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chestnut said:

Alanbrooke said:

williamglenn said:

Did this get covered on here?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-can-benefit-from-brexit-says-australian-foreign-minister-1.2988051

Ireland is set to benefit from Australian companies seeking access to the EU after Brexit, Australia’s foreign minister has said.

“Many Australian firms have accessed the EU via Britain. With the uncertainty surrounding what a post-Brexit Britain will look like, I believe Australian firms will look to Ireland to fulfil that role,” she said.

“Ireland has a very attractive business environment, low corporate tax rates, [a good] lifestyle and there is the connection between Australia and Ireland.

She described Ireland as an “obvious partner” to do business within the EU. “Ireland is superbly positioned to attract that kind of engagement from Australian business. I see this as a great opportunity of how we, Australia and Ireland, can take advantage of what has occurred in Brexit.”

At least Julie took the time to smarten Boris up a bit.

oh yeah because the Irish economy is about the size of New Zealands but without the upside

The Irish are currently contemplating the fact that 88% of their energy comes from/via the UK.

their bigger problem imo is Trumps tax changes

if he drops CT rates and tells US multinats to pay their taxes in the US Irelands in deep doodoo

chestnut said:

Alanbrooke said:

williamglenn said:

Did this get covered on here?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-can-benefit-from-brexit-says-australian-foreign-minister-1.2988051

Ireland is set to benefit from Australian companies seeking access to the EU after Brexit, Australia’s foreign minister has said.

“Many Australian firms have accessed the EU via Britain. With the uncertainty surrounding what a post-Brexit Britain will look like, I believe Australian firms will look to Ireland to fulfil that role,” she said.

“Ireland has a very attractive business environment, low corporate tax rates, [a good] lifestyle and there is the connection between Australia and Ireland.

She described Ireland as an “obvious partner” to do business within the EU. “Ireland is superbly positioned to attract that kind of engagement from Australian business. I see this as a great opportunity of how we, Australia and Ireland, can take advantage of what has occurred in Brexit.”

At least Julie took the time to smarten Boris up a bit.

oh yeah because the Irish economy is about the size of New Zealands but without the upside

The Irish are currently contemplating the fact that 88% of their energy comes from/via the UK.

Energy is a tariff free import, I doubt there will be an issue.

Guess we'll find out if Clarke's first law applies to politicians;

"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong."

The_Apocalypse said:

another_richard said:

You said:

' he opened the party up to individuals from many different backgrounds and walks of life '

which suggests that before Cameron the Conservative party wasn't open to individuals from many different backgrounds and walks of life.

I'd actually say that Cameron with his 'A-lists' and 'jobs for the (posh) boys' might well have narrowed opportunities in the Conservative party.

No, it suggests that Conservative Party wasn't all that diverse prior to Cameron's leadership. Which it wasn't. There was a reason why you've had William Hague do things like go to Notting Hill Carnival when was leader. There's a reason why you've had John Major talk about appealing to ethnic minorities. Part of the modernisation process was attempting to make the Conservative Party more appealing to demographics which by and large didn't vote Conservative. The whole A List thing especially was about making the Conservative Party appear to be a more inclusive party.

So diversity means ethnic minorities.

You could also say being more appealing to working class voters is also diversity.

Or is that an inferior form of diversity - I'm not an expert on diversity top trumps.

And you know what - Cameron wasn't very successful in getting the votes of ethnic minorities. In fact, outside of affluent North London Hindus, he did very badly. So if that was the diversity Cameron was targeting he failed.

While May's targeting of working class voters appears to be going well.

And a look through Cameron's 'A-list' shows a dominance of finance-spad-metro-Oxbridge-jobs-for-the-posh-boys types.

That some of the posh boys were posh girls or non-white posh boys didn't mean is was a diverse group.

chestnut said:

Alanbrooke said:

williamglenn said:

Did this get covered on here?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-can-benefit-from-brexit-says-australian-foreign-minister-1.2988051

Ireland is set to benefit from Australian companies seeking access to the EU after Brexit, Australia’s foreign minister has said.

“Many Australian firms have accessed the EU via Britain. With the uncertainty surrounding what a post-Brexit Britain will look like, I believe Australian firms will look to Ireland to fulfil that role,” she said.

“Ireland has a very attractive business environment, low corporate tax rates, [a good] lifestyle and there is the connection between Australia and Ireland.

