Just curious: the holocaust denial thing is one thing, but it seems to me that the (true, not the wishy-washy Blairite stuff) left is massively anti-semitic, from what I see on my Facebook (and they don't seem shy about it either - express something pro-Trump and you are blocked and defriended, but the anti-semitism is unembarrassed. Me to lefty 'er, that "Israel is a War-criminal" page you linked to is vile anti-semitism.' Lefty: 'foams at mouth': defriened.
Is anti-semitism is actually a vote loser, and for which parties? It must be hard to get elected in, say, Tower Hamlets, without sharing many opinions with Adolf.
Obviously the holocaust stuff is a bit passé, but Labour and the Lib Dems are infested with anti-semites (er, fascists?) from what I can see.
Perhaps some polling on attitudes towards Israel would be more useful?
You rambling post is difficult to understand. But are you suggesting that if someone has an opinion against some of the actions of the State of Israel, they are anti-Semitic ?
Leavers really are moral degenerates who were quite happy to support and campaign for such a vile and racist Leave campaign, is this polling really surprising?
I wonder what the polling would say about bears and their toilet habits ?
It would be more interesting to do a thread on how the referendum has caused the biggest political realignment since the Cavaliers and Roundheads.
It would be more interesting if the thread writers were more honest with their readers rather than at best trolling them. It seems at first brush that they actively hate at least half of them. I see one reader has already left for the day in disgust. Its a sound policy.
Sadly the site is heading for way beyond its worst days of the referendum.
Just curious: the holocaust denial thing is one thing, but it seems to me that the (true, not the wishy-washy Blairite stuff) left is massively anti-semitic, from what I see on my Facebook (and they don't seem shy about it either - express something pro-Trump and you are blocked and defriended, but the anti-semitism is unembarrassed. Me to lefty 'er, that "Israel is a War-criminal" page you linked to is vile anti-semitism.' Lefty: 'foams at mouth': defriened.
Is anti-semitism is actually a vote loser, and for which parties? It must be hard to get elected in, say, Tower Hamlets, without sharing many opinions with Adolf.
Obviously the holocaust stuff is a bit passé, but Labour and the Lib Dems are infested with anti-semites (er, fascists?) from what I can see.
Perhaps some polling on attitudes towards Israel would be more useful?
You rambling post is difficult to understand. But are you suggesting that if someone has an opinion against some of the actions of the State of Israel, they are anti-Semitic ?
I think they are suggesting that there were anti Semitic materials on that page.
Just curious: the holocaust denial thing is one thing, but it seems to me that the (true, not the wishy-washy Blairite stuff) left is massively anti-semitic, from what I see on my Facebook (and they don't seem shy about it either - express something pro-Trump and you are blocked and defriended, but the anti-semitism is unembarrassed. Me to lefty 'er, that "Israel is a War-criminal" page you linked to is vile anti-semitism.' Lefty: 'foams at mouth': defriened.
Is anti-semitism is actually a vote loser, and for which parties? It must be hard to get elected in, say, Tower Hamlets, without sharing many opinions with Adolf.
Obviously the holocaust stuff is a bit passé, but Labour and the Lib Dems are infested with anti-semites (er, fascists?) from what I can see.
Perhaps some polling on attitudes towards Israel would be more useful?
You rambling post is difficult to understand. But are you suggesting that if someone has an opinion against some of the actions of the State of Israel, they are anti-Semitic ?
I think they are suggesting that there were anti Semitic materials on that page.
Leavers really are moral degenerates who were quite happy to support and campaign for such a vile and racist Leave campaign, is this polling really surprising?
I wonder what the polling would say about bears and their toilet habits ?
It would be more interesting to do a thread on how the referendum has caused the biggest political realignment since the Cavaliers and Roundheads.
It would be more interesting if the thread writers were more honest with their readers rather than at best trolling them. It seems at first brush that they actively hate at least half of them. I see one reader has already left for the day in disgust. Its a sound policy.
Sadly the site is heading for way beyond its worst days of the referendum.
"You rambling post is difficult to understand. But are you suggesting that if someone has an opinion against some of the actions of the State of Israel, they are anti-Semitic ?"
Most of the time.
They aren't 100% the same, but just as Leave voters correlate with Le Pen or Trump, people complaining about Israel tend to be anti-semites.
It is as if some people have forgotten the true meaning of Ed Balls Day. Sad.
It's a shame the moderation has become so light touch at the same time as I became less angry.. think of all the abuse I could have thrown!
