Just listening to David Milliband on Radio4. Makes you want to cry. He's everything Corbyn isn't. Talented articulate sincere and above all sounds like he cares.
Ed should take himself out and shoot himself.
Which of the Tory attacks on Ed Miliband would not have been targeted at David? Looks a bit wierd; talks in wonkish jargon; father joined the navy to ... well, let's not go there today of all days. The only difference would be to swap a banana for a bacon sandwich.
You can't compare them. Ed's problem was his bizarre judgement from which everything else followed. David's always been sound but more important he is articulate which Ed never was.
Nigel Farage in a speech to EU parliament calls them the Mafia.Italian PM complains changes it to gangsters.
He should have learned from the Beast of Bolsover:
'Half the Tory members are crooks'
ORDER
I apologise Mr Speaker. Half the Tory members are not crooks
That quotation is, of course, fictitious; Skinner never said any such thing. Similar quotes have been attributed to various different politicians in various countries for many decades.
I've always been suspicious of:
Roy Jenkins: I leave this party without rancour. Skinner: I thought you were taking Marquand with you.
Skinner's biting retort, Jenkins' speech defect - all seems a bit to good to be true.
Can I be the first PB iconoclast to say that I don't rate Hannan too highly (he is of course competent and articulate) and that article does nothing to make me revise my opinion.
What is he saying?
The clue is in the title....
No, I read the article. I mean all those words to say not much at all.
Just listening to David Milliband on Radio4. Makes you want to cry. He's everything Corbyn isn't. Talented articulate sincere and above all sounds like he cares.
Ed should take himself out and shoot himself.
There were two good candidates, one called Ed and one called Miliband. Sadly, they elected Ed Miliband.
Just listening to David Milliband on Radio4. Makes you want to cry. He's everything Corbyn isn't. Talented articulate sincere and above all sounds like he cares.
Ed should take himself out and shoot himself.
The problems in the Labour party must be grave indeed if you think any Miliband can provide the solution.
Reading reports from EU Parliament debate it actually seems that Barnier and Verhofstadt are reasonably sensible but if we do get a deal it may be when it comes before the EU Parliament that we might struggle as many of them seem to be pretty irrational lol!
Tusk and Verhofstadt seem like reaasonable men, Junker is an old lush and I have no idea who the other EU president is.
I think Verhofstadht is an ideologue.
I think Tusk is the sort of man UK Conservatives would get on fairly well with in any other role.
That sounds fair. Verhofstadht just wants the Project to continue, he'll do what he can to ensure that - including a good deal with the British if that's what's necessary.
Tusk is the man we should be talking to, he's the pragmatist Conservative among the mayhem.
Tusk +3 meeting May +3 every month or two for the next year will most likely get the deal 99% done. That's what we should all be hoping for.
Ironic that at a time when Israel builds it's first settlement in the West Bank for 25 years thus deliberately derailing any vestige of what could have been a Palestinian State we should be obsessing about Ken Livingstone's clumsy (and foolish) statement on some of the more unpleasant aspects of Zionism.
“It’s a strange thing, starting to think that your homeland may be a bit dim”.....
The general thrust of the piece was that a nation that had once been the cradle of the Enlightenment was in its modern-day guise much diminished, populated by unhinged, spittle-flecked conspiracy theorists who believed in secret oil fields, MI5 plots and rigged polls; and that its relentless, exhausting constitutional self-obsession squeezed out any debate about public policy that might make an actual difference to people’s lives.
Good old Toom Tabard, never short of bile and hatred for Scotland. What a saddo.
Good old Malcy G, never short of bile and hatred for The UK/England
I see as ever you are clueless and have nothing to say. Time for school little boy.
Just listening to David Milliband on Radio4. Makes you want to cry. He's everything Corbyn isn't. Talented articulate sincere and above all sounds like he cares.
Ed should take himself out and shoot himself.
Which of the Tory attacks on Ed Miliband would not have been targeted at David? Looks a bit wierd; talks in wonkish jargon; father joined the navy to ... well, let's not go there today of all days. The only difference would be to swap a banana for a bacon sandwich.
Absolutely: the campaign line was "Ed speaks human" for a reason. David Miliband was a worse candidate and a worse politician (he only needed to treat a few more of his fellow MPs with a bit more respect to win). Though I concede he might have made a better leader.
He may have done slightly better in Lab/Tory fights - and potentially handled the SNP issue better too. But the tory majority was largely down to taking LD seats, and I don't see how that could have been reversed by having David instead of Ed.
The problem for Corbyn is that Ed Miliband had some excellent local election results in 2012 and 2013 making significant gains and beating the Tories in voteshare at both elections and he also frequently led the polls. Given Corbyn' s current polling he is likely to lose seats and voteshare to the Tories
Labour's 2012 results were good , but the 2013 results were far from impressive for an Opposition party in mid term. Ironically UKIP's 2013 surge helped the Tories hang on to quite a few seats by splitting the Anti-Coalition vote.
Reading reports from EU Parliament debate it actually seems that Barnier and Verhofstadt are reasonably sensible but if we do get a deal it may be when it comes before the EU Parliament that we might struggle as many of them seem to be pretty irrational lol!
Tusk and Verhofstadt seem like reaasonable men, Junker is an old lush and I have no idea who the other EU president is.
I think Verhofstadht is an ideologue.
I think Tusk is the sort of man UK Conservatives would get on fairly well with in any other role.
That sounds fair. Verhofstadht just wants the Project to continue, he'll do what he can to ensure that, including a good deal with the British if that's what's necessary.
Tusk is the man we should be talking to, he's the pragmatist Conservative among the mayhem.
Tusk +3 meeting May +3 every month or two for the next year will most likely get the deal 99% done.
They run a £23bn surplus on food and non-alcoholic drinks with us.