She described Ireland as an “obvious partner” to do business within the EU. “Ireland is superbly positioned to attract that kind of engagement from Australian business. I see this as a great opportunity of how we, Australia and Ireland, can take advantage of what has occurred in Brexit.”

At least Julie took the time to smarten Boris up a bit.

oh yeah because the Irish economy is about the size of New Zealands but without the upside

The Irish are currently contemplating the fact that 88% of their energy comes from/via the UK.

Is it true that the UK, as a net EU contributor, effectively subsidises Irish membership of the European Project?

*runs and hides*

Mcron seems to be firming up, to the point that a united left ticket might still come third and Le Pen might lose her 1st round lead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_French_presidential_election,_2017

That 3.0 price at Marathon (hat-tip PfP - I got £40 on) is now down to 2.2.

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

I guess I'm someone who struggles to see how Brexit will be a disaster.

Your post is peppered with the term 'UK' so I presume its extinction would be a visible enough political disaster flowing from Brexit.

The one thing I'm concerned about, where I accept Brexit doesn't help, is in Northern Ireland and with Scottish independence.

But, I'm far from convinced that Scotland had a stable place in a UK that was an EU member long-term anyway.

williamglenn said:

Alanbrooke said:

williamglenn said:

Did this get covered on here?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-can-benefit-from-brexit-says-australian-foreign-minister-1.2988051

Ireland is set to benefit from Australian companies seeking access to the EU after Brexit, Australia’s foreign minister has said.

“Many Australian firms have accessed the EU via Britain. With the uncertainty surrounding what a post-Brexit Britain will look like, I believe Australian firms will look to Ireland to fulfil that role,” she said.

“Ireland has a very attractive business environment, low corporate tax rates, [a good] lifestyle and there is the connection between Australia and Ireland.

She described Ireland as an “obvious partner” to do business within the EU. “Ireland is superbly positioned to attract that kind of engagement from Australian business. I see this as a great opportunity of how we, Australia and Ireland, can take advantage of what has occurred in Brexit.”

At least Julie took the time to smarten Boris up a bit.

oh yeah because the Irish economy is about the size of New Zealands but without the upside

An EU-Australia FTA would be a PR disaster for global Brexit. I wish Cecilia Malmstrom well.

Why? It isn't as if they are only allowed on free trade agreement?

williamglenn said:

Alanbrooke said:

williamglenn said:

Did this get covered on here?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-can-benefit-from-brexit-says-australian-foreign-minister-1.2988051

Ireland is set to benefit from Australian companies seeking access to the EU after Brexit, Australia’s foreign minister has said.

“Many Australian firms have accessed the EU via Britain. With the uncertainty surrounding what a post-Brexit Britain will look like, I believe Australian firms will look to Ireland to fulfil that role,” she said.

“Ireland has a very attractive business environment, low corporate tax rates, [a good] lifestyle and there is the connection between Australia and Ireland.

She described Ireland as an “obvious partner” to do business within the EU. “Ireland is superbly positioned to attract that kind of engagement from Australian business. I see this as a great opportunity of how we, Australia and Ireland, can take advantage of what has occurred in Brexit.”

At least Julie took the time to smarten Boris up a bit.

oh yeah because the Irish economy is about the size of New Zealands but without the upside

An EU-Australia FTA would be a PR disaster for global Brexit. I wish Cecilia Malmstrom well.

there isnt going to be one or didnt you get the gist of the article ?

HYUFD said:

'Meet the Lords' on BBC2 now

I've watched a few minutes of it and it hasn't improved my mood.

Alanbrooke said:

williamglenn said:

Alanbrooke said:

williamglenn said:

Did this get covered on here?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-can-benefit-from-brexit-says-australian-foreign-minister-1.2988051

Ireland is set to benefit from Australian companies seeking access to the EU after Brexit, Australia’s foreign minister has said.

“Many Australian firms have accessed the EU via Britain. With the uncertainty surrounding what a post-Brexit Britain will look like, I believe Australian firms will look to Ireland to fulfil that role,” she said.

“Ireland has a very attractive business environment, low corporate tax rates, [a good] lifestyle and there is the connection between Australia and Ireland.

She described Ireland as an “obvious partner” to do business within the EU. “Ireland is superbly positioned to attract that kind of engagement from Australian business. I see this as a great opportunity of how we, Australia and Ireland, can take advantage of what has occurred in Brexit.”