Just make sure you don't say the words "bob" and "job" in quick succession.....or was that "job" and "bob"?....
Being disallowed from replying to someone with a dozen different screen names can be tricky... especially when asking if they are the same person is also a banning offence!
It is as if some people have forgotten the true meaning of Ed Balls Day. Sad.
It's a shame the moderation has become so light touch at the same time as I became less angry.. think of all the abuse I could have thrown!
Just make sure you don't say the words "bob" and "job" in quick succession.....or was that "job" and "bob"?....
Being disallowed from replying to someone with a dozen different screen names can be tricky... especially when asking if they are the same person is also a banning offence!
Leavers really are moral degenerates who were quite happy to support and campaign for such a vile and racist Leave campaign, is this polling really surprising?
I wonder what the polling would say about bears and their toilet habits ?
It would be more interesting to do a thread on how the referendum has caused the biggest political realignment since the Cavaliers and Roundheads.
I've never been fond of the term Cavaliers and Roundheads.
I'm on of life's Cavaliers, but with my Republican tendencies, I'm a Roundhead.
Divine rights of Kings and Queens? You're having a laugh.
I seem to recollect '1066 And All That' describing the Roundheads as right but boring, and the Cavaliers as wrong but fun.
Did any history book ever improve on these definitions?
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
Yes LIKE
Thank God, you live in Gibraltar. Stay there.
We're actually at the Hampshire house right now. Across for my brother's 40th this weekend.
I've just made sure we're all safely on the Electoral Roll. It'll be a safe Con hold here but it's important not to be complacent.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
What the referendum seems to have done is to transform people who for years had been saying that society was more nuanced than meets the eye, who avoided stereotyping of people on flimsy evidence, who protested that groups of people were not "a monolith", into the people they used to criticise!
More than 8 out of 10 leavers who expressed a preference deciding to root for the fascist is quite a monolithic bloc.
Not as big as the group of leavers that didn't support "the fascist"
If 100 leavers were asked and 99 offered no opinion, it would be crazy to take the one that did answer, either way, as more representative then the 99 who didn't. It's just so stupid it wastes everyone's time
Indeed even without getting into the whole question of the accuracy of polling, that reads to me as 57% don't know. Anyone trying to draw meaningful lessons from a 57% don't know is a bit odd.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
Yes LIKE
Thank God, you live in Gibraltar. Stay there.
We're actually at the Hampshire house right now. Across for my brother's 40th this weekend.
I've just made sure we're all safely on the Electoral Roll. It'll be a safe Con hold here but it's important not to be complacent.
Haven't you received your bundle of 50 ballot papers? What are MI5 up to?!
Leavers really are moral degenerates who were quite happy to support and campaign for such a vile and racist Leave campaign, is this polling really surprising?
I wonder what the polling would say about bears and their toilet habits ?
It would be more interesting to do a thread on how the referendum has caused the biggest political realignment since the Cavaliers and Roundheads.
I've never been fond of the term Cavaliers and Roundheads.
I'm on of life's Cavaliers, but with my Republican tendencies, I'm a Roundhead.
Divine rights of Kings and Queens? You're having a laugh.
I seem to recollect '1066 And All That' describing the Roundheads as right but boring, and the Cavaliers as wrong but fun.
Did any history book ever improve on these definitions?
Leavers really are moral degenerates who were quite happy to support and campaign for such a vile and racist Leave campaign, is this polling really surprising?
I wonder what the polling would say about bears and their toilet habits ?
It would be more interesting to do a thread on how the referendum has caused the biggest political realignment since the Cavaliers and Roundheads.
I've never been fond of the term Cavaliers and Roundheads.
I'm on of life's Cavaliers, but with my Republican tendencies, I'm a Roundhead.
Divine rights of Kings and Queens? You're having a laugh.
Roundheads were just a likely to wear their hair long as Cavaliers, and Cavaliers were just as religious as Roundheads, so I'm with you as far as that goes.
As for divine right - your avatar and mine could have a lively debate about that at some point!
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Can we have a Number 5 please?
5) I'd do her niece? Fascist or not.
*I've always been a shallow bastard.
So that's me now down as 2, 5 and the first half of 3.
Is this a FPTP poll or is it some overly complicated STV affair requiring preferences?
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
Yes LIKE
Thank God, you live in Gibraltar. Stay there.
We're actually at the Hampshire house right now. Across for my brother's 40th this weekend.
I've just made sure we're all safely on the Electoral Roll. It'll be a safe Con hold here but it's important not to be complacent.
