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There is risk of that, or to continue my canary in a coalmine analogy, giving the canary oxygen does not help the miners!Sandpit said:
Would you agree, as a clinician, that the arbitrary 4 hour target can have a negative impact on other aspects of care?foxinsoxuk said:
The 4 hour measure is a reasonable predictor of other aspects of care, such as standardised hospital mortality.David_Evershed said:DavidL said:
But one of the worst performances on cancer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38853700scotslass said:The Scots NHS is performing better than England in the key measurements. Current A@E performance England 82 per cent , current Scottish performance 93 per cent. Most fundamental is sustainability. English Trusts are mired in debt, Scottish Boards have comparatively minor issues.
It is inevitably a complex picture and the focus on A&E to the exclusion of almost everything else is misleading.
Also the measure should be how good the treatment is - not how quick.
Incidentally, my Trust has had no cases of C Diff or MRSA for over six months. That is also a pretty good predictor.
It seems to me - watching from afar - that it's something the politicians and managers want to talk about, so the priorities on the grind are skewed towards meeting the target rather than prioritisation by absolute clinical need.0 -
Thanks. As I said, really interesting.foxinsoxuk said:
It is strongly correlated, for example in this very large Australian study:DavidL said:
Is it? That's interesting because my perception is that the 4 hour target had been largely plucked out of the air by a politician in the last Labour government based more on what could be aimed for and what people would accept. If I am wrong in that it would be interesting to see the evidence.foxinsoxuk said:
The 4 hour measure is a reasonable predictor of other aspects of care, such as standardised hospital mortality.David_Evershed said:DavidL said:
But one of the worst performances on cancer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38853700scotslass said:The Scots NHS is performing better than England in the key measurements. Current A@E performance England 82 per cent , current Scottish performance 93 per cent. Most fundamental is sustainability. English Trusts are mired in debt, Scottish Boards have comparatively minor issues.
It is inevitably a complex picture and the focus on A&E to the exclusion of almost everything else is misleading.
Also the measure should be how good the treatment is - not how quick.
Incidentally, my Trust has had no cases of C Diff or MRSA for over six months. That is also a pretty good predictor.
The success of the NHS generally, and your trust in particular, in overcoming MRSA type superbugs which at one point were going to kill us all seems to me one of the bigger successes of the NHS in recent years. And much underplayed.
https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2016/204/9/national-emergency-access-target-neat-and-4-hour-rule-time-review-target
I suspect that it is correlation rather than causation, with both measures being different ways of measuring the strain on a system. The 4 hr target is the canary in a coalmine.0 -
Given the family link, is he a Cambridge University Nat Tory?The_Taxman said:Cambridge University Tory student who taunted a freezing homeless person by setting fire to a £20 note in front of him.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4208432/Cambridge-student-sets-fire-20-note-homeless-person.html
Many students do things they regret whilst drunk. I just find the focus on the homeless or poor distasteful. Putting a penis in a pigs head is one thing, taunting a vulnerable individual down on their luck is just lower than low.
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Or perhaps he just felt he wanted to make it known that we our parliament unlike our government was not going to cravenly roll over in front of this vulgarian's inappropriate behaviour. Quite an effective hit to nothing and a gesture that will be noted and appreciated by most of our allies and one which should stand us in good stead for our future relationshipsIshmael_Z said:
Except there aren't any losers, because absolutely no one that we know of has ever wanted Trump to be invited to address Parliament in the first place. I suppose there is an outside chance that he had got wind of a conspiracy to make such an invitation and thought he would get his retaliation in first, but I highly doubt it because it would be utterly insane to want Trump to do this. The reality is that Bercow is a fantasist, and this is him being John Hampden (or Walter Mitty facing the firing squad).AlastairMeeks said:
I am genuinely bewildered by the Eurosceptic meltdown about John Bercow. As it happens, his decision is one I would not have taken. But it seems to command majority support in the House of Commons. Never has the phrase "suck it up losers" seemed more apt.Casino_Royale said:
A partisan post from now, sadly, a partisan poster. And it is affecting your judgement.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm very happy to be in the same camp as JackW on this one.Casino_Royale said:
You were totally wrong about Bercow, and David Herdson absolutely right.AlastairMeeks said:
Are they going to unveil anyone who isn't a headbanging Eurosceptic?Scott_P said:@MrHarryCole: Here we go: Alec Shelbrooke: "I will put my name to any document. John Bercow has brought the Speaker's office into disrepute."
