politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Who’d be best for Britian – Macron or Le Pen. YouGov finds LEA
Comments
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Butbutbutbut that was never going to happen.RobD said:
Because, thank god, we weren't in it when it became a fully fledged country.GeoffM said:
Why do we not get money back?foxinsoxuk said:
I think that probably correct. Any significant bill will be a political suicide pill for the MPs backing paying it. It could well be why May wants a big majority. It is the Leave Fundamentalists ratber than the Remainers who pose the biggest threat to her.Patrick said:
I presume the final bill for diamond Brexit will be £0.01 - but with a free finger wave attached.foxinsoxuk said:
The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.AlastairMeeks said:
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.Peter_the_Punter said:
Be sensible, Alastair.Sean_F said:
Most of us think she's far too liberal.AlastairMeeks said:It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there
2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome
3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood
4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
The Scots thought that they were entitled to 10% of everything back including 10% of all shared embassy floor space.
Why do the EU not, on the same measure, owe us 1/27th of everything?
I lots of people said "status quo" - and not in a musical context.0 -
The schoolgirl in the article sounds as if she was severely triggered by Turner's comments.OldKingCole said:
I thought Farron had made it clear that he didn’t hold those viewsThe_Taxman said:I wonder if this MP will be replaced? I mean retired or forced to step down? Maybe he will defect to the Lib Dems as he would find his views similar to Tim Farron!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4455962/Student-says-MP-told-class-homosexuality-wrong.html
Hopefully, the School will allow her time off to seek counselling.0 -
Ah the "he started it" line of logic.surbiton said:
As far as the extreme right on this site are concerned, if they hurl abuse it is their freedom to express.justin124 said:
OK. Theresa May is an ugly, *itch ! No swear words used !
Just because you are rude doesn't mean I have to be and that applies to you too and those you call extreme right. Just because someone else swears doesn't mean I'd become a misogynist.
I have too much respect for my mother, wife and daughters to use your language about female politicians I oppose. If you don't that says more about you than anyone else.0 -
The largest country for UK goods exported is the US.SouthamObserver said:
We don't send 40%+ of our exports to the US. We send them to the member states of the European Union.GeoffM said:
The US? How did they come into this thread?SouthamObserver said:
Yep, makes sense for us to want economic turmoil visited on our biggest export market.GeoffM said:
You were right up to the final sentence. If we want to secure the largest possible payment and the smoothest possible clean WTO exit it surely assists us to have an EU in turmoil rather than Macron parroting German lines?foxinsoxuk said:
As the EU27 have clearly and consistently stated, Brexit means Brexit.AlastairMeeks said:
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.Peter_the_Punter said:
Be sensible, Alastair.Sean_F said:
Most of us think she's far too liberal.AlastairMeeks said:It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there
2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome
3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood
4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
Hardline leavers should be very happy with the EU position, they are clear that there is no halfway house soft Brexit. The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.
As suchhardline Leavers should support Macron.0 -
My thoughts exactly. The EU want to insist on the hardest of Brexits, then they are saying goodbye to any payments of any kind.Patrick said:
I presume the final bill for diamond Brexit will be £0.01 - but with a free finger wave attached.foxinsoxuk said:
The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.AlastairMeeks said:
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.Peter_the_Punter said:
Be sensible, Alastair.Sean_F said:
Most of us think she's far too liberal.AlastairMeeks said:It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there
2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome
3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood
4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
There can be no settlement on the final bill until the future relationship is understood. The most I'd offer, is to agree in principle what items could fall under a Brexit bill if, and only if, there is a satisfactory agreement for going forward, and that the amounts involved will be related to the attractiveness of that future agreement.
No deal, no payments, period.0 -
Maybe your criticism would have some validity if Alastair actually expressed support for Orban. AFAIK he hasn't. Otherwise it's just as nonsensical as complaining about people doing things in Hitler's Germany or Trump's AmericaSeanT said:
At least they haven't happily bought houses in countries run by actual Fascists, as you have, in Orban's Hungary, which you now apparently consider your "spiritual home".AlastairMeeks said:
More than 8 out of 10 leavers who expressed a preference deciding to root for the fascist is quite a monolithic bloc.isam said:
What the referendum seems to have done is to transform people who for years had been saying that society was more nuanced than meets the eye, who avoided stereotyping of people on flimsy evidence, who protested that groups of people were not "a monolith", into the people they used to criticise!AlastairMeeks said:
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.Peter_the_Punter said:
Be sensible, Alastair.Sean_F said:
Most of us think she's far too liberal.AlastairMeeks said:It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there
2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome
3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood
4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.0 -
"The schoolgirl in the article sounds as if she was severely triggered by Turner's comments."
Have you checked whether she in fact identifies as a schoolgirl, and not as a 52-year-old Canadian man, say?
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My error. I shouldn't have presumed to assign her a gender.JeremyBeadle said:"The schoolgirl in the article sounds as if she was severely triggered by Turner's comments."
Have you checked whether she in fact identifies as a schoolgirl, and not as a 52-year-old Canadian man, say?0 -
Genug!RobD said:
Only a little?foxinsoxuk said:
Ich Kenne ein bisschen Deutsch!RobD said:
Have you tried the English translation?foxinsoxuk said:
It does seem that in Bangladesh copies of Mein Kampf sell well:nunu said:
proof?JeremyBeadle said:
It must be hard to get elected in, say, Tower Hamlets, without sharing many opinions with Adolf.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8382132.stm
Mind you, I have a copy on Kindle myself. It is pretty unreadable.
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I prefer reading the hardback version.foxinsoxuk said:
It does seem that in Bangladesh copies of Mein Kampf sell well:nunu said:
proof?JeremyBeadle said:
It must be hard to get elected in, say, Tower Hamlets, without sharing many opinions with Adolf.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8382132.stm
Mind you, I have a copy on Kindle myself. It is pretty unreadable.
It can be quite a conversation starter on a train.0 -
Private Eye's had stories for years on what voters on the IoW have to put up with in their MP. It gives the impression that if it wasn't 'pig with a blue rosette' territory he'd lose the seat or be deselected.The_Taxman said:
I think the Tories on the isle of White have some beef with him about his relationship with his wife. Maybe someone wants to prise him out of the seat? From what I remember of the "scandal" I was puzzled as he looked to be the victim rather than the perpetrator of anything but my memory may be playing tricks! Politics can be very harsh.Pong said:
That's a very odd article. What's the Mail got against Andrew Turner?The_Taxman said:I wonder if this MP will be replaced? I mean retired or forced to step down? Maybe he will defect to the Lib Dems as he would find his views similar to Tim Farron!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4455962/Student-says-MP-told-class-homosexuality-wrong.html
Did Dacre fall out with him at a drinks party, or something?