At least Julie took the time to smarten Boris up a bit.

oh yeah because the Irish economy is about the size of New Zealands but without the upside

An EU-Australia FTA would be a PR disaster for global Brexit. I wish Cecilia Malmstrom well.

there isnt going to be one or didnt you get the gist of the article ?

I was making an unrelated point about Australian relations with Europe, the terms of which will not be dictated by London.

williamglenn said:

Alanbrooke said:

williamglenn said:

Alanbrooke said:

williamglenn said:

Did this get covered on here?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-can-benefit-from-brexit-says-australian-foreign-minister-1.2988051

Ireland is set to benefit from Australian companies seeking access to the EU after Brexit, Australia’s foreign minister has said.

“Many Australian firms have accessed the EU via Britain. With the uncertainty surrounding what a post-Brexit Britain will look like, I believe Australian firms will look to Ireland to fulfil that role,” she said.

“Ireland has a very attractive business environment, low corporate tax rates, [a good] lifestyle and there is the connection between Australia and Ireland.

She described Ireland as an “obvious partner” to do business within the EU. “Ireland is superbly positioned to attract that kind of engagement from Australian business. I see this as a great opportunity of how we, Australia and Ireland, can take advantage of what has occurred in Brexit.”

At least Julie took the time to smarten Boris up a bit.

oh yeah because the Irish economy is about the size of New Zealands but without the upside

An EU-Australia FTA would be a PR disaster for global Brexit. I wish Cecilia Malmstrom well.

there isnt going to be one or didnt you get the gist of the article ?

I was making an unrelated point about Australian relations with Europe, the terms of which will not be dictated by London.

they wont be dictated to by London but by a bunch of farmers based in Liege

when they all die maybe you can get an agreement circa 2060

chestnut said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

chestnut said:

Alanbrooke said:

williamglenn said:

Did this get covered on here?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-can-benefit-from-brexit-says-australian-foreign-minister-1.2988051

Ireland is set to benefit from Australian companies seeking access to the EU after Brexit, Australia’s foreign minister has said.

“Many Australian firms have accessed the EU via Britain. With the uncertainty surrounding what a post-Brexit Britain will look like, I believe Australian firms will look to Ireland to fulfil that role,” she said.

“Ireland has a very attractive business environment, low corporate tax rates, [a good] lifestyle and there is the connection between Australia and Ireland.

She described Ireland as an “obvious partner” to do business within the EU. “Ireland is superbly positioned to attract that kind of engagement from Australian business. I see this as a great opportunity of how we, Australia and Ireland, can take advantage of what has occurred in Brexit.”

At least Julie took the time to smarten Boris up a bit.

oh yeah because the Irish economy is about the size of New Zealands but without the upside

The Irish are currently contemplating the fact that 88% of their energy comes from/via the UK.

Is it true that the UK, as a net EU contributor, effectively subsidises Irish membership of the European Project?

*runs and hides*

I don't know about that Sunil, but the UK made up nearly 27% of the net contribution to the EU budget at the last count.

The Germans were discussing the additional bill for themselves today, while the Swedes were saying the cost of being a member of the EU cannot go up just because Britain is leaving.

Unless they get rid of some of the more useless and expensive features (the commission, the parliament) then it will have to.

The real irony being that if those things didn't exist, Remain would surely have won with ease if a referendum had even been called for.

On the topic, a few thoughts. I grew up in the constituency and my parents still live there (in Fallowfield).

I think Mike is absolutely right to say it is hard to see Labour losing this one. There is a very strong Pakistani / Muslim base that will provide the bedrock of their support, in areas like Rusholme and Levenshulme.

Mike is also right to think the LDs probably have little chance despite their historical strength in the wards. However, If I was Labour, I would be tempted to hold the by-election outside of term time so there is no risk of a Green or even LD surge on the back of the Brexit vote.

Finally, I think - from a betting perspective - the value bet may lie in something like the Conservative vote getting above 10% (if there is such a bet). The west part of Fallowfield (i.e. away from the Owens Park campus) is still quite WWC as is most of Gorton. If the Conservatives are picking up support amongst WWCs disgusted with Labour (and I know a few of my parents' neighbours think that way), it should help the Conservatives. Whalley Range in the past was also a Conservative ward (although a long time ago but there are still some pockets there).

another_richard said:

The_Apocalypse said:

another_richard said:

You said:

' he opened the party up to individuals from many different backgrounds and walks of life '

which suggests that before Cameron the Conservative party wasn't open to individuals from many different backgrounds and walks of life.