Haven't you received your bundle of 50 ballot papers? What are MI5 up to?!
There was a Facebook page I saw the other day which urged people to make sure every thing in their household was on the Register. Except the cat, as cats vote Tory.
Don’t blame me, I’m only passing it on. Never did like the scratchy mewy little songbird killers though!
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
Yes LIKE
Thank God, you live in Gibraltar. Stay there.
We're actually at the Hampshire house right now. Across for my brother's 40th this weekend.
I've just made sure we're all safely on the Electoral Roll. It'll be a safe Con hold here but it's important not to be complacent.
Haven't you received your bundle of 50 ballot papers? What are MI5 up to?!
Not yet, but they've already sent me a monogrammed pen rather than a pencil.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
Yes LIKE
Thank God, you live in Gibraltar. Stay there.
We're actually at the Hampshire house right now. Across for my brother's 40th this weekend.
I've just made sure we're all safely on the Electoral Roll. It'll be a safe Con hold here but it's important not to be complacent.
I don't want to get into arguments after what happened in our family recently, but what exactly makes Le Pen a Fascist?
Is Red Ken a Fascist?
Fascism is defined as extreme right-wing.
However, I'm not sure there's much difference between extreme left and right wing.
I used to think that was a bit simplistic, Mark, but the older I get the more I'm inclined to think it's true.
Am I growing senile?
The evidence is clear that there is a very strong overlap. Julian Assange and Nigel Farage, for example, agree about much more than they disagree about.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
Yes LIKE
Thank God, you live in Gibraltar. Stay there.
We're actually at the Hampshire house right now. Across for my brother's 40th this weekend.
I've just made sure we're all safely on the Electoral Roll. It'll be a safe Con hold here but it's important not to be complacent.
We have FPTP. So your contribution equals zero.
Wait, aren't we told relentlessly about what fraction of people didn't vote for the Tories?
"You rambling post is difficult to understand. But are you suggesting that if someone has an opinion against some of the actions of the State of Israel, they are anti-Semitic ?"
Most of the time.
They aren't 100% the same, but just as Leave voters correlate with Le Pen or Trump, people complaining about Israel tend to be anti-semites.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Can we have a Number 5 please?
5) I'd do her niece? Fascist or not.
*I've always been a shallow bastard.
Her niece is less of a fascist than a fundamentalist religious crusader. A catholic ultra. She's liberal on economics so no fan of a large powerful state and doesn't even seem to like the idea of la republique (she has been caught associating with pro-monarchy groups in France). She's always on about 'judeo-christian' war with islam and her focus is on being socially conservative rather than 'populist'.
Just curious: the holocaust denial thing is one thing, but it seems to me that the (true, not the wishy-washy Blairite stuff) left is massively anti-semitic, from what I see on my Facebook (and they don't seem shy about it either - express something pro-Trump and you are blocked and defriended, but the anti-semitism is unembarrassed. Me to lefty 'er, that "Israel is a War-criminal" page you linked to is vile anti-semitism.' Lefty: 'foams at mouth': defriened.
Is anti-semitism is actually a vote loser, and for which parties? It must be hard to get elected in, say, Tower Hamlets, without sharing many opinions with Adolf.
Obviously the holocaust stuff is a bit passé, but Labour and the Lib Dems are infested with anti-semites (er, fascists?) from what I can see.
Perhaps some polling on attitudes towards Israel would be more useful?
You rambling post is difficult to understand. But are you suggesting that if someone has an opinion against some of the actions of the State of Israel, they are anti-Semitic ?
I think they are suggesting that there were anti Semitic materials on that page.
His answer makes it clear that if anyone criticises the State of Israel, then they are anti-semites.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Can we have a Number 5 please?
5) I'd do her niece? Fascist or not.
*I've always been a shallow bastard.
Her niece is less of a fascist than a fundamentalist religious crusader. A catholic ultra. She's liberal on economics so no fan of a large powerful state and doesn't even seem to like the idea of la republique (she has been caught associating with pro-monarchy groups in France). She's always on about 'judeo-christian' war with islam and her focus is on being socially conservative rather than 'populist'.
French monarchist? It's all moot.... as soon as they become one we'll just invoke the Treaty of Troyes.
Just curious: the holocaust denial thing is one thing, but it seems to me that the (true, not the wishy-washy Blairite stuff) left is massively anti-semitic, from what I see on my Facebook (and they don't seem shy about it either - express something pro-Trump and you are blocked and defriended, but the anti-semitism is unembarrassed. Me to lefty 'er, that "Israel is a War-criminal" page you linked to is vile anti-semitism.' Lefty: 'foams at mouth': defriened.