A period of silence from you on the subject of the Speaker would be appropriate.
It was outrageous for the government to offer a state visit to Donald Trump without consulting with any of the potentially interested parties on whose behalf it was issuing the invitation. Outrageous and inept.
You should have the good grace and humility to admit you were wrong, and also reassess your objectivity.
If nothing else it will end up costing you a lot of money, as well as respect.0 -
I was looking for an "n". That will do.ThreeQuidder said:
Given the family link, is he a Cambridge University Nat Tory?The_Taxman said:Cambridge University Tory student who taunted a freezing homeless person by setting fire to a £20 note in front of him.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4208432/Cambridge-student-sets-fire-20-note-homeless-person.html
Many students do things they regret whilst drunk. I just find the focus on the homeless or poor distasteful. Putting a penis in a pigs head is one thing, taunting a vulnerable individual down on their luck is just lower than low.0 -
You have to go back a couple of decades to appreciate the media fascination with ‘IT’ girls. They were, as Evelyn Waugh once described those of another era, ‘the bright young things’, famous for being famous and in the case of TPT, terribly well connected.DavidL said:
I just don't know what she did. She was very pretty, sexy, clearly knew how to have a very good time, overindulged in drugs, damaged her health and died all too early. I have no desire to speak ill of the dead at all but she was a star at the sort of parties I (and 99% of the population) am never going to be invited to. Other than that, I don't know why she was famous.AndyJS said:
I didn't mean the same bracket in terms of talent.DavidL said:
Really? One was a brilliant, witty writer, one of the very best. The other had a ghost column written by someone else.AndyJS said:I always put Tara Palmer-Tomkinson and AA Gill in the same sort of bracket, so it's a bit sad they've both died within a few weeks of each other. Obviously there's the Sunday Times connection.
I find the fascination with clothes horses such as TPT really strange.0 -
Not before Monday 20th, the House has risen for the half-term recess.Morris_Dancer said:Any ETA for the vote on the Speaker?
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These days you have to look at the number of middle names (three in total is optimal, with more than that being vulgar).kle4 said:
Richard Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-DraxSunil_Prasannan said:
Camilla Parker-BowlesDavid_Evershed said:
Tara Palmer-Tomkinson RIPfoxinsoxuk said:
Hypenated names now usually just mean born out of wedlock. It long since ceased to be a posh thing.David_Evershed said:
No BAME in our village of 1000 people in the Home Counties.isam said:
Yes I find that quite incredible. The lack of offence taken by the people who wanted (the far more accurate) Midsomer Murders producer hung, drawn and quartered is bewildering.Pulpstar said:
Definite BAME under-representation there.isam said:
Sorry you are right. They didn't promote him because he was crap, and he said it was because he was blackSouthamObserver said:
Not sure the BBC did sack him, did they?FrancisUrquhart said:
Nooooo...its was because the BBC are a load of racists*.isam said:
Didn't the BBC sack him for being a crap journalist?Richard_Nabavi said:Clive Lewis has published his resignation letter, complete with the authentic spelling mistakes you'd expect from someone tipped as a future Labour leader:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/feb/09/corbyn-dismisses-claims-he-has-set-date-for-resigning-as-fake-news-politics-live
13:41
* According to Clive.
Maybe Regional BBC News try to reflect their audience. My regional news is BBC London and they seem to do that pretty well, intentionally or not.
EastEnders, on the other hand, is the most racist programme on tv in terms of accurately reflecting the local population
We once had a black person but he did have a hyphenated name.
For instance I am Charles [mother's Irish family surname] (son of) [father's first name] [father's family name]0 -
Mr. Quidder, ah. Thanks, although that's a long wait. Probably harms rather than hinders the Speaker as it gives what I'd guess is a relatively small opposition (ahem) time to try and increase its strength.
Anyway, must be off.0 -
Mr Meeks,
"There are two positions, both partisan. It would be perverse to choose the position of the minority."
Sorry, didn't you choose Remain?
