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  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113

    Sounds like they're reviving 'Project Fear' as 'Project Euphemism'. Why? I thought it had been utterly discredited.
    Fingers in my ears. La la la.
  • Sean_F said:

    Yes. Brexit and Trump's win have dismayed a lot of people who thought that history was inevitably marching in the direction they favoured.

    Trump's victory seems to have upset a majority of Americans. His approval rating is 37%.

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Personally, I suspect that net immigration really should end up well below current levels - but where exactly it will go, and whether the much-vaunted 100,000 target will be met, I would be loathe to predict. You may well be right about those on temporary work visas (the way imported agricultural labour, however much of that is still allowed, is liable to be structured after Brexit,) and the PM might yet be persuaded to exempt university students, although last I read about that it was suggested she wasn't keen on the idea.

    Regardless, I reckon that quite a lot of the furore about immigration will die off once we leave the EU. There are several contributory factors toward immigration scepticism, one of these being the lack of any effective control over who comes into the country from the rest of the EU. Once that is dealt with, it should calm things down a good deal.
    One way to ensure that people "feel" that we have border controls is to make sure it takes us at least 3 hours at our air and sea ports when we come in. Then we will be satisfied.

    We could have McDonalds, Starbucks inside the Passport hall.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Trump's victory seems to have upset a majority of Americans. His approval rating is 37%.

    He could be the first in history who will never achieve 50%.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,814
    surbiton said:

    Has anybody worked out how much more UK Border would cost in terms of extra manpower ?
    I don't think it takes much manpower for the government to make immigrants feel unwelcome. It's a poor form of "control" however. The most useful and mobile immigrants will be put off the most.

    It doesn't matter in the Brexit paradigm. We don't want foreigners and this is how we can have fewer of them.
  • Trump to warn Juncker's not to continue with a European Dads army

    Assume he sees it as incompatable with NATO and no doubt the Europeans themselves
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    None of which means that Brexit will not lead to people working for longer before they retire as the overwhelmingly British-born population of the UK lives longer into old age (and fewer elderly people are able to emigrate) and fewer people of working age are around to create the wealth needed to support them. I completely accept Brexit means much lower public spending and far longer working lives for most people. I just wonder whether most people realise that's where they're heading.
    They will be the first moaners.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    surbiton said:

    One way to ensure that people "feel" that we have border controls is to make sure it takes us at least 3 hours at our air and sea ports when we come in. Then we will be satisfied.

    We could have McDonalds, Starbucks inside the Passport hall.
    ???

    Does every other country that isn't in the EU make inbound travellers wait three or more hours to show their passports?

    If not, then why should we?

    Strange.
  • Enough of this brexit nonsense, nearly time for the cowboys vs packers.

    Does anybody know why sky binned Kevin Cadle from presenting their coverage? His replacement is bloody useless and damn annoying.
  • Scott_P said:
    It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,370
    glw said:

    I think it's a form of culture shock, it's not that their side lost that upsets some people so much, but that their assumptions about the nature of society are wrong. The people they don't like, and assumed were powerless, are more numerous and more powerful than they thought. And instead of having to move to another country to experience culture shock they got to feel it overnight and right at home, which is even more disturbing.
    Certainly. It's very disorientating to discover that the Coalition of the Ascendant is so much hot air.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited January 2017
    Scott_P said:
    Is that picture giving us an idea of the wad of £50 notes we will be carrying with us after Brexit, a much devalued pound and hyper-inflation ?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924
    surbiton said:

    What ? Go below the Euro parity ? I thought it was the Euro that was imploding!

    Come to Britain for your holidays. The Banana Kingdom!
    The borders are closed
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    surbiton said:

    Is that picture giving us an idea of the wad of £50 notes we will be carrying with us after Brexit, a much devalued pound and hyper-inflation ?
    I now expect to meet my end in a fight to the death over Monmouthire's last potato.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,370

    It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
    Some people want us to be punished for voting against their wishes.
  • None of which means that Brexit will not lead to people working for longer before they retire as the overwhelmingly British-born population of the UK lives longer into old age (and fewer elderly people are able to emigrate) and fewer people of working age are around to create the wealth needed to support them. I completely accept Brexit means much lower public spending and far longer working lives for most people. I just wonder whether most people realise that's where they're heading.
    And immigrants will live longer into old age so they will have to extend their working lives as well.

