I'll put it down as a joke article by Thrasher, seeing as he mentions Shipley and recapturing Scotland !
A very dry sense of humour indeed.
Given that there is zero chance of a successful prosecution before June 8 and the matter will be sub judice it is very much a spurious article
The sub judice issue is potentially a double-edged sword for the Tories (and anyone else involved). On the one hand it will minimise the extent to which the allegations can be 'discussed' but it will also minimise the ability of a candidate to publicly contradict and defend them. The upshot might be to simply leave a whiff of 'suspicion' in the air, which might be more damaging in the long term than two days of full-frontal 'scandal'.
I think Macron has to be in the long term interests of the UK. At some point we will have to resolve Brexit and move on. Le Pen won't help that, even if there might be short term advantage for the UK in breaking up the EU consensus.
"Oxford University has apologised for saying that avoiding eye contact could be "everyday racism" after it was accused of discriminating against autistic people.
The claim was included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" in an equality and diversity unit newsletter.
But the university was criticised for being "insensitive" to autistic people who can struggle making eye contact.
It said it had made a mistake and not taken disabilities into account."
The head of the African, Caribbean and Pacific group of nations has ruled out a free trade deal with the UK until at least six years after Brexit and taken a sideswipe at the idea of a new British trade empire.
The ACP chief, Dr Patrick Gomes, condemned “reactionary” Whitehall talk of a second era of British colonialism – dubbed “Empire 2.0” – and poured scorn on the government’s trade strategy.
Betfair Sportsbook has the Conservatives narrow favourites in Luton South. I don't agree: IMO Labour are still favourites there because of the demographics.
Betfair Sportsbook has the Conservatives narrow favourites in Luton South. I don't agree: IMO Labour are still favourites there because of the demographics.
They're just applying UNS and not really thinking through stuff imo.
"Oxford University has apologised for saying that avoiding eye contact could be "everyday racism" after it was accused of discriminating against autistic people.
The claim was included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" in an equality and diversity unit newsletter.
But the university was criticised for being "insensitive" to autistic people who can struggle making eye contact.
It said it had made a mistake and not taken disabilities into account."
I'll put it down as a joke article by Thrasher, seeing as he mentions Shipley and recapturing Scotland !
A very dry sense of humour indeed.
Given that there is zero chance of a successful prosecution before June 8 and the matter will be sub judice it is very much a spurious article
The sub judice issue is potentially a double-edged sword for the Tories (and anyone else involved). On the one hand it will minimise the extent to which the allegations can be 'discussed' but it will also minimise the ability of a candidate to publicly contradict and defend them. The upshot might be to simply leave a whiff of 'suspicion' in the air, which might be more damaging in the long term than two days of full-frontal 'scandal'.
True but I can't see it swinging too many votes in any case.
"Oxford University has apologised for saying that avoiding eye contact could be "everyday racism" after it was accused of discriminating against autistic people.
The claim was included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" in an equality and diversity unit newsletter.
But the university was criticised for being "insensitive" to autistic people who can struggle making eye contact.
It said it had made a mistake and not taken disabilities into account."
Didn't someone like Ayn Rand predict this sort of thing? Society splitting into thousands of pressure groups, totally obsessed with their own problems and not interested in anyone else.
It's not too far from you - how active are UKIP in this seat? This may be vital information.
It's nearer than I'd like! I go to the gym there most days.. it feels very UKIPpy, much like Thurrock.
UKIP are definitely trying there, as I have said they came 2nd in 50/51 council seats last time as well as 2nd in GE15. They have gone big on no Mosque being built, held anti Islamic meetings, had a street stall on the Heathway for St Georges Day etc. There is more racial tension than EU worries - the old Princess bowling lanes is now the Mountain of Fire Miracle Ministry for example. I was a teller in the constituency at the last GE and old people were coming up almost in tears, complaining about Africans gobbing on the street, pleading for UKIP to get in thinking I was the candidate!
I am biased, but 13/1 w PP UKIP seems ridiculous compared to 10/11 the Tories. Dagenham is so not a Tory place! My parents are quite typical of their generation from the area and both like May/dislike Corbyn... so aren't voting! My Dad because he doesn't want to let down his Father, who died in 1973, by voting Tory
Didn't someone like Ayn Rand predict this sort of thing? Society splitting into thousands of pressure groups, totally obsessed with their own problems and not interested in anyone else.
