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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Labour’s challenge in retaining Stoke Central is equal if not

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015
    edited January 2017
    perdix said:

    surbiton said:

    If the Liberals campaign in Stoke mainly on Brexit, they will win regardless of their previous history there. They have to emphasise they will push for the single market and staying in it.
    The Tories, UKIP and Corbyn's Labour will be pro-Brexit.

    The Libs may push for the Single Market and they could theoretically win there but it won't change the outcome of the negotiations. We will leave the single market. Too late Libs!

    If the LDs win even in Stoke, an overwhelmingly Leave seat, then we might very well stay in the Single Market actually and we may as well keep free movement exactly as now as such a platform has won in even the most anti EU areas. However that is also precisely why the LDs will not win
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2017

    isam said:

    BLIMEY

    Costa dropped by Blues.....

    Chinese club offered him £575k a week Tuesday... hasn't trained since
    Playing Leicester tommorow, or not it seems!
    5/1 the foxes looks big

    Gone now. 9/2
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    To come from 4.2% to win the seat would be an amazing result for the LDs!

    That was in the special circumstances of the coalition. The world has changed and the LDs are winning all over the place. In Sunderland last night they went from 4% in 2015 to 45%.
    Only because the Labour councillor resigned because of non-attendance and Labour were then stupid enough to pick their spouse as the candidate
    You keep repeating that but it is not true , like much of what you post . False news in fact , The candidate was the spouse of a different councillor for this ward not the disqualified councillor .
  • Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015
    edited January 2017

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    To come from 4.2% to win the seat would be an amazing result for the LDs!

    That was in the special circumstances of the coalition. The world has changed and the LDs are winning all over the place. In Sunderland last night they went from 4% in 2015 to 45%.
    Only because the Labour councillor resigned because of non-attendance and Labour were then stupid enough to pick their spouse as the candidate
    You keep repeating that but it is not true , like much of what you post . False news in fact , The candidate was the spouse of a different councillor for this ward not the disqualified councillor .
    Well if you say so but that was what was reported from a number of source so apologies if those sources were incorrect. It was still a protest vote against the complete failure of the previous Labour incumbent to do their duties though, whether the Labour candidate was their spouse or not
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    surbiton said:

    If the Liberals campaign in Stoke mainly on Brexit, they will win regardless of their previous history there. They have to emphasise they will push for the single market and staying in it.
    The Tories, UKIP and Corbyn's Labour will be pro-Brexit.

    I believe that is completely wrong. Whatever anoraks on here might like to think , most people are not obsessed by Brexit and will vote on the basis of other issues.
    That was not the case in Witney, Richmond Park or Sleaford and Hykeham where Labour was squeezed by the LDs, UKIP and the Tories
    Richmond yes - but Labour's performance in the other two seats was affected by other factors. In Witney they were held back by not applying anything like the same resources as the LibDems.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,089

    BLIMEY

    Costa dropped by Blues.....

    Makes the 16-1 on United seem a reasonable bet. If Chelsea City and Liverpool lose at the week-end-all of which are possible their odds should at least halve.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    surbiton said:

    If the Liberals campaign in Stoke mainly on Brexit, they will win regardless of their previous history there. They have to emphasise they will push for the single market and staying in it.
    The Tories, UKIP and Corbyn's Labour will be pro-Brexit.

    I believe that is completely wrong. Whatever anoraks on here might like to think , most people are not obsessed by Brexit and will vote on the basis of other issues.
    That was not the case in Witney, Richmond Park or Sleaford and Hykeham where Labour was squeezed by the LDs, UKIP and the Tories
    Richmond yes - but Labour's performance in the other two seats was affected by other factors. In Witney they were held back by not applying anything like the same resources as the LibDems.
    Labour came second in Witney in 2015 and in normal circumstances should have been the main challengers to the Tories, yet they saw their voteshare fall
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    edited January 2017
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    To come from 4.2% to win the seat would be an amazing result for the LDs!

    That was in the special circumstances of the coalition. The world has changed and the LDs are winning all over the place. In Sunderland last night they went from 4% in 2015 to 45%.
    Only because the Labour councillor resigned because of non-attendance and Labour were then stupid enough to pick their spouse as the candidate
    You keep repeating that but it is not true , like much of what you post . False news in fact , The candidate was the spouse of a different councillor for this ward not the disqualified councillor .
    Well if you say so. It was still a protest vote against the complete failure of the previous Labour incumbent to do their duties though, whether the Labour candidate was their spouse or not
    For your interest , there is a by election in Fylde DC on Feb 9th . The Ratepayers councillor has been disqualified for non attendance as was the Sunderland Labour councillor . He is standing in the by election and will easily get back the seat from which he was disqualified ,
    Sometimes the nominal reason for the by election does not tell the whole story .
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    isam said:

    isam said:

    BLIMEY

    Costa dropped by Blues.....

    Chinese club offered him £575k a week Tuesday... hasn't trained since
    Playing Leicester tommorow, or not it seems!
    5/1 the foxes looks big

    Gone now. 9/2
    Sounds about right to me, Ranieri will put on an effort, and our new midfielders (Ndidi and Mendy) played very well in the cup.

    Even so, Chelsea should win comfortably.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    surbiton said:

    If the Liberals campaign in Stoke mainly on Brexit, they will win regardless of their previous history there. They have to emphasise they will push for the single market and staying in it.
    The Tories, UKIP and Corbyn's Labour will be pro-Brexit.

    I believe that is completely wrong. Whatever anoraks on here might like to think , most people are not obsessed by Brexit and will vote on the basis of other issues.
    That was not the case in Witney, Richmond Park or Sleaford and Hykeham where Labour was squeezed by the LDs, UKIP and the Tories
    Richmond yes - but Labour's performance in the other two seats was affected by other factors. In Witney they were held back by not applying anything like the same resources as the LibDems.
    Labour came second in Witney in 2015 and in normal circumstances should have been the main challengers to the Tories, yet they saw their voteshare fall
    I know that - but they did not invest anything like the same resources in the campaign as the LibDems because it had far less significance for them. Had Labour done so , I suspect the contest for second place would have been much more competitive.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    To come from 4.2% to win the seat would be an amazing result for the LDs!