    Inside the EU or not people will have to work longer to create the extra wealth needed for their longer non-working lives.

    To claim that this is affected by Brexit is bizarre.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad

    It's an article in the Wall Street Journal...

    Yes, the destruction of the UK is their prime motivation.

    FFS.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113

    It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
    Desire has nothing to do with it. It's simply the power of the market - thought you guys were quite keen on that stuff.
  • FF43 said:

    I don't think it takes much manpower for the government to make immigrants feel unwelcome. It's a poor form of "control" however. The most useful and mobile immigrants will be put off the most.

    It doesn't matter in the Brexit paradigm. We don't want foreigners and this is how we can have fewer of them.
    My wife and I have had to get Canadian ETA's at a cost of 7 dollars each.

    When we went to our sons wedding in Vancouver in June 2015 no visas or ETa"s were required

    Assume we will look at some kind of visa charge, in fact I think Yvette Cooper called for them last year.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,814


    Trump's victory seems to have upset a majority of Americans. His approval rating is 37%.

    Donald Trump fools some of the people all the time, but not yet all the people some of the time. Unfortunately the majority that recognise a charlatan when they see one, have a lower propensity to vote.

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Sean_F said:


    Some people want us to be punished for voting against their wishes.
    You guys brought it on mate!
  • And immigrants will live longer into old age so they will have to extend their working lives as well.

    Inside the EU or not people will have to work longer to create the extra wealth needed for their longer non-working lives.

    To claim that this is affected by Brexit is bizarre.

    Not really - EU immigration often involves younger people coming here for a few years and then going home again. The fewer able to do this in the future the more British citizens will have to take the strain.

  • Scott_P said:

    It's an article in the Wall Street Journal...

    Yes, the destruction of the UK is their prime motivation.

    FFS.
    It was not this one posting - most of your postings have this same negative theme
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,370
    surbiton said:

    You guys brought it on mate!
    I've been promised all kinds of horrors, due to voting for Brexit. They haven't materialised.
  • Desire has nothing to do with it. It's simply the power of the market - thought you guys were quite keen on that stuff.
    Markets rise and fall - it will be interesting to see how the euro does over the next few weeks
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    most of your postings have this same negative theme

    It's shame that you find the realities of Brexit have a "negative theme"
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited January 2017

    It dropped 1.6% to 1.999 - I do think your postings portray a desire for the Country to fail which is really rather sad
    You are optimistic aren't you ? 1.199 mate. June 23rd = 1.50

    Sterling falls more than 20% since the Independence day!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JonesTheMarkets: Pound GBPUSD trading around 1.1990 as Asia opens- 200 points/2c lower than Friday close. #forex
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Sean_F said:

    I've been promised all kinds of horrors, due to voting for Brexit. They haven't materialised.
    The country is, in the opinion of an absolute majority, more divided, unhappier and more racist than it was a year ago.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    edited January 2017
    Sean_F said:

    I've been promised all kinds of horrors, due to voting for Brexit. They haven't materialised.
    Yet. We haven't left.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    It was not this one posting - most of your postings have this same negative theme
    Brexit is negative. Insular, anti-foreigner and racist!
  • Scott_P said:

    It's shame that you find the realities of Brexit have a "negative theme"
    I do not find Brexit negative but your postings do but I assume you wanted to remain. By the way I voted remain but have long since moved on and now want us to succeed in leaving
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,519

    Yet. We haven't left.
    This weekend marks the end of the phoney war. From here it starts to get interesting...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,370

    The country is, in the opinion of an absolute majority, more divided, unhappier and more racist than it was a year ago.
    People tend to give pessimistic answers. As far as I can tell, the country is much the same as it was 12 months ago.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113

    I do not find Brexit negative but your postings do but I assume you wanted to remain. By the way I voted remain but have long since moved on and now want us to succeed in leaving
    I'm sure the currency traders will take note of your wishes.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,370

    Yet. We haven't left.
    So like King Lear, you're still promising us the terrors of the Earth, even though you don't know what they are.
  • surbiton said:

    Brexit is negative. Insular, anti-foreigner and racist!
    You may view it that way. I am not anti foreigner or racist or insular and see great opportunities ahead.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Sean_F said:

    People tend to give pessimistic answers. As far as I can tell, the country is much the same as it was 12 months ago.
    The public disagree with you. The margins were not close, despite a bias to the middle that might be expected from the format of the question.

