politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Labour’s challenge in retaining Stoke Central is equal if not
Comments
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One thing brexit is doing is bringing the remain nutjobs to the fore.
Some real bat shit crazy people on here who wants harm to our country and people.0 -
Are ,you confusing it with amaretto?MonikerDiCanio said:
Amarone, profoundly bitter, profoundly delicious.SeanT said:TOPPING:
"Don't believe you. Plus I know every week there seems to be a different fad but they do say you should have a day or two a week off the booze."
****
Clearly you do think this shit, so you have merely exposed yourself: as another Remoaner traitor.
This referendum has been like lifting up the stone, to see the scuttling nastiness that exists just beneath the liberal, europhile facade
As for booze, I'm two glasses of Amarone into the evening. Been working hard all day. I'm stone cold sober by my standards. I'm just genuinely amazed, startled and repelled by the abhorrent bilge Remainers like you are now dribbling out of your electorally sodomized arseholes, which so closely resemble your mouths.0 -
Nice to see the passage of time has healed the scars of June.The losers facing up to defeat with equanimity, the winners behaving with quiet dignity and grace. Splendid - carry on.0
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There is a difference between being disappointed in the result of an election, fearing the worst but still getting on with it and hoping for the best and actively, positively wishing disaster on the country as a result. That is even more so when this referendum was not about which party should run the country for a few years but over the very question of whether the UK could survive as an independent and sovereign nation state. In centuries past such people would have been called traitorsTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.Dadge said:
It wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen. Every time I hear another story of everyday xenophobia it does make me wish my own country ill. Even if before the referendum my fellow countryidiots had an excuse for being so shitty, they certainly have no excuse now that they've voted to pull up the drawbridge.SeanT said:
That's true of most Remoaners, but I think some of the more deranged - like Meeks - actively want to see the country suffer, and slide into penury and famine, as some kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.Casino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit
"The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."0 -
And Nick Farron, I think?Nigelb said:
'Cockroach' was a favourite epithet of the Rwandan Interahamwe before the genocide. Rhetoric tends to reflect values; you might want to consider that.SeanT said:
No, I don't think that. I really don't. I'm a patriot AND a democrat. If my fellow Brits vote Labour, then I accept it, and wish ill on no one. I may decry their mistake, but I know they have their motives (different from mine) and that electoral fortunes will change, over time.TOPPING said:
Look me in the eye and tell me that, when Labour win a GE, you don't think: well that'll show them, they won't be laughing when they have to pay more for their beer and fags.SeanT said:
To myour own words!Dadge said:
drawbridge.SeanT said:
That's true of most Remoaners, but I think some of the more deranged - like Meeks - actively want to see the country suffer, and slide into penury and famine, as some kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.Casino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit
"The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."
Here's some advice. Take a good long look at yourself in the mirror. Bring a puke-bucket.
Go on, tell me.
These fucking Remoaner traitors are DISGUSTING. Cockroaches.0 -
We were always better off Out since our legal system is so different to the Latin countries. The problem is the Germans are not accepting real transfers to poor countries like Greece so the Euro will limp on as a zombie currency.SeanT said:
Funnily enough, they are generally right. The solution to many EU problems - from the currency to migration to lack of democracy - is a proper Federal superstate, with fiscal transfers, an EU army and border force, EU police, directly elected EU president, and so on.Casino_Royale said:
There is no problem in the EU to which the answer isn't More Europe.Pagan said:well looks like got out just in time as they are mulling a fifth freedom
"The Commission said a new "principle of free movement of data within the EU" should guide decision making by EU countries affecting data storage or processing."
Trouble is too many electors and national capitals won't swallow this, so the EU is destined to remain this lumbering, malformed, half-born hybrid, always inching closer to union, but never getting there, as the voters suffer, unheard.
We are better off Out.0 -
Don't smear the Lib Dem leader like thatdavid_herdson said:
And Nick Farron, I think?Nigelb said:
'Cockroach' was a favourite epithet of the Rwandan Interahamwe before the genocide. Rhetoric tends to reflect values; you might want to consider that.SeanT said:
No, I don't think that. I really don't. I'm a patriot AND a democrat. If my fellow Brits vote Labour, then I accept it, and wish ill on no one. I may decry their mistake, but I know they have their motives (different from mine) and that electoral fortunes will change, over time.TOPPING said:
Look me in the eye and tell me that, when Labour win a GE, you don't think: well that'll show them, they won't be laughing when they have to pay more for their beer and fags.SeanT said:
To myour own words!Dadge said:
drawbridge.SeanT said:
That's true of most Remoaners, but I think some of the more deranged - like Meeks - actively want to see the country suffer, and slide into penury and famine, as some kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.Casino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit
"The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."
Here's some advice. Take a good long look at yourself in the mirror. Bring a puke-bucket.
Go on, tell me.
These fucking Remoaner traitors are DISGUSTING. Cockroaches.0 -
Get over yourself. By your reckoning every commentator at CiF is a traitor. It's called having a belief about what is right for the country. That's more patriotic than dolts wanting to brand everyone who disagrees with them a traitor.HYUFD said:
There is a difference between being disappointed in the result of an election, fearing the worst but still getting on with it and hoping for the best and actively, positively wishing disaster on the country as a result. In centuries past such people would have been called traitorsTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.Dadge said:
It wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen. Every time I hear another story of everyday xenophobia it does make me wish my own country ill. Even if before the referendum my fellow countryidiots had an excuse for being so shitty, they certainly have no excuse now that they've voted to pull up the drawbridge.SeanT said:
That's true of most Remoaners, but I think some of the more deranged - like Meeks - actively want to see the country suffer, and slide into penury and famine, as some kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.Casino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit
"The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."0 -
I can well imagine your long-lost identical twin Saudi brother denouncing apostates in the same colourful language. Nationalist fervour, religious fervour - it's all the same illness.SeanT said:So can we be clear, is there anyone else on this site, apart from Dadge, Topping and Meeks who actually want their own country and their own countrymen to slide into ruin, and orphans to starve, women to be raped, etc etc, because they dislike the result of a freely-held referendum?
Anyone else want to fess up to these perverse and sickening urges? This pedophilia of the political soul?
Now is the time. Come forward, and we might forgive you this nauseating treachery. In time. Hold your tongue and be damned.0 -
No, the solution is for everyone to take a deep breath and be polite, whether or not they feel others deserve it or will reciprocate.SeanT said:
The answer is to just ban the Remainers. They are no longer sane, and their views are genuinely repulsive to right-thinking people. They should absent themselves, or be expelled.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Nice to see the passage of time has healed the scars of June.The losers facing up to defeat with equanimity, the winners behaving with quiet dignity and grace. Splendid - carry on.
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The French and Italians increasingly look like they will disagree.nunu said:
We were always better off Out since our legal system is so different to the Latin countries. The problem is the Germans are not accepting real transfers to poor countries like Greece so the Euro will limp on as a zombie currency.SeanT said:
Funnily enough, they are generally right. The solution to many EU problems - from the currency to migration to lack of democracy - is a proper Federal superstate, with fiscal transfers, an EU army and border force, EU police, directly elected EU president, and so on.Casino_Royale said:
There is no problem in the EU to which the answer isn't More Europe.Pagan said:well looks like got out just in time as they are mulling a fifth freedom
"The Commission said a new "principle of free movement of data within the EU" should guide decision making by EU countries affecting data storage or processing."
Trouble is too many electors and national capitals won't swallow this, so the EU is destined to remain this lumbering, malformed, half-born hybrid, always inching closer to union, but never getting there, as the voters suffer, unheard.
We are better off Out.
They are a different level of opposition to the Greeks, Cypriots and Portuguese.0 -
It only means something if it is relevant in the culture. Calling someone or a group cockroaches in Britain doesn't have connotations of genocide.Nigelb said:
'Cockroach' was a favourite epithet of the Rwandan Interahamwe before the genocide. Rhetoric tends to reflect values; you might want to consider that.SeanT said:
No, I don't think that. I really don't. I'm a patriot AND a democrat. If my fellow Brits vote Labour, then I accept it, and wish ill on no one. I may decry their mistake, but I know they have their motives (different from mine) and that electoral fortunes will change, over time.TOPPING said:
Look me in the eye and tell me that, when Labour win a GE, you don't think: well that'll show them, they won't be laughing when they have to pay more for their beer and fags.SeanT said:
To myour own words!Dadge said:
drawbridge.SeanT said:
That's true of most Remoaners, but I think some of the more deranged - like Meeks - actively want to see the country suffer, and slide into penury and famine, as some kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.Casino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit
"The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."
Here's some advice. Take a good long look at yourself in the mirror. Bring a puke-bucket.
Go on, tell me.
These fucking Remoaner traitors are DISGUSTING. Cockroaches.0 -
Nah. Sean is hugely entertaining when he's on form. He doesn't know what he believes from one Amarone to the next. I wouldn't start comparing him to people who are serious about shit.FeersumEnjineeya said:
I can well imagine your long-lost identical twin Saudi brother denouncing apostates in the same colourful language. Nationalist fervour, religious fervour - it's all the same illness.SeanT said:So can we be clear, is there anyone else on this site, apart from Dadge, Topping and Meeks who actually want their own country and their own countrymen to slide into ruin, and orphans to starve, women to be raped, etc etc, because they dislike the result of a freely-held referendum?
Anyone else want to fess up to these perverse and sickening urges? This pedophilia of the political soul?