Being obsessed with their own problems is one thing, it's when they get obsessed about their own non-problems that it gets ridiculous.
Betfair Sportsbook has the Conservatives narrow favourites in Luton South. I don't agree: IMO Labour are still favourites there because of the demographics.
They're just applying UNS and not really thinking through stuff imo.
Neither the polling, nor the site's Leavers' reaction to it, comes as a surprise. Who would have thought that those susceptible to xenophobic lies would hope that a close ally would be led by a fascist?
Didn't most Leavers asked not say "le Pen"?
Don't let facts get in the way of another legendary Meeks tantrum.
"Oxford University has apologised for saying that avoiding eye contact could be "everyday racism" after it was accused of discriminating against autistic people.
The claim was included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" in an equality and diversity unit newsletter.
But the university was criticised for being "insensitive" to autistic people who can struggle making eye contact.
It said it had made a mistake and not taken disabilities into account."
Some of the problem here is the language used. They could have said
"It's possible to act in a racist way without intending to. For example, studies have shown (if they have!) that some white people who are not racist sometimes feel uneasy about holding eye contact with a black person the same way that they do with a white person. If you think this may be you, then please try to be aware of the issue and not to discriminate in how you look at people according to their skin colour. Even if you don't realise you're doing it, you can send the wrong message."
Then they could have said
"Oops, sorry! We should have mentioned that some people, including some who are autistic, find it difficult to hold eye contact in general with people they don't know well. If this is you, please be aware that we did not mean to be critical of you for your disability."
Rather than this common-sense and down-to-earth stuff, we hear terms such as "everyday racism", "discriminating against autistic people", "racial micro-aggressions", and "equality and diversity", and a dry reference to "not (taking) disabilities into account," as if the main thing that matters is what words get written into an official policy document.
If a black person finds that two out of a group of ten white people, everything else being equal, can't look him in the eye properly for some reason, when they're OK doing it with everyone else, you can't blame him for getting pissed off.
Instead, it's dogwhistles all round, as many people are writing and saying things that are very different from what they're thinking and feeling, which isn't good.
Yeah, looks good value. Young population, quite high proportion of ethnic minorities, and not too much Kipperness. It should be a lower-than-average Con->Lab swing, and it's a 15% majority.
"Oxford University has apologised for saying that avoiding eye contact could be "everyday racism" after it was accused of discriminating against autistic people.
The claim was included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" in an equality and diversity unit newsletter.
But the university was criticised for being "insensitive" to autistic people who can struggle making eye contact.
It said it had made a mistake and not taken disabilities into account."
Some of the problem here is the language used. They could have said
"It's possible to act in a racist way without intending to. For example, studies have shown (if they have!) that some white people who are not racist sometimes feel uneasy about holding eye contact with a black person the same way that they do with a white person. If you think this may be you, then please try to be aware of the issue and not to discriminate in how you look at people according to their skin colour. Even if you don't realise you're doing it, you can send the wrong message."
Then they could have said
"Oops, sorry! We should have mentioned that some people, including some who are autistic, find it difficult to hold eye contact in general with people they don't know well. If this is you, please be aware that we did not mean to be critical of you for your disability."
Rather than this common-sense and down-to-earth stuff, we hear terms such as "everyday racism", "discriminating against autistic people", "racial micro-aggressions", and "equality and diversity", and a dry reference to "not (taking) disabilities into account," as if the main thing that matters is what words get written into an official policy document.
If a black person finds that two out of a group of ten white people, everything else being equal, can't look him in the eye properly for some reason, when they're OK doing it with everyone else, you can't blame him for getting pissed off.
Instead, it's dogwhistles all round.
Or perhaps they could have actually done some thinking and research, Oxford is after all supposed to be one of the leading universities on the planet. They might even have discovered that the level of eye-contact deemed acceptable in different circumstances varies greatly across different cultures.
it seems that 77% of tories are sticking with them from last time but 52% for labour, 47 for Lib Dems and 43% for ukip.
I have always wondered about these statistics. I could understand 95%, 90% , even 80%.
Where do these people go to ? So the 23% who voted Tory last time. Are they going to vote Green ?
I'd expect that some won't go anywhere in the end, some will not vote, the leave type voters will go towards UKIP and the remain type voters will go LibDem
The head of the African, Caribbean and Pacific group of nations has ruled out a free trade deal with the UK until at least six years after Brexit and taken a sideswipe at the idea of a new British trade empire.
