Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Get ready for a big psephological debate on Friday on how much

123457

Comments

  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:
    They'll be losing seats past that lot.
    Past 25% majorities?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TGOHF said:

    Gives credence to the rumours that if he does come back to politics it will be with the rebranded LDs - burning his Tory party bridges fast.

    Not really. Confirming his opposition to the swivel-eyed Brexiteers who have taken over the Tory Party perhaps
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PickardJE: 1st EveningStandard editorial from Osborne: "The country should prepare for more tough days ahead as reality bites." http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-a-paper-committed-to-freedom-and-optimism-a3528416.html
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,054
    midwinter said:

    tyson said:



    Macavity May hid during the referendum, she's finding it hard to hide as PM during a GE campaign.

    She popped up in Ormskirk yesterday I think. My brother saw her in the flesh, and like any other person, was massively underwhelmed and he's a diehard Tory.

    I think she'd probably make a very good manager of a tea shop in York...but she has seriously overreached. There is a small part of me that feels sorry for her.

    The likes of Theresa May and Angela Leadsome.....the epitome of parochial, little minded, Tory women. They'd be best left to arrange fetes and that is it.
    that post comes over as dangerously close to "Best leave the proper jobs to men".
    Pretty sure fetes require strong, stable management. Can't imagine Jezza and Diane doing too well. They'd overspend on the cream teas and have to loot the tombola.
    Good fetes require that. Having been to hundreds most are not good.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited May 2017

    Barnesian said:


    She may not be able to remember or handle numbers. Many intelligent people have this disability. Of course, as punters, all of us can handle numbers so we are probably not sympathetic to number dyslexics.

    Surely it is more about getting briefed properly and knowing what you are going to say before you walk into the studio. When I am doing presentations I usually have an A4 sheet with the key facts in 20 pt text. I set it on the table and glance at it if I need to.

    She wasn't even in the studio. She was on the phone, so a) why no crib sheet and b) what were her staff doing while she was floundering?
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Same single source, yet again. She must have proper press with her, surely? Jezza seems to.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,393
    BBC news now showing her Daily Politics interview. This is going to lead all news channels all day.

    Why didn't Yvette Cooper promote the policy - maybe she has more sense
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    Barnesian said:

    She may not be able to remember or handle numbers. Many intelligent people have this disability. Of course, as punters, all of us can handle numbers so we are probably not sympathetic to number dyslexics.

    I would have thought that being able to count is a job requirement for something like Home Secretary. I know Labour have low standards but there has to be some limit.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    When Diane Abbott gets a favourable review compared to the PM...

    @PolhomeEditor: At least Diane Abbott is fronting up today and taking loads of media questions. Unlike the PM, it would seem ... http://www.cornwalllive.com/prime-minister-theresa-may-visits-cornwall-ahead-of-general-election/story-30306323-detail/story.html
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Interesting site although that particular forecast is nearly two weeks old.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: 1st EveningStandard editorial from Osborne: "The country should prepare for more tough days ahead as reality bites." http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-a-paper-committed-to-freedom-and-optimism-a3528416.html

    Project More Fear ?

  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,286
    calum said:

    SLAB have chosen a "Corbynista" to fight DCT - SCON are having a field day !!

    https://twitter.com/DavidMundellDCT/status/859339147852599296

    Damned decent of them to simplify things for the tactical Yoons.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,608
    edited May 2017
    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:

    @ChristianJMay: Editorial in Osborne's first @standardnews - May's "election campaign amounts to no more than a slogan."

    Gives credence to the rumours that if he does come back to politics it will be with the rebranded LDs - burning his Tory party bridges fast.
    George's career in politics is over.

    If Brexit is a success then it really is all over for him in politics.

    If Brexit is a disaster, he's saved this country from economic ruin once, he won't fancy doing it twice.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,837
    edited May 2017
    Barnesian said:

    SeanT said:

    Nigelb said:

    SeanT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't have sound here, but how did the Abbot botch an interview regarding 10k more police ?

    Sounds reasonable enough as a policy, if a bit expensive.

    She first said that 10,000 cops would cost £300,000, when this was pointed out as being absurd, she said they would cost £80 million; when Ferrari pointed out that this meant the cops would be on £8000 a year, she then said they were going to recruit 25,000 officers, not 10,000.

    When again she was pressed on the fact these 10,000 new officers - or 25,000 new officers -
    were only going to be paid £8000 a year at most, on her figures, she suggested that Labour intended to recruit 250,000 new officers.

    When this new figure was questioned, a quarter of a million new policemen and women, she said in actual fact Labour intended to recruit 2000 new officers, and also 250, making 2250.

    When asked why she'd said they intended to recruit 250,000 new officers, she then claimed that she'd never said this, despite just saying it on live radio.

    At this point the interview concluded, with a painful rustling of papers, as Abbott was audibly handed the "right" figures.

    But you have to listen to it, to get the full majesty of excruciating pauses and evasions. It is superb.
    Most striking is her clear innumeracy.

    I don't expect politicians to be fantastic at maths, but the inability to comprehend even orders of magnitude is surely disqualificatory for senior executive positions ?

    Yes, even if you've no idea, and you're making it up on the spot, anyone with an IQ over 90 should be able to make it up better than THAT.