You're entitled to choose what you will, and now that the deed is done, I hope we will see the usual even-tempered Mr Antifrank back.0 -
France:
"Batten down the hatches."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/02/08/madame-frexit-looms-large-french-political-centre-disintegrates/0 -
This one is definitely a Tory as he is a Cllr: He said Diane Abbott looked like an Ape!DavidL said:
I was looking for an "n". That will do.ThreeQuidder said:
Given the family link, is he a Cambridge University Nat Tory?The_Taxman said:Cambridge University Tory student who taunted a freezing homeless person by setting fire to a £20 note in front of him.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4208432/Cambridge-student-sets-fire-20-note-homeless-person.html
Many students do things they regret whilst drunk. I just find the focus on the homeless or poor distasteful. Putting a penis in a pigs head is one thing, taunting a vulnerable individual down on their luck is just lower than low.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/09/diane-abbott-tells-brexit-minister-f-attempts-kiss-commons-bar/0 -
LOL, in my 'almost midnight' state I have a vision of a small bird wearing an O2 maskfoxinsoxuk said:
There is risk of that, or to continue my canary in a coalmine analogy, giving the canary oxygen does not help the miners!Sandpit said:
Would you agree, as a clinician, that the arbitrary 4 hour target can have a negative impact on other aspects of care?foxinsoxuk said:
The 4 hour measure is a reasonable predictor of other aspects of care, such as standardised hospital mortality.David_Evershed said:DavidL said:
But one of the worst performances on cancer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38853700scotslass said:The Scots NHS is performing better than England in the key measurements. Current A@E performance England 82 per cent , current Scottish performance 93 per cent. Most fundamental is sustainability. English Trusts are mired in debt, Scottish Boards have comparatively minor issues.
It is inevitably a complex picture and the focus on A&E to the exclusion of almost everything else is misleading.
Also the measure should be how good the treatment is - not how quick.
Incidentally, my Trust has had no cases of C Diff or MRSA for over six months. That is also a pretty good predictor.
It seems to me - watching from afar - that it's something the politicians and managers want to talk about, so the priorities on the ground are skewed towards meeting the target rather than prioritisation by absolute clinical need.
Unfortunately these things are rather complicated in the real world, and involve a lot of people. One can only hope that things continue to work out for the best on the ground, as things get discussed at higher levels about the future.0 -
Preventable hospital-acquired infections are one of the most important metrics in my viewDavidL said:
Is it? That's interesting because my perception is that the 4 hour target had been largely plucked out of the air by a politician in the last Labour government based more on what could be aimed for and what people would accept. If I am wrong in that it would be interesting to see the evidence.foxinsoxuk said:
The 4 hour measure is a reasonable predictor of other aspects of care, such as standardised hospital mortality.David_Evershed said:DavidL said:
But one of the worst performances on cancer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38853700scotslass said:The Scots NHS is performing better than England in the key measurements. Current A@E performance England 82 per cent , current Scottish performance 93 per cent. Most fundamental is sustainability. English Trusts are mired in debt, Scottish Boards have comparatively minor issues.
It is inevitably a complex picture and the focus on A&E to the exclusion of almost everything else is misleading.
Also the measure should be how good the treatment is - not how quick.
Incidentally, my Trust has had no cases of C Diff or MRSA for over six months. That is also a pretty good predictor.
The success of the NHS generally, and your trust in particular, in overcoming MRSA type superbugs which at one point were going to kill us all seems to me one of the bigger successes of the NHS in recent years. And much underplayed.0 -
Meanwhile, Ed Miliband continues to keep himself busy:
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/8297604336618332160 -
My Mum once asked Paris Hilton's Dad what she did. He was not happy...DavidL said:
I just don't know what she did. She was very pretty, sexy, clearly knew how to have a very good time, overindulged in drugs, damaged her health and died all too early. I have no desire to speak ill of the dead at all but she was a star at the sort of parties I (and 99% of the population) am never going to be invited to. Other than that, I don't know why she was famous.AndyJS said:
I didn't mean the same bracket in terms of talent.DavidL said:
Really? One was a brilliant, witty writer, one of the very best. The other had a ghost column written by someone else.AndyJS said:I always put Tara Palmer-Tomkinson and AA Gill in the same sort of bracket, so it's a bit sad they've both died within a few weeks of each other. Obviously there's the Sunday Times connection.
I find the fascination with clothes horses such as TPT really strange.0 -
Didn't she star in a 'movie'? I'm sure her parents were very proud of her.Charles said:
My Mum once asked Paris Hilton's Dad what she did. He was not happy...DavidL said:
I just don't know what she did. She was very pretty, sexy, clearly knew how to have a very good time, overindulged in drugs, damaged her health and died all too early. I have no desire to speak ill of the dead at all but she was a star at the sort of parties I (and 99% of the population) am never going to be invited to. Other than that, I don't know why she was famous.AndyJS said:
I didn't mean the same bracket in terms of talent.DavidL said:
Really? One was a brilliant, witty writer, one of the very best. The other had a ghost column written by someone else.AndyJS said:I always put Tara Palmer-Tomkinson and AA Gill in the same sort of bracket, so it's a bit sad they've both died within a few weeks of each other. Obviously there's the Sunday Times connection.
