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  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    I don't see this makes any sense. Had we voted to Remain we would have ended up forced "to sign up to things like the Euro, The EU Army, and the Schengen agreement, possibly all of them" with the referendum result taken as democratic backing for the Project.

    Nope.

    The referendum would have seen the backing of the "deal" negotiated by Cameron.

    This idea that we were being ineluctably drawn into a nefarious pit of domination is nonsense.

    We were fence-sitting. Uncomfortably. But we'd been doing it successfully for many many years.

    I don't see this makes any sense. Had we voted to Remain we would have ended up forced "to sign up to things like the Euro, The EU Army, and the Schengen agreement, possibly all of them" with the referendum result taken as democratic backing for the Project.

    No. The referendum was clear on remain's side: it was for Cameron's renegotiation, which included none of the above.

    There might have been gradual creep towards them over the years (and that was my biggest fear about remain), but there was no mandate from a remain win for them, especially with such a close vote as we got.

    The problem we are faced with is that leave's meaning was unclear and inconsistent. As was pointed out at the time.
    Both of you, I think, are making the mistake of thinking I'm referring to how it would have been seen in Britain. I'm not, I'm referring to how it would have been seen in Brussels. Had we voted to Remain, any British resistance to further integration would have been met with "you have to, your people voted to stay in".
    It's hard to see into the minds of Eurocrats, but I doubt that a narrow remain vote would have emboldened them. At the very least they'd be aware that they had to deliver Cameron's reforms (not necessarily easy) otherwise there'd be another referendum as the terms would have changed.
    Oh, I see the problem. You think Cameron's "renegotiation" changed something.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872

    SeanT said:

    I am reaching the reluctant and mournful conclusion that Andrea Leadsom would have been BETTER than Theresa May.

    And Boris would have been better still. He might have exploded the country but at least he'd be amusing.

    I've always liked Andrea Leadsom.
    Andrea Leadsom is a poisonous, misandric witch. The sooner she leaves parliament the better.
    What a nasty post.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,250
    The mood on twitters seems to be that the judges will rule against the government in the Article 50 case because to rescind EU membership would deprive UK citizens of various rights - hence not a simple international treaty.

    Decision is due mid November (but would then be appealed, whatever happens).

    If true, this will add to perception of a beleaguered government.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,250
    619 said:
    Someone should be archiving these for posterity.
  • IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    The fastest decision would be to give the go ahead to Heathrow and Gatwick and get on with it and declare that Britain is open for Business. The right decision 5 years ago was a "Boris Island".

    Why would a hub airport in the middle of nowhere be a good idea?
    Space is an advantage when it comes to airports.

    It should be noted that Hong Kong International Airport has been rather a success, and that was similarly 'in the middle of nowhere'. And a rather nice bridge leads to it as well.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsing_Ma_Bridge
    But if you have been to Hong Kong you'll know that almost everyone lives in tower blocks within a few square miles of the central city. So it is easy to use the same high speed transit system for passengers to get the workforce back and forth from the airport. In London, the airport workers live in Hounslow, Hillingdon, Ealing and Slough. There is no way they can work in a Thames Estuary airport without moving house. En masse. To somewhere where there isn't sufficient housing or infrastructure in the first place, even if they are willing to go there.
    I've made that very point on here in the past, including the other day. Staffing is a big problem for BI. But not an insurmountable one, especially given the problems with LH3 + more.
    Given it will take about a decade at least to build Boris Island would it not be possible to build new homes in areas around Boris Island that staff can move to? Kills two birds with one stone, a new fit for purpose 21st century high capacity airport ... and new homes which the country and London/South East specifically are desperately in need of.
    Yes, Yes, Yes.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    SeanT said:

    MaxPB said:

    The Heathrow decision is fucking terrible.

    It doesn't augur well for Brexit. May is simultaneously dithery and a bit clueless. And she has a terrible tin ear. She doesn't understand how things sound to others. She gives off the wrong signals, often unwittingly. Pff.
    She needs a Willie.

    I think her current method of governing, with the numbers she has, will prove to be politically unsustainable.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,725

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    The fastest decision would be to give the go ahead to Heathrow and Gatwick and get on with it and declare that Britain is open for Business. The right decision 5 years ago was a "Boris Island".

    Why would a hub airport in the middle of nowhere be a good idea?
    Space is an advantage when it comes to airports.