Is anti-semitism is actually a vote loser, and for which parties? It must be hard to get elected in, say, Tower Hamlets, without sharing many opinions with Adolf.
Obviously the holocaust stuff is a bit passé, but Labour and the Lib Dems are infested with anti-semites (er, fascists?) from what I can see.
Perhaps some polling on attitudes towards Israel would be more useful?
You rambling post is difficult to understand. But are you suggesting that if someone has an opinion against some of the actions of the State of Israel, they are anti-Semitic ?
I think they are suggesting that there were anti Semitic materials on that page.
His answer makes it clear that if anyone criticises the State of Israel, then they are anti-semites.
"You rambling post is difficult to understand. But are you suggesting that if someone has an opinion against some of the actions of the State of Israel, they are anti-Semitic ?"
Most of the time.
They aren't 100% the same, but just as Leave voters correlate with Le Pen or Trump, people complaining about Israel tend to be anti-semites.
Presumably, that includes Jews as well ?
The left do have a few pet Jewish self-haters out there who get more air time, especially in the US, than they merit.
It is as if some people have forgotten the true meaning of Ed Balls Day. Sad.
It always gets like this over Ed Balls dinner.
True. The kids are all over-excited from playing with all the toys Ed Balls brought them. The adults have all been swigging sickly, Yvette Cooper-flavoured Baileys since 10am. It's an incendiary mix.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Can we have a Number 5 please?
5) I'd do her niece? Fascist or not.
*I've always been a shallow bastard.
Her niece is less of a fascist than a fundamentalist religious crusader. A catholic ultra. She's liberal on economics so no fan of a large powerful state and doesn't even seem to like the idea of la republique (she has been caught associating with pro-monarchy groups in France). She's always on about 'judeo-christian' war with islam and her focus is on being socially conservative rather than 'populist'.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Can we have a Number 5 please?
5) I'd do her niece? Fascist or not.
*I've always been a shallow bastard.
Her niece is less of a fascist than a fundamentalist religious crusader. A catholic ultra. She's liberal on economics so no fan of a large powerful state and doesn't even seem to like the idea of la republique (she has been caught associating with pro-monarchy groups in France). She's always on about 'judeo-christian' war with islam and her focus is on being socially conservative rather than 'populist'.
"Charles I was a Cavalier King and therefore had a small pointed beard, long flowing curls, a large, flat, flowing hat and gay attire. The Roundheads, on the other hand, were clean-shaven, and wore tall, conical hats, white ties and sombre garments. Under these circumstances a Civil War was inevitable." Be warned.
Is it really that simple? MLP's economic policies seem indistinguishable from Corbyn's. I guess Jezza is another fascist. He's certainly a herbivore. (and an anti-semite) (and seems very OK with violence)
Does Jezza actually have proper policies?
Rather than being a 'fascist', I think Mme Le Pen is more in the mould of the Kirchner's of Argentina. Lots of popular things that can't be paid for (more money for pensioners!), plus trade barriers (35% across the board in the case of Mme Le Pen).
One of the big problems in Europe right now is a lack of sensible Eurosceptic parties. Almost all the Eurosceptic parties on the continent believe that the EU is too pro-free trade. The AfD - for a while - was a sensible Eurosceptic party and then went through some schisms and followed the FN path. But the PVV are bonkers, the FN would destroy the French economy, and Forza Italia is still run by a complete crook.
It is as if some people have forgotten the true meaning of Ed Balls Day. Sad.
It always gets like this over Ed Balls dinner.
True. The kids are all over-excited from playing with all the toys Ed Balls brought them. The adults have all been swigging sickly, Yvette Cooper-flavoured Baileys since 10am. It's an incendiary mix.
Leavers really are moral degenerates who were quite happy to support and campaign for such a vile and racist Leave campaign, is this polling really surprising?
I wonder what the polling would say about bears and their toilet habits ?
It would be more interesting to do a thread on how the referendum has caused the biggest political realignment since the Cavaliers and Roundheads.
I've never been fond of the term Cavaliers and Roundheads.
I'm on of life's Cavaliers, but with my Republican tendencies, I'm a Roundhead.
Divine rights of Kings and Queens? You're having a laugh.
I seem to recollect '1066 And All That' describing the Roundheads as right but boring, and the Cavaliers as wrong but fun.
Did any history book ever improve on these definitions?