I find the fascination with clothes horses such as TPT really strange.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Night_in_Paris0 -
Succesful 'movie' career.Charles said:
My Mum once asked Paris Hilton's Dad what she did. He was not happy...DavidL said:
I just don't know what she did. She was very pretty, sexy, clearly knew how to have a very good time, overindulged in drugs, damaged her health and died all too early. I have no desire to speak ill of the dead at all but she was a star at the sort of parties I (and 99% of the population) am never going to be invited to. Other than that, I don't know why she was famous.AndyJS said:
I didn't mean the same bracket in terms of talent.DavidL said:
Really? One was a brilliant, witty writer, one of the very best. The other had a ghost column written by someone else.AndyJS said:I always put Tara Palmer-Tomkinson and AA Gill in the same sort of bracket, so it's a bit sad they've both died within a few weeks of each other. Obviously there's the Sunday Times connection.
I find the fascination with clothes horses such as TPT really strange.0 -
Michael Savage @michaelsavage 10m10 minutes ago
Jon Trickett axed as Labour campaigns co-ordinator. What does that say about expectations for the by-elections coming in Copeland and Stoke?0 -
She originally found fame by being photographed kissing Prince Charles (old family friends). At the time she came to prominence, the press wanted posh totty 'it girls'. Right person, right time.DavidL said:
I just don't know what she did. She was very pretty, sexy, clearly knew how to have a very good time, overindulged in drugs, damaged her health and died all too early. I have no desire to speak ill of the dead at all but she was a star at the sort of parties I (and 99% of the population) am never going to be invited to. Other than that, I don't know why she was famous.AndyJS said:
I didn't mean the same bracket in terms of talent.DavidL said:
Really? One was a brilliant, witty writer, one of the very best. The other had a ghost column written by someone else.AndyJS said:I always put Tara Palmer-Tomkinson and AA Gill in the same sort of bracket, so it's a bit sad they've both died within a few weeks of each other. Obviously there's the Sunday Times connection.
I find the fascination with clothes horses such as TPT really strange.0 -
Th Telegraph has spent the last 10 months relentlessly trying to prove that Europe without Britain is going to Hell in a handcart. Quite why when it was the UK's choice-we weren't expelled-is hard to fathom. Something in the right wing psyche means anything other than their way must be the wrong way.rottenborough said:France:
"Batten down the hatches."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/02/08/madame-frexit-looms-large-french-political-centre-disintegrates/
Reading some of the character assassinations of Barack Obama and even his wife on right wing sites even though he's retired is something to behold0 -
Would there be a by-election or do the people of Buckingham get a Labour MP for 3 years?0
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The whole point of It Girls was that they were famous for being famous.
Sad about Tara. She always struck me as a hell of a lot of fun and very likeable. RIP.0 -
The Anstuther-Gough-Calthorpes own quite a bit of land in this part of the world.Charles said:
These days you have to look at the number of middle names (three in total is optimal, with more than that being vulgar).kle4 said:
Richard Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-DraxSunil_Prasannan said:
Camilla Parker-BowlesDavid_Evershed said:
Tara Palmer-Tomkinson RIPfoxinsoxuk said:
Hypenated names now usually just mean born out of wedlock. It long since ceased to be a posh thing.David_Evershed said:
No BAME in our village of 1000 people in the Home Counties.isam said:
Yes I find that quite incredible. The lack of offence taken by the people who wanted (the far more accurate) Midsomer Murders producer hung, drawn and quartered is bewildering.Pulpstar said:
Definite BAME under-representation there.isam said:
Sorry you are right. They didn't promote him because he was crap, and he said it was because he was blackSouthamObserver said:
Not sure the BBC did sack him, did they?FrancisUrquhart said:
Nooooo...its was because the BBC are a load of racists*.isam said:
Didn't the BBC sack him for being a crap journalist?Richard_Nabavi said:Clive Lewis has published his resignation letter, complete with the authentic spelling mistakes you'd expect from someone tipped as a future Labour leader:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/feb/09/corbyn-dismisses-claims-he-has-set-date-for-resigning-as-fake-news-politics-live
13:41
* According to Clive.