    I wonder if she is just actively dim. Like Corbyn. And she is the proposed new Home Secretary, in charge of peace and justice throughout the realm. Meanwhile John McDonnell, our proposed Chancellor, who will hold the keys to the coffers of the kingdom, gives speeches under the hammer and sickle.

    It's hard to believe it's happening. It's like Labour are throwing animal droppings in our faces, and expecting us to applaud.
    I did wonder that about Abbott - yet she read history at Cambridge so presumably she does have (or did have) some latent intelligence in her head.
    She may not be able to remember or handle numbers. Many intelligent people have this disability. Of course, as punters, all of us can handle numbers so we are probably not sympathetic to number dyslexics.
    That is possible - and would naturally render her unable sensibly to discuss budgetary matters. One can be sympathetic, without thinking her in any way qualified to run a major spending department.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554

    Surely it is more about getting briefed properly and knowing what you are going to say before you walk into the studio. When I am doing presentations I usually have an A4 sheet with the key facts in 20 pt text. I set it on the table and glance at it if I need to.

    Of course you do, that's what any sensible person would do when going on-air to talk about something directly related to their job.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:
    Please elaborate on your theory.
    Well, my guess is you don't assiduously read cornwalllive.com every day of the week, and that you are passing on a link which someone has spammed you with without checking its credibility. The story is now on the BBC but yet again it is sourced from, and only from, cornwalllive.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-39758977

    Also see that link for D. Abbot digging in a hole.
    'Cornwall Live' (and 'Devon Live') is the website of the 'Western Morning News' - the regional daily paper. So, yes, they are 'real' journalists - unwise to 'p*ss' them off I would have thought. The editorial two weeks ago suggested the Conservatives were taking the region for granted again - this rather proves the point.
    J'habite Dartmoor. I don't regularly see the WMN these days, had no idea how bad things were there.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    BBC news now showing her Daily Politics interview. This is going to lead all news channels all day.

    Why didn't Yvette Cooper promote the policy - maybe she has more sense

    She isn't shadow home secretary.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,789
    AndyJS said:

    Interesting site although that particular forecast is nearly two weeks old.
    It's dated May 1st.....
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited May 2017
    On Daily Politics did they pick up Abbott on the fact that the £300 million figure is also wrong?
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Interesting site although that particular forecast is nearly two weeks old.
    It's dated May 1st.....
    On the graph it says "April 19th, 2007".
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Oh dear. I quite like Diane Abbott, but she lacks the essential politician's skill of bluffing when she doesn't know what she's talking about. Theresa May, by contrast, is an expert at it (she would've covered up her lack of knowledge of exact figures with some spiel along the lines of "it will be paid for by the strong and stable economy provided by my strong and stable leadership" without taking any guilty-sounding pauses).
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,286
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Same single source, yet again. She must have proper press with her, surely? Jezza seems to.
    That's what I can't quite understand. You're not going to get Tessy saying anything very interesting, but you'd think the main players would be along to pick up on stuff like this e.g. Sky in Banchory on Saturday.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,054
    glw said:

    Surely it is more about getting briefed properly and knowing what you are going to say before you walk into the studio. When I am doing presentations I usually have an A4 sheet with the key facts in 20 pt text. I set it on the table and glance at it if I need to.

    Of course you do, that's what any sensible person would do when going on-air to talk about something directly related to their job.
    That's the key. I have great respect for many politicians who can recall precise details of a great many things or cobble a reasonable answer together when surprised, but that policy us surely what she was on to talk about, and she clearly had no idea and even if she struggles with numbers they could have written in down for her. Inexplicable.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,480
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Same single source, yet again. She must have proper press with her, surely? Jezza seems to.
    Cornwall is a long way to go to be locked in a room.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Scott_P said:

    When Diane Abbott gets a favourable review compared to the PM...

    @PolhomeEditor: At least Diane Abbott is fronting up today and taking loads of media questions. Unlike the PM, it would seem ... http://www.cornwalllive.com/prime-minister-theresa-may-visits-cornwall-ahead-of-general-election/story-30306323-detail/story.html

    OK, I now see that my "single source" point is impossibly over-complicated, and I'd like to apologise for making it.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    edited May 2017
    TGOHF said:

    BBC news now showing her Daily Politics interview. This is going to lead all news channels all day.

    Why didn't Yvette Cooper promote the policy - maybe she has more sense

    She isn't shadow home secretary.
    Yes it's not like Abbott's been ambushed about some policy issue unrelated to her role. She's doing these interviews because she is meant to be announcing and explaining the proposals related to her area of responsibility.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,978
    SeanT said:

    Fenman said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    Misquoting again Scott. I was referring to the views of the EU nationals on their prospects in the UK, not Brexit overall.

    But that is also nonsense.

    Right now they have free movement, and in future they won't.

    Not even you can describe that as "no change", surely?
    The expectation, which I think is entirely probable, is that those already settled here will continue to have free movement - unless of course you are expecting the EU to say they are not allowed to go home once in a while. I mean I know the EU are making a lot of threats but even they wouldn't go that far would they?
    Scott seems to be labouring under the illusion that the UK government is going to go round the houses of Ealing, ripping away EU passports from weeping Dutchwomen, forcing them to stay in the UK forever.
    But there needs to be considerable clarification. If they go back to their country of origin, say for family reasons, for how long are they entitled to come back? What happens to their health care? Tribunals? The lawyers must be rubbing their hands together!

