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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Less than a week after Mrs. May’s GE2017 announcement YouGov’s

SystemSystem Posts: 12,032
edited April 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Less than a week after Mrs. May’s GE2017 announcement YouGov’s Brexit “right/wrong” tracker moves to level-pegging

Given the overwhelming importance of the Brexit negotiations in Mrs May’s stated reason for the early General Election then it is important to continue to follow how voters now view that decision last June.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • tysontyson Posts: 6,101
    Perhaps Brexit isn't the great be and end all issue that everything thinks. I think the only two vote shifting issues are the IndyRef in Scotland which will shift votes to the Tories, and the overriding Corbyn is fucking toxic which is likely to define politics for a generation.....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,335
    2nd. Unlike Labour.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,871
    Of course Mrs May herself backed Remain as indeed did I but given we voted Leave there is no point going back now and unless the LDs get most MPs we won't. The question has now moved on to whether you put membership of the single market first or ending free movement and reducing payments to Brussels, if the former you will vote Labour, LD, SNP, Plaid, Sinn Fein or Green if the latter Tory, UKIP or DUP
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    2nd. Unlike Labour.

    I think they will be, though
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,335
    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/856476205771616256

    Something Corbyn wont need to worry about finding time for.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,335
    Freggles said:

    2nd. Unlike Labour.

    I think they will be, though
    Yes, probably. I was being flippant. But FPTP can be brutal if a tipping point is reached.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    edited April 2017
    MOE or thereabouts and therefore non-story.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,335
    edited April 2017
    deleted
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,556
    "[32%] seems a very high proportion given the huge emphasis being put on this by Mrs May and other polling that has the voting intention figures moving sharply to the Tories."

    But the emphasis is on (1) respecting the vote and, consequently, (2) delivering the best Brexit she can in the context of the inferred instructions the nation's given her. Most Tory Remainers (like me) might still regret the original decision but support the strategy that's been taken given the decision was what it was.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited April 2017
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,335
    Yvette back as fav on BF for next leader.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,871

    MOE or thereabouts and therefore non-story.

    Of course Yougov had Remain actually ahead in its final EU referendum poll
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,582
    I've been chewing over the weekend's opinion polls and have come to the conclusion that it's going to be a Bang Super Nova Tory landslide.

    Even if you want Labour to win, you know it's never going to happen under Jezz. Theresa seems harmless enough, so just vote Tory to humiliate him and get rid - a clean slate for next time. We have the bizarre paradox whereby voting Tory will actually help Labour (albeit perhaps not in the immediate short term). I can see no flaw in my reasoning.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    tyson said:

    Perhaps Brexit isn't the great be and end all issue that everything thinks. I think the only two vote shifting issues are the IndyRef in Scotland which will shift votes to the Tories, and the overriding Corbyn is fucking toxic which is likely to define politics for a generation.....

    I agree. Brexit is receding in the rear view mirror for the non-political classes. It will come back to bite the government if we get a recession which can (whether correctly or not) be attributed to the government, and even then the outcome is quite likely to be that if people think the tories are responsible they will also think that only the tories have the competence to sort out the mess. Indeed that is inevitable if Labour remains as Corbynish as it is.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,524
    edited April 2017
    If the country stays split and the polls more towards Brexit being the wrong choice, perhaps May could engineer a second referendum with a choice of the deal or remaining, in which May would be neutral and not campaign.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,335

    I've been chewing over the weekend's opinion polls and have come to the conclusion that it's going to be a Bang Super Nova Tory landslide.

    Even if you want Labour to win, you know it's never going to happen under Jezz. Theresa seems harmless enough, so just vote Tory to humiliate him and get rid - a clean slate for next time. We have the bizarre paradox whereby voting Tory will actually help Labour (albeit perhaps not in the immediate short term). I can see no flaw in my reasoning.

    I agree on reasoning, but not sure that the Labour brand won't hold out, despite Corbyn, thereby giving the worst result possible for Labour: loss of a few dozen seats + Corbyn stays.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    There's always a thread and a barchart the once a month that the tracker moves level. :smiley:
  • Yvette back as fav on BF for next leader.

    But how does she erradicate Corbyn. My advice to labour for this election only is vote conservative and decapitate him
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/856476205771616256

    Something Corbyn wont need to worry about finding time for.

    Imagine there's around 15 Tory MPs who haven't been invited !!
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Yvette back as fav on BF for next leader.

