David_Evershed said:

FormerToryOrange said:

Haven't read through all comments, so not sure if this has been asked already, but:

Why has this site descended to the point where drivel from Alastair Meeks is posted as site content, rather than merely appearing in the comments?

I don't agree with Alastair Meeks but he writes thoughtful articles that are worth consideration.

You say that but already @FormerToryOrange has, with his beautifully-wrought question, brought verve and acuity to our lives.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

TGOHF said:

EU infighting has started already ... oh dear..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/01/19/europes-ideological-civil-war-laid-bare-davos/

"Europe's leaders lashed out at each other in Davos in an inflamed dispute over how to stop the EU collapsing, laying bare the festering divisions that will plague the European project long after British withdrawal."

""The whole idea of an ever-closer Europe has gone, it's buried," said Dutch premier Mark Rutte, dismissing calls for full political union as a dangerous romantic fantasy.

"The fastest way to dismantle the EU is to continue talking about a step-by-step move towards some sort of superstate," he said at the World Economic Forum."

This is why the EU should have been ready to offer the UK absolutely anything to stay in, once we leave and show it's not the end of the world that trickle of small stones at the top of the mountain will turn into an unstoppable force. The problem for them is that May hasn't asked for anything particularly unreasonable, there is no way for the EU "punish" the UK by withholding single market membership since we don't want it.

In the end, though it's not my most favoured solution, the move to leave the single market is strategically sound and the clarity offered by this position is better than the alternative of promising something that isn't within the gift of the government to deliver.

All in all, having had a couple of days to mull it over, I understand why the PM has moved to take the UK out of the single market. I also think that if a country leaves the single market and exceeds expectations then the single market is doomed in the long term. It doesn't hold any value if a nation can leave and prosper more out of it than within it.

Theresa May seems to have become an overnight success with her London and Davos speeches wildly acclaimed and she is suddenly looking like a World leader just as Obama leaves the stage.

The poll today supporting her leaving the single market and her negotiating stance is supported in all regions of the Country including Scotland and surprisingly London.

There is a tide moving her way and it looks as if those who want to remain will need to realise that we have passed the tipping point of staying in the single market and move on themselves.

May is a bit like George Osborne in 2015

TGOHF said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

TGOHF said:

EU infighting has started already ... oh dear..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/01/19/europes-ideological-civil-war-laid-bare-davos/

"Europe's leaders lashed out at each other in Davos in an inflamed dispute over how to stop the EU collapsing, laying bare the festering divisions that will plague the European project long after British withdrawal."

""The whole idea of an ever-closer Europe has gone, it's buried," said Dutch premier Mark Rutte, dismissing calls for full political union as a dangerous romantic fantasy.

"The fastest way to dismantle the EU is to continue talking about a step-by-step move towards some sort of superstate," he said at the World Economic Forum."

This is why the EU should have been ready to offer the UK absolutely anything to stay in, once we leave and show it's not the end of the world that trickle of small stones at the top of the mountain will turn into an unstoppable force. The problem for them is that May hasn't asked for anything particularly unreasonable, there is no way for the EU "punish" the UK by withholding single market membership since we don't want it.

In the end, though it's not my most favoured solution, the move to leave the single market is strategically sound and the clarity offered by this position is better than the alternative of promising something that isn't within the gift of the government to deliver.

All in all, having had a couple of days to mull it over, I understand why the PM has moved to take the UK out of the single market. I also think that if a country leaves the single market and exceeds expectations then the single market is doomed in the long term. It doesn't hold any value if a nation can leave and prosper more out of it than within it.

Theresa May seems to have become an overnight success with her London and Davos speeches wildly acclaimed and she is suddenly looking like a World leader just as Obama leaves the stage.

The poll today supporting her leaving the single market and her negotiating stance is supported in all regions of the Country including Scotland and surprisingly London.

There is a tide moving her way and it looks as if those who want to remain will need to realise that we have passed the tipping point of staying in the single market and move on themselves.

May is a bit like George Osborne in 2015

Within 18 months of the end of her political career ? A bold claim...