    Precisely.
    They'll have all their EU rights when they are in the rest of the EU, of course. If they decide to move out of the UK for a considerable time, then they will face the same bureaucratic challenges as, say, Americans, Canadians or Australians who are permanently settled in the UK, and I don't see these people weeping in the street.

    In which case, EU citizens resident here are facing a major loss of their current rights. Unlike Americans, Canadians and Australians currently living in the UK.

  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: 1st EveningStandard editorial from Osborne: "The country should prepare for more tough days ahead as reality bites." http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-a-paper-committed-to-freedom-and-optimism-a3528416.html

    As one would expect, that's a very good piece from the new editor, and the PM would be well advised to heed what he says in the last paragraph.
  • Options
    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Interesting site although that particular forecast is nearly two weeks old.
    It's dated May 1st.....
    On the graph it says "April 19th, 2007".
    One graph is pre-announcement, one is post.
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:

    @ChristianJMay: Editorial in Osborne's first @standardnews - May's "election campaign amounts to no more than a slogan."

    Gives credence to the rumours that if he does come back to politics it will be with the rebranded LDs - burning his Tory party bridges fast.
    George's career in politics is over.

    If Brexit is a success then it really is all over for him in politics.

    If Brexit is a disaster, he's saved this country from economic ruin once, he won't fancy doing it twice.
    If Brexit is a disaster I doubt it will be the Tories entrusted to save the day so he'll need an alternative vehicle.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Interesting site although that particular forecast is nearly two weeks old.
    It's dated May 1st.....
    On the graph it says "April 19th, 2007".
    Scroll down. Second half. May 1st.
    Thanks.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,442
    TGOHF said:

    BBC news now showing her Daily Politics interview. This is going to lead all news channels all day.

    Why didn't Yvette Cooper promote the policy - maybe she has more sense

    She isn't shadow home secretary.
    No doubt Cooper is in her constituency, trying to save her job from the catastrophe that Jezza's cultist have plunged her party into.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,286
    SeanT said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Same single source, yet again. She must have proper press with her, surely? Jezza seems to.
    That's what I can't quite understand. You're not going to get Tessy saying anything very interesting, but you'd think the main players would be along to pick up on stuff like this e.g. Sky in Banchory on Saturday.
    The BBC are there. Duh. Laura Kantspellhersurname is there.
    But nothing from the factory behind the iron curtain.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    SeanT said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Same single source, yet again. She must have proper press with her, surely? Jezza seems to.
    She does, and she's meeting voters

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/859367775600603139
    And if every day for the next 6 weeks features photos like that of her thoroughly at ease with genuine voters the "Macavity" point is going to start looking a bit silly.
  • Options
    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    Surely it is more about getting briefed properly and knowing what you are going to say before you walk into the studio. When I am doing presentations I usually have an A4 sheet with the key facts in 20 pt text. I set it on the table and glance at it if I need to.

    Of course you do, that's what any sensible person would do when going on-air to talk about something directly related to their job.
    That's the key. I have great respect for many politicians who can recall precise details of a great many things or cobble a reasonable answer together when surprised, but that policy us surely what she was on to talk about, and she clearly had no idea and even if she struggles with numbers they could have written in down for her. Inexplicable.
    They're not remembering per se. It's a mixture of bluff, avoiding figures and getting the topic on something they do know inside and out.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,147
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:

    When Diane Abbott gets a favourable review compared to the PM...

    @PolhomeEditor: At least Diane Abbott is fronting up today and taking loads of media questions. Unlike the PM, it would seem ... http://www.cornwalllive.com/prime-minister-theresa-may-visits-cornwall-ahead-of-general-election/story-30306323-detail/story.html

    OK, I now see that my "single source" point is impossibly over-complicated, and I'd like to apologise for making it.
    If multiple journalists who are paid by the same organisation are saying the same thing, is it still a single source?

    I think the accusation you're searching for is in fact bias.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,442
    Danny565 said:

    Oh dear. I quite like Diane Abbott, but she lacks the essential politician's skill of bluffing when she doesn't know what she's talking about. Theresa May, by contrast, is an expert at it (she would've covered up her lack of knowledge of exact figures with some spiel along the lines of "it will be paid for by the strong and stable economy provided by my strong and stable leadership" without taking any guilty-sounding pauses).

    Why doesn't she know what she is talking about? She was talking about a core Home Office issue: police.

    She doesn't know anything about it, because she doesn't take her role as an Opposition spokesperson seriously and doesn't care about anything but playing games within the Labour party over when Jezza is leaving.

    As more than one PBer has asked: why the hell are the public paying Short money for this shower?
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Is there any reason why UK/EU citizens can't enjoy dual citizenship after 5 years residence in one or the other as an expat/migrant?

    Or is that far too simple?
  • Options
    calumcalum Posts: 3,046

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Same single source, yet again. She must have proper press with her, surely? Jezza seems to.
    That's what I can't quite understand. You're not going to get Tessy saying anything very interesting, but you'd think the main players would be along to pick up on stuff like this e.g. Sky in Banchory on Saturday.
    Given that turned into a comedy show - maybee wanting to avoid any repetition?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCVickiYoung: Theresa May has been meeting fishermen in Cornwall and walking around beautiful Mevagissey #GE2017 https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/859374041488138241/video/1
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,442
    Kate McCann‏Verified account @KateEMcCann 2m2 minutes ago

    John Woodcock tells @daily_politics Labour won't win election.

