I've just done some creative googling to try to figure out how the bookies did on Trump.
PP are loudly crying about making a huge loss, but I think William hill lost more. From what I can tell, PP took ~£5m and lost £500k after taking into account their early payout. WH had similar takings, but a larger loss. SPIN made somewhere between six and seven figures. respect to @Jungleland
Silence from ladbrokes. Which - I assume - means they made a packet. If so, well done @shadsy !
I'm a big Mars buff, but Mars terraforming is genuinely "difficult".
Hugely. What's the air pressure at the surface: 1-5millibars? How much is it on Earth? 1000millibars. How many cubic kilometers of air do we need to transport to Mars? Lots. What's the most oxygen we've transported outside low earth orbit? Six Lunar Lander upper stages, very approx 100 cubic metres of air. How much did that cost? About 100 billion dollars in today's money (or about one Brexit in pre-devaluation pounds). So that's about a billion dollars per cubic meter, assuming same cost to Mars as t'moon.
The surface of Mars is about 150million square kilometers, that's 150 trillion square metres, and we need to fill it about 100km deep, that's 100,000 metres deep, so that's 15,000,000 trillion cubic metres of air to Mars . At a billion dollars per cubic metre.
Shit, I'll have to switch to exponential here.
15*10^18 cubic metres at 1*10^9 dollars per cubic metre, gives us
More importantly £58bn would give us a free bar for a number of PB drinks so's. Incidentally, when is the next one planned?
Unknown. Sorry, one of my bugbears is how people *really* find it difficult to handle large numbers, and in the public sphere it's a genuine problem. Andrew Lilico, who is in theory well educated, once wrote an article saying that the cost of the climate change program was the same as terraforming Mars. The enormous lack of sense that that article betrayed (spoiler alert: it's way, way out) was one of my first eyeopeners as to how the metropolitan elite should never under any circumstances be let near numbers greater than seven.
Actually, Mr. Code, as I remember from my maths days, very few people can imagine numbers greater than seven. The human brain just doesn't seem wired to cope with the idea. For example, ask someone to read out a six digit telephone number and they will almost invariably read it out in two groups of three numbers. A seven digit number is almost invariably given as two groups of three plus the final digit or two groups of two plus a group of three.
The maximum number of concurrent ideas the majority of people can simultaneously cope with seems to be 5 plus or minus two. The pattern is seen in all walks of life. In the military, for example, the command span (i.e. the number of subordinates a commander is directly in charge of) seldom exceeds five and three is the norm.
Once politicians and so forth start talking about billions the vast majority don't have a clue of the scale of the amount being discussed. We have seen it on here this evening 58.7 billion is a very big number. £58.7 billion is an awful lot of money, but over five years in an economy that turns over £2trillion pounds a year and with public spending running at £700bn a year, it is a fecking rounding error.
I do love that 0.7 at the end too. As if anyone in The Treasury or the OBR is capable of forecasting to that degree of accuracy fives years out.
I've just done some creative googling to try to figure out how the bookies did on Trump.
PP are loudly crying about making a huge loss, but I think William hill lost more. From what I can tell, PP took ~£5m and lost £500k after taking into account their early payout. WH had similar takings, but a larger loss. SPIN made something between six and seven figures.
Silence from ladbrokes. Which - I assume - means they made a packet. If so, well done @shadsy !
Spreadex were arbing/ High value SPIN's price for a while, so I'm guessing they might have made a loss.
I'm a big Mars buff, but Mars terraforming is genuinely "difficult".
Hugely. What's the air pressure at the surface: 1-5millibars? How much is it on Earth? 1000millibars. How many cubic kilometers of air do we need to transport to Mars? Lots. What's the most oxygen we've transported outside low earth orbit? Six Lunar Lander upper stages, very approx 100 cubic metres of air. How much did that cost? About 100 billion dollars in today's money (or about one Brexit in pre-devaluation pounds). So that's about a billion dollars per cubic meter, assuming same cost to Mars as t'moon.
The surface of Mars is about 150million square kilometers, that's 150 trillion square metres, and we need to fill it about 100km deep, that's 100,000 metres deep, so that's 15,000,000 trillion cubic metres of air to Mars . At a billion dollars per cubic metre.
Shit, I'll have to switch to exponential here.
15*10^18 cubic metres at 1*10^9 dollars per cubic metre, gives us
I've just done some creative googling to try to figure out how the bookies did on Trump.
PP are loudly crying about making a huge loss, but I think William hill lost more. From what I can tell, PP took ~£5m and lost £500k after taking into account their early payout. WH had similar takings, but a larger loss. SPIN made something between six and seven figures.
Silence from ladbrokes. Which - I assume - means they made a packet. If so, well done @shadsy !
Spreadex were arbing/ High value SPIN's price for a while, so I'm guessing they might have made a loss.
As far as I am aware SPIN were the only winners out there. bet365 declared losses of around £4m.
Completely off topic but I have just been to see Arrival at my local Odeon. The most cerebral of the contact genre with a great performance from Amy Adams. I was intrigued by the concept of double sided orthography - the ability to write a sentence from both ends simultaneously because you know what goes in the middle.
Terraforming is an interesting one. Transporting oxygen or air is a non starter, and creating the molton core nessecary to hold an atmosphere are both a bit challenging.
The only viable way to produce an atmosphere on another planet is to extract it from minerals on Mars, hence the importance of testing soil samples suitable for producing oxygen and water. Probably this would need to be via genetically modified bacteria.
I've just done some creative googling to try to figure out how the bookies did on Trump.
PP are loudly crying about making a huge loss, but I think William hill lost more. From what I can tell, PP took ~£5m and lost £500k after taking into account their early payout. WH had similar takings, but a larger loss. SPIN made something between six and seven figures.
Silence from ladbrokes. Which - I assume - means they made a packet. If so, well done @shadsy !
Spreadex were arbing/ High value SPIN's price for a while, so I'm guessing they might have made a loss.
As far as I am aware SPIN were the only winners out there. bet365 declared losses of around £4m.
I'm a big Mars buff, but Mars terraforming is genuinely "difficult".
Hugely. What's the air pressure at the surface: 1-5millibars? How much is it on Earth? 1000millibars. How many cubic kilometers of air do we need to transport to Mars? Lots. What's the most oxygen we've transported outside low earth orbit? Six Lunar Lander upper stages, very approx 100 cubic metres of air. How much did that cost? About 100 billion dollars in today's money (or about one Brexit in pre-devaluation pounds). So that's about a billion dollars per cubic meter, assuming same cost to Mars as t'moon.
