politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Macron still in 3rd place in French Presidential polling but i
Comments
-
Why do I suspect that you're one of those who, after Trump walked on water, would complain that he couldn't swim.Chris_A said:0 -
Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy0 -
How are UKIP 15/1 to win Copeland?
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.128848952
I don't understand that one at all. Surely Copeland is a straight Lab/Con fight, given UKIP are heavily focused on winning Stoke - and the rural blue leavers are back in the tory fold.
Am I missing something?0 -
OT: The US winning hearts and minds at the UN. "Zere names will be on ze list".
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/world/americas/nikki-haley-united-nations.html?src=twr&smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur0 -
If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.0
-
As will the securityRoger said:Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy0 -
And I would supect that you're one of the ones who thinks he can walk on water.Tim_B said:
Why do I suspect that you're one of those who, after Trump walked on water, would complain that he couldn't swim.Chris_A said:
Lying matters. He does it daily. Either he doesn't know he's doing it, or he does it deliberately knowing that if he repeats it often enough some of his more asinine followers will start to believe the lies. This is not just a one-off slip, it's day after day after day.
Whatever, it is it's worrying either way.0 -
She's not much of a diplomat.John_M said:OT: The US winning hearts and minds at the UN. "Zere names will be on ze list".
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/world/americas/nikki-haley-united-nations.html?src=twr&smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur0 -
-
Much as I have been assured that no one is on tenterhooks, we do seem a bit too eager to have a special relationship. Not quite the English way of doing things but these are strange times.Jonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
0 -
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
0 -
After her predecessor's histrionic approach to diplomacy she has a low bar.nunu said:
She's not much of a diplomat.John_M said:OT: The US winning hearts and minds at the UN. "Zere names will be on ze list".
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/world/americas/nikki-haley-united-nations.html?src=twr&smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur0 -
Was there any talk of a trade deal in the press conference? That surely is the aspect of this visit that would be most beneficial to the UK.0
-
I don't know about that, but The Tories traded 100 down to 34 in Stoke today.. that is a crazy marketPong said:How are UKIP 15/1 to win Copeland?
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.128848952
I don't understand that one at all. Surely Copeland is a straight Lab/Con fight, given UKIP are heavily focused on winning Stoke - and the rural blue leavers are back in the tory fold.
Am I missing something?
0 -
Apparently 1 in 3 Californians wants to secede from the Union, many as a protest to Trump.
If California is excluded from the popular vote last November, Trump would have won the nationwide popular vote by over a million.
Clinton's majority in the state was almost 4.3 million. Her majority in NY state was almost 2.7 million.0 -
Goodness you must have suffered for the past 40 years. Poor you what a blessed relief for you now to see freedom in sight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
0 -
As I don't bet why is that significantisam said:
I don't know about that, but The Tories traded 100 down to 34 in Stoke today.. that is a crazy marketPong said:How are UKIP 15/1 to win Copeland?
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.128848952
I don't understand that one at all. Surely Copeland is a straight Lab/Con fight, given UKIP are heavily focused on winning Stoke - and the rural blue leavers are back in the tory fold.
Am I missing something?0 -
You obviously do but you're hardly typical. Is it me alone who resents the idea that the unelected hack Laura K suddenly purports to speak for the British people when asking her question. It certainly makes me cringe as yet again the Liberal establishment demonstrate why people like Trump win elections.Roger said:Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy0 -
why because a reporter asks a tough question?felix said:
You obviously do but you're hardly typical. Is it me alone who resents the idea that the unelected hack Laura K suddenly purports to speak for the British people when asking her question. It certainly makes me cringe as yet again the Liberal establishment demonstrate why people like Trump win elections.Roger said:Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy0 -
Ooh yes that's right Laura is now the enemy of the people.felix said:
You obviously do but you're hardly typical. Is it me alone who resents the idea that the unelected hack Laura K suddenly purports to speak for the British people when asking her question. It certainly makes me cringe as yet again the Liberal establishment demonstrate why people like Trump win elections.Roger said:Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy
Jeez I thought all we wanted was the right to eat straight bananas.0 -
Well its quite a big move on Betfair 100/1 to 33/1, although I guess its only saying they have gone form 1% chance of winning to 3%Big_G_NorthWales said:
As I don't bet why is that significantisam said:
I don't know about that, but The Tories traded 100 down to 34 in Stoke today.. that is a crazy marketPong said:How are UKIP 15/1 to win Copeland?
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.128848952
I don't understand that one at all. Surely Copeland is a straight Lab/Con fight, given UKIP are heavily focused on winning Stoke - and the rural blue leavers are back in the tory fold.
Am I missing something?