    Will she be immune to the coming storm. That is the question. She will I guess but I bet she has to do some campaigning at home.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,556
    Meanwhile, a new ICM appears to be out, with another Con 20+ lead and Con in high-40s.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,135

    If the country stays split and the polls more towards Brexit being the wrong choice, perhaps May could engineer a second referendum with a choice of the deal or remaining, in which May would be neutral and not campaign.

    The sound of straws being clutched.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,845

    I've been chewing over the weekend's opinion polls and have come to the conclusion that it's going to be a Bang Super Nova Tory landslide.

    Even if you want Labour to win, you know it's never going to happen under Jezz. Theresa seems harmless enough, so just vote Tory to humiliate him and get rid - a clean slate for next time. We have the bizarre paradox whereby voting Tory will actually help Labour (albeit perhaps not in the immediate short term). I can see no flaw in my reasoning.

    What if all of the potential leadership candidates lose their seats?

    We would then be left with Abbott and Thornberry as the only potential replacements!
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,656

    I've been chewing over the weekend's opinion polls and have come to the conclusion that it's going to be a Bang Super Nova Tory landslide.

    Even if you want Labour to win, you know it's never going to happen under Jezz. Theresa seems harmless enough, so just vote Tory to humiliate him and get rid - a clean slate for next time. We have the bizarre paradox whereby voting Tory will actually help Labour (albeit perhaps not in the immediate short term). I can see no flaw in my reasoning.

    I agree on reasoning, but not sure that the Labour brand won't hold out, despite Corbyn, thereby giving the worst result possible for Labour: loss of a few dozen seats + Corbyn stays.
    Corbyn doesn't give a toss how many seats he loses. He's going nowhere, no matter what. Why are people assuming that he will suddenly become a) self-aware b) contrite and c) the slightest bit concerned about the long term electoral future of the Labour party?
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    If the country stays split and the polls more towards Brexit being the wrong choice, perhaps May could engineer a second referendum with a choice of the deal or remaining, in which May would be neutral and not campaign.

    Definitely not, Mr Glenn. Although if she came out and stated categorically that there would not be a second referendum, then you can be pretty sure that she might. With herself leading both sides of the argument, in all probability.
  • wills66wills66 Posts: 103
    I'm not sure I agree that the Conservatives are putting a "huge emphasis" on Brexit, to me they're putting the emphasis on stability and continuity. I suspect that, in the minds of the electorate, Brexit is now just one of those things that's going to happen, like sunshine or rain.

    This is a general election, historically decided on 3 items:

    1. How's the economy doing?
    2. Who do I think should be PM?
    3. Which party has got it's s**t together?

    The large Conservative lead over Labour is based on these factors, not Brexit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,871

    If the country stays split and the polls more towards Brexit being the wrong choice, perhaps May could engineer a second referendum with a choice of the deal or remaining, in which May would be neutral and not campaign.

    I doubt it at most it will be the single market we return to not the full EU
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,582

    I've been chewing over the weekend's opinion polls and have come to the conclusion that it's going to be a Bang Super Nova Tory landslide.

    Even if you want Labour to win, you know it's never going to happen under Jezz. Theresa seems harmless enough, so just vote Tory to humiliate him and get rid - a clean slate for next time. We have the bizarre paradox whereby voting Tory will actually help Labour (albeit perhaps not in the immediate short term). I can see no flaw in my reasoning.

    I agree on reasoning, but not sure that the Labour brand won't hold out, despite Corbyn, thereby giving the worst result possible for Labour: loss of a few dozen seats + Corbyn stays.
    Thing is, Jezz is widely perceived as a cuckoo in the nest - something that couldn't even be said about IDS with the Tories. The love of the Labour brand will see vast swathes of voters snub his leadership to preserve it.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,149

    Meanwhile, a new ICM appears to be out, with another Con 20+ lead and Con in high-40s.

    Is that yesterday's Peston one or a new Grauniad one? figures?
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,198

    I've been chewing over the weekend's opinion polls and have come to the conclusion that it's going to be a Bang Super Nova Tory landslide.

    Even if you want Labour to win, you know it's never going to happen under Jezz. Theresa seems harmless enough, so just vote Tory to humiliate him and get rid - a clean slate for next time. We have the bizarre paradox whereby voting Tory will actually help Labour (albeit perhaps not in the immediate short term). I can see no flaw in my reasoning.

