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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The LEAVE campaign’s message on the NHS is still resonating strongly with those who voted for BREXIT
The latest YouGov out today, asks a question that has nor been put for some time – whether people think that leaving the EU will be good for the NHS.
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That £350m per week for the NHS has the potential to be the new 'Read my lips, no new taxes'0
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Which is why the Tories will promise an extra £70m per week per year in the manifesto. That's an additional £350m per week by the end of the period and it allows for inflation to cut into the real terms amount by well over half. That will satisfy almost everyone, including voters in Lab/Con marginals who voted Leave.TheScreamingEagles said:That £350m per week for the NHS has the potential to be the new 'Read my lips, no new taxes'
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So in the future Jamaican nurses with perfect English will not be disadvantaged versus Spanish nurses with so-so English when seeking work in the UK.
That sounds like something that would have a Good Effect on the NHS.0 -
I hink LEAVE voters have in mind not so much the £350m but the expected big drop in immigaion, coupled with unchanged levels of staffing. Good luck with that too.
FPT on the idle watch chatter (any advice?):
I have a 40-year-old manual Omega which still keeps reasonably good time, and have occasionally thoght about selling it - no idea where to go for that, though,or whether it's worth anything. There's no brand name - Seamaster or whatever - and I think my mum simply bought it in Switzerland as a boirthday present.
The people who irritate me are the ones who make a point of not wearing a watch, in a lofty I'm-modern way, and then frequently ask you the time.
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Nobody knows whether the promise can be achieved, and I imagine it's going to be pretty tricky to determine for sure whether it has been achieved or not. What would be the criteria? How will we know?0
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The shameless advert that showed empty hospitals after Brexit (and no foreign medical staff...)NickPalmer said:I hink LEAVE voters have in mind not so much the £350m but the expected big drop in immigaion, coupled with unchanged levels of staffing. Good luck with that too.
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This seems fairly easy to measure,,,FeersumEnjineeya said:Nobody knows whether the promise can be achieved, and I imagine it's going to be pretty tricky to determine for sure whether it has been achieved or not. What would be the criteria? How will we know?
https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/status/747000584226607104/photo/10 -
Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?0
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Is £350m per week extra being spent on the NHS? If yes, then it has been achieved, if no then it hasn't. £70m additional per week per year for 5 years is what I'm sure the Tories will campaign on. It would be stupid not to.FeersumEnjineeya said:Nobody knows whether the promise can be achieved, and I imagine it's going to be pretty tricky to determine for sure whether it has been achieved or not. What would be the criteria? How will we know?
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Or do people think a reduction in immigration will alleviate some of the increasing demand and stress in the NHS?
The reasons for the responses may not be binary.0 -
Of course it will be good for the NHS. The Remainers were only able to dispute the rebated part of the £350mn that still leaves many hundreds of millions left to fund the NHS.
Without even considering the impact of supply and demand by potentially restricting low-skilled migration while continuing to allow the free movement of doctors and nurses.0 -
They still believe the crap spouted by Project Fear.David_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
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The promise is £350 million per week more than would otherwise be spent (if we remained in the EU). The tricky bit is determining the amount that would otherwise be spent. If you don't know that, you can't determine if the promise has been kept.Scott_P said:
This seems fairly easy to measure,,,FeersumEnjineeya said:Nobody knows whether the promise can be achieved, and I imagine it's going to be pretty tricky to determine for sure whether it has been achieved or not. What would be the criteria? How will we know?
https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/status/747000584226607104/photo/10 -
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
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I'd have thought this would be a perfect amendment to put onto the Article 50 bill, should the Supreme Court require one to be tabled.
Of course it would be about preventing the Government from backsliding, showing commitment to the NHS, and demonstrating that the Leave campaign pledges will be fulfilled.
The bar chart is one of the starkest I've seen about the national divide on this.0 -
1. Keep it, it's a nice reminder of your family and won't be worth as much as to make it worth getting rid of.NickPalmer said:I hink LEAVE voters have in mind not so much the £350m but the expected big drop in immigaion, coupled with unchanged levels of staffing. Good luck with that too.
FPT on the idle watch chatter (any advice?):
I have a 40-year-old manual Omega which still keeps reasonably good time, and have occasionally thoght about selling it - no idea where to go for that, though,or whether it's worth anything. There's no brand name - Seamaster or whatever - and I think my mum simply bought it in Switzerland as a boirthday present.
The people who irritate me are the ones who make a point of not wearing a watch, in a lofty I'm-modern way, and then frequently ask you the time.
2. "The people who irritate me are the ones who make a point of not wearing a watch, in a lofty I'm-modern way, and then frequently ask you the time" - do you meet many such people in your travels, Nick?0 -
If the government spends an additional £350m per week on the NHS how many people do you think are going to quibble about where the money is coming from? The money is what's important, if that is fulfilled then no one is going to care how.FeersumEnjineeya said:
The promise is £350 million per week more than would otherwise be spent (if we remained in the EU). The tricky bit is determining the amount that would otherwise be spent. If you don't know that, you can't determine if the promise has been kept.Scott_P said:
This seems fairly easy to measure,,,FeersumEnjineeya said:Nobody knows whether the promise can be achieved, and I imagine it's going to be pretty tricky to determine for sure whether it has been achieved or not. What would be the criteria? How will we know?
https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/status/747000584226607104/photo/10 -
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?0 -
I'd suggest four main reasons, all dependent on the final deal:David_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
1) General economic impact means less treasury resources to go round
2) Harder to recruit staff from Europe
3) Increased cost of medical equipment due to tariffs / having to find alternative suppliers
4) Increased regulatory costs if having to sustain our own systems (see the discussion on the European Medicines Agency the other day.)
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The NHS won't be able to hire either of them, because even if the Department of Health think they need the people, they won't be able to get the Home Office to issue a bunch of new visas. The Home Office has immigration targets to meet, and NHS staffing isn't their problem.SandyRentool said:So in the future Jamaican nurses with perfect English will not be disadvantaged versus Spanish nurses with so-so English when seeking work in the UK.
That sounds like something that would have a Good Effect on the NHS.0 -
I don't wear a watch in a lofty "I'm so clumsy I keep breaking them" way. But if I want to know the time, I look at my phone.NickPalmer said:I hink LEAVE voters have in mind not so much the £350m but the expected big drop in immigaion, coupled with unchanged levels of staffing. Good luck with that too.