    I hope to God he is right.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    I'm no shill for May, but on the "meeting ordinary voters" - do you not think there is perhaps just the slightest security concern here ?

    I'm sure she will meet some but for obvious reasons she's not going to be able to do spontaneous canvassing in every Labour marginal.
  • Options
    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Scott_P said:

    @BBCVickiYoung: Theresa May has been meeting fishermen in Cornwall and walking around beautiful Mevagissey #GE2017 https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/859374041488138241/video/1

    'locked in a room'
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @faisalislam: In Plymouth... first voxpops - a couple from neighbouring constituency, both Ukip, both now voting Conservative... https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/859374594091880448/photo/1
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,020

    SeanT said:

    Fenman said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    Misquoting again Scott. I was referring to the views of the EU nationals on their prospects in the UK, not Brexit overall.

    But that is also nonsense.

    Right now they have free movement, and in future they won't.

    Not even you can describe that as "no change", surely?
    The expectation, which I think is entirely probable, is that those already settled here will continue to have free movement - unless of course you are expecting the EU to say they are not allowed to go home once in a while. I mean I know the EU are making a lot of threats but even they wouldn't go that far would they?
    Scott seems to be labouring under the illusion that the UK government is going to go round the houses of Ealing, ripping away EU passports from weeping Dutchwomen, forcing them to stay in the UK forever.
    But there needs to be considerable clarification. If they go back to their country of origin, say for family reasons, for how long are they entitled to come back? What happens to their health care? Tribunals? The lawyers must be rubbing their hands together!

    Precisely.
    They'll have all their EU rights when they are in the rest of the EU, of course. If they decide to move out of the UK for a considerable time, then they will face the same bureaucratic challenges as, say, Americans, Canadians or Australians who are permanently settled in the UK, and I don't see these people weeping in the street.

    In which case, EU citizens resident here are facing a major loss of their current rights. Unlike Americans, Canadians and Australians currently living in the UK.

    The Europhiles on here are like the people who say Christmas should be banned or renamed because it offends other religions. Meanwhile the actual members of those other religions are busy getting on with their lives and enjoying sending Christmas cards to their Christian friends.

    You have to find some reason to protest something you don't like even if the people you claim to be speaking for don't have a clue what you are going on about and frankly don't care.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,005
    edited May 2017
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,442
    For those PBers wondering about Broxtowe and Nick P:

    http://www.gregmarshall4broxtowe.org.uk/
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,286
    Scott_P said:

    @BBCVickiYoung: Theresa May has been meeting fishermen in Cornwall and walking around beautiful Mevagissey #GE2017 https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/859374041488138241/video/1

    Jesus H Christ, her minder's wearing tan shoes with a blue suit..
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,442
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2017
    BBC Daily Politics—many Lab MPs privately say they want May as PM rather than Corbyn.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,054

    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    Surely it is more about getting briefed properly and knowing what you are going to say before you walk into the studio. When I am doing presentations I usually have an A4 sheet with the key facts in 20 pt text. I set it on the table and glance at it if I need to.

    Of course you do, that's what any sensible person would do when going on-air to talk about something directly related to their job.
    That's the key. I have great respect for many politicians who can recall precise details of a great many things or cobble a reasonable answer together when surprised, but that policy us surely what she was on to talk about, and she clearly had no idea and even if she struggles with numbers they could have written in down for her. Inexplicable.
    They're not remembering per se. It's a mixture of bluff, avoiding figures and getting the topic on something they do know inside and out.
    I did say 'or cobble a reasonable answer together'. Sometimes they won't know, but they are skilled enough to handle that.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    For those PBers wondering about Broxtowe and Nick P:

    http://www.gregmarshall4broxtowe.org.uk/

    Mentions of Corbo = 0 :D

  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm no shill for May, but on the "meeting ordinary voters" - do you not think there is perhaps just the slightest security concern here ?

    I'm sure she will meet some but for obvious reasons she's not going to be able to do spontaneous canvassing in every Labour marginal.

    Yeah, part of me is actually a bit surprised in this day and age that leaders even get as close to "normal people" as they do.

    In America, were Clinton or Trump let near anyone who hadn't been screened by security already?
  • Options
    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    Surely it is more about getting briefed properly and knowing what you are going to say before you walk into the studio. When I am doing presentations I usually have an A4 sheet with the key facts in 20 pt text. I set it on the table and glance at it if I need to.

    Of course you do, that's what any sensible person would do when going on-air to talk about something directly related to their job.
    That's the key. I have great respect for many politicians who can recall precise details of a great many things or cobble a reasonable answer together when surprised, but that policy us surely what she was on to talk about, and she clearly had no idea and even if she struggles with numbers they could have written in down for her. Inexplicable.
    They're not remembering per se. It's a mixture of bluff, avoiding figures and getting the topic on something they do know inside and out.
    I did say 'or cobble a reasonable answer together'. Sometimes they won't know, but they are skilled enough to handle that.
    Yeah, I was just adding a wee bit of colour to it. It can be quite fun watching some of the better ones and seeing how they handle it. Look for getting the answer to be rephrased to give them 20+ more seconds to think.
  • Options
    DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Icarus said:

    Disraeli said:

    Mr. Glenn, as I've said (although not for a little while) excepting the customs union, which we must leave, I'm open to a pretty wide spectrum of deals. I wouldn't mind if freedom of movement were replaced by freedom to work (ie guaranteed job offer).