Things are volatile. May could persist, but it's worth remembering that pretty recently others were settling in for a long stint at the top.

SouthamObserver said:

PlatoSaid said:

Spiked
Brendan O'Neill on how Obama got away with it https://t.co/sv9ThEmkUw

Poor old Brendan - struggling to accept that Obama is leaving office with a 60% approval rating and the thanks of most Americans, while Trump enters the White House with a falling approval rating and most Americans opposed to him. Oh well, snowflakes will be snowflakes.

I think a number of Trump supporters are struggling with this actually. The Obamas are leaving on a real high, with many people holding them in incredibly high esteem. Trump, if he carries on the way he has is could make 2020 a real battle for the White House.

RobD said:

Jonathan said:

Things are volatile. May could persist, but it's worth remembering that pretty recently others were settling in for a long stint at the top.

The risk for her is indeed high. I wonder how she'll go down in history if the whole thing is a reasonable success.

£5 note

RobD said:

Jonathan said:

RobD said:

Jonathan said:

Things are volatile. May could persist, but it's worth remembering that pretty recently others were settling in for a long stint at the top.

The risk for her is indeed high. I wonder how she'll go down in history if the whole thing is a reasonable success.

£5 note

The €5 note if things go less well...

LOL

RobD said:

Jonathan said:

RobD said:

Jonathan said:

Things are volatile. May could persist, but it's worth remembering that pretty recently others were settling in for a long stint at the top.

The risk for her is indeed high. I wonder how she'll go down in history if the whole thing is a reasonable success.

£5 note

The €5 note if things go less well...

*applause* *crowd go wild*

If things go badly you'll have Faage on the £5,000,000 note, which won't buy him a pint.

Jonathan said:

If things go badly you'll have Faage on the £5,000,000 note, which won't buy him a pint.

Imagine this on your money:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClsIZoqVEAAbZap.jpg

As they say on Crimewatch, don't have nightmares!

Meanwhile, on the subject of Trump I just read this article: http://www.vox.com/first-person/2017/1/18/14300952/donald-trump-vote-regret

It's very interesting. I wonder how many Trump voters will come to feel the same as Underwood in the next four years.

Mr Meeks musings of late have been of the glass half empty variety.

Going by my Facebook friends, Surrey have their work cut out to win that referendum.

tlg86 said:

Going by my Facebook friends, Surrey have their work cut out to win that referendum.

I was trying to look into this earlier. Have they been raising council tax by the highest allowed amount each year since 2010? Seems odd to lump it all into one year.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

TGOHF said:

EU infighting has started already ... oh dear..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/01/19/europes-ideological-civil-war-laid-bare-davos/

"Europe's leaders lashed out at each other in Davos in an inflamed dispute over how to stop the EU collapsing, laying bare the festering divisions that will plague the European project long after British withdrawal."

""The whole idea of an ever-closer Europe has gone, it's buried," said Dutch premier Mark Rutte, dismissing calls for full political union as a dangerous romantic fantasy.

"The fastest way to dismantle the EU is to continue talking about a step-by-step move towards some sort of superstate," he said at the World Economic Forum."

This is why the EU should have been ready to offer the UK absolutely anything to stay in, once we leave and show it's not the end of the world that trickle of small stones at the top of the mountain will turn into an unstoppable force. The problem for them is that May hasn't asked for anything particularly unreasonable, there is no way for the EU "punish" the UK by withholding single market membership since we don't want it.

In the end, though it's not my most favoured solution, the move to leave the single market is strategically sound and the clarity offered by this position is better than the alternative of promising something that isn't within the gift of the government to deliver.

All in all, having had a couple of days to mull it over, I understand why the PM has moved to take the UK out of the single market. I also think that if a country leaves the single market and exceeds expectations then the single market is doomed in the long term. It doesn't hold any value if a nation can leave and prosper more out of it than within it.

Theresa May seems to have become an overnight success with her London and Davos speeches wildly acclaimed and she is suddenly looking like a World leader just as Obama leaves the stage.

