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You can't compare them. Ed's problem was his bizarre judgement from which everything else followed. David's always been sound but more important he is articulate which Ed never was.DecrepitJohnL said:
Which of the Tory attacks on Ed Miliband would not have been targeted at David? Looks a bit wierd; talks in wonkish jargon; father joined the navy to ... well, let's not go there today of all days. The only difference would be to swap a banana for a bacon sandwich.Roger said:Just listening to David Milliband on Radio4. Makes you want to cry. He's everything Corbyn isn't. Talented articulate sincere and above all sounds like he cares.
Ed should take himself out and shoot himself.
He looks and sounds like a modern leader.0 -
Rancour = wancor = MarquandStark_Dawning said:
I've always been suspicious of:JohnLoony said:
That quotation is, of course, fictitious; Skinner never said any such thing. Similar quotes have been attributed to various different politicians in various countries for many decades.CarlottaVance said:
He should have learned from the Beast of Bolsover:Yorkcity said:Nigel Farage in a speech to EU parliament calls them the Mafia.Italian PM complains changes it to gangsters.
'Half the Tory members are crooks'
ORDER
I apologise Mr Speaker. Half the Tory members are not crooks
Roy Jenkins: I leave this party without rancour.
Skinner: I thought you were taking Marquand with you.
Skinner's biting retort, Jenkins' speech defect - all seems a bit to good to be true.
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A court case would have been interesting as a history lesson.Carolus_Rex said:
True enough. Livingstone might as well be saying "go on, I dare you, expel me" as he knows they daren't. More to the point, so does everyone else.CarlottaVance said:
"Prosecution: I call Timothy Snyder to give evidence on the holocaust."0 -
Snyder, in new book on tyranny: "to abandon facts is to abandon freedom"0
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SCENE: BMW Boardroom, Munich. Day.
"Don't we want to sell lots of cars in the UK after Brexit?"
"Sure, but which plant do we want to build them in..."
@SkyNewsBreak: The Unite union has announced workers at car company BMW are to stage a series of eight 24-hour strikes in a dispute over pensions0 -
No, I read the article. I mean all those words to say not much at all.Beverley_C said:
The clue is in the title....TOPPING said:
Can I be the first PB iconoclast to say that I don't rate Hannan too highly (he is of course competent and articulate) and that article does nothing to make me revise my opinion.Beverley_C said:
Good piece. Daniel Hannan has one worth reading as wellwilliamglenn said:Chris Deerin: England has gone mad
https://capx.co/england-has-gone-mad/
https://capx.co/brexit-is-happening-so-lets-all-cheer-up-about-it/
What is he saying?0 -
There were two good candidates, one called Ed and one called Miliband. Sadly, they elected Ed Miliband.Roger said:Just listening to David Milliband on Radio4. Makes you want to cry. He's everything Corbyn isn't. Talented articulate sincere and above all sounds like he cares.
Ed should take himself out and shoot himself.0 -
The problems in the Labour party must be grave indeed if you think any Miliband can provide the solution.Roger said:Just listening to David Milliband on Radio4. Makes you want to cry. He's everything Corbyn isn't. Talented articulate sincere and above all sounds like he cares.
Ed should take himself out and shoot himself.0 -
That sounds fair. Verhofstadht just wants the Project to continue, he'll do what he can to ensure that - including a good deal with the British if that's what's necessary.Casino_Royale said:
I think Verhofstadht is an ideologue.Pulpstar said:
Tusk and Verhofstadt seem like reaasonable men, Junker is an old lush and I have no idea who the other EU president is.GIN1138 said:Reading reports from EU Parliament debate it actually seems that Barnier and Verhofstadt are reasonably sensible but if we do get a deal it may be when it comes before the EU Parliament that we might struggle as many of them seem to be pretty irrational lol!
I think Tusk is the sort of man UK Conservatives would get on fairly well with in any other role.
Tusk is the man we should be talking to, he's the pragmatist Conservative among the mayhem.
Tusk +3 meeting May +3 every month or two for the next year will most likely get the deal 99% done. That's what we should all be hoping for.0 -
Ironic that at a time when Israel builds it's first settlement in the West Bank for 25 years thus deliberately derailing any vestige of what could have been a Palestinian State we should be obsessing about Ken Livingstone's clumsy (and foolish) statement on some of the more unpleasant aspects of Zionism.0
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playschool thenOldKingCole said:
It’s the Easter break. Most places.malcolmg said:
I see as ever you are clueless and have nothing to say. Time for school little boy.SquareRoot said:malcolmg said:
Good old Toom Tabard, never short of bile and hatred for Scotland. What a saddo.CarlottaVance said:
Scotland too:williamglenn said:Chris Deerin: England has gone mad
https://capx.co/england-has-gone-mad/
“It’s a strange thing, starting to think that your homeland may be a bit dim”.....
The general thrust of the piece was that a nation that had once been the cradle of the Enlightenment was in its modern-day guise much diminished, populated by unhinged, spittle-flecked conspiracy theorists who believed in secret oil fields, MI5 plots and rigged polls; and that its relentless, exhausting constitutional self-obsession squeezed out any debate about public policy that might make an actual difference to people’s lives.
Good old Malcy G, never short of bile and hatred for The UK/England0 -
Labour's 2012 results were good , but the 2013 results were far from impressive for an Opposition party in mid term. Ironically UKIP's 2013 surge helped the Tories hang on to quite a few seats by splitting the Anti-Coalition vote.HYUFD said:The problem for Corbyn is that Ed Miliband had some excellent local election results in 2012 and 2013 making significant gains and beating the Tories in voteshare at both elections and he also frequently led the polls. Given Corbyn' s current polling he is likely to lose seats and voteshare to the Tories
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He may have done slightly better in Lab/Tory fights - and potentially handled the SNP issue better too. But the tory majority was largely down to taking LD seats, and I don't see how that could have been reversed by having David instead of Ed.Tissue_Price said:
Absolutely: the campaign line was "Ed speaks human" for a reason. David Miliband was a worse candidate and a worse politician (he only needed to treat a few more of his fellow MPs with a bit more respect to win). Though I concede he might have made a better leader.DecrepitJohnL said:
Which of the Tory attacks on Ed Miliband would not have been targeted at David? Looks a bit wierd; talks in wonkish jargon; father joined the navy to ... well, let's not go there today of all days. The only difference would be to swap a banana for a bacon sandwich.Roger said:Just listening to David Milliband on Radio4. Makes you want to cry. He's everything Corbyn isn't. Talented articulate sincere and above all sounds like he cares.