Now is the time. Come forward, and we might forgive you this nauseating treachery. In time. Hold your tongue and be damned.0 -
Fuck off.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
No, the solution is for everyone to take a deep breath and be polite, whether or not they feel others deserve it if will reciprocate.SeanT said:
The answer is to just ban the Remainers. They are no longer sane, and their views are genuinely repulsive to right-thinking people. They should absent themselves, or be expelled.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Nice to see the passage of time has healed the scars of June.The losers facing up to defeat with equanimity, the winners behaving with quiet dignity and grace. Splendid - carry on.
Edit:
0 -
I think he smeared himself (or was that Mark Oaten?).isam said:
Don't smear the Lib Dem leader like thatdavid_herdson said:
And Nick Farron, I think?Nigelb said:
'Cockroach' was a favourite epithet of the Rwandan Interahamwe before the genocide. Rhetoric tends to reflect values; you might want to consider that.SeanT said:
No, I don't think that. I really don't. I'm a patriot AND a democrat. If my fellow Brits vote Labour, then I accept it, and wish ill on no one. I may decry their mistake, but I know they have their motives (different from mine) and that electoral fortunes will change, over time.TOPPING said:
Look me in the eye and tell me that, when Labour win a GE, you don't think: well that'll show them, they won't be laughing when they have to pay more for their beer and fags.SeanT said:
To myour own words!Dadge said:
drawbridge.SeanT said:
That's true of most Remoaners, but I think some of the more deranged - like Meeks - actively want to see the country suffer, and slide into penury and famine, as some kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.Casino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit
"The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."
Here's some advice. Take a good long look at yourself in the mirror. Bring a puke-bucket.
Go on, tell me.
These fucking Remoaner traitors are DISGUSTING. Cockroaches.0 -
Statistically, there will certainly be a small (but not entirely insignificant) minority of the population whose views and beliefs fit the definition of treason.TOPPING said:
Get over yourself. By your reckoning every commentator at CiF is a traitor. It's called having a belief about what is right for the country. That's more patriotic than dolts wanting to brand everyone who disagrees with them a traitor.HYUFD said:
There is a difference between being disappointed in the result of an election, fearing the worst but still getting on with it and hoping for the best and actively, positively wishing disaster on the country as a result. In centuries past such people would have been called traitorsTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.Dadge said:
.SeanT said:
That'sCasino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit
"The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."
This has been the case throughout history. Generally speaking, they've been ok so long as they don't act on them, and are caught.
Even then, in the modern age, they get off fairly lightly.0 -
There are a few pro Brexit commentators at CiF although it is of course Remainer central but nonetheless the time for having a belief about what was right for the country was in the referendum campaign. After the British people democratically voted to Leave then true citizens of this country would accept the result and make the best of it, perhaps even argue for soft Brexit but accept the result. However to positively wish ruin on the country just to ensure it returns to the arms of Brussels identifies someone whose loyalty lies more with the EU than their own nationTOPPING said:
Get over yourself. By your reckoning every commentator at CiF is a traitor. It's called having a belief about what is right for the country. That's more patriotic than dolts wanting to brand everyone who disagrees with them a traitor.HYUFD said:
There isTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.Dadge said:
It wouldn't be the worst thing .SeanT said:
That's true of most Remoaners, but I think some of the more deranged - like Meeks - actively want to see the country suffer, and slide into penury and famine, as some kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.Casino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit
"The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."0 -
What? You disagree?TOPPING said:
Get over yourself. By your reckoning every commentator at CiF is a traitor.HYUFD said:
There is a difference between being disappointed in the result of an election, fearing the worst but still getting on with it and hoping for the best and actively, positively wishing disaster on the country as a result. In centuries past such people would have been called traitorsTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.Dadge said:
It wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen. Every time I hear another story of everyday xenophobia it does make me wish my own country ill. Even if before the referendum my fellow countryidiots had an excuse for being so shitty, they certainly have no excuse now that they've voted to pull up the drawbridge.SeanT said:
That's true of most Remoaners, but I think some of the more deranged - like Meeks - actively want to see the country suffer, and slide into penury and famine, as some kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.Casino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit
"The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."0 -
@brokenwheel That's a very astute question. We bailed the Banks out because of the systemic risk to our entire economy and society. Arguably the collapse of functioning multiparty democracy is just as bad. In our FPTP system we need a credible alternative government. Labour has overdosed and isn't ringing an ambulance. The Lib Dems have taken themselves out of the market. The SNP are fantastic but want to destroy the country. So the case for the temporary nationalisation of the Labour Party while new management is put it and a turnaround plan is executed could be made.
Certainly Labour currently meets the two criteria for nationalisation in a free society. Systemic risk and the market being unable to replace it quickly enough.0 -
Is a CiF commentator who says "I hope Tory scum lose all their money" a traitor?Casino_Royale said:
Statistically, there will certainly be a small (but not entirely insignificant) minority of the population whose views and beliefs fit the definition of treason.TOPPING said:
Get over yourself. By your reckoning every commentator at CiF is a traitor. It's called having a belief about what is right for the country. That's more patriotic than dolts wanting to brand everyone who disagrees with them a traitor.HYUFD said:
There is a difference between being disappointed in the result of an election, fearing the worst but still getting on with it and hoping for the best and actively, positively wishing disaster on the country as a result. In centuries past such people would have been called traitorsTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.Dadge said:
.SeanT said:
That'sCasino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit
"The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."
This has been the case throughout history. Generally speaking, they've been ok so long as they don't act on them, and are caught.
Even then, in the modern age, they get off fairly lightly.0 -
Guardian article sounds very interesting.
Must say, at this point it's hard to see how the vote to LEAVE the EU could have gone any better...0 -
Not quite got the hang of a pluralist democracy, have you? I appreciate your judgement is clouded atm.SeanT said:
This is a serious question: how can you be polite to a person who wishes economic disaster on his own country - our country - simply because he personally loathes the legal, democratic decision expressed by this country's people?SirNorfolkPassmore said:
No, the solution is for everyone to take a deep breath and be polite, whether or not they feel others deserve it if will reciprocate.SeanT said:
The answer is to just ban the Remainers. They are no longer sane, and their views are genuinely repulsive to right-thinking people. They should absent themselves, or be expelled.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Nice to see the passage of time has healed the scars of June.The losers facing up to defeat with equanimity, the winners behaving with quiet dignity and grace. Splendid - carry on.
This is a traitor. There's no getting round it. A traitor is like a racist: you know it when you see it. You REALLY know it when you see it. And these are the views of a traitor.
There comes a time when you just have to call it out, as it is.0 -
Same question to you as to @Casino_Royale. Is a CiF comment that wishes harm on the military-industrial complex traitorous?HYUFD said:
There are a few pro Brexit commentators at CiF although it is of course Remainer central but nonetheless the time for having a belief about what was right for the country was in the referendum campaign. After the British people democratically voted to Leave however then true citizens of this country would accept the result and make the best of it, perhaps even argue for soft Brexit but accept the result. However to positively wish ruin on the country just to ensure it returns to the arms of Brussels identifies someone whose loyalty lies more with the EU than their own nationTOPPING said:
Get over yourself. By your reckoning every commentator at CiF is a traitor. It's called having a belief about what is right for the country. That's more patriotic than dolts wanting to brand everyone who disagrees with them a traitor.HYUFD said:
There isTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.Dadge said:
It wouldn't be the worst thing .SeanT said:
That's truesome kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.Casino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit
"The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."0 -
0
-
Serious answer - with great ease.SeanT said:
This is a serious question: how can you be polite to a person who wishes economic disaster on his own country - our country - simply because he personally loathes the legal, democratic decision expressed by this country's people?SirNorfolkPassmore said:
No, the solution is for everyone to take a deep breath and be polite, whether or not they feel others deserve it if will reciprocate.SeanT said:
The answer is to just ban the Remainers. They are no longer sane, and their views are genuinely repulsive to right-thinking people. They should absent themselves, or be expelled.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Nice to see the passage of time has healed the scars of June.The losers facing up to defeat with equanimity, the winners behaving with quiet dignity and grace. Splendid - carry on.
This is a traitor. There's no getting round it. A traitor is like a racist: you know it when you see it. You REALLY know it when you see it. And these are the views of a traitor.
There comes a time when you just have to call it out, as it is.
I also think your definition of a "traitor" is somewhat broad. Wishing ill upon your country, whilst I disapprove of it, simply is not in the same as doing ill to your country. It's the difference between wishing your enemy dead and killing them. Neither is pleasant, but they are not even close to being the same.0 -
Unpleasant but not a traitor to their own nation noTOPPING said:
Is a CiF commentator who says "I hope Tory scum lose all their money" a traitor?Casino_Royale said:
Statistically, there will certainly be a small (but not entirely insignificant) minority of the population whose views and beliefs fit the definition of treason.TOPPING said:
Get over yourself. By your reckoning every commentator at CiF is a traitor. It's called having a belief about what is right for the country. That's more patriotic than dolts wanting to brand everyone who disagrees with them a traitor.HYUFD said:
There is a difference between being disappointed in the result of an election, fearing the worst but still getting on with it and hoping for the best and actively, positively wishing disaster on the country as a result. In centuries past such people would have been called traitorsTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.Dadge said:
.SeanT said:
That'sCasino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit
"The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."
This has been the case throughout history. Generally speaking, they've been ok so long as they don't act on them, and are caught.