The poll today supporting her leaving the single market and her negotiating stance is supported in all regions of the Country including Scotland and surprisingly London.

There is a tide moving her way and it looks as if those who want to remain will need to realise that we have passed the tipping point of staying in the single market and move on themselves.

Have you been at the magic mushrooms , you seem to have got hysterical recently and lost the plot completely.

chestnut said:

John_M said:

Black_Rook said:

Non-surprise of the day:

https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/822149125583970304

Yawn.

Personally, I think this makes Indyref2 more likely.

The number of pro-EU Sindies is about 30%.

70% of Scots oppose one or both of those positions.

Is succumbing to diktat from Europe, with even less of a voice than at Westminster, worth risking it for?

For sure, in Europe we would retain 90%+ of the powers as opposed to next to nothing and even those can be removed if we are seen to not be doffing our cap often enough.

TGOHF said:

John_M said:

Black_Rook said:

Non-surprise of the day:

https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/822149125583970304

Yawn.

Personally, I think this makes Indyref2 more likely.

Only if you think Nicola is daft..

Losing Sindy2 would set them back 30+ years.

LOL, intelligent riposte as ever

RobD said:

tlg86 said:

Going by my Facebook friends, Surrey have their work cut out to win that referendum.

I was trying to look into this earlier. Have they been raising council tax by the highest allowed amount each year since 2010? Seems odd to lump it all into one year.

Yes they have (1.99% every year) and my dad is livid. For five years Cameron would appear on TV telling us that the Tories had frozen council tax. "Not in bloody Woking, you haven't" he would say. We had a councillor knock on our door last year and my dad took great pleasure in telling him where to go.

I'm torn on the subject. I totally understand that we have an ageing population and we have to pay for social care. But I know this money won't be available for my parents should they need care as they own their own home. And I'm still furious about management of monetary policy in the last four years which has sent properties in Surrey through the roof. My sister's thinking about buying a four bed house for £625k and I've got to the point where I'm thinking she should do it because houses are only going to increase in value. As rcs1000 said this morning, we just can't put up interest rates.

So I'm not sure how I'll vote, but I'm almost certain it will be rejected.

For those who have taken the time to read the CETA, if the UK just asked for that, and negotiated something reasonable re the City, what would be the areas where the UK suffered the most from withdrawing from the Single Market?

Surely having a successor who is absolutely awful is just about the perfect end to a presidency!

tlg86 said:

RobD said:

tlg86 said:

Going by my Facebook friends, Surrey have their work cut out to win that referendum.

I was trying to look into this earlier. Have they been raising council tax by the highest allowed amount each year since 2010? Seems odd to lump it all into one year.

Yes they have (1.99% every year) and my dad is livid. For five years Cameron would appear on TV telling us that the Tories had frozen council tax. "Not in bloody Woking, you haven't" he would say. We had a councillor knock on our door last year and my dad took great pleasure in telling him where to go.

I'm torn on the subject. I totally understand that we have an ageing population and we have to pay for social care. But I know this money won't be available for my parents should they need care as they own their own home. And I'm still furious about management of monetary policy in the last four years which has sent properties in Surrey through the roof. My sister's thinking about buying a four bed house for £625k and I've got to the point where I'm thinking she should do it because houses are only going to increase in value. As rcs1000 said this morning, we just can't put up interest rates.

So I'm not sure how I'll vote, but I'm almost certain it will be rejected.

Thanks... seems they are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

malcolmg said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

TGOHF said:

EU infighting has started already ... oh dear..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/01/19/europes-ideological-civil-war-laid-bare-davos/

"Europe's leaders lashed out at each other in Davos in an inflamed dispute over how to stop the EU collapsing, laying bare the festering divisions that will plague the European project long after British withdrawal."

""The whole idea of an ever-closer Europe has gone, it's buried," said Dutch premier Mark Rutte, dismissing calls for full political union as a dangerous romantic fantasy.

"The fastest way to dismantle the EU is to continue talking about a step-by-step move towards some sort of superstate," he said at the World Economic Forum."