Ed should take himself out and shoot himself.0 -
They run a £23bn surplus on food and non-alcoholic drinks with us.Sandpit said:
That sounds fair. Verhofstadht just wants the Project to continue, he'll do what he can to ensure that, including a good deal with the British if that's what's necessary.Casino_Royale said:
I think Verhofstadht is an ideologue.Pulpstar said:
Tusk and Verhofstadt seem like reaasonable men, Junker is an old lush and I have no idea who the other EU president is.GIN1138 said:Reading reports from EU Parliament debate it actually seems that Barnier and Verhofstadt are reasonably sensible but if we do get a deal it may be when it comes before the EU Parliament that we might struggle as many of them seem to be pretty irrational lol!
I think Tusk is the sort of man UK Conservatives would get on fairly well with in any other role.
Tusk is the man we should be talking to, he's the pragmatist Conservative among the mayhem.
Tusk +3 meeting May +3 every month or two for the next year will most likely get the deal 99% done.
Is it any wonder they have decided they want tariff free trade and for us to continue to have their cake and eat it?
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More like he was channelling me ScottScott_P said:
Malcolm is channeling Alex Massie in yesterday's TimesJackW said:You're being a wee bit naughty Malcolm ..
I think that avatar is of Margaret Rutherford as Professor Hatton-Jones in "Passport to Pimlico". Malcolm is making a subtle reference to his belief that England is a vassal state of Scotland and when England leaves the EU the newly formed Scottish/Burgundian nation will have to bail out the impoverished English with food parcels of haggis and Irn Bru.0 -
In any normal world, a party Deputy Leader who issued a public statement that the party's actions 'shame us all' would conclude his statement by announcing his immediate resignation.0
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I think I can understand the reasons for this sudden nostalgia over David Miliband, but the are wholly misplaced. In government as a minister he was useless (remember his failures as Foreign Sec, for example), his appeal to the general public was minimal (that banana photo) and, most importantly of all, he showed in his dithering over replacing Brown a complete lack of moral fibre. In short he has much leadership ability as a snake has got hips. In fact I'd go far to argue that a good part of the reason why Labour lost the 2010 election was down to this clown.0
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Indeed. I doubt he would have been much better.felix said:
The problems in the Labour party must be grave indeed if you think any Miliband can provide the solution.Roger said:Just listening to David Milliband on Radio4. Makes you want to cry. He's everything Corbyn isn't. Talented articulate sincere and above all sounds like he cares.
Ed should take himself out and shoot himself.
If, as is increasingly thought, Labour is now incapable of rebuilding a tent big enough to gather in enough votes to win a GE outright, what is the point of prolonging the agony by electing someone halfway more credible, who will then simply spend another five or ten years proving themselves wrong? Better to stick with Corbyn and get to the inevitable collapse/breakup/realignment somewhat earlier.
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LOL, deludedTGOHF said:Pulpstar said:
Gibraltar is an absolute gift for the SNP in diplomatic terms with Spain.TGOHF said:
Eurocrat ignoring result of referendum shock..Theuniondivvie said:Quite the change of tone.
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/849538206383124481
it's another dead cat for the dead cat party. Scotland will tire of dead cats - they tired of the Labour ones quite suddenly.0 -
Given the EU parliament has to vote on it having Verhofstadht involved (as the most committed federalist) is probably necessary.Sandpit said:
That sounds fair. Verhofstadht just wants the Project to continue, he'll do what he can to ensure that - including a good deal with the British if that's what's necessary.Casino_Royale said:
I think Verhofstadht is an ideologue.Pulpstar said:
Tusk and Verhofstadt seem like reaasonable men, Junker is an old lush and I have no idea who the other EU president is.GIN1138 said:Reading reports from EU Parliament debate it actually seems that Barnier and Verhofstadt are reasonably sensible but if we do get a deal it may be when it comes before the EU Parliament that we might struggle as many of them seem to be pretty irrational lol!
I think Tusk is the sort of man UK Conservatives would get on fairly well with in any other role.
Tusk is the man we should be talking to, he's the pragmatist Conservative among the mayhem.
Tusk +3 meeting May +3 every month or two for the next year will most likely get the deal 99% done. That's what we should all be hoping for.0 -
If only Westminster had any thoughts of introducing such policiesTGOHF said:
Luckily a raft of policies to balance the Scottish economy and make it attractive to wealth creators has been rushed through by Holyrood - only a total numpty would raise taxes on high value homes and jobs and create a differential with an open border neighbour...Theuniondivvie said:
I'd imagine the loss of c.100k oil related jobs in 2 years has something to do with it, the equivalent of the UK losing 1m+ jobs.williamglenn said:
Presumably it shows the effect of the declining oil price?tlg86 said:
The difference would look (slightly) more pronounced if Scotland was stripped out of the UK figure.TGOHF said:
Marek Zemanik @marek_zemanik 4m4 minutes ago
More
Here's the key table from the National Statistics this morning. Gap with UK opening at the end of 2014.0 -
I think it showed that people were looking elsewhere for an alternative for that mid-term protest vote.justin124 said:
Labour's 2012 results were good , but the 2013 results were far from impressive for an Opposition party in mid term. Ironically UKIP's 2013 surge helped the Tories hang on to quite a few seats by splitting the Anti-Coalition vote.HYUFD said:The problem for Corbyn is that Ed Miliband had some excellent local election results in 2012 and 2013 making significant gains and beating the Tories in voteshare at both elections and he also frequently led the polls. Given Corbyn' s current polling he is likely to lose seats and voteshare to the Tories
In hindsight, it was very much Good News for the Tories.0 -
Indeed, so why are your side spending the whole day talking to themselves and the world about how racist they are?Roger said:Ironic that at a time when Israel builds it's first settlement in the West Bank for 25 years thus deliberately derailing any vestige of what could have been a Palestinian State we should be talking about Ken Livingstone's clumsy (and foolish) statement on some of the more unpleasant aspects of Zionism.