I'd actually say that Cameron with his 'A-lists' and 'jobs for the (posh) boys' might well have narrowed opportunities in the Conservative party.

No, it suggests that Conservative Party wasn't all that diverse prior to Cameron's leadership. Which it wasn't. There was a reason why you've had William Hague do things like go to Notting Hill Carnival when was leader. There's a reason why you've had John Major talk about appealing to ethnic minorities. Part of the modernisation process was attempting to make the Conservative Party more appealing to demographics which by and large didn't vote Conservative. The whole A List thing especially was about making the Conservative Party appear to be a more inclusive party.

So diversity means ethnic minorities.

You could also say being more appealing to working class voters is also diversity.

Or is that an inferior form of diversity - I'm not an expert on diversity top trumps.

And you know what - Cameron wasn't very successful in getting the votes of ethnic minorities. In fact, outside of affluent North London Hindus, he did very badly. So if that was the diversity Cameron was targeting he failed.

While May's targeting of working class voters appears to be going well.

And a look through Cameron's 'A-list' shows a dominance of finance-spad-metro-Oxbridge-jobs-for-the-posh-boys types.

That some of the posh boys were posh girls or non-white posh boys didn't mean is was a diverse group.

I didn't say diversity means ethnic minorities. That's what you've said. It was an example of diversity that came to my head.

I agree that Cameron wasn't very successful at getting the votes of minorities - I've mentioned it several times on here after all. But in terms of the party itself, it's more diverse post-Cameron than it was pre-Cameron.

EDIT: Are Shaun Bailey, Helen Grant etc really posh? Liz Truss isn't posh either.

NickPalmer said:

Mcron seems to be firming up, to the point that a united left ticket might still come third and Le Pen might lose her 1st round lead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_French_presidential_election,_2017

That 3.0 price at Marathon (hat-tip PfP - I got £40 on) is now down to 2.2.

Macron's face has been on screens and in the papers a lot in the past few days. What united left ticket? Is there still reason to think there might be one? If there were, it might well get its candidate into the second round.

Beverley_C said:

Up until the 12th Century, Islamic scholars were very active, especially in mathemetics. Indeed, the word algebra is of Arabic origin. The decline of arabic / islamic science is either blamed on Genghis Khan's stampede of destruction from the east or the rise of Sunni Islam around 1200(ish) AD

https://en.qantara.de/content/the-decline-of-islamic-scientific-thought-dont-blame-it-on-al-ghazali

Cyclefree said:

Cookie said:

Mm - interesting. There are ultra-conservative Christian sects too, of course - the Amish and the Plymouth Brethren, for example, both also characterised by an aversion to modernity, unnecessarily strange facial hair and the uglification of their women. And also believing rather too earnestly in God, of course. But in Christian countries, these have for a long time been well outside the mainstream (though I don't suppose puritan England was much fun.). I guess if Christian countries were more dominated by the likes of the Amish things might be rather different. I wonder why this has not been the case - why it is Islamic countries rather than Christian countries who are culturally dominated by the extreme sects of their religion. As far as I dunerstand religion (which is not much) there is no reason why Islam should be the one dominated by fervent believers and Christianity by those paying lip service. But maybe there is.

I think one reason may be that Christianity has been very vigorously challenged, both by groups within it - think of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation - and by secular forces e.g. the French revolution, as well as by wars within and between states. While Christianity has to a very significant extent been at the heart of much of Western European development on very many fronts, it has never had an easy ride. There have always been challenges and challengers.

As far as I know, Islam spread with conquest and has always (?) been linked to political power. Whether the failure of secularism meant that Islam became much more entrenched or it was the presence of Islam which meant that secularism didn't gain a hold, I don't know.

Someone once commented that Christianity held within itself the seeds of the challenges to it. Maybe that doesn't apply in Islam. Again, I simply don't know.

Maybe it's also an element of luck: if, say, the more moderate branches of Islam (the Ahmadis, say) were living in Saudi Arabia and had the benefit of all that lovely oil money, it would be their version that was being taught in madrassas round the world and not the extreme versions.