    You are looking into your heart and substituting your own judgement for that clearly expressed by respondents. You have no ground for doing that.

    The simplest explanation is far more likely to be the correct one: the country is more divided, unhappier and more racist.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113

    I do not find Brexit negative but your postings do but I assume you wanted to remain. By the way I voted remain but have long since moved on and now want us to succeed in leaving
    I'm sure the currency traders will take note of your wishes.
    Sean_F said:

    So like King Lear, you're still promising us the terrors of the Earth, even though you don't know what they are.
    What part of "sterling is down by 20%" don't you understand?
  • FF43 said:

    Donald Trump fools some of the people all the time, but not yet all the people some of the time. Unfortunately the majority that recognise a charlatan when they see one, have a lower propensity to vote.

    Trump may just change that. It could be his greatest achievement.
  • The public disagree with you. The margins were not close, despite a bias to the middle that might be expected from the format of the question.

    You are looking into your heart and substituting your own judgement for that clearly expressed by respondents. You have no ground for doing that.

    The simplest explanation is far more likely to be the correct one: the country is more divided, unhappier and more racist.
    There is not a racist bone in my body and I do object to the constant accusation that the country is racist
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,370

    I'm sure the currency traders will take note of your wishes. What part of "sterling is down by 20%" don't you understand?
    Currencies fluctuate in value up and down. Since I don't bet on currencies, I'm not sure why this should concern me.
  • Not really - EU immigration often involves younger people coming here for a few years and then going home again. The fewer able to do this in the future the more British citizens will have to take the strain.

    And of course none of these EU immigrants are entitled to benefits or use public services.

    Oh wait ...

    To take one example which was in the news recently:

    ' Five men have been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving after a girl aged 12 was killed in an apparent hit-and-run in Oldham.

    Helina Kotlarova was killed on New Year's Eve. Her cousin Zaneta Krokova, 11, was said to be critically ill in hospital after the crash.

    ... The family of seven sisters and one brother came to England from the Czech Republic eight years ago. '

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38486212

    ' Four men have been charged over a suspected hit-and-run crash on New Year's Eve in which two cousins died.

    Gabor Hegedus, 38, faces charges including causing death by dangerous driving and driving without a licence.

    ... Mr Hegedus, of Oldham, was also charged with failing to stop after a collision, conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and failing to report the crash.

    David Orsos, 18, Janos Kalanyos, 50, and Zoltan Peto, 49, also of Oldham, have been charged with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. '

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38510314

    Now do you really think that all the families involved in this story are wealth creating net tax contributors to the UK economy ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,519
    Even the spoof Angela Merkel knew what was coming:

    https://twitter.com/Queen_Europe/status/818591264358760448
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,027

    This weekend marks the end of the phoney war. From here it starts to get interesting...
    Leavers crowing that the negative consequences of Brexit haven't happened make me smile - 7 months down the line and we haven't even clarified who can press the start button yet!

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,370

    The public disagree with you. The margins were not close, despite a bias to the middle that might be expected from the format of the question.

    You are looking into your heart and substituting your own judgement for that clearly expressed by respondents. You have no ground for doing that.

    The simplest explanation is far more likely to be the correct one: the country is more divided, unhappier and more racist.
    You have no ground for thinking that your subjective opinion is any better than my own. You think Britain will become a hellhole, due to Brexit. I have more faith in my fellow citizens.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,814

    My wife and I have had to get Canadian ETA's at a cost of 7 dollars each.

    When we went to our sons wedding in Vancouver in June 2015 no visas or ETa"s were required

    Assume we will look at some kind of visa charge, in fact I think Yvette Cooper called for them last year.

    AFAIK Canada doesn't currently aim to reduce the number of foreigners circulating in the country. That is certainly an objective for Brexit. It's why we collectively voted to Leave the EU and it's why Theresa May is happy to sacrifice the Single Market. Originally, I thought immigration would not be much affected by Brexit beyond the inevitable recession caused by it, because the reasons for the immigration don't change. The same reasons why David Cameron and Theresa May so massively failed to meet their previous 100 000 target. But that was me not "getting" Brexit. The point of Brexit is to have less. Especially less foreigners. Prosperity, openness and global connections are the discredited Blair/Cameron policies.