Is it any wonder they have decided they want tariff free trade and for us to continue to have their cake and eat it?
I think that avatar is of Margaret Rutherford as Professor Hatton-Jones in "Passport to Pimlico". Malcolm is making a subtle reference to his belief that England is a vassal state of Scotland and when England leaves the EU the newly formed Scottish/Burgundian nation will have to bail out the impoverished English with food parcels of haggis and Irn Bru.
Malcolm is channeling Alex Massie in yesterday's Times
In any normal world, a party Deputy Leader who issued a public statement that the party's actions 'shame us all' would conclude his statement by announcing his immediate resignation.
I think I can understand the reasons for this sudden nostalgia over David Miliband, but the are wholly misplaced. In government as a minister he was useless (remember his failures as Foreign Sec, for example), his appeal to the general public was minimal (that banana photo) and, most importantly of all, he showed in his dithering over replacing Brown a complete lack of moral fibre. In short he has much leadership ability as a snake has got hips. In fact I'd go far to argue that a good part of the reason why Labour lost the 2010 election was down to this clown.
Just listening to David Milliband on Radio4. Makes you want to cry. He's everything Corbyn isn't. Talented articulate sincere and above all sounds like he cares.
Ed should take himself out and shoot himself.
The problems in the Labour party must be grave indeed if you think any Miliband can provide the solution.
Indeed. I doubt he would have been much better.
If, as is increasingly thought, Labour is now incapable of rebuilding a tent big enough to gather in enough votes to win a GE outright, what is the point of prolonging the agony by electing someone halfway more credible, who will then simply spend another five or ten years proving themselves wrong? Better to stick with Corbyn and get to the inevitable collapse/breakup/realignment somewhat earlier.
Reading reports from EU Parliament debate it actually seems that Barnier and Verhofstadt are reasonably sensible but if we do get a deal it may be when it comes before the EU Parliament that we might struggle as many of them seem to be pretty irrational lol!
Tusk and Verhofstadt seem like reaasonable men, Junker is an old lush and I have no idea who the other EU president is.
I think Verhofstadht is an ideologue.
I think Tusk is the sort of man UK Conservatives would get on fairly well with in any other role.
That sounds fair. Verhofstadht just wants the Project to continue, he'll do what he can to ensure that - including a good deal with the British if that's what's necessary.
Tusk is the man we should be talking to, he's the pragmatist Conservative among the mayhem.
Tusk +3 meeting May +3 every month or two for the next year will most likely get the deal 99% done. That's what we should all be hoping for.
Given the EU parliament has to vote on it having Verhofstadht involved (as the most committed federalist) is probably necessary.
Marek Zemanik @marek_zemanik 4m4 minutes ago More Here's the key table from the National Statistics this morning. Gap with UK opening at the end of 2014.
The difference would look (slightly) more pronounced if Scotland was stripped out of the UK figure.
Presumably it shows the effect of the declining oil price?
I'd imagine the loss of c.100k oil related jobs in 2 years has something to do with it, the equivalent of the UK losing 1m+ jobs.
Luckily a raft of policies to balance the Scottish economy and make it attractive to wealth creators has been rushed through by Holyrood - only a total numpty would raise taxes on high value homes and jobs and create a differential with an open border neighbour...
If only Westminster had any thoughts of introducing such policies
The problem for Corbyn is that Ed Miliband had some excellent local election results in 2012 and 2013 making significant gains and beating the Tories in voteshare at both elections and he also frequently led the polls. Given Corbyn' s current polling he is likely to lose seats and voteshare to the Tories
Labour's 2012 results were good , but the 2013 results were far from impressive for an Opposition party in mid term. Ironically UKIP's 2013 surge helped the Tories hang on to quite a few seats by splitting the Anti-Coalition vote.
I think it showed that people were looking elsewhere for an alternative for that mid-term protest vote.
In hindsight, it was very much Good News for the Tories.
Ironic that at a time when Israel builds it's first settlement in the West Bank for 25 years thus deliberately derailing any vestige of what could have been a Palestinian State we should be talking about Ken Livingstone's clumsy (and foolish) statement on some of the more unpleasant aspects of Zionism.
Indeed, so why are your side spending the whole day talking to themselves and the world about how racist they are?
Now is the time to critisce the Israeli government (Note: very specifically THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT, with no 'Z' words and no 'J' words) for their stance on West Bank settlements.
But no-one from Labour is doing that. Quite the opposite.
Marek Zemanik @marek_zemanik 4m4 minutes ago More Here's the key table from the National Statistics this morning. Gap with UK opening at the end of 2014.
The wages of neverendum.
Yeah but the Spanish are our pals now #winning...
A pair of Britnats touching each other inappropriately! I hope you can find comfort in each other during this sad time for UKOK-Spain relations.
More depressed about the Nationalist government driving the Scottish economy down to be honest.
Why do you care you don't live here, no concern of yours so concentrate on the woes of England.
In any normal world, a party Deputy Leader who issued a public statement that the party's actions 'shame us all' would conclude his statement by announcing his immediate resignation.
Labour is not a party. It is a cabal of competing factions that hate each other. The only unifying theme is the Labour name itself. But they all covet that and so stick together in a grim collective of poison, vitriol, recrimination and loathing. The voters are loving it.
"The Holocaust was massively exaggerated by Zionist leaders."
Does Ken mean Hitler? ... difficult to tell these days !!
Does he really want every Jewish member of the Labour party to leave? That's what it seems like
Another question to which the answer is Yes.
The risk is not just that Jewish members leave. But that anyone with any shred of decency also leaves.
When a party refuses to properly discipline someone who has disappeared into the wilder shores of nutjob conspiracies/holocaust denial and anti-Semitism, it is not just Jews who are appalled but anyone with a moral compass.