On this topic there is an excellent book by Bernard Lewis called "What Went Wrong? Western Impact and Middle Eastern Response" which looks at why the Arabic world lost its predominant position in so many areas including science and mathematics.

Scott_P said:

@rafaelbehr: Still yet to see a rebuttal of John Major speech that isn't just a personal attack on the man and denial of his entitlement to an opinion.

all that says is rafael behr doesnt read that widely

Alanbrooke said:

chestnut said:

Alanbrooke said:

williamglenn said:

Did this get covered on here?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-can-benefit-from-brexit-says-australian-foreign-minister-1.2988051

Ireland is set to benefit from Australian companies seeking access to the EU after Brexit, Australia’s foreign minister has said.

“Many Australian firms have accessed the EU via Britain. With the uncertainty surrounding what a post-Brexit Britain will look like, I believe Australian firms will look to Ireland to fulfil that role,” she said.

“Ireland has a very attractive business environment, low corporate tax rates, [a good] lifestyle and there is the connection between Australia and Ireland.

She described Ireland as an “obvious partner” to do business within the EU. “Ireland is superbly positioned to attract that kind of engagement from Australian business. I see this as a great opportunity of how we, Australia and Ireland, can take advantage of what has occurred in Brexit.”

At least Julie took the time to smarten Boris up a bit.

oh yeah because the Irish economy is about the size of New Zealands but without the upside

The Irish are currently contemplating the fact that 88% of their energy comes from/via the UK.

their bigger problem imo is Trumps tax changes

if he drops CT rates and tells US multinats to pay their taxes in the US Irelands in deep doodoo

Quite.

http://www.thejournal.ie/us-companies-trillions-overseas-profits-tax-haven-2392162-Oct2015/

Could be transformative.

Charles said:

Alanbrooke said:

NickPalmer said:

Mcron seems to be firming up, to the point that a united left ticket might still come third and Le Pen might lose her 1st round lead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_French_presidential_election,_2017

That 3.0 price at Marathon (hat-tip PfP - I got £40 on) is now down to 2.2.

oh FFS Nick he's a narcissistic investment banker

what person in their right mind is going to vote for the MF ?

Usually profligate of you Mr Brooke.

Several of the words in your first sentence ("FFS" and "narcissistic") should be taken as read when you are considering ibankers

Charles

lets start with he's french

Alanbrooke said:

Charles said:

Alanbrooke said:

NickPalmer said:

Mcron seems to be firming up, to the point that a united left ticket might still come third and Le Pen might lose her 1st round lead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_French_presidential_election,_2017

That 3.0 price at Marathon (hat-tip PfP - I got £40 on) is now down to 2.2.

oh FFS Nick he's a narcissistic investment banker

what person in their right mind is going to vote for the MF ?

Usually profligate of you Mr Brooke.

Several of the words in your first sentence ("FFS" and "narcissistic") should be taken as read when you are considering ibankers

Charles

lets start with he's french

And he worked for Rothschild

MikeL said:

HOUSE OF LORDS EU COMMITTEE STAGE:

Amendment 4 (UK must stay in Single Market) has gone to a vote.

Opposition Front bench is opposing.

Result in approx 15 mins.

What a waste of time and taxpayers money, why don't they just give every member a hand held device so that they can press a button and vote.

Result in one minute, move on to the next vote and so on.

AndyJS said:

HYUFD said:

'Meet the Lords' on BBC2 now

I've watched a few minutes of it and it hasn't improved my mood.

Overall it is worth a watch and some interesting characters

Scott_P said:

@rafaelbehr: Still yet to see a rebuttal of John Major speech that isn't just a personal attack on the man and denial of his entitlement to an opinion.

"Weak! Weak! Weak!"

RobD said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

SpaceX are believed to be currently making an announcement to the media. No-one really seems to know what is going on, although guesses have varied from an unveiling of their spacesuits to something to do with the Moon.

The first of those would be boring (and a reaction to Boeing showing Colbert theirs the other night). The latter might be really interesting, especially in relation to Trump's speech tomorrow.

So: space fans are either being far too overexcited, or maybe there's something truly exciting on the horizon ...

http://www.geekwire.com/2017/late-show-host-stephen-colbert-dons-boeings-blue-spacesuit-starliner-stardom/

A timely edit:
SpaceX says its going to send two people around the Moon in the 4th Q of 2018.