The Eye hasn't bothered to cover the IoW since 2015. Judging by its contents, it has many other stories to cover.
This is what some voters have to put up with in safe seats, I'm afraid. I think MPs in marginals are possibly chosen more carefully.0 -
They can keep our 1/27th of that giant Egg they built in Brussels. We'll take cash instead.SeanT said:
They do. They don't mention it in their communiques, but it has been the subject of discussion. The EU has assets for which we have paid about 15-20% of the cost, at least.GeoffM said:
Why do we not get money back?foxinsoxuk said:
I think that probably correct. Any significant bill will be a political suicide pill for the MPs backing paying it. It could well be why May wants a big majority. It is the Leave Fundamentalists ratber than the Remainers who pose the biggest threat to her.Patrick said:
I presume the final bill for diamond Brexit will be £0.01 - but with a free finger wave attached.foxinsoxuk said:
The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.AlastairMeeks said:
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.Peter_the_Punter said:
Be sensible, Alastair.Sean_F said:
Most of us think she's far too liberal.AlastairMeeks said:It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there
2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome
3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood
4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
The Scots thought that they were entitled to 10% of everything back including 10% of all shared embassy floor space.
Why do the EU not, on the same measure, owe us 1/27th of everything?
Divvying it up won't be easy.0 -
"Yvette Cooper-flavoured Baileys" - ugh - that's one bitter beverage.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
True. The kids are all over-excited from playing with all the toys Ed Balls brought them. The adults have all been swigging sickly, Yvette Cooper-flavoured Baileys since 10am. It's an incendiary mix.RobD said:
It always gets like this over Ed Balls dinner.SirNorfolkPassmore said:People are being quite tetchy on here today.
It is as if some people have forgotten the true meaning of Ed Balls Day. Sad.0 -
Private Eye has had sevweral columns devoted to Mr T’s activities over the yearsGeoffM said:
It's a little bit more complicated. His girlfriend had an affair with a prominent fellow Conservative:The_Taxman said:
I think the Tories on the isle of White have some beef with him about his relationship with his wife. Maybe someone wants to prise him out of the seat? From what I remember of the "scandal" I was puzzled as he looked to be the victim rather than the perpetrator of anything but my memory may be playing tricks! Politics can be very harsh.Pong said:
That's a very odd article. What's the Mail got against Andrew Turner?The_Taxman said:I wonder if this MP will be replaced? I mean retired or forced to step down? Maybe he will defect to the Lib Dems as he would find his views similar to Tim Farron!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4455962/Student-says-MP-told-class-homosexuality-wrong.html
Did Dacre fall out with him at a drinks party, or something?
https://onthewight.com/andrew-turner-mp-split-due-affair/0 -
"The EU has assets for which we have paid about 15-20% of the cost, at least.
Divvying it up won't be easy."
The Costa Del Sol?0 -
Are they going to want that £1.7bn that Cameron and Osborne ruddy well wouldn't pay?!RobD said:
They can keep our 1/27th of that giant Egg they built in Brussels. We'll take cash instead.SeanT said:
They do. They don't mention it in their communiques, but it has been the subject of discussion. The EU has assets for which we have paid about 15-20% of the cost, at least.GeoffM said:
Why do we not get money back?foxinsoxuk said:
I think that probably correct. Any significant bill will be a political suicide pill for the MPs backing paying it. It could well be why May wants a big majority. It is the Leave Fundamentalists ratber than the Remainers who pose the biggest threat to her.Patrick said:
I presume the final bill for diamond Brexit will be £0.01 - but with a free finger wave attached.foxinsoxuk said:
The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.AlastairMeeks said:
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.Peter_the_Punter said:
Be sensible, Alastair.Sean_F said:
Most of us think she's far too liberal.AlastairMeeks said:It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there
2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome
3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood
4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
The Scots thought that they were entitled to 10% of everything back including 10% of all shared embassy floor space.
Why do the EU not, on the same measure, owe us 1/27th of everything?
Divvying it up won't be easy. 0 -
Historically the seat has been fairly tightly contested with the LDs. Indeed it was LD held from 97 to 01.rural_voter said:
Private Eye's had stories for years on what voters on the IoW have to put up with in their MP. It gives the impression that if it wasn't 'pig with a blue rosette' territory he'd lose the seat or be deselected.The_Taxman said:
I think the Tories on the isle of White have some beef with him about his relationship with his wife. Maybe someone wants to prise him out of the seat? From what I remember of the "scandal" I was puzzled as he looked to be the victim rather than the perpetrator of anything but my memory may be playing tricks! Politics can be very harsh.Pong said:
That's a very odd article. What's the Mail got against Andrew Turner?The_Taxman said:I wonder if this MP will be replaced? I mean retired or forced to step down? Maybe he will defect to the Lib Dems as he would find his views similar to Tim Farron!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4455962/Student-says-MP-told-class-homosexuality-wrong.html
Did Dacre fall out with him at a drinks party, or something?
The Eye hasn't bothered to cover the IoW since 2015. Judging by its contents, it has many other stories to cover.
This is what some voters have to put up with in safe seats, I'm afraid. I think MPs in marginals are possibly chosen more carefully.
2015 was one of the biggest swings against the LDs in England.0 -
"Austria’s green-left President, Alexander Van der Bellen, suggested in a talk to a group of students that in order to counter Islamophobia, there could come a day “when we must ask all women to wear a headscarf — all of them — out of solidarity towards those who do it for religious reasons”.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/pope-benedict-xvi-condemns-radical-islam-as-creating-an-explosive-situation/news-story/ad73144c880dcab3b5bca22a2db602180 -
Any ideas why the Greens did so well there?foxinsoxuk said:
Historically the seat has been fairly tightly contested with the LDs. Indeed it was LD held from 97 to 01.rural_voter said:
Private Eye's had stories for years on what voters on the IoW have to put up with in their MP. It gives the impression that if it wasn't 'pig with a blue rosette' territory he'd lose the seat or be deselected.The_Taxman said:
I think the Tories on the isle of White have some beef with him about his relationship with his wife. Maybe someone wants to prise him out of the seat? From what I remember of the "scandal" I was puzzled as he looked to be the victim rather than the perpetrator of anything but my memory may be playing tricks! Politics can be very harsh.Pong said:
That's a very odd article. What's the Mail got against Andrew Turner?The_Taxman said:I wonder if this MP will be replaced? I mean retired or forced to step down? Maybe he will defect to the Lib Dems as he would find his views similar to Tim Farron!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4455962/Student-says-MP-told-class-homosexuality-wrong.html
Did Dacre fall out with him at a drinks party, or something?