    What if all of the potential leadership candidates lose their seats?

    We would then be left with Abbott and Thornberry as the only potential replacements!
    Which of the potential candidates are vulnerable? Perhaps a better question is which ones aren't?
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,149
    https://twitter.com/mr_trubshawe/status/856478119322144768

    Suspect it's photoshopped and fake but you can't tell nowadays
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,582
    Dura_Ace said:

    I've been chewing over the weekend's opinion polls and have come to the conclusion that it's going to be a Bang Super Nova Tory landslide.

    Even if you want Labour to win, you know it's never going to happen under Jezz. Theresa seems harmless enough, so just vote Tory to humiliate him and get rid - a clean slate for next time. We have the bizarre paradox whereby voting Tory will actually help Labour (albeit perhaps not in the immediate short term). I can see no flaw in my reasoning.

    I agree on reasoning, but not sure that the Labour brand won't hold out, despite Corbyn, thereby giving the worst result possible for Labour: loss of a few dozen seats + Corbyn stays.
    Corbyn doesn't give a toss how many seats he loses. He's going nowhere, no matter what. Why are people assuming that he will suddenly become a) self-aware b) contrite and c) the slightest bit concerned about the long term electoral future of the Labour party?
    Yes, whether deserting Labour for its own good will have the desired effect is yet to be seen. My sense though is that many voters are now prepared to try it.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Meanwhile, a new ICM appears to be out, with another Con 20+ lead and Con in high-40s.

    When are the full figures being released?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411
    ToryJim said:

    Meanwhile, a new ICM appears to be out, with another Con 20+ lead and Con in high-40s.

    Is that yesterday's Peston one or a new Grauniad one? figures?
    I'd love to know the internal leave/remain splits of these polls rather than guess !
  • I think it'd be wrong to equate saying that voting to leave the EU was wrong with thinking undoing the vote is a priority.

    There will be those who don't care that much (I remember the days of Mike posting polls illustrating that pre-referendum - it's certainly shot up the agenda, but the NHS and economy haven't gone away).

    There will be those who see it as wrong but inevitable, and just want the thing done with minimum fuss and pain (ideally by someone competent and businesslike).

    And there will be those who care about it quite deeply but recognise that there's not much they can do in their constituency - in Lab/Con marginals, the big players aren't offering what you want, so you either cast a protest vote or hold your nose and decide who's least worst.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,866
    ToryJim said:

    https://twitter.com/mr_trubshawe/status/856478119322144768

    Suspect it's photoshopped and fake but you can't tell nowadays

    Spelling Intelligent incorrectly is bad enough, but spelling Corbyn wrong too?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,530

    If the country stays split and the polls more towards Brexit being the wrong choice, perhaps May could engineer a second referendum with a choice of the deal or remaining, in which May would be neutral and not campaign.

    It seems like the obvious move, doesn't it? The political benefit is that the anti-EU side will have to pretend to like the deal she comes up with to avoid Brexit getting reversed. If they try to tell everyone it's a traitorous sell-out they'll risk depressing their own turn-out.

    It also either covers her arse in case of an economically hairy couple of years post-Brexit (the voters voted for it, it's their fault not hers) or gets her off the hook entirely and gives the economy a nice boost.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,892
    Dura_Ace said:

    I've been chewing over the weekend's opinion polls and have come to the conclusion that it's going to be a Bang Super Nova Tory landslide.

    Even if you want Labour to win, you know it's never going to happen under Jezz. Theresa seems harmless enough, so just vote Tory to humiliate him and get rid - a clean slate for next time. We have the bizarre paradox whereby voting Tory will actually help Labour (albeit perhaps not in the immediate short term). I can see no flaw in my reasoning.

    I agree on reasoning, but not sure that the Labour brand won't hold out, despite Corbyn, thereby giving the worst result possible for Labour: loss of a few dozen seats + Corbyn stays.
    Corbyn doesn't give a toss how many seats he loses. He's going nowhere, no matter what. Why are people assuming that he will suddenly become a) self-aware b) contrite and c) the slightest bit concerned about the long term electoral future of the Labour party?
    68% of Labour members said he should stand down if he loses a General Election.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,656

    Yvette back as fav on BF for next leader.

