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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Tories are looking to Copeland for endorsement of Mrs. May

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,098
    Re Kenneth Clarke, he did one very good thing, that I think will be remembered long after he is no more: he took on the white collar unions.
  • It's a gamble that Merkel and ABLP (anyone but le Pen) win the elections this year. If they do, the EU will be well placed (politically) to press ahead with EU army and other big integration steps. Laying the groundwork to treat the USA as an enemy not an ally gives them more justification for integration.

    Can we just step back and think what is happening here. Treating the US as an enemy is beyond belief and very scary. The military, trade and financial implications are horrific.

    We are going to a place that is utterly unbelievable
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600
    edited January 2017

    Much later start and less publicity to date for the pro Trump petition.
    Pro Trump petition now getting a higher rate of new signatures than anti Trump petition for first time. Daily Telegraph now mentioning it too and not long until the Mail follows
    https://petition.parliament.uk
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/31/rival-donald-trump-petition-asking-state-visit-passes-100000/amp/?client=ms-android-orange-gb
  • Verhofstad said something very similar yesterday - so clearly a coordinated position, not random musings....

    Given that Trump has called on other countries to follow the Brexit example and is now the most powerful man on earth, it's not a huge stretch to see him as a major threat to the EU.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Can we just step back and think what is happening here. Treating the US as an enemy is beyond belief and very scary. The military, trade and financial implications are horrific.

    We are going to a place that is utterly unbelievable

    Is it worse than treating the EU as an enemy?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,320
    Scott_P said:

    @BBCNormanS: John Redwood - I wd not have stood as an MP again if the Brexit referendum had gone the other way.

    That alone would have been worth it...

    I have no doubt that they will have no choice. The EU seems much weaker than only a few weeks ago
    Riubbish as usual
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,844

    36 hours later and the publicity for the no state visit petition only kicked in once the numbers had got large.

    I suspect that the pro-Trump petition is primarily identifying the size of the "Let's wind-up a lefty" demographic in the UK.

    What I don't understand is why the 'wind up a lefty' types continuously mock e-petitions as a waste of time for virtue signalling snowflakes - and then they go and start a petition themselves!
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Can we just step back and think what is happening here. Treating the US as an enemy is beyond belief and very scary. The military, trade and financial implications are horrific.

    We are going to a place that is utterly unbelievable

    These EU guys lost Brexit and now their friendly regime in the White House.

    They're angry and desperate.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,101

    Indeed. And as you say, the same's true for many married women.

    I'm quite lucky in the fact I was a bit of a tart in my younger life. I slept around a bit, had fun, and had some relationships with women who are still my (and in a couple of cases 'our') friend. I got the sleeping-around bug more or less out of my system.

    I meet lots of yummy mummies, and am friends with a fair few as well (in fact, I had one around for a play date with her son this morning). Some are very attractive, and all are younger than me. But if I was to cheat with one, I would potentially lose so much, and for what? A few shags.

    Taking it logically, I'd lose far more than I could ever gain. Being crude, I'd much rather have a w*nk than an affair.

    Cue comments ... ;)
    Wow.
  • For clarity: I'm very happy with my wife. And very lucky.

    But, do I not salivate/fantasise over other beautiful women, occasionally?

    Of course I do. I'm a red-blooded male. And so does my wife over some 'celebrity' men. And we tell each other. And it's ok.

    It's normal; it's human.
    Which women and which men?
  • Can we just step back and think what is happening here. Treating the US as an enemy is beyond belief and very scary. The military, trade and financial implications are horrific.

    We are going to a place that is utterly unbelievable

    Trump has made clear on a number of occasions that he dislikes the European Union. In fact, he did it during the press conference with Theresa May last week.

  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    I'd have voted UKIP in Nick's seat, in the knowledge that would have let Nick in.
    hear hear. No time for Soubry and the awful Wollaston I find particularly annoying in their quest to become twitter martyrs
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,101
    @JJ - FWIW, I agree.

    Yes, one could have a few shags (which would probably be thrilling at the time) but I'd feel instant shame, self-hatred and guilt after, and probably feel I had to tell my wife, which would permanently damage a relationship with the women that means everything to me.

    So it's not worth it. I am resisting my biological programming for my own social and emotional well-being.