The Eye hasn't bothered to cover the IoW since 2015. Judging by its contents, it has many other stories to cover.
This is what some voters have to put up with in safe seats, I'm afraid. I think MPs in marginals are possibly chosen more carefully.
2015 was one of the biggest swings against the LDs in England.0 -
No. There are already more fish and chip shops on the Costas per square mile than anywhere in the UK.JeremyBeadle said:"The EU has assets for which we have paid about 15-20% of the cost, at least.
Divvying it up won't be easy."
The Costa Del Sol?
Make it officially British and it'll just fill up with immigrants and foreigners who can't speak English scrounging the dole in no time.0 -
If macron gets bumped off before the second round of voting does Le Pen become president by default?0
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this site is becoming very attractive to the alt right I'm afraid, will have to come here less often, Sad.0
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Oh dear...Prodicus said:"Austria’s green-left President, Alexander Van der Bellen, suggested in a talk to a group of students that in order to counter Islamophobia, there could come a day “when we must ask all women to wear a headscarf — all of them — out of solidarity towards those who do it for religious reasons”.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/pope-benedict-xvi-condemns-radical-islam-as-creating-an-explosive-situation/news-story/ad73144c880dcab3b5bca22a2db602180 -
With a Ken Livingstone introduction - all part of the Progressive alliance.FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
As long as everyone also wears a cross, shaves their head and all women undergo FGM.Prodicus said:"Austria’s green-left President, Alexander Van der Bellen, suggested in a talk to a group of students that in order to counter Islamophobia, there could come a day “when we must ask all women to wear a headscarf — all of them — out of solidarity towards those who do it for religious reasons”.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/pope-benedict-xvi-condemns-radical-islam-as-creating-an-explosive-situation/news-story/ad73144c880dcab3b5bca22a2db602180 -
Listened to 'More or Less' on Radio 4 earlier tearing Boris's 'facts' to pieces.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08n4lkg
No wonder some people mistake him for Trump.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson/12200562/Boris-Johnson-I-was-mistaken-for-Donald-Trump.html0 -
Jesus, I didn't realise so many of my Jewish friends were anti-semites. I'm going to have to start looking at them in a different way.JeremyBeadle said:"You rambling post is difficult to understand. But are you suggesting that if someone has an opinion against some of the actions of the State of Israel, they are anti-Semitic ?"
Most of the time.
They aren't 100% the same, but just as Leave voters correlate with Le Pen or Trump, people complaining about Israel tend to be anti-semites.0 -
Are you sure? Peter Brand, the LibDem certainly held it in my political lifetime.rural_voter said:
Private Eye's had stories for years on what voters on the IoW have to put up with in their MP. It gives the impression that if it wasn't 'pig with a blue rosette' territory he'd lose the seat or be deselected.The_Taxman said:
I think the Tories on the isle of White have some beef with him about his relationship with his wife. Maybe someone wants to prise him out of the seat? From what I remember of the "scandal" I was puzzled as he looked to be the victim rather than the perpetrator of anything but my memory may be playing tricks! Politics can be very harsh.Pong said:
That's a very odd article. What's the Mail got against Andrew Turner?The_Taxman said:I wonder if this MP will be replaced? I mean retired or forced to step down? Maybe he will defect to the Lib Dems as he would find his views similar to Tim Farron!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4455962/Student-says-MP-told-class-homosexuality-wrong.html
Did Dacre fall out with him at a drinks party, or something?
The Eye hasn't bothered to cover the IoW since 2015. Judging by its contents, it has many other stories to cover.
This is what some voters have to put up with in safe seats, I'm afraid. I think MPs in marginals are possibly chosen more carefully.
In that period of my life I was mostly in Hampshire I went across to campaign against him/them a few times.0 -
Oh dear - and so it begins.Prodicus said:"Austria’s green-left President, Alexander Van der Bellen, suggested in a talk to a group of students that in order to counter Islamophobia, there could come a day “when we must ask all women to wear a headscarf — all of them — out of solidarity towards those who do it for religious reasons”.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/pope-benedict-xvi-condemns-radical-islam-as-creating-an-explosive-situation/news-story/ad73144c880dcab3b5bca22a2db602180 -
They do, and this has been included in the current net total of debt discussed in informed estimates.GeoffM said:
Why do we not get money back?foxinsoxuk said:
I think that probably correct. Any significant bill will be a political suicide pill for the MPs backing paying it. It could well be why May wants a big majority. It is the Leave Fundamentalists ratber than the Remainers who pose the biggest threat to her.Patrick said:
I presume the final bill for diamond Brexit will be £0.01 - but with a free finger wave attached.foxinsoxuk said:
The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.AlastairMeeks said:
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.Peter_the_Punter said:
Be sensible, Alastair.Sean_F said:
Most of us think she's far too liberal.AlastairMeeks said:It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there
2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome
3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood
4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
The Scots thought that they were entitled to 10% of everything back including 10% of all shared embassy floor space.
Why do the EU not, on the same measure, owe us 1/27th of everything?0 -
Good question.paulyork64 said:If macron gets bumped off before the second round of voting does Le Pen become president by default?
Actually, it's a horrible question - but relevant for punters.
I expect the 1st round would get rerun?0 -
May has so little interest in the Brexit negotiations and is approaching them so incompetently, I do wonder if she has some plan where the outcome becomes irrelevant. I hardly think she can spring another of her surprises and will declare Brexit cancelled. Slightly more likely, she doesn't mind a Brexit crash if she can blame it on the EU. Most likely, however, she can't cope. So her main effort goes on preventing anyone discussing Brexit or challenging her on it.foxinsoxuk said:
I think that probably correct. Any significant bill will be a political suicide pill for the MPs backing paying it. It could well be why May wants a big majority. It is the Leave Fundamentalists ratber than the Remainers who pose the biggest threat to her.
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Good evening, everyone.
F1: Vandoorne has a 15 place grid penalty for an engine failure. Frankly, I don't think this will affect his race much.0 -
From the constitution (google translated from French)Pong said:
Good question.paulyork64 said:If macron gets bumped off before the second round of voting does Le Pen become president by default?
Actually, it's a horrible question - but relevant for punters.
I expect the 1st round would get rerun?