    The only new thing I've heard which is unacceptable is the possibility of having EU citizens here governed by EU rather than UK law.

    Do you expect/accept a transition agreement which would be governed by the current arrangements during which time the long term future agreement will be negotiated or do you think it's 'unreasonable' of the EU not to aim to have everything done and dusted by 2019?
    Yes - it IS 'unreasonable' of the EU not to aim to have everything done and dusted by 2019.
    The EU were the ones who put the two year deadline into the Constitution Lisbon Treaty - not us.
    We signed the treaty.
    Yes - and therefore all sides who DID sign should abide by it. :smile:
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,054
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm no shill for May, but on the "meeting ordinary voters" - do you not think there is perhaps just the slightest security concern here ?

    I'm sure she will meet some but for obvious reasons she's not going to be able to do spontaneous canvassing in every Labour marginal.

    I think like many leaders she is wary both security wise and of potential Duffy moments, but we need more to feed this meme than at present.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm no shill for May, but on the "meeting ordinary voters" - do you not think there is perhaps just the slightest security concern here ?

    Seeing as a week and a bit ago the UK security services tipped off their French colleagues about a planned attack on French Presidential candidates I think we can say that there a major security concerns right now.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm no shill for May, but on the "meeting ordinary voters" - do you not think there is perhaps just the slightest security concern here ?

    I'm sure she will meet some but for obvious reasons she's not going to be able to do spontaneous canvassing in every Labour marginal.

    Every time I see May on TV walking around the streets there doesn't seem to be any security, although they must be in the background. But she's the first PM I've seen for a long time that doesn't have security people very close at hand all the time when in public.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,360

    Kate McCann‏Verified account @KateEMcCann 2m2 minutes ago

    John Woodcock tells @daily_politics Labour won't win election.

    I hope to God he is right.

    And thats the best defence against Jeremy Corbyn complainers on the doorstep.

    You don't need to worry about Jeremy. He won't be Prime Minister.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited May 2017
    Abbott car crash has really gazumped the old "how much does a pint of milk cost" question that has tripped up politicians in the past.

    How much does a policeman cost?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,005
    Danny565 said:

    Oh dear. I quite like Diane Abbott, but she lacks the essential politician's skill of bluffing when she doesn't know what she's talking about. Theresa May, by contrast, is an expert at it (she would've covered up her lack of knowledge of exact figures with some spiel along the lines of "it will be paid for by the strong and stable economy provided by my strong and stable leadership" without taking any guilty-sounding pauses).

    She isn't a wet behind the ears innocent who just hasn't learned to lie yet, she is a useless, hypocritical waste of space, and we are paying her wages.

    Jesus why can't people sometimes just admit their side are shit without having to damn the opposition?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    I'll help Labour out here :

    Their plan is to introduce 2,500 police officer a year at a cost of ~ £32,000 per police officer (With £80 million extra ratcheting spend per year) yielding 10,000 officers at an ongoing cost of £320 million additional spending per year at the end of the parliament.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: 1st EveningStandard editorial from Osborne: "The country should prepare for more tough days ahead as reality bites." http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-a-paper-committed-to-freedom-and-optimism-a3528416.html

    As one would expect, that's a very good piece from the new editor, and the PM would be well advised to heed what he says in the last paragraph.
    Interestingly he says neither the referendum nor a GE will give her a mandate ?

    Sounds like GO is in favour of another referendum - how very LD/Blair..
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    Barnesian said:

    SeanT said:

    Nigelb said:

    SeanT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't have sound here, but how did the Abbot botch an interview regarding 10k more police ?

    Sounds reasonable enough as a policy, if a bit expensive.

    She first said that 10,000 cops would cost £300,000, when this was pointed out as being absurd, she said they would cost £80 million; when Ferrari pointed out that this meant the cops would be on £8000 a year, she then said they were going to recruit 25,000 officers, not 10,000.

    When again she was pressed on the fact these 10,000 new officers - or 25,000 new officers -
    were only going to be paid £8000 a year at most, on her figures, she suggested that Labour intended to recruit 250,000 new officers.

    When this new figure was questioned, a quarter of a million new policemen and women, she said in actual fact Labour intended to recruit 2000 new officers, and also 250, making 2250.

    When asked why she'd said they intended to recruit 250,000 new officers, she then claimed that she'd never said this, despite just saying it on live radio.

    At this point the interview concluded, with a painful rustling of papers, as Abbott was audibly handed the "right" figures.

    But you have to listen to it, to get the full majesty of excruciating pauses and evasions. It is superb.
    Most striking is her clear innumeracy.

    I don't expect politicians to be fantastic at maths, but the inability to comprehend even orders of magnitude is surely disqualificatory for senior executive positions ?

    Yes, even if you've no idea, and you're making it up on the spot, anyone with an IQ over 90 should be able to make it up better than THAT.

    I wonder if she is just actively dim. Like Corbyn. And she is the proposed new Home Secretary, in charge of peace and justice throughout the realm. Meanwhile John McDonnell, our proposed Chancellor, who will hold the keys to the coffers of the kingdom, gives speeches under the hammer and sickle.