FPT on the idle watch chatter (any advice?):
I have a 40-year-old manual Omega which still keeps reasonably good time, and have occasionally thoght about selling it - no idea where to go for that, though,or whether it's worth anything. There's no brand name - Seamaster or whatever - and I think my mum simply bought it in Switzerland as a boirthday present.
The people who irritate me are the ones who make a point of not wearing a watch, in a lofty I'm-modern way, and then frequently ask you the time.
Unless you have a brand name and evidence of its provenance I'd be surprised if your watch was worth more than its sentimental value, so I'd keep it if I were you. You could always wait until they have a free listing day on Ebay and then put it on at a stupidly high reserve to see if it attracts any interest.0 -
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?0 -
https://twitter.com/WikiGuido/status/817358268712493056
Nigel Farage is the Brian Clough of politics.
Discuss.0 -
You can't jump from "unprovable within system F" to "not provable at all". The statements with which G was concerned are in fact true, but not provably true in the specific systems in which they are made. I can't explain better than wiki does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel's_incompleteness_theoremsDromedary said:
How is it different? "Correct propositions" are a kind of truth, and all logic is based on axioms. My formulation just points up that what he proved was a case of a wider truth.Ishmael_Z said:
No. What Gödel showed was that for any given axiomatised logical or mathematical system there would be correct propositions which could not be proved or disproved within that system. A very different thing.Dromedary said:(snip)
It's true that you can't argue logically against the existence of absolute truth, but logic is conscious-mental and necessarily linguistic, and there are some truths that cannot be proved logically. Even logicians have recognised this, since Gödel proved it
, although many had understood it, and knew it was true, for much longer. (Ask any woman!)
(In fact I couldn't now explain at all without a crib, but I could have done so 30 years ago when studying "Gödel , Escher, Bach")0 -
Farage is less quotable.David_Evershed said:Nigel Farage is the Brian Clough of politics.
Discuss.0 -
You're misunderstanding my argument. The problem is in determining the baseline from which to measure. Spending on the NHS has been increasing by about £2.5 billion each year for the last few years, and this rate of increase was already set to continue for the next few years. This equates to an increase of about £50 million per week each year before any additional income arising from leaving the EU is taken into account. Surely the public then have a right to expect this rate of increase to rise to 50 + 350 / 5 = £120 million per week for the next 5 years if the NHS promise is to be fulfilled?MaxPB said:
If the government spends an additional £350m per week on the NHS how many people do you think are going to quibble about where the money is coming from? The money is what's important, if that is fulfilled then no one is going to care how.FeersumEnjineeya said:
The promise is £350 million per week more than would otherwise be spent (if we remained in the EU). The tricky bit is determining the amount that would otherwise be spent. If you don't know that, you can't determine if the promise has been kept.Scott_P said:
This seems fairly easy to measure,,,FeersumEnjineeya said:Nobody knows whether the promise can be achieved, and I imagine it's going to be pretty tricky to determine for sure whether it has been achieved or not. What would be the criteria? How will we know?
https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/status/747000584226607104/photo/10 -
Recent anecdotes from NHS Hospital in East London where my Dad had his knee replaced
Nurse1.. voted Leave (although was Australian I think, maybe she said she "would" vote Leave), said all her workmates had as well. Too many people need treating, we need to cut immigration
Nurse2... Slovakian/Portuguese... said A&E should no longer be free of charge. People get pissed/high do themselves damage and they have to pick up pieces
Doctor... Asian British... said NHS has to be privatised to survive, but it is such a political sacred cow that no party dare lose votes by suggesting it0 -
Today’s Yougov poll giving the Tories a GB lead of 13% would imply that Copeland is neck and neck – Labour would hold by 0.1%!
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#2 and #3 we could unilaterally fix by the government saying they will cut tariffs on medical equipment (globally not just Europe) and make it easier to recruit staff (globally not just Europe).tpfkar said:
I'd suggest four main reasons, all dependent on the final deal:David_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
1) General economic impact means less treasury resources to go round
2) Harder to recruit staff from Europe
3) Increased cost of medical equipment due to tariffs / having to find alternative suppliers
4) Increased regulatory costs if having to sustain our own systems (see the discussion on the European Medicines Agency the other day.)
I fail to see how the EU makes either of them easier if we are just fishing in a European rather than a global pool for the best talent and equipment.0 -
Robert will know better than me, but don't the WTO rules prevent exactly what you're proposing re cutting tariffs.Philip_Thompson said:
#2 and #3 we could unilaterally fix by the government saying they will cut tariffs on medical equipment (globally not just Europe) and make it easier to recruit staff (globally not just Europe).tpfkar said:
I'd suggest four main reasons, all dependent on the final deal:David_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
1) General economic impact means less treasury resources to go round
2) Harder to recruit staff from Europe
3) Increased cost of medical equipment due to tariffs / having to find alternative suppliers
4) Increased regulatory costs if having to sustain our own systems (see the discussion on the European Medicines Agency the other day.)
I fail to see how the EU makes either of them easier if we are just fishing in a European rather than a global pool for the best talent and equipment.0 -
If the Filipina nurse is more talented or qualified than the EU one then absolutely we would taken a huge step forwards. If the EU one is more talented or qualified then why hasn't she got the job?TOPPING said:
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
I don't understand why we would only want Europe's nurses instead of the world's best nurses. Can you explain that to me?0 -
Even the mighty Enoch, when it was Tory policy to pay immigrants to go home, wanted a visa system where 5-10k a year could come and workPhilip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?0 -
Yes, Britain is full of intelligent people, and lots of them work for the government, but the British government is institutionally stupid.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
The specific mechanism behind this stupidity is that the voters don't like immigration, and the minister responsible for keeping making their low-immigration wishes come true isn't responsible for making sure there's someone to help them out when they get sick.
You see the same thing happening when it comes to letting in overseas students: The minister in charge of universities wants to let them in to help British students, the Chancellor of the Exchequer wants to let them in to help the economy, and the Foreign Office pays grants to the British Council to help encourage people to come to boost British soft power, but the Home Office wants them to go away, and they're the ones who get to decide.0 -
If we cut tariffs for Europe-only not globally then the WTO rules prevent it yes. Under WTO Most Favoured Nation rules we have to apply the same tariffs to everyone (except those we have a special trade deal with).TheScreamingEagles said:
Robert will know better than me, but don't the WTO rules prevent exactly what you're proposing re cutting tariffs.Philip_Thompson said:
#2 and #3 we could unilaterally fix by the government saying they will cut tariffs on medical equipment (globally not just Europe) and make it easier to recruit staff (globally not just Europe).tpfkar said:
I'd suggest four main reasons, all dependent on the final deal:David_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
1) General economic impact means less treasury resources to go round
2) Harder to recruit staff from Europe
3) Increased cost of medical equipment due to tariffs / having to find alternative suppliers
4) Increased regulatory costs if having to sustain our own systems (see the discussion on the European Medicines Agency the other day.)