France: No big changes to the landscape following the debate, I think. Reading the comments in the French press, Macron held his own, none of the main candidates screwed up . Marine Le Pen doesn't seem to have shone particularly, perhaps because of strong competition from the rag-bag of nutjobs who were treated as equals in the debate arrangements. Jean-Luc Mélenchon was good at talking over everyone else, and will have pleased his base. Hamon was dire. Fillon was dull but competent, although his look of amused contempt whenever anyone else was speaking didn't strike me as a good look, even if it was often amply justified by what they were saying.
"The Holocaust was massively exaggerated by Zionist leaders."
Does Ken mean Hitler? ... difficult to tell these days !!
Does he really want every Jewish member of the Labour party to leave? That's what it seems like
Another question to which the answer is Yes.
The risk is not just that Jewish members leave. But that anyone with any shred of decency also leaves.
When a party refuses to properly discipline someone who has disappeared into the wilder shores of nutjob conspiracies/holocaust denial and anti-Semitism, it is not just Jews who are appalled but anyone with a moral compass.
Just listening to David Milliband on Radio4. Makes you want to cry. He's everything Corbyn isn't. Talented articulate sincere and above all sounds like he cares.
Ed should take himself out and shoot himself.
Which of the Tory attacks on Ed Miliband would not have been targeted at David? Looks a bit wierd; talks in wonkish jargon; father joined the navy to ... well, let's not go there today of all days. The only difference would be to swap a banana for a bacon sandwich.
Absolutely: the campaign line was "Ed speaks human" for a reason. David Miliband was a worse candidate and a worse politician (he only needed to treat a few more of his fellow MPs with a bit more respect to win). Though I concede he might have made a better leader.
He may have done slightly better in Lab/Tory fights - and potentially handled the SNP issue better too. But the tory majority was largely down to taking LD seats, and I don't see how that could have been reversed by having David instead of Ed.
Well, Labour could have won 30 and lost none off the Tories. As opposed to 10 and 8.
I think I can understand the reasons for this sudden nostalgia over David Miliband, but the are wholly misplaced. In government as a minister he was useless (remember his failures as Foreign Sec, for example), his appeal to the general public was minimal (that banana photo) and, most importantly of all, he showed in his dithering over replacing Brown a complete lack of moral fibre. In short he has much leadership ability as a snake has got hips. In fact I'd go far to argue that a good part of the reason why Labour lost the 2010 election was down to this clown.
For many, David Miliband still represents continuity New Labour, a centre-left party that won elections. He certainly had his weaknesses, but that’s the beauty of nostalgia, its forgotten.
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
@David_Herdson Wes should think carefully about how he may go about best securing a second stint in Ilford North. Running as an independent might well be better than using the Labour badge, although the Tory score will probably be too high whatever he does.
But he probably expects Corbyn to be gone by the election. Moreover , if the Boundary Changes are approved his position will be greatly strengthened.
Reading reports from EU Parliament debate it actually seems that Barnier and Verhofstadt are reasonably sensible but if we do get a deal it may be when it comes before the EU Parliament that we might struggle as many of them seem to be pretty irrational lol!
Tusk and Verhofstadt seem like reaasonable men, Junker is an old lush and I have no idea who the other EU president is.
I think Verhofstadht is an ideologue.
I think Tusk is the sort of man UK Conservatives would get on fairly well with in any other role.
That sounds fair. Verhofstadht just wants the Project to continue, he'll do what he can to ensure that, including a good deal with the British if that's what's necessary.
Tusk is the man we should be talking to, he's the pragmatist Conservative among the mayhem.
Tusk +3 meeting May +3 every month or two for the next year will most likely get the deal 99% done.
They run a £23bn surplus on food and non-alcoholic drinks with us.
Is it any wonder they have decided they want tariff free trade and for us to continue to have their cake and eat it?
As someone suggested here earlier, the idea that we will do any deal on trade that doesn't include a single market in services as well as goods, is very unlikely. WTO Terms on the goods that we import from the EU aren't onerous - except for possibly the 10% tax on cars that would massively favour British-built cars in their home market.
We'd also be free to help a bunch of African countries by replacing aid with trade in food, Brexit could go a long way to alleviating third world poverty.
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
A difficult but necessary step. Well done. I hope you get your party back one day. Failing that, a party.
Apologies if this has already been mentioned this morning but I have only just seen the Services PMI for March - 55, up from 53.3. The UK economy seems to be rocking along quite nicely despite the "uncertainty".
The Labour Party disciplinary committee should have found that Livingstone was historically accurate but warned him that the way he said it was open to misinterpretation by people who don't understand the difference between Zionist and Jew.
They should have had the gumption to find him innocent but warned him in future to take proper care in his explanations were he ever to touch on the topic again.
As it is they have decided on a cowardly middle road.
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
Commiserations. That must have been a painful decision.
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
I am sorry for you. You are an example of a decent Labour person and it is a real shame that the state of your party has brought things to such a pass.
I hope that one day there will be a decent social democratic party for you and one that any of us could vote for.
Marek Zemanik @marek_zemanik 4m4 minutes ago More Here's the key table from the National Statistics this morning. Gap with UK opening at the end of 2014.
The difference would look (slightly) more pronounced if Scotland was stripped out of the UK figure.
Presumably it shows the effect of the declining oil price?
I'd imagine the loss of c.100k oil related jobs in 2 years has something to do with it, the equivalent of the UK losing 1m+ jobs.
Luckily a raft of policies to balance the Scottish economy and make it attractive to wealth creators has been rushed through by Holyrood - only a total numpty would raise taxes on high value homes and jobs and create a differential with an open border neighbour...
Funny it is only the ones that could not hack it in Scotland and had to emigrate that spend all their time whinging about Scotland. Why don't they just stick to sucking up to their new countrymen and whine about how great it is for immigrants.