Even then, in the modern age, they get off fairly lightly.0 -
It's political rhetoric. Perhaps he does think that. So what? We are a democratic freedom of speech-embracing country. He can think what he wants.SeanT said:
This c*nt says he hopes the country falls into ruins JUST because it voted Leave. Your defence of this insect says a lot. Go have a tisane.TOPPING said:
Not quite got the hang of a pluralist democracy, have you? I appreciate your judgement is clouded atm.SeanT said:
This is a serious question: how can you be polite to a person who wishes economic disaster on his own country - our country - simply because he personally loathes the legal, democratic decision expressed by this country's people?SirNorfolkPassmore said:
No, the solution is for everyone to take a deep breath and be polite, whether or not they feel others deserve it if will reciprocate.SeanT said:
The answer is to just ban the Remainers. They are no longer sane, and their views are genuinely repulsive to right-thinking people. They should absent themselves, or be expelled.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Nice to see the passage of time has healed the scars of June.The losers facing up to defeat with equanimity, the winners behaving with quiet dignity and grace. Splendid - carry on.
This is a traitor. There's no getting round it. A traitor is like a racist: you know it when you see it. You REALLY know it when you see it. And these are the views of a traitor.
There comes a time when you just have to call it out, as it is.
I hope Chelsea FC falls into ruin. Is that traitorous?0 -
I've always thought that the least interesting aspect of PB is what one anonyhmous poster thinks of another anonymous poster. So "SeanT" and "HYUFD" think ill of "Topping" and "Passmore". In other news, Moriarty dislikes Holmes and Dr No takes a dim view of James Bond.
At least we vaguely know who SeanT is - some sort of scribbler of torture porn. All the others might be anyone, or indeed they might all be SeanT, giving himself an opprtunbity to vent.
On topic, I agree that Stoke is the more vulnerable of the two seats, as it's really Leave Central. A problem may be to sort out who the lead anti-Labour candidate is, as the last entence in Mike's post hints..0 -
Wonder if Red Ken got a pair of these for Christmas?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-386142760 -
Labour could just choose a Leave candidate. If so, they will walk it.NickPalmer said:On topic, I agree that Stoke is the more vulnerable of the two seats, as it's really Leave Central. A problem may be to sort out who the lead anti-Labour candidate is, as the last entence in Mike's post hints..
0 -
I would certainly not be in the least surprised if some leaks arrived in the hands of the EU negotiation team from certain 'anonymous' sources from within the civil service.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
Serious answer - with great ease.SeanT said:
This is a serious question: how can you be polite to a person who wishes economic disaster on his own country - our country - simply because he personally loathes the legal, democratic decision expressed by this country's people?SirNorfolkPassmore said:
No, the solution is for everyone to take a deep breath and be polite, whether or not they feel others deserve it if will reciprocate.SeanT said:
The answer is to just ban the Remainers. They are no longer sane, and their views are genuinely repulsive to right-thinking people. They should absent themselves, or be expelled.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Nice to see the passage of time has healed the scars of June.The losers facing up to defeat with equanimity, the winners behaving with quiet dignity and grace. Splendid - carry on.
This is a traitor. There's no getting round it. A traitor is like a racist: you know it when you see it. You REALLY know it when you see it. And these are the views of a traitor.
There comes a time when you just have to call it out, as it is.
I also think your definition of a "traitor" is somewhat broad. Wishing ill upon your country, whilst I disapprove of it, simply is not in the same as doing ill to your country. It's the difference between wishing your enemy dead and killing them. Neither is pleasant, but they are not even close to being the same.0 -
There you go then. If someone wishes ill upon those who don't agree with them it is a difference of political opinion. Perhaps it is extreme. It may well be unpleasant. But it is not traitorous.HYUFD said:
Unpleasant but not a traitor to their own nation noTOPPING said:
Is a CiF commentator who says "I hope Tory scum lose all their money" a traitor?Casino_Royale said:
Statistically, there will certainly be a small (but not entirely insignificant) minority of the population whose views and beliefs fit the definition of treason.TOPPING said:
Get over yourself. By your reckoning every commentator at CiF is a traitor. It's called having a belief about what is right for the country. That's more patriotic than dolts wanting to brand everyone who disagrees with them a traitor.HYUFD said:
There is a difference between being disappointed in the result of an election, fearing the worst but still getting on with it and hoping for the best and actively, positively wishing disaster on the country as a result. In centuries past such people would have been called traitorsTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.Dadge said:
.SeanT said:
That'sCasino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-overy."
This has been the case throughout history. Generally speaking, they've been ok so long as they don't act on them, and are caught.
Even then, in the modern age, they get off fairly lightly.0 -
That's a non-sequitur.TOPPING said:
Is a CiF commentator who says "I hope Tory scum lose all their money" a traitor?Casino_Royale said:
Statistically, there will certainly be a small (but not entirely insignificant) minority of the population whose views and beliefs fit the definition of treason.TOPPING said:
Get over yourself. By your reckoning every commentator at CiF is a traitor. It's called having a belief about what is right for the country. That's more patriotic than dolts wanting to brand everyone who disagrees with them a traitor.HYUFD said:
There is a difference between being disappointed in the result of an election, fearing the worst but still getting on with it and hoping for the best and actively, positively wishing disaster on the country as a result. In centuries past such people would have been called traitorsTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.Dadge said:
.SeanT said:
That'sCasino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
This has been the case throughout history. Generally speaking, they've been ok so long as they don't act on them, and are caught.
Even then, in the modern age, they get off fairly lightly.
What I said was factually correct: betrayal is a fundamental part of human behaviour.
Anyone can betray anyone and, in every society, there will be those who will either sympathise with betraying, or have a predisposition to actively betray, its wider interests for reasons best known to, and justified by, those same individuals.0 -
No, as that is about how a nation is governed not about wishing ruination on the whole nation so that it cannot function as an independent stateTOPPING said:
Same question to you as to @Casino_Royale. Is a CiF comment that wishes harm on the military-industrial complex traitorous?HYUFD said:
There are a few pro Brexit commentators at CiF although it is of course Remainer central but nonetheless the timeTOPPING said:
Get over yourself. By your reckoning every commentator at CiF is a traitor. It's called having a belief about what is right for the country. That's more patriotic than dolts wanting to brand everyone who disagrees with them a traitor.HYUFD said:
There isTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.Dadge said:
It wouldn't be the worst thing .SeanT said:
That's truesome kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.Casino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit
"The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."0 -
Maybe Arron Banks will fund a big Ukip push
https://twitter.com/arron_banks/status/820036982575419392
0 -
A LEAVE candidate like Jezza?chestnut said:
Labour could just choose a Leave candidate. If so, they will walk it.NickPalmer said:On topic, I agree that Stoke is the more vulnerable of the two seats, as it's really Leave Central. A problem may be to sort out who the lead anti-Labour candidate is, as the last entence in Mike's post hints..
Guess they could parachute in Dr Palmer.0 -
I'd say that's almost a certainty.HYUFD said:
I would certainly not be in the least surprised if some leaks arrived in the hands of the EU negotiation team from certain 'anonymous' sources from within the civil service.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
Serious answer - with great ease.SeanT said:
This is a serious question: how can you be polite to a person who wishes economic disaster on his own country - our country - simply because he personally loathes the legal, democratic decision expressed by this country's people?SirNorfolkPassmore said:
No, the solution is for everyone to take a deep breath and be polite, whether or not they feel others deserve it if will reciprocate.SeanT said:
The answer is to just ban the Remainers. They are no longer sane, and their views are genuinely repulsive to right-thinking people. They should absent themselves, or be expelled.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Nice to see the passage of time has healed the scars of June.The losers facing up to defeat with equanimity, the winners behaving with quiet dignity and grace. Splendid - carry on.
This is a traitor. There's no getting round it. A traitor is like a racist: you know it when you see it. You REALLY know it when you see it. And these are the views of a traitor.
There comes a time when you just have to call it out, as it is.
I also think your definition of a "traitor" is somewhat broad. Wishing ill upon your country, whilst I disapprove of it, simply is not in the same as doing ill to your country. It's the difference between wishing your enemy dead and killing them. Neither is pleasant, but they are not even close to being the same.0 -
So that's a no then.SeanT said:
Stop adding the appelation "tedious dickhead" to the description "happily defends treachery", which you have already so righteously earned.TOPPING said:
It's political rhetoric. Perhaps he does think that. So what? We are a democratic freedom of speech-embracing country. He can think what he wants.SeanT said:
This c*nt says he hopes the country falls into ruins JUST because it voted Leave. Your defence of this insect says a lot. Go have a tisane.TOPPING said:
Not quite got the hang of a pluralist democracy, have you? I appreciate your judgement is clouded atm.SeanT said:
This is a serious question: how can you be polite to a person who wishes economic disaster on his own country - our country - simply because he personally loathes the legal, democratic decision expressed by this country's people?SirNorfolkPassmore said:
No, the solution is for everyone to take a deep breath and be polite, whether or not they feel others deserve it if will reciprocate.SeanT said:
The answer is to just ban the Remainers. They are no longer sane, and their views are genuinely repulsive to right-thinking people. They should absent themselves, or be expelled.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Nice to see the passage of time has healed the scars of June.The losers facing up to defeat with equanimity, the winners behaving with quiet dignity and grace. Splendid - carry on.
This is a traitor. There's no getting round it. A traitor is like a racist: you know it when you see it. You REALLY know it when you see it. And these are the views of a traitor.
There comes a time when you just have to call it out, as it is.