    It should be noted that Hong Kong International Airport has been rather a success, and that was similarly 'in the middle of nowhere'. And a rather nice bridge leads to it as well.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsing_Ma_Bridge
    But if you have been to Hong Kong you'll know that almost everyone lives in tower blocks within a few square miles of the central city. So it is easy to use the same high speed transit system for passengers to get the workforce back and forth from the airport. In London, the airport workers live in Hounslow, Hillingdon, Ealing and Slough. There is no way they can work in a Thames Estuary airport without moving house. En masse. To somewhere where there isn't sufficient housing or infrastructure in the first place, even if they are willing to go there.
    I've made that very point on here in the past, including the other day. Staffing is a big problem for BI. But not an insurmountable one, especially given the problems with LH3 + more.
    Given it will take about a decade at least to build Boris Island would it not be possible to build new homes in areas around Boris Island that staff can move to? Kills two birds with one stone, a new fit for purpose 21st century high capacity airport ... and new homes which the country and London/South East specifically are desperately in need of.
    Yes, Yes, Yes.
    No
  • The mood on twitters .

    The mood on twitter in May 2015 was that Ed would be Prime Minister!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872

    The mood on twitters seems to be that the judges will rule against the government in the Article 50 case because to rescind EU membership would deprive UK citizens of various rights - hence not a simple international treaty.

    Decision is due mid November (but would then be appealed, whatever happens).

    If true, this will add to perception of a beleaguered government.

    Didn't know Twitter were legal experts.

    Is this the same Twitter that thought Miliband had GE2015 sewn up?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,725
    edited October 2016

    SeanT said:

    I am reaching the reluctant and mournful conclusion that Andrea Leadsom would have been BETTER than Theresa May.

    And Boris would have been better still. He might have exploded the country but at least he'd be amusing.

    I've always liked Andrea Leadsom.
    Andrea Leadsom is a poisonous, misandric witch. The sooner she leaves parliament the better.
    What a nasty post.
    Indeed. Besides, to be a witch you need to know stuff.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    The mood on twitters seems to be that the judges will rule against the government in the Article 50 case because to rescind EU membership would deprive UK citizens of various rights - hence not a simple international treaty.

    Decision is due mid November (but would then be appealed, whatever happens).

    If true, this will add to perception of a beleaguered government.

    Is that informed opinion? Or just the usual twitter crap?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,661
    Expanding Heathrow, Gatwick and every other airport makes sense in the short term. Building something like Boris Island makes sense in the medium term, and science-fictiony-type stuff is the territory of the longer term.

    The UK should be happy to do all three.

    Some of the short term pain may not have been strictly necessary if we hadn't sat on our hands somewhat in the past.

    The mountain doesn't go to Mohammed. He has to tip up in London.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    St Pancras church itself, as SeanT reminds us occasionally, might be one of the oldest churches in the country. Though I still prefer the ancient timber church at Greensted and the Roman barn-church of St Peter-in-the-Wall in Essex.

    Mr T should be looking closer to home

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Senara's_Church,_Zennor
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    SeanT said:

    Indigo said:

    St Pancras church itself, as SeanT reminds us occasionally, might be one of the oldest churches in the country. Though I still prefer the ancient timber church at Greensted and the Roman barn-church of St Peter-in-the-Wall in Essex.

    Mr T should be looking closer to home

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Senara's_Church,_Zennor
    I know that church very well, and it plays an important role in S K Tremayne's second thriller, THE FIRE CHILD
    The first I've heard of it, is it any good? :D
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    The mood on twitters .

    The mood on twitter in May 2015 was that Ed would be Prime Minister!
    .. and that's why you should never listen to twitter...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    MaxPB said:

    The Heathrow decision is fucking terrible.

    It doesn't augur well for Brexit. May is simultaneously dithery and a bit clueless. And she has a terrible tin ear. She doesn't understand how things sound to others. She gives off the wrong signals, often unwittingly. Pff.
    She needs a Willie.

    I think her current method of governing, with the numbers she has, will prove to be politically unsustainable.
    She does look quite isolated. She's going to fuck up Brexit and be hated by all sides, if she's not careful.