    It's hard to believe it's happening. It's like Labour are throwing animal droppings in our faces, and expecting us to applaud.
    I did wonder that about Abbott - yet she read history at Cambridge so presumably she does have (or did have) some latent intelligence in her head.
    She may not be able to remember or handle numbers. Many intelligent people have this disability. Of course, as punters, all of us can handle numbers so we are probably not sympathetic to number dyslexics.
    She may, and if she does then she has my sympathy. However, I'd question whether such an individual should ever be appointed to a key front-bench role.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited May 2017

    Very exciting news!

    With all due respect to Nick, I think this may be PB's best chance to get a regular MP below-the-line again at GE 2017. If you are able to help - time, advice or donations - please do get in touch either via Vanilla or the Facebook page below.

    https://twitter.com/Aaron4DonValley/status/859376117144322053

    https://www.facebook.com/Aaron4DonValley/
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm no shill for May, but on the "meeting ordinary voters" - do you not think there is perhaps just the slightest security concern here ?

    I'm sure she will meet some but for obvious reasons she's not going to be able to do spontaneous canvassing in every Labour marginal.

    Yes and no. I'm sure there needs to be some care taken, but it's not like people tool up on the off-chance that a senior politician will knock on their door.

    Additionally, May is somewhat hoist by her own petard here. She did specifically say she wasn't getting involved in televised debates because she wanted to meet ordinary voters one-to-one. That was obvious nonsense, but she can hardly mumble something about security concerns if people say, "where are these ordinary voters, then?"
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,672

    Very exciting news!

    With all due respect to Nick, I think this may be PB's best chance to get a regular MP below-the-line again at GE 2017. If you are able to help - time, advice or donations - please do get in touch either via Vanilla or the Facebook page below.

    https://twitter.com/Aaron4DonValley/status/859376117144322053

    https://www.facebook.com/Aaron4DonValley/
    Is that you?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,608

    Very exciting news!

    With all due respect to Nick, I think this may be PB's best chance to get a regular MP below-the-line again at GE 2017. If you are able to help - time, advice or donations - please do get in touch either via Vanilla or the Facebook page below.

    https://twitter.com/Aaron4DonValley/status/859376117144322053

    https://www.facebook.com/Aaron4DonValley/
    Good luck.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    AndyJS said:

    BBC Daily Politics—many Lab MPs privately say they want May as PM rather than Corbyn.

    Of course they do. If Labour's polling is bad now, just think what it'd be like with Corbyn as PM.

    On the other hand, I get the sense that they feel that May is a relatively easy target with the right Labour leader (though they thought that about the posh boy too).
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MrHarryCole: Diane Abbott cock up leads the BBC 1 o'clock bulletins.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002

    Very exciting news!

    With all due respect to Nick, I think this may be PB's best chance to get a regular MP below-the-line again at GE 2017. If you are able to help - time, advice or donations - please do get in touch either via Vanilla or the Facebook page below.

    https://twitter.com/Aaron4DonValley/status/859376117144322053

    https://www.facebook.com/Aaron4DonValley/
    I don't know what your exact financial situation is, but there are some nice properties around Tickhill for very reasonable money.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,978

    SeanT said:

    Fenman said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    Misquoting again Scott. I was referring to the views of the EU nationals on their prospects in the UK, not Brexit overall.

    But that is also nonsense.

    Right now they have free movement, and in future they won't.

    Not even you can describe that as "no change", surely?
    The expectation, which I think is entirely probable, is that those already settled here will continue to have free movement - unless of course you are expecting the EU to say they are not allowed to go home once in a while. I mean I know the EU are making a lot of threats but even they wouldn't go that far would they?
    Scott seems to be labouring under the illusion that the UK government is going to go round the houses of Ealing, ripping away EU passports from weeping Dutchwomen, forcing them to stay in the UK forever.
    But there needs to be considerable clarification. If they go back to their country of origin, say for family reasons, for how long are they entitled to come back? What happens to their health care? Tribunals? The lawyers must be rubbing their hands together!

    Precisely.
    They'll have all their EU rights when they are in the rest of the EU, of course. If they decide to move out of the UK for a considerable time, then they will face the same bureaucratic challenges as, say, Americans, Canadians or Australians who are permanently settled in the UK, and I don't see these people weeping in the street.

    In which case, EU citizens resident here are facing a major loss of their current rights. Unlike Americans, Canadians and Australians currently living in the UK.

    The Europhiles on here are like the people who say Christmas should be banned or renamed because it offends other religions. Meanwhile the actual members of those other religions are busy getting on with their lives and enjoying sending Christmas cards to their Christian friends.

    You have to find some reason to protest something you don't like even if the people you claim to be speaking for don't have a clue what you are going on about and frankly don't care.

    Yep - I am against taking away rights from people who have chosen to make the UK their home and have contributed so much to it. If you are not, so be it.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Scott_P said:

    @George_Osborne: Also in @EveningStandard: new immigration poll; Abbott's car crash interview;Bloomberg on air pollution & exclusive column by Anthony Joshua

    I've read the Joshua column, it starts well, goes a bit wobbly in the middle but ends in a powerful flurry.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405

    Barnesian said:


    She may not be able to remember or handle numbers. Many intelligent people have this disability. Of course, as punters, all of us can handle numbers so we are probably not sympathetic to number dyslexics.

    Surely it is more about getting briefed properly and knowing what you are going to say before you walk into the studio. When I am doing presentations I usually have an A4 sheet with the key facts in 20 pt text. I set it on the table and glance at it if I need to.