But Stoke is an amazing heat
Labour have traded 1.55 and 2.46
UKIP 1.74 and 4.9
LD 6.4 and 85
Cons 9.2 and 160
The shrewdest man in the world could have laid to 148% and backed at 63%!!0 -
and she's tripping over it.williamglenn said:
After her predecessor's histrionic approach to diplomacy she has a low bar.nunu said:
She's not much of a diplomat.John_M said:OT: The US winning hearts and minds at the UN. "Zere names will be on ze list".
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/world/americas/nikki-haley-united-nations.html?src=twr&smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur0 -
It isn't quite as impressive as it looks - it means that the Conservatives were given a 1% chance of winning Stoke Central and now they're given a 3% chance of winning.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As I don't bet why is that significantisam said:
I don't know about that, but The Tories traded 100 down to 34 in Stoke today.. that is a crazy marketPong said:How are UKIP 15/1 to win Copeland?
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.128848952
I don't understand that one at all. Surely Copeland is a straight Lab/Con fight, given UKIP are heavily focused on winning Stoke - and the rural blue leavers are back in the tory fold.
Am I missing something?
0 -
There's a lot of disappointed posters on pb tonight. On broadband you can hear the gritted teeth.0
-
No because she referenced it as if she was speaking for British people. She doesn't speak for me. Maybe you should try reading what I wrote before jumping on your high horse.nunu said:
why because a reporter asks a tough question?felix said:
You obviously do but you're hardly typical. Is it me alone who resents the idea that the unelected hack Laura K suddenly purports to speak for the British people when asking her question. It certainly makes me cringe as yet again the Liberal establishment demonstrate why people like Trump win elections.Roger said:Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy0 -
I voted remain but welcome the opportunity to make our own laws - if it is good enough for the Scots it is good enough for usTOPPING said:
Goodness you must have suffered for the past 40 years. Poor you what a blessed relief for you now to see freedom in sight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
0 -
- or only those that bend to the right.TOPPING said:
Ooh yes that's right Laura is now the enemy of the people.felix said:
You obviously do but you're hardly typical. Is it me alone who resents the idea that the unelected hack Laura K suddenly purports to speak for the British people when asking her question. It certainly makes me cringe as yet again the Liberal establishment demonstrate why people like Trump win elections.Roger said:Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy
Jeez I thought all we wanted was the right to eat straight bananas.0 -
Only tedious lefties...Roger said:Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy0 -
Thanks for that but it is only a small move in winning the seat but big in bettingisam said:
Well its quite a big move on Betfair 100/1 to 33/1, although I guess its only saying they have gone form 1% chance of winning to 3%Big_G_NorthWales said:
As I don't bet why is that significantisam said:
I don't know about that, but The Tories traded 100 down to 34 in Stoke today.. that is a crazy marketPong said:How are UKIP 15/1 to win Copeland?
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.128848952
I don't understand that one at all. Surely Copeland is a straight Lab/Con fight, given UKIP are heavily focused on winning Stoke - and the rural blue leavers are back in the tory fold.
Am I missing something?
But Stoke is an amazing heat
Labour have traded 1.55 and 2.46
UKIP 1.74 and 4.9
LD 6.4 and 85
Cons 9.2 and 160
The shrewdest man in the world could have laid to 148% and backed at 63%!!0 -
Not an enemy of the people just a reporter hack after another award. It obviously riles you no end that people in both the USA and the UK gave you the 2 fingers. Suck it up.TOPPING said:
Ooh yes that's right Laura is now the enemy of the people.felix said:
You obviously do but you're hardly typical. Is it me alone who resents the idea that the unelected hack Laura K suddenly purports to speak for the British people when asking her question. It certainly makes me cringe as yet again the Liberal establishment demonstrate why people like Trump win elections.Roger said:Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy
Jeez I thought all we wanted was the right to eat straight bananas.0 -
Excellent finally you can spread your wings and be all you can be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but welcome the opportunity to make our own laws - if it is good enough for the Scots it is good enough for usTOPPING said:
Goodness you must have suffered for the past 40 years. Poor you what a blessed relief for you now to see freedom in sight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
0 -
The EU fixed that issue years ago. We can also eat misshapen aubergines, deformed plums and asymmetrical apples. Hail Juncker!TOPPING said:
Ooh yes that's right Laura is now the enemy of the people.felix said:
You obviously do but you're hardly typical. Is it me alone who resents the idea that the unelected hack Laura K suddenly purports to speak for the British people when asking her question. It certainly makes me cringe as yet again the Liberal establishment demonstrate why people like Trump win elections.Roger said:Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy
Jeez I thought all we wanted was the right to eat straight bananas.0 -
Only as cringeworthy as you waxing lyrical about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' with the EU, which we voted to leave.Roger said:Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy0 -
@ThreeQuidder
Roger
"Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy'
Only tedious lefties...'
Special Relationship only allowed when it's a Labour PM & Democrat president.