    That was in the special circumstances of the coalition. The world has changed and the LDs are winning all over the place. In Sunderland last night they went from 4% in 2015 to 45%.
    Only because the Labour councillor resigned because of non-attendance and Labour were then stupid enough to pick their spouse as the candidate
    You keep repeating that but it is not true , like much of what you post . False news in fact , The candidate was the spouse of a different councillor for this ward not the disqualified councillor .
    Well if you say so. It was still a protest vote against the complete failure of the previous Labour incumbent to do their duties though, whether the Labour candidate was their spouse or not
    Foe your interest , there is a by election in Fylde DC on Feb 9th . The Ratepayers councillor has been disqualified for non attendance as was the Sunderland Labour councillor . He is standing in the by election and will easily get back the seat from which he was disqualified ,
    Sometimes the nominal reason for the by election does not tell the whole story .
    We will see once the by election has been held. I grant you that the LDs are doing a bit better than at the last general election (not too difficult given the 2015 election was the worst Liberal performance since 1970) and are managing to attract the protest votes of hardcore Remainers, however if they were really on a roll they should have won Witney and come second in Sleaford and they did not. We will see what Copeland and Stoke bring but in the latter at least the LDs will certainly need to repeat the second place they got in 2010 to show a real revival
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,089

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015
    edited January 2017
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    surbiton said:

    If the Liberals campaign in Stoke mainly on Brexit, they will win regardless of their previous history there. They have to emphasise they will push for the single market and staying in it.
    The Tories, UKIP and Corbyn's Labour will be pro-Brexit.

    I believe that is completely wrong. Whatever anoraks on here might like to think , most people are not obsessed by Brexit and will vote on the basis of other issues.
    That was not the case in Witney, Richmond Park or Sleaford and Hykeham where Labour was squeezed by the LDs, UKIP and the Tories
    Richmond yes - but Labour's performance in the other two seats was affected by other factors. In Witney they were held back by not applying anything like the same resources as the LibDems.
    Labour came second in Witney in 2015 and in normal circumstances should have been the main challengers to the Tories, yet they saw their voteshare fall
    I know that - but they did not invest anything like the same resources in the campaign as the LibDems because it had far less significance for them. Had Labour done so , I suspect the contest for second place would have been much more competitive.
    Well it does not exactly inspire confidence when the main opposition party cannot be bothered to invest resources in a by election when it should be seeking to be the focal point for protest, Labour have not even come in the top two in 1 by election since the referendum which has been contested by the other main parties
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited January 2017
    The truth is you can't divide England into north and south because there are some places, like Sutton Coldfield and Nuneaton for example, which are definitely not in the north, but they're just as much not in the south either. They're just in the Midlands.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Roger said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
    Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.
  • Charles said:

    Isn't the Trent the (informal) boundary between Percy ("The Kings in the North") and Talbot ("Lord of the Marches")? That would make it a pretty clear demarcation.

    Throughout much of history the Trent has been considered the boundary between North and South.

    In Roman times it was the boundary between the civilian and military zones of Roman Britain.

    During the 100 years war all counties in England were expected to raise men and funds to pay for the war. The exceptions were the south coast counties who were supposed to protect against invasion or raids and any county North of the Trent as that was considered border country against raids or invasion from Scotland.

    During the Pilgrimage of Grace rebellion the commander sent North by Henry VIII to suppress the rebellion refused to cross the Trent and instead fortified the crossings at Newark.

    Anything North of the Trent is bandit country.

  • PaganPagan Posts: 259
    edited January 2017
    AndyJS said:

    The truth is you can't divide England into north and south because there are some places, like Sutton Coldfield and Nuneaton for example, which are definitely not in the north, but they're just as much not in the south either. They're just in the Midlands.

    this is why we divide england into cornwall, the north, the far north and the not far enough north
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024

    JackW said:

    BLIMEY

    Costa dropped by Blues.....

    Was he expected to stand in Stoke Central for the Tories ?
    No, I think Pret is....
    are there any Prets in the north?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    surbiton said:

    If the Liberals campaign in Stoke mainly on Brexit, they will win regardless of their previous history there. They have to emphasise they will push for the single market and staying in it.
    The Tories, UKIP and Corbyn's Labour will be pro-Brexit.

    I believe that is completely wrong. Whatever anoraks on here might like to think , most people are not obsessed by Brexit and will vote on the basis of other issues.
    That was not the case in Witney, Richmond Park or Sleaford and Hykeham where Labour was squeezed by the LDs, UKIP and the Tories
    Richmond yes - but Labour's performance in the other two seats was affected by other factors. In Witney they were held back by not applying anything like the same resources as the LibDems.
    Labour came second in Witney in 2015 and in normal circumstances should have been the main challengers to the Tories, yet they saw their voteshare fall
    I know that - but they did not invest anything like the same resources in the campaign as the LibDems because it had far less significance for them. Had Labour done so , I suspect the contest for second place would have been much more competitive.
    Well it does not exactly inspire confidence when the main opposition party cannot be bothered to invest resources in a by election when it should be seeking to be the focal point for protest, Labour have not even come in the top two in 1 by election since the referendum which has been contested by the other main parties
    The fact is it was far more important to the LibDems than Labour as reflectrd in the effort made.
  • nunu said:

    JackW said:

    BLIMEY

    Costa dropped by Blues.....

    Was he expected to stand in Stoke Central for the Tories ?
    No, I think Pret is....
    are there any Prets in the north?
    Aberdeen has a Pret.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015
    edited January 2017
    New Zealand PM Bill English talks up 'high quality trade deal' with post Brexit UK after meeting Theresa May at No 10
    https://order-order.com/2017/01/13/new-zealand-pm-talks-high-quality-trade-deal/
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Some hints of common sense emerging?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,972
    HYUFD said:

    New Zealand PM Bill English talks up 'high quality trade deal' with post Brexit UK after meeting Theresa May at No 10
    https://order-order.com/2017/01/13/new-zealand-pm-talks-high-quality-trade-deal/

    Bill English? He should run for First Minister.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015

    HYUFD said:

    New Zealand PM Bill English talks up 'high quality trade deal' with post Brexit UK after meeting Theresa May at No 10
    https://order-order.com/2017/01/13/new-zealand-pm-talks-high-quality-trade-deal/

    Bill English? He should run for First Minister.
    Yes he took over from John Key not that long after May succeeded Cameron, his surname is certainly encouraging
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,972

    nunu said:

    JackW said:

    BLIMEY

    Costa dropped by Blues.....