    I think this is actually a good call if only they could pry Corbyn's palsied talons off the levers of power. She has a very similar, and equally unappealing, blend of sanctimony, tedium and androgyny to May. Fight fire with fire.
  • HYUFD said:

    Of course Mrs May herself backed Remain as indeed did I but given we voted Leave there is no point going back now and unless the LDs get most MPs we won't. The question has now moved on to whether you put membership of the single market first or ending free movement and reducing payments to Brussels, if the former you will vote Labour, LD, SNP, Plaid, Sinn Fein or Green if the latter Tory, UKIP or DUP

    Hello again, HYUFD. Can you put me right on something? I had you down as one of our (many) excellent US contributors, but this latest post indicates you are a UK voter. Can you confirm, one way or the the other?

    And if you thought I was being snarky about your persistence with the 'MLP can make it' line, don't get me wrong. I really enjoyed your contributions last nite and was sufficiently inclined to share your view to hedge my Macron bets. It only cost a few quid, and nobody ever went poor locking in a profit.

    As for voting this time, the Corbyn cult will pass so traditional Labour voters like me can feel free to do whatever they like and wait for sanity to return in due course. My local MP is Brexit-supporter John Cryer, so I'll be giving him a miss this time round. With a 15,000 majority, I doubt he'll notice, but what else can you do?

    Thanks again for all your excellent contributions, past and present.

    PtP
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,149

    ToryJim said:

    https://twitter.com/mr_trubshawe/status/856478119322144768

    Suspect it's photoshopped and fake but you can't tell nowadays

    Spelling Intelligent incorrectly is bad enough, but spelling Corbyn wrong too?
    Well quite which is why I'm suspicious.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,198
    Dura_Ace said:

    Yvette back as fav on BF for next leader.

    I think this is actually a good call if only they could pry Corbyn's palsied talons off the levers of power. She has a very similar, and equally unappealing, blend of sanctimony, tedium and androgyny to May. Fight fire with fire.
    How likely is she to keep her seat?
  • Artist said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I've been chewing over the weekend's opinion polls and have come to the conclusion that it's going to be a Bang Super Nova Tory landslide.

    Even if you want Labour to win, you know it's never going to happen under Jezz. Theresa seems harmless enough, so just vote Tory to humiliate him and get rid - a clean slate for next time. We have the bizarre paradox whereby voting Tory will actually help Labour (albeit perhaps not in the immediate short term). I can see no flaw in my reasoning.

    I agree on reasoning, but not sure that the Labour brand won't hold out, despite Corbyn, thereby giving the worst result possible for Labour: loss of a few dozen seats + Corbyn stays.
    Corbyn doesn't give a toss how many seats he loses. He's going nowhere, no matter what. Why are people assuming that he will suddenly become a) self-aware b) contrite and c) the slightest bit concerned about the long term electoral future of the Labour party?
    68% of Labour members said he should stand down if he loses a General Election.
    That nevertheless reflects a much greater level of support than the late great Joe Stalin enjoyed, so I don't think that will bother him.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411

    Dura_Ace said:

    Yvette back as fav on BF for next leader.

    I think this is actually a good call if only they could pry Corbyn's palsied talons off the levers of power. She has a very similar, and equally unappealing, blend of sanctimony, tedium and androgyny to May. Fight fire with fire.
    How likely is she to keep her seat?
    She should be safe enough, but you never know.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,556

    ToryJim said:

    https://twitter.com/mr_trubshawe/status/856478119322144768

    Suspect it's photoshopped and fake but you can't tell nowadays

    Spelling Intelligent incorrectly is bad enough, but spelling Corbyn wrong too?
    Onourable?!
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Pulpstar said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Yvette back as fav on BF for next leader.

    I think this is actually a good call if only they could pry Corbyn's palsied talons off the levers of power. She has a very similar, and equally unappealing, blend of sanctimony, tedium and androgyny to May. Fight fire with fire.
    How likely is she to keep her seat?
    She should be safe enough, but you never know.
    Well there was that piece about the Tories piling up support in labour heartlands. Perhaps industrial Yorkshire is about to go rogue
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,149

    ToryJim said:

    https://twitter.com/mr_trubshawe/status/856478119322144768

    Suspect it's photoshopped and fake but you can't tell nowadays

    Spelling Intelligent incorrectly is bad enough, but spelling Corbyn wrong too?
    Onourable?!
    I think 'Nnice' is more egregious.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    Movements around margin of error don't matter and shouldn't be read into, unless you're Mike and YouGov's Brexit Right/Wrong tracker moves a bit towards 'Wrong', in which case it merits a thread header with a tiny disclaimer.