F1: ha. Just wrote a long ramble about early bets, and was going to close with a tip, but then I checked the weather forecast. May well rain Sunday, so backing No Safety Car at 2.2 could look quite silly.
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
Wow sorry to hear that and well done.
I wonder what we will think of it all in 10, 20, 30 years time.
I can definitely say I hope the Labour Party comes to its senses and that this will turn out to be a blip in its fortunes. (Of course I don't want them to become *too* successful.... )
The Labour Party disciplinary committee should have found that Livingstone was historically accurate but warned him that the way he said it was open to misinterpretation by people who don't understand the difference between Zionist and Jew.
They should have had the gumption to find him innocent but warned him in future to take proper care in his explanations were he ever to touch on the topic again.
As it is they have decided on a cowardly middle road.
I'm not sure all of his pronouncements were historically accurate though. Mixing in a few unnecessarily provocative truths with half-truths and misrepresentations are not grounds for acquittal.
In any normal world, a party Deputy Leader who issued a public statement that the party's actions 'shame us all' would conclude his statement by announcing his immediate resignation.
I think if he were an appointee to a Shadow Cabinet post, rather than an elected, unsackable Deputy Leader trying to manouver the party to a different place, then a resignation would already have happened on any one of several occasions.
HIs current role is likely to be, by quite a long margin, the best fit for his particular skills that he will have in his entire political career.
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
Good on you, Sir!
Hopefully a sensible centre left party that aspires to government may emerge from the wreckage of Corbyn's Labour.
France: No big changes to the landscape following the debate, I think. Reading the comments in the French press, Macron held his own, none of the main candidates screwed up . Marine Le Pen doesn't seem to have shone particularly, perhaps because of strong competition from the rag-bag of nutjobs who were treated as equals in the debate arrangements. Jean-Luc Mélenchon was good at talking over everyone else, and will have pleased his base. Hamon was dire. Fillon was dull but competent, although his look of amused contempt whenever anyone else was speaking didn't strike me as a good look, even if it was often amply justified by what they were saying.
I think the biggest change to the landscape will be seen in polls by the weekend. Melenchon came out on top in the Elabe poll following the debate as the candidate who performed best. He came second by only one point when the question was asked about who had the best policies.
Melenchon is the only one who has momentum, the rest are fairly stagnant in the voting intention polls. While some have said that he has already squeezed the Hamon vote as much as he is likely to, there are a very large percentage of the electorate, whose votes are up for grabs, who are undecided and, that being the case, last night's tv debate will have been a good opportunity for them to make up their minds. Therefore, it is likely that Melenchon's success last night will be translated into a better polling performance over the next few days.
Marek Zemanik @marek_zemanik 4m4 minutes ago More Here's the key table from the National Statistics this morning. Gap with UK opening at the end of 2014.
The difference would look (slightly) more pronounced if Scotland was stripped out of the UK figure.
Presumably it shows the effect of the declining oil price?
I'd imagine the loss of c.100k oil related jobs in 2 years has something to do with it, the equivalent of the UK losing 1m+ jobs.
Luckily a raft of policies to balance the Scottish economy and make it attractive to wealth creators has been rushed through by Holyrood - only a total numpty would raise taxes on high value homes and jobs and create a differential with an open border neighbour...
Funny it is only the ones that could not hack it in Scotland and had to emigrate that spend all their time whinging about Scotland. Why don't they just stick to sucking up to their new countrymen and whine about how great it is for immigrants.
Accusations of treachery are the last refuge of an embattled nationalist. 'Twas ever thus.
"The Holocaust was massively exaggerated by Zionist leaders."
Does Ken mean Hitler? ... difficult to tell these days !!
Does he really want every Jewish member of the Labour party to leave? That's what it seems like
Another question to which the answer is Yes.
The risk is not just that Jewish members leave. But that anyone with any shred of decency also leaves.
When a party refuses to properly discipline someone who has disappeared into the wilder shores of nutjob conspiracies/holocaust denial and anti-Semitism, it is not just Jews who are appalled but anyone with a moral compass.
Too many whinging easily upset people nowadays, it is pretty pathetic. What he said was a bit stupid but it harmed no-one and any sensible person would just laugh at him as a silly old man. He is entitled to his opinion , [people can challenge it or ignore it but he is entitled to have it. Far too many "Outraged of Tunbridge Wells" about.
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
Reading reports from EU Parliament debate it actually seems that Barnier and Verhofstadt are reasonably sensible but if we do get a deal it may be when it comes before the EU Parliament that we might struggle as many of them seem to be pretty irrational lol!
Tusk and Verhofstadt seem like reaasonable men, Junker is an old lush and I have no idea who the other EU president is.
I think Verhofstadht is an ideologue.
I think Tusk is the sort of man UK Conservatives would get on fairly well with in any other role.
That sounds fair. Verhofstadht just wants the Project to continue, he'll do what he can to ensure that, including a good deal with the British if that's what's necessary.
Tusk is the man we should be talking to, he's the pragmatist Conservative among the mayhem.
Tusk +3 meeting May +3 every month or two for the next year will most likely get the deal 99% done.
They run a £23bn surplus on food and non-alcoholic drinks with us.
Is it any wonder they have decided they want tariff free trade and for us to continue to have their cake and eat it?
As someone suggested here earlier, the idea that we will do any deal on trade that doesn't include a single market in services as well as goods, is very unlikely. WTO Terms on the goods that we import from the EU aren't onerous - except for possibly the 10% tax on cars that would massively favour British-built cars in their home market.
We'd also be free to help a bunch of African countries by replacing aid with trade in food, Brexit could go a long way to alleviating third world poverty.
Mr. Pit, the 10% tariff on cars has a trivial effect when it comes to buying cars from Japan and Asia (I paid it for my Honda without even thinking about it). I would expect the same to apply to people who want to buy Mercedes and BMWs. There maybe a few more Jaguars sold but that is a good thing and anyway the numbers are likely to be trivial.