The ACP chief, Dr Patrick Gomes, condemned “reactionary” Whitehall talk of a second era of British colonialism – dubbed “Empire 2.0” – and poured scorn on the government’s trade strategy.
You missed out the part of the article where Gomes main concern is that his begging bowl is going to be smaller hence his 'reactionary' comment.
Is it really that simple? MLP's economic policies seem indistinguishable from Corbyn's. I guess Jezza is another fascist. He's certainly a herbivore. (and an anti-semite) (and seems very OK with violence)
Inevitably, as night follows day. But those arguing the SNP decline is over egged might want to reflect on the leader's rating.....
I suspect their inactivity is being perceived as ever less masterful. Is the SNP government doing ANYTHING AT ALL right now? AFAIK they have passed just one piece of legislation this year: the budget.
I don't want to get into arguments after what happened in our family recently, but what exactly makes Le Pen a Fascist?
Is Red Ken a Fascist?
Fascism is defined as extreme right-wing.
However, I'm not sure there's much difference between extreme left and right wing.
Unfairly defined.
The only difference between categorising a hard-left and a hard-right wing dictator is whether someone likes them or not. Usually any critical assessment is dodged by just looking for the colour of the flag they wave.
After reading the first page, I am disappointed and fed up with the yah-boo discussion of this unsigned and unworthy thread, punctuated only by a few interesting posts. Better things to do. TTFN.
Is it really that simple? MLP's economic policies seem indistinguishable from Corbyn's. I guess Jezza is another fascist. He's certainly a herbivore. (and an anti-semite) (and seems very OK with violence)
Indeed. Put the views of Hitler and Corbyn side by side without their names attributed and see who assigns every view to the correct nutter.
"Oxford University has apologised for saying that avoiding eye contact could be "everyday racism" after it was accused of discriminating against autistic people.
The claim was included in a list of "racial micro-aggressions" in an equality and diversity unit newsletter.
But the university was criticised for being "insensitive" to autistic people who can struggle making eye contact.
It said it had made a mistake and not taken disabilities into account."
Some of the problem here is the language used. They could have said
"It's possible to act in a racist way without intending to. For example, studies have shown (if they have!) that some white people who are not racist sometimes feel uneasy about holding eye contact with a black person the same way that they do with a white person. If you think this may be you, then please try to be aware of the issue and not to discriminate in how you look at people according to their skin colour. Even if you don't realise you're doing it, you can send the wrong message."
Then they could have said
"Oops, sorry! We should have mentioned that some people, including some who are autistic, find it difficult to hold eye contact in general with people they don't know well. If this is you, please be aware that we did not mean to be critical of you for your disability."
Rather than this common-sense and down-to-earth stuff, we hear terms such as "everyday racism", "discriminating against autistic people", "racial micro-aggressions", and "equality and diversity", and a dry reference to "not (taking) disabilities into account," as if the main thing that matters is what words get written into an official policy document.
If a black person finds that two out of a group of ten white people, everything else being equal, can't look him in the eye properly for some reason, when they're OK doing it with everyone else, you can't blame him for getting pissed off.
Instead, it's dogwhistles all round.
Or perhaps they could have actually done some thinking and research, Oxford is after all supposed to be one of the leading universities on the planet. They might even have discovered that the level of eye-contact deemed acceptable in different circumstances varies greatly across different cultures.
I agree. It's as if they want to spew a document out that shows little recognition of what surmountable communication problems may actually arise between people with different looks or from different cultures. Then they can tick the anti-discrimination box, keep getting the anti-discrim budget, and nobody involved in the process feels they can say "FGS let's get real here".
Is it really that simple? MLP's economic policies seem indistinguishable from Corbyn's. I guess Jezza is another fascist. He's certainly a herbivore. (and an anti-semite) (and seems very OK with violence)
Indeed. Put the views of Hitler and Corbyn side by side without their names attributed and see who assigns every view to the correct nutter.
it seems that 77% of tories are sticking with them from last time but 52% for labour, 47 for Lib Dems and 43% for ukip.
I have always wondered about these statistics. I could understand 95%, 90% , even 80%.
Where do these people go to ? So the 23% who voted Tory last time. Are they going to vote Green ?