    A long-term trend would be worth commenting on. The remarkable and interesting thing with this tracker is just how static public opinion is.
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    ToryJim said:

    https://twitter.com/mr_trubshawe/status/856478119322144768

    Suspect it's photoshopped and fake but you can't tell nowadays

    Spelling Intelligent incorrectly is bad enough, but spelling Corbyn wrong too?
    Onourable?!
    Well at least it has a "u" in it!
  • marke09marke09 Posts: 926
    Confirmed by BBC Cymru; Leanne Wood will NOT stand in the Rhondda
  • 32%.

    I AM NOT ALONE IN THE TORY PARTY
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,198
    Pulpstar said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Yvette back as fav on BF for next leader.

    I think this is actually a good call if only they could pry Corbyn's palsied talons off the levers of power. She has a very similar, and equally unappealing, blend of sanctimony, tedium and androgyny to May. Fight fire with fire.
    How likely is she to keep her seat?
    She should be safe enough, but you never know.
    I just had a look at the 2015 result. It would take all the UKIP votes moving to Tory AND her own vote to fall for her to lose. If she isn't safe there wont be a PLP of any significance to be leader of.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,299
    Daisy Benson Yeovil story first up on BBC Points West - BBC journalist decision absolutely bizarre.

    Nominations must be in by May 11th.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411
    edited April 2017

    32%.

    I AM NOT ALONE IN THE TORY PARTY

    What is 32% ?

    Tories on 32% amongst remainers ?
    Or 32% of the Tory vote is remainers ?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited April 2017
    Interesting thought. If a Blue surge leaves a great number of left centre illuminati out of a seat might that be the catalyst to form a new centre left party and leave Corbyn and Co to their own devices?
    I mean rather than a PLP split, a new party of the dispossessed
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,556

    Dura_Ace said:

    Yvette back as fav on BF for next leader.

    I think this is actually a good call if only they could pry Corbyn's palsied talons off the levers of power. She has a very similar, and equally unappealing, blend of sanctimony, tedium and androgyny to May. Fight fire with fire.
    How likely is she to keep her seat?
    If she loses it, Labour'd be down near 100.

    She has a 15k+ majority and although it is a northern, working-class, Brexity seat (all of which point to a larger-than-average swing), it'd still take a net 17% swing for Con to take it from third.

    I don't think she has any great local following (it's one which neighbours my Association's constituencies) but I don't think she's as big a negative as, say, Mary Creagh is.
  • Pulpstar said:

    32%.

    I AM NOT ALONE IN THE TORY PARTY

    What is 32% ?

    Tories on 32% amongst remainers ?
    Or 32% of the Tory vote is remainers ?
    32% of Remainers were Osborne fanboys?
  • JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    wills66 said:

    I'm not sure I agree that the Conservatives are putting a "huge emphasis" on Brexit, to me they're putting the emphasis on stability and continuity. I suspect that, in the minds of the electorate, Brexit is now just one of those things that's going to happen, like sunshine or rain.

    This is a general election, historically decided on 3 items:

    1. How's the economy doing?
    2. Who do I think should be PM?
    3. Which party has got it's s**t together?

    The large Conservative lead over Labour is based on these factors, not Brexit.

    Agree with this

    We are all leavers now - not really an issue any more to many.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    FPT:

    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 914
    2:38PM
    SirNorfolkPassmore said:
    « hide previous quotes
    NickPalmer said:
    SirNorfolkPassmore said:


    There's actually nothing in it for employed people either, as bank holidays typically count towards holiday entitlement in the small print of the employment contract. Indeed, they are somewhat worse than normal holiday entitlement as you typically have to take the actual day rather than being able to choose.

    What it actually means is losing a day off your summer holiday in Florida in exchange for the opportunity to spend St David's Day (1 March) freezing your nuts off on your allotment (I assume that's what Jez wants).


    Is that actually correct? I've never worked anywhere that counted public holidays against annual leave. The closest they come in my experience is that you may be required to take leave over the Xmas-NY bridge so they can shut the place down. But perhaps my experience in untypical - is there an authoritative link?