I fail to see how the EU makes either of them easier if we are just fishing in a European rather than a global pool for the best talent and equipment.
To make the transition smoother we are maintaining the same tariff rates in the short term as we had in the EU but in the longer term I don't see why we couldn't put medical equipment as a zero-rated item globally.0 -
That Economist article (I know) said not if they're global, only if they're preferential to one country or another.TheScreamingEagles said:
Robert will know better than me, but don't the WTO rules prevent exactly what you're proposing re cutting tariffs.Philip_Thompson said:
#2 and #3 we could unilaterally fix by the government saying they will cut tariffs on medical equipment (globally not just Europe) and make it easier to recruit staff (globally not just Europe).tpfkar said:
I'd suggest four main reasons, all dependent on the final deal:David_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
1) General economic impact means less treasury resources to go round
2) Harder to recruit staff from Europe
3) Increased cost of medical equipment due to tariffs / having to find alternative suppliers
4) Increased regulatory costs if having to sustain our own systems (see the discussion on the European Medicines Agency the other day.)
I fail to see how the EU makes either of them easier if we are just fishing in a European rather than a global pool for the best talent and equipment.0 -
Hmm, I'm not sure that the significance of this opinion poll finding, as regards the NHS specifically, is all that great.
Imagine an opinion poll which asked the question "Will leaving the EU have a good or bad effect on X?", where X was anything from 'the economy' to 'unemployment' or 'inequality' or 'the car industry'. You might well get similar answers as you do when X is 'the NHS': those who voted Leave think Brexit is a good thing for Britain, and those who voted Remain don't.0 -
Thanks (and to LuckyGuy too)Philip_Thompson said:
If we cut tariffs for Europe-only not globally then the WTO rules prevent it yes. Under WTO Most Favoured Nation rules we have to apply the same tariffs to everyone (except those we have a special trade deal with).TheScreamingEagles said:
Robert will know better than me, but don't the WTO rules prevent exactly what you're proposing re cutting tariffs.Philip_Thompson said:
#2 and #3 we could unilaterally fix by the government saying they will cut tariffs on medical equipment (globally not just Europe) and make it easier to recruit staff (globally not just Europe).tpfkar said:
I'd suggest four main reasons, all dependent on the final deal:David_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
1) General economic impact means less treasury resources to go round
2) Harder to recruit staff from Europe
3) Increased cost of medical equipment due to tariffs / having to find alternative suppliers
4) Increased regulatory costs if having to sustain our own systems (see the discussion on the European Medicines Agency the other day.)
I fail to see how the EU makes either of them easier if we are just fishing in a European rather than a global pool for the best talent and equipment.
To make the transition smoother we are maintaining the same tariff rates in the short term as we had in the EU but in the longer term I don't see why we couldn't put medical equipment as a zero-rated item globally.0 -
Europe's nurses are part of a much larger mutually beneficial package for the country.Philip_Thompson said:
If the Filipina nurse is more talented or qualified than the EU one then absolutely we would taken a huge step forwards. If the EU one is more talented or qualified then why hasn't she got the job?TOPPING said:
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
I don't understand why we would only want Europe's nurses instead of the world's best nurses. Can you explain that to me?0 -
You don't think we have more control over the immigration status of someone who has been issued a visa than we do over someone with freedom of movement?TOPPING said:
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
It's a view.0 -
Why?TOPPING said:
Europe's nurses are part of a much larger mutually beneficial package for the country.Philip_Thompson said:
If the Filipina nurse is more talented or qualified than the EU one then absolutely we would taken a huge step forwards. If the EU one is more talented or qualified then why hasn't she got the job?TOPPING said:
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
I don't understand why we would only want Europe's nurses instead of the world's best nurses. Can you explain that to me?
And why won't we be able to attract them post-Brexit?0 -
For now, I'd agree. The more useful question is how this will change over time, particularly if - as seems pretty likely - at some point the NHS is perceived to be struggling.Richard_Nabavi said:Hmm, I'm not sure that the significance of this opinion poll finding is all that great.
Imagine an opinion poll which asked the question "Will leaving the EU have a good or bad effect on X?", where X was anything from 'the economy' to 'unemployment' or 'inequality' or 'the car industry'. You might well get similar answers as you do when X is 'the NHS': those who voted Leave think Brexit is a good thing for Britain, and those who voted Remain don't.
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Devaluation of the pound will make British wages less attractive.Philip_Thompson said:
Why?TOPPING said:
Europe's nurses are part of a much larger mutually beneficial package for the country.Philip_Thompson said:
If the Filipina nurse is more talented or qualified than the EU one then absolutely we would taken a huge step forwards. If the EU one is more talented or qualified then why hasn't she got the job?TOPPING said:
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
I don't understand why we would only want Europe's nurses instead of the world's best nurses. Can you explain that to me?
And why won't we be able to attract them post-Brexit?0 -
The time is so ripe for the rise of a big-time "charismatic F....r", perhaps even, ironically, on the scale of a large portion of non-Russian Europe, with acolytes or avatars in several countries. And who knows, maybe even in the regions, warming the Evolists' hearts. The US and Russia have already got their charismatic F....rs. Give it a few years.daodao said:The AfD won't do as well as they might hope without a charismatic F....r, but I do expect them to reach 20% (once parties that fail to reach the 5% threshold are excluded). The French are lucky that they have 2-stage elections, so charismatic radicals are much less likely to progress in the 2nd round.
In France, a charismatic could seize the show at the TV debate that usually falls between the two rounds. I wouldn't call Jean-Marie Le Pen charismatic, but nonetheless in 2002 Jacques Chirac thought it best not to debate with him. His daughter has already learnt to stand with her arms out like Jesus on the cross.0 -
Both right I reckon.. "X" could be "The weather" and the split would be similarAlastairMeeks said:
For now, I'd agree. The more useful question is how this will change over time, particularly if - as seems pretty likely - at some point the NHS is perceived to be struggling.Richard_Nabavi said:Hmm, I'm not sure that the significance of this opinion poll finding is all that great.