This is why the EU should have been ready to offer the UK absolutely anything to stay in, once we leave and show it's not the end of the world that trickle of small stones at the top of the mountain will turn into an unstoppable force. The problem for them is that May hasn't asked for anything particularly unreasonable, there is no way for the EU "punish" the UK by withholding single market membership since we don't want it.

In the end, though it's not my most favoured solution, the move to leave the single market is strategically sound and the clarity offered by this position is better than the alternative of promising something that isn't within the gift of the government to deliver.

All in all, having had a couple of days to mull it over, I understand why the PM has moved to take the UK out of the single market. I also think that if a country leaves the single market and exceeds expectations then the single market is doomed in the long term. It doesn't hold any value if a nation can leave and prosper more out of it than within it.

Theresa May seems to have become an overnight success with her London and Davos speeches wildly acclaimed and she is suddenly looking like a World leader just as Obama leaves the stage.

The poll today supporting her leaving the single market and her negotiating stance is supported in all regions of the Country including Scotland and surprisingly London.

There is a tide moving her way and it looks as if those who want to remain will need to realise that we have passed the tipping point of staying in the single market and move on themselves.

Have you been at the magic mushrooms , you seem to have got hysterical recently and lost the plot completely.

Just stating the fact and check todays yougov poll today re Scots support for TM - and the conservatives 17% lead

Any poll that says Scots support Tories is absolutely and guaranteed bogus. They are hated by the majority.

Theuniondivvie said:

malcolmg said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

TGOHF said:

EU infighting has started already ... oh dear..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/01/19/europes-ideological-civil-war-laid-bare-davos/

"Europe's leaders lashed out at each other in Davos in an inflamed dispute over how to stop the EU collapsing, laying bare the festering divisions that will plague the European project long after British withdrawal."

""The whole idea of an ever-closer Europe has gone, it's buried," said Dutch premier Mark Rutte, dismissing calls for full political union as a dangerous romantic fantasy.

"The fastest way to dismantle the EU is to continue talking about a step-by-step move towards some sort of superstate," he said at the World Economic Forum."

This is why the EU should have been ready to offer the UK absolutely anything to stay in, once we leave and show it's not the end of the world that trickle of small stones at the top of the mountain will turn into an unstoppable force. The problem for them is that May hasn't asked for anything particularly unreasonable, there is no way for the EU "punish" the UK by withholding single market membership since we don't want it.

In the end, though it's not my most favoured solution, the move to leave the single market is strategically sound and the clarity offered by this position is better than the alternative of promising something that isn't within the gift of the government to deliver.

All in all, having had a couple of days to mull it over, I understand why the PM has moved to take the UK out of the single market. I also think that if a country leaves the single market and exceeds expectations then the single market is doomed in the long term. It doesn't hold any value if a nation can leave and prosper more out of it than within it.

Theresa May seems to have become an overnight success with her London and Davos speeches wildly acclaimed and she is suddenly looking like a World leader just as Obama leaves the stage.

The poll today supporting her leaving the single market and her negotiating stance is supported in all regions of the Country including Scotland and surprisingly London.

There is a tide moving her way and it looks as if those who want to remain will need to realise that we have passed the tipping point of staying in the single market and move on themselves.

Have you been at the magic mushrooms , you seem to have got hysterical recently and lost the plot completely.

Tessy has driven him mad with desire.

You are being silly - she has impressed a whole lot of people this week and on the World stage in Davos.

You may find it hard to believe that we have someone in charge of this Country who is gaining popular support day by day

malcolmg said:

Black_Rook said:

Non-surprise of the day:

https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/822149125583970304

Yawn.

Yawn , daily occurence , bellend

oooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo, stroppy!

So, anyway, when's indyref2 happening?

Tim_B said:

foxinsoxuk said:

The_Apocalypse said:

SouthamObserver said:

PlatoSaid said:

Spiked
Brendan O'Neill on how Obama got away with it https://t.co/sv9ThEmkUw

Poor old Brendan - struggling to accept that Obama is leaving office with a 60% approval rating and the thanks of most Americans, while Trump enters the White House with a falling approval rating and most Americans opposed to him. Oh well, snowflakes will be snowflakes.