0 -
Think I have already done that in my 73 years having travelled round the world 10 times in the last 10 years, have a great family and four grandchildren, and am retired in a beautiful Welsh Victorian Seaside TownTOPPING said:
Excellent finally you can spread your wings and be all you can be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but welcome the opportunity to make our own laws - if it is good enough for the Scots it is good enough for usTOPPING said:
Goodness you must have suffered for the past 40 years. Poor you what a blessed relief for you now to see freedom in sight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
0 -
As a leftie, I liked the Cameron/Obama relationship (and found Gordon's desperation towards Obama excruciating to watch).johnzims said:@ThreeQuidder
Roger
"Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy'
Only tedious lefties...'
Special Relationship only allowed when it's a Labour PM & Democrat president.0 -
-
May you live in interesting times?JohnO said:
Glad it wasn't just me who drew that conclusion. Trump could indeed be a transformative President - he is tearing up the old rule book of the US's place in the world and how it sees itself. My guess for the future is that he will secure some very big wins through to the medium term but hubris will, as hubris always does, will mean that he will overreach himself at some point and probably disastrously so. But on what?SeanT said:Trump did fine there. He was actually quite funny in places.
Intriguing.
Never seen anything like it in over 40 years observing politics. What's that Chinese curse?
Trump is perhaps reminiscent of the spectre of President Goldwater in 1964. I remember my parents talking nervously about it, only two years after the Cuban missile crisis. This time the nightmare's come true.0 -
I have a theory: the happy man is the man who knows what he cannot control, and is OK with it.0
-
Chris_A
6:55PM
Well picked up. Strange none of the press did.0 -
Of course it is cringeworthy, but it's traditional; see Private Eye cartoons of Wilson licking LBJ's arse and Blair fellating GWB. We have been banging on about it for so long that to cease to bang on about it would be a hostile diplomatic move in its own right. To say that we are the poor relations would of course be more accurate.Roger said:Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy0 -
https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/825065055632912384scotslass said:Chris_A
6:55PM
Well picked up. Strange none of the press did.0 -
To be fair you're one of the most balanced 'lefties' on hereThe_Apocalypse said:
As a leftie, I liked the Cameron/Obama relationship (and found Gordon's desperation towards Obama excruciating to watch).johnzims said:@ThreeQuidder
Roger
"Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy'
Only tedious lefties...'
Special Relationship only allowed when it's a Labour PM & Democrat president.
0 -
Actually I think it was Trump who looked quite nervous and actually for once sounded more reasonable than his usual bombast. Maybe he is waking up to realityScott_P said:0 -
12 months ago - who would have predicted either May or Trump?0
-
Nah, you've probably got mice.frpenkridge said:There's a lot of disappointed posters on pb tonight. On broadband you can hear the gritted teeth.
0 -
Perhaps a loose variant of:rcs1000 said:I have a theory: the happy man is the man who knows what he cannot control, and is OK with it.
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."0 -
Don't be so sensitive. She was right with her implication many people in Britain will be concerned about his announcements. Chill.felix said:
No because she referenced it as if she was speaking for British people. She doesn't speak for me. Maybe you should try reading what I wrote before jumping on your high horse.nunu said:
why because a reporter asks a tough question?felix said:
You obviously do but you're hardly typical. Is it me alone who resents the idea that the unelected hack Laura K suddenly purports to speak for the British people when asking her question. It certainly makes me cringe as yet again the Liberal establishment demonstrate why people like Trump win elections.Roger said:Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy0 -
OMG. Not Llandudno?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Think I have already done that in my 73 years having travelled round the world 10 times in the last 10 years, have a great family and four grandchildren, and am retired in a beautiful Welsh Victorian Seaside TownTOPPING said:
Excellent finally you can spread your wings and be all you can be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but welcome the opportunity to make our own laws - if it is good enough for the Scots it is good enough for usTOPPING said:
Goodness you must have suffered for the past 40 years. Poor you what a blessed relief for you now to see freedom in sight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
0 -
In a sense I disagree. I think one should die happy, but humble, realizing what he has accomplished, but unhappy for the hard questions he has been trying to find answers to, and failed, so far.rcs1000 said:I have a theory: the happy man is the man who knows what he cannot control, and is OK with it.