I hope Chelsea FC falls into ruin. Is that traitorous?0 -
I can assure you I am not SeanT and I do not wish ill on them as people but it is very hard to dispute that wishing disaster upon your nation is anything other than treacherous and to your credit I have never heard such comments from you despite the fact you were a pretty strong RemainerNickPalmer said:I've always thought that the least interesting aspect of PB is what one anonyhmous poster thinks of another anonymous poster. So "SeanT" and "HYUFD" think ill of "Topping" and "Passmore". In other news, Moriarty dislikes Holmes and Dr No takes a dim view of James Bond.
At least we vaguely know who SeanT is - some sort of scribbler of torture porn. All the others might be anyone, or indeed they might all be SeanT, giving himself an opprtunbity to vent.
On topic, I agree that Stoke is the more vulnerable of the two seats, as it's really Leave Central. A problem may be to sort out who the lead anti-Labour candidate is, as the last entence in Mike's post hints..
Disagree on Stoke though, Copeland is much closer between the Tories and Labour than Stoke is between UKIP and Labour and the Tories have increased their poll rating since the election unlike UKIP0 -
Edit: although, another advantage of having May as PM is she plays her cards so close to her chest they're practically surgically inserted beneath the epidermis.Casino_Royale said:
I'd say that's almost a certainty.HYUFD said:
I would certainly not be in the least surprised if some leaks arrived in the hands of the EU negotiation team from certain 'anonymous' sources from within the civil service.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
Serious answer - with great ease.SeanT said:
This is a serious question: how can you be polite to a person who wishes economic disaster on his own country - our country - simply because he personally loathes the legal, democratic decision expressed by this country's people?SirNorfolkPassmore said:
No, the solution is for everyone to take a deep breath and be polite, whether or not they feel others deserve it if will reciprocate.SeanT said:
The answer is to just ban the Remainers. They are no longer sane, and their views are genuinely repulsive to right-thinking people. They should absent themselves, or be expelled.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Nice to see the passage of time has healed the scars of June.The losers facing up to defeat with equanimity, the winners behaving with quiet dignity and grace. Splendid - carry on.
This is a traitor. There's no getting round it. A traitor is like a racist: you know it when you see it. You REALLY know it when you see it. And these are the views of a traitor.
There comes a time when you just have to call it out, as it is.
I also think your definition of a "traitor" is somewhat broad. Wishing ill upon your country, whilst I disapprove of it, simply is not in the same as doing ill to your country. It's the difference between wishing your enemy dead and killing them. Neither is pleasant, but they are not even close to being the same.0 -
I just laugh at it. I think its incredibly funny that nearly seven months on remainers are still frothing at the mouth over the decision to leave the EU...SeanT said:If nothing else, tonight has been an astonishing insight into the "liberal", europhile Remainer mindset.
For which, much thanks.
And what makes it even funnier is that everything has gone so bloody well!. Literally in the wildest dreams of the most committed leaver, where we are now, seven months from the vote, things couldn't have gone any better.0 -
Dadge, apparently, wishes harm on the UK for voting Leave. Aside from the fact that he may be using a rhetorical device on a discussion forum, that does not make him a traitor. Suppose I said I hated THFC supporters and wanted them to stub their toe on the kitchen table. Unambiguously wishing harm on fellow citizens. Would that make me a traitor?Casino_Royale said:
That's a non-sequitur.TOPPING said:
Is a CiF commentator who says "I hope Tory scum lose all their money" a traitor?Casino_Royale said:
Statistically, there will certainly be a small (but not entirely insignificant) minority of the population whose views and beliefs fit the definition of treason.TOPPING said:
Get over yourself. By your reckoning every commentator at CiF is a traitor. It's called having a belief about what is right for the country. That's more patriotic than dolts wanting to brand everyone who disagrees with them a traitor.HYUFD said:
There is as a result. In centuries past such people would have been called traitorsTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would beDadge said:
.SeanT said:
That'sCasino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
This has been the case throughout history. Generally speaking, they've been ok so long as they don't act on them, and are caught.
Even then, in the modern age, they get off fairly lightly.
What I said was factually correct: betrayal is a fundamental part of human behaviour.
Anyone can betray anyone and, in every society, there will be those who will either sympathise with betraying, or have a predisposition to actively betray, its wider interests for reasons best known to, and justified by, those same individuals.0 -
It is traitorous to wish it upon the entire nationTOPPING said:
There you go then. If someone wishes ill upon those who don't agree with them it is a difference of political opinion. Perhaps it is extreme. It may well be unpleasant. But it is not traitorous.HYUFD said:
Unpleasant but not a traitor to their own nation noTOPPING said:
Is a CiF commentator who says "I hope Tory scum lose all their money" a traitor?Casino_Royale said:
Statistically, there will certainlyTOPPING said:
Get over yourself. By your reckoning every commentator at CiF is a traitor. It's called having a belief about what is right for the country. That's more patriotic than dolts wanting to brand everyone who disagrees with them a traitor.HYUFD said:
There is a difference between being disappointed in the result of an election, fearing the worst but still getting on with it and hoping for the best and actively, positively wishing disaster on the country as a result. In centuries past such people would have been called traitorsTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.Dadge said:
.SeanT said:
That'sCasino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-overy."
Even then, in the modern age, they get off fairly lightly.0 -
For what it's worth, I don't place you in that category.TOPPING said:
There you go then. If someone wishes ill upon those who don't agree with them it is a difference of political opinion. Perhaps it is extreme. It may well be unpleasant. But it is not traitorous.HYUFD said:
Unpleasant but not a traitor to their own nation noTOPPING said:
Is a CiF commentator who says "I hope Tory scum lose all their money" a traitor?Casino_Royale said:
STOPPING said:
GetHYUFD said:
ThereTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.Dadge said:
.SeanT said:
That'sCasino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-overy."
My reading of you is that you don't much care for Brexit, think it's damaging, expensive and a waste of time, but you don't actively wish the country ill.0 -
Pace your self everyone. Brexit is like the Winter of Discontent/Thatcher winning. Or the Miner's Strike. Or Iraq. Or perhaps even joining the EEC. We're going to be talking about it for a very long time indeed. It will frame almost everything until something as large comes along and reframes it. So pace yourselves. Chillax.0
-
Just you wait!!!! Disaster is loomingGIN1138 said:
I just laugh at it. I think its incredibly funny that nearly seven months on remainers are still frothing at the mouth over the decision to leave the EU...SeanT said:If nothing else, tonight has been an astonishing insight into the "liberal", europhile Remainer mindset.
For which, much thanks.
And what makes it even funnier is that everything has gone so bloody well!. Literally in the wildest dreams of the most committed leaver, where we are now, seven months from the vote, things couldn't have gone any better.
Spike Milligan style 'Told you I was ill'0 -
Except to true leavers like me May's government actions on Brexit has looked like a slow motion movie.GIN1138 said:
I just laugh at it. I think its incredibly funny that nearly seven months on remainers are still frothing at the mouth over the decision to leave the EU...SeanT said:If nothing else, tonight has been an astonishing insight into the "liberal", europhile Remainer mindset.
For which, much thanks.
And what makes it even funnier is that everything has gone so bloody well!. Literally in the wildest dreams of the most committed leaver, where we are now, seven months from the vote, things couldn't have gone any better.0 -
If so and they are discovered they should be treated in the same way as Philby and Burgess were when they leaked state secrets to MoscowCasino_Royale said:
I'd say that's almost a certainty.HYUFD said:
I would certainly not be in the least surprised if some leaks arrived in the hands of the EU negotiation team from certain 'anonymous' sources from within the civil service.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
Serious answer - with great ease.SeanT said:
This is a serious question: how can you be polite to a person who wishes economic disaster on his own country - our country - simply because he personally loathes the legal, democratic decision expressed by this country's people?SirNorfolkPassmore said:
No, the solution is for everyone to take a deep breath and be polite, whether or not they feel others deserve it if will reciprocate.SeanT said:
The answer is to just ban the Remainers. They are no longer sane, and their views are genuinely repulsive to right-thinking people. They should absent themselves, or be expelled.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Nice to see the passage of time has healed the scars of June.The losers facing up to defeat with equanimity, the winners behaving with quiet dignity and grace. Splendid - carry on.
This is a traitor. There's no getting round it. A traitor is like a racist: you know it when you see it. You REALLY know it when you see it. And these are the views of a traitor.
There comes a time when you just have to call it out, as it is.
I also think your definition of a "traitor" is somewhat broad. Wishing ill upon your country, whilst I disapprove of it, simply is not in the same as doing ill to your country. It's the difference between wishing your enemy dead and killing them. Neither is pleasant, but they are not even close to being the same.0 -
Dear god man don't give the game away.Casino_Royale said:
For what it's worth, I don't place you in that category.TOPPING said:
There you go then. If someone wishes ill upon those who don't agree with them it is a difference of political opinion. Perhaps it is extreme. It may well be unpleasant. But it is not traitorous.HYUFD said:
Unpleasant but not a traitor to their own nation noTOPPING said:
Is a CiF commentator who says "I hope Tory scum lose all their money" a traitor?Casino_Royale said:
STOPPING said:
GetHYUFD said:
ThereTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.Dadge said:
.SeanT said:
That'sCasino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-overy."