The surface of Mars is about 150million square kilometers, that's 150 trillion square metres, and we need to fill it about 100km deep, that's 100,000 metres deep, so that's 15,000,000 trillion cubic metres of air to Mars . At a billion dollars per cubic metre.
Shit, I'll have to switch to exponential here.
15*10^18 cubic metres at 1*10^9 dollars per cubic metre, gives us
More importantly £58bn would give us a free bar for a number of PB drinks so's. Incidentally, when is the next one planned?
£58.7 billion is an awful lot of money, but over five years in an economy that turns over £2trillion pounds a year and with public spending running at £700bn a year, it is a fecking rounding error.
Do keep up.....by the end of the 5 years it will be over £800 billion......as you write, in government terms a 20p you found down the back of the sofa.....
That looks exactly like a battle plan which won't survive contact with the enemy. The EU really can't seriously expect to go into negotiations saying 'we need to agree X and Y completely before we'll discuss Z'. As any fule 'no, nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. So Theresa May simply has to respond that 'we are happy to discuss contributions to the EU budget, but obviously we can't finalise that until we have agreed a deal on trade. After all, we obviously might not want to contribute a single Euro, depending on how much access to the single market we have'.
Just for the record, it's "As any fule kno"
Apart from that, I agree with you. Mind, I wish she would hurry up and get on with it.
The reporting is crap as usual - not just because there is a lack of knowledge at this time, which is understandable, but because it's crap: police are not "hunting" a man whom they have under "siege" - but it's very likely to be terrorism. If the buildings weren't home to 70 monks it could have been a youngster who was keen on Game of Thrones. It's similar to the brutal murder of the octogenarian priest in Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray.
Was the reporting ongoing during today's Fillon-Juppé debate?
Terraforming is an interesting one. Transporting oxygen or air is a non starter, and creating the molton core nessecary to hold an atmosphere are both a bit challenging.
The only viable way to produce an atmosphere on another planet is to extract it from minerals on Mars, hence the importance of testing soil samples suitable for producing oxygen and water. Probably this would need to be via genetically modified bacteria.
Agreed, but these are theoretical approaches, and there's a difference between theory and a realised technology that you can implement, schedule and cost. The steps necessary to convert the one to the other are always difficult.
Completely off topic but I have just been to see Arrival at my local Odeon. The most cerebral of the contact genre with a great performance from Amy Adams. I was intrigued by the concept of double sided orthography - the ability to write a sentence from both ends simultaneously because you know what goes in the middle.
I've just seen it too and though ........................................................ and Amy Adams was excellent.
Terraforming is an interesting one. Transporting oxygen or air is a non starter, and creating the molton core nessecary to hold an atmosphere are both a bit challenging.
The only viable way to produce an atmosphere on another planet is to extract it from minerals on Mars, hence the importance of testing soil samples suitable for producing oxygen and water. Probably this would need to be via genetically modified bacteria.
Agreed, but these are theoretical approaches, and there's a difference between theory and a realised technology that you can implement, schedule and cost. The steps necessary to convert the one to the other are always difficult.
It would have been interesting to see what Comet Siding Spring would have done in terms of terraforming Mars, if it had hit.
Changes to the atmosphere would take thousands of years to dissipate, incidentally. Without a magnetosphere etc, *eventually* it would return to status quo... but rather slowly.
* SPIN made "between six and seven figures" * PP took ~£5m and lost £500k after taking into account their early payout. * WH had similar takings, but a larger loss.is * Ladbrokes presumably made a profit * bet365 declared losses of around £4m. * Spreadex might have made a loss.
I already have a source for SPIN's profit. Do we have sources for the others?
Completely off topic but I have just been to see Arrival at my local Odeon. The most cerebral of the contact genre with a great performance from Amy Adams. I was intrigued by the concept of double sided orthography - the ability to write a sentence from both ends simultaneously because you know what goes in the middle.
Pssht. Germans effectively do that as a matter of course. From an English point of view.
Terraforming is an interesting one. Transporting oxygen or air is a non starter, and creating the molton core nessecary to hold an atmosphere are both a bit challenging.
The only viable way to produce an atmosphere on another planet is to extract it from minerals on Mars, hence the importance of testing soil samples suitable for producing oxygen and water. Probably this would need to be via genetically modified bacteria.
Agreed, but these are theoretical approaches, and there's a difference between theory and a realised technology that you can implement, schedule and cost. The steps necessary to convert the one to the other are always difficult.
It would have been interesting to see what Comet Siding Spring would have done in terms of terraforming Mars, if it had hit.
Changes to the atmosphere would take thousands of years to dissipate, incidentally. Without a magnetosphere etc, *eventually* it would return to status quo... but rather slowly.
Given that it is only a few hundred metres in diameter, comet Siding Spring would surely have had very little long-term impact on Mars' climate. Its mass is just too small. A short-term nuclear winter type effect, sure, but nothing remotely like terraforming.
* SPIN made "between six and seven figures" * PP took ~£5m and lost £500k after taking into account their early payout. * WH had similar takings, but a larger loss.is * Ladbrokes presumably made a profit * bet365 declared losses of around £4m. * Spreadex might have made a loss.
I already have a source for SPIN's profit. Do we have sources for the others?
I'm not sure why you imagine Spreadex made a loss, having regard to its nearest competitor's (i.e. Sporting's) "six - seven figure profit" Actually Spreadex should have fared even better by sticking to its greedy 15 ECV spread, although in truth this probably resulted (I hope) in it transacting very little business by comparison with Sporting, which was equally greedy until it saw sense. Goose, golden egg and all that.
We all know that "Black Friday" is just one enormous American-imported marketing gimick.
That said, it's very brave of M&S, given its recent dire trading record, to totally ignore it, given that the concept has been embraced however reluctantly by the likes of Selfridges, House of Fraser, John Lewis, Next (sort of), etc, etc.
God help the big cheeses at M&S if they've called this wrong ..... this is their last big chance to shift potentially dodgy stock this side of Christmas. Heads could roll!
Trump isn't obsessed with race? well it's a view I guess.
He isn't. That much is clear.
Agreed, Trump doesn't care about race. But as one of the most cynical politicians of recent times he is happy to play the race card for all it's worth, if it will benefit him.
Spain would reject any attempt by Nicola Sturgeon for Scotland to stay in the EU single market if the rest of the UK comes out, one of the country’s most powerful MEPs warned last night.
Esteban Gonzalez Pons, who leads the Spanish delegation of MEPs in the European Parliament’s largest political grouping, told the Telegraph that Ms Sturgeon’s proposals for a special Scottish deal are “impossible.”