0 -
The presser will be gone and forgotten in less than 24 hours. In the mean time, it's something to keep Twitter in its perpetual state of righteous indignation. Ce n'est rien.nunu said:
Don't be so sensitive. She was right with her implication many people in Britain will be concerned about his announcements. Chill.felix said:
No because she referenced it as if she was speaking for British people. She doesn't speak for me. Maybe you should try reading what I wrote before jumping on your high horse.nunu said:
why because a reporter asks a tough question?felix said:
You obviously do but you're hardly typical. Is it me alone who resents the idea that the unelected hack Laura K suddenly purports to speak for the British people when asking her question. It certainly makes me cringe as yet again the Liberal establishment demonstrate why people like Trump win elections.Roger said:Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy0 -
It is not her place to speak for the British people - that's why we have elections - I know that many on the left are very frustrated about that at the moment but there you go. The world was better when the press reported the news instead of always trying to make it.nunu said:
Don't be so sensitive. She was right with her implication many people in Britain will be concerned about his announcements. Chill.felix said:
No because she referenced it as if she was speaking for British people. She doesn't speak for me. Maybe you should try reading what I wrote before jumping on your high horse.nunu said:
why because a reporter asks a tough question?felix said:
You obviously do but you're hardly typical. Is it me alone who resents the idea that the unelected hack Laura K suddenly purports to speak for the British people when asking her question. It certainly makes me cringe as yet again the Liberal establishment demonstrate why people like Trump win elections.Roger said:Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy0 -
He did say beautiful.......Chris_A said:
OMG. Not Llandudno?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Think I have already done that in my 73 years having travelled round the world 10 times in the last 10 years, have a great family and four grandchildren, and am retired in a beautiful Welsh Victorian Seaside TownTOPPING said:
Excellent finally you can spread your wings and be all you can be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but welcome the opportunity to make our own laws - if it is good enough for the Scots it is good enough for usTOPPING said:
Goodness you must have suffered for the past 40 years. Poor you what a blessed relief for you now to see freedom in sight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
0 -
Well as long as Robert knew he shouldn't change the sentiment, but it was cool to change the words, he was ok!John_M said:
Perhaps a loose variant of:rcs1000 said:I have a theory: the happy man is the man who knows what he cannot control, and is OK with it.
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."0 -
The beautiful Queen of resorts with so much to offerChris_A said:
OMG. Not Llandudno?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Think I have already done that in my 73 years having travelled round the world 10 times in the last 10 years, have a great family and four grandchildren, and am retired in a beautiful Welsh Victorian Seaside TownTOPPING said:
Excellent finally you can spread your wings and be all you can be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but welcome the opportunity to make our own laws - if it is good enough for the Scots it is good enough for usTOPPING said:
Goodness you must have suffered for the past 40 years. Poor you what a blessed relief for you now to see freedom in sight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
0 -
0
-
When I met Jenny, we seriously considered Llandudno, it's only three hours from London. There are worse commutes. We settled for staying in Monmouthshire because: Haberdashers, and it's a two hour journey. I'm very envious of you, it's a lovely area.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The beautiful Queen of resorts with so much to offerChris_A said:
OMG. Not Llandudno?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Think I have already done that in my 73 years having travelled round the world 10 times in the last 10 years, have a great family and four grandchildren, and am retired in a beautiful Welsh Victorian Seaside TownTOPPING said:
Excellent finally you can spread your wings and be all you can be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but welcome the opportunity to make our own laws - if it is good enough for the Scots it is good enough for usTOPPING said:
Goodness you must have suffered for the past 40 years. Poor you what a blessed relief for you now to see freedom in sight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
0 -
I was going to suggest Barry Island.Tim_B said:
He did say beautiful.......Chris_A said:
OMG. Not Llandudno?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Think I have already done that in my 73 years having travelled round the world 10 times in the last 10 years, have a great family and four grandchildren, and am retired in a beautiful Welsh Victorian Seaside TownTOPPING said:
Excellent finally you can spread your wings and be all you can be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but welcome the opportunity to make our own laws - if it is good enough for the Scots it is good enough for usTOPPING said:
Goodness you must have suffered for the past 40 years. Poor you what a blessed relief for you now to see freedom in sight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
0 -
Decades ago I saw a cartoon with Enoch Powell in that very posture saying racist-ly "and some of them are this big". I can't remember what that 'toon had him actually referring to.Roger said:Private Eye's next cover?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/387678020 -
I wonder what Trump did to her just before they came into the picture. Well, his boasts about women.....................Scott_P said:0 -
It'll never, ever, beat this "mis-speaking": https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/05/23/recalling-hillary-clintons-claim-of-landing-under-sniper-fire-in-bosnia/?utm_term=.b0606948328fIshmael_Z said:
A killer point. If he has not resigned by this time tomorrow, impeachment is nailed on. Bet accordingly.Chris_A said:Trump still can't stop himself from lying though. He wasn't at Turnberry on 22nd June. He only arrived in Scotland and the 23rd and visited there on the 24th.