(Won't link to @SciGuySpace tweet due to swear word)

Apparently it is a privately funded manned mission to the moon (next year!)

Yes but it is a manned flight around the moon not to the moon. No landing planned for this one.

Still a hell of an announcement and great progressif it comes off.

DeClare said:

MikeL said:

HOUSE OF LORDS EU COMMITTEE STAGE:

Amendment 4 (UK must stay in Single Market) has gone to a vote.

Opposition Front bench is opposing.

Result in approx 15 mins.

What a waste of time and taxpayers money, why don't they just give every member a hand held device so that they can press a button and vote.

Result in one minute, move on to the next vote and so on.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/16/bishop-apologises-accidentally-pressing-wrong-button-crucial/

There are certain human factors issues involved.

Okay then... who's suddenly lost a few tens of millions they had spare in their pocket?

http://www.spacex.com/news/2017/02/27/spacex-send-privately-crewed-dragon-spacecraft-beyond-moon-next-year

RobD said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

SpaceX are believed to be currently making an announcement to the media. No-one really seems to know what is going on, although guesses have varied from an unveiling of their spacesuits to something to do with the Moon.

The first of those would be boring (and a reaction to Boeing showing Colbert theirs the other night). The latter might be really interesting, especially in relation to Trump's speech tomorrow.

So: space fans are either being far too overexcited, or maybe there's something truly exciting on the horizon ...

http://www.geekwire.com/2017/late-show-host-stephen-colbert-dons-boeings-blue-spacesuit-starliner-stardom/

A timely edit:
SpaceX says its going to send two people around the Moon in the 4th Q of 2018.

(Won't link to @SciGuySpace tweet due to swear word)

Apparently it is a privately funded manned mission to the moon (next year!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu7AR0-FRro

Black_Rook said:

Synopsis of all GB-wide VI polls conducted so far this year (19 in total):

* Mean Conservative lead over Labour: 13.5% (double-digit leads recorded in 16 of 19 polls)
* Mean splits by party: Con 40.4%, Lab 26.9%, Ukip 12.5%, LibDem 10.1%, Green 4.1%, Other 6.3%

JICIPM!!!

DeClare said:

MikeL said:

HOUSE OF LORDS EU COMMITTEE STAGE:

Amendment 4 (UK must stay in Single Market) has gone to a vote.

Opposition Front bench is opposing.

Result in approx 15 mins.

What a waste of time and taxpayers money, why don't they just give every member a hand held device so that they can press a button and vote.

Result in one minute, move on to the next vote and so on.

Might work if you let them sit on each other's laps. There are about twice as many members as literal seats.

Richard_Tyndall said:

RobD said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

SpaceX are believed to be currently making an announcement to the media. No-one really seems to know what is going on, although guesses have varied from an unveiling of their spacesuits to something to do with the Moon.

The first of those would be boring (and a reaction to Boeing showing Colbert theirs the other night). The latter might be really interesting, especially in relation to Trump's speech tomorrow.

So: space fans are either being far too overexcited, or maybe there's something truly exciting on the horizon ...

http://www.geekwire.com/2017/late-show-host-stephen-colbert-dons-boeings-blue-spacesuit-starliner-stardom/

A timely edit:
SpaceX says its going to send two people around the Moon in the 4th Q of 2018.

(Won't link to @SciGuySpace tweet due to swear word)

Apparently it is a privately funded manned mission to the moon (next year!)

Yes but it is a manned flight around the moon not to the moon. No landing planned for this one.

Still a hell of an announcement and great progressif it comes off.

Indeed. But they need the Falcon Heavy to fly, which has been six months away from first flight since 2013. They also need the Dragon 2 capsule (which can carry people) to fly successfully.

Both of these have really significant risks, although nowhere near as many as the competitor SLS project.

Looking at the local election results in Manchester Gorton in May 2007:

LibD 9996
Lab 7827
Grn 1763
Con 1287
Oth 591

http://www.andrewteale.me.uk/leap/results/2007/35/

Its not inconceivable we get something similar in the by-election.

Certainly the LibDems need to show that they can regain ground in Labour areas - if they can't do it now then they're not going to do so until the next time Labour is in government.

Bojabob said:

The idea of a communist child or a fascist child or a Christian child is absurd.

When I joined the YC's I must have suffered from false consciousness.

RobD said:

MikeL said:

House of Lords EU Bill: Amendment 4 LOSES:

For - 136
Against - 299

Interesting that turnout is only 436.