"In the event of the death or incapacity of one of the two most favored candidates in the first round before any withdrawals, the Constitutional Council declares that all electoral operations must be re-conducted; The same shall apply in the event of the death or incapacity of one of the two candidates remaining for the second round."0 -
Betfair market voided perhaps ?Pong said:
Good question.paulyork64 said:If macron gets bumped off before the second round of voting does Le Pen become president by default?
Actually, it's a horrible question - but relevant for punters.
I expect the 1st round would get rerun?
Lay Le Pen rather than back Macron I guess.0 -
We have all seen how badly she handles PMQs, even up against Corbyn, is frightened of TV debates or even real voters.FF43 said:Most likely, however, she can't cope. So her main effort goes on preventing anyone discussing Brexit or challenging her on it.
The slightest thing completely knocks her off her game.
Just imagine how she will handle the real negotiations once they start...0 -
What are the assets? I guess they are loans made to national and regional governments. Is that right?SeanT said:
They do. They don't mention it in their communiques, but it has been the subject of discussion. The EU has assets for which we have paid about 15-20% of the cost, at least.GeoffM said:
Why do we not get money back?foxinsoxuk said:
I think that probably correct. Any significant bill will be a political suicide pill for the MPs backing paying it. It could well be why May wants a big majority. It is the Leave Fundamentalists ratber than the Remainers who pose the biggest threat to her.Patrick said:
I presume the final bill for diamond Brexit will be £0.01 - but with a free finger wave attached.foxinsoxuk said:
The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.AlastairMeeks said:
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.Peter_the_Punter said:
Be sensible, Alastair.Sean_F said:
Most of us think she's far too liberal.AlastairMeeks said:It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there
2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome
3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood
4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
The Scots thought that they were entitled to 10% of everything back including 10% of all shared embassy floor space.
Why do the EU not, on the same measure, owe us 1/27th of everything?
Divvying it up won't be easy.
0 -
People who use it are virtue signallingSeanT said:
Who is alt right on here? Also, WHAT is alt right?nunu said:this site is becoming very attractive to the alt right I'm afraid, will have to come here less often, Sad.
It's one of those voguish phrases which, on analysis, breaks down into meaninglessness, in my experience. But maybe you can enlighten.0 -
thank you. sounds a very sensible rule.RobD said:
From the constitution (google translated from French)Pong said:
Good question.paulyork64 said:If macron gets bumped off before the second round of voting does Le Pen become president by default?
Actually, it's a horrible question - but relevant for punters.
I expect the 1st round would get rerun?
"In the event of the death or incapacity of one of the two most favored candidates in the first round before any withdrawals, the Constitutional Council declares that all electoral operations must be re-conducted; The same shall apply in the event of the death or incapacity of one of the two candidates remaining for the second round."0 -
@jeremycorbyn: Theresa May is hiding from the public and TV debates with me because she is too weak to defend her record. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/28/theresa-may-accused-of-hiding-from-public-at-activist-filled-event-leeds0
-
Yes, I know. But we still send over 40% of all our exports to EU member states. I remain to be convinced that seeing them cope with the economic turmoil caused by a Le Pen win would do us much good.GeoffM said:
The largest country for UK goods exported is the US.SouthamObserver said:
We don't send 40%+ of our exports to the US. We send them to the member states of the European Union.GeoffM said:
The US? How did they come into this thread?SouthamObserver said:
Yep, makes sense for us to want economic turmoil visited on our biggest export market.GeoffM said:
You were right up to the final sentence. If we want to secure the largest possible payment and the smoothest possible clean WTO exit it surely assists us to have an EU in turmoil rather than Macron parroting German lines?foxinsoxuk said:
As the EU27 have clearly and consistently stated, Brexit means Brexit.AlastairMeeks said:
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.Peter_the_Punter said:
Be sensible, Alastair.Sean_F said:
Most of us think she's far too liberal.AlastairMeeks said:It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there
2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome
3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood
4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
Hardline leavers should be very happy with the EU position, they are clear that there is no halfway house soft Brexit. The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.
As suchhardline Leavers should support Macron.
0 -
Sorry, should have posted the link:sarissa said:
They do, and this has been included in the current net total of debt discussed in informed estimates.GeoffM said:
Why do we not get money back?foxinsoxuk said:
I think that probably correct. Any significant bill will be a political suicide pill for the MPs backing paying it. It could well be why May wants a big majority. It is the Leave Fundamentalists ratber than the Remainers who pose the biggest threat to her.Patrick said:
I presume the final bill for diamond Brexit will be £0.01 - but with a free finger wave attached.foxinsoxuk said:
The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.AlastairMeeks said:
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.Peter_the_Punter said:
Be sensible, Alastair.Sean_F said:
Most of us think she's far too liberal.AlastairMeeks said:It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there
2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome
3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood
4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
The Scots thought that they were entitled to 10% of everything back including 10% of all shared embassy floor space.
Why do the EU not, on the same measure, owe us 1/27th of everything?
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiUiZLjycfTAhXkJcAKHSQAB7kQFggyMAI&url=https://www.cer.org.uk/sites/default/files/pb_barker_brexit_bill_3feb17.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGSC3MTfHmDRlZcaXhDDF90wE5Obw0 -
She has in the past proposed - in all seriousness - that the European Union becomes the European Christian Union, and that is should stand as a bulwark against Islam.Paristonda said:
Her niece is less of a fascist than a fundamentalist religious crusader. A catholic ultra. She's liberal on economics so no fan of a large powerful state and doesn't even seem to like the idea of la republique (she has been caught associating with pro-monarchy groups in France). She's always on about 'judeo-christian' war with islam and her focus is on being socially conservative rather than 'populist'.Fenster said:
Can we have a Number 5 please?AlastairMeeks said:It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there
2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome
3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood
4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
5) I'd do her niece? Fascist or not.
*I've always been a shallow bastard.0 -
Sounds like a euphemism from VizThe_Taxman said:
If it was 1st April, Ken Livingstone would be going for the PHD with Baroness Tongue.FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
All of us ?SeanT said:
Thank you. I should also say that if you ever feel like fucking off to your beloved quasi-fucking-Nazi Hungary and not ever fucking coming back, all of us here will be sincerely rooting for you. Go for it. Make the break. Be bold!AlastairMeeks said:
Two grotesque factual errors in a single sentence.SeanT said:
At least they haven't happily bought houses in countries run by actual Fascists, as you have, in Orban's Hungary, which you now apparently consider your "spiritual home".AlastairMeeks said:
More than 8 out of 10 leavers who expressed a preference deciding to root for the fascist is quite a monolithic bloc.isam said:
What the referendum seems to have done is to transform people who for years had been saying that society was more nuanced than meets the eye, who avoided stereotyping of people on flimsy evidence, who protested that groups of people were not "a monolith", into the people they used to criticise!AlastairMeeks said:
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.Peter_the_Punter said:
Be sensible, Alastair.Sean_F said:
Most of us think she's far too liberal.AlastairMeeks said:It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there
2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome
3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood
4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
You're improving.