Imagine an opinion poll which asked the question "Will leaving the EU have a good or bad effect on X?", where X was anything from 'the economy' to 'unemployment' or 'inequality' or 'the car industry'. You might well get similar answers as you do when X is 'the NHS': those who voted Leave think Brexit is a good thing for Britain, and those who voted Remain don't.0 -
When has it not been perceived to be struggling?AlastairMeeks said:
For now, I'd agree. The more useful question is how this will change over time, particularly if - as seems pretty likely - at some point the NHS is perceived to be struggling.Richard_Nabavi said:Hmm, I'm not sure that the significance of this opinion poll finding is all that great.
Imagine an opinion poll which asked the question "Will leaving the EU have a good or bad effect on X?", where X was anything from 'the economy' to 'unemployment' or 'inequality' or 'the car industry'. You might well get similar answers as you do when X is 'the NHS': those who voted Leave think Brexit is a good thing for Britain, and those who voted Remain don't.0 -
I am saying that as it stands we have a large number of EU nationals in the NHS. Part of the motivation for Brexit was to reduce immigration. Now of course Brexiters such as yourself are at pains to point out it is not the number, it is the control.Luckyguy1983 said:
You don't think we have more control over the immigration status of someone who has been issued a visa than we do over someone with freedom of movement?TOPPING said:
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
It's a view.
But the reality for "those people out there" is that it is the number of furriners walking our streets. For such people, whether nurses are Latvian or Jamaican will not alter matters much. It is a phantom "control" because although you will have achieved your aim, a large number of people will feel that not much has changed, certainly not what they thought they were voting for.0 -
The NHS is permanently in crisis though ?AlastairMeeks said:
For now, I'd agree. The more useful question is how this will change over time, particularly if - as seems pretty likely - at some point the NHS is perceived to be struggling.Richard_Nabavi said:Hmm, I'm not sure that the significance of this opinion poll finding is all that great.
Imagine an opinion poll which asked the question "Will leaving the EU have a good or bad effect on X?", where X was anything from 'the economy' to 'unemployment' or 'inequality' or 'the car industry'. You might well get similar answers as you do when X is 'the NHS': those who voted Leave think Brexit is a good thing for Britain, and those who voted Remain don't.0 -
I think for a large number of people out there, they don't care if the nurses are Jamaican or Latvian as long as the patients are British.TOPPING said:
I am saying that as it stands we have a large number of EU nationals in the NHS. Part of the motivation for Brexit was to reduce immigration. Now of course Brexiters such as yourself are at pains to point out it is not the number, it is the control.Luckyguy1983 said:
You don't think we have more control over the immigration status of someone who has been issued a visa than we do over someone with freedom of movement?TOPPING said:
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
It's a view.
But the reality for "those people out there" is that it is the number of furriners walking our streets. For such people, whether nurses are Latvian or Jamaican will not alter matters much. It is a phantom "control" because although you will have achieved your aim, a large number of people will feel that not much has changed, certainly not what they thought they were voting for.
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Brian Clough won two European cups with an unfashionable side.Maybe Farage will win two European referendums when we vote on Brexit deal.David_Evershed said:https://twitter.com/WikiGuido/status/817358268712493056
Nigel Farage is the Brian Clough of politics.
Discuss.0 -
It's official - Brexit Street leads nowhere.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/france-beaucaire-circular-road-brexit-street-mayor-julien-sanchez-robert-schuman-2016-120 -
The NHS employs 1.2m people. What happens when they get ill if they are all foreign?isam said:
I think for a large number of people out there, they don't care if the nurses are Jamaican or Latvian as long as the patients are British.TOPPING said:
I am saying that as it stands we have a large number of EU nationals in the NHS. Part of the motivation for Brexit was to reduce immigration. Now of course Brexiters such as yourself are at pains to point out it is not the number, it is the control.Luckyguy1983 said:
You don't think we have more control over the immigration status of someone who has been issued a visa than we do over someone with freedom of movement?TOPPING said:
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
It's a view.
But the reality for "those people out there" is that it is the number of furriners walking our streets. For such people, whether nurses are Latvian or Jamaican will not alter matters much. It is a phantom "control" because although you will have achieved your aim, a large number of people will feel that not much has changed, certainly not what they thought they were voting for.0 -
You cant be that stupid, I will have to take it you are being smart by playing dumbTOPPING said:
The NHS employs 1.2m people. What happens when they get ill if they are all foreign?isam said:
I think for a large number of people out there, they don't care if the nurses are Jamaican or Latvian as long as the patients are British.TOPPING said:
I am saying that as it stands we have a large number of EU nationals in the NHS. Part of the motivation for Brexit was to reduce immigration. Now of course Brexiters such as yourself are at pains to point out it is not the number, it is the control.Luckyguy1983 said:
You don't think we have more control over the immigration status of someone who has been issued a visa than we do over someone with freedom of movement?TOPPING said:
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
It's a view.
But the reality for "those people out there" is that it is the number of furriners walking our streets. For such people, whether nurses are Latvian or Jamaican will not alter matters much. It is a phantom "control" because although you will have achieved your aim, a large number of people will feel that not much has changed, certainly not what they thought they were voting for.0 -
Very wise man, Sam. Let me approach this from a different perspective. I find the idea of foreign NHS staff treating only the indigenous British deeply unattractive.isam said:
You cant be that stupid, I will have to take it you are being smart by playing dumbTOPPING said:
The NHS employs 1.2m people. What happens when they get ill if they are all foreign?isam said:
I think for a large number of people out there, they don't care if the nurses are Jamaican or Latvian as long as the patients are British.TOPPING said:
I am saying that as it stands we have a large number of EU nationals in the NHS. Part of the motivation for Brexit was to reduce immigration. Now of course Brexiters such as yourself are at pains to point out it is not the number, it is the control.Luckyguy1983 said:
You don't think we have more control over the immigration status of someone who has been issued a visa than we do over someone with freedom of movement?TOPPING said:
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
It's a view.
But the reality for "those people out there" is that it is the number of furriners walking our streets. For such people, whether nurses are Latvian or Jamaican will not alter matters much. It is a phantom "control" because although you will have achieved your aim, a large number of people will feel that not much has changed, certainly not what they thought they were voting for.0 -
-
Who said indigenous ?TOPPING said:
Very wise man, Sam. Let me approach this from a different perspective. I find the idea of foreign NHS staff treating only the indigenous British deeply unattractive.isam said:
You cant be that stupid, I will have to take it you are being smart by playing dumbTOPPING said:
The NHS employs 1.2m people. What happens when they get ill if they are all foreign?isam said:
I think for a large number of people out there, they don't care if the nurses are Jamaican or Latvian as long as the patients are British.TOPPING said:
I am saying that as it stands we have a large number of EU nationals in the NHS. Part of the motivation for Brexit was to reduce immigration. Now of course Brexiters such as yourself are at pains to point out it is not the number, it is the control.Luckyguy1983 said:
You don't think we have more control over the immigration status of someone who has been issued a visa than we do over someone with freedom of movement?TOPPING said:
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
It's a view.