That's very high for this late in the evening.

freetochoose said:

I've just seen this, it's a weird situation where an MP is 86. I can't think of a single job or profession where an 86 year old would be considered capable.

The Lords' has a few over 90 year olds, though as Lord Tyler pointed out on the BBC2 programme it is the best care home in London

HYUFD said:

freetochoose said:

I've just seen this, it's a weird situation where an MP is 86. I can't think of a single job or profession where an 86 year old would be considered capable.

The Lords' has a few over 90 year olds, though as Lord Tyler pointed out on the BBC2 programme it is the best care home in London

Quite. RIP Kaufman but I'm afraid its farcical.

Sean_F said:

Bojabob said:

The idea of a communist child or a fascist child or a Christian child is absurd.

When I joined the YC's I must have suffered from false consciousness.

It's perfectly acceptable to describe someone brought up in Christian/Muslim/Hindu households by parents of that religion as a child of that religion. It is a description of their upbringing rather than of them specifically, it doesn't take a genius to see that surely?

MonikerDiCanio said:

freetochoose said:

I've just seen this, it's a weird situation where an MP is 86. I can't think of a single job or profession where an 86 year old would be considered capable.

Being an MP isn't a real job. Kaufman,even in his final years, was vastly superior to the human detritus that is the Westminster norm.

Superior in what way?

freetochoose said:

MonikerDiCanio said:

freetochoose said:

I've just seen this, it's a weird situation where an MP is 86. I can't think of a single job or profession where an 86 year old would be considered capable.

Being an MP isn't a real job. Kaufman,even in his final years, was vastly superior to the human detritus that is the Westminster norm.

Superior in what way?

Morally and intellectually.

MonikerDiCanio said:

freetochoose said:

MonikerDiCanio said:

freetochoose said:

I've just seen this, it's a weird situation where an MP is 86. I can't think of a single job or profession where an 86 year old would be considered capable.

Being an MP isn't a real job. Kaufman,even in his final years, was vastly superior to the human detritus that is the Westminster norm.

Superior in what way?

Morally and intellectually.

I've made the fatal mistake of questioning the suitability of a Labour MP, I guess I should have known better

Sunil_Prasannan said:

isam said:

Sean_F said:

Bojabob said:

The idea of a communist child or a fascist child or a Christian child is absurd.

When I joined the YC's I must have suffered from false consciousness.

It's perfectly acceptable to describe someone brought up in Christian/Muslim/Hindu households by parents of that religion as a child of that religion. It is a description of their upbringing rather than of them specifically, it doesn't take a genius to see that surely?

What if they're not particularly religious parents?

Well as I see it, it's not really a label that is set in stone. Personally I have never even been to church and don't come from a religious family, but if I had been described as a Christian child when I was a child I wouldn't have seen it as a big problem, what difference does it make?

What is it people want? Children not to be allowed to go to church with their parents?

The_Apocalypse said:

another_richard said:

The_Apocalypse said:

No, it suggests that Conservative Party wasn't all that diverse prior to Cameron's leadership. Which it wasn't. There was a reason why you've had William Hague do things like go to Notting Hill Carnival when was leader. There's a reason why you've had John Major talk about appealing to ethnic minorities. Part of the modernisation process was attempting to make the Conservative Party more appealing to demographics which by and large didn't vote Conservative. The whole A List thing especially was about making the Conservative Party appear to be a more inclusive party.

So diversity means ethnic minorities.

You could also say being more appealing to working class voters is also diversity.

Or is that an inferior form of diversity - I'm not an expert on diversity top trumps.

And you know what - Cameron wasn't very successful in getting the votes of ethnic minorities. In fact, outside of affluent North London Hindus, he did very badly. So if that was the diversity Cameron was targeting he failed.

While May's targeting of working class voters appears to be going well.

And a look through Cameron's 'A-list' shows a dominance of finance-spad-metro-Oxbridge-jobs-for-the-posh-boys types.

That some of the posh boys were posh girls or non-white posh boys didn't mean is was a diverse group.

I didn't say diversity means ethnic minorities. That's what you've said. It was an example of diversity that came to my head.

I agree that Cameron wasn't very successful at getting the votes of minorities - I've mentioned it several times on here after all. But in terms of the party itself, it's more diverse post-Cameron than it was pre-Cameron.