Of course, that is if the UK decide to levy the tariff. We would not be obliged to and there are good arguments that the UK should unilaterally remove all tariffs on any goods and services from anywhere.
The Labour Party disciplinary committee should have found that Livingstone was historically accurate but warned him that the way he said it was open to misinterpretation by people who don't understand the difference between Zionist and Jew.
They should have had the gumption to find him innocent but warned him in future to take proper care in his explanations were he ever to touch on the topic again.
As it is they have decided on a cowardly middle road.
I'm not sure all of his pronouncements were historically accurate though. Mixing in a few unnecessarily provocative truths with half-truths and misrepresentations are not grounds for acquittal.
They weren't - as reputable historians have pointed out. They were also IMO malicious, certainly in their effect (if not - let's be charitable - in their intent, though others may disagree). What on earth does anyone think the effect of constantly equating Israel + Zionism + Hitler will be? It creates an impression that Israel and Jews are somehow as bad as Hitler and the Nazis, a claim as untrue as it is repellent and offensive.
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
I left the Labour Party at the end of 1996, but may now follow your example by joining the Jewish Labour Movement. Thanks for the idea!
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
I had you down as a Lib Dem Mr Observer.
I think you might need to upgrade your political radar
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
Very sorry you feel you've had to do that, SO.
The Labour Party needs sensible moderate voices, like your own.
France: No big changes to the landscape following the debate, I think. Reading the comments in the French press, Macron held his own, none of the main candidates screwed up . Marine Le Pen doesn't seem to have shone particularly, perhaps because of strong competition from the rag-bag of nutjobs who were treated as equals in the debate arrangements. Jean-Luc Mélenchon was good at talking over everyone else, and will have pleased his base. Hamon was dire. Fillon was dull but competent, although his look of amused contempt whenever anyone else was speaking didn't strike me as a good look, even if it was often amply justified by what they were saying.
I think the biggest change to the landscape will be seen in polls by the weekend. Melenchon came out on top in the Elabe poll following the debate as the candidate who performed best. He came second by only one point when the question was asked about who had the best policies.
Melenchon is the only one who has momentum, the rest are fairly stagnant in the voting intention polls. While some have said that he has already squeezed the Hamon vote as much as he is likely to, there are a very large percentage of the electorate, whose votes are up for grabs, who are undecided and, that being the case, last night's tv debate will have been a good opportunity for them to make up their minds. Therefore, it is likely that Melenchon's success last night will be translated into a better polling performance over the next few days.
I'm not sure who will get through to round 2, but I'm getting more and more convinced it won't be Fillon.
F1: ha. Just wrote a long ramble about early bets, and was going to close with a tip, but then I checked the weather forecast. May well rain Sunday, so backing No Safety Car at 2.2 could look quite silly.
Looks like rain on and off for the whole weekend.
Random thought, back the better drivers (Alonso) rather than the better cars.
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
Very sorry you feel you've had to do that, SO.
The Labour Party needs sensible moderate voices, like your own.
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
Very sorry you feel you've had to do that, SO.
The Labour Party needs sensible moderate voices, like your own.
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
Very sorry you feel you've had to do that, SO.
The Labour Party needs sensible moderate voices, like your own.
Sadly the vocal minority is turning into the vocal majority. I'm sure they will regard the departure of any moderate/Blairite/RedTory as a victory and a further purification of the party.
Mr. Eagles, 'much better' and 'at least some' are maximising the benefit and minimising the change.
Also, I'd like to see a breakdown for just Conservative voters.
Mr. Sandpit, the McLaren could conk out and is still very sow.
I'd be looking more at Verstappen if it's wet. Maybe Hulkenberg/Bottas to punch above their weight (although the first two had team mates with car problems last time).
"The Holocaust was massively exaggerated by Zionist leaders."
Does Ken mean Hitler? ... difficult to tell these days !!
Does he really want every Jewish member of the Labour party to leave? That's what it seems like
Another question to which the answer is Yes.
The risk is not just that Jewish members leave. But that anyone with any shred of decency also leaves.
When a party refuses to properly discipline someone who has disappeared into the wilder shores of nutjob conspiracies/holocaust denial and anti-Semitism, it is not just Jews who are appalled but anyone with a moral compass.
Too many whinging easily upset people nowadays, it is pretty pathetic. What he said was a bit stupid but it harmed no-one and any sensible person would just laugh at him as a silly old man. He is entitled to his opinion , [people can challenge it or ignore it but he is entitled to have it. Far too many "Outraged of Tunbridge Wells" about.
Anti-Semitism harms real people. You only have to see the rise in attacks on Jews in Europe in recent years to see that a claim that spreading hatred about Jews has no consequences is laughable.
He is entitled to his opinions - as is, say, Nick Griffin or David Irving - but this is not about his right to say offensive stuff.
It's about whether the Labour party is really willing to stand up for and enforce the values it claims to believe in. And the evidence is that it isn't. On the contrary, Labour is proving that its so-called values are so much hot air and that it does not have a real problem with being a comfortable home for people with the sorts of views which would more usually find a congenial home in the BNP and other similar organisations.
The car industry doesn't call the UK Treasure Island for nothing.
Demand for new cars is much more related to demand for financial services. Cheap and easy looking personal lease agreements are behind most personal car shopping.
Reading reports from EU Parliament debate it actually seems that Barnier and Verhofstadt are reasonably sensible but if we do get a deal it may be when it comes before the EU Parliament that we might struggle as many of them seem to be pretty irrational lol!
Tusk and Verhofstadt seem like reaasonable men, Junker is an old lush and I have no idea who the other EU president is.
I think Verhofstadht is an ideologue.