    I'm not, by the way, arguing that it's a magical vote-winner, just querying Sir Norfolk's assertion.
    Here's the link-y for you:

    https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/entitlement

    All this says is that employers can count bank holidays as part of statutory leave of course, not that they have to. You can draft a contract as you like so long as it remains legal. In practice, however, most do include bank holidays against statutory leave. Indeed, you've got a generous employer if you've got 28 days (the statutory minimum) PLUS bank holidays.
    My appraisal of it (to be clear I don't think it's going to make a difference overall, just that it's a step vaguely in a correct direction) is assuming they would ensure the extra days are in addition to current leave entitlements. If not then as you say, it would actually be worse than current arrangement.

    I also get the argument that 4 spread out days would be better, and that 4 is too many. But if the aim is to foster a bit of union pride, you gotta work with what you have. Perhaps a more sensible alternative would be 1 additional British day, but hard to find a day that is simultaneously uncontraversial while not being bland or artificial. Magna Carta day perhaps?

    Anyway I have probably attributed too much planning behind this policy to Labour, it's probably just a 1 day news headline as others have said.
  • marke09marke09 Posts: 926
    Labour have pencilled in May 15 for their manifesto launch

    It will present an alternative, he says. It would make the country work for the many not the few.

    It will end the public sector pay cap that disrespects public servants.

    It will end the need for food banks.

    He says the Tories are trying to use Brexit to turn the UK into a low-wage tax haven.

    Labour will put jobs, standards and human rights first in the Brexit talks, he says.
  • Pulpstar said:

    32%.

    I AM NOT ALONE IN THE TORY PARTY

    What is 32% ?

    Tories on 32% amongst remainers ?
    Or 32% of the Tory vote is remainers ?
    32% of 2015 Tory voters think Brexit is bad
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411
    Will London polling be a useful guide for Dagenham and Rainham by the way ?

    I can't help but think it might not be !
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411

    Pulpstar said:

    32%.

    I AM NOT ALONE IN THE TORY PARTY

    What is 32% ?

    Tories on 32% amongst remainers ?
    Or 32% of the Tory vote is remainers ?
    32% of 2015 Tory voters think Brexit is bad
    Right but of those 32% how many are switching to other parties ?

    And what is the flow the other way.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    Pulpstar said:

    32%.

    I AM NOT ALONE IN THE TORY PARTY

    What is 32% ?

    Tories on 32% amongst remainers ?
    Or 32% of the Tory vote is remainers ?
    32% of the 2015 Tory voters think Brexit was the wrong decision. According to Ashcroft 42% of them voted Remain in June.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,768

    Yvette back as fav on BF for next leader.

    But how does she erradicate Corbyn. My advice to labour for this election only is vote conservative and decapitate him
    The best (most effective) way would be if they could persuade the good people of Islington to "take one for the team" whilst voting Labour elsewhere. Pretty sure that this isn't engineerable however...
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,556

    I've been chewing over the weekend's opinion polls and have come to the conclusion that it's going to be a Bang Super Nova Tory landslide.

    Even if you want Labour to win, you know it's never going to happen under Jezz. Theresa seems harmless enough, so just vote Tory to humiliate him and get rid - a clean slate for next time. We have the bizarre paradox whereby voting Tory will actually help Labour (albeit perhaps not in the immediate short term). I can see no flaw in my reasoning.

    What if all of the potential leadership candidates lose their seats?

    We would then be left with Abbott and Thornberry as the only potential replacements!
    Then the contest for the selection for the Liverpool Walton by-election (assuming Lab win the Liverpool City Region mayorality), would become quite fierce.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,503
    That second para of the lead contains some weird typos?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411

    I've been chewing over the weekend's opinion polls and have come to the conclusion that it's going to be a Bang Super Nova Tory landslide.

    Even if you want Labour to win, you know it's never going to happen under Jezz. Theresa seems harmless enough, so just vote Tory to humiliate him and get rid - a clean slate for next time. We have the bizarre paradox whereby voting Tory will actually help Labour (albeit perhaps not in the immediate short term). I can see no flaw in my reasoning.

    What if all of the potential leadership candidates lose their seats?

    We would then be left with Abbott and Thornberry as the only potential replacements!
    Then the contest for the selection for the Liverpool Walton by-election (assuming Lab win the Liverpool City Region mayorality), would become quite fierce.
    I have £300 on Rotheram to win that. I think the Labour vote in Merseyside is probably holding up better than elsewhere though - I mean not even Rod Crosby is a Conservative !
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2017
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411
    edited April 2017
    AndyJS said:
    If you've bet on any of his "tips", look away now.