In your own words, 'fuck off'.0 -
As ever, she will take her lead from the right-wing Brexit press.Scott_P said:
We have all seen how badly she handles PMQs, even up against Corbyn, is frightened of TV debates or even real voters.FF43 said:Most likely, however, she can't cope. So her main effort goes on preventing anyone discussing Brexit or challenging her on it.
The slightest thing completely knocks her off her game.
Just imagine how she will handle the real negotiations once they start...
0 -
Only a day or two ago, I was thinking that we've seen nothing from the poster 'Mildred Herring' lately.Richard_Tyndall said:On topic
Almost all thread headers have a byline - TSE or Mike or some other contributor.
I do find it amusing that when a thread header is quite clearly utter bollocks and makes claims unsupported by the basic data, no one is honest enough to actually put their name to it.
If a political party made a dishonest claim like this in their flyers then this site would be all over it.
Good evening, everyone.0 -
SO
I'm presuming you are actually looking forward to tearing up your Spurs bets this weekend.... touch a lot of wood? That win at Palace was massive.0 -
Maybe she is better at politics than showbizScott_P said:
We have all seen how badly she handles PMQs, even up against Corbyn, is frightened of TV debates or even real voters.FF43 said:Most likely, however, she can't cope. So her main effort goes on preventing anyone discussing Brexit or challenging her on it.
The slightest thing completely knocks her off her game.
Just imagine how she will handle the real negotiations once they start...0 -
Evening, Mr.D.Morris_Dancer said:Good evening, everyone.
F1: Vandoorne has a 15 place grid penalty for an engine failure. Frankly, I don't think this will affect his race much.
Do you concur with my Ferrari bet ?0 -
Lots of Lib dem roadside signs "winning here" en route to lynton/ Lorna Doone country.0
-
There is a slight Totnes hippie like appeal of parts of the Wight, and also a lot of feeling that the Wight is dominated by a few closely connected people. Island politics can be very insular (of course).RobD said:
Any ideas why the Greens did so well there?foxinsoxuk said:
Historically the seat has been fairly tightly contested with the LDs. Indeed it was LD held from 97 to 01.rural_voter said:
Private Eye's had stories for years on what voters on the IoW have to put up with in their MP. It gives the impression that if it wasn't 'pig with a blue rosette' territory he'd lose the seat or be deselected.The_Taxman said:
I think the Tories on the isle of White have some beef with him about his relationship with his wife. Maybe someone wants to prise him out of the seat? From what I remember of the "scandal" I was puzzled as he looked to be the victim rather than the perpetrator of anything but my memory may be playing tricks! Politics can be very harsh.Pong said:
That's a very odd article. What's the Mail got against Andrew Turner?The_Taxman said:I wonder if this MP will be replaced? I mean retired or forced to step down? Maybe he will defect to the Lib Dems as he would find his views similar to Tim Farron!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4455962/Student-says-MP-told-class-homosexuality-wrong.html
Did Dacre fall out with him at a drinks party, or something?
The Eye hasn't bothered to cover the IoW since 2015. Judging by its contents, it has many other stories to cover.
This is what some voters have to put up with in safe seats, I'm afraid. I think MPs in marginals are possibly chosen more carefully.
2015 was one of the biggest swings against the LDs in England.
There is also quite a lot of low wage employment and poverty*, so like Cornwall a fairly strong left wing rural radical tradition. The LDs were usually the beneficiary of this, so particularly punished for the coalition. There was also a bodged school reorganisation at the time, and the Green candidate was an activist teacher campaigning on the issue.
*Incomes and employment on the Wight are roughly the same as Merseyside, very different to the rest of rural SE England.0 -
Van Der Bellend more likeProdicus said:"Austria’s green-left President, Alexander Van der Bellen, suggested in a talk to a group of students that in order to counter Islamophobia, there could come a day “when we must ask all women to wear a headscarf — all of them — out of solidarity towards those who do it for religious reasons”.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/pope-benedict-xvi-condemns-radical-islam-as-creating-an-explosive-situation/news-story/ad73144c880dcab3b5bca22a2db602180 -
A bit fishy, if you ask me...AnneJGP said:
Only a day or two ago, I was thinking that we've seen nothing from the poster 'Mildred Herring' lately.Richard_Tyndall said:On topic
Almost all thread headers have a byline - TSE or Mike or some other contributor.
I do find it amusing that when a thread header is quite clearly utter bollocks and makes claims unsupported by the basic data, no one is honest enough to actually put their name to it.
If a political party made a dishonest claim like this in their flyers then this site would be all over it.
Good evening, everyone.0 -
Self haters is the Mad Mel approved term.rcs1000 said:
Jesus, I didn't realise so many of my Jewish friends were anti-semites. I'm going to have to start looking at them in a different way.JeremyBeadle said:"You rambling post is difficult to understand. But are you suggesting that if someone has an opinion against some of the actions of the State of Israel, they are anti-Semitic ?"
Most of the time.
They aren't 100% the same, but just as Leave voters correlate with Le Pen or Trump, people complaining about Israel tend to be anti-semites.0 -
Yeah but look at the way George Osborne skilfully outmanoeuvred her by getting sacked from the cabinet, resigning from the HofC and getting a job at the Shtaaaaan-dud #cunningSeanT said:
And yet, funnily enough she has become Tory leader, the most popular PM in many years, and is now cruising to an unexpected and enormous election victory (after everyone accused her of dithering), an election where she might defeat the Opposition so severely it will take them another decade or more to recover, if they ever do.Scott_P said:
We have all seen how badly she handles PMQs, even up against Corbyn, is frightened of TV debates or even real voters.FF43 said:Most likely, however, she can't cope. So her main effort goes on preventing anyone discussing Brexit or challenging her on it.
The slightest thing completely knocks her off her game.
Just imagine how she will handle the real negotiations once they start...