But the reality for "those people out there" is that it is the number of furriners walking our streets. For such people, whether nurses are Latvian or Jamaican will not alter matters much. It is a phantom "control" because although you will have achieved your aim, a large number of people will feel that not much has changed, certainly not what they thought they were voting for.0 -
Well obviously, if they were ill, they would be treated on the NHS as well, as would their families. So what is so unattractive about it?TOPPING said:
very wise man, Sam. Let me approach this from a different perspective. I find the idea of foreign NHS staff treating only the indigenous British deeply unattractive.isam said:
You cant be that stupid, I will have to take it you are being smart by playing dumbTOPPING said:
The NHS employs 1.2m people. What happens when they get ill if they are all foreign?isam said:
I think for a large number of people out there, they don't care if the nurses are Jamaican or Latvian as long as the patients are British.TOPPING said:
I am saying that as it stands we have a large number of EU nationals in the NHS. Part of the motivation for Brexit was to reduce immigration. Now of course Brexiters such as yourself are at pains to point out it is not the number, it is the control.Luckyguy1983 said:
You don't think we have more control over the immigration status of someone who has been issued a visa than we do over someone with freedom of movement?TOPPING said:
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
It's a view.
But the reality for "those people out there" is that it is the number of furriners walking our streets. For such people, whether nurses are Latvian or Jamaican will not alter matters much. It is a phantom "control" because although you will have achieved your aim, a large number of people will feel that not much has changed, certainly not what they thought they were voting for.
0 -
It is noticeable that you did not answer the question and instead insulted TOPPING. Or, have you not got an answer ?isam said:
You cant be that stupid, I will have to take it you are being smart by playing dumbTOPPING said:
The NHS employs 1.2m people. What happens when they get ill if they are all foreign?isam said:
I think for a large number of people out there, they don't care if the nurses are Jamaican or Latvian as long as the patients are British.TOPPING said:
I am saying that as it stands we have a large number of EU nationals in the NHS. Part of the motivation for Brexit was to reduce immigration. Now of course Brexiters such as yourself are at pains to point out it is not the number, it is the control.Luckyguy1983 said:
You don't think we have more control over the immigration status of someone who has been issued a visa than we do over someone with freedom of movement?TOPPING said:
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
It's a view.
But the reality for "those people out there" is that it is the number of furriners walking our streets. For such people, whether nurses are Latvian or Jamaican will not alter matters much. It is a phantom "control" because although you will have achieved your aim, a large number of people will feel that not much has changed, certainly not what they thought they were voting for.0 -
There were a couple of weeks just after it opened.....but since then it's been a struggle of infinite demand meeting finite supply....Luckyguy1983 said:
When has it not been perceived to be struggling?AlastairMeeks said:
For now, I'd agree. The more useful question is how this will change over time, particularly if - as seems pretty likely - at some point the NHS is perceived to be struggling.Richard_Nabavi said:Hmm, I'm not sure that the significance of this opinion poll finding is all that great.
Imagine an opinion poll which asked the question "Will leaving the EU have a good or bad effect on X?", where X was anything from 'the economy' to 'unemployment' or 'inequality' or 'the car industry'. You might well get similar answers as you do when X is 'the NHS': those who voted Leave think Brexit is a good thing for Britain, and those who voted Remain don't.0 -
I see that Betfair has finally settled the US election turnout market.0
-
I tend to take the unsubtle "you're a racist" jibes as a sign I am winning the argumentTykejohnno said:
Who said indigenous ?TOPPING said:
Very wise man, Sam. Let me approach this from a different perspective. I find the idea of foreign NHS staff treating only the indigenous British deeply unattractive.isam said:
You cant be that stupid, I will have to take it you are being smart by playing dumbTOPPING said:
The NHS employs 1.2m people. What happens when they get ill if they are all foreign?isam said:
I think for a large number of people out there, they don't care if the nurses are Jamaican or Latvian as long as the patients are British.TOPPING said:
I am saying that as it stands we have a large number of EU nationals in the NHS. Part of the motivation for Brexit was to reduce immigration. Now of course Brexiters such as yourself are at pains to point out it is not the number, it is the control.Luckyguy1983 said:
You don't think we have more control over the immigration status of someone who has been issued a visa than we do over someone with freedom of movement?TOPPING said:
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
It's a view.
But the reality for "those people out there" is that it is the number of furriners walking our streets. For such people, whether nurses are Latvian or Jamaican will not alter matters much. It is a phantom "control" because although you will have achieved your aim, a large number of people will feel that not much has changed, certainly not what they thought they were voting for.0 -
Because we haven't left probably. The public "rightly expected" Cameron to trigger A50, as he promisedScott_P said:
http://openeurope.org.uk/daily-shakeup/cameron-government-would-promptly-trigger-article-50-in-the-event-of-a-leave-vote/0 -
I think that's an appalling caricature, but at any rate I can't speak for anyone but me.TOPPING said:
I am saying that as it stands we have a large number of EU nationals in the NHS. Part of the motivation for Brexit was to reduce immigration. Now of course Brexiters such as yourself are at pains to point out it is not the number, it is the control.Luckyguy1983 said:
You don't think we have more control over the immigration status of someone who has been issued a visa than we do over someone with freedom of movement?TOPPING said:
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
It's a view.
But the reality for "those people out there" is that it is the number of furriners walking our streets. For such people, whether nurses are Latvian or Jamaican will not alter matters much. It is a phantom "control" because although you will have achieved your aim, a large number of people will feel that not much has changed, certainly not what they thought they were voting for.
I think believe one of the absolute basic attributes of a sovereign nation is to control who comes within its borders. There may be future circumstances where we need more immigration, and circumstances where we need less, but either way it must be controlled, like a canal lock, not Niagara falls.0 -
Must have been quite something to see then. Spotless corridors, matron, nurses clicking along in starched uniforms (rather than slouching around in pyjamas like they do these days). Like you say, for about two weeks...CarlottaVance said:
There were a couple of weeks just after it opened.....but since then it's been a struggle of infinite demand meeting finite supply....Luckyguy1983 said:
When has it not been perceived to be struggling?AlastairMeeks said:
For now, I'd agree. The more useful question is how this will change over time, particularly if - as seems pretty likely - at some point the NHS is perceived to be struggling.Richard_Nabavi said:Hmm, I'm not sure that the significance of this opinion poll finding is all that great.