    On the other hand, out there in the boonies she is popular. And she's facing Corbyn.
    May could end up making Cameron actually look good.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited October 2016
    Swing States - Washington Post/Survey Monkey - H2H - Samples 800 plus - 10-16 Oct

    VA - Clinton 54 .. Trump 41
    TX - Clinton 46 .. Trump 48
    NH - Clinton 50 .. Trump 43
    PA - Clinton 51 .. Trump 42
    FL - Clinton 47 .. Trump 47
    CO - Clinton 50 .. Trump 41
    AZ - Clinton 46 .. Trump 47
    NV - Clinton 47 .. Trump 46
    MI - Clinton 51 .. Trump 42
    OH - Clinton 46 .. Trump 48
    NC - Clinton 51 .. Trump 43
    IA - Clinton 44 .. Trump 49
    GA - Clinton 48 - Trump 45

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clinton-holds-clear-advantage-in-new-battleground-polls/2016/10/18/2885e3a0-94a6-11e6-bc79-af1cd3d2984b_story.html
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Airport Expansion rates at 0% in the various issue indices of public interest run by pollsters.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I read very little into some of today's teasing of the government barristers by the panel of judges. The judges put almost exactly the reverse arguments to Lord Pannick QC on Thursday.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    The mood on twitters .

    The mood on twitter in May 2015 was that Ed would be Prime Minister!
    That's why I never pay attention to twitter.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    FF43 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    TSE has well and truly lost his marbles. How many people in the Republic of Ireland wish to rejoin the UK, or Mongolia China?

    Was Mongolia ever part of China?

    Newfoundland voluntarily opted back in to direct imperial control in the 1930s having previously had 'responsible government'.
    Inner Mongolia is still part of China. Outer Mongolia, which was de facto independent although nominally still part of China, held a fake referendum in the 1940's as part of a deal between the Nationalist government and the Soviet Union. China would allow the Soviet Union to effectively annexe Mongolia in exchange for the Soviet Union covertly supporting the Nationlists in its civil war with the Communists.
    That said, the Republic of China (i.e. Taiwan) still officially claims all of Mongolia, including the Tuva region that's now part of Russia, as its territory.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,705
    619 said:
    The perspex screen doesn't show up in the photo.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,160
    JackW said:

    Swing States - Washington Post/Survey Monkey - H2H - Samples 800 plus - 10-16 Oct

    VA - Clinton 54 .. Trump 41
    TX - Clinton 46 .. Trump 48
    NH - Clinton 50 .. Trump 43
    PA - Clinton 51 .. Trump 42
    FL - Clinton 47 .. Trump 47
    CO - Clinton 50 .. Trump 41
    AZ - Clinton 46 .. Trump 47
    NV - Clinton 47 .. Trump 46
    MI - Clinton 51 .. Trump 42
    OH - Clinton 46 .. Trump 48
    NC - Clinton 51 .. Trump 43
    IA - Clinton 44 .. Trump 49
    GA - Clinton 48 - Trump 45

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clinton-holds-clear-advantage-in-new-battleground-polls/2016/10/18/2885e3a0-94a6-11e6-bc79-af1cd3d2984b_story.html

    Wow. TX 46-48. Go girl!
  • rpjs said:

    FF43 said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    TSE has well and truly lost his marbles. How many people in the Republic of Ireland wish to rejoin the UK, or Mongolia China?

    Was Mongolia ever part of China?

    Newfoundland voluntarily opted back in to direct imperial control in the 1930s having previously had 'responsible government'.
    Inner Mongolia is still part of China. Outer Mongolia, which was de facto independent although nominally still part of China, held a fake referendum in the 1940's as part of a deal between the Nationalist government and the Soviet Union. China would allow the Soviet Union to effectively annexe Mongolia in exchange for the Soviet Union covertly supporting the Nationlists in its civil war with the Communists.
    That said, the Republic of China (i.e. Taiwan) still officially claims all of Mongolia, including the Tuva region that's now part of Russia, as its territory.
    As well as bits of India, Burma, and Tajikistan.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan#/media/File:ROC_Administrative_and_Claims.svg
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,139
    SeanT said:

    Indigo said:

    St Pancras church itself, as SeanT reminds us occasionally, might be one of the oldest churches in the country. Though I still prefer the ancient timber church at Greensted and the Roman barn-church of St Peter-in-the-Wall in Essex.

    Mr T should be looking closer to home

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Senara's_Church,_Zennor
    I know that church very well, and it plays an important role in S K Tremayne's second thriller, THE FIRE CHILD
    When walking the inland paths from Zennor to St Ives 15 or so years ago, I came across a wall between fields. I crossed it an overgrown area, and realised I was in a dark, dank overgrown graveyard with ivy-strewn ruined church.