Now is the time to critisce the Israeli government (Note: very specifically THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT, with no 'Z' words and no 'J' words) for their stance on West Bank settlements.
But no-one from Labour is doing that. Quite the opposite.0 -
Why do you care you don't live here, no concern of yours so concentrate on the woes of England.TGOHF said:
More depressed about the Nationalist government driving the Scottish economy down to be honest.Theuniondivvie said:
A pair of Britnats touching each other inappropriately!TGOHF said:
Yeah but the Spanish are our pals now #winning...MonikerDiCanio said:
The wages of neverendum.TGOHF said:
Marek Zemanik @marek_zemanik 4m4 minutes ago
More
Here's the key table from the National Statistics this morning. Gap with UK opening at the end of 2014.
I hope you can find comfort in each other during this sad time for UKOK-Spain relations.0 -
Labour is not a party. It is a cabal of competing factions that hate each other. The only unifying theme is the Labour name itself. But they all covet that and so stick together in a grim collective of poison, vitriol, recrimination and loathing. The voters are loving it.Richard_Nabavi said:In any normal world, a party Deputy Leader who issued a public statement that the party's actions 'shame us all' would conclude his statement by announcing his immediate resignation.
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The risk is not just that Jewish members leave. But that anyone with any shred of decency also leaves.Sean_F said:
Another question to which the answer is Yes.timmo said:
When a party refuses to properly discipline someone who has disappeared into the wilder shores of nutjob conspiracies/holocaust denial and anti-Semitism, it is not just Jews who are appalled but anyone with a moral compass.
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France: No big changes to the landscape following the debate, I think. Reading the comments in the French press, Macron held his own, none of the main candidates screwed up . Marine Le Pen doesn't seem to have shone particularly, perhaps because of strong competition from the rag-bag of nutjobs who were treated as equals in the debate arrangements. Jean-Luc Mélenchon was good at talking over everyone else, and will have pleased his base. Hamon was dire. Fillon was dull but competent, although his look of amused contempt whenever anyone else was speaking didn't strike me as a good look, even if it was often amply justified by what they were saying.0
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The risk is not just that Jewish members leave. But that anyone with any shred of decency also leaves.Sean_F said:
Another question to which the answer is Yes.timmo said:
When a party refuses to properly discipline someone who has disappeared into the wilder shores of nutjob conspiracies/holocaust denial and anti-Semitism, it is not just Jews who are appalled but anyone with a moral compass.
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Well, Labour could have won 30 and lost none off the Tories. As opposed to 10 and 8.Paristonda said:
He may have done slightly better in Lab/Tory fights - and potentially handled the SNP issue better too. But the tory majority was largely down to taking LD seats, and I don't see how that could have been reversed by having David instead of Ed.Tissue_Price said:
Absolutely: the campaign line was "Ed speaks human" for a reason. David Miliband was a worse candidate and a worse politician (he only needed to treat a few more of his fellow MPs with a bit more respect to win). Though I concede he might have made a better leader.DecrepitJohnL said:
Which of the Tory attacks on Ed Miliband would not have been targeted at David? Looks a bit wierd; talks in wonkish jargon; father joined the navy to ... well, let's not go there today of all days. The only difference would be to swap a banana for a bacon sandwich.Roger said:Just listening to David Milliband on Radio4. Makes you want to cry. He's everything Corbyn isn't. Talented articulate sincere and above all sounds like he cares.
Ed should take himself out and shoot himself.0 -
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For many, David Miliband still represents continuity New Labour, a centre-left party that won elections. He certainly had his weaknesses, but that’s the beauty of nostalgia, its forgotten.HurstLlama said:I think I can understand the reasons for this sudden nostalgia over David Miliband, but the are wholly misplaced. In government as a minister he was useless (remember his failures as Foreign Sec, for example), his appeal to the general public was minimal (that banana photo) and, most importantly of all, he showed in his dithering over replacing Brown a complete lack of moral fibre. In short he has much leadership ability as a snake has got hips. In fact I'd go far to argue that a good part of the reason why Labour lost the 2010 election was down to this clown.
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Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.0
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But he probably expects Corbyn to be gone by the election. Moreover , if the Boundary Changes are approved his position will be greatly strengthened.Pulpstar said:@David_Herdson Wes should think carefully about how he may go about best securing a second stint in Ilford North. Running as an independent might well be better than using the Labour badge, although the Tory score will probably be too high whatever he does.
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As someone suggested here earlier, the idea that we will do any deal on trade that doesn't include a single market in services as well as goods, is very unlikely. WTO Terms on the goods that we import from the EU aren't onerous - except for possibly the 10% tax on cars that would massively favour British-built cars in their home market.chestnut said:
They run a £23bn surplus on food and non-alcoholic drinks with us.Sandpit said:
That sounds fair. Verhofstadht just wants the Project to continue, he'll do what he can to ensure that, including a good deal with the British if that's what's necessary.Casino_Royale said:
I think Verhofstadht is an ideologue.Pulpstar said:
Tusk and Verhofstadt seem like reaasonable men, Junker is an old lush and I have no idea who the other EU president is.GIN1138 said:Reading reports from EU Parliament debate it actually seems that Barnier and Verhofstadt are reasonably sensible but if we do get a deal it may be when it comes before the EU Parliament that we might struggle as many of them seem to be pretty irrational lol!
I think Tusk is the sort of man UK Conservatives would get on fairly well with in any other role.
Tusk is the man we should be talking to, he's the pragmatist Conservative among the mayhem.
Tusk +3 meeting May +3 every month or two for the next year will most likely get the deal 99% done.