I'd expect that some won't go anywhere in the end, some will not vote, the leave type voters will go towards UKIP and the remain type voters will go LibDem
Fascist has become the most overused word replacing racist, its become meaningless. The urban dictionary describes it here:
The only official definition of Fascism comes from Benito Mussolini, the founder of fascism, in which he outlines three principles of a fascist philosophy. 1."Everything in the state". The Government is supreme and the country is all-encompasing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body, often a dictator. 2."Nothing outside the state". The country must grow and the implied goal of any fascist nation is to rule the world, and have every human submit to the government. 3."Nothing against the state". Any type of questioning the government is not to be tolerated. If you do not see things our way, you are wrong. If you do not agree with the government, you cannot be allowed to live and taint the minds of the rest of the good citizens. The use of militarism was implied only as a means to accomplish one of the three above principles, mainly to keep the people and rest of the world in line. Fascist countries are known for their harmony and lack of internal strife. There are no conflicting parties or elections in fascist countries. Nazi Germany was extreme Fascism, better examples of fascist countries were Mussolini's Italy, Iraq, Iran, and many middle eastern countries.
I don't follow French politics but from the bit I know le Pen isn't a fascist.
My instinct with that is that Labour are in for an absolute kerrunking, but I'll need to crunch the numbers.
I've been thinking that.
There's enough information in that data to put together an alternative model for the prediction of the number of seats to UNS (for England mainly though). it would be interesting if there were a seat by seat data of Leave/Remain percentages to finesse the model.
LOLOLOL they've finally woken up to a story that's been on Guido for months?
I love how one third of the story is taken up a tweet's "Lopresti Must Go" text followed by the identical screenshot in case you couldn't read the typing. It comes from a single anonymous sweet old local lady with no agenda except caring ... but when you click on the profile is a LibDem activist.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Wrong on (3), it's not a misunderstanding rather an intentional strawman by the perpetrators.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Leavers really are moral degenerates who were quite happy to support and campaign for such a vile and racist Leave campaign, is this polling really surprising?
I wonder what the polling would say about bears and their toilet habits ?
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
"The German lower house of parliament approved on Thursday a draft law that would prohibit civil servants, soldiers and judges from wearing a full face veil at work, Reuters reported."
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Five ways? It would be better for Britain if it's her across the negotiating table during Brexit creating chaos than the other one - who is more up Merkel's arse.
Or is that No2 for you? I think it might be. After wiping off the spittle you've left over your own typing it seems close.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
Leavers really are moral degenerates who were quite happy to support and campaign for such a vile and racist Leave campaign, is this polling really surprising?
I wonder what the polling would say about bears and their toilet habits ?
Does the average bear (not Yogi obvs) have a cleaner bottom than the average Leaver? After the underwear revelation I think we need to know.
Leavers really are moral degenerates who were quite happy to support and campaign for such a vile and racist Leave campaign, is this polling really surprising?
I wonder what the polling would say about bears and their toilet habits ?
It would be more interesting to do a thread on how the referendum has caused the biggest political realignment since the Cavaliers and Roundheads.
Fascist has become the most overused word replacing racist, its become meaningless. The urban dictionary describes it here:
The only official definition of Fascism comes from Benito Mussolini, the founder of fascism, in which he outlines three principles of a fascist philosophy. 1."Everything in the state". The Government is supreme and the country is all-encompasing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body, often a dictator. 2."Nothing outside the state". The country must grow and the implied goal of any fascist nation is to rule the world, and have every human submit to the government. 3."Nothing against the state". Any type of questioning the government is not to be tolerated. If you do not see things our way, you are wrong. If you do not agree with the government, you cannot be allowed to live and taint the minds of the rest of the good citizens. The use of militarism was implied only as a means to accomplish one of the three above principles, mainly to keep the people and rest of the world in line. Fascist countries are known for their harmony and lack of internal strife. There are no conflicting parties or elections in fascist countries. Nazi Germany was extreme Fascism, better examples of fascist countries were Mussolini's Italy, Iraq, Iran, and many middle eastern countries.
I don't follow French politics but from the bit I know le Pen isn't a fascist.
Fascism doesn't believe in letting women run parties and/or countries.
Labour may be at near-historic lows in the polls but Jeremy Corbyn’s inner circle is clinging stubbornly to the hope of an upset election win, inspired by other “outsiders” like Bernie Sanders and now Emmanuel Macron.
According to a senior party official familiar with the leadership team’s electoral strategy, while Labour MPs are looking over their shoulders in seats once considered unassailable, Corbyn and his close aides believe a grass-roots insurgency can succeed against the well-oiled Conservative election machine.
Corbyn has spent 40 years only talking to people who agree with him.