I think Tusk is the sort of man UK Conservatives would get on fairly well with in any other role.
That sounds fair. Verhofstadht just wants the Project to continue, he'll do what he can to ensure that, including a good deal with the British if that's what's necessary.
Tusk is the man we should be talking to, he's the pragmatist Conservative among the mayhem.
Tusk +3 meeting May +3 every month or two for the next year will most likely get the deal 99% done.
They run a £23bn surplus on food and non-alcoholic drinks with us.
Is it any wonder they have decided they want tariff free trade and for us to continue to have their cake and eat it?
I think the baseline is free trade in goods, and tariff-free, provided the whole negotiation doesn't blow up.
The hard bit will be the "access to" the single market piece, which will be a trade-off of budgetary contributions, free movement concessions/preferences, in exchange for some recognition of regulatory equivalence *without* formally being a member of the single market.
The first part should be agree in two years with QMV, and to kick in immediately post the agreed transition period.
The latter will be far harder to agree, although a broad framework for it may be.
Mr. Eagles, 'much better' and 'at least some' are maximising the benefit and minimising the change.
Also, I'd like to see a breakdown for just Conservative voters.
Mr. Sandpit, the McLaren could conk out and is still very sow.
I'd be looking more at Verstappen if it's wet. Maybe Hulkenberg/Bottas to punch above their weight (although the first two had team mates with car problems last time).
If the status of Gibraltar was the only thing preventing the UK from getting a much better Brexit deal, would you support passing at least some sovereignty over the territory to Spain?
2015 Tory voters
Yes 27%
No 49%
I'd be worried if I was from Gibraltar, fewer than half of 2015 Tories would back Gibraltar
SO You did the right thing. Once a brand is in the toilet it's hard to recover. Bit like Woolworths or Ratners. It's the values and policies you empathise with not really the brand. The brand must die so a better product can be born in its place. So I think joining the Jewish Labour Movement is ultimately not going to help. The centre left needs to replace its rotting fetid home. Knock it down and build a better one. Joining the JLM is like putting a tent in the garden next to a festering carbuncle.
Yes I think the egregiousness of it is that Ken makes out that there was free will involved on the part of the Jews in Germany and that they identified Hitler as a like-minded soul, someone who shared their love and aspirations for a Jewish homeland, and who was, further, "someone they could do business with".
Rather than the fact that the Jews almost certainly realised the threat to them and acted out of desperation, urgency and expediency.
Edit: and that is why Ken's observations are so reprehensible as they denigrate the Jews of Germany, charging them with compliance and collaboration.
I'm not sure who will get through to round 2, but I'm getting more and more convinced it won't be Fillon.
I have been keeping Fillon onside, but really his current odds do not justify me doing so. It is just possible he is being underestimated and there are a lot of shy Fillon supporters, but the gap he has to make up is as wide as ever and the days are ticking away.
I think Potou probably hit home with alot of French voters last night when sticking the boot in to Fillon. I particularly like this report this morning:
"In the most dramatic episode of last night’s debate, Mr Poutou said: “Since January, it’s been a goldmine.
“With Fillon, the more you look, the more corruption and cheating you find. He’s a guy who tells you we must tighten our belts and have austerity but who dips into the public coffers.”
As Mr Fillon stood by shaking his head, and pleading with his rival to stop, Mr Poutou turned his fire on Ms Le Pen.
He said: “It’s the same with Le Pen, you dip into the public coffers, if not here then in Europe.”
Mr Poutou was particularly outraged that both right-wing candidates can claim political immunity from prosecution if they are elected president, saying “ordinary workers don’t have immunity” if they find themselves in trouble with the law."
The car industry doesn't call the UK Treasure Island for nothing.
It's excellent news, but if you were going to buy a new car then March was definitely the month to do it with the tax changes.
For sure, BMW kindly did everything they could to get my new car into the country before the end of March. In the end it arrived on the 30th and the registered it for me while it was still at the port.
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
I left the Labour Party at the end of 1996, but may now follow your example by joining the Jewish Labour Movement. Thanks for the idea!
I have just joined online. It should also get me a vote in any Leadership election. Thanks again!
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
You have my sincere sympathy. But you do retain a link in case it gets sorted. Probably a good step.
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists.
That makes me very sad.
And me, but the Livingstone whitewash is the final nail in the coffin. How can I possibly share a party with that disgusting, morally bankrupt anti-Semite and all the Jew-baiters that are out in force defending him today? How can I give it money or any of my time to a party that allows him to continue as a member? I just can't. And, to be honest, even though it makes me sad to have done it, it also comes as a huge relief. I can't defend any of what Labour currently seems to stand for and I believe the leadership not only to be utterly incompetent, but also thoroughly nasty. I can understand those who wish to stay to fight to save Labour and I wish them all the luck in the world; they are better men and women than me and will one day, I hope, be hailed as heroes. For me, though, the war is over. Jew-baiting is just a bridge too far.
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists.
That makes me very sad.
And me, but the Livingstone whitewash is the final nail in the coffin. How can I possibly share a party with that disgusting, morally bankrupt anti-Semite and all the Jew-baiters that are out in force defending him today? How can I give it money or any of my time to a party that allows him to continue as a member? I just can't. And, to be honest, even though it makes me sad to have done it, it also comes as a huge relief. I can't defend any of what Labour currently seems to stand for and I believe the leadership not only to be utterly incompetent, but also thoroughly nasty. I can understand those who wish to stay to fight to save Labour and I wish them all the luck in the world; they are better men and women than me and will one day, I hope, be hailed as heroes. For me, though, the war is over. Jew-baiting is just a bridge too far.
The car industry doesn't call the UK Treasure Island for nothing.
It's excellent news, but if you were going to buy a new car then March was definitely the month to do it with the tax changes.