Is it any wonder they have decided they want tariff free trade and for us to continue to have their cake and eat it?
We'd also be free to help a bunch of African countries by replacing aid with trade in food, Brexit could go a long way to alleviating third world poverty.
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A difficult but necessary step. Well done. I hope you get your party back one day. Failing that, a party.SouthamObserver said:Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
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March was the best month to date for UK car registrations, according to the car industry trade body.
The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) said 562,337 new cars were registered in March, up 8.4% on the same month last year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-395005760 -
Apologies if this has already been mentioned this morning but I have only just seen the Services PMI for March - 55, up from 53.3. The UK economy seems to be rocking along quite nicely despite the "uncertainty".0
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The Labour Party disciplinary committee should have found that Livingstone was historically accurate but warned him that the way he said it was open to misinterpretation by people who don't understand the difference between Zionist and Jew.
They should have had the gumption to find him innocent but warned him in future to take proper care in his explanations were he ever to touch on the topic again.
As it is they have decided on a cowardly middle road.0 -
Commiserations. That must have been a painful decision.SouthamObserver said:Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
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I am sorry for you. You are an example of a decent Labour person and it is a real shame that the state of your party has brought things to such a pass.SouthamObserver said:Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
I hope that one day there will be a decent social democratic party for you and one that any of us could vote for.
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Funny it is only the ones that could not hack it in Scotland and had to emigrate that spend all their time whinging about Scotland. Why don't they just stick to sucking up to their new countrymen and whine about how great it is for immigrants.TGOHF said:
Luckily a raft of policies to balance the Scottish economy and make it attractive to wealth creators has been rushed through by Holyrood - only a total numpty would raise taxes on high value homes and jobs and create a differential with an open border neighbour...Theuniondivvie said:
I'd imagine the loss of c.100k oil related jobs in 2 years has something to do with it, the equivalent of the UK losing 1m+ jobs.williamglenn said:
Presumably it shows the effect of the declining oil price?tlg86 said:
The difference would look (slightly) more pronounced if Scotland was stripped out of the UK figure.TGOHF said:
Marek Zemanik @marek_zemanik 4m4 minutes ago
More
Here's the key table from the National Statistics this morning. Gap with UK opening at the end of 2014.0 -
F1: ha. Just wrote a long ramble about early bets, and was going to close with a tip, but then I checked the weather forecast. May well rain Sunday, so backing No Safety Car at 2.2 could look quite silly.0
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Wow sorry to hear that and well done.SouthamObserver said:Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
I wonder what we will think of it all in 10, 20, 30 years time.
I can definitely say I hope the Labour Party comes to its senses and that this will turn out to be a blip in its fortunes. (Of course I don't want them to become *too* successful.... ) 0 -
I'm not sure all of his pronouncements were historically accurate though. Mixing in a few unnecessarily provocative truths with half-truths and misrepresentations are not grounds for acquittal.David_Evershed said:The Labour Party disciplinary committee should have found that Livingstone was historically accurate but warned him that the way he said it was open to misinterpretation by people who don't understand the difference between Zionist and Jew.
They should have had the gumption to find him innocent but warned him in future to take proper care in his explanations were he ever to touch on the topic again.
As it is they have decided on a cowardly middle road.0 -
I think if he were an appointee to a Shadow Cabinet post, rather than an elected, unsackable Deputy Leader trying to manouver the party to a different place, then a resignation would already have happened on any one of several occasions.Richard_Nabavi said:In any normal world, a party Deputy Leader who issued a public statement that the party's actions 'shame us all' would conclude his statement by announcing his immediate resignation.
HIs current role is likely to be, by quite a long margin, the best fit for his particular skills that he will have in his entire political career.0 -
Good on you, Sir!SouthamObserver said:Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
Hopefully a sensible centre left party that aspires to government may emerge from the wreckage of Corbyn's Labour.
You made the right decision.0 -
Mr. Observer, it's a shame it's come to that, but I quite understand your decision.
Corbyn's more the enemy of the left than the right.0 -
I think the biggest change to the landscape will be seen in polls by the weekend. Melenchon came out on top in the Elabe poll following the debate as the candidate who performed best. He came second by only one point when the question was asked about who had the best policies.Richard_Nabavi said:France: No big changes to the landscape following the debate, I think. Reading the comments in the French press, Macron held his own, none of the main candidates screwed up . Marine Le Pen doesn't seem to have shone particularly, perhaps because of strong competition from the rag-bag of nutjobs who were treated as equals in the debate arrangements. Jean-Luc Mélenchon was good at talking over everyone else, and will have pleased his base. Hamon was dire. Fillon was dull but competent, although his look of amused contempt whenever anyone else was speaking didn't strike me as a good look, even if it was often amply justified by what they were saying.