I think a number of Trump supporters are struggling with this actually. The Obamas are leaving on a real high, with many people holding them in incredibly high esteem. Trump, if he carries on the way he has is could make 2020 a real battle for the White House.

Trump will have a fairly golden inheritance rather like Blair in 97, which takes a while to squander. Despite all Trump's rhetoric, job creation and wages have fared well under Obama despite the GFC.

I reckon on a couple of years before the damage really shows from his tax cuts for the rich and tarrifs.

So you'll be pleased to know that the weather forecast for tomorrow in DC is heavy rain. The Park Service has relented and allowed collapsible umbrellas for the inauguration. They maintained the ban on selfie sticks however.

Its not the rain, its the nuclear fallout that we have to fear!

Not sure that my stock of tinned food and shotgun shells will last.

RobD said:

tlg86 said:

RobD said:

tlg86 said:

Going by my Facebook friends, Surrey have their work cut out to win that referendum.

I was trying to look into this earlier. Have they been raising council tax by the highest allowed amount each year since 2010? Seems odd to lump it all into one year.

Yes they have (1.99% every year) and my dad is livid. For five years Cameron would appear on TV telling us that the Tories had frozen council tax. "Not in bloody Woking, you haven't" he would say. We had a councillor knock on our door last year and my dad took great pleasure in telling him where to go.

I'm torn on the subject. I totally understand that we have an ageing population and we have to pay for social care. But I know this money won't be available for my parents should they need care as they own their own home. And I'm still furious about management of monetary policy in the last four years which has sent properties in Surrey through the roof. My sister's thinking about buying a four bed house for £625k and I've got to the point where I'm thinking she should do it because houses are only going to increase in value. As rcs1000 said this morning, we just can't put up interest rates.

So I'm not sure how I'll vote, but I'm almost certain it will be rejected.

Thanks... seems they are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Interesting. Just heard the leader of SCC on Sky News and he intimated that by social care it doesn't just mean the elderly. He also mentioned those with special needs and, wait for it, children. Well I'm buggered if I'm handing over more of my money to pay for those on benefits. It aint happening.

Jezza opposed to this, thinks Westminster should be responsible for it. My dad says he's voting for him!

tlg86 said:

RobD said:

tlg86 said:

Going by my Facebook friends, Surrey have their work cut out to win that referendum.

I was trying to look into this earlier. Have they been raising council tax by the highest allowed amount each year since 2010? Seems odd to lump it all into one year.

Yes they have (1.99% every year) and my dad is livid. For five years Cameron would appear on TV telling us that the Tories had frozen council tax. "Not in bloody Woking, you haven't" he would say. We had a councillor knock on our door last year and my dad took great pleasure in telling him where to go.

I'm torn on the subject. I totally understand that we have an ageing population and we have to pay for social care. But I know this money won't be available for my parents should they need care as they own their own home. And I'm still furious about management of monetary policy in the last four years which has sent properties in Surrey through the roof. My sister's thinking about buying a four bed house for £625k and I've got to the point where I'm thinking she should do it because houses are only going to increase in value. As rcs1000 said this morning, we just can't put up interest rates.

So I'm not sure how I'll vote, but I'm almost certain it will be rejected.

If mostly wealthy Surrey is in the manure over the state of Social care, then just imagine how it is in more deprived counties and boroughs.

Pulpstar said:

tlg86 said:

RobD said:

tlg86 said:

Going by my Facebook friends, Surrey have their work cut out to win that referendum.

I was trying to look into this earlier. Have they been raising council tax by the highest allowed amount each year since 2010? Seems odd to lump it all into one year.

Yes they have (1.99% every year) and my dad is livid. For five years Cameron would appear on TV telling us that the Tories had frozen council tax. "Not in bloody Woking, you haven't" he would say. We had a councillor knock on our door last year and my dad took great pleasure in telling him where to go.