My reading of you is that you don't much care for Brexit, think it's damaging, expensive and a waste of time, but you don't actively wish the country ill.0 -
Philby and Burgess took action against our country. Anonymous internet frothers venting frustration online have not.HYUFD said:
If so and they are discovered they should be treated in the same way as Philby and Burgess were when they leaked state secrets to MoscowCasino_Royale said:
I'd say that's almost a certainty.HYUFD said:
I would certainly not be in the least surprised if some leaks arrived in the hands of the EU negotiation team from certain 'anonymous' sources from within the civil service.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
Serious answer - with great ease.SeanT said:
This is a serious question: how can you be polite to a person who wishes economic disaster on his own country - our country - simply because he personally loathes the legal, democratic decision expressed by this country's people?SirNorfolkPassmore said:
No, the solution is for everyone to take a deep breath and be polite, whether or not they feel others deserve it if will reciprocate.SeanT said:
The answer is to just ban the Remainers. They are no longer sane, and their views are genuinely repulsive to right-thinking people. They should absent themselves, or be expelled.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Nice to see the passage of time has healed the scars of June.The losers facing up to defeat with equanimity, the winners behaving with quiet dignity and grace. Splendid - carry on.
This is a traitor. There's no getting round it. A traitor is like a racist: you know it when you see it. You REALLY know it when you see it. And these are the views of a traitor.
There comes a time when you just have to call it out, as it is.
I also think your definition of a "traitor" is somewhat broad. Wishing ill upon your country, whilst I disapprove of it, simply is not in the same as doing ill to your country. It's the difference between wishing your enemy dead and killing them. Neither is pleasant, but they are not even close to being the same.0 -
No it's not. That would mean every Millwall fan was a traitor.HYUFD said:
It is traitorous to wish it upon the entire nationTOPPING said:
There you go then. If someone wishes ill upon those who don't agree with them it is a difference of political opinion. Perhaps it is extreme. It may well be unpleasant. But it is not traitorous.HYUFD said:
Unpleasant but not a traitor to their own nation noTOPPING said:
Is a CiF commentator who says "I hope Tory scum lose all their money" a traitor?Casino_Royale said:
Statistically, there will certainlyTOPPING said:
Get over yourself. By your reckoning every commentator at CiF is a traitor. It's called having a belief about what is right for the country. That's more patriotic than dolts wanting to brand everyone who disagrees with them a traitor.HYUFD said:
There is a difference between being disappointed in the result of an election, fearing the worst but still getting on with it and hoping for the best and actively, positively wishing disaster on the country as a result. In centuries past such people would have been called traitorsTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.Dadge said:
.SeanT said:
That'sCasino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclaysting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-overy."
Even then, in the modern age, they get off fairly lightly.
You can't have it both ways. Wishing harm on a few people: ok. Wishing harm on a lot of people: traitor.
No, sorry. Logic fail.0 -
You obviously misread the context of that post, it was in relation to senior civil servants leaking key information to the EU negotiating teamPhilip_Thompson said:
Philby and Burgess took action against our country. Anonymous internet frothers venting frustration online have not.HYUFD said:
If so and they are discovered they should be treated in the same way as Philby and Burgess were when they leaked state secrets to MoscowCasino_Royale said:
I'd say that's almost a certainty.HYUFD said:
I would certainly not be in the least surprised if some leaks arrived in the hands of the EU negotiation team from certain 'anonymous' sources from within the civil service.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
Serious answer - with great ease.SeanT said:
This is a serious question: how can you be polite to a person who wishes economic disaster on his own country - our country - simply because he personally loathes the legal, democratic decision expressed by this country's people?SirNorfolkPassmore said:
No, the solution is for everyone to take a deep breath and be polite, whether or not they feel others deserve it if will reciprocate.SeanT said:
The answer is to just ban the Remainers. They are no longer sane, and their views are genuinely repulsive to right-thinking people. They should absent themselves, or be expelled.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Nice to see the passage of time has healed the scars of June.The losers facing up to defeat with equanimity, the winners behaving with quiet dignity and grace. Splendid - carry on.
This is a traitor. There's no getting round it. A traitor is like a racist: you know it when you see it. You REALLY know it when you see it. And these are the views of a traitor.
There comes a time when you just have to call it out, as it is.
I also think your definition of a "traitor" is somewhat broad. Wishing ill upon your country, whilst I disapprove of it, simply is not in the same as doing ill to your country. It's the difference between wishing your enemy dead and killing them. Neither is pleasant, but they are not even close to being the same.0 -
Treachery by definition involves actions not just wishes.SeanT said:
He wishes harm on all of the UK and its citizens simply for *being* the UK and its citizens. Yes of course that is treachery. If it isn't, the word "treachery" has no meaning.TOPPING said:
Dadge, apparently, wishes harm on the UK for voting Leave. Aside from the fact that he may be using a rhetorical device on a discussion forum, that does not make him a traitor. Suppose I said I hated THFC supporters and wanted them to stub their toe on the kitchen table. Unambiguously wishing harm on fellow citizens. Would that make me a traitor?Casino_Royale said:
That's aame individuals.TOPPING said:
Is a CiF commentator who says "I hope Tory scum lose all their money" a traitor?Casino_Royale said:
Statisticall, they get off fairly lightly.TOPPING said:
Get over yourself. By your reckoning every commentator at CiF is a traitor. It's called having a belief about what is right for the country. That's more patriotic than dolts wanting to brand everyone who disagrees with them a traitor.HYUFD said:
There is as a result. In centuries past such people would have been called traitorsTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would beDadge said:
.SeanT said:
That'sCasino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
I've long despised your Remainery views, but otherwise considered you fairly sensible. This discourse is beneath you, and rather sad. Disavow this wanker, and we shall hear no more.0 -
Well it would have been nice if Cameron would've followed through and triggered A50 on the morning after the referendum but we are where we are and things about to start cranking up very soon!MikeK said:
Except to true leavers like me May's government actions on Brexit has looked like a slow motion movie.GIN1138 said:
I just laugh at it. I think its incredibly funny that nearly seven months on remainers are still frothing at the mouth over the decision to leave the EU...SeanT said:If nothing else, tonight has been an astonishing insight into the "liberal", europhile Remainer mindset.
For which, much thanks.
And what makes it even funnier is that everything has gone so bloody well!. Literally in the wildest dreams of the most committed leaver, where we are now, seven months from the vote, things couldn't have gone any better.0 -
Oh they should be fired at least if they do that. Sorry I thought it was about online posters.HYUFD said:
You obviously misread the context of that post, it was in relation to senior civil servants leaking key information to the EU negotiating teamPhilip_Thompson said:
Philby and Burgess took action against our country. Anonymous internet frothers venting frustration online have not.HYUFD said:
If so and they are discovered they should be treated in the same way as Philby and Burgess were when they leaked state secrets to MoscowCasino_Royale said:
I'd say that's almost a certainty.HYUFD said:
I would certainly not be in the least surprised if some leaks arrived in the hands of the EU negotiation team from certain 'anonymous' sources from within the civil service.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
Serious answer - with great ease.SeanT said:
This is a serious question: how can you be polite to a person who wishes economic disaster on his own country - our country - simply because he personally loathes the legal, democratic decision expressed by this country's people?SirNorfolkPassmore said:
No, the solution is for everyone to take a deep breath and be polite, whether or not they feel others deserve it if will reciprocate.SeanT said:
The answer is to just ban the Remainers. They are no longer sane, and their views are genuinely repulsive to right-thinking people. They should absent themselves, or be expelled.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Nice to see the passage of time has healed the scars of June.The losers facing up to defeat with equanimity, the winners behaving with quiet dignity and grace. Splendid - carry on.
This is a traitor. There's no getting round it. A traitor is like a racist: you know it when you see it. You REALLY know it when you see it. And these are the views of a traitor.
There comes a time when you just have to call it out, as it is.
I also think your definition of a "traitor" is somewhat broad. Wishing ill upon your country, whilst I disapprove of it, simply is not in the same as doing ill to your country. It's the difference between wishing your enemy dead and killing them. Neither is pleasant, but they are not even close to being the same.0 -
What if the failed care home is already in public ownership?YellowSubmarine said:Jeremy Corbyn vows to take failed care homes into public ownership
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/13/jeremy-corbyn-vows-to-take-failed-care-homes-into-public-ownership?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard0 -
Isn't the distinction being made here between wishing harm on your opponents and wishing harm on everyone?TOPPING said:
No it's not. That would mean every Millwall fan was a traitor.
You can't have it both ways. Wishing harm on a few people: ok. Wishing harm on a lot of people: traitor.
No, sorry. Logic fail.0 -
Wishing harm does not = traitor.SeanT said:
He wishes harm on all of the UK and its citizens simply for *being* the UK and its citizens. Yes of course that is treachery. If it isn't, the word "treachery" has no meaning.TOPPING said:
Dadge, apparently, wishes harm on the UK for voting Leave. Aside from the fact that he may be using a rhetorical device on a discussion forum, that does not make him a traitor. Suppose I said I hated THFC supporters and wanted them to stub their toe on the kitchen table. Unambiguously wishing harm on fellow citizens. Would that make me a traitor?Casino_Royale said:
That's aame individuals.TOPPING said:
Is a CiF commentator who says "I hope Tory scum lose all their money" a traitor?Casino_Royale said:
Statisticall, they get off fairly lightly.TOPPING said:
Get over yourself. By your reckoning every commentator at CiF is a traitor. It's called having a belief about what is right for the country. That's more patriotic than dolts wanting to brand everyone who disagrees with them a traitor.HYUFD said:
There is as a result. In centuries past such people would have been called traitorsTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would beDadge said:
.SeanT said:
That'sCasino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
I've long despised your Remainery views, but otherwise considered you fairly sensible. This discourse is beneath you, and rather sad. Disavow this wanker, and we shall hear no more.