    Very atmospheric and eerie. I've always wanted to go back.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Wisconsin - St. Norbert - Sample 664 - 13-16 Oct

    Clinton 47 .. Trump 39

    http://www.snc.edu/sri/docs/2016/201610_Fall_WI_Survey_President_Release.pdf
  • SeanT said:

    MaxPB said:

    The Heathrow decision is fucking terrible.

    It doesn't augur well for Brexit. May is simultaneously dithery and a bit clueless. And she has a terrible tin ear. She doesn't understand how things sound to others. She gives off the wrong signals, often unwittingly. Pff.
    She needs a Willie.

    I think her current method of governing, with the numbers she has, will prove to be politically unsustainable.

    Like Blair, May mistakes the Daily Mail, and what plays well with Paul Dacre, for middle England. The reality is that things are a lot more complex than a Daily Mail headline and most voters realise this.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,582
    edited October 2016
    Out of interest, how many Tory MPs have seats in areas that voted Remain? If the LDs are doing well in Witney by making Brexit the central issue, that's potentially a significant warning sign for May should she be thinking about seeking a hard Brexit mandate - especially if UKIP's implosion means that Labour is safe in its heartlands.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,160
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    MaxPB said:

    The Heathrow decision is fucking terrible.

    It doesn't augur well for Brexit. May is simultaneously dithery and a bit clueless. And she has a terrible tin ear. She doesn't understand how things sound to others. She gives off the wrong signals, often unwittingly. Pff.
    She needs a Willie.

    I think her current method of governing, with the numbers she has, will prove to be politically unsustainable.
    She does look quite isolated. She's going to fuck up Brexit and be hated by all sides, if she's not careful.

    On the other hand, out there in the boonies she is popular. And she's facing Corbyn.
    For how long? Once Len is re-elected to UNITE, the men in grey boiler suits can move in.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited October 2016
    There are load of recently arrived "kids", who I am sure would be very grateful to live in a multi-million pound home....Come on celebs, don't be a racist Little Englander and welcome them in...
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Oregon - DHN Research - Sample 600 - 6-13 Oct

    Clinton 43 .. Trump 36

    http://www.opb.org/news/series/election-2016/hillary-clinton-kate-brown-lead-in-new-opb-poll/
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,139
    edited October 2016

    SeanT said:

    I am reaching the reluctant and mournful conclusion that Andrea Leadsom would have been BETTER than Theresa May.

    And Boris would have been better still. He might have exploded the country but at least he'd be amusing.

    I've always liked Andrea Leadsom.
    Andrea Leadsom is a poisonous, misandric witch. The sooner she leaves parliament the better.
    What a nasty post.
    No, it's reasonable.

    She said men should not be hired as nannies as they might be paedophiles.

    "As an employer we’re not, let’s face it, most of us don’t employ men as nannies, most of us don’t. Now you can call that sexist, I call that cautious and very sensible when you look at the stats.

    “Your odds are stacked against you if you employ a man. We know paedophiles are attracted to working with children. I’m sorry but they’re the facts.”

    http://www.daynurseries.co.uk/news/article.cfm/id/1577238/andrea-leadsom-suggests-male-childcare-workers-might-be-paedophiles

    Misandric? Yes. Poisonous? Yes I'll admit 'witch' is up to debate, but I'll stick with it; especially as I look after a child.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Barnesian said:

    Theresa May continuing to live up to her emerging reputation as a micromanaging ditherer. Though it's a smart decision if she's going for an early election after all (which she should).

    Making a recommendation with a final decision next year isn't dithering. Its a logical process. You dont let the contract the day you announce the preferred bidder.Its just due process.

    All sorts of background preparatory work will go on over the next year so no time will be lost
    Except if it isn't a final decision, it means she could change her mind so any preparatory work will be lost.
    It IS a decision, as I see it. The only way it could likely be changed is if the Commons votes it down, which is highly improbable.
    It doesn't allow initial investment and detailed planning with any confidence.

    Basically: it'll delay. If the government made a decision on their favoured option, and it passed parliament, business could invest in the preparatory work with some confidence that it will go ahead.

    They cannot at the moment. And there's a heck of a lot of preparatory work to be done: as an example, preparatory work for HS2 on the ground has been going on for two or three years now (e.g. archaeological investigations).
    I agree it's a bollocks way of going about it. I do, however, think LHR3 will now get built. Very very slowly.
    Or they could skip the consultation period and spend the subsequent three or four years replying to judicial reviews, not sure that gets things done any faster.
  • SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    MaxPB said:

    The Heathrow decision is fucking terrible.