For someone so frit and incompetent, she seems weirdly good at basic, brutal politics. The opposite, then, of David Cameron, who was meant to be so smooth and skilled, but in reality was so clowinshly inept he was bundled from office after losing an unloseable referendum he didn't have to call.0 -
Is the NF under ,Let Pen fascist ? Umberto Eco lists 14 properties of fascism. By my reckoning, the NF ticks about 5 and a half out of 14 boxes. So however distasteful they may seem, not fascist on Eco's terms.0
-
There is an election in June
Which is causing much frothing and spume
Whether Leave or Remain
The problem is the same
Can pb-ers please try not to fume?
0 -
It's the scheduled publication date.FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
What evidence there is suggests that she is a pretty good negotiator - which is an entirely different skill from debating or interacting with voters.Scott_P said:
We have all seen how badly she handles PMQs, even up against Corbyn, is frightened of TV debates or even real voters.FF43 said:Most likely, however, she can't cope. So her main effort goes on preventing anyone discussing Brexit or challenging her on it.
The slightest thing completely knocks her off her game.
Just imagine how she will handle the real negotiations once they start...0 -
Cameron always struck me as a good public school PM, he worked hard, he could debate and would always turn out well for the big occasions. Much like a club cricket captain, always has polished shoes for the worthies.SeanT said:
And yet, funnily enough she has become Tory leader, the most popular PM in many years, and is now cruising to an unexpected and enormous election victory (after everyone accused her of dithering), an election where she might defeat the Opposition so severely it will take them another decade or more to recover, if they ever do.Scott_P said:
We have all seen how badly she handles PMQs, even up against Corbyn, is frightened of TV debates or even real voters.FF43 said:Most likely, however, she can't cope. So her main effort goes on preventing anyone discussing Brexit or challenging her on it.
The slightest thing completely knocks her off her game.
Just imagine how she will handle the real negotiations once they start...
For someone so frit and incompetent, she seems weirdly good at basic, brutal politics. The opposite, then, of David Cameron, who was meant to be so smooth and skilled, but in reality was so clowinshly inept he was bundled from office after losing an unloseable referendum he didn't have to call.
But his basic politicking at times could be awful and the way he treated the membership meant they lacked warmth towards him. He lacked the basics of being a political leader mainly because of his relatively meteoric rise.0 -
Some firms put on hateful hold music just to make you hang up, I'm sure of it.0
-
I'm on hold to HMRC. I could kill myself.0
-
No - I just thought you deserved a bit of abuse back at you.SeanT said:
You don't want Mr Meeks to be happy? I know he can be pompous and annoying, but we surely all wish him well, ultimately., in his new Nazi homeland, where he feels so comfortable.Nigelb said:
All of us ?SeanT said:
Thank you. I should also say that if you ever feel like fucking off to your beloved quasi-fucking-Nazi Hungary and not ever fucking coming back, all of us here will be sincerely rooting for you. Go for it. Make the break. Be bold!AlastairMeeks said:
Two grotesque factual errors in a single sentence.SeanT said:
At least they haven't happily bought houses in countries run by actual Fascists, as you have, in Orban's Hungary, which you now apparently consider your "spiritual home".AlastairMeeks said:
More than 8 out of 10 leavers who expressed a preference deciding to root for the fascist is quite a monolithic bloc.isam said:
What the referendum seems to have done is to transform people who for years had been saying that society was more nuanced than meets the eye, who avoided stereotyping of people on flimsy evidence, who protested that groups of people were not "a monolith", into the people they used to criticise!AlastairMeeks said:
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.Peter_the_Punter said:
Be sensible, Alastair.Sean_F said:
Most of us think she's far too liberal.AlastairMeeks said:It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there
2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome
3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood
4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
You're improving.
In your own words, 'fuck off'.
Nothing personal.0 -
Everyone calm down and cheer up, listen to some classic comedy; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RTWk9QIKS00
-
luckily I don't suppose she will be conducting much of it personally.Scott_P said:
We have all seen how badly she handles PMQs, even up against Corbyn, is frightened of TV debates or even real voters.FF43 said:Most likely, however, she can't cope. So her main effort goes on preventing anyone discussing Brexit or challenging her on it.
The slightest thing completely knocks her off her game.
Just imagine how she will handle the real negotiations once they start...
It will be dozens of lawyers and civil servants. Surely.
I wouldn't want Boris, DD or Fox anywhere near either, given their performance so far. We need these negotiations to be sensibly conducted by people who know what they are doing.
0 -
It was Yuge. Would love to be a loser this weekend. But I fear that is not the Spurs way.Scrapheap_as_was said:SO
I'm presuming you are actually looking forward to tearing up your Spurs bets this weekend.... touch a lot of wood? That win at Palace was massive.
0 -
Which, by the way, is exactly what the treaties say.MTimT said:
My thoughts exactly. The EU want to insist on the hardest of Brexits, then they are saying goodbye to any payments of any kind.Patrick said:
I presume the final bill for diamond Brexit will be £0.01 - but with a free finger wave attached.foxinsoxuk said:
The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.AlastairMeeks said:
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.Peter_the_Punter said:
Be sensible, Alastair.Sean_F said:
Most of us think she's far too liberal.AlastairMeeks said:It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there
2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome
3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood
4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
There can be no settlement on the final bill until the future relationship is understood. The most I'd offer, is to agree in principle what items could fall under a Brexit bill if, and only if, there is a satisfactory agreement for going forward, and that the amounts involved will be related to the attractiveness of that future agreement.
No deal, no payments, period.0 -
But if you wanted to have a cosy dinner with them, they are apparently available and willing.Casino_Royale said:I'm on hold to HMRC. I could kill myself.
0 -
@SamCoatesTimes: Breaking: Andrew Turner is stepping down as Tory MP for Isle of Wight. Comes after saying homosexuality "wrong" earlier today0
-
That escalated quickly.Scott_P said:@SamCoatesTimes: Breaking: Andrew Turner is stepping down as Tory MP for Isle of Wight. Comes after saying homosexuality "wrong" earlier today
0 -
"She has in the past proposed - in all seriousness - that the European Union becomes the European Christian Union, and that is should stand as a bulwark against Islam."
Incidentally, the top comment on a recent local language BBC Facebook news site (they are staffed by Islamists, natch - any sense that the BBC's foreign language output should somehow promulgate 'British values' is hideously outdated) was that Islamic immigrants to Europe were only a fair response to colonialism by European powers in the past.