Melenchon is the only one who has momentum, the rest are fairly stagnant in the voting intention polls. While some have said that he has already squeezed the Hamon vote as much as he is likely to, there are a very large percentage of the electorate, whose votes are up for grabs, who are undecided and, that being the case, last night's tv debate will have been a good opportunity for them to make up their minds. Therefore, it is likely that Melenchon's success last night will be translated into a better polling performance over the next few days.0 -
Accusations of treachery are the last refuge of an embattled nationalist. 'Twas ever thus.malcolmg said:
Funny it is only the ones that could not hack it in Scotland and had to emigrate that spend all their time whinging about Scotland. Why don't they just stick to sucking up to their new countrymen and whine about how great it is for immigrants.TGOHF said:
Luckily a raft of policies to balance the Scottish economy and make it attractive to wealth creators has been rushed through by Holyrood - only a total numpty would raise taxes on high value homes and jobs and create a differential with an open border neighbour...Theuniondivvie said:
I'd imagine the loss of c.100k oil related jobs in 2 years has something to do with it, the equivalent of the UK losing 1m+ jobs.williamglenn said:
Presumably it shows the effect of the declining oil price?tlg86 said:
The difference would look (slightly) more pronounced if Scotland was stripped out of the UK figure.TGOHF said:
Marek Zemanik @marek_zemanik 4m4 minutes ago
More
Here's the key table from the National Statistics this morning. Gap with UK opening at the end of 2014.0 -
Too many whinging easily upset people nowadays, it is pretty pathetic. What he said was a bit stupid but it harmed no-one and any sensible person would just laugh at him as a silly old man. He is entitled to his opinion , [people can challenge it or ignore it but he is entitled to have it. Far too many "Outraged of Tunbridge Wells" about.Cyclefree said:
The risk is not just that Jewish members leave. But that anyone with any shred of decency also leaves.Sean_F said:
Another question to which the answer is Yes.timmo said:
When a party refuses to properly discipline someone who has disappeared into the wilder shores of nutjob conspiracies/holocaust denial and anti-Semitism, it is not just Jews who are appalled but anyone with a moral compass.0 -
Bit desperate today Toom.CarlottaVance said:0 -
SouthamObserver said:
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
I had you down as a Lib Dem Mr Observer.0 -
Mr. Pit, the 10% tariff on cars has a trivial effect when it comes to buying cars from Japan and Asia (I paid it for my Honda without even thinking about it). I would expect the same to apply to people who want to buy Mercedes and BMWs. There maybe a few more Jaguars sold but that is a good thing and anyway the numbers are likely to be trivial.Sandpit said:
As someone suggested here earlier, the idea that we will do any deal on trade that doesn't include a single market in services as well as goods, is very unlikely. WTO Terms on the goods that we import from the EU aren't onerous - except for possibly the 10% tax on cars that would massively favour British-built cars in their home market.chestnut said:
They run a £23bn surplus on food and non-alcoholic drinks with us.Sandpit said:
That sounds fair. Verhofstadht just wants the Project to continue, he'll do what he can to ensure that, including a good deal with the British if that's what's necessary.Casino_Royale said:
I think Verhofstadht is an ideologue.Pulpstar said:
Tusk and Verhofstadt seem like reaasonable men, Junker is an old lush and I have no idea who the other EU president is.GIN1138 said:Reading reports from EU Parliament debate it actually seems that Barnier and Verhofstadt are reasonably sensible but if we do get a deal it may be when it comes before the EU Parliament that we might struggle as many of them seem to be pretty irrational lol!
I think Tusk is the sort of man UK Conservatives would get on fairly well with in any other role.
Tusk is the man we should be talking to, he's the pragmatist Conservative among the mayhem.
Tusk +3 meeting May +3 every month or two for the next year will most likely get the deal 99% done.
Is it any wonder they have decided they want tariff free trade and for us to continue to have their cake and eat it?
We'd also be free to help a bunch of African countries by replacing aid with trade in food, Brexit could go a long way to alleviating third world poverty.
Of course, that is if the UK decide to levy the tariff. We would not be obliged to and there are good arguments that the UK should unilaterally remove all tariffs on any goods and services from anywhere.0 -
Some serious rewriting of history...
Livingstone ran London so well. Now he’s trashed his reputation
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/04/ken-livingstone-london-mayor-reputation-huge-blow
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They weren't - as reputable historians have pointed out. They were also IMO malicious, certainly in their effect (if not - let's be charitable - in their intent, though others may disagree). What on earth does anyone think the effect of constantly equating Israel + Zionism + Hitler will be? It creates an impression that Israel and Jews are somehow as bad as Hitler and the Nazis, a claim as untrue as it is repellent and offensive.Anorak said:
I'm not sure all of his pronouncements were historically accurate though. Mixing in a few unnecessarily provocative truths with half-truths and misrepresentations are not grounds for acquittal.David_Evershed said:The Labour Party disciplinary committee should have found that Livingstone was historically accurate but warned him that the way he said it was open to misinterpretation by people who don't understand the difference between Zionist and Jew.
They should have had the gumption to find him innocent but warned him in future to take proper care in his explanations were he ever to touch on the topic again.
As it is they have decided on a cowardly middle road.
0 -
The car industry doesn't call the UK Treasure Island for nothing.FrancisUrquhart said:March was the best month to date for UK car registrations, according to the car industry trade body.
The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) said 562,337 new cars were registered in March, up 8.4% on the same month last year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39500576
0 -
I left the Labour Party at the end of 1996, but may now follow your example by joining the Jewish Labour Movement. Thanks for the idea!SouthamObserver said:Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
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I think you might need to upgrade your political radarDavid_Evershed said:SouthamObserver said:Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
I had you down as a Lib Dem Mr Observer.
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Very sorry you feel you've had to do that, SO.SouthamObserver said:Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
The Labour Party needs sensible moderate voices, like your own.0 -
That makes me very sad.SouthamObserver said:Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists.
0 -
I'm not sure who will get through to round 2, but I'm getting more and more convinced it won't be Fillon.BudG said:
I think the biggest change to the landscape will be seen in polls by the weekend. Melenchon came out on top in the Elabe poll following the debate as the candidate who performed best. He came second by only one point when the question was asked about who had the best policies.Richard_Nabavi said:France: No big changes to the landscape following the debate, I think. Reading the comments in the French press, Macron held his own, none of the main candidates screwed up . Marine Le Pen doesn't seem to have shone particularly, perhaps because of strong competition from the rag-bag of nutjobs who were treated as equals in the debate arrangements. Jean-Luc Mélenchon was good at talking over everyone else, and will have pleased his base. Hamon was dire. Fillon was dull but competent, although his look of amused contempt whenever anyone else was speaking didn't strike me as a good look, even if it was often amply justified by what they were saying.
Melenchon is the only one who has momentum, the rest are fairly stagnant in the voting intention polls. While some have said that he has already squeezed the Hamon vote as much as he is likely to, there are a very large percentage of the electorate, whose votes are up for grabs, who are undecided and, that being the case, last night's tv debate will have been a good opportunity for them to make up their minds. Therefore, it is likely that Melenchon's success last night will be translated into a better polling performance over the next few days.0 -
Looks like rain on and off for the whole weekend.Morris_Dancer said:F1: ha. Just wrote a long ramble about early bets, and was going to close with a tip, but then I checked the weather forecast. May well rain Sunday, so backing No Safety Car at 2.2 could look quite silly.