    It's not mainly about red tape. The government just has to let it be known that foreigners aren't welcome in the UK. Far from being valued members of the community, the government writes them letters telling them they are merely negotiating capital. People will then say, "why would I want to go to a country like that?" It will have an effect.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,100
    Sean_F said:

    Currencies fluctuate in value up and down. Since I don't bet on currencies, I'm not sure why this should concern me.
    I know of one trader who is shorting sterling because he thinks all other traders will irrationally oversell sterling.

    Of such calculations are currency values made.
  • Sean_F said:

    People tend to give pessimistic answers. As far as I can tell, the country is much the same as it was 12 months ago.
    Correction - the hard core remainers are much unhappier than 12 months ago. Everyone else is just fine.

    One point that I keep hearing is that our economy will struggle without free movement of people. Here's a question then - how come we had such a massive economic boom in the 1980s despite net migration of only around 50k per year?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,075

    Trump to warn Juncker's not to continue with a European Dads army

    Assume he sees it as incompatable with NATO and no doubt the Europeans themselves

    Although Trump can't have things both ways:

    1. Hey Europeans! Start spending your 2% and stop relying on us,
    and
    2. Hey Europeans! Stop with your plans to have a workable, modern army. Or at least, you can have lots of little armies, but not one big one. That would be unacceptable.
  • And of course none of these EU immigrants are entitled to benefits or use public services.

    Oh wait ...

    To take one example which was in the news recently:

    ' Five men have been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving after a girl aged 12 was killed in an apparent hit-and-run in Oldham.

    Helina Kotlarova was killed on New Year's Eve. Her cousin Zaneta Krokova, 11, was said to be critically ill in hospital after the crash.

    ... The family of seven sisters and one brother came to England from the Czech Republic eight years ago. '

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38486212

    ' Four men have been charged over a suspected hit-and-run crash on New Year's Eve in which two cousins died.

    Gabor Hegedus, 38, faces charges including causing death by dangerous driving and driving without a licence.

    ... Mr Hegedus, of Oldham, was also charged with failing to stop after a collision, conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and failing to report the crash.

    David Orsos, 18, Janos Kalanyos, 50, and Zoltan Peto, 49, also of Oldham, have been charged with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. '

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38510314

    Now do you really think that all the families involved in this story are wealth creating net tax contributors to the UK economy ?

    I do not believe they are representative.

  • I'm sure the currency traders will take note of your wishes. What part of "sterling is down by 20%" don't you understand?
    If you want a higher value for sterling then:

    1) Create more wealth
    2) Live within your means
    3) Increase your savings ratio

    It is the inability / unwillingness of British people / government to do these things which puts downward pressure on sterling's value.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Sean_F said:

    You have no ground for thinking that your subjective opinion is any better than my own. You think Britain will become a hellhole, due to Brexit. I have more faith in my fellow citizens.
    I have opinion poll backing for my contention that things have got worse in the last year. You are seeking to handwave this away (as your fellow travellers like to put it). But so far the evidence suggests that Brexit is tainting British society.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    John_M said:

    Young people should try voting.
    The pensioners parents also voted, but they chose to vote for things that benefitted the next generation.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Correction - the hard core remainers are much unhappier than 12 months ago. Everyone else is just fine.

    One point that I keep hearing is that our economy will struggle without free movement of people. Here's a question then - how come we had such a massive economic boom in the 1980s despite net migration of only around 50k per year?
    You have to be quite old to remember those days. I'd probably reiterate what I said earlier; there was a heady combination of deregulation and the advent of computers and their associated networks.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113

    If you want a higher value for sterling then:

    1) Create more wealth
    2) Live within your means
    3) Increase your savings ratio

    It is the inability / unwillingness of British people / government to do these things which puts downward pressure on sterling's value.
    Nothing to do with Brexit? You guys crack me up, you really do.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,370