So a European Christian Union might seem laughable to those brought up in the West, but is a real issue for much of the world's Muslims.0 -
GoodScott_P said:@SamCoatesTimes: Breaking: Andrew Turner is stepping down as Tory MP for Isle of Wight. Comes after saying homosexuality "wrong" earlier today
0 -
Good. Con Gain.Scott_P said:@SamCoatesTimes: Breaking: Andrew Turner is stepping down as Tory MP for Isle of Wight. Comes after saying homosexuality "wrong" earlier today
A truly bizarre man who should have stood down last time round.0 -
Don't worry, after speaking to them you'll have switched targets.Casino_Royale said:I'm on hold to HMRC. I could kill myself.
0 -
Con hold?Casino_Royale said:
Good. Con Gain.Scott_P said:@SamCoatesTimes: Breaking: Andrew Turner is stepping down as Tory MP for Isle of Wight. Comes after saying homosexuality "wrong" earlier today
A truly bizarre man who should have stood down last time round.0 -
The Back to the Future principle song just kicked in, I feel a smidgen better now.Casino_Royale said:I'm on hold to HMRC. I could kill myself.
0 -
May managed to make one pro-eu (sort of) speech during the referendum campaign and then for the rest of the campaign did nothing in particular - and did it very well.Nigelb said:
What evidence there is suggests that she is a pretty good negotiator - which is an entirely different skill from debating or interacting with voters.Scott_P said:
We have all seen how badly she handles PMQs, even up against Corbyn, is frightened of TV debates or even real voters.FF43 said:Most likely, however, she can't cope. So her main effort goes on preventing anyone discussing Brexit or challenging her on it.
The slightest thing completely knocks her off her game.
Just imagine how she will handle the real negotiations once they start...
And if you think Mrs May is going to be literally sitting at one side of a table with the other 27 leaders at the other then you are hopelessly naive. The negotiations will be done by the civil service, mainly, in dotting i's, crossing t's and advising the politicians.0 -
Like this.Scott_P said:
We have all seen how badly she handles PMQs, even up against Corbyn, is frightened of TV debates or even real voters.FF43 said:Most likely, however, she can't cope. So her main effort goes on preventing anyone discussing Brexit or challenging her on it.
The slightest thing completely knocks her off her game.
Just imagine how she will handle the real negotiations once they start...
https://youtu.be/AjPBp6DOwgU0 -
Nah. "One of our advisors will be with you as soon as possible."surbiton said:
But if you wanted to have a cosy dinner with them, they are apparently available and willing.Casino_Royale said:I'm on hold to HMRC. I could kill myself.
16 minutes later..0 -
I think her PMQ performance shows just why she and her party are so far behind in the po...oh wait a minute.isam said:
Maybe she is better at politics than showbizScott_P said:
We have all seen how badly she handles PMQs, even up against Corbyn, is frightened of TV debates or even real voters.FF43 said:Most likely, however, she can't cope. So her main effort goes on preventing anyone discussing Brexit or challenging her on it.
The slightest thing completely knocks her off her game.
Just imagine how she will handle the real negotiations once they start...0 -
Is that Morris Dancer sarcasm creeping out there a bit?Morris_Dancer said:Good evening, everyone.
F1: Vandoorne has a 15 place grid penalty for an engine failure. Frankly, I don't think this will affect his race much.
LIKE
0 -
I was thinking how to write exactly that word - U G or Euge - to give it the 'weight' of how big a win it was for us - but copped out with massive.SouthamObserver said:
It was Yuge. Would love to be a loser this weekend. But I fear that is not the Spurs way.Scrapheap_as_was said:SO
I'm presuming you are actually looking forward to tearing up your Spurs bets this weekend.... touch a lot of wood? That win at Palace was massive.
Looking forward to my...... er... keyring with some WHL grass in it & a season at Wembley now confirmed.0 -
A 90's boyband has now kicked in, thank god the oven isn't gas.HaroldO said:
The Back to the Future principle song just kicked in, I feel a smidgen better now.Casino_Royale said:I'm on hold to HMRC. I could kill myself.
0 -
Cameron's charm and skills would have won over Working Class leave voters, he just never got the chance...felix said:
I think her PMQ performance shows just why she and her party are so far behind in the po...oh wait a minute.isam said:
Maybe she is better at politics than showbizScott_P said:
We have all seen how badly she handles PMQs, even up against Corbyn, is frightened of TV debates or even real voters.FF43 said:Most likely, however, she can't cope. So her main effort goes on preventing anyone discussing Brexit or challenging her on it.
The slightest thing completely knocks her off her game.
Just imagine how she will handle the real negotiations once they start...0 -
Goodness.
Leavers a bit grumpy on here. As per usual.
Don't get me wrong, if you are poor, and economically vulnerable, there is lots to be grumpy about, just that few on here fall into that category and are, rather, the Bolly vs Nyetimber ooh which is best type Leavers. Luckily for them.
standard.co.uk/business/jim-armitage-we-shot-ourselves-in-the-foot-and-pain-is-starting-to-tell-a3526431.html0 -
Considering that she called the election over Brexit, she is very reluctant to explain what her Brexit policy is. The vacuous "Best possible deal for Britain" is a meaningless soundbite, as anyone from the fluffiest softie to the titanium tipped hard case imagines that their version of Brexit is best.FF43 said:
May has so little interest in the Brexit negotiations and is approaching them so incompetently, I do wonder if she has some plan where the outcome becomes irrelevant. I hardly think she can spring another of her surprises and will declare Brexit cancelled. Slightly more likely, she doesn't mind a Brexit crash if she can blame it on the EU. Most likely, however, she can't cope. So her main effort goes on preventing anyone discussing Brexit or challenging her on it.foxinsoxuk said:
I think that probably correct. Any significant bill will be a political suicide pill for the MPs backing paying it. It could well be why May wants a big majority. It is the Leave Fundamentalists ratber than the Remainers who pose the biggest threat to her.
It is quite unclear what she expects to propose to a Commons and Lords that passed A50 with barely any delay or dispute that they will rise up against. It would have to be something epically unpopular to get them to vote it down.
May is selling a Brexit pig in a poke.0 -
Thanks.RobD said:
From the constitution (google translated from French)Pong said:
Good question.paulyork64 said:If macron gets bumped off before the second round of voting does Le Pen become president by default?
Actually, it's a horrible question - but relevant for punters.
I expect the 1st round would get rerun?
"In the event of the death or incapacity of one of the two most favored candidates in the first round before any withdrawals, the Constitutional Council declares that all electoral operations must be re-conducted; The same shall apply in the event of the death or incapacity of one of the two candidates remaining for the second round."
@pulpstar - yes, but don't think laying/backing would realistically make a difference. I can't imagine betfair could do anything other than void in such a circumstance.
I doubt they'd put up a market for the rerun.