For sure, BMW kindly did everything they could to get my new car into the country before the end of March. In the end it arrived on the 30th and the registered it for me while it was still at the port.
Saved me a couple of grand.
When I returned to the UK in 2015 the long haired general wanted us to buy an X5. I tentatively agreed but persuaded her to visit the Range Rover showroom on the way there. We bought an Evoque! She loves it and agrees it's a better car than the X5. Huzzah! (Doing my bit)
In any normal world, a party Deputy Leader who issued a public statement that the party's actions 'shame us all' would conclude his statement by announcing his immediate resignation.
I think if he were an appointee to a Shadow Cabinet post, rather than an elected, unsackable Deputy Leader trying to manouver the party to a different place, then a resignation would already have happened on any one of several occasions.
HIs current role is likely to be, by quite a long margin, the best fit for his particular skills that he will have in his entire political career.
Watson has a unique chance to sort out the mess, before he becomes part of it. He's the one independent of Corbyn who can build a party machine behind him.
The car industry doesn't call the UK Treasure Island for nothing.
It's excellent news, but if you were going to buy a new car then March was definitely the month to do it with the tax changes.
For sure, BMW kindly did everything they could to get my new car into the country before the end of March. In the end it arrived on the 30th and the registered it for me while it was still at the port.
Saved me a couple of grand.
When I returned to the UK in 2015 the long haired general wanted us to buy an X5. I tentatively agreed but persuaded her to visit the Range Rover showroom on the way there. We bought an Evoque! She loves it and agrees it's a better car than the X5. Huzzah! (Doing my bit)
How much is this jamboree going to cost the public purse ? Salmond's lavish use of taxpayers' money on his US jaunts was eye popping, Sturgeon may be even more extravagant in wasting other people's money.
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists.
That makes me very sad.
And me, but the Livingstone whitewash is the final nail in the coffin. How can I possibly share a party with that disgusting, morally bankrupt anti-Semite and all the Jew-baiters that are out in force defending him today? How can I give it money or any of my time to a party that allows him to continue as a member? I just can't. And, to be honest, even though it makes me sad to have done it, it also comes as a huge relief. I can't defend any of what Labour currently seems to stand for and I believe the leadership not only to be utterly incompetent, but also thoroughly nasty. I can understand those who wish to stay to fight to save Labour and I wish them all the luck in the world; they are better men and women than me and will one day, I hope, be hailed as heroes. For me, though, the war is over. Jew-baiting is just a bridge too far.
Leavers want to keep the Rock out of Spanish hands more than remainers I note.
Those numbers don't surprise me, but the subjectiveness of the question is reflected in the high numbers of "don't knows".
The status of Gibraltar wouldn't be the "only" thing preventing a "much better" deal (which would look like what, compared to what? Why would Gibraltar be the dealbreaker for the EU27 on services access?) and what would "some" sovereignty look like?
Also, if you look at the purer question of whether it should remain a self-governing British territory, it has 58% support over joint/sole/devolved Spanish sovereignty that has 19% support across all options.
How much is this jamboree going to cost the public purse ? Salmond's lavish use of taxpayers' money on his US jaunts was eye popping, Sturgeon may be even more extravagant in wasting other people's money.
Handy to be out of the country when this morning's disastrous figures on the Scottish economy came out.
Thanks to one and all for the comments down-thread regarding my departure from Labour. As someone once sort of said: it's not so much that I am leaving, it's more that it has finally left me. To clarify: I still see myself on the moderate left, I still think Brexit was a crap idea, I still think this is a mediocre, incompetent government and I still think that Corbyn will be gone next year. It's just I don't think there is room for anti-Semites or any other kind of racist in any political party and I cannot be a part of one that does not agree. And that's that.
Well, I have left the Labour party. I can't share it with Livingstone and his Jew-baiting apologists. I have joined the Jewish Labour Movement instead to show some solidarity at a really shitty time for Jews on the left (and others too, I imagine). Handily, that will also allow me a vote in any future leadership election. I urge any other thoroughly pissed off and ashamed Labour members to do the same.
It is an honourable stand to make. I wish you well and hope you find in the Jewish Labour Movement an organisation that can provide a comfortable political home for you and a relationship that develops well beyond simple solidarity.
The car industry doesn't call the UK Treasure Island for nothing.
It's excellent news, but if you were going to buy a new car then March was definitely the month to do it with the tax changes.
For sure, BMW kindly did everything they could to get my new car into the country before the end of March. In the end it arrived on the 30th and the registered it for me while it was still at the port.
Saved me a couple of grand.
When I returned to the UK in 2015 the long haired general wanted us to buy an X5. I tentatively agreed but persuaded her to visit the Range Rover showroom on the way there. We bought an Evoque! She loves it and agrees it's a better car than the X5. Huzzah! (Doing my bit)
Surely the Evoque equivalent would be the X3 or new X1? You've cannily persuaded her to spend less as well as supporting local industry - is there a bit of Scots blood in you?
Comments
He looks and sounds like a modern leader.
"Prosecution: I call Timothy Snyder to give evidence on the holocaust."
"Don't we want to sell lots of cars in the UK after Brexit?"
"Sure, but which plant do we want to build them in..."
@SkyNewsBreak: The Unite union has announced workers at car company BMW are to stage a series of eight 24-hour strikes in a dispute over pensions
Tusk is the man we should be talking to, he's the pragmatist Conservative among the mayhem.
Tusk +3 meeting May +3 every month or two for the next year will most likely get the deal 99% done. That's what we should all be hoping for.
Is it any wonder they have decided they want tariff free trade and for us to continue to have their cake and eat it?
If, as is increasingly thought, Labour is now incapable of rebuilding a tent big enough to gather in enough votes to win a GE outright, what is the point of prolonging the agony by electing someone halfway more credible, who will then simply spend another five or ten years proving themselves wrong? Better to stick with Corbyn and get to the inevitable collapse/breakup/realignment somewhat earlier.