    I have opinion poll backing for my contention that things have got worse in the last year. You are seeking to handwave this away (as your fellow travellers like to put it). But so far the evidence suggests that Brexit is tainting British society.
    The evidence really doesn't. You're just massively unhappy that you lost. I'm afraid it happens. I wasn't happy when Labour won huge majorities, but I had to cope with it. You'll cope with Brexit.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Sean_F said:

    The evidence really doesn't. You're just massively unhappy that you lost. I'm afraid it happens. I wasn't happy when Labour won huge majorities, but I had to cope with it. You'll cope with Brexit.
    Ok, keep ignoring the polling evidence that the public detect deteriorations in British society.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,647
    Sean_F said:

    Currencies fluctuate in value up and down. Since I don't bet on currencies, I'm not sure why this should concern me.
    If you are unaware of the implications of a 20% fall in sterling for the UK economy then the reason you voted Leave is becoming clearer by the minute.

  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    rcs1000 said:

    Although Trump can't have things both ways:

    1. Hey Europeans! Start spending your 2% and stop relying on us,
    and
    2. Hey Europeans! Stop with your plans to have a workable, modern army. Or at least, you can have lots of little armies, but not one big one. That would be unacceptable.
    For the Yanks, the issue has always been C3. They want the Europeans to spend more on defence (and more effectively as well, which is a bit rich coming from them), but they don't want a parallel command structure. Of course, if you're a federalist, then that's exactly what you want. Hence, a little bit of tension.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,928
    edited January 2017

    I have opinion poll backing for my contention that things have got worse in the last year. You are seeking to handwave this away (as your fellow travellers like to put it). But so far the evidence suggests that Brexit is tainting British society.
    I can agree with you that Brexit is affecting society for some but leaving is not going away and we should all now try to get the best for our Country, but staying in the EU is not an option
  • This weekend marks the end of the phoney war. From here it starts to get interesting...
    We endured the Blitz. We can endure this.

    Those saying "oh dear, Sterling's falling" are little better than those saying we brought the Blitz on ourselves because of our declaration of war against Germany 12 months earlier.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,370

    Ok, keep ignoring the polling evidence that the public detect deteriorations in British society.
    I'm not wrong. You've spent months bitching and moaning about a vote that went against you. Just grow up.
  • Ok, keep ignoring the polling evidence that the public detect deteriorations in British society.
    Didn't the polls get GE2015 wrong?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,421
    edited January 2017

    I do not believe they are representative.

    Not all EU immigrants are like that but some are.

    Now lets compare the two groups of immigrants featured.

    The Czech families have large numbers of children and have been in Oldham for eight years.

    They have therefore been heavy uses of public services and would have been entitled to a great deal of welfare benefits. I would also suspect that a family with eight children which had migrated to Oldham was also unlikely to create much wealth or pay much tax.

    The hit-and-run drivers, who seem to have Hungarian names to me, are now going to be a drain on public services because of the NHS costs from their driving and all the resulting police, court and prison expenditure.

    And how many useful immigrants who actually are net contributors to the UK economy are needed merely to pay the costs of all this ?
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited January 2017
    TOPPING said:

    If you are unaware of the implications of a 20% fall in sterling for the UK economy then the reason you voted Leave is becoming clearer by the minute.

    An increase in exports, a flourishing stock market, a flood of foreign investment and a booming tourist industry seem to be the implications thus far.

    Granted, we have some idiots that think a litre of petrol is largely priced in dollars rather than taxes.
  • We endured the Blitz. We can endure this.

    Those saying "oh dear, Sterling's falling" are little better than those saying we brought the Blitz on ourselves because of our declaration of war against Germany 12 months earlier.

    Why?

  • TOPPING said:

    If you are unaware of the implications of a 20% fall in sterling for the UK economy then the reason you voted Leave is becoming clearer by the minute.

    It is positive and negative but inflation will be the worry. However I remember the day the BOE increased interest rates to 15% and we survived. Currencies rise and fall and the big plus today is the unprecedented low interest rates
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,814

    We endured the Blitz. We can endure this.