Random thought, back the better drivers (Alonso) rather than the better cars.
0 -
Here! Here!Casino_Royale said:
Very sorry you feel you've had to do that, SO.SouthamObserver said:Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
The Labour Party needs sensible moderate voices, like your own.0 -
Gibraltarans get ready to be given to Spain so the UK can get a good Brexit deal. https://twitter.com/undefined/status/8495714707203235840
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Golfs, Polos and C-classes all in the top 10. But dominated by UK made cars.Patrick said:
The car industry doesn't call the UK Treasure Island for nothing.FrancisUrquhart said:March was the best month to date for UK car registrations, according to the car industry trade body.
The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) said 562,337 new cars were registered in March, up 8.4% on the same month last year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39500576
0 -
Good Lord, what do they teach at Cowley Tech?CarlottaVance said:
Here! Here!Casino_Royale said:
Very sorry you feel you've had to do that, SO.SouthamObserver said:Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
The Labour Party needs sensible moderate voices, like your own.
It's hear hear, not here here.0 -
Sadly the vocal minority is turning into the vocal majority. I'm sure they will regard the departure of any moderate/Blairite/RedTory as a victory and a further purification of the party.Casino_Royale said:
Very sorry you feel you've had to do that, SO.SouthamObserver said:Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
The Labour Party needs sensible moderate voices, like your own.0 -
Mr. Eagles, 'much better' and 'at least some' are maximising the benefit and minimising the change.
Also, I'd like to see a breakdown for just Conservative voters.
Mr. Sandpit, the McLaren could conk out and is still very sow.
I'd be looking more at Verstappen if it's wet. Maybe Hulkenberg/Bottas to punch above their weight (although the first two had team mates with car problems last time).0 -
Anti-Semitism harms real people. You only have to see the rise in attacks on Jews in Europe in recent years to see that a claim that spreading hatred about Jews has no consequences is laughable.malcolmg said:
Too many whinging easily upset people nowadays, it is pretty pathetic. What he said was a bit stupid but it harmed no-one and any sensible person would just laugh at him as a silly old man. He is entitled to his opinion , [people can challenge it or ignore it but he is entitled to have it. Far too many "Outraged of Tunbridge Wells" about.Cyclefree said:
The risk is not just that Jewish members leave. But that anyone with any shred of decency also leaves.Sean_F said:
Another question to which the answer is Yes.timmo said:
When a party refuses to properly discipline someone who has disappeared into the wilder shores of nutjob conspiracies/holocaust denial and anti-Semitism, it is not just Jews who are appalled but anyone with a moral compass.
He is entitled to his opinions - as is, say, Nick Griffin or David Irving - but this is not about his right to say offensive stuff.
It's about whether the Labour party is really willing to stand up for and enforce the values it claims to believe in. And the evidence is that it isn't. On the contrary, Labour is proving that its so-called values are so much hot air and that it does not have a real problem with being a comfortable home for people with the sorts of views which would more usually find a congenial home in the BNP and other similar organisations.
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Having pushed for gender balance SLAB only fielding 32% women in May !
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-394891150 -
Demand for new cars is much more related to demand for financial services. Cheap and easy looking personal lease agreements are behind most personal car shopping.Patrick said:
The car industry doesn't call the UK Treasure Island for nothing.FrancisUrquhart said:March was the best month to date for UK car registrations, according to the car industry trade body.
The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) said 562,337 new cars were registered in March, up 8.4% on the same month last year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-395005760 -
It's excellent news, but if you were going to buy a new car then March was definitely the month to do it with the tax changes.Patrick said:
The car industry doesn't call the UK Treasure Island for nothing.FrancisUrquhart said:March was the best month to date for UK car registrations, according to the car industry trade body.
The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) said 562,337 new cars were registered in March, up 8.4% on the same month last year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-395005760 -
I think the baseline is free trade in goods, and tariff-free, provided the whole negotiation doesn't blow up.chestnut said:
They run a £23bn surplus on food and non-alcoholic drinks with us.Sandpit said:
That sounds fair. Verhofstadht just wants the Project to continue, he'll do what he can to ensure that, including a good deal with the British if that's what's necessary.Casino_Royale said:
I think Verhofstadht is an ideologue.Pulpstar said:
Tusk and Verhofstadt seem like reaasonable men, Junker is an old lush and I have no idea who the other EU president is.GIN1138 said:Reading reports from EU Parliament debate it actually seems that Barnier and Verhofstadt are reasonably sensible but if we do get a deal it may be when it comes before the EU Parliament that we might struggle as many of them seem to be pretty irrational lol!
I think Tusk is the sort of man UK Conservatives would get on fairly well with in any other role.
Tusk is the man we should be talking to, he's the pragmatist Conservative among the mayhem.
Tusk +3 meeting May +3 every month or two for the next year will most likely get the deal 99% done.
Is it any wonder they have decided they want tariff free trade and for us to continue to have their cake and eat it?
The hard bit will be the "access to" the single market piece, which will be a trade-off of budgetary contributions, free movement concessions/preferences, in exchange for some recognition of regulatory equivalence *without* formally being a member of the single market.
The first part should be agree in two years with QMV, and to kick in immediately post the agreed transition period.
The latter will be far harder to agree, although a broad framework for it may be.0 -
Leavers want to keep the Rock out of Spanish hands more than remainers I note.TheScreamingEagles said:Gibraltarans get ready to be given to Spain so the UK can get a good Brexit deal. https://twitter.com/undefined/status/849571470720323584
0 -
If the status of Gibraltar was the only thing preventing the UK from getting a much betterMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, 'much better' and 'at least some' are maximising the benefit and minimising the change.
Also, I'd like to see a breakdown for just Conservative voters.
Mr. Sandpit, the McLaren could conk out and is still very sow.
I'd be looking more at Verstappen if it's wet. Maybe Hulkenberg/Bottas to punch above their weight (although the first two had team mates with car problems last time).
Brexit deal, would you support passing at least some sovereignty over the territory to Spain?