"Anyone can rat.....it takes though a certain ingenuity to re-rat." Winston Churchill in 1923 on rejoining the Conservative Party having defected to the Liberals
Carlisle Eastbourne and Pendle could all be significant* markets
* well as significant as parish council results get
Oh dear Charles - in failing to use the < joke > tags you're in danger of spending much of tomorrow explaining to the PB po faced that you do, actually, know what a local council does....
He meant not to use a funny face, if he could he would have Lords and Ladies making all the decisions for their peasants.
Terraforming is an interesting one. Transporting oxygen or air is a non starter, and creating the molton core nessecary to hold an atmosphere are both a bit challenging.
The only viable way to produce an atmosphere on another planet is to extract it from minerals on Mars, hence the importance of testing soil samples suitable for producing oxygen and water. Probably this would need to be via genetically modified bacteria.
"... and creating the molton core nessecary to hold an atmosphere "
The main mechanism by which atmosphere is lost (mainly lighter gasses first) is via the solar wind stripping off the gasses. That does not happen on Earth as much because our molten core creates a magnetic field (magnetosphere) that diverts most of the solar wind, and losses tend to be by other mechanisms that are partly offset by infall (think shooting stars).
So the idea is that any gasses would be lost. However they are lost over a geological timescale; whereas the terraforming will be much faster. Therefore we lose atmosphere much slower than we can replace it.
Also, terraforming isn't just about making an Earth-simulacrum; Mars' much lower gravity will not allow that anyway. What may be easier is terraforming to make it *easier* to live on the planet. Increasing atmospheric pressure would be a good start.
As an aside, even Mercury has a thin, tenuous atmosphere despite its lack of atmosphere and closeness to the Sun.
As a further aside, Venus shows that you do not need a molten core to have an atmosphere. Venus does not have a molten core, and it's atmosphere is rather thick. What it does have is an induced magnetosphere that prevents heavier gasses from being stripped off. Therefore the light gasses have gone, leaving a thick layer of dense carbon dioxide.
The really interesting question is why Venus does not have a molten core; the answer may be that Mars was originally part of Venus ...
"Anyone can rat.....it takes though a certain ingenuity to re-rat." Winston Churchill in 1923 on rejoining the Conservative Party having defected to the Liberals
I'm a big Mars buff, but Mars terraforming is genuinely "difficult".
Hugely. What's the air pressure at the surface: 1-5millibars? How much is it on Earth? 1000millibars. How many cubic kilometers of air do we need to transport to Mars? Lots. What's the most oxygen we've transported outside low earth orbit? Six Lunar Lander upper stages, very approx 100 cubic metres of air. How much did that cost? About 100 billion dollars in today's money (or about one Brexit in pre-devaluation pounds). So that's about a billion dollars per cubic meter, assuming same cost to Mars as t'moon.
The surface of Mars is about 150million square kilometers, that's 150 trillion square metres, and we need to fill it about 100km deep, that's 100,000 metres deep, so that's 15,000,000 trillion cubic metres of air to Mars . At a billion dollars per cubic metre.
Shit, I'll have to switch to exponential here.
15*10^18 cubic metres at 1*10^9 dollars per cubic metre, gives us
15*10^27dollars to make Mars air breathable, or
(deep breath)
15,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 dollars.
Pause.
Fuck it, let's build a Death Star...
Does that final figure include VAT /sales Tax and delivery?
Terraforming is an interesting one. Transporting oxygen or air is a non starter, and creating the molton core nessecary to hold an atmosphere are both a bit challenging.
The only viable way to produce an atmosphere on another planet is to extract it from minerals on Mars, hence the importance of testing soil samples suitable for producing oxygen and water. Probably this would need to be via genetically modified bacteria.
"The only viable way to produce an atmosphere on another planet is to extract it from minerals on Mars"
Some proposals have asteroids and comets being captured and fired at Mars; as they burn up in Mars' atmosphere they will add gasses to the atmosphere, as well as warming it.
Incidentally, one of NASA's aims (which might change under Trump) is to capture part of an asteroid and bring it back towards the Moon so it can be studied.
Diverting asteroids and comets into Mars would be much cheaper and easier than other methods; if you plan it right you don't need much delta-V. It would also make a rather good weapons system ...
Terraforming is an interesting one. Transporting oxygen or air is a non starter, and creating the molton core nessecary to hold an atmosphere are both a bit challenging.
The only viable way to produce an atmosphere on another planet is to extract it from minerals on Mars, hence the importance of testing soil samples suitable for producing oxygen and water. Probably this would need to be via genetically modified bacteria.
"... and creating the molton core nessecary to hold an atmosphere "
The main mechanism by which atmosphere is lost (mainly lighter gasses first) is via the solar wind stripping off the gasses. That does not happen on Earth as much because our molten core creates a magnetic field (magnetosphere) that diverts most of the solar wind, and losses tend to be by other mechanisms that are partly offset by infall (think shooting stars).
So the idea is that any gasses would be lost. However they are lost over a geological timescale; whereas the terraforming will be much faster. Therefore we lose atmosphere much slower than we can replace it.
Also, terraforming isn't just about making an Earth-simulacrum; Mars' much lower gravity will not allow that anyway. What may be easier is terraforming to make it *easier* to live on the planet. Increasing atmospheric pressure would be a good start.
As an aside, even Mercury has a thin, tenuous atmosphere despite its lack of atmosphere and closeness to the Sun.
As a further aside, Venus shows that you do not need a molten core to have an atmosphere. Venus does not have a molten core, and it's atmosphere is rather thick. What it does have is an induced magnetosphere that prevents heavier gasses from being stripped off. Therefore the light gasses have gone, leaving a thick layer of dense carbon dioxide.
The really interesting question is why Venus does not have a molten core; the answer may be that Mars was originally part of Venus ...
Titan may be a better spot for terraforming. It seems to hold an atmosphere well, has reasonable gravity and enough hydrocarbons to make the trip worthwhile. Bit chilly though...
Spain would reject any attempt by Nicola Sturgeon for Scotland to stay in the EU single market if the rest of the UK comes out, one of the country’s most powerful MEPs warned last night.
Esteban Gonzalez Pons, who leads the Spanish delegation of MEPs in the European Parliament’s largest political grouping, told the Telegraph that Ms Sturgeon’s proposals for a special Scottish deal are “impossible.”
I think the dumb fools are the ones arguing that 'the single market is critical to Scottish jobs' then arguing that the 'single market' that accounts for 17% of Scotland's trade is somehow more important than the one that accounts for 64% of Scotland's trade.....fortunately the Scottish people are not quite as gullible as the zoomers.....