    Bad news for Norman:
    'I’d say Norman Lamb was vulnerable, but he’s still incredibly popular and respected. His personal vote will carry him through.'

    Kiss of death for Clive:

    Sitting MP: Clive Lewis
    Prediction: Labour hold

    If you've piled on the Tory Scottish borders, look away now...
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,556
    Pulpstar said:

    32%.

    I AM NOT ALONE IN THE TORY PARTY

    What is 32% ?

    Tories on 32% amongst remainers ?
    Or 32% of the Tory vote is remainers ?
    The latter.

    From the most recent YouGov (would have used ICM but neither recent poll has tables up yet), the Remain vote splits:

    Lab 36
    Con 27
    LD 23
    UKIP 0

    The Leave vote is

    Con 70
    Lab 12
    UKIP 10
    LD 2
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,866

    ToryJim said:

    https://twitter.com/mr_trubshawe/status/856478119322144768

    Suspect it's photoshopped and fake but you can't tell nowadays

    Spelling Intelligent incorrectly is bad enough, but spelling Corbyn wrong too?
    Onourable?!
    I let them off that as they'd need an 'O', but I just didn't see 'Nnice'.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411

    Pulpstar said:

    32%.

    I AM NOT ALONE IN THE TORY PARTY

    What is 32% ?

    Tories on 32% amongst remainers ?
    Or 32% of the Tory vote is remainers ?
    The latter.

    From the most recent YouGov (would have used ICM but neither recent poll has tables up yet), the Remain vote splits:

    Lab 36
    Con 27
    LD 23
    UKIP 0

    The Leave vote is

    Con 70
    Lab 12
    UKIP 10
    LD 2
    Oh wow Thanks
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    ToryJim said:

    https://twitter.com/mr_trubshawe/status/856478119322144768

    Suspect it's photoshopped and fake but you can't tell nowadays

    Spelling Intelligent incorrectly is bad enough, but spelling Corbyn wrong too?
    Onourable?!
    Well at least it has a "u" in it!
    Also spells Nice wrong if you think about it ...
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Typos in 2nd para fixed. Problem with going with an earlier draft.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Anyone got datatables for the super explosive Scottish Panelbase yet?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    32%.

    I AM NOT ALONE IN THE TORY PARTY

    What is 32% ?

    Tories on 32% amongst remainers ?
    Or 32% of the Tory vote is remainers ?
    The latter.

    From the most recent YouGov (would have used ICM but neither recent poll has tables up yet), the Remain vote splits:

    Lab 36
    Con 27
    LD 23
    UKIP 0

    The Leave vote is

    Con 70
    Lab 12
    UKIP 10
    LD 2
    Oh wow Thanks
    CON 421
    LAB 141
    L DEM 11
    UKIP 0
    GREEN 1
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411

    Typos in 2nd para fixed. Problem with going with an earlier draft.

    Burnley looks fascinating. I have it as a 3 way mega marginal.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,997
    FPT SimonStCare noted, apropos of Communisat support for Labour 'An interesting factoid Mr OKC, cheers.” and went on "If it’s not too rude, how many GE’s have you seen?”

    I can recall 1945, and my mother telling her sister that my father, who still away in the RAF, wanted her to vote for Ray Gunter, the local Labour candidate, and she didn’t want to! So everything since then. Done everything; leafletter, canvasser, knocker-up, counting agent, Agent, and of course every-time voter Everything except actually being a candidate!
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Lennon said:

    Yvette back as fav on BF for next leader.

    But how does she erradicate Corbyn. My advice to labour for this election only is vote conservative and decapitate him
    The best (most effective) way would be if they could persuade the good people of Islington to "take one for the team" whilst voting Labour elsewhere. Pretty sure that this isn't engineerable however...
    YouGov back in March found that only 20% of Labour members would want Corbyn to stay on following a general election defeat. He will try and hang on anyway but in the inevitable leadership contest that will follow a defeat he will have his credibility shot and will be voted out.

    Had YouGov asked the same question in terms of whether Corbyn should stay following the biggest general election defeat in the party's history (well below the 1931 vote share) then that 20% would be down to 15% or 10%.