In hindsight, it was very much Good News for the Tories.
Now is the time to critisce the Israeli government (Note: very specifically THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT, with no 'Z' words and no 'J' words) for their stance on West Bank settlements.
But no-one from Labour is doing that. Quite the opposite.
When a party refuses to properly discipline someone who has disappeared into the wilder shores of nutjob conspiracies/holocaust denial and anti-Semitism, it is not just Jews who are appalled but anyone with a moral compass.
When a party refuses to properly discipline someone who has disappeared into the wilder shores of nutjob conspiracies/holocaust denial and anti-Semitism, it is not just Jews who are appalled but anyone with a moral compass.
We'd also be free to help a bunch of African countries by replacing aid with trade in food, Brexit could go a long way to alleviating third world poverty.
The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) said 562,337 new cars were registered in March, up 8.4% on the same month last year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39500576
They should have had the gumption to find him innocent but warned him in future to take proper care in his explanations were he ever to touch on the topic again.
As it is they have decided on a cowardly middle road.
I hope that one day there will be a decent social democratic party for you and one that any of us could vote for.
I wonder what we will think of it all in 10, 20, 30 years time.
I can definitely say I hope the Labour Party comes to its senses and that this will turn out to be a blip in its fortunes. (Of course I don't want them to become *too* successful....
HIs current role is likely to be, by quite a long margin, the best fit for his particular skills that he will have in his entire political career.
Hopefully a sensible centre left party that aspires to government may emerge from the wreckage of Corbyn's Labour.
You made the right decision.
Corbyn's more the enemy of the left than the right.
Melenchon is the only one who has momentum, the rest are fairly stagnant in the voting intention polls. While some have said that he has already squeezed the Hamon vote as much as he is likely to, there are a very large percentage of the electorate, whose votes are up for grabs, who are undecided and, that being the case, last night's tv debate will have been a good opportunity for them to make up their minds. Therefore, it is likely that Melenchon's success last night will be translated into a better polling performance over the next few days.
I had you down as a Lib Dem Mr Observer.
Of course, that is if the UK decide to levy the tariff. We would not be obliged to and there are good arguments that the UK should unilaterally remove all tariffs on any goods and services from anywhere.
Livingstone ran London so well. Now he’s trashed his reputation
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/04/ken-livingstone-london-mayor-reputation-huge-blow
The Labour Party needs sensible moderate voices, like your own.
Random thought, back the better drivers (Alonso) rather than the better cars.
It's hear hear, not here here.
Also, I'd like to see a breakdown for just Conservative voters.
Mr. Sandpit, the McLaren could conk out and is still very sow.
I'd be looking more at Verstappen if it's wet. Maybe Hulkenberg/Bottas to punch above their weight (although the first two had team mates with car problems last time).
He is entitled to his opinions - as is, say, Nick Griffin or David Irving - but this is not about his right to say offensive stuff.
It's about whether the Labour party is really willing to stand up for and enforce the values it claims to believe in. And the evidence is that it isn't. On the contrary, Labour is proving that its so-called values are so much hot air and that it does not have a real problem with being a comfortable home for people with the sorts of views which would more usually find a congenial home in the BNP and other similar organisations.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39489115
The hard bit will be the "access to" the single market piece, which will be a trade-off of budgetary contributions, free movement concessions/preferences, in exchange for some recognition of regulatory equivalence *without* formally being a member of the single market.
The first part should be agree in two years with QMV, and to kick in immediately post the agreed transition period.
The latter will be far harder to agree, although a broad framework for it may be.
Brexit deal, would you support passing at least some sovereignty over the territory to Spain?
2015 Tory voters
Yes 27%
No 49%
I'd be worried if I was from Gibraltar, fewer than half of 2015 Tories would back Gibraltar
You did the right thing. Once a brand is in the toilet it's hard to recover. Bit like Woolworths or Ratners. It's the values and policies you empathise with not really the brand. The brand must die so a better product can be born in its place.
So I think joining the Jewish Labour Movement is ultimately not going to help. The centre left needs to replace its rotting fetid home. Knock it down and build a better one. Joining the JLM is like putting a tent in the garden next to a festering carbuncle.
Rather than the fact that the Jews almost certainly realised the threat to them and acted out of desperation, urgency and expediency.
Edit: and that is why Ken's observations are so reprehensible as they denigrate the Jews of Germany, charging them with compliance and collaboration.
I think Potou probably hit home with alot of French voters last night when sticking the boot in to Fillon. I particularly like this report this morning:
"In the most dramatic episode of last night’s debate, Mr Poutou said: “Since January, it’s been a goldmine.
“With Fillon, the more you look, the more corruption and cheating you find. He’s a guy who tells you we must tighten our belts and have austerity but who dips into the public coffers.”
As Mr Fillon stood by shaking his head, and pleading with his rival to stop, Mr Poutou turned his fire on Ms Le Pen.
He said: “It’s the same with Le Pen, you dip into the public coffers, if not here then in Europe.”
Mr Poutou was particularly outraged that both right-wing candidates can claim political immunity from prosecution if they are elected president, saying “ordinary workers don’t have immunity” if they find themselves in trouble with the law."
For sure, BMW kindly did everything they could to get my new car into the country before the end of March. In the end it arrived on the 30th and the registered it for me while it was still at the port.
Saved me a couple of grand.
The status of Gibraltar wouldn't be the "only" thing preventing a "much better" deal (which would look like what, compared to what? Why would Gibraltar be the dealbreaker for the EU27 on services access?) and what would "some" sovereignty look like?
Also, if you look at the purer question of whether it should remain a self-governing British territory, it has 58% support over joint/sole/devolved Spanish sovereignty that has 19% support across all options.
Frit.