'Wrong but romantic' and 'Right but repulsive'
Thank you, Richard. Might have guessed you'd be a fan too.
I wonder if this MP will be replaced? I mean retired or forced to step down? Maybe he will defect to the Lib Dems as he would find his views similar to Tim Farron!
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
What the referendum seems to have done is to transform people who for years had been saying that society was more nuanced than meets the eye, who avoided stereotyping of people on flimsy evidence, who protested that groups of people were not "a monolith", into the people they used to criticise!
More than 8 out of 10 leavers who expressed a preference deciding to root for the fascist is quite a monolithic bloc.
Quite in keeping witb the sympaties expressed by Leavers on PB, though some are more discreet than others..
Corbyn's ally Katy Clark withdrew before NEC interview today. Platt had support from all the local powers: the council leader, Andy Burnham, the local branch of Momentum
Is it really that simple? MLP's economic policies seem indistinguishable from Corbyn's. I guess Jezza is another fascist. He's certainly a herbivore. (and an anti-semite) (and seems very OK with violence)
Does Jezza actually have proper policies?
Rather than being a 'fascist', I think Mme Le Pen is more in the mould of the Kirchner's of Argentina. Lots of popular things that can't be paid for (more money for pensioners!), plus trade barriers (35% across the board in the case of Mme Le Pen).
One of the big problems in Europe right now is a lack of sensible Eurosceptic parties. Almost all the Eurosceptic parties on the continent believe that the EU is too pro-free trade. The AfD - for a while - was a sensible Eurosceptic party and then went through some schisms and followed the FN path. But the PVV are bonkers, the FN would destroy the French economy, and Forza Italia is still run by a complete crook.
Yes. And UKIP's trade / economic views are out to lunch as well. But the necessary first step in having a sensible policy is to leave. MLP is a nasty lefty - and the % of lefties with a coherent economic policy is a number not unadjacent to zero. The ONLY spot-on good policy she has is to get the fuck out of Dodge.
Leavers really are moral degenerates who were quite happy to support and campaign for such a vile and racist Leave campaign, is this polling really surprising?
I wonder what the polling would say about bears and their toilet habits ?
It would be more interesting to do a thread on how the referendum has caused the biggest political realignment since the Cavaliers and Roundheads.
...
Sadly the site is heading for way beyond its worst days of the referendum.
Alas, I fear you are correct. We had a few days recently when the site returned to its best and the discussion of odds and probabilities came once again to the fore. You know, political betting stuff. However, we have descended again to people trying to re-fight the Referendum and, even worse, calling the Prime Minister a "lying bitch" for no apparent reason Sad really but it is OGH's site.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
As the EU27 have clearly and consistently stated, Brexit means Brexit.
Hardline leavers should be very happy with the EU position, they are clear that there is no halfway house soft Brexit. The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.
As a matter of common courtesy, not to mention in aid of clarity, it would be so so easy if, when labeling groups of opponents or merely those with an alternate view as vile, idiotic and detestable, people could take the time to add the words 'some', 'many', 'most' or 'nearly all'. It would cost nothing.
I wonder if this MP will be replaced? I mean retired or forced to step down? Maybe he will defect to the Lib Dems as he would find his views similar to Tim Farron!
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
What the referendum seems to have done is to transform people who for years had been saying that society was more nuanced than meets the eye, who avoided stereotyping of people on flimsy evidence, who protested that groups of people were not "a monolith", into the people they used to criticise!
More than 8 out of 10 leavers who expressed a preference deciding to root for the fascist is quite a monolithic bloc.
Quite in keeping witb the sympaties expressed by Leavers on PB, though some are more discreet than others..
No it's just a stupid question.
People were asked, based on their vague impressions of the 2 French candidates, which they thought would be best for Britain.
Le Pen (seen as anti-EU) was preferred by Leavers.
Macron (seen as pro-EU) was preferred by Remainers.
To be clear. They were not asked "Le Pen is a fascist, would you vote for her", but that's the way some seem to be interpreting it.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
As the EU27 have clearly and consistently stated, Brexit means Brexit.
Hardline leavers should be very happy with the EU position, they are clear that there is no halfway house soft Brexit. The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.
As suchhardline Leavers should support Macron.
You were right up to the final sentence. If we want to secure the largest possible payment and the smoothest possible clean WTO exit it surely assists us to have an EU in turmoil rather than Macron parroting German lines?
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.
I presume the final bill for diamond Brexit will be £0.01 - but with a free finger wave attached.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Can we have a Number 5 please?