Carlisle Eastbourne and Pendle could all be significant* markets
* well as significant as parish council results get
Oh dear Charles - in failing to use the < joke > tags you're in danger of spending much of tomorrow explaining to the PB po faced that you do, actually, know what a local council does....
He meant not to use a funny face, if he could he would have Lords and Ladies making all the decisions for their peasants.
Not with the current crop of Lords, I wouldn't! Now if you meant those with pre-Lloyd George peerages...*
Seriously though, Sovereignty descends from the people. In my view local government as it is currently set up is barely functional mess, but there is clearly a need for local democratic structures for local service delivery
Spain would reject any attempt by Nicola Sturgeon for Scotland to stay in the EU single market if the rest of the UK comes out, one of the country’s most powerful MEPs warned last night.
Esteban Gonzalez Pons, who leads the Spanish delegation of MEPs in the European Parliament’s largest political grouping, told the Telegraph that Ms Sturgeon’s proposals for a special Scottish deal are “impossible.”
I think the dumb fools are the ones arguing that 'the single market is critical to Scottish jobs' then arguing that the 'single market' that accounts for 17% of Scotland's trade is somehow more important than the one that accounts for 64% of Scotland's trade.....fortunately the Scottish people are not quite as gullible as the zoomers.....
I think that 2016 has demonstrated to perfection that inconvenient facts are easily ignored by gullible voters!
Indeed there was a very interesting piece on Channel 4 news last night about how Macedonia became the centre of the fake news industry. Hundreds of teenage computer students were running fake news stories "Pope endorses Trump" "Hillary Clinton arrested for paedophilia" etc etc. The sort of alt.right stuff we got spammed with over the summer here.
They made their money from Pay Per Click advertising to gullible Trumpsters. As PT Barnum famously said " No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public"
A good piece on the Philipino President openly inciting lynch law and death squads to control drug traffickers too.
Completely off topic but I have just been to see Arrival at my local Odeon. The most cerebral of the contact genre with a great performance from Amy Adams. I was intrigued by the concept of double sided orthography - the ability to write a sentence from both ends simultaneously because you know what goes in the middle.
I've just seen it too and though ........................................................ and Amy Adams was excellent.
No - it doesn't work for me.
It was ok. Well shot, acted, but the twist was obvious, the emotion not impacting, and as with most movies like it, not as clever as it thinks it is.
It's possible to make a credible case for it, but there is very little public or political appetite for it, and until the former there won't be the latter, and by then we're already out.
Terraforming is an interesting one. Transporting oxygen or air is a non starter, and creating the molton core nessecary to hold an atmosphere are both a bit challenging.
The only viable way to produce an atmosphere on another planet is to extract it from minerals on Mars, hence the importance of testing soil samples suitable for producing oxygen and water. Probably this would need to be via genetically modified bacteria.
"... and creating the molton core nessecary to hold an atmosphere "
The main mechanism by which atmosphere is lost (mainly lighter gasses first) is via the solar wind stripping off the gasses. That does not happen on Earth as much because our molten core creates a magnetic field (magnetosphere) that diverts most of the solar wind, and losses tend to be by other mechanisms that are partly offset by infall (think shooting stars).
So the idea is that any gasses would be lost. However they are lost over a geological timescale; whereas the terraforming will be much faster. Therefore we lose atmosphere much slower than we can replace it.
Also, terraforming isn't just about making an Earth-simulacrum; Mars' much lower gravity will not allow that anyway. What may be easier is terraforming to make it *easier* to live on the planet. Increasing atmospheric pressure would be a good start.
As an aside, even Mercury has a thin, tenuous atmosphere despite its lack of atmosphere and closeness to the Sun.
As a further aside, Venus shows that you do not need a molten core to have an atmosphere. Venus does not have a molten core, and it's atmosphere is rather thick. What it does have is an induced magnetosphere that prevents heavier gasses from being stripped off. Therefore the light gasses have gone, leaving a thick layer of dense carbon dioxide.
The really interesting question is why Venus does not have a molten core; the answer may be that Mars was originally part of Venus ...
Titan may be a better spot for terraforming. It seems to hold an atmosphere well, has reasonable gravity and enough hydrocarbons to make the trip worthwhile. Bit chilly though...
Possibly, but not using current space tech, It takes too much energy to get there.
Some might find the following interesting (or not): there are various charts that show the delta-v (change in velocity) required to get around the solar system:
On topic, I think we're in the post UKIP era, which benefits the Conservatives. Labour doing badly and Lib Dems treading water.
I don't think Theresa May has anything to fear from a new election.
I am not so sure. That was the consensus a few years ago, but now we know that most kipper voters were not Tory inclined even if most kipper activists were pissed off Eurosceptic Tories, along with their leaders.
If UKIP breaks up as a party the voters may well not follow the lead of the activists to rejoin the Toryright. Many may well return to other opposition parties inc Labour and LDs. Voters are often a bit awkward like that.
On topic, I think we're in the post UKIP era, which benefits the Conservatives. Labour doing badly and Lib Dems treading water.
I don't think Theresa May has anything to fear from a new election.
I am not so sure. That was the consensus a few years ago, but now we know that most kipper voters were not Tory inclined even if most kipper activists were pissed off Eurosceptic Tories, along with their leaders.
If UKIP breaks up as a party the voters may well not follow the lead of the activists to rejoin the Toryright. Many may well return to other opposition parties inc Labour and LDs. Voters are often a bit awkward like that.
Not convinced they will rejoin any of the parties TBH. Suspect they won't vote if the mainstream parties don't address their needs.
On topic, I think we're in the post UKIP era, which benefits the Conservatives. Labour doing badly and Lib Dems treading water.
I don't think Theresa May has anything to fear from a new election.
I am not so sure. That was the consensus a few years ago, but now we know that most kipper voters were not Tory inclined even if most kipper activists were pissed off Eurosceptic Tories, along with their leaders.
If UKIP breaks up as a party the voters may well not follow the lead of the activists to rejoin the Toryright. Many may well return to other opposition parties inc Labour and LDs. Voters are often a bit awkward like that.
Yup they'll clearly surge to the LDs and follow Farron back into the Euro and the EU - I thought it was Black friday not April Fool!
If Tony Blair and John Major want to do something useful re Brexit they should both take the peerages they are entitled to pronto. If the Supreme Court upholds the Crown Prerogative ruling we'll need their votes in the Lords. And the Lords would appreciate a bit of former prime ministerial star dust. I think Gordon is less suited to the Lords but it would add to the sense of drama and occassion if he went with them.