And yes I am getting boring so on that bombshell..
Goodnight.0 -
Thanks. On Stoke, I don't think UKIP has any real chance, but the Tories do, if they can avoid the anti-Labour vote going to LibDems, UKIP or others. In Copeland, my guess is that Labour will be OK. But I'm no kind of expert on either area.HYUFD said:...d to your credit I have never heard such comments from you despite the fact you were a pretty strong Remainer
Disagree on Stoke though, Copeland is much closer between the Tories and Labour than Stoke is between UKIP and Labour and the Tories have increased their poll rating since the election unlike UKIP
0 -
I know how much you enjoy these rather pedantic debates ;-)TOPPING said:
Dear god man don't give the game away.Casino_Royale said:
For what it's worth, I don't place you in that category.TOPPING said:
There you go then. If someone wishes ill upon those who don't agree with them it is a difference of political opinion. Perhaps it is extreme. It may well be unpleasant. But it is not traitorous.HYUFD said:
Unpleasant but not a traitor to their own nation noTOPPING said:
Is a CiF commentator who says "I hope Tory scum lose all their money" a traitor?Casino_Royale said:
STOPPING said:
GetHYUFD said:
ThereTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.Dadge said:
.SeanT said:
That'sCasino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-overy."
My reading of you is that you don't much care for Brexit, think it's damaging, expensive and a waste of time, but you don't actively wish the country ill.
Don't we all?0 -
Bon nuit.Casino_Royale said:
I know how much you enjoy these rather pedantic debates ;-)TOPPING said:
Dear god man don't give the game away.Casino_Royale said:
For what it's worth, I don't place you in that category.TOPPING said:
There you go then. If someone wishes ill upon those who don't agree with them it is a difference of political opinion. Perhaps it is extreme. It may well be unpleasant. But it is not traitorous.HYUFD said:
Unpleasant but not a traitor to their own nation noTOPPING said:
Is a CiF commentator who says "I hope Tory scum lose all their money" a traitor?Casino_Royale said:
STOPPING said:
GetHYUFD said:
ThereTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.Dadge said:
.SeanT said:
That'sCasino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-overy."
My reading of you is that you don't much care for Brexit, think it's damaging, expensive and a waste of time, but you don't actively wish the country ill.
Don't we all?0 -
14/1 tories on Betfair, get stuck inNickPalmer said:
Thanks. On Stoke, I don't think UKIP has any real chance, but the Tories do, if they can avoid the anti-Labour vote going to LibDems, UKIP or others. In Copeland, my guess is that Labour will be OK. But I'm no kind of expert on either area.HYUFD said:...d to your credit I have never heard such comments from you despite the fact you were a pretty strong Remainer
Disagree on Stoke though, Copeland is much closer between the Tories and Labour than Stoke is between UKIP and Labour and the Tories have increased their poll rating since the election unlike UKIP0 -
0
-
No. A traitor betrays. Wishing harm is not betrayal.RobD said:
Isn't the distinction being made here between wishing harm on your opponents and wishing harm on everyone?TOPPING said:
No it's not. That would mean every Millwall fan was a traitor.
You can't have it both ways. Wishing harm on a few people: ok. Wishing harm on a lot of people: traitor.
No, sorry. Logic fail.
Good effing night!0 -
A traitor is someone who betrays their country, someone who wishes ill on the country of their birth is a different proposition from someone who wishes harm on an individual or group, distasteful though that may beTOPPING said:
No it's not. That would mean every Millwall fan was a traitor.HYUFD said:
It is traitorous to wish it upon the entire nationTOPPING said:
There .HYUFD said:
Unpleasant but not a traitor to their own nation noTOPPING said:
Is a CiF commentator who says "I hope Tory scum lose all their money" a traitor?Casino_Royale said:
Statistically, there will certainlyTOPPING said:
Get over yourself. By your reckoning every commentator at CiF is a traitor. It's called having a belief about what is right for the country. That's more patriotic than dolts wanting to brand everyone who disagrees with them a traitor.HYUFD said:
There is a difference between being disappointed in the result of an election, fearing the worst but still getting on with it and hoping for the best and actively, positively wishing disaster on the country as a result. In centuries past such people would have been called traitorsTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.Dadge said:
.SeanT said:
That'sCasino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclaysting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-overy."
Even then, in the modern age, they get off fairly lightly.
You can't have it both ways. Wishing harm on a few people: ok. Wishing harm on a lot of people: traitor.
No, sorry. Logic fail.-1 -
They would just be sacked, in reality.Philip_Thompson said:
Oh they should be fired at least if they do that. Sorry I thought it was about online posters.HYUFD said:
You obviously misread the context of that post, it was in relation to senior civil servants leaking key information to the EU negotiating teamPhilip_Thompson said:
Philby and Burgess took action against our country. Anonymous internet frothers venting frustration online have not.HYUFD said:
If so and they are discovered they should be treated in the same way as Philby and Burgess were when they leaked state secrets to MoscowCasino_Royale said:
I'd say that's almost a certainty.HYUFD said:
I would certainly not be in the least surprised if some leaks arrived in the hands of the EU negotiation team from certain 'anonymous' sources from within the civil service.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
Serious answer - with great ease.SeanT said:
This is a serious question: how can you be polite to a person who wishes economic disaster on his own country - our country - simply because he personally loathes the legal, democratic decision expressed by this country's people?SirNorfolkPassmore said:
No, the solution is for everyone to take a deep breath and be polite, whether or not they feel others deserve it if will reciprocate.SeanT said:
The answer is to just ban the Remainers. They are no longer sane, and their views are genuinely repulsive to right-thinking people. They should absent themselves, or be expelled.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Nice to see the passage of time has healed the scars of June.The losers facing up to defeat with equanimity, the winners behaving with quiet dignity and grace. Splendid - carry on.
This is a traitor. There's no getting round it. A traitor is like a racist: you know it when you see it. You REALLY know it when you see it. And these are the views of a traitor.
There comes a time when you just have to call it out, as it is.
I also think your definition of a "traitor" is somewhat broad. Wishing ill upon your country, whilst I disapprove of it, simply is not in the same as doing ill to your country. It's the difference between wishing your enemy dead and killing them. Neither is pleasant, but they are not even close to being the same.
I'm not a lawyer, but I presume a prosecution for treason would nowadays be a rather high test, probably related to the Official Secrets Act, and a bit more than just means, motive, and opportunity.0 -
Good effing night to you tooTOPPING said:
No. A traitor betrays. Wishing harm is not betrayal.RobD said:
Isn't the distinction being made here between wishing harm on your opponents and wishing harm on everyone?TOPPING said:
No it's not. That would mean every Millwall fan was a traitor.
You can't have it both ways. Wishing harm on a few people: ok. Wishing harm on a lot of people: traitor.
No, sorry. Logic fail.
Good effing night!
0 -
Can we swap Gisela Stuart and John Mann for Soubry and Wollaston?Chris_A said:Always knew Dr Wollaston was a good 'Un
https://twitter.com/sarahwollaston/status/820055263004815360
Pleeease.0 -
IndeedPhilip_Thompson said:
Oh they should be fired at least if they do that. Sorry I thought it was about online posters.HYUFD said:
You obviously misread the context of that post, it was in relation to senior civil servants leaking key information to the EU negotiating teamPhilip_Thompson said:
Philby and Burgess took action against our country. Anonymous internet frothers venting frustration online have not.HYUFD said:
If so and they are discovered they should be treated in the same way as Philby and Burgess were when they leaked state secrets to MoscowCasino_Royale said:
I'd say that's almost a certainty.HYUFD said:
I would certainly not be in the least surprised if some leaks arrived in the hands of the EU negotiation team from certain 'anonymous' sources from within the civil service.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
Serious answer - with great ease.SeanT said:
This is a serious question: how can you be polite to a person who wishes economic disaster on his own country - our country - simply because he personally loathes the legal, democratic decision expressed by this country's people?SirNorfolkPassmore said:
No, the solution is for everyone to take a deep breath and be polite, whether or not they feel others deserve it if will reciprocate.SeanT said:
The answer is to just ban the Remainers. They are no longer sane, and their views are genuinely repulsive to right-thinking people. They should absent themselves, or be expelled.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Nice to see the passage of time has healed the scars of June.The losers facing up to defeat with equanimity, the winners behaving with quiet dignity and grace. Splendid - carry on.
This is a traitor. There's no getting round it. A traitor is like a racist: you know it when you see it. You REALLY know it when you see it. And these are the views of a traitor.
There comes a time when you just have to call it out, as it is.
I also think your definition of a "traitor" is somewhat broad. Wishing ill upon your country, whilst I disapprove of it, simply is not in the same as doing ill to your country. It's the difference between wishing your enemy dead and killing them. Neither is pleasant, but they are not even close to being the same.0 -
Yes. Wishing harm is not betrayal. Thank you. And goodnight.HYUFD said:
A traitor is someone who betrays their country, someone who wishes ill on the country of their birth is a different proposition from someone who wishes harm on an individual or group, distasteful though that may beTOPPING said:
No it's not. That would mean every Millwall fan was a traitor.HYUFD said:
It is traitorous to wish it upon the entire nationTOPPING said:
There .HYUFD said:
Unpleasant but not a traitor to their own nation noTOPPING said:
Is a CiF commentator who says "I hope Tory scum lose all their money" a traitor?Casino_Royale said:
Statistically, there will certainlyTOPPING said:
Get over yourself. By your reckoning every commentator at CiF is a traitor. It's called having a belief about what is right for the country. That's more patriotic than dolts wanting to brand everyone who disagrees with them a traitor.HYUFD said:
There is a difference between being disappointed in the result of an election, fearing the worst but still getting on with it and hoping for the best and actively, positively wishing disaster on the country as a result. In centuries past such people would have been called traitorsTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It er.Dadge said:
.SeanT said:
That'sCasino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclaysting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-overy."