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I have seen photos of Mrs May dressed in a remain shirt campaigning for Remain in her constituency. Accompanied by other remain campaigners from other parties. Including Lib Dems.Arthur_Penny said:
May managed to make one pro-eu (sort of) speech during the referendum campaign and then for the rest of the campaign did nothing in particular - and did it very well.Nigelb said:
What evidence there is suggests that she is a pretty good negotiator - which is an entirely different skill from debating or interacting with voters.Scott_P said:
We have all seen how badly she handles PMQs, even up against Corbyn, is frightened of TV debates or even real voters.FF43 said:Most likely, however, she can't cope. So her main effort goes on preventing anyone discussing Brexit or challenging her on it.
The slightest thing completely knocks her off her game.
Just imagine how she will handle the real negotiations once they start...
And if you think Mrs May is going to be literally sitting at one side of a table with the other 27 leaders at the other then you are hopelessly naive. The negotiations will be done by the civil service, mainly, in dotting i's, crossing t's and advising the politicians.0 -
... he said from the inner back room of his office. Through a small hole in the wall. But he is visiting A 'safe area' constituency tomorrow. And an absolute no-hoper on Monday. Sorry, Tuesday. Monday off in lieu.Scott_P said:@jeremycorbyn: Theresa May is hiding from the public and TV debates with me because she is too weak to defend her record. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/28/theresa-may-accused-of-hiding-from-public-at-activist-filled-event-leeds
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I stopped reading after "Yes, I know" as soon as it became apparent that the next word wasn't "Sorry"SouthamObserver said:
Yes, I know. But we still send over 40% of all our exports to EU member states. I remain to be convinced that seeing them cope with the economic turmoil caused by a Le Pen win would do us much good.GeoffM said:
The largest country for UK goods exported is the US.SouthamObserver said:
We don't send 40%+ of our exports to the US. We send them to the member states of the European Union.GeoffM said:
The US? How did they come into this thread?SouthamObserver said:
Yep, makes sense for us to want economic turmoil visited on our biggest export market.GeoffM said:
You were right up to the final sentence. If we want to secure the largest possible payment and the smoothest possible clean WTO exit it surely assists us to have an EU in turmoil rather than Macron parroting German lines?foxinsoxuk said:
As the EU27 have clearly and consistently stated, Brexit means Brexit.AlastairMeeks said:
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.Peter_the_Punter said:
Be sensible, Alastair.Sean_F said:
Most of us think she's far too liberal.AlastairMeeks said:It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there
2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome
3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood
4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
Hardline leavers should be very happy with the EU position, they are clear that there is no halfway house soft Brexit. The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.
As suchhardline Leavers should support Macron.0 -
Mr. B, just had a search. I briefly considered, then discarded the notion, of backing Vettel each way for pole at 4.5 (prior to practice). Having watched much of P2, I'm wondering about that (alas, now fallen to 2.87).
I agree Ferrari are looking strong. Only 2.37 for the Constructors'. Not enough, given the time, to tempt me, but I'm happy with my 4.5 or whatever it was I backed them at.
Hmm. Raikkonen 51 to win the title. If that were top 3 (I think the old each way was a fifth the odds for top 3, current ones are a third the odds for top 2) it'd be damned tasty.0 -
There are some very interesting discussions about exactly what proportion of EU assets (EUR140bn) we are entitled - should it be based on percentage of gross contributions since year dot, or population, etc etc. You can make a case for it being as low as 7%, or as high as 20-25%.SeanT said:They do. They don't mention it in their communiques, but it has been the subject of discussion. The EU has assets for which we have paid about 15-20% of the cost, at least.
Divvying it up won't be easy.
Ultimately, the bill stuff is rubbish though. We will take responsibility for paying British MEPs and Eurocrats' pensions (because we'd likely lose that one in court if it came to it), we'll agree a transitional period with a reduced fee (which will count against the total), and the share of assets will be offset.
Mrs May will be able to declare that not a penny will go to Brussels. Various EU functionaries will claim that we paid €50bn. Everyone has a little victory. What's not to like?0 -
What proof hav you for such a statement?FF43 said:
May has so little interest in the Brexit negotiations and is approaching them so incompetently, I do wonder if she has some plan where the outcome becomes irrelevant. I hardly think she can spring another of her surprises and will declare Brexit cancelled. Slightly more likely, she doesn't mind a Brexit crash if she can blame it on the EU. Most likely, however, she can't cope. So her main effort goes on preventing anyone discussing Brexit or challenging her on it.foxinsoxuk said:
I think that probably correct. Any significant bill will be a political suicide pill for the MPs backing paying it. It could well be why May wants a big majority. It is the Leave Fundamentalists ratber than the Remainers who pose the biggest threat to her.0 -
It's interesting just how many of the most vociferous Remainers are happy to pronounce judgement on the moral turpitude of the UK, from places like France (where 40% are about to vote for an actual fascist candidate) or Viktor Orban's Hungary.SeanT said:
You don't want Mr Meeks to be happy? I know he can be pompous and annoying, but we surely all wish him well, ultimately., in his new Nazi homeland, where he feels so comfortable.Nigelb said:
All of us ?SeanT said:
Thank you. I should also say that if you ever feel like fucking off to your beloved quasi-fucking-Nazi Hungary and not ever fucking coming back, all of us here will be sincerely rooting for you. Go for it. Make the break. Be bold!AlastairMeeks said:
Two grotesque factual errors in a single sentence.SeanT said:
At least they haven't happily bought houses in countries run by actual Fascists, as you have, in Orban's Hungary, which you now apparently consider your "spiritual home".AlastairMeeks said:
More than 8 out of 10 leavers who expressed a preference deciding to root for the fascist is quite a monolithic bloc.isam said:
WhatAlastairMeeks said:
That .Peter_the_Punter said:
Be sensible, Alastair.Sean_F said:
Most of us think she's far too liberal.AlastairMeeks said:It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there
2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome
3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood
4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
You're improving.
In your own words, 'fuck off'.
In the UK, UKIP looks like Mary Poppins next to those. And even that has now been effectively killed off by our oldest establishment mainstream centre-right party.0 -
Like like like.isam said:
Maybe she is better at politics than showbizScott_P said:
We have all seen how badly she handles PMQs, even up against Corbyn, is frightened of TV debates or even real voters.FF43 said:Most likely, however, she can't cope. So her main effort goes on preventing anyone discussing Brexit or challenging her on it.
The slightest thing completely knocks her off her game.
Just imagine how she will handle the real negotiations once they start...
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