    She wasn't even in the studio. She was on the phone, so a) why no crib sheet and b) what were her staff doing while she was floundering?
    high fiving?
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,393
    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCVickiYoung: Theresa May has been meeting fishermen in Cornwall and walking around beautiful Mevagissey #GE2017 https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/859374041488138241/video/1

    My beautiful homeland. TMay looks reasonably relaxed there, for a slightly awkward person (which she clearly is, and which, I think, elicits sympathy)

    You can also hear someone say Well done Theresa! Presumably a Tory stooge, but nonetheless this is not the locked-in-a-box, voter-averse Maybot of today's tedious meme.

    I suspect there's a lot of goodwill towards her, personally. She's the best we've got, she's going in to bat for Britain, we want and need her to do well, even as we look on, nervously.
    She is in her element canvassing - she has done it all her political life and the idea she is shut away suits some as a narrative but plainly that is not true as videos surface of her trip to meet the fishermen in Cornwall demonstrates. Even Faisal Islam is tweeting a vox pop with 2 UKIP supporters now voting conservative
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Very exciting news!

    With all due respect to Nick, I think this may be PB's best chance to get a regular MP below-the-line again at GE 2017. If you are able to help - time, advice or donations - please do get in touch either via Vanilla or the Facebook page below.

    https://twitter.com/Aaron4DonValley/status/859376117144322053

    https://www.facebook.com/Aaron4DonValley/
    Number 101 on the Labour defence list.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Yep, good luck.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm no shill for May, but on the "meeting ordinary voters" - do you not think there is perhaps just the slightest security concern here ?

    I'm sure she will meet some but for obvious reasons she's not going to be able to do spontaneous canvassing in every Labour marginal.

    I remember John Major and his soapbox in the 1992 general election - at a time when the IRA was active in the UK, never mind random nutters. The security risks can be overblown. Daesh sympathisers are unlikely to be able to rustle up a suicide belt within the 10 minutes or so that she might be in a town centre.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,005

    Very exciting news!

    With all due respect to Nick, I think this may be PB's best chance to get a regular MP below-the-line again at GE 2017. If you are able to help - time, advice or donations - please do get in touch either via Vanilla or the Facebook page below.

    https://twitter.com/Aaron4DonValley/status/859376117144322053

    https://www.facebook.com/Aaron4DonValley/
    Good luck.. snipe those miserable PBers who doubt Mother Theresa!
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,978
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Fenman said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    Misquoting again Scott. I was referring to the views of the EU nationals on their prospects in the UK, not Brexit overall.

    But that is also nonsense.

    Right now they have free movement, and in future they won't.

    Not even you can describe that as "no change", surely?
    The expectation, which I think is entirely probable, is that those already settled here will continue to have free movement - unless of course you are expecting the EU to say they are not allowed to go home once in a while. I mean I know the EU are making a lot of threats but even they wouldn't go that far would they?
    Scott seems to be labouring under the illusion that the UK government is going to go round the houses of Ealing, ripping away EU passports from weeping Dutchwomen, forcing them to stay in the UK forever.
    But there needs to be considerable clarification. If they go back to their country of origin, say for family reasons, for how long are they entitled to come back? What happens to their health care? Tribunals? The lawyers must be rubbing their hands together!

    Precisely.
    They'll have all their EU rights when they are in the rest of the EU, of course. If they decide to move out of the UK for a considerable time, then they will face the same bureaucratic challenges as, say, Americans, Canadians or Australians who are permanently settled in the UK, and I don't see these people weeping in the street.

    In which case, EU citizens resident here are facing a major loss of their current rights. Unlike Americans, Canadians and Australians currently living in the UK.

    Likewise, Brits are going to lose the Freedom of Movement to and within the EU. But the EU citizens in the UK, who keep their EU passports, will have more freedom than the Brits. AND they will nearly all get permanent residency. Their circumstances will be slightly crimped, but it's hardly the apocalypse.

    We lived and loved and worked in each other's countries long before the EU.

    Neither the Brits nor the EU citizens have to lose their rights. It is far from a given that nearly all EU citizens will get permanent residency.

  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,442
    AndyJS said:

    Very exciting news!

    With all due respect to Nick, I think this may be PB's best chance to get a regular MP below-the-line again at GE 2017. If you are able to help - time, advice or donations - please do get in touch either via Vanilla or the Facebook page below.

    https://twitter.com/Aaron4DonValley/status/859376117144322053

    https://www.facebook.com/Aaron4DonValley/
    Number 101 on the Labour defence list.
    I have money on Don falling to Con.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    edited May 2017
    IM not Amber Rudd's biggest fan, but the contrast between her on police numbers vs Diane Abbott is just so stark...

    Rudd - Polished, on her brief and able to answer questions
    Abbott - Not polished, doesn't know the costings (presumably because they never bothered to work it out anyway - why would you will Bill somebody's money) or even divert from questions she doesn't know the answer to
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    calum said:

    SLAB have chosen a "Corbynista" to fight DCT - SCON are having a field day !!

    https://twitter.com/DavidMundellDCT/status/859339147852599296

    Thats DCT a nailed on Con hold now.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,608

    AndyJS said:

    Very exciting news!