Imagine an opinion poll which asked the question "Will leaving the EU have a good or bad effect on X?", where X was anything from 'the economy' to 'unemployment' or 'inequality' or 'the car industry'. You might well get similar answers as you do when X is 'the NHS': those who voted Leave think Brexit is a good thing for Britain, and those who voted Remain don't.0 -
-
"I have asked the House to assemble because I wanted to clear the air. As we all know, the past few months have been unprecedented in our recent history as the British people voted to leave the EU.Scott_P said:
"As you will understand, such an undertaking is enormous, and will require us all to put our shoulders to the wheel to bring about a good outcome for the UK. I am here to apologise that not enough planning was done for this outcome but I can assure you and the people of the UK that we will be allocating our best people, increasing the size of departments where needed, and sparing nothing in our attempt to succeed which I can assure you we will do.
"As a first step, we will be consulting widely with industry in order to understand more clearly what the country needs and how we can deliver it. Once we have done that, we will be in a very strong position to begin negotiations with our EU partners to ensure we arrive at a strong, enduring and favourable deal for us.
"As you would expect, these things take time and it is for that reason that I have decided to wait before I trigger Article 50. This will give us the maximum time to ensure we can provide the best solution for all of us.
"While this is ongoing, you will understand also that the situation will remain fluid. I will update the House as and when I am able but it will often be the case that our consultations will be ongoing and I don't want to prejudice their outcome. Be assured, in each industrial and service sector we will publish our findings as soon as we are able and I look forward to the support from everyone in the House as we move through these challenging, but very exciting times."
But no, it was just the "no running commentary" bollocks.0 -
Oh - just saw this too
https://twitter.com/InspGadgetBlogs/status/817265665899921408/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw0 -
Which would have been unconstitutional of course.isam said:
Because we haven't left probably. The public "rightly expected" Cameron to trigger A50, as he promisedScott_P said:
http://openeurope.org.uk/daily-shakeup/cameron-government-would-promptly-trigger-article-50-in-the-event-of-a-leave-vote/0 -
Not racist, Sam, just bizarre, frankly.isam said:
I tend to take the unsubtle "you're a racist" jibes as a sign I am winning the argumentTykejohnno said:
Who said indigenous ?TOPPING said:
Very wise man, Sam. Let me approach this from a different perspective. I find the idea of foreign NHS staff treating only the indigenous British deeply unattractive.isam said:
You cant be that stupid, I will have to take it you are being smart by playing dumbTOPPING said:
The NHS employs 1.2m people. What happens when they get ill if they are all foreign?isam said:
I think for a large number of people out there, they don't care if the nurses are Jamaican or Latvian as long as the patients are British.TOPPING said:
I am saying that as it stands we have a large number of EU nationals in the NHS. Part of the motivation for Brexit was to reduce immigration. Now of course Brexiters such as yourself are at pains to point out it is not the number, it is the control.Luckyguy1983 said:
You don't think we have more control over the immigration status of someone who has been issued a visa than we do over someone with freedom of movement?TOPPING said:
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
It's a view.
But the reality for "those people out there" is that it is the number of furriners walking our streets. For such people, whether nurses are Latvian or Jamaican will not alter matters much. It is a phantom "control" because although you will have achieved your aim, a large number of people will feel that not much has changed, certainly not what they thought they were voting for.0 -
Oh I see! When Cameron said we should "rightly expect" him to trigger A50, what he meant was "the public would rightly expect that.. but they'd be wrong, because they don't understand the constitution, and have forgotten that the referendum, which I have called "your decision, not mine, not politicians, yours" was only 'advisory' "williamglenn said:
Which would have been unconstitutional of course.isam said:
Because we haven't left probably. The public "rightly expected" Cameron to trigger A50, as he promisedScott_P said:
http://openeurope.org.uk/daily-shakeup/cameron-government-would-promptly-trigger-article-50-in-the-event-of-a-leave-vote/
Cleverer man than I thought!
0 -
How many "x" days to save the NHS" campaigns are we up to now?Pulpstar said:
The NHS is permanently in crisis though ?AlastairMeeks said:
For now, I'd agree. The more useful question is how this will change over time, particularly if - as seems pretty likely - at some point the NHS is perceived to be struggling.Richard_Nabavi said:Hmm, I'm not sure that the significance of this opinion poll finding is all that great.
Imagine an opinion poll which asked the question "Will leaving the EU have a good or bad effect on X?", where X was anything from 'the economy' to 'unemployment' or 'inequality' or 'the car industry'. You might well get similar answers as you do when X is 'the NHS': those who voted Leave think Brexit is a good thing for Britain, and those who voted Remain don't.
0 -
Which bit is the appalling caricature?Luckyguy1983 said:
I think that's an appalling caricature, but at any rate I can't speak for anyone but me.TOPPING said:
I am saying that as it stands we have a large number of EU nationals in the NHS. Part of the motivation for Brexit was to reduce immigration. Now of course Brexiters such as yourself are at pains to point out it is not the number, it is the control.Luckyguy1983 said:
You don't think we have more control over the immigration status of someone who has been issued a visa than we do over someone with freedom of movement?TOPPING said:
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
It's a view.
But the reality for "those people out there" is that it is the number of furriners walking our streets. For such people, whether nurses are Latvian or Jamaican will not alter matters much. It is a phantom "control" because although you will have achieved your aim, a large number of people will feel that not much has changed, certainly not what they thought they were voting for.
I think believe one of the absolute basic attributes of a sovereign nation is to control who comes within its borders. There may be future circumstances where we need more immigration, and circumstances where we need less, but either way it must be controlled, like a canal lock, not Niagara falls.0 -
Another fine day in Jezza's bunker.Floater said:0 -
Amusingly I thought I would check via google - I got returns for 2016, 15, 14,13 etcFloater said:
How many "x" days to save the NHS" campaigns are we up to now?Pulpstar said:
The NHS is permanently in crisis though ?AlastairMeeks said:
For now, I'd agree. The more useful question is how this will change over time, particularly if - as seems pretty likely - at some point the NHS is perceived to be struggling.Richard_Nabavi said:Hmm, I'm not sure that the significance of this opinion poll finding is all that great.