2015 Tory voters
Yes 27%
No 49%
I'd be worried if I was from Gibraltar, fewer than half of 2015 Tories would back Gibraltar0 -
SO
You did the right thing. Once a brand is in the toilet it's hard to recover. Bit like Woolworths or Ratners. It's the values and policies you empathise with not really the brand. The brand must die so a better product can be born in its place.
So I think joining the Jewish Labour Movement is ultimately not going to help. The centre left needs to replace its rotting fetid home. Knock it down and build a better one. Joining the JLM is like putting a tent in the garden next to a festering carbuncle.0 -
Yes I think the egregiousness of it is that Ken makes out that there was free will involved on the part of the Jews in Germany and that they identified Hitler as a like-minded soul, someone who shared their love and aspirations for a Jewish homeland, and who was, further, "someone they could do business with".
Rather than the fact that the Jews almost certainly realised the threat to them and acted out of desperation, urgency and expediency.
Edit: and that is why Ken's observations are so reprehensible as they denigrate the Jews of Germany, charging them with compliance and collaboration.0 -
I have been keeping Fillon onside, but really his current odds do not justify me doing so. It is just possible he is being underestimated and there are a lot of shy Fillon supporters, but the gap he has to make up is as wide as ever and the days are ticking away.Pulpstar said:
I'm not sure who will get through to round 2, but I'm getting more and more convinced it won't be Fillon.
I think Potou probably hit home with alot of French voters last night when sticking the boot in to Fillon. I particularly like this report this morning:
"In the most dramatic episode of last night’s debate, Mr Poutou said: “Since January, it’s been a goldmine.
“With Fillon, the more you look, the more corruption and cheating you find. He’s a guy who tells you we must tighten our belts and have austerity but who dips into the public coffers.”
As Mr Fillon stood by shaking his head, and pleading with his rival to stop, Mr Poutou turned his fire on Ms Le Pen.
He said: “It’s the same with Le Pen, you dip into the public coffers, if not here then in Europe.”
Mr Poutou was particularly outraged that both right-wing candidates can claim political immunity from prosecution if they are elected president, saying “ordinary workers don’t have immunity” if they find themselves in trouble with the law."
0 -
Mr. Eagles, cheers.0
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Pulpstar said:
It's excellent news, but if you were going to buy a new car then March was definitely the month to do it with the tax changes.Patrick said:
The car industry doesn't call the UK Treasure Island for nothing.FrancisUrquhart said:March was the best month to date for UK car registrations, according to the car industry trade body.
The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) said 562,337 new cars were registered in March, up 8.4% on the same month last year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39500576
For sure, BMW kindly did everything they could to get my new car into the country before the end of March. In the end it arrived on the 30th and the registered it for me while it was still at the port.
Saved me a couple of grand.
0 -
I think the Gibraltarns should start learning the Spanish National anthem now, will come in handy in the next couple of years.Pulpstar said:
Leavers want to keep the Rock out of Spanish hands more than remainers I note.TheScreamingEagles said:Gibraltarans get ready to be given to Spain so the UK can get a good Brexit deal. https://twitter.com/undefined/status/849571470720323584
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I have just joined online. It should also get me a vote in any Leadership election. Thanks again!justin124 said:
I left the Labour Party at the end of 1996, but may now follow your example by joining the Jewish Labour Movement. Thanks for the idea!SouthamObserver said:Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
0 -
You have my sincere sympathy. But you do retain a link in case it gets sorted. Probably a good step.SouthamObserver said:Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
0 -
And me, but the Livingstone whitewash is the final nail in the coffin. How can I possibly share a party with that disgusting, morally bankrupt anti-Semite and all the Jew-baiters that are out in force defending him today? How can I give it money or any of my time to a party that allows him to continue as a member? I just can't. And, to be honest, even though it makes me sad to have done it, it also comes as a huge relief. I can't defend any of what Labour currently seems to stand for and I believe the leadership not only to be utterly incompetent, but also thoroughly nasty. I can understand those who wish to stay to fight to save Labour and I wish them all the luck in the world; they are better men and women than me and will one day, I hope, be hailed as heroes. For me, though, the war is over. Jew-baiting is just a bridge too far.Jonathan said:
That makes me very sad.SouthamObserver said:Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists.
0 -
This.SouthamObserver said:
And me, but the Livingstone whitewash is the final nail in the coffin. How can I possibly share a party with that disgusting, morally bankrupt anti-Semite and all the Jew-baiters that are out in force defending him today? How can I give it money or any of my time to a party that allows him to continue as a member? I just can't. And, to be honest, even though it makes me sad to have done it, it also comes as a huge relief. I can't defend any of what Labour currently seems to stand for and I believe the leadership not only to be utterly incompetent, but also thoroughly nasty. I can understand those who wish to stay to fight to save Labour and I wish them all the luck in the world; they are better men and women than me and will one day, I hope, be hailed as heroes. For me, though, the war is over. Jew-baiting is just a bridge too far.Jonathan said:
That makes me very sad.SouthamObserver said:Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists.
0 -
When I returned to the UK in 2015 the long haired general wanted us to buy an X5. I tentatively agreed but persuaded her to visit the Range Rover showroom on the way there. We bought an Evoque! She loves it and agrees it's a better car than the X5. Huzzah! (Doing my bit)ChaosOdin said:Pulpstar said:
It's excellent news, but if you were going to buy a new car then March was definitely the month to do it with the tax changes.Patrick said:
The car industry doesn't call the UK Treasure Island for nothing.FrancisUrquhart said:March was the best month to date for UK car registrations, according to the car industry trade body.
The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) said 562,337 new cars were registered in March, up 8.4% on the same month last year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39500576
For sure, BMW kindly did everything they could to get my new car into the country before the end of March. In the end it arrived on the 30th and the registered it for me while it was still at the port.
Saved me a couple of grand.