    The less said about the wanking, the better.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    What I don't understand is why the 'wind up a lefty' types continuously mock e-petitions as a waste of time for virtue signalling snowflakes - and then they go and start a petition themselves!
    Do you genuinely not see that, after too many wasted years, we've finally woken up to the fun of trolling back at the left?
  • What I don't understand is why the 'wind up a lefty' types continuously mock e-petitions as a waste of time for virtue signalling snowflakes - and then they go and start a petition themselves!

    And then monitor the number of signatures so closely!

  • Animal_pbAnimal_pb Posts: 608
    Scott_P said:

    Is it worse than treating the EU as an enemy?
    Please tell me that's a rhetorical question.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    It's a race between leaving the WTO and leaving the UN.
    I think trying to read Trump is a lose, lose game
  • Scott_P said:

    Is it worse than treating the EU as an enemy?
    No one should be treating anybody as an enemy.

    The EU is riven with division. The Baltic states which include Poland will resist any attempt to demonise the US, probably with the Scandinavians, Hungary and the Balkans support the US, so the EU is heading for very serious internal chaos whether you like it or not
  • Can we just step back and think what is happening here. Treating the US as an enemy is beyond belief and very scary. The military, trade and financial implications are horrific.

    We are going to a place that is utterly unbelievable
    And one which is way, way too far for most West Europeans.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,615
    rcs1000 said:

    Re Kenneth Clarke, he did one very good thing, that I think will be remembered long after he is no more: he took on the white collar unions.

    Ken Clarke has a pretty legitimate claim to have saved the NHS.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,101
    Animal_pb said:

    Fair enough. I think most of us were in the same camp as Casino; the Euro felt like an existential threat that trumped all other considerations. It still felt wrong voting for someone who, with the best will in the world, was never going to look like a PM in waiting, though.
    Some Europhiles may laugh (fair enough) but there were several times I was in tears - and very stressed - in 2001-2003 when I thought we might permanently and irrevocably lose economic control of this country. I had a few screaming arguments with those who were in favour.

    That far outweighed my preference for a cosmetic victory, or slightly less clear defeat, of the Conservative Party next to Blair's Labour Party following much the same policies at the time.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited January 2017

    @JJ - FWIW, I agree.

    Yes, one could have a few shags (which would probably be thrilling at the time) but I'd feel instant shame, self-hatred and guilt after, and probably feel I had to tell my wife, which would permanently damage a relationship with the women that means everything to me.

    So it's not worth it. I am resisting my biological programming for my own social and emotional well-being.

    The less said about the wanking, the better.

    In the words of The Great Prophet Kevin Bloody Wilson

    "So if you say you don't wank you're a liar
    And a fool if you say that you do
    So next time you see
    Prince Charles on TV
    Remember he wanked himself too"


    https://genius.com/Kevin-bloody-wilson-i-gave-up-wanking-lyrics
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,028
    edited January 2017
    Saving rates are beginning to edge up for the first time in years.
    RCI have just announced 1.1% on its instant access savings account up from 1.02%.

    Good news for savers. Potentially bad news for those with mortgages.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,017
    HYUFD said:

    Pro Trump petition now getting a higher rate of new signatures than anti Trump petition for first time. Daily Telegraph now mentioning it too and not long until the Mail follows
    https://petition.parliament.uk
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/31/rival-donald-trump-petition-asking-state-visit-passes-100000/amp/?client=ms-android-orange-gb
    Quite a lot of ground to make up 1.6 million vs 0.1 million.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Enough already about Selbstbefriedigung, at least this side of the lagershed.
  • SeanT said:

    If it does come down to it, it will be the Anglosphere versus the EU. My money is on the Anglosphere prevailing.

    But it won't come down to that. More likely is the entire west uniting - in 10 or 30 years time - to face the Asian challenge. NAFTA and the U.K. and EFTA and the EU will form a customs union.

    Trump wants to rewrite NAFTA, or leave it.

    When it comes to trade, Australia would choose Asia every single time over the Anglo-sphere, as would New Zealand.

    http://dfat.gov.au/about-us/publications/trade-investment/australias-trade-in-goods-and-services/Pages/australias-trade-in-goods-and-services-2014.aspx

    https://www.nzte.govt.nz/en/invest/statistics/

    Asia is a huge opportunity - especially now that Trump seems intent on making it harder for US companies to operate there.