Imagine an opinion poll which asked the question "Will leaving the EU have a good or bad effect on X?", where X was anything from 'the economy' to 'unemployment' or 'inequality' or 'the car industry'. You might well get similar answers as you do when X is 'the NHS': those who voted Leave think Brexit is a good thing for Britain, and those who voted Remain don't.
Shocked I tell you.0 -
Why didn't kippers kick up a fuss about it only being advisory when the Referendum bill was going through? The AV referendum legislation set out precisely what would happen if the vote had gone YES. More fool leavers for failing on this countisam said:
Oh I see! When Cameron said we should "rightly expect" him to trigger A50, what he meant was "the public would rightly expect that.. but they'd be wrong, because they don't understand the constitution, and have forgotten that the referendum, which I have called "your decision, not mine, not politicians, yours" was only 'advisory' "williamglenn said:
Which would have been unconstitutional of course.isam said:
Because we haven't left probably. The public "rightly expected" Cameron to trigger A50, as he promisedScott_P said:
http://openeurope.org.uk/daily-shakeup/cameron-government-would-promptly-trigger-article-50-in-the-event-of-a-leave-vote/
Cleverer man than I thought!
0 -
I don't think that Theresa May's "no running commentary" is what's causing her the problems. It's what she has said (and permitted to be said by other government ministers) that's leading to problems.0
-
Well why did you put indigenous ? When sam wrote british.TOPPING said:
Not racist, Sam, just bizarre, frankly.isam said:
I tend to take the unsubtle "you're a racist" jibes as a sign I am winning the argumentTykejohnno said:
Who said indigenous ?TOPPING said:
Very wise man, Sam. Let me approach this from a different perspective. I find the idea of foreign NHS staff treating only the indigenous British deeply unattractive.isam said:
You cant be that stupid, I will have to take it you are being smart by playing dumbTOPPING said:
The NHS employs 1.2m people. What happens when they get ill if they are all foreign?isam said:
I think for a large number of people out there, they don't care if the nurses are Jamaican or Latvian as long as the patients are British.TOPPING said:
I am saying that as it stands we have a large number of EU nationals in the NHS. Part of the motivation for Brexit was to reduce immigration. Now of course Brexiters such as yourself are at pains to point out it is not the number, it is the control.Luckyguy1983 said:
You don't think we have more control over the immigration status of someone who has been issued a visa than we do over someone with freedom of movement?TOPPING said:
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
It's a view.
But the reality for "those people out there" is that it is the number of furriners walking our streets. For such people, whether nurses are Latvian or Jamaican will not alter matters much. It is a phantom "control" because although you will have achieved your aim, a large number of people will feel that not much has changed, certainly not what they thought they were voting for.0 -
Carried away by my own hyperbole. The point stands with it removed.Tykejohnno said:
Well why did you put indigenous ? When sam wrote british.TOPPING said:
Not racist, Sam, just bizarre, frankly.isam said:
I tend to take the unsubtle "you're a racist" jibes as a sign I am winning the argumentTykejohnno said:
Who said indigenous ?TOPPING said:
Very wise man, Sam. Let me approach this from a different perspective. I find the idea of foreign NHS staff treating only the indigenous British deeply unattractive.isam said:
You cant be that stupid, I will have to take it you are being smart by playing dumbTOPPING said:
The NHS employs 1.2m people. What happens when they get ill if they are all foreign?isam said:
I think for a large number of people out there, they don't care if the nurses are Jamaican or Latvian as long as the patients are British.TOPPING said:
I am saying that as it stands we have a large number of EU nationals in the NHS. Part of the motivation for Brexit was to reduce immigration. Now of course Brexiters such as yourself are at pains to point out it is not the number, it is the control.Luckyguy1983 said:
You don't think we have more control over the immigration status of someone who has been issued a visa than we do over someone with freedom of movement?TOPPING said:
Oh I'm sure we would give them visas. Swap an EU nurse for a Filipina one. We will have achieved a huge step forward in taking control of immigration.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're so stupid we're not going to give visa's to foreign staff?TOPPING said:
staffingDavid_Evershed said:Why do REMAIN voters think leaving the EU will be bad for the NHS?
Why?
It's a view.
But the reality for "those people out there" is that it is the number of furriners walking our streets. For such people, whether nurses are Latvian or Jamaican will not alter matters much. It is a phantom "control" because although you will have achieved your aim, a large number of people will feel that not much has changed, certainly not what they thought they were voting for.0 -
Who needs a study? This guy has it sussed in 140 characters.Floater said:Oh - just saw this too
https://twitter.com/InspGadgetBlogs/status/817265665899921408/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw0 -
All of which would have been seen in a more sparing light if she had prefaced everything with a "farkin' ell we're in a right two an' eight".AlastairMeeks said:I don't think that Theresa May's "no running commentary" is what's causing her the problems. It's what she has said (and permitted to be said by other government ministers) that's leading to problems.
0 -
It will only satisfy those who admire creative accounting.MaxPB said:
Which is why the Tories will promise an extra £70m per week per year in the manifesto. That's an additional £350m per week by the end of the period and it allows for inflation to cut into the real terms amount by well over half. That will satisfy almost everyone, including voters in Lab/Con marginals who voted Leave.TheScreamingEagles said:That £350m per week for the NHS has the potential to be the new 'Read my lips, no new taxes'
0 -
Snappy! Put it on a Lib Dem poster Mike!MikeSmithson said:
Why didn't kippers kick up a fuss about it only being advisory when the Referendum bill was going through? The AV referendum legislation set out precisely what would happen if the vote had gone YES. More fool leavers for failing on this countisam said:
Oh I see! When Cameron said we should "rightly expect" him to trigger A50, what he meant was "the public would rightly expect that.. but they'd be wrong, because they don't understand the constitution, and have forgotten that the referendum, which I have called "your decision, not mine, not politicians, yours" was only 'advisory' "williamglenn said:
Which would have been unconstitutional of course.isam said:
Because we haven't left probably. The public "rightly expected" Cameron to trigger A50, as he promisedScott_P said:
http://openeurope.org.uk/daily-shakeup/cameron-government-would-promptly-trigger-article-50-in-the-event-of-a-leave-vote/
Cleverer man than I thought!0 -
Scott probably missed this one
http://order-order.com/2017/01/06/brexit-support-soars-among-over-50s/0 -
Did Farage win the Referendum? Wasn't it mainly the Boris/Gove show?Yorkcity said:
Brian Clough won two European cups with an unfashionable side.Maybe Farage will win two European referendums when we vote on Brexit deal.David_Evershed said:https://twitter.com/WikiGuido/status/817358268712493056
Nigel Farage is the Brian Clough of politics.