    Was he expected to stand in Stoke Central for the Tories ?
    No, I think Pret is....
    are there any Prets in the north?
    Aberdeen has a Pret.
    The north ends much further south than that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015
    edited January 2017
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    surbiton said:

    If the Liberals campaign in Stoke mainly on Brexit, they will win regardless of their previous history there. They have to emphasise they will push for the single market and staying in it.
    The Tories, UKIP and Corbyn's Labour will be pro-Brexit.

    I believe that is completely wrong. Whatever anoraks on here might like to think , most people are not obsessed by Brexit and will vote on the basis of other issues.
    That was not the case in Witney, Richmond Park or Sleaford and Hykeham where Labour was squeezed by the LDs, UKIP and the Tories
    Richmond yes - but Labour's performance in the other two seats was affected by other factors. In Witney they were held back by not applying anything like the same resources as the LibDems.
    Labour came second in Witney in 2015 and in normal circumstances should have been the main challengers to the Tories, yet they saw their voteshare fall
    I know that - but they did not invest anything like the same resources in the campaign as the LibDems because it had far less significance for them. Had Labour done so , I suspect the contest for second place would have been much more competitive.
    Well it does not exactly inspire confidence when the main opposition party cannot be bothered to invest resources in a by election when it should be seeking to be the focal point for protest, Labour have not even come in the top two in 1 by election since the referendum which has been contested by the other main parties
    The fact is it was far more important to the LibDems than Labour as reflectrd in the effort made.
    Well what about Sleaford then where Labour were also second at the last general election but came fourth in the by election? The fact is in both by elections the Remain vote went LD and the Leave vote to the Tories and UKIP, Labour got squeezed
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Roger said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
    You're on the mailing list for BarCap as was. Impressed.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Charles said:

    Isn't the Trent the (informal) boundary between Percy ("The Kings in the North") and Talbot ("Lord of the Marches")? That would make it a pretty clear demarcation.

    Throughout much of history the Trent has been considered the boundary between North and South.

    In Roman times it was the boundary between the civilian and military zones of Roman Britain.

    During the 100 years war all counties in England were expected to raise men and funds to pay for the war. The exceptions were the south coast counties who were supposed to protect against invasion or raids and any county North of the Trent as that was considered border country against raids or invasion from Scotland.

    During the Pilgrimage of Grace rebellion the commander sent North by Henry VIII to suppress the rebellion refused to cross the Trent and instead fortified the crossings at Newark.

    Anything North of the Trent is bandit country.

    I've been to Newark too.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,089
    matt said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
    You're on the mailing list for BarCap as was. Impressed.
    I just have an account at Barclays Paris. I imagine it went to all account holders
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
    Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.
    Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,018
    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    To come from 4.2% to win the seat would be an amazing result for the LDs!

    That was in the special circumstances of the coalition. The world has changed and the LDs are winning all over the place. In Sunderland last night they went from 4% in 2015 to 45%.
    Only because the Labour councillor resigned because of non-attendance and Labour were then stupid enough to pick their spouse as the candidate
    Doesn't begin to explain why they turned to the Lib Dems rather than UKIP who were in 2nd place and supposed to have Labour quaking in their northern heartlands under Nuttall.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015
    I see Lord Carlile has quit the LDs
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-38618448
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,407
    HYUFD said:

    I see Lord Carlile has quit the LDs
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-38618448

    A Lib Dem supporting the Snoopers Charter is a bit like a member of Ukip supporting membership of the EU.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,294
    nunu said:

    JackW said:

    BLIMEY

    Costa dropped by Blues.....

    Was he expected to stand in Stoke Central for the Tories ?
    No, I think Pret is....
    are there any Prets in the north?
    Everything is wrong with this question!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,089
    edited January 2017
    felix said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
    Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.
    Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.
    Determined is too strong. I'm a massive fan of the EU and will be very disappointed when we leave. I also expect Brexit to fail so expecting me to be enthusiastic is expecting too much. I wonder how many on here would be cheering Corbyn on and wishing his government well in the event of a Labour victory?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    To come from 4.2% to win the seat would be an amazing result for the LDs!

    That was in the special circumstances of the coalition. The world has changed and the LDs are winning all over the place. In Sunderland last night they went from 4% in 2015 to 45%.
    Only because the Labour councillor resigned because of non-attendance and Labour were then stupid enough to pick their spouse as the candidate
    Doesn't begin to explain why they turned to the Lib Dems rather than UKIP who were in 2nd place and supposed to have Labour quaking in their northern heartlands under Nuttall.
    For most Labour voters the LDs are probably their natural party of preference and most moved en masse to them in this council by election in protest at the behaviour of the previous Labour incumbent it seems. I doubt UKIP are really going to eat that much more into the Labour vote at the moment beyond that they already did at the last election, the LDs and Tories are more likely beneficiaries based on current polling but almost certainly not on the scale of last night which was down to unique circumstances. If and when it is a softer Brexit than it now looks then UKIP may do a bit better but for now they are treading water
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015
    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Lord Carlile has quit the LDs
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-38618448

    A Lib Dem supporting the Snoopers Charter is a bit like a member of Ukip supporting membership of the EU.
    He was a long-term MP for Montgomeryshire though so it is a boost for the Tory MP there that he no longer supports the yellows
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited January 2017
    nunu said:

    JackW said:

    BLIMEY

    Costa dropped by Blues.....

    Was he expected to stand in Stoke Central for the Tories ?
    No, I think Pret is....
    are there any Prets in the north?
    Nah. I've heard there are a few in London though;

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/every-building-in-london-to-be-a-pret-a-manger-by-2020-20170105119703
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015
    Roger said:

    felix said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
    Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.
    Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.
    Determined is too strong. I'm a massive fan of the EU and will be very disappointed when we leave. I also expect Brexit to fail so expecting me to be enthusiastic is expecting too much. I wonder how many on here would be cheering Corbyn on and wishing his government well in the event of a Labour victory?
    I voted Remain with some reservations but would certainly vote to stay out in any second referendum, if we reentered now it would be a national humiliation beyond even Suez and effectively the end of the UK as a sovereign nation state. While I also want a reasonable deal with the EU I also recognise that some immigration controls must be a part of the Brexit process to respect what was such a key plank of the winning Leave platform
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,940
    HYUFD said:

    I see Lord Carlile has quit the LDs
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-38618448

    Good
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,797

    Charles said:

    Isn't the Trent the (informal) boundary between Percy ("The Kings in the North") and Talbot ("Lord of the Marches")? That would make it a pretty clear demarcation.