I'm torn on the subject. I totally understand that we have an ageing population and we have to pay for social care. But I know this money won't be available for my parents should they need care as they own their own home. And I'm still furious about management of monetary policy in the last four years which has sent properties in Surrey through the roof. My sister's thinking about buying a four bed house for £625k and I've got to the point where I'm thinking she should do it because houses are only going to increase in value. As rcs1000 said this morning, we just can't put up interest rates.

So I'm not sure how I'll vote, but I'm almost certain it will be rejected.

Seems a monstrous amount of money for a 4 bed. Has she considered moving oop north ?

I suppose she could work from home most of the time. My dad and I reckon Retford would be a good spot to be as it's pretty quick on the train to London if you need to go into the office.

Our dream is buy back our grandfather's old house in Duckmanton, just down the road from you. But that's a long way off for us at the moment.

Can you imagine if every time @SeanT insulted someone he was as diligent and effusive with his subsequent apologies as @tyson. The poor boy would get nothing else done in his life.

Pulpstar said:

tlg86 said:

RobD said:

tlg86 said:

Going by my Facebook friends, Surrey have their work cut out to win that referendum.

I was trying to look into this earlier. Have they been raising council tax by the highest allowed amount each year since 2010? Seems odd to lump it all into one year.

Yes they have (1.99% every year) and my dad is livid. For five years Cameron would appear on TV telling us that the Tories had frozen council tax. "Not in bloody Woking, you haven't" he would say. We had a councillor knock on our door last year and my dad took great pleasure in telling him where to go.

I'm torn on the subject. I totally understand that we have an ageing population and we have to pay for social care. But I know this money won't be available for my parents should they need care as they own their own home. And I'm still furious about management of monetary policy in the last four years which has sent properties in Surrey through the roof. My sister's thinking about buying a four bed house for £625k and I've got to the point where I'm thinking she should do it because houses are only going to increase in value. As rcs1000 said this morning, we just can't put up interest rates.

So I'm not sure how I'll vote, but I'm almost certain it will be rejected.

Seems a monstrous amount of money for a 4 bed. Has she considered moving oop north ?

Could get a couple of castles for that

MaxPB said:

This is why the EU should have been ready to offer the UK absolutely anything to stay in, once we leave and show it's not the end of the world that trickle of small stones at the top of the mountain will turn into an unstoppable force. The problem for them is that May hasn't asked for anything particularly unreasonable, there is no way for the EU "punish" the UK by withholding single market membership since we don't want it.

I disagree. Support for the EU has declined in the past 10 years because the economies have been shit (as they have been in the US and Japan, of course). People lash out at the established order when their lives worsen, whether they are to blame or not.

The next 10 years are likely to see much higher developed world economic growth than the last, partly because these things are cyclical (the 70s were shit for almost everyone in the developed world, and the 80s and 90s were great), and partly because the enormous drag from higher energy and commodity prices is gone. (Indeed, I'd argue that cheap energy - whether oil, natural gas or new energy - is likely to be the big driver of the prosperity of the 2020s and 2030s.)

People are insular. If their lives are OK, they won't want to rock the boat.

Re Davos.

This is a fabulous time to go skiing in Davos. You drive to Klosters, leave the car in the station car park, and then ski the entire Klosters-Davos ski area, and there's barely a person on the slopes.

It's much, much more fun than a bunch of dreary presentations.

tlg86 said:

foxinsoxuk said:

tlg86 said:

RobD said:

tlg86 said:

Going by my Facebook friends, Surrey have their work cut out to win that referendum.

I was trying to look into this earlier. Have they been raising council tax by the highest allowed amount each year since 2010? Seems odd to lump it all into one year.

Yes they have (1.99% every year) and my dad is livid. For five years Cameron would appear on TV telling us that the Tories had frozen council tax. "Not in bloody Woking, you haven't" he would say. We had a councillor knock on our door last year and my dad took great pleasure in telling him where to go.