It's possible to make a credible case for it, but there is very little public or political appetite for it, and until the former there won't be the latter, and by then we're already out.
There's plenty of opportunities for "events, dear boy". All we've seen so far if the drop in the pound - and the benefits from that, the problems lag a bit.
If Tony Blair and John Major want to do something useful re Brexit they should both take the peerages they are entitled to pronto. If the Supreme Court upholds the Crown Prerogative ruling we'll need their votes in the Lords. And the Lords would appreciate a bit of former prime ministerial star dust. I think Gordon is less suited to the Lords but it would add to the sense of drama and occassion if he went with them.
If Tony Blair and John Major want to do something useful re Brexit they should both take the peerages they are entitled to pronto. If the Supreme Court upholds the Crown Prerogative ruling we'll need their votes in the Lords. And the Lords would appreciate a bit of former prime ministerial star dust. I think Gordon is less suited to the Lords but it would add to the sense of drama and occassion if he went with them.
The disrespect this shows for the will of the people is bewildering.
Remainers seem to have come out of the shadows in recent days. Not about delaying is it now, it is about overturning.
If this shows up elements of the metropolitan elite for what they really are, all the better. We're leaving, and at this rate the bunch of anti democrats left in the wake will be devastated electorally for a generation or two.
On topic, I think we're in the post UKIP era, which benefits the Conservatives. Labour doing badly and Lib Dems treading water.
I don't think Theresa May has anything to fear from a new election.
I am not so sure. That was the consensus a few years ago, but now we know that most kipper voters were not Tory inclined even if most kipper activists were pissed off Eurosceptic Tories, along with their leaders.
If UKIP breaks up as a party the voters may well not follow the lead of the activists to rejoin the Toryright. Many may well return to other opposition parties inc Labour and LDs. Voters are often a bit awkward like that.
Not convinced they will rejoin any of the parties TBH. Suspect they won't vote if the mainstream parties don't address their needs.
Some may well not vote, feeling job done, others what is the point? Others may well find Corbyn and McDonnells left wing protectionist euro-scepticism to their taste, others may see in the LibDems anti-establishment views sometbing attractive.
Even non voters influence elections though, by making it easier for those of us who do vote to win.
If Tony Blair and John Major want to do something useful re Brexit they should both take the peerages they are entitled to pronto. If the Supreme Court upholds the Crown Prerogative ruling we'll need their votes in the Lords. And the Lords would appreciate a bit of former prime ministerial star dust. I think Gordon is less suited to the Lords but it would add to the sense of drama and occassion if he went with them.
On topic, I think we're in the post UKIP era, which benefits the Conservatives. Labour doing badly and Lib Dems treading water.
I don't think Theresa May has anything to fear from a new election.
I am not so sure. That was the consensus a few years ago, but now we know that most kipper voters were not Tory inclined even if most kipper activists were pissed off Eurosceptic Tories, along with their leaders.
If UKIP breaks up as a party the voters may well not follow the lead of the activists to rejoin the Toryright. Many may well return to other opposition parties inc Labour and LDs. Voters are often a bit awkward like that.
Yup they'll clearly surge to the LDs and follow Farron back into the Euro and the EU - I thought it was Black friday not April Fool!
Quite.
What is more likely is a return of many UKIP voters to the Tories at exactly the same time as a three way split in the left - WWC sitting on their hands, centrists to LDs and the rest to a rump Socialist grouping.
If Tony Blair and John Major want to do something useful re Brexit they should both take the peerages they are entitled to pronto. If the Supreme Court upholds the Crown Prerogative ruling we'll need their votes in the Lords. And the Lords would appreciate a bit of former prime ministerial star dust. I think Gordon is less suited to the Lords but it would add to the sense of drama and occassion if he went with them.
If Tony Blair and John Major want to do something useful re Brexit they should both take the peerages they are entitled to pronto. If the Supreme Court upholds the Crown Prerogative ruling we'll need their votes in the Lords. And the Lords would appreciate a bit of former prime ministerial star dust. I think Gordon is less suited to the Lords but it would add to the sense of drama and occassion if he went with them.
The disrespect this shows for the will of the people is bewildering.
Remainers seem to have come out of the shadows in recent days. Not about delaying is it now, it is about overturning.
If this shows up elements of the metropolitan elite for what they really are, all the better. We're leaving, and at this rate the bunch of anti democrats left in the wake will be devastated electorally for a generation or two.
Spain would reject any attempt by Nicola Sturgeon for Scotland to stay in the EU single market if the rest of the UK comes out, one of the country’s most powerful MEPs warned last night.
Esteban Gonzalez Pons, who leads the Spanish delegation of MEPs in the European Parliament’s largest political grouping, told the Telegraph that Ms Sturgeon’s proposals for a special Scottish deal are “impossible.”
I think the dumb fools are the ones arguing that 'the single market is critical to Scottish jobs' then arguing that the 'single market' that accounts for 17% of Scotland's trade is somehow more important than the one that accounts for 64% of Scotland's trade.....fortunately the Scottish people are not quite as gullible as the zoomers.....
But as any fule kno, rUK will retain tariff-free access to the single market and therefore no barriers to trade with an independent Scotland in the EU.
"Anyone can rat.....it takes though a certain ingenuity to re-rat." Winston Churchill in 1923 on rejoining the Conservative Party having defected to the Liberals
"Anyone can rat.....it takes though a certain ingenuity to re-rat." Winston Churchill in 1923 on rejoining the Conservative Party having defected to the Liberals
It's possible to make a credible case for it, but there is very little public or political appetite for it, and until the former there won't be the latter, and by then we're already out.
There's plenty of opportunities for "events, dear boy". All we've seen so far if the drop in the pound - and the benefits from that, the problems lag a bit.
The issue is the problems woukd need to be quite severe quite soon in order to sway enough people to convince parliamentarians to truly risk, in numbers, going for a second referendum prior to Brexit occuring. You're right about events, but the timeframe for one to occur is not as long as it seems.
"Anyone can rat.....it takes though a certain ingenuity to re-rat." Winston Churchill in 1923 on rejoining the Conservative Party having defected to the Liberals
If Tony Blair and John Major want to do something useful re Brexit they should both take the peerages they are entitled to pronto. If the Supreme Court upholds the Crown Prerogative ruling we'll need their votes in the Lords. And the Lords would appreciate a bit of former prime ministerial star dust. I think Gordon is less suited to the Lords but it would add to the sense of drama and occassion if he went with them.