EDIT: Are Shaun Bailey, Helen Grant etc really posh? Liz Truss isn't posh either.

You said that Cameron had 'opened the party up to individuals from many different backgrounds and walks of life'.

And I pointed that the Conservatives had previously had leaders who were female, Jewish, Born abroad and from 'down market' backgrounds so I'm not sure what these 'different backgrounds and walk of life' are.

And here's Cameron's 'A-listers':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-List_(Conservative)

It doesn't seem a random selection of people to me.

Liz Truss for example is the daughter of a university professor, is an Oxford PPE and was first a parliamentary candidate in 2001.

Sean Bailey certainly was someone of non-standard background but his career was snuffed out by the Cameroons, of whom he was critical.

Helen Grant was a defector from Labour - a smart career move.

https://twitter.com/danjukes17/status/836329686787624961

OllyT said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

chestnut said:

Alanbrooke said:

williamglenn said:

Did this get covered on here?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-can-benefit-from-brexit-says-australian-foreign-minister-1.2988051

Ireland is set to benefit from Australian companies seeking access to the EU after Brexit, Australia’s foreign minister has said.

“Many Australian firms have accessed the EU via Britain. With the uncertainty surrounding what a post-Brexit Britain will look like, I believe Australian firms will look to Ireland to fulfil that role,” she said.

“Ireland has a very attractive business environment, low corporate tax rates, [a good] lifestyle and there is the connection between Australia and Ireland.

She described Ireland as an “obvious partner” to do business within the EU. “Ireland is superbly positioned to attract that kind of engagement from Australian business. I see this as a great opportunity of how we, Australia and Ireland, can take advantage of what has occurred in Brexit.”

At least Julie took the time to smarten Boris up a bit.

oh yeah because the Irish economy is about the size of New Zealands but without the upside

The Irish are currently contemplating the fact that 88% of their energy comes from/via the UK.

Is it true that the UK, as a net EU contributor, effectively subsidises Irish membership of the European Project?

*runs and hides*

I believe Ireland are now a net contributor

Citation needed

Beverley_C said:

freetochoose said:

I've just seen this, it's a weird situation where an MP is 86. I can't think of a single job or profession where an 86 year old would be considered capable.

What about an 89 year old proctologist?

http://metro.co.uk/2017/02/01/worlds-oldest-surgeon-89-is-still-performing-operations-6420890/

Proctologists and MP's...both used to dealing with arseholes!

isam said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

isam said:

Sean_F said:

Bojabob said:

The idea of a communist child or a fascist child or a Christian child is absurd.

When I joined the YC's I must have suffered from false consciousness.

It's perfectly acceptable to describe someone brought up in Christian/Muslim/Hindu households by parents of that religion as a child of that religion. It is a description of their upbringing rather than of them specifically, it doesn't take a genius to see that surely?

What if they're not particularly religious parents?

Well as I see it, it's not really a label that is set in stone. Personally I have never even been to church and don't come from a religious family, but if I had been described as a Christian child when I was a child I wouldn't have seen it as a big problem, what difference does it make?

What is it people want? Children not to be allowed to go to church with their parents?

Children not to be allowed to go to football with their parents?

Pulpstar said:

HYUFD said:

freetochoose said:

HYUFD said:

freetochoose said:

I've just seen this, it's a weird situation where an MP is 86. I can't think of a single job or profession where an 86 year old would be considered capable.

The Lords' has a few over 90 year olds, though as Lord Tyler pointed out on the BBC2 programme it is the best care home in London

Quite. RIP Kaufman but I'm afraid its farcical.

For an MP it is maybe too old but for a member of the Lords which is a revising chamber as long as they have not yet succumbed to dementia I see no reason they cannot stay in post into their 80s and 90s

I think he was able and still performing his job when he died :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PknyjRSEpm4

OK - So he has to hold onto the bench after he gets up for a second time, but he is clearly mentally capable and was able to deliver his speech on behalf of his constituent without problems.

What about an MP who is perhaps younger but develops Alzheimers though ?

Has there ever been a case of that occurring - I think that rather than someone's physical age is a potential real issue. Incapability.

Fair point but for somebody to carry on a full time job 21 years after retirement ages begs the question of how demanding the job is. I wouldn't let an 86 year old relative of mine travel from Manchester to London unaccompanied, the whole thing is ridiculous.