    Throughout much of history the Trent has been considered the boundary between North and South.

    In Roman times it was the boundary between the civilian and military zones of Roman Britain.

    During the 100 years war all counties in England were expected to raise men and funds to pay for the war. The exceptions were the south coast counties who were supposed to protect against invasion or raids and any county North of the Trent as that was considered border country against raids or invasion from Scotland.

    During the Pilgrimage of Grace rebellion the commander sent North by Henry VIII to suppress the rebellion refused to cross the Trent and instead fortified the crossings at Newark.

    Anything North of the Trent is bandit country.

    Well, that rule certainly worked with Bonnie Prince Charlie - he reached Swarkestone Bridge over the Trent before scuttling back north! ;)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2017
    Roger said:

    felix said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
    Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.
    Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.
    Determined is too strong. I'm a massive fan of the EU and will be very disappointed when we leave. I also expect Brexit to fail so expecting me to be enthusiastic is expecting too much. I wonder how many on here would be cheering Corbyn on and wishing his government well in the event of a Labour victory?
    I was just about to type 'I doubt people would be cheering on any potential job losses and harsh economic times' then I realised that's what referendum losers are doing!
  • HYUFD said:

    I see Lord Carlile has quit the LDs
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-38618448

    Good.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,129
    Roger said:

    felix said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
    Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.
    Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.
    Determined is too strong. I'm a massive fan of the EU and will be very disappointed when we leave. I also expect Brexit to fail so expecting me to be enthusiastic is expecting too much. I wonder how many on here would be cheering Corbyn on and wishing his government well in the event of a Labour victory?
    I'd be wishing for it to be a success, certainly. Surely anyone would?
  • PaganPagan Posts: 259
    well looks like got out just in time as they are mulling a fifth freedom
    "The Commission said a new "principle of free movement of data within the EU" should guide decision making by EU countries affecting data storage or processing."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015
    SeanT said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    Both sides will have to compromise. The City is a huge asset to Europe, inside or outside the EU - it makes no sense to hammer it, only to see bankers skedaddle to NYC and Singapore

    See also this in the FT:

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa76b168-a5b9-11e6-8898-79a99e2a4de6
    Indeed and once the inevitable compromise occurs then the LD revival will start to fade a little and it will be UKIP who start to claim much of the protest vote instead
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Omnium said:

    nunu said:

    JackW said:

    BLIMEY

    Costa dropped by Blues.....

    Was he expected to stand in Stoke Central for the Tories ?
    No, I think Pret is....
    are there any Prets in the north?
    Everything is wrong with this question!
    I heard it's a wasteland and you only have kebab shops........
  • MrsBMrsB Posts: 574

    HYUFD said:

    I see Lord Carlile has quit the LDs
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-38618448

    Good.
    He hasn't been in tune with Lib Demmery for a long time, especially on security.

    But was your "good" because you wanted to see the back of him or because you think the Lib Dems have been dealt a blow?
  • MrsBMrsB Posts: 574
    RobD said:

    To come from 4.2% to win the seat would be an amazing result for the LDs!

    I know it's not really a proper comparison, but we did it in Sunderland yesterday.....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,972
    The WSJ has a longer version of the quote from the US Ambassador to the EU.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-ambassador-to-eu-warns-trump-on-brexit-1484327214

    “We shouldn’t become cheerleaders for Brexit, particularly a Brexit that is more likely to be a hard, and a disorderly, unmanaged Brexit. That would be in my view absolute folly,” he said. If Brexit led to a fragmentation of the European single market he said, “it would be very bad news for American business.”

    “The perceived idea of some is that 2017 is the year that the EU is going to fall apart,” Mr. Gardner said, referring to conversations between Mr. Trump’s transition team and top EU officials that he said he had been told of. But he said “the EU is not about to fall apart.”

    “To think that supporting the fragmentation of Europe would be supporting our interests would be sheer folly. It would be lunacy,” he said.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015
    edited January 2017

    The WSJ has a longer version of the quote from the US Ambassador to the EU.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-ambassador-to-eu-warns-trump-on-brexit-1484327214

    “We shouldn’t become cheerleaders for Brexit, particularly a Brexit that is more likely to be a hard, and a disorderly, unmanaged Brexit. That would be in my view absolute folly,” he said. If Brexit led to a fragmentation of the European single market he said, “it would be very bad news for American business.”

    “The perceived idea of some is that 2017 is the year that the EU is going to fall apart,” Mr. Gardner said, referring to conversations between Mr. Trump’s transition team and top EU officials that he said he had been told of. But he said “the EU is not about to fall apart.”

    “To think that supporting the fragmentation of Europe would be supporting our interests would be sheer folly. It would be lunacy,” he said.

    Mr Gardner is an appointment of President Obama who was an EUphile and opposed Brexit. Trump's likely appointment as next US Ambassador to the EU backed Brexit
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4098478/Strident-Brexiteer-revealed-leading-candidate-Donald-Trump-s-new-ambassador-EU.html

    The Trump team even asked the EU leadership which nation would be next to leave
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2609978/donald-trumps-officials-call-the-eu-to-ask-which-country-will-be-next-to-do-a-brexit-departing-us-ambassador-to-brussels-reveals/
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,046
    felix said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
    Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.
    Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.
    I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,046
    Pagan said:

    well looks like got out just in time as they are mulling a fifth freedom
    "The Commission said a new "principle of free movement of data within the EU" should guide decision making by EU countries affecting data storage or processing."