Maybe Regional BBC News try to reflect their audience. My regional news is BBC London and they seem to do that pretty well, intentionally or not.
EastEnders, on the other hand, is the most racist programme on tv in terms of accurately reflecting the local population
We once had a black person but he did have a hyphenated name.
For instance I am Charles [mother's Irish family surname] (son of) [father's first name] [father's family name]0 -
Trumpland:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/18/jack-kingston-school-lunch_n_4467711.html
Rep. Jack Kingston Proposes That Poor Students Sweep Floors In Exchange For Lunch-1 -
Far be it from me to suggest you are talking up your own book Alastair!AlastairMeeks said:Meanwhile, Ed Miliband continues to keep himself busy:
https://twitter.com/ed_miliband/status/829760433661833216
(Meanwhile I note that Ed is calling for an inquiry - okay, revisiting one)0 -
I am not a defender of Trump or the US... but that article is 4 years oldNigelb said:Trumpland:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/18/jack-kingston-school-lunch_n_4467711.html
Rep. Jack Kingston Proposes That Poor Students Sweep Floors In Exchange For Lunch0 -
This outrage over Bercow. Is this where we are supposed to suggest people are clambering on the outrage bus and virtue signalling? Let the lefties know!0
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It's hard to argue with his spokesman's statement: “It is sad that trying to have a productive conversation about instilling a strong work ethic in the next generation of Americans so quickly devolves into the usual name-calling partisan hysteria."Nigelb said:Trumpland:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/18/jack-kingston-school-lunch_n_4467711.html
Rep. Jack Kingston Proposes That Poor Students Sweep Floors In Exchange For Lunch
But it's a dumb idea on the face of it. From someone who endorsed Ted Cruz.0 -
No, he did not. The man is a narcissistic muppet with small man syndrome.RobD said:
Did he have to have a public position on the matter?AlastairMeeks said:
There are two positions, both partisan. It would be perverse to choose the position of the minority.Mortimer said:
Majority support is not enough for someone meant to represent the whole house - especially when the support is so partisan.AlastairMeeks said:
I am genuinely bewildered by the Eurosceptic meltdown about John Bercow. As it happens, his decision is one I would not have taken. But it seems to command majority support in the House of Commons. Never has the phrase "suck it up losers" seemed more apt.Casino_Royale said:
A partisan post from now, sadly, a partisan poster. And it is affecting your judgement.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm very happy to be in the same camp as JackW on this one.Casino_Royale said:
You were totally wrong about Bercow, and David Herdson absolutely right.AlastairMeeks said:
Are they going to unveil anyone who isn't a headbanging Eurosceptic?Scott_P said:@MrHarryCole: Here we go: Alec Shelbrooke: "I will put my name to any document. John Bercow has brought the Speaker's office into disrepute."
A period of silence from you on the subject of the Speaker would be appropriate.
It was outrageous for the government to offer a state visit to Donald Trump without consulting with any of the potentially interested parties on whose behalf it was issuing the invitation. Outrageous and inept.
You should have the good grace and humility to admit you were wrong, and also reassess your objectivity.
If nothing else it will end up costing you a lot of money, as well as respect.0 -
It is a dumb idea, but anyone who endorses Ted Cruz cannot be the sharpest knife in the drawer.ThreeQuidder said:
It's hard to argue with his spokesman's statement: “It is sad that trying to have a productive conversation about instilling a strong work ethic in the next generation of Americans so quickly devolves into the usual name-calling partisan hysteria."Nigelb said:Trumpland:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/18/jack-kingston-school-lunch_n_4467711.html
Rep. Jack Kingston Proposes That Poor Students Sweep Floors In Exchange For Lunch
But it's a dumb idea on the face of it. From someone who endorsed Ted Cruz.0 -
I am an IT girl. I have worked in IT for far too long and I am definitely not famous.Jobabob said:The whole point of It Girls was that they were famous for being famous.
Sad about Tara. She always struck me as a hell of a lot of fun and very likeable. RIP.