I'm torn on the subject. I totally understand that we have an ageing population and we have to pay for social care. But I know this money won't be available for my parents should they need care as they own their own home. And I'm still furious about management of monetary policy in the last four years which has sent properties in Surrey through the roof. My sister's thinking about buying a four bed house for £625k and I've got to the point where I'm thinking she should do it because houses are only going to increase in value. As rcs1000 said this morning, we just can't put up interest rates.

So I'm not sure how I'll vote, but I'm almost certain it will be rejected.

If mostly wealthy Surrey is in the manure over the state of Social care, then just imagine how it is in more deprived counties and boroughs.

It sounds like Surrey are saying the Government has reduced the amount Surrey gets from central government. It's worth saying that a lot of Surrey isn't that wealthy, but because it's so popular with the wealthy (good train links from Woking and Guildford in particular), for the rest of us living here things are somewhat expensive.

Everywhere has had tbeir funding reduced from Westminster. That is how austerity works.

Surrey has its deprived parts, but much less than a lot of the country.

Theuniondivvie said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

You are being silly - she has impressed a whole lot of people this week and on the World stage in Davos.

You may find it hard to believe that we have someone in charge of this Country who is gaining popular support day by day

An odd interpretation, but a man infatuated will believe anything.

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/822069844782837760

No infatuation - dont do that at 73 - just stating the obvious and watch the polls show it over the coming weeks

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/bbcnewsnight/status/822161090133925888

Yes, people in Wisconsin flocked to the polls because Brits had voted to leave the European Union.

It's obvious, innit.

foxinsoxuk said:

tlg86 said:

foxinsoxuk said:

tlg86 said:

RobD said:

tlg86 said:

Going by my Facebook friends, Surrey have their work cut out to win that referendum.

I was trying to look into this earlier. Have they been raising council tax by the highest allowed amount each year since 2010? Seems odd to lump it all into one year.

Yes they have (1.99% every year) and my dad is livid. For five years Cameron would appear on TV telling us that the Tories had frozen council tax. "Not in bloody Woking, you haven't" he would say. We had a councillor knock on our door last year and my dad took great pleasure in telling him where to go.

I'm torn on the subject. I totally understand that we have an ageing population and we have to pay for social care. But I know this money won't be available for my parents should they need care as they own their own home. And I'm still furious about management of monetary policy in the last four years which has sent properties in Surrey through the roof. My sister's thinking about buying a four bed house for £625k and I've got to the point where I'm thinking she should do it because houses are only going to increase in value. As rcs1000 said this morning, we just can't put up interest rates.

So I'm not sure how I'll vote, but I'm almost certain it will be rejected.

If mostly wealthy Surrey is in the manure over the state of Social care, then just imagine how it is in more deprived counties and boroughs.

It sounds like Surrey are saying the Government has reduced the amount Surrey gets from central government. It's worth saying that a lot of Surrey isn't that wealthy, but because it's so popular with the wealthy (good train links from Woking and Guildford in particular), for the rest of us living here things are somewhat expensive.

Everywhere has had tbeir funding reduced from Westminster. That is how austerity works.

Surrey has its deprived parts, but much less than a lot of the country.

Is it more or less than everywhere else? I'd imagine that Surrey struggles to recruit carers and what not because it's so expensive to live here.

Nigel Farage: Trump told me Brexit won him the presidency #newsnight

No fool like a gullible tool..

Harry Hayfield >>>

rcs1000 said:

Re Davos.

This is a fabulous time to go skiing in Davos. You drive to Klosters, leave the car in the station car park, and then ski the entire Klosters-Davos ski area, and there's barely a person on the slopes.

It's much, much more fun than a bunch of dreary presentations.

Surely people go to the Davos Summit to get pissed in lovely surroundings.

stodge said:

Evening all

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-38634038

A little more background on the Surrey situation. The lack of funding means individuals don't have the budget to attend the Alzheimer's centres which have to close through lack of use.

Madness in its way....

My grandmother hand Alzheimers. Woking Borough Council told us to sell her house and give them the money so that they could look after her. My parents said no and instead we moved in with her and my mum (a former nurse) looked after her.