Discuss.0 -
Nah, it was Labour Leave wot won it:logical_song said:
Did Farage win the Referendum? Wasn't it mainly the Boris/Gove show?Yorkcity said:
Brian Clough won two European cups with an unfashionable side.Maybe Farage will win two European referendums when we vote on Brexit deal.David_Evershed said:https://twitter.com/WikiGuido/status/817358268712493056
Nigel Farage is the Brian Clough of politics.
Discuss.
"Wipe the smile off their faces", and all that.0 -
Has there ever been polling on this? I would say it went Boris, Farage, Govelogical_song said:
Did Farage win the Referendum? Wasn't it mainly the Boris/Gove show?Yorkcity said:
Brian Clough won two European cups with an unfashionable side.Maybe Farage will win two European referendums when we vote on Brexit deal.David_Evershed said:https://twitter.com/WikiGuido/status/817358268712493056
Nigel Farage is the Brian Clough of politics.
Discuss.0 -
No Farage, no referendum. Like it or not, the two most influential politicians in the UK since Tony Blair have been Salmond and Farage.logical_song said:
Did Farage win the Referendum? Wasn't it mainly the Boris/Gove show?Yorkcity said:
Brian Clough won two European cups with an unfashionable side.Maybe Farage will win two European referendums when we vote on Brexit deal.David_Evershed said:https://twitter.com/WikiGuido/status/817358268712493056
Nigel Farage is the Brian Clough of politics.
Discuss.0 -
I don't think you could ever poll that meaningfully.isam said:
Has there ever been polling on this? I would say it went Boris, Farage, Govelogical_song said:
Did Farage win the Referendum? Wasn't it mainly the Boris/Gove show?Yorkcity said:
Brian Clough won two European cups with an unfashionable side.Maybe Farage will win two European referendums when we vote on Brexit deal.David_Evershed said:https://twitter.com/WikiGuido/status/817358268712493056
Nigel Farage is the Brian Clough of politics.
Discuss.
People regularly underestimate how viewing any sort of advertisement has changed their perception.0 -
But Farage lost 7 times trying to be an MP so, although he has achieved his lifetimes ambition and changed the face of British politics, he is still a loser....Ishmael_Z said:
No Farage, no referendum. Like it or not, the two most influential politicians in the UK since Tony Blair have been Salmond and Farage.logical_song said:
Did Farage win the Referendum? Wasn't it mainly the Boris/Gove show?Yorkcity said:
Brian Clough won two European cups with an unfashionable side.Maybe Farage will win two European referendums when we vote on Brexit deal.David_Evershed said:https://twitter.com/WikiGuido/status/817358268712493056
Nigel Farage is the Brian Clough of politics.
Discuss.0 -
Diversity Manager, Corbynite & Parish Councillor are Labour hoping to lose? http://labourlist.org/2017/01/corbynista-and-nhs-manager-named-as-labours-candidate-in-west-of-england/0
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There are two separate points being made by the thread header and only one of them is addressed in the poll quoted.
The first - which is not referenced in the poll and which Mike adds in - is the question of the £350 million a week. This was a dumb move by Leave from start to finish. The real number that could realistically be available was around £210 million. Even if we reasonably accept that not all of that money would be put to the NHS it was at least a number that could be proved was a potential saving fro leaving the EU and is still a vast amount of money. The £350 million could not reasonably defended by anyone with a modicum of integrity.
But that aside the second point is whether or not any extra money will be available from leaving the EU. Obviously most people, quite reasonably, believe that it will be and I do not share Mike's view that this will be difficult to fulfil. Remain supporters seem to be under the mistaken impression that because the £350 million figure is garbage then the alternative is that there will be no benefit for the NHS at all. I suspect they are the ones who will find this a difficult position to maintain.0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.0
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You think the industrial estate with the businesses and jobs etc there that the Rue leads to is nowhere?logical_song said:It's official - Brexit Street leads nowhere.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/france-beaucaire-circular-road-brexit-street-mayor-julien-sanchez-robert-schuman-2016-12
It's a thought. Who needs industry or jobs? Not people like @logical_song ...0 -
Regarding the "advisory" wheeze, is what those who lost the referendum wish us to believe, that had Cameron campaigned for Leave, but Remain had won, they would be ok with him triggering A50 and us leaving anyway?0
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Only if you believe in the Brexit dividend bullshit.Richard_Tyndall said:the second point is whether or not any extra money will be available from leaving the EU. Obviously most people, quite reasonably, believe that it will be
If we take a financial hit from leaving there will not be any extra money for anything, especially the NHS0 -
You really don't pay any attention to actual news at all do you. I am afraid the only one spouting bullshit around here is you.Scott_P said:
Only if you believe in the Brexit dividend bullshit.Richard_Tyndall said:the second point is whether or not any extra money will be available from leaving the EU. Obviously most people, quite reasonably, believe that it will be
If we take a financial hit from leaving there will not be any extra money for anything, especially the NHS0 -
People like John Redwood, Douglas Carswell and the rest of the 81 Tory rebels that forced Cameron to hold a referendum also achieved their ambitions while managing to get elected.isam said:
But Farage lost 7 times trying to be an MP so, although he has achieved his lifetimes ambition and changed the face of British politics, he is still a loser....Ishmael_Z said:
No Farage, no referendum. Like it or not, the two most influential politicians in the UK since Tony Blair have been Salmond and Farage.logical_song said:
Did Farage win the Referendum? Wasn't it mainly the Boris/Gove show?Yorkcity said:
Brian Clough won two European cups with an unfashionable side.Maybe Farage will win two European referendums when we vote on Brexit deal.David_Evershed said:https://twitter.com/WikiGuido/status/817358268712493056
Nigel Farage is the Brian Clough of politics.
Discuss.0 -
Re Labour Metro Mayor in Bristol, Bath ex MP no she's a Diversity Manager tick, Corbinite tick, Parish Councillor tick.
http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/bristol-metro-mayor-election-2017-labour-candidate-revealed/story-30036003-detail/story.html0 -
If.Scott_P said:
Only if you believe in the Brexit dividend bullshit.Richard_Tyndall said:the second point is whether or not any extra money will be available from leaving the EU. Obviously most people, quite reasonably, believe that it will be
If we take a financial hit from leaving there will not be any extra money for anything, especially the NHS
(© Sparta)0
This discussion has been closed.