0 -
Quite! And there is no evidence the centre is collapsing in France. Le Pen has remained relatively stable in the polls whilst her rivals have ebbed and flowed. The Telegraph has gone seriously downhill in the last year or so.Roger said:
Th Telegraph has spent the last 10 months relentlessly trying to prove that Europe without Britain is going to Hell in a handcart. Quite why when it was the UK's choice-we weren't expelled-is hard to fathom. Something in the right wing psyche means anything other than their way must be the wrong way.rottenborough said:France:
"Batten down the hatches."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/02/08/madame-frexit-looms-large-french-political-centre-disintegrates/
Reading some of the character assassinations of Barack Obama and even his wife on right wing sites even though he's retired is something to behold0 -
Because Scotland has £1700 more per head to spend thanks to Barnett?scotslass said:The Scots NHS is performing better than England in the key measurements. Current A@E performance England 82 per cent , current Scottish performance 93 per cent. Most fundamental is sustainability. English Trusts are mired in debt, Scottish Boards have comparatively minor issues.
0 -
In the last 40 years the Scottish population has barely increased. Meanwhile, there are 10 million extra people in England.
The 300,000 that keep coming every year are overwhelmingly coming to England as well.
That is bound to have a specific impact on England. More resources need to be given to it.0 -
QRA doing their job again.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/09/raf-typhoons-scrambled-intercept-russian-bombers-near-shetland/0 -
IIRC correctly, on the basis of past state visits, the invitation for the visit comes first, then the various events are scheduled (or not as the case may be). It isn't a package holiday,DavidL said:
I have not seen any evidence that an address to Parliament was even discussed before Bercow's outburst. A state visit does not necessarily include such an event. Lord Fowler was pretty clear the question had not even arisen.foxinsoxuk said:
I would like to see Trump barracked by parliament, like a particularly bad tempered PMQs, but surely either the PM had no intention of Trump addressing parliament, in which case no problem, or she exceeded her authority by suggesting it before discussing with the speaker.DavidL said:
I think this is a red herring. The question is not whether the criticism of Trump was correct or reasonable (for which a case can undoubtedly be made) but whether it was correct or appropriate for the Speaker to make a unilateral declaration in respect of these matters which has the effect of undermining the foreign policy of the government of the day and in respect of which he failed to consult the other interested parties.kle4 said:
There are middle grounds. Criticising Trump is not what upsets many - it was the manner of criticism. Which he knows he did the wrong way, since he apologised to the Lord Speaker. Several examples have been given how he could have been critical of Trump while reflecting the will of the house, more or less, without being unreasonable.surbiton said:
The partisanship is being brought by the government - so leave that shit out! Bercow criticised Trump and correctly. He is a hero.Philip_Thompson said:
Even some of our
Put shortly, it wasn't. It was an abuse of his position and however much one agrees with the views expressed that position does not change. He has undermined himself. I suspect he will survive but he is damaged by this and, far more important, so is the Office that he holds.
This state visit is going to be popcorn time...0 -
I wonder if he'll get an invitaion to address the Scottish Parliament ?Malmesbury said:
IIRC correctly, on the basis of past state visits, the invitation for the visit comes first, then the various events are scheduled (or not as the case may be). It isn't a package holiday,DavidL said:
I have not seen any evidence that an address to Parliament was even discussed before Bercow's outburst. A state visit does not necessarily include such an event. Lord Fowler was pretty clear the question had not even arisen.foxinsoxuk said:
I would like to see Trump barracked by parliament, like a particularly bad tempered PMQs, but surely either the PM had no intention of Trump addressing parliament, in which case no problem, or she exceeded her authority by suggesting it before discussing with the speaker.DavidL said:
I think this is a red herring. The question is not whether the criticism of Trump was correct or reasonable (for which a case can undoubtedly be made) but whether it was correct or appropriate for the Speaker to make a unilateral declaration in respect of these matters which has the effect of undermining the foreign policy of the government of the day and in respect of which he failed to consult the other interested parties.kle4 said:
There are middle grounds. Criticising Trump is not what upsets many - it was the manner of criticism. Which he knows he did the wrong way, since he apologised to the Lord Speaker. Several examples have been given how he could have been critical of Trump while reflecting the will of the house, more or less, without being unreasonable.surbiton said:
The partisanship is being brought by the government - so leave that shit out! Bercow criticised Trump and correctly. He is a hero.Philip_Thompson said:
Even some of our
Put shortly, it wasn't. It was an abuse of his position and however much one agrees with the views expressed that position does not change. He has undermined himself. I suspect he will survive but he is damaged by this and, far more important, so is the Office that he holds.
This state visit is going to be popcorn time...0