If Tony Blair and John Major want to do something useful re Brexit they should both take the peerages they are entitled to pronto. If the Supreme Court upholds the Crown Prerogative ruling we'll need their votes in the Lords. And the Lords would appreciate a bit of former prime ministerial star dust. I think Gordon is less suited to the Lords but it would add to the sense of drama and occassion if he went with them.
The disrespect this shows for the will of the people is bewildering.
Remainers seem to have come out of the shadows in recent days. Not about delaying is it now, it is about overturning.
If this shows up elements of the metropolitan elite for what they really are, all the better. We're leaving, and at this rate the bunch of anti democrats left in the wake will be devastated electorally for a generation or two.
Like second homeowners in Wales, leavers have come home to a stinking mackerel pushed through the letterbox and don't know what to do with it.
Terraforming is an interesting one. Transporting oxygen or air is a non starter, and creating the molton core nessecary to hold an atmosphere are both a bit challenging.
The only viable way to produce an atmosphere on another planet is to extract it from minerals on Mars, hence the importance of testing soil samples suitable for producing oxygen and water. Probably this would need to be via genetically modified bacteria.
"... and creating the molton core nessecary to hold an atmosphere "
The main mechanism by which atmosphere is lost (mainly lighter gasses first) is via the solar wind stripping off the gasses. That does not happen on Earth as much because our molten core creates a magnetic field (magnetosphere) that diverts most of the solar wind, and losses tend to be by other mechanisms that are partly offset by infall (think shooting stars).
So the idea is that any gasses would be lost. However they are lost over a geological timescale; whereas the terraforming will be much faster. Therefore we lose atmosphere much slower than we can replace it.
Also, terraforming isn't just about making an Earth-simulacrum; Mars' much lower gravity will not allow that anyway. What may be easier is terraforming to make it *easier* to live on the planet. Increasing atmospheric pressure would be a good start.
As an aside, even Mercury has a thin, tenuous atmosphere despite its lack of atmosphere and closeness to the Sun.
As a further aside, Venus shows that you do not need a molten core to have an atmosphere. Venus does not have a molten core, and it's atmosphere is rather thick. What it does have is an induced magnetosphere that prevents heavier gasses from being stripped off. Therefore the light gasses have gone, leaving a thick layer of dense carbon dioxide.
The really interesting question is why Venus does not have a molten core; the answer may be that Mars was originally part of Venus ...
Titan may be a better spot for terraforming. It seems to hold an atmosphere well, has reasonable gravity and enough hydrocarbons to make the trip worthwhile. Bit chilly though...
Possibly, but not using current space tech, It takes too much energy to get there.
Some might find the following interesting (or not): there are various charts that show the delta-v (change in velocity) required to get around the solar system:
If Tony Blair and John Major want to do something useful re Brexit they should both take the peerages they are entitled to pronto. If the Supreme Court upholds the Crown Prerogative ruling we'll need their votes in the Lords. And the Lords would appreciate a bit of former prime ministerial star dust. I think Gordon is less suited to the Lords but it would add to the sense of drama and occassion if he went with them.
If Tony Blair and John Major want to do something useful re Brexit they should both take the peerages they are entitled to pronto. If the Supreme Court upholds the Crown Prerogative ruling we'll need their votes in the Lords. And the Lords would appreciate a bit of former prime ministerial star dust. I think Gordon is less suited to the Lords but it would add to the sense of drama and occassion if he went with them.
The disrespect this shows for the will of the people is bewildering.
Remainers seem to have come out of the shadows in recent days. Not about delaying is it now, it is about overturning.
If this shows up elements of the metropolitan elite for what they really are, all the better. We're leaving, and at this rate the bunch of anti democrats left in the wake will be devastated electorally for a generation or two.
Like second homeowners in Wales, leavers have come home to a stinking mackerel pushed through the letterbox and don't know what to do with it.
I don't really understand this 'your mess sort it out' mentality amongst Remoaners.
For a start, not a mess. Secondly, get out of our way then. We're trying to follow the will of the people. Frustrating that and then sneering about it doesn't really suggest a high degree of either logical thought or acceptance of the democratic process.
If Tony Blair and John Major want to do something useful re Brexit they should both take the peerages they are entitled to pronto. If the Supreme Court upholds the Crown Prerogative ruling we'll need their votes in the Lords. And the Lords would appreciate a bit of former prime ministerial star dust. I think Gordon is less suited to the Lords but it would add to the sense of drama and occassion if he went with them.
And you wonder why many think you're a traitor.
Even hardcore remoAners are not traitors, even if they suggested just ignoring the referendum rather than trying to get a rerun. That's legal, if politically inadvisable and socially provocative. And the whole success of the Brexit vote is the idea if you lose once you're allowed to keep trying anyway, be it soon after or decades after. Pushing for a rerun or an ignoring of the referendum is many things and I fail to see much appetite or true justification for it, but it isn't traitorous, even if one thinks it is insulting and idiotic.
If Tony Blair and John Major want to do something useful re Brexit they should both take the peerages they are entitled to pronto. If the Supreme Court upholds the Crown Prerogative ruling we'll need their votes in the Lords. And the Lords would appreciate a bit of former prime ministerial star dust. I think Gordon is less suited to the Lords but it would add to the sense of drama and occassion if he went with them.
If Tony Blair and John Major want to do something useful re Brexit they should both take the peerages they are entitled to pronto. If the Supreme Court upholds the Crown Prerogative ruling we'll need their votes in the Lords. And the Lords would appreciate a bit of former prime ministerial star dust. I think Gordon is less suited to the Lords but it would add to the sense of drama and occassion if he went with them.
The disrespect this shows for the will of the people is bewildering.
Remainers seem to have come out of the shadows in recent days. Not about delaying is it now, it is about overturning.
If this shows up elements of the metropolitan elite for what they really are, all the better. We're leaving, and at this rate the bunch of anti democrats left in the wake will be devastated electorally for a generation or two.
I'd have some sympathy with that view if leavers (using 'leavers' in the same catch-all you do above for 'remainers') would not have wanted to upset the result if it had been the other way. Farage's comments being a classic.
If Tony Blair and John Major want to do something useful re Brexit they should both take the peerages they are entitled to pronto. If the Supreme Court upholds the Crown Prerogative ruling we'll need their votes in the Lords. And the Lords would appreciate a bit of former prime ministerial star dust. I think Gordon is less suited to the Lords but it would add to the sense of drama and occassion if he went with them.
