that the fight wasn't started by us.Peter_the_Punter said:
Yes, I'm very much of that persuasion myself, Yokel, but for the small qualification that one has to believe it's something worth fighting for.Y0kel said:I'm not sure some people, perhaps because they just refuse to get their head around it, get what May is aiming at here.
You could say it's swivel eyed racist, ignorant, or my favourite, the pat on the head pitying 'misled' people who voted Leave but Ive said it before and its worth saying again. There is an innate British trait that we neither like nor yield when people back us against the wall.
The standard British reaction is 'yeah? Come on then, do your worst. We'll still be standing'
That isn't just a Brexit-mind, its a British trait.
I've always taken a mild view of May - calm manner uited to difficult times, pity about her policies. But she's starting to sound alarmingly egomaniacal, in a very un-British sort of way.0 -
Or Lamb.Pulpstar said:
Swinson will hopefully take charge after the election tbh.AlastairMeeks said:
Yeah, but Tim Farron is like Ed Miliband squared, with less intellect. And "Brexit is bad", while true, is not a viable policy.kle4 said:
I should think every tiny addition to their national percentage will at least encourage them onwards, even though chances of winning many seats remains poor. Journey of a thousand miles, begins with a single step and all that.AlastairMeeks said:I'm vacillating between spoiling my ballot paper and voting Lib Dem. In all probability it will amount to the same thing in practice.
But voting LD in this election does have some modest benefit even if unlikely to win your constituency.
Green voters shifted mainstream parties agenda in the nineties, and so did the kippers in the noughties. Politicians go where the votes are, albeit grudingly, slowly and eventually.
Vote for sane centrism, vote for positive internationalism, vote LD.0 -
A slight fall in Tory majorities in Surrey is a small price to pay to gain Labour seats in the north and midlandsNickPalmer said:
I think that correctly diagnoses the strategy. But it's a bit too transparent even in our Trumpian age. I think she'll get a short-term bump but she risks depressing the vote of the more sober Tories, who may simply stay at home.HYUFD said:Almost all the Tory gains since 2015 have come from UKIP, in electoral terms playing tough with the EU until the elections are over has few risks for May, especially as Tory Remainers are likely to stick with nurse for fear of Corbyn
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Who is saner in the job of the four last PM's? Blair, Brown, Cameron or incumbent May. I thought Blair and Brown really lost the plot. Not so sure about the two Tories.NickPalmer said:
Yes - and with TM on record as saying she'd be willing to launch a nuclear first strike, he may well be the safer option as well as the saner one.kle4 said:
I'm thinking a small bump for Labour too, as some more waverers rally against this insane PM, and maybe a few LD switchers who at least briefly consider Corbyn the lesser of two evils.NickPalmer said:
I think that correctly diagnoses the strategy. But it's a bit too transparent even in our Trumpian age. I think she'll get a short-term bump but she risks depressing the vote of the more sober Tories, who may simply stay at home.HYUFD said:Almost all the Tory gains since 2015 have come from UKIP, in electoral terms playing tough with the EU until the elections are over has few risks for May, especially as Tory Remainers are likely to stick with nurse for fear of Corbyn
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