    Those saying "oh dear, Sterling's falling" are little better than those saying we brought the Blitz on ourselves because of our declaration of war against Germany 12 months earlier.
    Actually I didn't endure the Blitz. As a Remain voter, I think I am safe in saying Brexit will be crap, but not THAT crap! This time, it's a voted for in Britain crapness. It's all ours. Germany is not involved.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,519
    Bild quotes Trump saying NATO is obsolete and that other EU countries will leave. Could be from the Gove interview.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,075
    John_M said:

    For the Yanks, the issue has always been C3. They want the Europeans to spend more on defence (and more effectively as well, which is a bit rich coming from them), but they don't want a parallel command structure. Of course, if you're a federalist, then that's exactly what you want. Hence, a little bit of tension.
    This is one of these areas where I - as am Americophile - don't have a lot of sympathy with the US. Make a choice: we want to be the arsenal of the Western world, and we'll pay the price, but dominate the choices. Or, we're happy to let it become a multipolar world, and save money but lose influence.
  • Not all EU immigrants are like that but some are.

    Now lets compare the two groups of immigrants featured.

    The Czech families have large numbers of children and have been in Oldham for eight years.

    They have therefore been heavy uses of public services and would have been entitled to a great deal of welfare benefits. I would also suspect that a family with eight children which had migrated to Oldham was also unlikely to create much wealth or pay much tax.

    The hit-and-run drivers, who seem to have Hungarian names to me, are now going to be a drain on public services because of the NHS costs from their driving and all the resulting police, court and prison expenditure.

    And how many useful immigrants who actually are net contributors to the UK economy are needed merely to pay the costs of all this ?

    A couple of Premier League footballers.

    As I say, I don't think your examples are representative.

  • Bild quotes Trump saying NATO is obsolete and that other EU countries will leave. Could be from the Gove interview.

    Looks like it is the Times but I do not know if it is tomorrow's
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,647
    chestnut said:

    An increase in exports, a flourishing stock market, a flood of foreign investment and a booming tourist industry seem to be the implications thus far.

    Granted, we have some idiots that think a litre of petrol is largely priced in dollars rather than taxes.
    Yes true and there are other idiots who quote only the export side of our trade balance when discussing these things.
  • Bild quotes Trump saying NATO is obsolete and that other EU countries will leave. Could be from the Gove interview.

    Gove did the interview with a German journalist.

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,814
    rcs1000 said:

    This is one of these areas where I - as am Americophile - don't have a lot of sympathy with the US. Make a choice: we want to be the arsenal of the Western world, and we'll pay the price, but dominate the choices. Or, we're happy to let it become a multipolar world, and save money but lose influence.
    I'm not sure Trump speaks for America on this. NATO is, at best, a US success story; at worst an irrelevance. There's no reason for it to tear it up.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited January 2017
    Sean_F said:

    I'm not wrong. You've spent months bitching and moaning about a vote that went against you. Just grow up.
    Salaries abroad are now 20% higher.

    Once we have proper migration data, the brexit-brain-drain story will be all over the news.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,075

    Bild quotes Trump saying NATO is obsolete and that other EU countries will leave. Could be from the Gove interview.

    I can't help feel there is no more efficient way of getting the various EU countries to work together than to (a) remove the security shield the US provided, and (b) get the US/Donald Trump to say that the EU is going to fall apart.
  • A couple of Premier League footballers.

    As I say, I don't think your examples are representative.

    But is anyone saying we should restrict Premier League footballers ?

    While you are saying you want unlimited immigration of ANYONE and the more the better.

    For example do you think that the thousands of East European Roma who have moved to Rotherham in recent years are net tax contributors to the UK economy ?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    John_M said:

    You have to be quite old to remember those days. I'd probably reiterate what I said earlier; there was a heady combination of deregulation and the advent of computers and their associated networks.
    What there was in the 1980s were all those lovely North Sea oil revenues coming on stream.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,075
    chestnut said:

    An increase in exports, a flourishing stock market, a flood of foreign investment and a booming tourist industry seem to be the implications thus far.

    Granted, we have some idiots that think a litre of petrol is largely priced in dollars rather than taxes.

    Dude: imports are up. Unsecured personal borrowing is growing at 11% annual clip. We have the most unbalanced economy in the developed world, with a quadruple deficits: personal, corporate, government, and current account.

    Our economy is insanely vulnerable. Not because of Brexit, but when the shit hits the fan because we're all borrowing and spending on new iPhones, you know what's going to get the blame, right?