    With all due respect to Nick, I think this may be PB's best chance to get a regular MP below-the-line again at GE 2017. If you are able to help - time, advice or donations - please do get in touch either via Vanilla or the Facebook page below.

    https://twitter.com/Aaron4DonValley/status/859376117144322053

    https://www.facebook.com/Aaron4DonValley/
    Number 101 on the Labour defence list.
    I have money on Don falling to Con.
    So have I.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Alistair said:

    calum said:

    SLAB have chosen a "Corbynista" to fight DCT - SCON are having a field day !!

    https://twitter.com/DavidMundellDCT/status/859339147852599296

    Thats DCT a nailed on Con hold now.
    Good, I have a few hundred invested in Mundell I think.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited May 2017
    AndyJS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm no shill for May, but on the "meeting ordinary voters" - do you not think there is perhaps just the slightest security concern here ?

    I'm sure she will meet some but for obvious reasons she's not going to be able to do spontaneous canvassing in every Labour marginal.

    Every time I see May on TV walking around the streets there doesn't seem to be any security, although they must be in the background. But she's the first PM I've seen for a long time that doesn't have security people very close at hand all the time when in public.
    As a youngster I accidentally caused a security incident around Dennis Thatcher....believe me there are lot of people following them at all times and (at least then) they acted first and asked questions later...resulting in me eating dirt as I was jumped on by a whole load of suited apes that appeared from seemingly nowhere.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Very exciting news!

    With all due respect to Nick, I think this may be PB's best chance to get a regular MP below-the-line again at GE 2017. If you are able to help - time, advice or donations - please do get in touch either via Vanilla or the Facebook page below.

    https://twitter.com/Aaron4DonValley/status/859376117144322053

    https://www.facebook.com/Aaron4DonValley/
    Fingers duly crossed for you!
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Very exciting news!

    With all due respect to Nick, I think this may be PB's best chance to get a regular MP below-the-line again at GE 2017. If you are able to help - time, advice or donations - please do get in touch either via Vanilla or the Facebook page below.

    https://twitter.com/Aaron4DonValley/status/859376117144322053

    https://www.facebook.com/Aaron4DonValley/
    Is it you who are standing? If so then well done, but obviously I have to disagree with your Brexit stance.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Roger said:

    Roger said:
    That incident was dreadful and if one outcome of this election is the end of UKIP that would be a reason to celebrate
    I'd prefer an end to Hartlipool.
    The Monkeyhangers are not all bad...
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    calum said:

    SLAB have chosen a "Corbynista" to fight DCT - SCON are having a field day !!

    https://twitter.com/DavidMundellDCT/status/859339147852599296

    Thats DCT a nailed on Con hold now.
    Good, I have a few hundred invested in Mundell I think.
    The odds were nuts. Still are to be honest.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    AndyJS said:

    Very exciting news!

    With all due respect to Nick, I think this may be PB's best chance to get a regular MP below-the-line again at GE 2017. If you are able to help - time, advice or donations - please do get in touch either via Vanilla or the Facebook page below.

    https://twitter.com/Aaron4DonValley/status/859376117144322053

    https://www.facebook.com/Aaron4DonValley/
    Number 101 on the Labour defence list.
    I have money on Don falling to Con.
    For reference, Don Valley last elected a Conservative in 1900 (as part of the then Doncaster constituency). It has been Labour since 1922.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Guardian now leading on Osborne stabbing May in the front.
  • Options
    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Alistair said:

    calum said:

    SLAB have chosen a "Corbynista" to fight DCT - SCON are having a field day !!

    https://twitter.com/DavidMundellDCT/status/859339147852599296

    Thats DCT a nailed on Con hold now.
    Indeed - he's also now anti-Independence, perhaps SLAB are working some form of reverse psychology here !!
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,442
    OrderOrder:

    "Corbyn insists he isn’t embarrassed by Diane Abbott after her clusterf**k this morning. Get your popcorn ready, she’s touring the studios again this afternoon…"
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Very exciting news!

    With all due respect to Nick, I think this may be PB's best chance to get a regular MP below-the-line again at GE 2017. If you are able to help - time, advice or donations - please do get in touch either via Vanilla or the Facebook page below.

    https://twitter.com/Aaron4DonValley/status/859376117144322053

    https://www.facebook.com/Aaron4DonValley/
    Number 101 on the Labour defence list.
    I have money on Don falling to Con.
    Labour would be reduced to about 130 MPs if they lost every seat on the list down to Don Valley, although it's likely they'll hold "easier" places in London and university seats like Exeter, York Central, Hammersmith.
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Scott_P said:

    @MrHarryCole: Diane Abbott cock up leads the BBC 1 o'clock bulletins.

    Also their top on-line story. – A key policy and an Abbott cluster of monumental proportions.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405
    @Tissue_Price

    good luck
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,442

    AndyJS said:

    Very exciting news!

    With all due respect to Nick, I think this may be PB's best chance to get a regular MP below-the-line again at GE 2017. If you are able to help - time, advice or donations - please do get in touch either via Vanilla or the Facebook page below.

    https://twitter.com/Aaron4DonValley/status/859376117144322053

    https://www.facebook.com/Aaron4DonValley/
    Number 101 on the Labour defence list.
    I have money on Don falling to Con.
    For reference, Don Valley last elected a Conservative in 1900 (as part of the then Doncaster constituency). It has been Labour since 1922.
    Indeed. I have bet quite heavily on a Labour wipeout on a scale not seen since, say the 1920s. Recent polling has made me a little nervous (how the hell are they are on 28-29%???), but holding my nerve so far.
  • Options
    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    edited May 2017
    SPURS
This discussion has been closed.