Even then, in the modern age, they get off fairly lightly.
You can't have it both ways. Wishing harm on a few people: ok. Wishing harm on a lot of people: traitor.
No, sorry. Logic fail.0 -
What will be interesting, in the lead up to the Stoke by election, is how the Tories on here who hate May, and constantly wish her to fail, contort their logic so as not to appear disloyal. They obviously want the Lib Dems to win
Maybe it will be 'I backed the lib Dems at x/1' a la the London mayoral market which let them cheer Sadiq0 -
I think a lot of what has gone wrong with the NHS is down to GP's - If you can't get hold of a doctor out of hours then where are you going to go? Hospital!Chris_A said:Always knew Dr Wollaston was a good 'Un
https://twitter.com/sarahwollaston/status/820055263004815360
When GP's decided they would only look after their patients from 9am-5pm Monday to Friday in 2004 it signaled they are just in it for the money, IMO.
Mind you, I've had very bad experiences at the hands of my GP practice so that might be clouding my view.0 -
How is "wishes ill" a betrayal? Betrayals involve actions not wishes.HYUFD said:A traitor is someone who betrays their country, someone who wishes ill on the country of their birth is a different proposition from someone who wishes harm on an individual or group, distasteful though that may be
0 -
Well if they were leaking highly classified information to what would be in effect a foreign power in all but name that almost certainly be a breach of the Official Secrets ActCasino_Royale said:
They would just be sacked, in reality.Philip_Thompson said:
Oh they should be fired at least if they do that. Sorry I thought it was about online posters.HYUFD said:
You obviously misread the context of that post,Philip_Thompson said:
Philby and Burgess took action against our country. Anonymous internet frothers venting frustration online have not.HYUFD said:
If so and they are discovered they should be treated in the same way as Philby and Burgess were when they leaked state secrets to MoscowCasino_Royale said:
I'd say that's almost a certainty.HYUFD said:
I would certainly not be in the least surprised if some leaks .SirNorfolkPassmore said:
Serious answer - with great ease.SeanT said:
This is a serious question: how can you be polite to a person who wishes economic disaster on his own country - our country - simply because he personally loathes the legal, democratic decision expressed by this country's people?SirNorfolkPassmore said:
No, the solution is for everyone to take a deep breath and be polite, whether or not they feel others deserve it if will reciprocate.SeanT said:
The answer is to just ban the Remainers. They are no longer sane, and their views are genuinely repulsive to right-thinking people. They should absent themselves, or be expelled.SirNorfolkPassmore said:Nice to see the passage of time has healed the scars of June.The losers facing up to defeat with equanimity, the winners behaving with quiet dignity and grace. Splendid - carry on.
This is a traitor. There's no getting round it. A traitor is like a racist: you know it when you see it. You REALLY know it when you see it. And these are the views of a traitor.
There comes a time when you just have to call it out, as it is.
I also think your definition of a "traitor" is somewhat broad. Wishing ill upon your country, whilst I disapprove of it, simply is not in the same as doing ill to your country. It's the difference between wishing your enemy dead and killing them. Neither is pleasant, but they are not even close to being the same.
I'm not a lawyer, but I presume a prosecution for treason would nowadays be a rather high test, probably related to the Official Secrets Act, and a bit more than just means, motive, and opportunity.0 -
Again Enoch is the man to look to for moral guidance
'Edward Norman (then Dean of Peterhouse) had attempted to mount a Christian argument for nuclear weapons. The discussion moved on to 'Western values'. Mrs Thatcher said (in effect) that Norman had shown that the Bomb was necessary for the defence of our values. Powell: 'No, we do not fight for values. I would fight for this country even if it had a communist government.' Thatcher (it was just before the Argentinian invasion of the Falklands): ‘Nonsense, Enoch. If I send British troops abroad, it will be to defend our values.' 'No, Prime Minister, values exist in a transcendental realm, beyond space and time. They can neither be fought for, nor destroyed.' Mrs Thatcher looked utterly baffled. She had just been presented with the difference between Toryism and American Republicanism.'
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Powell0 -
When did GP's decide that?GIN1138 said:
I think a lot of what has gone wrong with the NHS is down to GP's - If you can't get hold of a doctor out of hours then where are you going to go? Hospital!Chris_A said:Always knew Dr Wollaston was a good 'Un
https://twitter.com/sarahwollaston/status/820055263004815360
When GP's decided they would only look after their patients from 9am-5pm Monday to Friday in 2004 it signaled they are just in it for the money, IMO.
Mind you, I've had very bad experiences at the hands of my GP practice so that might be clouding my view.
The government of the day decided that was OK and agreed to it. That was their monumental f**k up, not the GP's.0 -
You are born into a nation, you become a citizen of it, something which now even requires an oath of loyalty to those who want to join it, wishing ill on it would be a betrayal of that citizenshipTOPPING said:
Yes. Wishing harm is not betrayal. Thank you. And goodnight.HYUFD said:
A traitor is someone who betrays their country, someone who wishes ill on the country of their birth is a different proposition from someone who wishes harm on an individual or group, distasteful though that may beTOPPING said:
No it's not. That would mean every Millwall fan was a traitor.HYUFD said:
It is traitorous to wish it upon the entire nationTOPPING said:
There .HYUFD said:
Unpleasant but not a traitor to their own nation noTOPPING said:
Is a CiF commentator who says "I hope Tory scum lose all their money" a traitor?Casino_Royale said:
Statistically, there will certainlyTOPPING said:
Get over yourself. By your .HYUFD said:
There is a difference between being disappointed in the result of an election, fearing the worstTOPPING said:
I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.HYUFD said:
If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?Dura_Ace said:
It er.Dadge said:
.SeanT said:
That'sCasino_Royale said:
I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.felix said:
Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.Charles said:
Barclaysting.Roger said:
By then the British banks willnks have plansSouthamObserver said:
Now, that looks interesting.Gardenwalker said:Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-overy."
Even then, in the modern age, they get off fairly lightly.
You can't have it both ways. Wishing harm on a few people: ok. Wishing harm on a lot of people: traitor.
No, sorry. Logic fail.0 -
See belowPhilip_Thompson said:
How is "wishes ill" a betrayal? Betrayals involve actions not wishes.HYUFD said:A traitor is someone who betrays their country, someone who wishes ill on the country of their birth is a different proposition from someone who wishes harm on an individual or group, distasteful though that may be
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I don't think the Tories have any real strength in depth in Stoke which they do in Copeland but we shall seeNickPalmer said:
Thanks. On Stoke, I don't think UKIP has any real chance, but the Tories do, if they can avoid the anti-Labour vote going to LibDems, UKIP or others. In Copeland, my guess is that Labour will be OK. But I'm no kind of expert on either area.HYUFD said:...d to your credit I have never heard such comments from you despite the fact you were a pretty strong Remainer
Disagree on Stoke though, Copeland is much closer between the Tories and Labour than Stoke is between UKIP and Labour and the Tories have increased their poll rating since the election unlike UKIP0 -
No it would not. It takes actions to betray that. Check the definition of the word betrayal, every version of the definition requires an action.HYUFD said:You are born into a nation, you become a citizen of it, something which now even requires an oath of loyalty to those who want to join it, wishing ill on it would be a betrayal of that citizenship
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Brilliantly put by Powell, thanks for thatisam said:Again Enoch is the man to look to for moral guidance
'Edward Norman (then Dean of Peterhouse) had attempted to mount a Christian argument for nuclear weapons. The discussion moved on to 'Western values'. Mrs Thatcher said (in effect) that Norman had shown that the Bomb was necessary for the defence of our values. Powell: 'No, we do not fight for values. I would fight for this country even if it had a communist government.' Thatcher (it was just before the Argentinian invasion of the Falklands): ‘Nonsense, Enoch. If I send British troops abroad, it will be to defend our values.' 'No, Prime Minister, values exist in a transcendental realm, beyond space and time. They can neither be fought for, nor destroyed.' Mrs Thatcher looked utterly baffled. She had just been presented with the difference between Toryism and American Republicanism.'
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Powell0 -
I assume in the "negotiation" with the government at the time the GP's had their position, which was they wanted more money for fewer hours.Philip_Thompson said:
When did GP's decide that?GIN1138 said:
I think a lot of what has gone wrong with the NHS is down to GP's - If you can't get hold of a doctor out of hours then where are you going to go? Hospital!Chris_A said:Always knew Dr Wollaston was a good 'Un
https://twitter.com/sarahwollaston/status/820055263004815360
When GP's decided they would only look after their patients from 9am-5pm Monday to Friday in 2004 it signaled they are just in it for the money, IMO.
Mind you, I've had very bad experiences at the hands of my GP practice so that might be clouding my view.
The government of the day decided that was OK and agreed to it. That was their monumental f**k up, not the GP's.
The Labour government, waste of space that they were, gave it to them.