The only problem with Corbyn, Milne and co's theory is that there is no grassroots insurgency. It does not exist outside of momentum's meetings. Other than that minor point, the strategy is sound.
Such people are absolutely convinced 'the people' are on their side, even though they never demonstrate it at elections.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
Just curious: the holocaust denial thing is one thing, but it seems to me that the (true, not the wishy-washy Blairite stuff) left is massively anti-semitic, from what I see on my Facebook (and they don't seem shy about it either - express something pro-Trump and you are blocked and defriended, but the anti-semitism is unembarrassed. Me to lefty 'er, that "Israel is a War-criminal" page you linked to is vile anti-semitism.' Lefty: 'foams at mouth': defriened.
Is anti-semitism is actually a vote loser, and for which parties? It must be hard to get elected in, say, Tower Hamlets, without sharing many opinions with Adolf.
Obviously the holocaust stuff is a bit passé, but Labour and the Lib Dems are infested with anti-semites (er, fascists?) from what I can see.
Perhaps some polling on attitudes towards Israel would be more useful?
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Leavers really are moral degenerates who were quite happy to support and campaign for such a vile and racist Leave campaign, is this polling really surprising?
I wonder what the polling would say about bears and their toilet habits ?
Does the average bear (not Yogi obvs) have a cleaner bottom than the average Leaver? After the underwear revelation I think we need to know.
I'll ask Keiran to add it to the next GFK NOP poll.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
Fascist has become the most overused word replacing racist, its become meaningless. The urban dictionary describes it here:
The only official definition of Fascism comes from Benito Mussolini, the founder of fascism, in which he outlines three principles of a fascist philosophy. 1."Everything in the state". The Government is supreme and the country is all-encompasing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body, often a dictator. 2."Nothing outside the state". The country must grow and the implied goal of any fascist nation is to rule the world, and have every human submit to the government. 3."Nothing against the state". Any type of questioning the government is not to be tolerated. If you do not see things our way, you are wrong. If you do not agree with the government, you cannot be allowed to live and taint the minds of the rest of the good citizens. The use of militarism was implied only as a means to accomplish one of the three above principles, mainly to keep the people and rest of the world in line. Fascist countries are known for their harmony and lack of internal strife. There are no conflicting parties or elections in fascist countries. Nazi Germany was extreme Fascism, better examples of fascist countries were Mussolini's Italy, Iraq, Iran, and many middle eastern countries.
I don't follow French politics but from the bit I know le Pen isn't a fascist.
Fascism doesn't believe in letting women run parties and/or countries.
And we're back to the Labour party .. oh and the LDs
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
What the referendum seems to have done is to transform people who for years had been saying that society was more nuanced than meets the eye, who avoided stereotyping on flimsy evidence, and who protested that groups of people were not "a monolith", into the people they used to criticise!
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
What the referendum seems to have done is to transform people who for years had been saying that society was more nuanced than meets the eye, who avoided stereotyping of people on flimsy evidence, who protested that groups of people were not "a monolith", into the people they used to criticise!
More than 8 out of 10 leavers who expressed a preference deciding to root for the fascist is quite a monolithic bloc.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
What the referendum seems to have done is to transform people who for years had been saying that society was more nuanced than meets the eye, who avoided stereotyping of people on flimsy evidence, who protested that groups of people were not "a monolith", into the people they used to criticise!
More than 8 out of 10 leavers who expressed a preference deciding to root for the fascist is quite a monolithic bloc.
Not as big as the group of leavers that didn't support "the fascist"
If 100 leavers were asked and 99 offered no opinion, it would be crazy to take the one that did answer, either way, as more representative then the 99 who didn't. It's just so stupid it wastes everyone's time
Leavers really are moral degenerates who were quite happy to support and campaign for such a vile and racist Leave campaign, is this polling really surprising?
I wonder what the polling would say about bears and their toilet habits ?
It would be more interesting to do a thread on how the referendum has caused the biggest political realignment since the Cavaliers and Roundheads.
I've never been fond of the term Cavaliers and Roundheads.
I'm on of life's Cavaliers, but with my Republican tendencies, I'm a Roundhead.
Divine rights of Kings and Queens? You're having a laugh.
Do you say that when people like SeanT use the F or the C word?
I don't like bad language from anyone. In this instance it is both unpleasant and mysogynistic. you claim to be a christian. Oh and SeanT has abuse problems which is of course no excuse. what's yours?