0 -
Watson has a unique chance to sort out the mess, before he becomes part of it. He's the one independent of Corbyn who can build a party machine behind him.Pro_Rata said:
I think if he were an appointee to a Shadow Cabinet post, rather than an elected, unsackable Deputy Leader trying to manouver the party to a different place, then a resignation would already have happened on any one of several occasions.Richard_Nabavi said:In any normal world, a party Deputy Leader who issued a public statement that the party's actions 'shame us all' would conclude his statement by announcing his immediate resignation.
HIs current role is likely to be, by quite a long margin, the best fit for his particular skills that he will have in his entire political career.0 -
Well that'll take all of 1 second...TheScreamingEagles said:
I think the Gibraltarns should start learning the Spanish National anthem now, will come in handy in the next couple of years.Pulpstar said:
Leavers want to keep the Rock out of Spanish hands more than remainers I note.TheScreamingEagles said:Gibraltarans get ready to be given to Spain so the UK can get a good Brexit deal. https://twitter.com/undefined/status/849571470720323584
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Which ones are you in TOWIE?Patrick said:
When I returned to the UK in 2015 the long haired general wanted us to buy an X5. I tentatively agreed but persuaded her to visit the Range Rover showroom on the way there. We bought an Evoque! She loves it and agrees it's a better car than the X5. Huzzah! (Doing my bit)ChaosOdin said:Pulpstar said:
It's excellent news, but if you were going to buy a new car then March was definitely the month to do it with the tax changes.Patrick said:
The car industry doesn't call the UK Treasure Island for nothing.FrancisUrquhart said:March was the best month to date for UK car registrations, according to the car industry trade body.
The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) said 562,337 new cars were registered in March, up 8.4% on the same month last year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39500576
For sure, BMW kindly did everything they could to get my new car into the country before the end of March. In the end it arrived on the 30th and the registered it for me while it was still at the port.
Saved me a couple of grand.0 -
Poll finds a minority of people are selfish shock.0
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How much is this jamboree going to cost the public purse ? Salmond's lavish use of taxpayers' money on his US jaunts was eye popping, Sturgeon may be even more extravagant in wasting other people's money.CarlottaVance said:0 -
SouthamObserver said:
And me, but the Livingstone whitewash is the final nail in the coffin. How can I possibly share a party with that disgusting, morally bankrupt anti-Semite and all the Jew-baiters that are out in force defending him today? How can I give it money or any of my time to a party that allows him to continue as a member? I just can't. And, to be honest, even though it makes me sad to have done it, it also comes as a huge relief. I can't defend any of what Labour currently seems to stand for and I believe the leadership not only to be utterly incompetent, but also thoroughly nasty. I can understand those who wish to stay to fight to save Labour and I wish them all the luck in the world; they are better men and women than me and will one day, I hope, be hailed as heroes. For me, though, the war is over. Jew-baiting is just a bridge too far.Jonathan said:
That makes me very sad.SouthamObserver said:Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists.
0 -
Those numbers don't surprise me, but the subjectiveness of the question is reflected in the high numbers of "don't knows".Pulpstar said:
Leavers want to keep the Rock out of Spanish hands more than remainers I note.TheScreamingEagles said:Gibraltarans get ready to be given to Spain so the UK can get a good Brexit deal. https://twitter.com/undefined/status/849571470720323584
The status of Gibraltar wouldn't be the "only" thing preventing a "much better" deal (which would look like what, compared to what? Why would Gibraltar be the dealbreaker for the EU27 on services access?) and what would "some" sovereignty look like?
Also, if you look at the purer question of whether it should remain a self-governing British territory, it has 58% support over joint/sole/devolved Spanish sovereignty that has 19% support across all options.0 -
Even the Spanish are unable to sing their national anthem, so not much to learn for Llanitos (Gibraltarians).TheScreamingEagles said:
I think the Gibraltarns should start learning the Spanish National anthem now, will come in handy in the next couple of years.Pulpstar said:
Leavers want to keep the Rock out of Spanish hands more than remainers I note.TheScreamingEagles said:Gibraltarans get ready to be given to Spain so the UK can get a good Brexit deal. https://twitter.com/undefined/status/849571470720323584
0 -
Handy to be out of the country when this morning's disastrous figures on the Scottish economy came out.MonikerDiCanio said:
How much is this jamboree going to cost the public purse ? Salmond's lavish use of taxpayers' money on his US jaunts was eye popping, Sturgeon may be even more extravagant in wasting other people's money.CarlottaVance said:
Frit.0 -
Thanks to one and all for the comments down-thread regarding my departure from Labour. As someone once sort of said: it's not so much that I am leaving, it's more that it has finally left me. To clarify: I still see myself on the moderate left, I still think Brexit was a crap idea, I still think this is a mediocre, incompetent government and I still think that Corbyn will be gone next year. It's just I don't think there is room for anti-Semites or any other kind of racist in any political party and I cannot be a part of one that does not agree. And that's that.0
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It is an honourable stand to make. I wish you well and hope you find in the Jewish Labour Movement an organisation that can provide a comfortable political home for you and a relationship that develops well beyond simple solidarity.SouthamObserver said:Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
0 -
Surely the Evoque equivalent would be the X3 or new X1? You've cannily persuaded her to spend less as well as supporting local industry - is there a bit of Scots blood in you?Patrick said:
When I returned to the UK in 2015 the long haired general wanted us to buy an X5. I tentatively agreed but persuaded her to visit the Range Rover showroom on the way there. We bought an Evoque! She loves it and agrees it's a better car than the X5. Huzzah! (Doing my bit)ChaosOdin said:Pulpstar said:
It's excellent news, but if you were going to buy a new car then March was definitely the month to do it with the tax changes.Patrick said:
The car industry doesn't call the UK Treasure Island for nothing.FrancisUrquhart said:March was the best month to date for UK car registrations, according to the car industry trade body.
The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) said 562,337 new cars were registered in March, up 8.4% on the same month last year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39500576
For sure, BMW kindly did everything they could to get my new car into the country before the end of March. In the end it arrived on the 30th and the registered it for me while it was still at the port.
Saved me a couple of grand.0
![[Deleted User]](https://wd.vanillicon.com/d2ea526b1b06ed109333f390c7ae956b_100.png)