5) I'd do her niece? Fascist or not.
*I've always been a shallow bastard.
Her niece is less of a fascist than a fundamentalist religious crusader. A catholic ultra. She's liberal on economics so no fan of a large powerful state and doesn't even seem to like the idea of la republique (she has been caught associating with pro-monarchy groups in France). She's always on about 'judeo-christian' war with islam and her focus is on being socially conservative rather than 'populist'.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
As the EU27 have clearly and consistently stated, Brexit means Brexit.
Hardline leavers should be very happy with the EU position, they are clear that there is no halfway house soft Brexit. The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.
I wonder if this MP will be replaced? I mean retired or forced to step down? Maybe he will defect to the Lib Dems as he would find his views similar to Tim Farron!
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Can we have a Number 5 please?
5) I'd do her niece? Fascist or not.
*I've always been a shallow bastard.
Her niece is less of a fascist than a fundamentalist religious crusader. A catholic ultra. She's liberal on economics so no fan of a large powerful state and doesn't even seem to like the idea of la republique (she has been caught associating with pro-monarchy groups in France). She's always on about 'judeo-christian' war with islam and her focus is on being socially conservative rather than 'populist'.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
As the EU27 have clearly and consistently stated, Brexit means Brexit.
Hardline leavers should be very happy with the EU position, they are clear that there is no halfway house soft Brexit. The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.
As suchhardline Leavers should support Macron.
You were right up to the final sentence. If we want to secure the largest possible payment and the smoothest possible clean WTO exit it surely assists us to have an EU in turmoil rather than Macron parroting German lines?
Yep, makes sense for us to want economic turmoil visited on our biggest export market.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Can we have a Number 5 please?
5) I'd do her niece? Fascist or not.
*I've always been a shallow bastard.
Her niece is less of a fascist than a fundamentalist religious crusader. A catholic ultra. She's liberal on economics so no fan of a large powerful state and doesn't even seem to like the idea of la republique (she has been caught associating with pro-monarchy groups in France). She's always on about 'judeo-christian' war with islam and her focus is on being socially conservative rather than 'populist'.
In a word then, she's 'barking'.
On the contrary, she sounds great!
Down, boy. Barking but not tasteless.
Are we reheating the Restaurant B serving Roast Dog comparison from yesterday?
I wonder if this MP will be replaced? I mean retired or forced to step down? Maybe he will defect to the Lib Dems as he would find his views similar to Tim Farron!
I wonder if this MP will be replaced? I mean retired or forced to step down? Maybe he will defect to the Lib Dems as he would find his views similar to Tim Farron!
I thought Farron had made it clear that he didn’t hold those views
Why would somebody make it up? Farron probably did respond in a way that left him open to accusations. It is embarrassing for him and indeed he has not said "No, I never said that", rather he has said as part of the coalition government (which he did not support and laughably called the Tories Toxic at the time) they instigated several policies that Homosexuals wanted to get equality in front of the law.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
As the EU27 have clearly and consistently stated, Brexit means Brexit.
Hardline leavers should be very happy with the EU position, they are clear that there is no halfway house soft Brexit. The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.
As suchhardline Leavers should support Macron.
You were right up to the final sentence. If we want to secure the largest possible payment and the smoothest possible clean WTO exit it surely assists us to have an EU in turmoil rather than Macron parroting German lines?
Yep, makes sense for us to want economic turmoil visited on our biggest export market.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.
I presume the final bill for diamond Brexit will be £0.01 - but with a free finger wave attached.
I think that probably correct. Any significant bill will be a political suicide pill for the MPs backing paying it. It could well be why May wants a big majority. It is the Leave Fundamentalists ratber than the Remainers who pose the biggest threat to her.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
What the referendum seems to have done is to transform people who for years had been saying that society was more nuanced than meets the eye, who avoided stereotyping of people on flimsy evidence, who protested that groups of people were not "a monolith", into the people they used to criticise!
More than 8 out of 10 leavers who expressed a preference deciding to root for the fascist is quite a monolithic bloc.
At least they haven't happily bought houses in countries run by actual Fascists, as you have, in Orban's Hungary, which you now apparently consider your "spiritual home".
Two grotesque factual errors in a single sentence.
Almost all thread headers have a byline - TSE or Mike or some other contributor.
I do find it amusing that when a thread header is quite clearly utter bollocks and makes claims unsupported by the basic data, no one is honest enough to actually put their name to it.
If a political party made a dishonest claim like this in their flyers then this site would be all over it.