    Brexit.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,519
    rcs1000 said:

    I can't help feel there is no more efficient way of getting the various EU countries to work together than to (a) remove the security shield the US provided, and (b) get the US/Donald Trump to say that the EU is going to fall apart.
    Quite. I said before that he will prove to be an agent of European integration. He'll get his bilateral deal - with the EU.
  • rcs1000 said:

    I can't help feel there is no more efficient way of getting the various EU countries to work together than to (a) remove the security shield the US provided, and (b) get the US/Donald Trump to say that the EU is going to fall apart.
    He is anti EU but pro the Nation state.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,075

    He is anti EU but pro the Nation state.
    Personal view: his attitude will have opposite of the desired effect.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Just out of interest, has it been mentioned on here that Anthony King died a couple of days ago?

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,519
    https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-01-15/trump-calls-nato-obsolete-and-dismisses-eu-in-german-interview

    Quoted in German from a conversation held in English, Trump predicted Britain’s exit from the EU will be a success and portrayed the EU as an instrument of German domination with the purpose of beating the U.S. in international trade. For that reason, Trump said, he’s fairly indifferent whether the EU breaks up or stays together, according to Bild.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,075
    alex. said:

    Just out of interest, has it been mentioned on here that Anthony King died a couple of days ago?

    There was a thread header on it.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Personal view: his attitude will have opposite of the desired effect.
    You would think so but we live in extraordinary times - who knows anything anymore
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Have read this evening's contributions, and have solved Brexit.

    Keep going on like this until everyone is so depressed that they slit their wrists.

    Nobody left alive to care one way or another. Sorted.

    Meanwhile, for those still not keen on imminent death, here's a public information message from the Ministry for Positive Thinking:

    Donald Trump says UK 'doing great' after Brexit vote

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38631832
  • rcs1000 said:

    Dude: imports are up. Unsecured personal borrowing is growing at 11% annual clip. We have the most unbalanced economy in the developed world, with a quadruple deficits: personal, corporate, government, and current account.

    Our economy is insanely vulnerable. Not because of Brexit, but when the shit hits the fan because we're all borrowing and spending on new iPhones, you know what's going to get the blame, right?

    Brexit.
    Personally I'm amazed that the whole 'I consume therefore I am' economy has kept going so long.

    I remember thinking back in 2007-8 "People will have to see sense now and start living within their means".

    A trillion pounds of government borrowing and with the current account deficit at record levels later ...
  • But is anyone saying we should restrict Premier League footballers ?

    While you are saying you want unlimited immigration of ANYONE and the more the better.

    For example do you think that the thousands of East European Roma who have moved to Rotherham in recent years are net tax contributors to the UK economy ?

    I am saying Brexit will mean people working longer before they can retire. That's all. I accept completely that we have voted for that. I doubt Roma make any contribution to the economy. But most EU immigrants are not Roma. I think it's a shame we are going to prevent them coming here to make a positive contribution, but my side lost. We are where we are.

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,814
    rcs1000 said:

    Personal view: his attitude will have opposite of the desired effect.
    The question is whether he's saying random stuff or whether he has an agenda. You never know with Trump.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited January 2017
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38631832

    Mr Trump added: "Countries want their own identity and the UK wanted its own identity, but I do think if they hadn't been forced to take in all of the refugees than you wouldn't have a Brexit."

    lol

    He's spot on and completely wrong at the same time.

    Britain has hardly taken any refugees in the grand scheme of things - but the *fear* of the hoards of migrants - as depicted in Farages poster - most definitely did win the referndum for leave.

    That was worth ~5% at least, IMO.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Have read this evening's contributions, and have solved Brexit.

    Keep going on like this until everyone is so depressed that they slit their wrists.

    Nobody left alive to care one way or another. Sorted.

    Meanwhile, for those still not keen on imminent death, here's a public information message from the Ministry for Positive Thinking:

    Donald Trump says UK 'doing great' after Brexit vote

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38631832

    Grumbling is a national core competence.

    The world has improved immeasurably since I was born (I don't think there's a link!), this is the best time to be alive in all of human history and it'll only get better for us in the aggregate.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Again people out of touch on immigration,must be all these rich folks on here.

    I agree with richard,the rotherham example is what is happening where I live .
This discussion has been closed.