    There is no problem in the EU to which the answer isn't More Europe.
  • This is interesting. Labour have gone for an all female short list in Copeland. It means the Sellafield Union Official isn't on it. Quite a departure for local politics.

    http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/No-acceptable-reason-for-delaying-Copeland-MP-by-election-borough-mayor-90530ea9-b522-45ea-83e6-99e0763e91d1-ds
  • SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    Both sides will have to compromise. The City is a huge asset to Europe, inside or outside the EU - it makes no sense to hammer it, only to see bankers skedaddle to NYC and Singapore

    See also this in the FT:

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa76b168-a5b9-11e6-8898-79a99e2a4de6
    Indeed and once the inevitable compromise occurs then the LD revival will start to fade a little and it will be UKIP who start to claim much of the protest vote instead
    That's how I see it. We'll get half of what we want, the EU will get half of what it wants, both sides will claim victory, and hardliners everywhere will scream betrayal.
    That'd be the best scenario, but I really can't see it happening. There simply isn't the time or ability available to negotiate a complex middle ground. I reckon it'll have to be close to either a full, hard Brexit or Brexit in name only, at least in the two years we have. Looking further into the future, we might then begin to move closer together or further apart, respectively.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    Both sides will have to compromise. The City is a huge asset to Europe, inside or outside the EU - it makes no sense to hammer it, only to see bankers skedaddle to NYC and Singapore

    See also this in the FT:

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa76b168-a5b9-11e6-8898-79a99e2a4de6
    Indeed and once the inevitable compromise occurs then the LD revival will start to fade a little and it will be UKIP who start to claim much of the protest vote instead
    That's how I see it. We'll get half of what we want, the EU will get half of what it wants, both sides will claim victory, and hardliners everywhere will scream betrayal.
    Yes, it will be neither soft Brexit nor hard Brexit but 'fudged Brexit' exactly as you say
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,940
    edited January 2017
    MrsB said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Lord Carlile has quit the LDs
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-38618448

    Good.
    He hasn't been in tune with Lib Demmery for a long time, especially on security.

    But was your "good" because you wanted to see the back of him or because you think the Lib Dems have been dealt a blow?
    Because I want to see the back of him. It was good riddance.

    EDIT: I see Yellow Sub and I both wrote "good". I can't speak for Yellow Sub but my comment is definitely good riddance.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    Both sides will have to compromise. The City is a huge asset to Europe, inside or outside the EU - it makes no sense to hammer it, only to see bankers skedaddle to NYC and Singapore

    See also this in the FT:

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa76b168-a5b9-11e6-8898-79a99e2a4de6
    Indeed and once the inevitable compromise occurs then the LD revival will start to fade a little and it will be UKIP who start to claim much of the protest vote instead
    That's how I see it. We'll get half of what we want, the EU will get half of what it wants, both sides will claim victory, and hardliners everywhere will scream betrayal.
    That'd be the best scenario, but I really can't see it happening. There simply isn't the time or ability available to negotiate a complex middle ground. I reckon it'll have to be close to either a full, hard Brexit or Brexit in name only, at least in the two years we have. Looking further into the future, we might then begin to move closer together or further apart, respectively.
    Most likely May offers a job offer requirement rather than a points system and limited budget contributions and gets limited single market access in some key sectors and a vague promise of a trade deal later on
  • Charles said:

    Isn't the Trent the (informal) boundary between Percy ("The Kings in the North") and Talbot ("Lord of the Marches")? That would make it a pretty clear demarcation.

    The Trent is a sort of red line in the North/Midlands debate in that it's rare to find any suggestion that anything south of the Trent is in the North. But that doesn't mean that some of the stuff north of the Trent isn't in the Midlands. For all that I'm from halfway up Derbyshire and consider myself just-about-Northern, I've always regarded Derby as a Midland town (well, a Midland city since 1977). Derby-Nottingham-Leicester is a triangle of Eastmidlandsness. (And the forthcoming Derby vs Leicester tie in the FA Cup is surely an East Midlands derby.)

    There's an official EU statistical designation of the East Midlands which includes the whole of Derbyshire. That seems bonkers - as mentioned upthread, wherever one draws the Midlands/North line, the top left-hand corner of Derbyshire just has to be Northern. I can't imagine that the number of people living in Glossop or Chapel-en-le-Frith who regard themselves as Midlanders is very large.

    Re the West/East Midlands thing, I always have trouble remembering whether Burton is in Staffordshire or Derbyshire, as it sort of leans into Derbyshire even though it's in Staffs. In that regard it's the Berwick of the Midlands: in one place but feeling like it's actually in another.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited January 2017
    O/T:

    Some real idiots on this video re. the storms, especially the man pushing the wheelchair with the old woman:

    http://www.itv.com/news/
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,972
    SeanT said:

    Pagan said:

    well looks like got out just in time as they are mulling a fifth freedom
    "The Commission said a new "principle of free movement of data within the EU" should guide decision making by EU countries affecting data storage or processing."

    There is no problem in the EU to which the answer isn't More Europe.
    Funnily enough, they are generally right. The solution to many EU problems - from the currency to migration to lack of democracy - is a proper Federal superstate, with fiscal transfers, an EU army and border force, EU police, directly elected EU president, and so on.
    Just the sort of thing a straight-talking non-politician US President might undiplomatically point out when he's at a summit.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,765
    edited January 2017
    HYUFD said:

    I see Lord Carlile has quit the LDs
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-38618448

    This happened a while ago.

    His Party designation was changed on the House of Lords website earlier this week - and it takes a while to filter through to there.

    Other recent Lords changes:

    Baroness (Camilla) Cavendish has resigned from the Conservative Party - only appointed a few months ago in Cameron resignation list. Some speculation this was because she was going for BBC Chairman - though she didn't get it.

    Lord Lyell (Con) has died - but he was a hereditary so he'll be replaced by another Con in a by-election.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Charles said:

    Isn't the Trent the (informal) boundary between Percy ("The Kings in the North") and Talbot ("Lord of the Marches")? That would make it a pretty clear demarcation.

    The Trent is a sort of red line in the North/Midlands debate in that it's rare to find any suggestion that anything south of the Trent is in the North. But that doesn't mean that some of the stuff north of the Trent isn't in the Midlands. For all that I'm from halfway up Derbyshire and consider myself just-about-Northern, I've always regarded Derby as a Midland town (well, a Midland city since 1977). Derby-Nottingham-Leicester is a triangle of Eastmidlandsness. (And the forthcoming Derby vs Leicester tie in the FA Cup is surely an East Midlands derby.)

    There's an official EU statistical designation of the East Midlands which includes the whole of Derbyshire. That seems bonkers - as mentioned upthread, wherever one draws the Midlands/North line, the top left-hand corner of Derbyshire just has to be Northern. I can't imagine that the number of people living in Glossop or Chapel-en-le-Frith who regard themselves as Midlanders is very large.