I wonder if this MP will be replaced? I mean retired or forced to step down? Maybe he will defect to the Lib Dems as he would find his views similar to Tim Farron!
That's a very odd article. What's the Mail got against Andrew Turner?
Did Dacre fall out with him at a drinks party, or something?
I think the Tories on the isle of White have some beef with him about his relationship with his wife. Maybe someone wants to prise him out of the seat? From what I remember of the "scandal" I was puzzled as he looked to be the victim rather than the perpetrator of anything but my memory may be playing tricks! Politics can be very harsh.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.
I presume the final bill for diamond Brexit will be £0.01 - but with a free finger wave attached.
I think that probably correct. Any significant bill will be a political suicide pill for the MPs backing paying it. It could well be why May wants a big majority. It is the Leave Fundamentalists ratber than the Remainers who pose the biggest threat to her.
Why do we not get money back?
The Scots thought that they were entitled to 10% of everything back including 10% of all shared embassy floor space.
Why do the EU not, on the same measure, owe us 1/27th of everything?
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.
I presume the final bill for diamond Brexit will be £0.01 - but with a free finger wave attached.
I think that probably correct. Any significant bill will be a political suicide pill for the MPs backing paying it. It could well be why May wants a big majority. It is the Leave Fundamentalists ratber than the Remainers who pose the biggest threat to her.
Why do we not get money back?
The Scots thought that they were entitled to 10% of everything back including 10% of all shared embassy floor space.
Why do the EU not, on the same measure, owe us 1/27th of everything?
I don't think that we should pay a penny post Brexit.
I wonder if this MP will be replaced? I mean retired or forced to step down? Maybe he will defect to the Lib Dems as he would find his views similar to Tim Farron!
That's a very odd article. What's the Mail got against Andrew Turner?
Did Dacre fall out with him at a drinks party, or something?
I think the Tories on the isle of White have some beef with him about his relationship with his wife. Maybe someone wants to prise him out of the seat? From what I remember of the "scandal" I was puzzled as he looked to be the victim rather than the perpetrator of anything but my memory may be playing tricks! Politics can be very harsh.
It's a little bit more complicated. His girlfriend had an affair with a prominent fellow Conservative:
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.
I presume the final bill for diamond Brexit will be £0.01 - but with a free finger wave attached.
I think that probably correct. Any significant bill will be a political suicide pill for the MPs backing paying it. It could well be why May wants a big majority. It is the Leave Fundamentalists ratber than the Remainers who pose the biggest threat to her.
Why do we not get money back?
The Scots thought that they were entitled to 10% of everything back including 10% of all shared embassy floor space.
Why do the EU not, on the same measure, owe us 1/27th of everything?
Because, thank god, we weren't in it when it became a fully fledged country.
It seems that we have a four way split on topic between Leavers:
1) Leavers don't really support Marine Le Pen and the fact that nearly 9 out of 10 of those who expressed a preference named her is neither here nor there 2) Thinking that Marine Le Pen is best for Britain isn't the same as thinking that Marine Le Pen is the more desirable outcome 3) Marine Le Pen isn't really a fascist and is sadly misunderstood 4) Hurrah for the blackshirts!
Most of us think she's far too liberal.
Be sensible, Alastair.
Le Pen's election is much the more likely to throw the EU into disarray and could conceivably lead to its demise, the only circumstance which might in retrospect make Brexit appear to have been a wise policy.
That is the basic point. There is nothing that Leavers are not prepared to sacrifice, whether it be independence of the judiciary, Parliamentary accountability of government or the democracy of one of our closest neighbours, if that sacrifice might assist in some minor way Britain leaving the EU.
The world can burn, so long as among the embers is a Britain that has left the EU.
As the EU27 have clearly and consistently stated, Brexit means Brexit.
Hardline leavers should be very happy with the EU position, they are clear that there is no halfway house soft Brexit. The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.
As suchhardline Leavers should support Macron.
You were right up to the final sentence. If we want to secure the largest possible payment and the smoothest possible clean WTO exit it surely assists us to have an EU in turmoil rather than Macron parroting German lines?
Yep, makes sense for us to want economic turmoil visited on our biggest export market.
The US? How did they come into this thread?
We don't send 40%+ of our exports to the US. We send them to the member states of the European Union.
I wonder when the left got into bed with Nazis? I am in a mostly Muslim country and Hitler t-shirts and swastika motorbike stickers are very popular. There are lots of translations of the Protocols of the Elders Of Zion and such like online.