If Tony Blair and John Major want to do something useful re Brexit they should both take the peerages they are entitled to pronto. If the Supreme Court upholds the Crown Prerogative ruling we'll need their votes in the Lords. And the Lords would appreciate a bit of former prime ministerial star dust. I think Gordon is less suited to the Lords but it would add to the sense of drama and occassion if he went with them.
The disrespect this shows for the will of the people is bewildering.
Remainers seem to have come out of the shadows in recent days. Not about delaying is it now, it is about overturning.
If this shows up elements of the metropolitan elite for what they really are, all the better. We're leaving, and at this rate the bunch of anti democrats left in the wake will be devastated electorally for a generation or two.
I'd have some sympathy with that view if leavers (using 'leavers' in the same catch-all you do above for 'remainers') would not have wanted to upset the result if it had been the other way. Farage's comments being a classic.
Would they have been 'anti democrats' ?
Yup. They would have been.
There might have been justification for another referendum in a few decades time.
Terraforming is an interesting one. Transporting oxygen or air is a non starter, and creating the molton core nessecary to hold an atmosphere are both a bit challenging.
The only viable way to produce an atmosphere on another planet is to extract it from minerals on Mars, hence the importance of testing soil samples suitable for producing oxygen and water. Probably this would need to be via genetically modified bacteria.
"... and creating the molton core nessecary to hold an atmosphere "
The main mechanism by which atmosphere is lost (mainly lighter gasses first) is via the solar wind stripping off the gasses. That does not happen on Earth as much because our molten core creates a magnetic field (magnetosphere) that diverts most of the solar wind, and losses tend to be by other mechanisms that are partly offset by infall (think shooting stars).
So the idea is that any gasses would be lost. However they are lost over a geological timescale; whereas the terraforming will be much faster. Therefore we lose atmosphere much slower than we can replace it.
Also, terraforming isn't just about making an Earth-simulacrum; Mars' much lower gravity will not allow that anyway. What may be easier is terraforming to make it *easier* to live on the planet. Increasing atmospheric pressure would be a good start.
As an aside, even Mercury has a thin, tenuous atmosphere despite its lack of atmosphere and closeness to the Sun.
As a further aside, Venus shows that you do not need a molten core to have an atmosphere. Venus does not have a molten core, and it's atmosphere is rather thick. What it does have is an induced magnetosphere that prevents heavier gasses from being stripped off. Therefore the light gasses have gone, leaving a thick layer of dense carbon dioxide.
The really interesting question is why Venus does not have a molten core; the answer may be that Mars was originally part of Venus ...
Titan may be a better spot for terraforming. It seems to hold an atmosphere well, has reasonable gravity and enough hydrocarbons to make the trip worthwhile. Bit chilly though...
Possibly, but not using current space tech, It takes too much energy to get there.
Some might find the following interesting (or not): there are various charts that show the delta-v (change in velocity) required to get around the solar system:
If Tony Blair and John Major want to do something useful re Brexit they should both take the peerages they are entitled to pronto. If the Supreme Court upholds the Crown Prerogative ruling we'll need their votes in the Lords. And the Lords would appreciate a bit of former prime ministerial star dust. I think Gordon is less suited to the Lords but it would add to the sense of drama and occassion if he went with them.
If Tony Blair and John Major want to do something useful re Brexit they should both take the peerages they are entitled to pronto. If the Supreme Court upholds the Crown Prerogative ruling we'll need their votes in the Lords. And the Lords would appreciate a bit of former prime ministerial star dust. I think Gordon is less suited to the Lords but it would add to the sense of drama and occassion if he went with them.
The disrespect this shows for the will of the people is bewildering.
Remainers seem to have come out of the shadows in recent days. Not about delaying is it now, it is about overturning.
If this shows up elements of the metropolitan elite for what they really are, all the better. We're leaving, and at this rate the bunch of anti democrats left in the wake will be devastated electorally for a generation or two.
I'd have some sympathy with that view if leavers (using 'leavers' in the same catch-all you do above for 'remainers') would not have wanted to upset the result if it had been the other way. Farage's comments being a classic.
Would they have been 'anti democrats' ?
Yup. They would have been.
There might have been justification for another referendum in a few decades time.
While I appreciate your point, the notion that a government is obliged by a non-binding referendum to press ahead with a course of action regardless of any adverse consequences that may later become apparent seems absurd.
If Tony Blair and John Major want to do something useful re Brexit they should both take the peerages they are entitled to pronto. If the Supreme Court upholds the Crown Prerogative ruling we'll need their votes in the Lords. And the Lords would appreciate a bit of former prime ministerial star dust. I think Gordon is less suited to the Lords but it would add to the sense of drama and occassion if he went with them.
If Tony Blair and John Major want to do something useful re Brexit they should both take the peerages they are entitled to pronto. If the Supreme Court upholds the Crown Prerogative ruling we'll need their votes in the Lords. And the Lords would appreciate a bit of former prime ministerial star dust. I think Gordon is less suited to the Lords but it would add to the sense of drama and occassion if he went with them.
The disrespect this shows for the will of the people is bewildering.
Remainers seem to have come out of the shadows in recent days. Not about delaying is it now, it is about overturning.
If this shows up elements of the metropolitan elite for what they really are, all the better. We're leaving, and at this rate the bunch of anti democrats left in the wake will be devastated electorally for a generation or two.
I'd have some sympathy with that view if leavers (using 'leavers' in the same catch-all you do above for 'remainers') would not have wanted to upset the result if it had been the other way. Farage's comments being a classic.
Would they have been 'anti democrats' ?
Yup. They would have been.
There might have been justification for another referendum in a few decades time.
While I appreciate your point, the notion that a government is obliged by a non-binding referendum to press ahead with a course of action regardless of any adverse consequences that may later become apparent seems absurd.
It is not obliged, but there is a heck of a lot of authority to do so. Also, circumstances always change, and the adverse consequences should be both obvious and, well, very adverse.
We're nowhere near that yet, and I don't think (and hope!) we will be.
Comments
PP are loudly crying about making a huge loss, but I think William hill lost more. From what I can tell, PP took ~£5m and lost £500k after taking into account their early payout. WH had similar takings, but a larger loss. SPIN made somewhere between six and seven figures. respect to @Jungleland
Silence from ladbrokes. Which - I assume - means they made a packet. If so, well done @shadsy !
The maximum number of concurrent ideas the majority of people can simultaneously cope with seems to be 5 plus or minus two. The pattern is seen in all walks of life. In the military, for example, the command span (i.e. the number of subordinates a commander is directly in charge of) seldom exceeds five and three is the norm.