    Re the West/East Midlands thing, I always have trouble remembering whether Burton is in Staffordshire or Derbyshire, as it sort of leans into Derbyshire even though it's in Staffs. In that regard it's the Berwick of the Midlands: in one place but feeling like it's actually in another.
    Burton is in Staffordshire and therefore the West Midlands. The local council is East Staffordshire and I know that a lot of people in the area mis-read it as East Midlands because I've heard them talk about it.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,089
    Trumps approval rating 37% Obamas 55%. Trumps is the lowest on record.


    http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/01/donald_trump_approval_rating_a.html
  • MrsBMrsB Posts: 574
    isam said:

    MikeK said:

    Nuttall needs to start a complete reorganisation of UKIP.

    I may be wrong but UKIP has shown no progress since his election as leader. In fact quite the reverse, which to me is a shame, because at one time it was on the verge of becoming a real player in British politics.

    Too many in UKIP think working class voters will just flock to their ranks. But that's not how it works. You need to put in the tough graft of policy-making, fighting council elections hard, manning stalls at the weekends, knocking on doors, getting in the local paper and so on. That was never Nigel; it needs to be Nuttall.

    I am sorry but that is just you guessing & it's not true. Farage worked very hard indeed, I campaigned for Ukip in Clacton alongside him and he was knocking on every door in the crappiest town in England!
    yep, and that was the mistake. Why was he campaigning there where UKIP were going to win anyway?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    That storm video again:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyFZcdWu1js
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited January 2017
    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    Both sides will have to compromise. The City is a huge asset to Europe, inside or outside the EU - it makes no sense to hammer it, only to see bankers skedaddle to NYC and Singapore

    See also this in the FT:

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa76b168-a5b9-11e6-8898-79a99e2a4de6
    Indeed and once the inevitable compromise occurs then the LD revival will start to fade a little and it will be UKIP who start to claim much of the protest vote instead
    That's how I see it. We'll get half of what we want, the EU will get half of what it wants, both sides will claim victory, and hardliners everywhere will scream betrayal.
    Yes, it will be neither soft Brexit nor hard Brexit but 'fudged Brexit' exactly as you say
    Sensible Brexit.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    Is the large (and city-council-running) Stoke Independents group fielding a candidate? If so, the contest gets very complicated indeed.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,256
    MrsB said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Lord Carlile has quit the LDs
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-38618448

    Good.
    He hasn't been in tune with Lib Demmery for a long time, especially on security.

    But was your "good" because you wanted to see the back of him or because you think the Lib Dems have been dealt a blow?
    I always find it hard to understand why most politicians who leave one party find it necessary to join another immediately - like those who cross the floor from Conservative to Labour or vice versa.

    It's almost as though they need the support of a party - any party - rather than thinking for themselves for a while.

    I can easily understand people who find they are diverging from their party's views; it's the instant identification with almost polar opposite views I find hard to credit.

    I see this gentleman is simply leaving the LibDems; no big drama about joining any other party straight away. Good for him.

    Good evening, everyone.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015
    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Lord Carlile has quit the LDs
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-38618448

    This happened a while ago.

    His Party designation was changed on the House of Lords website earlier this week - and it takes a while to filter through to there.

    Other recent Lords changes:

    Baroness (Camilla) Cavendish has resigned from the Conservative Party - only appointed a few months ago in Cameron resignation list. Some speculation this was because she was going for BBC Chairman - though she didn't get it.

    Lord Lyell (Con) has died - but he was a hereditary so he'll be replaced by another Con in a by-election.
    Thanks
  • YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740
    edited January 2017
    @MrsB @Barnesian Good question. I don't know what has happened to Alex. He was a good liberal and a good MP. But his authoritarian shilling while he had the Terrorism gig was inexplicable and unforgivable. The only real reason not to have withdrawn the whip from him was that would have been more illiberal than he was.

    Though as you perhaps allude to having left the Lib Dems myself over four years ago I'm not the best judge of the party's needs and fortunes. Though I still think about the old girl is a confused manner In the way you might about an ex spouse you loved, then bitterly divorced whose Crack addiction eventually did kill them after all. As you predicted.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015
    Roger said:

    Trumps approval rating 37% Obamas 55%. Trumps is the lowest on record.


    http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/01/donald_trump_approval_rating_a.html

    It will be the GOP Congress though that will be first up for any protest vote in the 2018 midterms, if the Democrats take the House that will ironically boost Trump's chances of re-election, especially against a left-liberal like Warren. A Trump presidency will be far worse for GOP candidates than a Hillary presidency would have been but a gift to Pelosi
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015
    chestnut said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    Both sides will have to compromise. The City is a huge asset to Europe, inside or outside the EU - it makes no sense to hammer it, only to see bankers skedaddle to NYC and Singapore

    See also this in the FT:

    https://www.ft.com/content/aa76b168-a5b9-11e6-8898-79a99e2a4de6
    Indeed and once the inevitable compromise occurs then the LD revival will start to fade a little and it will be UKIP who start to claim much of the protest vote instead
    That's how I see it. We'll get half of what we want, the EU will get half of what it wants, both sides will claim victory, and hardliners everywhere will scream betrayal.
    Yes, it will be neither soft Brexit nor hard Brexit but 'fudged Brexit' exactly as you say
    Sensible Brexit.
    For 60-70% of the country certainly
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    SeanT said:

    felix said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
    Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.
    Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.
    I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.
    That's true of most Remoaners, but I think some of the more deranged - like Meeks - actively want to see the country suffer, and slide into penury and famine, as some kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.
    It wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen. Every time I hear another story of everyday xenophobia it does make me wish my own country ill. Even if before the referendum my fellow countryidiots had an excuse for being so shitty, they certainly have no excuse now that they've voted to pull up the drawbridge.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2017
    MrsB said:

    isam said:

    MikeK said:

    Nuttall needs to start a complete reorganisation of UKIP.

    I may be wrong but UKIP has shown no progress since his election as leader. In fact quite the reverse, which to me is a shame, because at one time it was on the verge of becoming a real player in British politics.

    Too many in UKIP think working class voters will just flock to their ranks. But that's not how it works. You need to put in the tough graft of policy-making, fighting council elections hard, manning stalls at the weekends, knocking on doors, getting in the local paper and so on. That was never Nigel; it needs to be Nuttall.