  • What I don't understand is why the 'wind up a lefty' types continuously mock e-petitions as a waste of time for virtue signalling snowflakes - and then they go and start a petition themselves!
    Because they probably find this to be a joke and not serious unlike the snowflakes.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,028

    Can we just step back and think what is happening here. Treating the US as an enemy is beyond belief and very scary. The military, trade and financial implications are horrific.

    We are going to a place that is utterly unbelievable
    Come senators, congressmen
    Please heed the call
    Don't stand in the doorway
    Don't block up the hall
    For he that gets hurt
    Will be he who has stalled
    There's the battle outside raging
    It'll soon shake your windows and rattle your walls
    For the times they are a-changing
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,844
    GeoffM said:

    Do you genuinely not see that, after too many wasted years, we've finally woken up to the fun of trolling back at the left?
    Trump himself is undoubtedly trolling the left with his latest announcements, but the counter petition just looks like a bunch of people taking offense on behalf of Trump.
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Scott_P said:
    If we must indulge these moronic petitions, is there a way in which we can at least find out how many individual signatures there have been, as opposed to a few thousand nutters using multiple email addresses? All it would take is 10,000 with 10 email addresses, and hey presto, our elected representatives have to use their precious time 'debating' the subject. These petitions are the continued infantilisation of discourse in this country, and indeed right across the democratic West.
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897

    I'd have voted UKIP in Nick's seat, in the knowledge that would have let Nick in.
    Nick is more Tory than Soubry and he's a communist! :D:D
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    SeanT said:

    If it does come down to it, it will be the Anglosphere versus the EU. My money is on the Anglosphere prevailing.

    But it won't come down to that. More likely is the entire west uniting - in 10 or 30 years time - to face the Asian challenge. NAFTA and the U.K. and EFTA and the EU will form a customs union.
    The rest of the world, in Asia and the Middle East, they all speak English. The Anglosphere has already prevailed, the whole world speaks our business language.

    Compare to Europe, where they all speak different languages, guess where the business is being done..
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,017
    MPs will debate whether US President Trump should be granted a UK state visit, as a petition against the idea nears 1.7 million signatures.
    The debate, on 20 February, will also take in a second petition calling for the visit to go ahead, signed by more than 100,000 people.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38814346
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,381
    SeanT said:

    If it does come down to it, it will be the Anglosphere versus the EU. My money is on the Anglosphere prevailing.

    But it won't come down to that. More likely is the entire west uniting - in 10 or 30 years time - to face the Asian challenge. NAFTA and the U.K. and EFTA and the EU will form a customs union.
    I see no reason why we should have to treat either the US or the EU as enemies.
  • Sky now reporting Tusk's US enemy threat
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Trump himself is undoubtedly trolling the left with his latest announcements, but the counter petition just looks like a bunch of people taking offense on behalf of Trump.
    I disagree. If I even vaguely irritated a single lefty by helping that petition past 100k then it was electrons well spent.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,381

    Some Europhiles may laugh (fair enough) but there were several times I was in tears - and very stressed - in 2001-2003 when I thought we might permanently and irrevocably lose economic control of this country. I had a few screaming arguments with those who were in favour.

    That far outweighed my preference for a cosmetic victory, or slightly less clear defeat, of the Conservative Party next to Blair's Labour Party following much the same policies at the time.
    Joining the Euro would have done real harm to this country (and possibly destroyed the Eurozone, as our economy would be too large to bail out).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,098
    edited January 2017

    Sky now reporting Tusk's US enemy threat

    What has Donald Tusk said, can you fill me in on the relevant quote ?
  • Sandpit said:

    The rest of the world, in Asia and the Middle East, they all speak English. The Anglosphere has already prevailed, the whole world speaks our business language.

    Compare to Europe, where they all speak different languages, guess where the business is being done..

    In my experience, English is spoken in Europe, too.

  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Brexit will not be a catastrophe. Neither will it be a paradise.

    It's just choosing a different geopolitical path for the UK to follow. I think a better on. But life will go on either way.

    So stop being so silly.
    Leave him alone. I'm sure he lightens others' lives much as he lightens mine.
  • @Richard_Tyndall Wrong again. I've read plenty of Hannan. It's why I think he should be utterly ashamed of having associated with that particular Leave campaign and why it's now reasonable to call him a hypocrite who's getting his cumupance.