    I cannot see Corbyn remaining leader beyond the next couple of months. That provides a ray of light at the end of a very dark tunnel.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Must remember that this is a first General Election for ICM online. At GE2015 its voting intention poll s were by phone.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Also in the Yougov:

    No to a second 'deal' referendum - 61%
    Immigration/autonomy prioritised over single market/some eu jurisdiction - 54%

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    It's possible the Tory vote could go down in some Remain areas like Oxfordshire and SW London at the same time as going up by around 10% in places like Mansfield and NE Derbyshire.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,442

    Must remember that this is a first General Election for ICM online. At GE2015 its voting intention poll s were by phone.

    Are ICM going to do any phone polls? I think the answer is "no"?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Pulpstar said:

    Typos in 2nd para fixed. Problem with going with an earlier draft.

    Burnley looks fascinating. I have it as a 3 way mega marginal.
    Indeed like several ex LD seats that were won by LAB at GE2015. I've no special information about it.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    FPT SimonStCare noted, apropos of Communisat support for Labour 'An interesting factoid Mr OKC, cheers.” and went on "If it’s not too rude, how many GE’s have you seen?”

    I can recall 1945, and my mother telling her sister that my father, who still away in the RAF, wanted her to vote for Ray Gunter, the local Labour candidate, and she didn’t want to! So everything since then. Done everything; leafletter, canvasser, knocker-up, counting agent, Agent, and of course every-time voter Everything except actually being a candidate!

    Ray Gunter, there is a name to conjure with. It is probably advancing age but the Labour politicians of old seem like giants compared to today's crop.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411
    edited April 2017
    AndyJS said:

    It's possible the Tory vote could go down in some Remain areas like Oxfordshire and SW London at the same time as going up by around 10% in places like Mansfield and NE Derbyshire.

    Very.

    I have the following bounds for the Tory vote to change thus far

    +2.86 Hornsey
    +18.51 Boston Skegness.

    But I have UNS split by leave/remain.

    I might put together a regional calculator - if the Tories are down in London, that is great news for their chances in Dagenham ;)
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    Pulpstar said:

    32%.

    I AM NOT ALONE IN THE TORY PARTY

    What is 32% ?

    Tories on 32% amongst remainers ?
    Or 32% of the Tory vote is remainers ?
    The latter.

    From the most recent YouGov (would have used ICM but neither recent poll has tables up yet), the Remain vote splits:

    Lab 36
    Con 27
    LD 23
    UKIP 0

    The Leave vote is

    Con 70
    Lab 12
    UKIP 10
    LD 2
    Those figures raise some question marks over how well the Lib Dems will do in some of the West Country marginal seats, particularly in Cornwall and Devon.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Scott_P said:
    That's a nonsense article because a lot of those 26 won't be around.

    Also, you could argue that losing heavily makes it harder for the Corbynites because the MEPs will be a higher proportion and he got no support at all from that quarter.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    A whole two-point swing in nearly nine months.

    Move on, Mr Smithson - you lost.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Doesn't Rotherham have time to stand down before nominations close?
    If elected next Thursday, he can tell Labour that he stands down on Friday. Applications open immediately and close on Sunday.
    NEC select candidate on Monday/Thursday 9th. Nominations close on Thursday 11th IIRC



    Then the contest for the selection for the Liverpool Walton by-election (assuming Lab win the Liverpool City Region mayorality), would become quite fierce.

  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2017
    Burnham has written to the General Secretary to make them know he wants Joanne Platt as the new Labour candidate in Leigh

    www.burnhamformayor.co.uk/parliamentary_candidate_for_leigh


  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Pulpstar said:

    Typos in 2nd para fixed. Problem with going with an earlier draft.

    Burnley looks fascinating. I have it as a 3 way mega marginal.
    What's the third party apart from Lab and LD?
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    FPT SimonStCare noted, apropos of Communisat support for Labour 'An interesting factoid Mr OKC, cheers.” and went on "If it’s not too rude, how many GE’s have you seen?”

    I can recall 1945, and my mother telling her sister that my father, who still away in the RAF, wanted her to vote for Ray Gunter, the local Labour candidate, and she didn’t want to! So everything since then. Done everything; leafletter, canvasser, knocker-up, counting agent, Agent, and of course every-time voter Everything except actually being a candidate!

    Fascinating Mr OKC, and many, many thanks for your reply. :lol:
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    A whole two-point swing in nearly nine months.

    Move on, Mr Smithson - you lost.

    A 0% Swing from March 21 to April 21
This discussion has been closed.