Leavers really are moral degenerates who were quite happy to support and campaign for such a vile and racist Leave campaign, is this polling really surprising?
I wonder what the polling would say about bears and their toilet habits ?
It would be more interesting to do a thread on how the referendum has caused the biggest political realignment since the Cavaliers and Roundheads.
It would be more interesting if the thread writers were more honest with their readers rather than at best trolling them. It seems at first brush that they actively hate at least half of them. I see one reader has already left for the day in disgust. Its a sound policy.
Sadly the site is heading for way beyond its worst days of the referendum.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
A friend of mine - a history teacher; head of department,in fact,so should know a thing or two about reliability of sources - has just posted a link to an article in the Canary on facebook. I despair.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
But it also helps Theresa May to establish a right wing dictatorship in this country if she has an ally across the Channel who's doing the same thing.
Comments
The head of the African, Caribbean and Pacific group of nations has ruled out a free trade deal with the UK until at least six years after Brexit and taken a sideswipe at the idea of a new British trade empire.
The ACP chief, Dr Patrick Gomes, condemned “reactionary” Whitehall talk of a second era of British colonialism – dubbed “Empire 2.0” – and poured scorn on the government’s trade strategy.
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/04/28/voter-movements-stickers-switchers-and-undecideds-/
it seems that 77% of tories are sticking with them from last time but 52% for labour, 47 for Lib Dems and 43% for ukip.
UKIP are definitely trying there, as I have said they came 2nd in 50/51 council seats last time as well as 2nd in GE15. They have gone big on no Mosque being built, held anti Islamic meetings, had a street stall on the Heathway for St Georges Day etc. There is more racial tension than EU worries - the old Princess bowling lanes is now the Mountain of Fire Miracle Ministry for example. I was a teller in the constituency at the last GE and old people were coming up almost in tears, complaining about Africans gobbing on the street, pleading for UKIP to get in thinking I was the candidate!
I am biased, but 13/1 w PP UKIP seems ridiculous compared to 10/11 the Tories. Dagenham is so not a Tory place! My parents are quite typical of their generation from the area and both like May/dislike Corbyn... so aren't voting! My Dad because he doesn't want to let down his Father, who died in 1973, by voting Tory
Is Red Ken a Fascist?
Why am I not surprised ?
Anti semitic, homophobic... is he a chauvinist too?
"It's possible to act in a racist way without intending to. For example, studies have shown (if they have!) that some white people who are not racist sometimes feel uneasy about holding eye contact with a black person the same way that they do with a white person. If you think this may be you, then please try to be aware of the issue and not to discriminate in how you look at people according to their skin colour. Even if you don't realise you're doing it, you can send the wrong message."
Then they could have said
"Oops, sorry! We should have mentioned that some people, including some who are autistic, find it difficult to hold eye contact in general with people they don't know well. If this is you, please be aware that we did not mean to be critical of you for your disability."
Rather than this common-sense and down-to-earth stuff, we hear terms such as "everyday racism", "discriminating against autistic people", "racial micro-aggressions", and "equality and diversity", and a dry reference to "not (taking) disabilities into account," as if the main thing that matters is what words get written into an official policy document.
If a black person finds that two out of a group of ten white people, everything else being equal, can't look him in the eye properly for some reason, when they're OK doing it with everyone else, you can't blame him for getting pissed off.
Instead, it's dogwhistles all round, as many people are writing and saying things that are very different from what they're thinking and feeling, which isn't good.
Where do these people go to ? So the 23% who voted Tory last time. Are they going to vote Green ?
Bring on the election before it gets too bad. It has been pulled forward. Corbyn agreed.
The UKIP candidate is @peterjharris66 on twitter
Fascism is defined as extreme right-wing.
However, I'm not sure there's much difference between extreme left and right wing.
Yes, if you read the article. 9% will switch, 14% are undecided.
here's some of the graphs
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/857956305004351489
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/857956401607573504/photo/1
The head of the African, Caribbean and Pacific group of nations has ruled out a free trade deal with the UK until at least six years after Brexit and taken a sideswipe at the idea of a new British trade empire.
The ACP chief, Dr Patrick Gomes, condemned “reactionary” Whitehall talk of a second era of British colonialism – dubbed “Empire 2.0” – and poured scorn on the government’s trade strategy.
You missed out the part of the article where Gomes main concern is that his begging bowl is going to be smaller hence his 'reactionary' comment.