0 -
Macron has to get to the final two first and at the moment all the polls have it Le Pen v Fillon in the run off. Given Macron's statement today following May's meeting with Trump that the UK was no a 'vassal state' of the U.S. post Brexit UK should certainly hope that Fillon or even Le Pen win the French Presidency when Brexit talks start, not the EU Federalist Macron
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN15B16C?client=ms-android-orange-gb0 -
I thought it was a fair enough question, and I'm not overly minded to care too much about the president of another country's views.nunu said:
Don't be so sensitive. She was right with her implication many people in Britain will be concerned about his announcements. Chill.felix said:
No because she referenced it as if she was speaking for British people. She doesn't speak for me. Maybe you should try reading what I wrote before jumping on your high horse.nunu said:
why because a reporter asks a tough question?felix said:
You obviously do but you're hardly typical. Is it me alone who resents the idea that the unelected hack Laura K suddenly purports to speak for the British people when asking her question. It certainly makes me cringe as yet again the Liberal establishment demonstrate why people like Trump win elections.Roger said:Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy0 -
Hope May didn't crush his tiny hands.0
-
I think everyone's become overly sensitive.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I thought it was a fair enough question, and I'm not overly minded to care too much about the president of another country's views.nunu said:
Don't be so sensitive. She was right with her implication many people in Britain will be concerned about his announcements. Chill.felix said:
No because she referenced it as if she was speaking for British people. She doesn't speak for me. Maybe you should try reading what I wrote before jumping on your high horse.nunu said:
why because a reporter asks a tough question?felix said:
You obviously do but you're hardly typical. Is it me alone who resents the idea that the unelected hack Laura K suddenly purports to speak for the British people when asking her question. It certainly makes me cringe as yet again the Liberal establishment demonstrate why people like Trump win elections.Roger said:Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy0 -
Darren Bent is Jeremy Corbyn0
-
Is that Madame Tussauds?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Actually I think it was Trump who looked quite nervous and actually for once sounded more reasonable than his usual bombast. Maybe he is waking up to realityScott_P said:0 -
It is quite fabulous.John_M said:
When I met Jenny, we seriously considered Llandudno, it's only three hours from London. There are worse commutes. We settled for staying in Monmouthshire because: Haberdashers, and it's a two hour journey. I'm very envious of you, it's a lovely area.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The beautiful Queen of resorts with so much to offerChris_A said:
OMG. Not Llandudno?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Think I have already done that in my 73 years having travelled round the world 10 times in the last 10 years, have a great family and four grandchildren, and am retired in a beautiful Welsh Victorian Seaside TownTOPPING said:
Excellent finally you can spread your wings and be all you can be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but welcome the opportunity to make our own laws - if it is good enough for the Scots it is good enough for usTOPPING said:
Goodness you must have suffered for the past 40 years. Poor you what a blessed relief for you now to see freedom in sight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
As we drive over the Little Orme and see the wonderful arc of the bay with it's Victorian Hotels and then the Great Orme standing high we are just so grateful that we have lived and worked here for over 52 years0 -
Tip for editors: stop assuming leaders of foreign elites will appreciate it as a huge favour if they're allowed to meet the "queen" and get their photos taken with her in public.
From an editorial in the Independent:
"So far as a deal is concerned, Mr Trump wangled a public invitation for a state visit to the UK later this year, complete with the usual pomp, ceremony and photo opportunities with the Queen."
He "wangled" it. What a favour he is receiving. He doesn't deserve it, but we know how the little darling likes it. How we smiled as we let him have it. Just don't ask us a second time, mind! And we'll consider letting you ride a horse in Windsor Great Park if you're a good boy!
Who is laughing at whom? Who is patronising whom?0 -
The bungling burgonAlastairMeeks said:Hypothetically, if Jeremy Corbyn were run over by a canary tomorrow, who would be the next Labour leader? Who would the erstwhile Corbyn supporters coalesce around?
0 -
I used to live in St Asaph and often kicked about all along that coast. Underrated part of the country in my view.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is quite fabulous.John_M said:
When I met Jenny, we seriously considered Llandudno, it's only three hours from London. There are worse commutes. We settled for staying in Monmouthshire because: Haberdashers, and it's a two hour journey. I'm very envious of you, it's a lovely area.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The beautiful Queen of resorts with so much to offerChris_A said:
OMG. Not Llandudno?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Think I have already done that in my 73 years having travelled round the world 10 times in the last 10 years, have a great family and four grandchildren, and am retired in a beautiful Welsh Victorian Seaside TownTOPPING said:
Excellent finally you can spread your wings and be all you can be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but welcome the opportunity to make our own laws - if it is good enough for the Scots it is good enough for usTOPPING said:
Goodness you must have suffered for the past 40 years. Poor you what a blessed relief for you now to see freedom in sight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
As we drive over the Little Orme and see the wonderful arc of the bay with it's Victorian Hotels and then the Great Orme standing high we are just so grateful that we have lived and worked here for over 52 years0 -
Wouldn't get nominated.Scrapheap_as_was said:
The bungling burgonAlastairMeeks said:Hypothetically, if Jeremy Corbyn were run over by a canary tomorrow, who would be the next Labour leader? Who would the erstwhile Corbyn supporters coalesce around?