It strikes me that in terms of social views they have nothing in common with the Western left - there is no question here that Islamist parties are right-wing.
Are the Western left just very stupid? Or do far-right extremists stop being far-right extremists when they emigrate to a country where their views are not within the mainstream, and instead become 'friends of Jeremy'?
Comments
Am I growing senile?
Most of the time.
They aren't 100% the same, but just as Leave voters correlate with Le Pen or Trump, people complaining about Israel tend to be anti-semites.
Did any history book ever improve on these definitions?
Across for my brother's 40th this weekend.
I've just made sure we're all safely on the Electoral Roll.
It'll be a safe Con hold here but it's important not to be complacent.
5) I'd do her niece? Fascist or not.
*I've always been a shallow bastard.
As for divine right - your avatar and mine could have a lively debate about that at some point!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmfHid85XoM
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/857971147656310786
Is this a FPTP poll or is it some overly complicated STV affair requiring preferences?
Except the cat, as cats vote Tory.
Don’t blame me, I’m only passing it on. Never did like the scratchy mewy little songbird killers though!
Lies, damn lies.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/22/revealed-jeremy-corbyn-showed-off-naked-diane-abbott-to-impress/
See? Jezza loves women.
A vote young oedipus thread
I said 'most'. Is English not your first language?
Rather than being a 'fascist', I think Mme Le Pen is more in the mould of the Kirchner's of Argentina. Lots of popular things that can't be paid for (more money for pensioners!), plus trade barriers (35% across the board in the case of Mme Le Pen).
One of the big problems in Europe right now is a lack of sensible Eurosceptic parties. Almost all the Eurosceptic parties on the continent believe that the EU is too pro-free trade. The AfD - for a while - was a sensible Eurosceptic party and then went through some schisms and followed the FN path. But the PVV are bonkers, the FN would destroy the French economy, and Forza Italia is still run by a complete crook.
Yvette Cooper-flavoured Baileys
Oh thank you so very much for that.
*shudders*
Rule 34, surely?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4455962/Student-says-MP-told-class-homosexuality-wrong.html
Corbyn's ally Katy Clark withdrew before NEC interview today.
Platt had support from all the local powers: the council leader, Andy Burnham, the local branch of Momentum
Hardline leavers should be very happy with the EU position, they are clear that there is no halfway house soft Brexit. The only thing that needs discussing is the process of hard Brexit and the final bill.
Hardline Leavers should support Macron.
But fuck that I guess.
No it's just a stupid question.
People were asked, based on their vague impressions of the 2 French candidates, which they thought would be best for Britain.
Le Pen (seen as anti-EU) was preferred by Leavers.
Macron (seen as pro-EU) was preferred by Remainers.
To be clear. They were not asked "Le Pen is a fascist, would you vote for her", but that's the way some seem to be interpreting it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4448404/Saudi-Arabia-sends-atheist-death-renouncing-Islam.html
We're used to a much higher standard of trolling
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/work/trade-unions/news/85460/excl-blow-len-mccluskey-hard-left-have-majority-slashed-unites
Did Dacre fall out with him at a drinks party, or something?
We'll be getting a YouGov poll in The Sunday Times every weekend until polling day.
Say it ain't so, Joe?
For once, the DM is right. Andrew Turner is a complete pillock.
Farron probably did respond in a way that left him open to accusations. It is embarrassing for him and indeed he has not said "No, I never said that", rather he has said as part of the coalition government (which he did not support and laughably called the Tories Toxic at the time) they instigated several policies that Homosexuals wanted to get equality in front of the law.
You're improving.
Almost all thread headers have a byline - TSE or Mike or some other contributor.
I do find it amusing that when a thread header is quite clearly utter bollocks and makes claims unsupported by the basic data, no one is honest enough to actually put their name to it.
If a political party made a dishonest claim like this in their flyers then this site would be all over it.
The Scots thought that they were entitled to 10% of everything back including 10% of all shared embassy floor space.
Why do the EU not, on the same measure, owe us 1/27th of everything?
It is 1st April?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8382132.stm
Mind you, I have a copy on Kindle myself. It is pretty unreadable.
The EU27 think differently of course.
https://onthewight.com/andrew-turner-mp-split-due-affair/
It strikes me that in terms of social views they have nothing in common with the Western left - there is no question here that Islamist parties are right-wing.
Are the Western left just very stupid? Or do far-right extremists stop being far-right extremists when they emigrate to a country where their views are not within the mainstream, and instead become 'friends of Jeremy'?