    I am sorry but that is just you guessing & it's not true. Farage worked very hard indeed, I campaigned for Ukip in Clacton alongside him and he was knocking on every door in the crappiest town in England!
    yep, and that was the mistake. Why was he campaigning there where UKIP were going to win anyway?
    Yes quite true as I said earlier. The day Ukip won Clacton they lost Heywood and Middleton by 600 votes. All the top faces were in Clacton, so poor use of resources.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    If the Conservatives are going to try in Stoke, the £100 at 15 on Betfair must be fair?
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    I see that there's been a political defection with Lord Carlile leaving the LibDems. Good riddance. You'd struggle to find anyone more illiberal.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Checkout Emily Maitlis clobber on Newsnight!!
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    edited January 2017
    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see Lord Carlile has quit the LDs
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-38618448

    This happened a while ago.

    His Party designation was changed on the House of Lords website earlier this week - and it takes a while to filter through to there.

    Other recent Lords changes:

    Baroness (Camilla) Cavendish has resigned from the Conservative Party - only appointed a few months ago in Cameron resignation list. Some speculation this was because she was going for BBC Chairman - though she didn't get it.

    Lord Lyell (Con) has died - but he was a hereditary so he'll be replaced by another Con in a by-election.
    Thanks
    Not necessarily. Any peer can stand but the electors are those who hold the Tory whip.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,538
    SeanT said:

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    felix said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
    Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.
    Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.
    I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.
    That's true of most Remoaners, but I think some of the more deranged - like Meeks - actively want to see the country suffer, and slide into penury and famine, as some kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.
    It wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen. Every time I hear another story of everyday xenophobia it does make me wish my own country ill. Even if before the referendum my fellow countryidiots had an excuse for being so shitty, they certainly have no excuse now that they've voted to pull up the drawbridge.
    To me, this makes you, simply, a traitor.

    I know this word is tossed about (not least by me) but Remainers like you who want Britain and the British to suffer impoverishment, decay and decline as punishment for some absurd, perceived "xenophobia" are traitors.

    You "wish your own country ill". In your own words!

    Here's some advice. Take a good long look at yourself in the mirror. Bring a puke-bucket.
    Look me in the eye and tell me that, when Labour win a GE, you don't think: well that'll show them, they won't be laughing when they have to pay more for their beer and fags.

    Go on, tell me.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,891
    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    felix said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
    Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.
    Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.
    I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.
    That's true of most Remoaners, but I think some of the more deranged - like Meeks - actively want to see the country suffer, and slide into penury and famine, as some kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.
    It wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen. Every time I hear another story of everyday xenophobia it does make me wish my own country ill. Even if before the referendum my fellow countryidiots had an excuse for being so shitty, they certainly have no excuse now that they've voted to pull up the drawbridge.
    Your continued ranting makes the memory of that joyous night in June last year come back with renewed vigour, remembering the brave step my fellow Brits took.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Sun political editor's Father was at lunch when the Queen did or didn't criticise the EU

    https://order-order.com/2017/01/13/clegg-changes-story-queen-backed-brexit-yet/#comment-3097067679
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,538
    edited January 2017
    SeanT said:

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    felix said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
    Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.
    Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.
    I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.
    That's true of most Remoaners, but I think some of the more deranged - like Meeks - actively want to see the country suffer, and slide into penury and famine, as some kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.
    drawbridge.
    To myour own words!

    Here's some advice. Take a good long look at yourself in the mirror. Bring a puke-bucket.
    Look me in the eye and tell me that, when Labour win a GE, you don't think: well that'll show them, they won't be laughing when they have to pay more for their beer and fags.

    Go on, tell me.
    No, I don't think that. I really don't. I'm a patriot AND a democrat. If my fellow Brits vote Labour, then I accept it, and wish ill on no one. I may decry their mistake, but I know they have their motives (different from mine) and that electoral fortunes will change, over time.

    These fucking Remoaner traitors are DISGUSTING. Cockroaches.
    Don't believe you. Plus I know every week there seems to be a different fad, but they do say you should have a day or two a week off the booze.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,538
    @SeanT

    Yet those two Amarones mean you are too drunk to get the quote system right.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,046
    SeanT said:

    Mods, can we have Dadge banned?

    That crosses the line.

    If MikeK can be suspended for race-baiting, I see no reason why Dadge shouldn't be carded for actually wishing disaster on all Britons, because he doesn't like the way we voted in a referendum.

    Why should we be surprised by treason?

    These sorts of people are like Philby, Burgess and Maclean: well-educated, upper-middle class types willingly selling out their own country to a foreign power in pursuit of their deluded and naive ideals.

    And there were plenty of others like them. Not all spies, sure, or as well-placed, but sympathetic.

    In the 1930s it was for Commmuism and the USSR. If they were alive today, it would be for the EU.

    As Orwell said in the 1940s: England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during God save the King than of stealing from a poor box.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    SeanT said:

    Mods, can we have Dadge banned?

    That crosses the line.

    If MikeK can be suspended for race-baiting, I see no reason why Dadge shouldn't be carded for actually wishing disaster on all Britons, because he doesn't like the way we voted in a referendum.

    I deny that I was race-baiting, so called. There is no doubt that I was suspended though.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,120
    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    felix said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
    Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.
    Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.
    I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.
    That's true of most Remoaners, but I think some of the more deranged - like Meeks - actively want to see the country suffer, and slide into penury and famine, as some kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.
    It wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen. Every time I hear another story of everyday xenophobia it does make me wish my own country ill. Even if before the referendum my fellow countryidiots had an excuse for being so shitty, they certainly have no excuse now that they've voted to pull up the drawbridge.
    It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,892
    SeanT said:

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    felix said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
    Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.
    Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.
    I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.
    That's true of most Remoaners, but I think some of the more deranged - like Meeks - actively want to see the country suffer, and slide into penury and famine, as some kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.
    drawbridge.
    To myour own words!

    Here's some advice. Take a good long look at yourself in the mirror. Bring a puke-bucket.
    Look me in the eye and tell me that, when Labour win a GE, you don't think: well that'll show them, they won't be laughing when they have to pay more for their beer and fags.