    Okay, then I mistakenly gave you the benefit of the doubt. Clearly you are too dumb to understand what he was saying.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,544
    edited January 2017
    Barnesian said:

    Come senators, congressmen
    Please heed the call
    So now as I'm leaving
    I'm weary as Hell
    The confusion I'm feeling
    Ain't no tongue can tell
    The words fill my head
    And fall to the floor
    That if God is on our side
    He'll stop the next war

    Someone said 2017 could be another summer of love. Perhaps the protest song will make a comeback too and popular culture will regain some vitality.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    GeoffM said:

    I disagree. If I even vaguely irritated a single lefty by helping that petition past 100k then it was electrons well spent.
    :lol:

    Me too - I signed just to annoy the MSM who've been wanking over the other one for two days like it was a plane crash on Islington.
  • Sean_F said:

    I see no reason why we should have to treat either the US or the EU as enemies.
    Neither do I but Tusk has made it so with his irrational remarks today.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Sean_F said:

    Joining the Euro would have done real harm to this country (and possibly destroyed the Eurozone, as our economy would be too large to bail out).
    Indeed. - The EU couldn’t even bail out Greece without the help of the IMF.
  • NEW THREAD

  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852

    It's a gamble that Merkel and ABLP (anyone but le Pen) win the elections this year. If they do, the EU will be well placed (politically) to press ahead with EU army and other big integration steps. Laying the groundwork to treat the USA as an enemy not an ally gives them more justification for integration.

    Without us the EU Army will be the French army with a few camp followers, the Bundeswehr goes home at the weekend for heavens sakes!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600
    edited January 2017

    Trump wants to rewrite NAFTA, or leave it.

    When it comes to trade, Australia would choose Asia every single time over the Anglo-sphere, as would New Zealand.

    http://dfat.gov.au/about-us/publications/trade-investment/australias-trade-in-goods-and-services/Pages/australias-trade-in-goods-and-services-2014.aspx

    https://www.nzte.govt.nz/en/invest/statistics/

    Asia is a huge opportunity - especially now that Trump seems intent on making it harder for US companies to operate there.

    Australia and New Zealand are part of the Anglosphere, ethnically, culturally and linguistically, the fact they will continue to trade with Asia and the UK Europe does not change that
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited January 2017
    Chaos or disruption

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/156628357041/is-president-trump-doing-management-wrong

    "If you see a pundit crying “chaos” about Trump’s early moves, you’re probably seeing someone with no entrepreneurial management experience. In the startup world, speed has replaced intelligence whenever you can rapidly test*. Doing things quickly, and adjusting as needed, often gets you to a faster/better result than planning a moonshot that has exactly one path to success.

    Obviously you want to match the management style to the situation. The messy entrepreneurial style might work great for fixing “systems” in the government, such as healthcare and immigration. It should work against ISIS too. And I expect it will be great for negotiating with other countries because they don’t know what to expect. But sometimes you need to get it right the first time because the stakes are high. Those situations will be obvious to any president. I wouldn’t worry about President Trump launching some nukes just to see how it turns out.

    A good way to tell whether a pundit or citizen understands the field of risk management well enough to critique Trump’s performance is to ask how they view his history of bankruptcies. If a person thinks those bankruptcies are a sign of poor management, they probably don’t know much about business. But if they understand the few bankruptcies – out of hundreds of projects – as part of a diversification strategy with good risk management that siloed off the losers, you might be seeing someone who understands business.
  • Animal_pbAnimal_pb Posts: 608
    Sean_F said:

    Joining the Euro would have done real harm to this country (and possibly destroyed the Eurozone, as our economy would be too large to bail out).
    That was certainly my view, 15 years ago; I haven't seen anything since to change my mind.
  • I do not think the EU suggesting they are at war with the US is going to help the remainers
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,098

    Some Europhiles may laugh (fair enough) but there were several times I was in tears - and very stressed - in 2001-2003 when I thought we might permanently and irrevocably lose economic control of this country. I had a few screaming arguments with those who were in favour.

    That far outweighed my preference for a cosmetic victory, or slightly less clear defeat, of the Conservative Party next to Blair's Labour Party following much the same policies at the time.
    In the long run, I don't see any future for government controlled currencies.