0 -
We might be related!Big_G_NorthWales said:
The beautiful Queen of resorts with so much to offerChris_A said:
OMG. Not Llandudno?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Think I have already done that in my 73 years having travelled round the world 10 times in the last 10 years, have a great family and four grandchildren, and am retired in a beautiful Welsh Victorian Seaside TownTOPPING said:
Excellent finally you can spread your wings and be all you can be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but welcome the opportunity to make our own laws - if it is good enough for the Scots it is good enough for usTOPPING said:
Goodness you must have suffered for the past 40 years. Poor you what a blessed relief for you now to see freedom in sight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
0 -
Actually quite a few on the US chanels are commenting that he looked nervous and came over much betterlogical_song said:
Is that Madame Tussauds?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Actually I think it was Trump who looked quite nervous and actually for once sounded more reasonable than his usual bombast. Maybe he is waking up to realityScott_P said:0 -
Le Pen is mightier than the ...0
-
Rushing to a foreign country that keeps military bases in Britain to praise its new head of government shortly after his inauguration isn't pathetic? Funny how no-one does it when there's a new prime minister in Britain. Vive la France!HYUFD said:Macron has to get to the final two first and at the moment all the polls have it Le Pen v Fillon in the run off. Given Macron's statement today following May's meeting with Trump that the UK was no a 'vassal state' of the U.S. post Brexit UK should certainly hope that Fillon or even Le Pen win the French Presidency when Brexit talks start, not the EU Federalist Macron
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN15B16C?client=ms-android-orange-gb0 -
The Bronze Age copper mine on the Great Orme is the most remarkable & astonishing thing I have visited in the UK over the last decade.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is quite fabulous.John_M said:
When I met Jenny, we seriously considered Llandudno, it's only three hours from London. There are worse commutes. We settled for staying in Monmouthshire because: Haberdashers, and it's a two hour journey. I'm very envious of you, it's a lovely area.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The beautiful Queen of resorts with so much to offerChris_A said:
OMG. Not Llandudno?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Think I have already done that in my 73 years having travelled round the world 10 times in the last 10 years, have a great family and four grandchildren, and am retired in a beautiful Welsh Victorian Seaside TownTOPPING said:
Excellent finally you can spread your wings and be all you can be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but welcome the opportunity to make our own laws - if it is good enough for the Scots it is good enough for usTOPPING said:
Goodness you must have suffered for the past 40 years. Poor you what a blessed relief for you now to see freedom in sight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
As we drive over the Little Orme and see the wonderful arc of the bay with it's Victorian Hotels and then the Great Orme standing high we are just so grateful that we have lived and worked here for over 52 years
0 -
Yes. I've always found it so. Would still be if under other circumstances it was Cameron standing with Clinton. It's just a silly thing that gets trotted out.Roger said:Well done Laura K. I think she asked a question the majority of the country want answered. As for meeting the Queen....the demos will be HUGE!!
Does no one find talking about our 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP' rather cringeworthy0 -
The Independent of course is so Trump and Brexit mindedDromedary said:Tip for editors: stop assuming leaders of foreign elites will appreciate it as a huge favour if they're allowed to meet the "queen" and get their photos taken with her in public.
From an editorial in the Independent:
"So far as a deal is concerned, Mr Trump wangled a public invitation for a state visit to the UK later this year, complete with the usual pomp, ceremony and photo opportunities with the Queen."
He "wangled" it. What a favour he is receiving. He doesn't deserve it, but we know how the little darling likes it. How we smiled as we let him have it. Just don't ask us a second time, mind! And we'll consider letting you ride a horse in Windsor Great Park if you're a good boy!
Who is laughing at whom? Who is patronising whom?0 -
Back from the dead!Scrapheap_as_was said:Darren Bent is Jeremy Corbyn
0 -
Yes it is our secretJohn_M said:
I used to live in St Asaph and often kicked about all along that coast. Underrated part of the country in my view.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is quite fabulous.John_M said:
When I met Jenny, we seriously considered Llandudno, it's only three hours from London. There are worse commutes. We settled for staying in Monmouthshire because: Haberdashers, and it's a two hour journey. I'm very envious of you, it's a lovely area.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The beautiful Queen of resorts with so much to offerChris_A said:
OMG. Not Llandudno?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Think I have already done that in my 73 years having travelled round the world 10 times in the last 10 years, have a great family and four grandchildren, and am retired in a beautiful Welsh Victorian Seaside TownTOPPING said:
Excellent finally you can spread your wings and be all you can be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but welcome the opportunity to make our own laws - if it is good enough for the Scots it is good enough for usTOPPING said:
Goodness you must have suffered for the past 40 years. Poor you what a blessed relief for you now to see freedom in sight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
As we drive over the Little Orme and see the wonderful arc of the bay with it's Victorian Hotels and then the Great Orme standing high we are just so grateful that we have lived and worked here for over 52 years0 -
I used to go to school in Penmaenmawr. I used to spend alternate Sundays on day release around the Great Orme. What happened to the Gogarth Hotel Big G?John_M said:
I used to live in St Asaph and often kicked about all along that coast. Underrated part of the country in my view.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is quite fabulous.John_M said:
When I met Jenny, we seriously considered Llandudno, it's only three hours from London. There are worse commutes. We settled for staying in Monmouthshire because: Haberdashers, and it's a two hour journey. I'm very envious of you, it's a lovely area.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The beautiful Queen of resorts with so much to offerChris_A said:
OMG. Not Llandudno?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Think I have already done that in my 73 years having travelled round the world 10 times in the last 10 years, have a great family and four grandchildren, and am retired in a beautiful Welsh Victorian Seaside TownTOPPING said:
Excellent finally you can spread your wings and be all you can be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but welcome the opportunity to make our own laws - if it is good enough for the Scots it is good enough for usTOPPING said:
Goodness you must have suffered for the past 40 years. Poor you what a blessed relief for you now to see freedom in sight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
As we drive over the Little Orme and see the wonderful arc of the bay with it's Victorian Hotels and then the Great Orme standing high we are just so grateful that we have lived and worked here for over 52 years0 -
Or a woman grabbing onto him in case he tries to grab somewhere else?Scott_P said:
You have to ask, was it the chivalrous act of a gentleman helping a woman who has a cold and might be unsteady, or was it a strong woman helping a geriatric old man down the stairs...Jonathan said:Hope May didn't crush his tiny hands.