Anyway, the Alzheimer's Society offered to look after her one day a week (or something like that) and so the bus picked her up to take her to the centre. Well, my grandmother was "very badly behaved" and so they told my parents that she wasn't welcome again, or as my mum put it, she'd been expelled. The incredulity from my parents was something to behold.

Alzheimer's is often portrayed in the heartbreaking way of people losing their memory. This is very sad, but what isn't talked about is how difficult it is to look after someone who has advanced Alzheimer's. It's remarkable how physically strong my grandmother became. Caring for someone like that is very challenging

Unfortunately the Alzheimer's Society were only interested in dealing with the easy cases where people would sit quietly and not cause them any trouble.

On the Indy / Brexit splits in Scotland in very rough numbers:

About half, voting SNP or Green, support independence. Former Labour voters that support independence have now switched to the SNP and so aren't Labour avrg more.

Labour, Conservative and Lib Dems making up the other half support the Union.

About a third of SNP voters support Brexit. Scottish WWC voters have substantially switched to the SNP. The Labour rump and Lib Dems making up a quarter of the vote are enthusiastic Remainers and blame the Tories (another quarter) for Brexit. Tories were initially split but are now on board.

Now for the next independence referendum. Regardless of how they voted for Brexit the Indy half will vote and campaign for independence with enthusiasm. The Tory quarter will vote and campaign for the Union with enthusiasm. The Labour and LD quarter may vote for the Union but they won't campaign with the Tories. This makes the Union campaign a Tory campaign, which isn't a good position for o it to be in

perdix said:

John_M said:

Black_Rook said:

Non-surprise of the day:

https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/822149125583970304

Yawn.

Personally, I think this makes Indyref2 more likely.

Indyref2 cannot take place without the permission of the Westminster government. Sturgeon may decide to hold one but it would not have legal force.

I would suggest the one way to make sure Scotland eventually votes for Independence is for Westminster to refuse to allow a referendum.

Richard_Tyndall said:

perdix said:

John_M said:

Black_Rook said:

Non-surprise of the day:

https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/822149125583970304

Yawn.

Personally, I think this makes Indyref2 more likely.

Indyref2 cannot take place without the permission of the Westminster government. Sturgeon may decide to hold one but it would not have legal force.

I would suggest the one way to make sure Scotland eventually votes for Independence is for Westminster to refuse to allow a referendum.

Sturgeon won't call for one unless polling shows demand for one. And in my opinion, whilst many Scots like to think of themselves as pro-European; they're not actually particularly wedded to the EU. They will wait and see how it turns out.

Sorry Alastair, not convinced.

Firstly, what is the defeat that is being admitted? The message from Tory conference onward has been that we will leave the single market, and quite likely the customs union too. The PM has been clear on this for months; no aim has been surrendered so far. Don't really understand the amputation reference either - is Brexit supposed to be a wound? It flows relatively naturally from the June vote.

Secondly, HSBC et al have a good track record of threatening job moves - remember the mooted plans to relocate HQ to Hong Kong a few years ago. I don't doubt that some jobs will move, but again this is the natural result of Brexit. The govt's approach doesn't make a lot of difference (unless there was a concerted push for a finance-friendly exit, but anything short of full EU membership is a poor outcome for banking).

The third point re timing - please see rebuttal one above. Behind the stated objectives/principles all the main measures WERE known at Con conference. This speech was not "new" and as such didn't represent a delay. No organisation simply stands still for 3 months, and no senior level meetings decide nothing for 12 consecutive weeks running. Government and cabinet are no different. Maybe we are seeing movement now because there were internal disagreements to be ironed out; maybe it's because the feelers were being put out in Europe and elsewhere to gauge what might be on offer for trade and other areas. Whichever, that time certainly would not have been wasted.

Finally, the mood with Europe has been icy since very shortly after June - and there aren't many counter factuals where that wouldn't be the case.

But I am interested - what DO you want to see from negotiations and Brexit? Is it just something that preserves tribe status quo as much as possible, or is there a distinct vision you believe govt should (and might realistically) aim for?