    This economic age will end when governments think they can solve every problem via the printing press (sorry, quantitive easing). The hyper-inflation that comes with that will destroy trust in government controlled currencies, and we will either return to the gold standard, or to something like Bitcoin.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,163
    GeoffM said:

    In the words of The Great Prophet Kevin Bloody Wilson

    "So if you say you don't wank you're a liar
    And a fool if you say that you do
    So next time you see
    Prince Charles on TV
    Remember he wanked himself too"


    https://genius.com/Kevin-bloody-wilson-i-gave-up-wanking-lyrics
    He probably had someone to do it for him.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Guido
    This morning Khan told No10 to rescind Trump invite over travel ban. Tonight Khan hosts 11 nations with travel bans. https://t.co/Dnen5pTbzI https://t.co/xQuq2AHaOq
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    Jason said:

    If we must indulge these moronic petitions, is there a way in which we can at least find out how many individual signatures there have been, as opposed to a few thousand nutters using multiple email addresses? All it would take is 10,000 with 10 email addresses, and hey presto, our elected representatives have to use their precious time 'debating' the subject. These petitions are the continued infantilisation of discourse in this country, and indeed right across the democratic West.
    Its probably worse than you think, on the EU second referendum petition there was evidence shown that several tens of thousands of entries (at the least) were entered as part of a wheeze by some bunch of muppets from 4chan. As a measure of the support of one side of the other its almost worthless, a few IT literate people on either side will completely throw the result.

    On websites the government actually cares about, authentication is much stronger, mostly requiring you to enter an identifying number (such as NI No, Driving License No, Passport No etc) that the government knows, but which is generally speaking not public knowledge, and can be tied to one individual and mostly, one address.

    The petition website is conspicuously there to give people the impression that they were being listened to without any real risk of having to change policy as a result, almost the opposite of a referendum ;)
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    HYUFD said:

    Pro Trump petition now getting a higher rate of new signatures than anti Trump petition for first time.
    About evens, actually. And the aggregate is 1,687k to 120k or 14:1. Even if it were to end up at 5:1 that would be humiliating for Trump and May.

    The British people overwhelmingly abhor Trump, but we didn't need a petition to tell us that. Dragging the Monarch into all this in the form of a state visit was a crass move by May.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    PlatoSaid said:

    :lol:

    Me too - I signed just to annoy the MSM who've been wanking over the other one for two days like it was a plane crash on Islington.
    It seems that the motivations for signing the opposing petitions were polar opposites. It is fun to wind the lefties up and watch them go.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,317

    About evens, actually. And the aggregate is 1,687k to 120k or 14:1. Even if it were to end up at 5:1 that would be humiliating for Trump and May.

    The British people overwhelmingly abhor Trump, but we didn't need a petition to tell us that. Dragging the Monarch into all this in the form of a state visit was a crass move by May.
    I don't think you can say that from the relative rates of the petitions!
  • Sandpit said:

  • Apologies, I messed up the quoting not having done it before.


    The pylons are intended to take the electricity from the proposed new power station in Copeland constituency. No pylons, no power station, no nuclear industry in Copeland, no point Jamie Reed resigning in the first place.

    And no, it isn't feasable to underground the entire length of the new electricty lines. It isn't wise to underground the entire Lake District section but they are going to do that.

    I sometimes think that urban dwellers imagine electricity just appears at the side of the house. As someone who lives on one side of a thirty mile ring main I know for a fact that the electricity industry in this country has more knowledge on what can be undergrounded and what can't than I do or, I hesitate to suggest, the vast majorty of those who object to the proposed Duddon pylons.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,183
    Weasley words from Chris Leslie.

    He would have tried harder. Good for him - luckily the people of this country decided:

    1) His party was not fit for govt in 2015
    2) To leave the EU.

    But he is going to whinge and moan because he would have tried harder to stay in the single market. The vanity is painful
  • pbr2013pbr2013 Posts: 649

    The bottom half of the UK looks like a big, drooping, angry carbuncle about to burst.

    https://twitter.com/Obey___/status/826431769964601345

    Is that remark exemplary of "civic nationalism"?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600

    About evens, actually. And the aggregate is 1,687k to 120k or 14:1. Even if it were to end up at 5:1 that would be humiliating for Trump and May.

    The British people overwhelmingly abhor Trump, but we didn't need a petition to tell us that. Dragging the Monarch into all this in the form of a state visit was a crass move by May.
    Nope despite an avalanche of leftie Trump hate in the media a pro Trump petition is now the top trending
This discussion has been closed.