    Go on, tell me.
    No, I don't think that. I really don't. I'm a patriot AND a democrat. If my fellow Brits vote Labour, then I accept it, and wish ill on no one. I may decry their mistake, but I know they have their motives (different from mine) and that electoral fortunes will change, over time.

    These fucking Remoaner traitors are DISGUSTING. Cockroaches.
    'Cockroach' was a favourite epithet of the Rwandan Interahamwe before the genocide. Rhetoric tends to reflect values; you might want to consider that.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,538
    Nigelb said:

    SeanT said:

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    felix said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
    Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.
    Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.
    I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.
    That's true of most Remoaners, but I think some of the more deranged - like Meeks - actively want to see the country suffer, and slide into penury and famine, as some kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.
    drawbridge.
    To myour own words!

    Here's some advice. Take a good long look at yourself in the mirror. Bring a puke-bucket.
    Look me in the eye and tell me that, when Labour win a GE, you don't think: well that'll show them, they won't be laughing when they have to pay more for their beer and fags.

    Go on, tell me.
    No, I don't think that. I really don't. I'm a patriot AND a democrat. If my fellow Brits vote Labour, then I accept it, and wish ill on no one. I may decry their mistake, but I know they have their motives (different from mine) and that electoral fortunes will change, over time.

    These fucking Remoaner traitors are DISGUSTING. Cockroaches.
    'Cockroach' was a favourite epithet of the Rwandan Interahamwe before the genocide. Rhetoric tends to reflect values; you might want to consider that.
    He's not himself at the moment. He will be suitably contrite tomorrow when he wakes up.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,538
    SeanT said:

    TOPPING said:

    @SeanT

    Yet those two Amarones mean you are too drunk to get the quote system right.

    lol. Fucking comeback, man. That's some Oscar Wilde shit, right there. "You got the quote system wrong".
    And yet you cared enough to go back to try to fix it.
  • SeanT said:

    TOPPING:

    "Don't believe you. Plus I know every week there seems to be a different fad but they do say you should have a day or two a week off the booze."


    ****

    Clearly you do think this shit, so you have merely exposed yourself: as another Remoaner traitor.

    This referendum has been like lifting up the stone, to see the scuttling nastiness that exists just beneath the liberal, europhile facade

    As for booze, I'm two glasses of Amarone into the evening. Been working hard all day. I'm stone cold sober by my standards. I'm just genuinely amazed, startled and repelled by the abhorrent bilge Remainers like you are now dribbling out of your electorally sodomized arseholes, which so closely resemble your mouths.

    Amarone, profoundly bitter, profoundly delicious.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,015
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    felix said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
    Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.
    Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.
    I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.
    That's true of most Remoaners, but I think some of the more deranged - like Meeks - actively want to see the country suffer, and slide into penury and famine, as some kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.
    It wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen. Every time I hear another story of everyday xenophobia it does make me wish my own country ill. Even if before the referendum my fellow countryidiots had an excuse for being so shitty, they certainly have no excuse now that they've voted to pull up the drawbridge.
    It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.
    If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,538

    SeanT said:

    TOPPING:

    "Don't believe you. Plus I know every week there seems to be a different fad but they do say you should have a day or two a week off the booze."


    ****

    Clearly you do think this shit, so you have merely exposed yourself: as another Remoaner traitor.

    This referendum has been like lifting up the stone, to see the scuttling nastiness that exists just beneath the liberal, europhile facade

    As for booze, I'm two glasses of Amarone into the evening. Been working hard all day. I'm stone cold sober by my standards. I'm just genuinely amazed, startled and repelled by the abhorrent bilge Remainers like you are now dribbling out of your electorally sodomized arseholes, which so closely resemble your mouths.

    Amarone, profoundly bitter, profoundly delicious.
    Yet not to be drunk from pint glasses.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,538
    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    felix said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
    Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.
    Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.
    I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.
    That's true of most Remoaners, but I think some of the more deranged - like Meeks - actively want to see the country suffer, and slide into penury and famine, as some kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.
    It wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen. Every time I hear another story of everyday xenophobia it does make me wish my own country ill. Even if before the referendum my fellow countryidiots had an excuse for being so shitty, they certainly have no excuse now that they've voted to pull up the drawbridge.
    It would be the best thing that would happen. I am going to Kevin Keegan style LOVE IT if Brexit is a complete disaster.
    If you dislike Brexit UK so much why don't you move to Brussels then?
    I hate Labour UK but when they are in government I don't look to move to Islington.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,538
    SeanT said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    SeanT said:

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    felix said:

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting, from the pro-Remain Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/eu-negotiator-wants-special-deal-over-access-to-city-post-brexit

    "The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator has shown the first signs of backing away from his hardline, no compromise approach after admitting he wants a deal with Britain that will guarantee the other 27 member states will continue to have easy access to the City."

    Now, that looks interesting.

    By then the British banks will be well set up in Paris Frankfurt and Dublin. I got a circular from Barclays France explaining some expansion plan they have in the pipeline. I imagine all the banks have plans
    Barclays France (The bits they didn't sell a few weeks ago) has always been a French company - originally part of DCO I believe. Not related to passporting.
    Roger is determined to see the UK destroyed by Brexit - he and his ilk are among the reasons why Remain lost.
    I think it's more they hate the idea they might turn out to be wrong.
    That's true of most Remoaners, but I think some of the more deranged - like Meeks - actively want to see the country suffer, and slide into penury and famine, as some kind of "punishment" for our grievous error.
    drawbridge.
    To myour own words!

    Here's some advice. Take a good long look at yourself in the mirror. Bring a puke-bucket.
    Look me in the eye and tell me that, when Labour win a GE, you don't think: well that'll show them, they won't be laughing when they have to pay more for their beer and fags.

    Go on, tell me.
    No, . Cockroaches.
    'Cockroach' was a favourite epithet of the Rwandan Interahamwe before the genocide. Rhetoric tends to reflect values; you might want to consider that.
    He's not himself at the moment. He will be suitably contrite tomorrow when he wakes up.
    No, I won't. Not for this. You europhiles are emetic and repulsive: you wish ill on your fellow Britons for exercising a democratic choice. You are, indeed, cockroaches, though I fear I am possibly doing a disservice to Things That Live Under The Fridge, in making this comparison.
    Strained.

    You're better when you're not trying so hard.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Remainer bitterness is like teenage acne.....the pus just oozes out, day after day.
This discussion has been closed.