Once politicians and so forth start talking about billions the vast majority don't have a clue of the scale of the amount being discussed. We have seen it on here this evening 58.7 billion is a very big number. £58.7 billion is an awful lot of money, but over five years in an economy that turns over £2trillion pounds a year and with public spending running at £700bn a year, it is a fecking rounding error.
I do love that 0.7 at the end too. As if anyone in The Treasury or the OBR is capable of forecasting to that degree of accuracy fives years out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway_(novel)
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/801930471122882562
Endless hand-wringing and wailing from REAINERS again...
Terraforming is an interesting one. Transporting oxygen or air is a non starter, and creating the molton core nessecary to hold an atmosphere are both a bit challenging.
The only viable way to produce an atmosphere on another planet is to extract it from minerals on Mars, hence the importance of testing soil samples suitable for producing oxygen and water. Probably this would need to be via genetically modified bacteria.
More votes for Marine.
https://twitter.com/Russia/status/801906635660820480
Apart from that, I agree with you. Mind, I wish she would hurry up and get on with it.
Was the reporting ongoing during today's Fillon-Juppé debate?
No - it doesn't work for me.
Changes to the atmosphere would take thousands of years to dissipate, incidentally. Without a magnetosphere etc, *eventually* it would return to status quo... but rather slowly.
Con 1267 (51.1%; +5.7)
Lab 1156 (46.6%; +6.7)
LD 57 (2.3%; -3.7)
* SPIN made "between six and seven figures"
* PP took ~£5m and lost £500k after taking into account their early payout.
* WH had similar takings, but a larger loss.is
* Ladbrokes presumably made a profit
* bet365 declared losses of around £4m.
* Spreadex might have made a loss.
I already have a source for SPIN's profit. Do we have sources for the others?
That said, it's very brave of M&S, given its recent dire trading record, to totally ignore it, given that the concept has been embraced however reluctantly by the likes of Selfridges, House of Fraser, John Lewis, Next (sort of), etc, etc.
God help the big cheeses at M&S if they've called this wrong ..... this is their last big chance to shift potentially dodgy stock this side of Christmas. Heads could roll!
This is how you deal with a referendum loss.
Be a bit like Cameron losing the Referendum, then signing up for the Euro instead of resigning!
Winston Churchill in 1923 on rejoining the Conservative Party having defected to the Liberals
Ukip's only MP Douglas Carswell has hinted that he may rejoin the Conservative party after defecting in 2014
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/25/ukips-mp-douglas-carswell-hints-could-return-conservatives/
Carswell = Churchill
The main mechanism by which atmosphere is lost (mainly lighter gasses first) is via the solar wind stripping off the gasses. That does not happen on Earth as much because our molten core creates a magnetic field (magnetosphere) that diverts most of the solar wind, and losses tend to be by other mechanisms that are partly offset by infall (think shooting stars).
So the idea is that any gasses would be lost. However they are lost over a geological timescale; whereas the terraforming will be much faster. Therefore we lose atmosphere much slower than we can replace it.
Also, terraforming isn't just about making an Earth-simulacrum; Mars' much lower gravity will not allow that anyway. What may be easier is terraforming to make it *easier* to live on the planet. Increasing atmospheric pressure would be a good start.
As an aside, even Mercury has a thin, tenuous atmosphere despite its lack of atmosphere and closeness to the Sun.
As a further aside, Venus shows that you do not need a molten core to have an atmosphere. Venus does not have a molten core, and it's atmosphere is rather thick. What it does have is an induced magnetosphere that prevents heavier gasses from being stripped off. Therefore the light gasses have gone, leaving a thick layer of dense carbon dioxide.
The really interesting question is why Venus does not have a molten core; the answer may be that Mars was originally part of Venus ...
I think UKIP have been and gone.
Some proposals have asteroids and comets being captured and fired at Mars; as they burn up in Mars' atmosphere they will add gasses to the atmosphere, as well as warming it.
Incidentally, one of NASA's aims (which might change under Trump) is to capture part of an asteroid and bring it back towards the Moon so it can be studied.
https://www.nasa.gov/content/what-is-nasa-s-asteroid-redirect-mission/
Diverting asteroids and comets into Mars would be much cheaper and easier than other methods; if you plan it right you don't need much delta-V. It would also make a rather good weapons system ...
Seriously though, Sovereignty descends from the people. In my view local government as it is currently set up is barely functional mess, but there is clearly a need for local democratic structures for local service delivery
* which would exclude my lot, FWIW
Indeed there was a very interesting piece on Channel 4 news last night about how Macedonia became the centre of the fake news industry. Hundreds of teenage computer students were running fake news stories "Pope endorses Trump" "Hillary Clinton arrested for paedophilia" etc etc. The sort of alt.right stuff we got spammed with over the summer here.
They made their money from Pay Per Click advertising to gullible Trumpsters. As PT Barnum famously said " No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public"
A good piece on the Philipino President openly inciting lynch law and death squads to control drug traffickers too.
I don't think Theresa May has anything to fear from a new election.
Cheers for this, Mr. Hayfield.
F1: P1 gets underway in about an hour, I think.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/25/brexit-sir-john-major-says-perfectly-credible-case-for-second-referendum?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
Some might find the following interesting (or not): there are various charts that show the delta-v (change in velocity) required to get around the solar system:
http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/images/mission/deadfrog42.png
https://i.imgur.com/AAGJvD1.png
If UKIP breaks up as a party the voters may well not follow the lead of the activists to rejoin the Toryright. Many may well return to other opposition parties inc Labour and LDs. Voters are often a bit awkward like that.
Remainers seem to have come out of the shadows in recent days. Not about delaying is it now, it is about overturning.
If this shows up elements of the metropolitan elite for what they really are, all the better. We're leaving, and at this rate the bunch of anti democrats left in the wake will be devastated electorally for a generation or two.
Even non voters influence elections though, by making it easier for those of us who do vote to win.
What is more likely is a return of many UKIP voters to the Tories at exactly the same time as a three way split in the left - WWC sitting on their hands, centrists to LDs and the rest to a rump Socialist grouping.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Transport_Network
For a start, not a mess. Secondly, get out of our way then. We're trying to follow the will of the people. Frustrating that and then sneering about it doesn't really suggest a high degree of either logical thought or acceptance of the democratic process.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingdom-Asunder-Bloody-Crown-Trilogy-ebook/dp/B01N8UF799/
Would they have been 'anti democrats' ?
There might have been justification for another referendum in a few decades time.
We're nowhere near that yet, and I don't think (and hope!) we will be.