The only difference between categorising a hard-left and a hard-right wing dictator is whether someone likes them or not. Usually any critical assessment is dodged by just looking for the colour of the flag they wave.
Indeed. Put the views of Hitler and Corbyn side by side without their names attributed and see who assigns every view to the correct nutter.
Ed Balls should be the Labour leader. But we will have to him in first.
Ridiculous !
So, no. Avoid.
The only official definition of Fascism comes from Benito Mussolini, the founder of fascism, in which he outlines three principles of a fascist philosophy.
1."Everything in the state". The Government is supreme and the country is all-encompasing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body, often a dictator.
2."Nothing outside the state". The country must grow and the implied goal of any fascist nation is to rule the world, and have every human submit to the government.
3."Nothing against the state". Any type of questioning the government is not to be tolerated. If you do not see things our way, you are wrong. If you do not agree with the government, you cannot be allowed to live and taint the minds of the rest of the good citizens.
The use of militarism was implied only as a means to accomplish one of the three above principles, mainly to keep the people and rest of the world in line. Fascist countries are known for their harmony and lack of internal strife. There are no conflicting parties or elections in fascist countries.
Nazi Germany was extreme Fascism, better examples of fascist countries were Mussolini's Italy, Iraq, Iran, and many middle eastern countries.
I don't follow French politics but from the bit I know le Pen isn't a fascist.
There's enough information in that data to put together an alternative model for the prediction of the number of seats to UNS (for England mainly though). it would be interesting if there were a seat by seat data of Leave/Remain percentages to finesse the model.
Except protest votes, most people do not gravitate too much. Scotland 2015 was, of course, different.
Even England in 2017, after the initial hoo haa , I am not sure whether it will really be a sea-change.
Filton and Bradley Stoke MP Jack Lopresti may be deselected ahead of general election"
http://dlvr.it/P0wnKF
There used to be a Flag button for this sort of thing which was taken away, but I think that using OffTopic also generates an email to the Mods still.
I just wish they'd bring that like button back
While Remain voters choose an IRA supporter (Corbyn).
I think I will stick with Le Pen over the man who mourned for bombers and murderers.
Thanks all the same.
Nice flamebait, doesn't seem to have too much of a betting angle though? The Remain losers getting frustrated at having lost the argument?
I love how one third of the story is taken up a tweet's "Lopresti Must Go" text followed by the identical screenshot in case you couldn't read the typing. It comes from a single anonymous sweet old local lady with no agenda except caring ... but when you click on the profile is a LibDem activist.
Local unbiased media at its best!
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there
2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome
3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood
4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
I hang my head in shame for spreading FAKE NEWS and I voluntarily exile myself to an hour of so of Left4Dead2.
I expect those limits to be cut quite quickly.
Just because the seat voted to remain won't help Labour.
I was planning to cover this.
Leavers really are moral degenerates who were quite happy to support and campaign for such a vile and racist Leave campaign, is this polling really surprising?
I wonder what the polling would say about bears and their toilet habits ?
http://www.politico.eu/article/germany-burqa-ban-face-veils-soldiers-judges-civil-servants/
Almost UKIP-esque (to coin a word)
It would be better for Britain if it's her across the negotiating table during Brexit creating chaos than the other one - who is more up Merkel's arse.
Or is that No2 for you? I think it might be. After wiping off the spittle you've left over your own typing it seems close.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
It would be more interesting to do a thread on how the referendum has caused the biggest political realignment since the Cavaliers and Roundheads.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
Is anti-semitism is actually a vote loser, and for which parties? It must be hard to get elected in, say, Tower Hamlets, without sharing many opinions with Adolf.
Obviously the holocaust stuff is a bit passé, but Labour and the Lib Dems are infested with anti-semites (er, fascists?) from what I can see.
Perhaps some polling on attitudes towards Israel would be more useful?
LIKE
If 100 leavers were asked and 99 offered no opinion, it would be crazy to take the one that did answer, either way, as more representative then the 99 who didn't. It's just so stupid it wastes everyone's time
I'm on of life's Cavaliers, but with my Republican tendencies, I'm a Roundhead.
Divine rights of Kings and Queens? You're having a laugh.
OK. Theresa May is an ugly, *itch ! No swear words used !
I see one reader has already left for the day in disgust. Its a sound policy.
Sadly the site is heading for way beyond its worst days of the referendum.
It is as if some people have forgotten the true meaning of Ed Balls Day. Sad.