Yes, Labour was partly to blame for the terrible contract but it takes two to tango and I hold the GP's equally responsible (in fact more so because as doctors they are supposed to have a duty of care not just to be out for money as so many GP's seem to be)0 -
It feels a bit like the political/economic environment in the 1970's. Or at least what I can recall about that era when I read up on it a decade ago.YellowSubmarine said:Pace your self everyone. Brexit is like the Winter of Discontent/Thatcher winning. Or the Miner's Strike. Or Iraq. Or perhaps even joining the EEC. We're going to be talking about it for a very long time indeed. It will frame almost everything until something as large comes along and reframes it. So pace yourselves. Chillax.
I can almost imagine Theresa having to go cap-in-hand to Trump after a failed brexit.
Then a thatcher emerges...0 -
I don't. Did the Labour government negotiate with GP's or negotiate with their union?GIN1138 said:
I assume in the "negotiation" with the government at the time the GP's had their position, which was they wanted more money for fewer hours.Philip_Thompson said:
When did GP's decide that?GIN1138 said:
I think a lot of what has gone wrong with the NHS is down to GP's - If you can't get hold of a doctor out of hours then where are you going to go? Hospital!Chris_A said:Always knew Dr Wollaston was a good 'Un
https://twitter.com/sarahwollaston/status/820055263004815360
When GP's decided they would only look after their patients from 9am-5pm Monday to Friday in 2004 it signaled they are just in it for the money, IMO.
Mind you, I've had very bad experiences at the hands of my GP practice so that might be clouding my view.
The government of the day decided that was OK and agreed to it. That was their monumental f**k up, not the GP's.
The Labour government, waste of space that they were, gave it to them.
Yes, Labour was partly to blame for the terrible contract but it takes two to tango and I hold the GP's equally responsible (in fact more so because as doctors they are supposed to have a duty of care not just to be out for money as so many GP's seem to be)
A union proposing more money for less work is not a surprise. A government saying "yes, where do we sign" is. That's entirely the Labour Party's fault not the GP's fault.0 -
My grandfather worked closely with Enoch for many years. He wasn't as bright as he - and you - think he wasisam said:Again Enoch is the man to look to for moral guidance
'Edward Norman (then Dean of Peterhouse) had attempted to mount a Christian argument for nuclear weapons. The discussion moved on to 'Western values'. Mrs Thatcher said (in effect) that Norman had shown that the Bomb was necessary for the defence of our values. Powell: 'No, we do not fight for values. I would fight for this country even if it had a communist government.' Thatcher (it was just before the Argentinian invasion of the Falklands): ‘Nonsense, Enoch. If I send British troops abroad, it will be to defend our values.' 'No, Prime Minister, values exist in a transcendental realm, beyond space and time. They can neither be fought for, nor destroyed.' Mrs Thatcher looked utterly baffled. She had just been presented with the difference between Toryism and American Republicanism.'
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Powell0 -
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Under the citizenship oath now required of those wishing to become British citizens they are required to respect the laws of the UK, if there is no respect for the law which will take the UK out of the EU then that is a betrayal of that oathPhilip_Thompson said:
No it would not. It takes actions to betray that. Check the definition of the word betrayal, every version of the definition requires an action.HYUFD said:You are born into a nation, you become a citizen of it, something which now even requires an oath of loyalty to those who want to join it, wishing ill on it would be a betrayal of that citizenship
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Respect the law means to obey the law, it doesn't mean that you can't wish it's changed or else every opposition party ever would be traitors.HYUFD said:
Under the citizenship oath now required of those wishing to become British citizens they are required to respect the laws of the UK, if there is no respect for the law which will take the UK out of the EU then that is a betrayal of that oathPhilip_Thompson said:
No it would not. It takes actions to betray that. Check the definition of the word betrayal, every version of the definition requires an action.HYUFD said:You are born into a nation, you become a citizen of it, something which now even requires an oath of loyalty to those who want to join it, wishing ill on it would be a betrayal of that citizenship
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I have no view on your Grandfathers intelligence whatsoever!Charles said:
My grandfather worked closely with Enoch for many years. He wasn't as bright as he - and you - think he wasisam said:Again Enoch is the man to look to for moral guidance
'Edward Norman (then Dean of Peterhouse) had attempted to mount a Christian argument for nuclear weapons. The discussion moved on to 'Western values'. Mrs Thatcher said (in effect) that Norman had shown that the Bomb was necessary for the defence of our values. Powell: 'No, we do not fight for values. I would fight for this country even if it had a communist government.' Thatcher (it was just before the Argentinian invasion of the Falklands): ‘Nonsense, Enoch. If I send British troops abroad, it will be to defend our values.' 'No, Prime Minister, values exist in a transcendental realm, beyond space and time. They can neither be fought for, nor destroyed.' Mrs Thatcher looked utterly baffled. She had just been presented with the difference between Toryism and American Republicanism.'
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Powell0 -
What "workload"?Chris_A said:
When I think of the hours the GP's did when I was a kid, calling on people day, night and at weekends as well as running their practices and doing clinics morning and afternoon and compare to the hours they have to do now along with the money they receive, they've never had it so good.
GP's are laughing all the way to the bank.0 -
It's a nice little turn of phrase by Powell but not, I think, correct. Values quite often to all intents and purposes die because those people that espoused them are destroyed, subjugated, or absorbed into other, more dominant cultures.0
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There is a difference between perhaps wishing to change it in future and refusing to respect it when it is in place and openly disrespecting the Brexit vote which led to itPhilip_Thompson said:
Respect the law means to obey the law, it doesn't mean that you can't wish it's changed or else every opposition party ever would be traitors.HYUFD said:
Under the citizenship oath now required of those wishing to become British citizens they are required to respect the laws of the UK, if there is no respect for the law which will take the UK out of the EU then that is a betrayal of that oathPhilip_Thompson said:
No it would not. It takes actions to betray that. Check the definition of the word betrayal, every version of the definition requires an action.HYUFD said:You are born into a nation, you become a citizen of it, something which now even requires an oath of loyalty to those who want to join it, wishing ill on it would be a betrayal of that citizenship
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No there isn't, they're the same.HYUFD said:
There is a difference between perhaps wishing to change it in future and refusing to respect it when it is in place and openly disrespecting the Brexit vote which led to itPhilip_Thompson said:
Respect the law means to obey the law, it doesn't mean that you can't wish it's changed or else every opposition party ever would be traitors.HYUFD said:
Under the citizenship oath now required of those wishing to become British citizens they are required to respect the laws of the UK, if there is no respect for the law which will take the UK out of the EU then that is a betrayal of that oathPhilip_Thompson said:
No it would not. It takes actions to betray that. Check the definition of the word betrayal, every version of the definition requires an action.HYUFD said:You are born into a nation, you become a citizen of it, something which now even requires an oath of loyalty to those who want to join it, wishing ill on it would be a betrayal of that citizenship
Breaking the law is different. Actions are different.0 -
There is a difference between accepting the Brexit vote but trying to make it as soft as possible maybe even at some point arguing for a return to the EU and actively disrespecting it, disrespecting and refusing to accept the legislation which implemented it and looking for the complete ruination of the country as a result of itPhilip_Thompson said:
No there isn't, they're the same.HYUFD said:
There is a difference between perhaps wishing to change it in future and refusing to respect it when it is in place and openly disrespecting the Brexit vote which led to itPhilip_Thompson said:
Respect the law means to obey the law, it doesn't mean that you can't wish it's changed or else every opposition party ever would be traitors.HYUFD said:
Under the citizenship oath now required of those wishing to become British citizens they are required to respect the laws of the UK, if there is no respect for the law which will take the UK out of the EU then that is a betrayal of that oathPhilip_Thompson said:
No it would not. It takes actions to betray that. Check the definition of the word betrayal, every version of the definition requires an action.HYUFD said:You are born into a nation, you become a citizen of it, something which now even requires an oath of loyalty to those who want to join it, wishing ill on it would be a betrayal of that citizenship
Breaking the law is different. Actions are different.0 -
Yes but his point is that the values exist somewhere else and can't be destroyed.SirNorfolkPassmore said:It's a nice little turn of phrase by Powell but not, I think, correct. Values quite often to all intents and purposes die because those people that espoused them are destroyed, subjugated, or absorbed into other, more dominant cultures.
Anyway, I quoted that because he said he would fight for Britain if we had a Communist govt, i.e. He would do his best for his country even if he disagreed with the choice of govt0 -
Surely William Wilberforce didn't respect the law on slavery, and openly disrespected the process by which it was put in place and maintained? Ditto suffragettes and votes for women.HYUFD said:
There is a difference between perhaps wishing to change it in future and refusing to respect it when it is in place and openly disrespecting the Brexit vote which led to itPhilip_Thompson said:
Respect the law means to obey the law, it doesn't mean that you can't wish it's changed or else every opposition party ever would be traitors.HYUFD said:
Under the citizenship oath now required of those wishing to become British citizens they are required to respect the laws of the UK, if there is no respect for the law which will take the UK out of the EU then that is a betrayal of that oathPhilip_Thompson said:
No it would not. It takes actions to betray that. Check the definition of the word betrayal, every version of the definition requires an action.HYUFD said:You are born into a nation, you become a citizen of it, something which now even requires an oath of loyalty to those who want to join it, wishing ill on it would be a betrayal of that citizenship
I'm not drawing an equivalence between WW, the suffragettes and Remainers. I'm simply picking examples that happened with hindsight to have been on the right side of history to bring clarity to the point that dissent (even in strong terms) is not betrayal. But the same is true for dissenters on the wrong side of history.0 -
I hope the LibDems are in contact with her
https://twitter.com/sarahwollaston/status/8200616925330186260