0 -
You are so lucky. I will always remember climbing to the top of the Great Orme and looking west across the mouth of the Conwy at the walled town, shafts of light breaking through the clouds. I could have been in Middle Earth!Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is quite fabulous.John_M said:
When I met Jenny, we seriously considered Llandudno, it's only three hours from London. There are worse commutes. We settled for staying in Monmouthshire because: Haberdashers, and it's a two hour journey. I'm very envious of you, it's a lovely area.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The beautiful Queen of resorts with so much to offerChris_A said:
OMG. Not Llandudno?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Think I have already done that in my 73 years having travelled round the world 10 times in the last 10 years, have a great family and four grandchildren, and am retired in a beautiful Welsh Victorian Seaside TownTOPPING said:
Excellent finally you can spread your wings and be all you can be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but welcome the opportunity to make our own laws - if it is good enough for the Scots it is good enough for usTOPPING said:
Goodness you must have suffered for the past 40 years. Poor you what a blessed relief for you now to see freedom in sight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
As we drive over the Little Orme and see the wonderful arc of the bay with it's Victorian Hotels and then the Great Orme standing high we are just so grateful that we have lived and worked here for over 52 years0 -
Do you mean the hotel on top of the Orme?Roger said:
I used to go to school in Penmaenmawr. I used to spend alternate Sundays on day release around the Great Orme. What happened to the Gogarth Hotel Big G?John_M said:
I used to live in St Asaph and often kicked about all along that coast. Underrated part of the country in my view.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is quite fabulous.John_M said:
When I met Jenny, we seriously considered Llandudno, it's only three hours from London. There are worse commutes. We settled for staying in Monmouthshire because: Haberdashers, and it's a two hour journey. I'm very envious of you, it's a lovely area.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The beautiful Queen of resorts with so much to offerChris_A said:
OMG. Not Llandudno?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Think I have already done that in my 73 years having travelled round the world 10 times in the last 10 years, have a great family and four grandchildren, and am retired in a beautiful Welsh Victorian Seaside TownTOPPING said:
Excellent finally you can spread your wings and be all you can be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but welcome the opportunity to make our own laws - if it is good enough for the Scots it is good enough for usTOPPING said:
Goodness you must have suffered for the past 40 years. Poor you what a blessed relief for you now to see freedom in sight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
As we drive over the Little Orme and see the wonderful arc of the bay with it's Victorian Hotels and then the Great Orme standing high we are just so grateful that we have lived and worked here for over 52 years
0 -
A woman always wants to know where Trump has his tiny hands....Scott_P said:0 -
The U.S. is the most powerful nation on earth and the largest single destination for UK exports, of course May accepted the invite of the POTUS. It is now abundantly clear that Macron is a Junker stooge, even worse than Hollande from a UK perspective and would be an even more anti British French President than Dr Gaulle. Vive La France indeed but hopefully Fillon or even Le Pen's France, we should certainly hope Macron loses this election before the Brexit talks beginDromedary said:
Rushing to a foreign country that keeps military bases in Britain to praise its new head of government shortly after his inauguration isn't pathetic? Funny how no-one does it when there's a new prime minister in Britain. Vive la France!HYUFD said:Macron has to get to the final two first and at the moment all the polls have it Le Pen v Fillon in the run off. Given Macron's statement today following May's meeting with Trump that the UK was no a 'vassal state' of the U.S. post Brexit UK should certainly hope that Fillon or even Le Pen win the French Presidency when Brexit talks start, not the EU Federalist Macron
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN15B16C?client=ms-android-orange-gb0 -
It's pretty obvious Trump likely the pomp and circumstance of meeting the Queen. Great for his ego.Dromedary said:Tip for editors: stop assuming leaders of foreign elites will appreciate it as a huge favour if they're allowed to meet the "queen" and get their photos taken with her in public.
From an editorial in the Independent:
"So far as a deal is concerned, Mr Trump wangled a public invitation for a state visit to the UK later this year, complete with the usual pomp, ceremony and photo opportunities with the Queen."
He "wangled" it. What a favour he is receiving. He doesn't deserve it, but we know how the little darling likes it. How we smiled as we let him have it. Just don't ask us a second time, mind! And we'll consider letting you ride a horse in Windsor Great Park if you're a good boy!
Who is laughing at whom? Who is patronising whom?
Sure, other people might find it a drag. But it's a very cheap bargaining chip for May!0 -
Talking of whichfoxinsoxuk said:A woman always wants to know where Trump has his tiny hands....
https://twitter.com/joabaldwin/status/8250511885507870720 -
The Gogarth Abbey, the holiday home of Alice Liddell, the little girl who inspired Alice in Wonderland, was demolished and turned into luxury flats in 2004. Sad reallyChris_A said:
Do you mean the hotel on top of the Orme?Roger said:
I used to go to school in Penmaenmawr. I used to spend alternate Sundays on day release around the Great Orme. What happened to the Gogarth Hotel Big G?John_M said:
I used to live in St Asaph and often kicked about all along that coast. Underrated part of the country in my view.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is quite fabulous.John_M said:
When I met Jenny, we seriously considered Llandudno, it's only three hours from London. There are worse commutes. We settled for staying in Monmouthshire because: Haberdashers, and it's a two hour journey. I'm very envious of you, it's a lovely area.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The beautiful Queen of resorts with so much to offerChris_A said:
OMG. Not Llandudno?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Think I have already done that in my 73 years having travelled round the world 10 times in the last 10 years, have a great family and four grandchildren, and am retired in a beautiful Welsh Victorian Seaside TownTOPPING said:
Excellent finally you can spread your wings and be all you can be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but welcome the opportunity to make our own laws - if it is good enough for the Scots it is good enough for usTOPPING said:
Goodness you must have suffered for the past 40 years. Poor you what a blessed relief for you now to see freedom in sight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
As we drive over the Little Orme and see the wonderful arc of the bay with it's Victorian Hotels and then the Great Orme standing high we are just so grateful that we have lived and worked here for over 52 years0 -
0
-
Faisal Islam is Scott PScott_P said:0 -
Correction - was demolished in 2008 and is waiting planning for luxury flats but still sadBig_G_NorthWales said:
The Gogarth Abbey, the holiday home of Alice Liddell, the little girl who inspired Alice in Wonderland, was demolished and turned into luxury flats in 2004. Sad reallyChris_A said:
Do you mean the hotel on top of the Orme?Roger said:
I used to go to school in Penmaenmawr. I used to spend alternate Sundays on day release around the Great Orme. What happened to the Gogarth Hotel Big G?John_M said:
I used to live in St Asaph and often kicked about all along that coast. Underrated part of the country in my view.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is quite fabulous.John_M said:
When I met Jenny, we seriously considered Llandudno, it's only three hours from London. There are worse commutes. We settled for staying in Monmouthshire because: Haberdashers, and it's a two hour journey. I'm very envious of you, it's a lovely area.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The beautiful Queen of resorts with so much to offerChris_A said:
OMG. Not Llandudno?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Think I have already done that in my 73 years having travelled round the world 10 times in the last 10 years, have a great family and four grandchildren, and am retired in a beautiful Welsh Victorian Seaside TownTOPPING said:
Excellent finally you can spread your wings and be all you can be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but welcome the opportunity to make our own laws - if it is good enough for the Scots it is good enough for usTOPPING said:
Goodness you must have suffered for the past 40 years. Poor you what a blessed relief for you now to see freedom in sight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Speak for yourself. It is because we are confident we want to break free, have our own laws, contol our borders and strike trade deals with whoever we want, not some failing undemocratic blocJonathan said:If we were confident we wouldn't need a special relationship. Then again we wouldn't need Brexit either.
As we drive over the Little Orme and see the wonderful arc of the bay with it's Victorian Hotels and then the Great Orme standing high we are just so grateful that we have lived and worked here for over 52 years0 -
His lies are all so weird as often needless and he doesn't give himself the usual politician "out"...if he had said he predicted brexit and arrived as it came true...he gets the message out just the same while being able to debate the exactness of that.Scott_P said:0 -
Not lies !FrancisUrquhart said:His lies are all so weird as often needless and he doesn't give himself the usual politician "out"...if he had said he predicted brexit and arrived as it came true...you could debate the exactness of that.
Alternative facts...
0