    It doesn't augur well for Brexit. May is simultaneously dithery and a bit clueless. And she has a terrible tin ear. She doesn't understand how things sound to others. She gives off the wrong signals, often unwittingly. Pff.
    She needs a Willie.

    I think her current method of governing, with the numbers she has, will prove to be politically unsustainable.
    She does look quite isolated. She's going to fuck up Brexit and be hated by all sides, if she's not careful.

    On the other hand, out there in the boonies she is popular. And she's facing Corbyn.
    For how long? Once Len is re-elected to UNITE, the men in grey boiler suits can move in.

    Yep - once Len gets his job renewed by the 15% he no longer needs Jezza in the way that he does now.

  • Theresa May continuing to live up to her emerging reputation as a micromanaging ditherer. Though it's a smart decision if she's going for an early election after all (which she should).

    Making a recommendation with a final decision next year isn't dithering. Its a logical process. You dont let the contract the day you announce the preferred bidder.Its just due process.

    All sorts of background preparatory work will go on over the next year so no time will be lost
    Wasn't the recommendation made years ago by the Airport Commission though? How many recommendations and consultations do we need before a decision can be made?
    A recommendation was made 45 years ago for a new 4-runway airport! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roskill_Commission. It doesn't mean it happens though.
    The original airport was meant to have the third Runway:

    10 January 1946: The British Cabinet agreed Stage 3 of the airport, which was an extension north of the Bath Road, with a large triangle of three runways, obliterating Sipson and most of Harlington (Harlington church would have survived on a small spur of land with airport near on three sides), and diverting the Bath Road.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Heathrow_Airport?wprov=sfla1
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Wow. TX 46-48. Go girl!

    Most awful polls for Trump, made worse by the slight Trump lean of Survey Monkey that 538 adjust by +1 to Clinton.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @tompeck: Another cake on its way to Heathrow from the Amsterdam Schiphol chief exec. He sends one to say thank you every time the decision is delayed

    @tompeck: (This is true, by the way. He really does do this. They've had, I think, seven large and very fancy cakes now)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471
    Theresa Maybe strikes again.
  • Scott_P said:

    @tompeck: Another cake on its way to Heathrow from the Amsterdam Schiphol chief exec. He sends one to say thank you every time the decision is delayed

    @tompeck: (This is true, by the way. He really does do this. They've had, I think, seven large and very fancy cakes now)

    They should do a Great Schiphol Bake Off!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,139
    Jonathan said:

    Theresa Maybe strikes again.

    LOL!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    Scott_P said:

    @tompeck: Another cake on its way to Heathrow from the Amsterdam Schiphol chief exec. He sends one to say thank you every time the decision is delayed

    @tompeck: (This is true, by the way. He really does do this. They've had, I think, seven large and very fancy cakes now)

    Great trolling.
  • Out of interest, how many Tory MPs have seats in areas that voted Remain? If the LDs are doing well in Witney by making Brexit the central issue, that's potentially a significant warning sign for May should she be thinking about seeking a hard Brexit mandate - especially if UKIP's implosion means that Labour is safe in its heartlands.

    Difficult to gauge as the EURef count was by local authority area for the most part:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum,_2016
  • Jonathan said:

    Theresa Maybe strikes again.

    Maybe Fourth Be With You.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited October 2016
    JackW said:

    Swing States - Washington Post/Survey Monkey - H2H - Samples 800 plus - 10-16 Oct

    VA - Clinton 54 .. Trump 41
    TX - Clinton 46 .. Trump 48
    NH - Clinton 50 .. Trump 43
    PA - Clinton 51 .. Trump 42
    FL - Clinton 47 .. Trump 47
    CO - Clinton 50 .. Trump 41
    AZ - Clinton 46 .. Trump 47
    NV - Clinton 47 .. Trump 46
    MI - Clinton 51 .. Trump 42
    OH - Clinton 46 .. Trump 48
    NC - Clinton 51 .. Trump 43
    IA - Clinton 44 .. Trump 49
    GA - Clinton 48 - Trump 45

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clinton-holds-clear-advantage-in-new-battleground-polls/2016/10/18/2885e3a0-94a6-11e6-bc79-af1cd3d2984b_story.html

    So according to this, Texas, Arizona and Georgia are going to vote to the left of Nevada and Florida.

    50 state polls continue to be junk.

    Unless one believes that Hillary will win all 47 states exept Iowa and Ohio and Florida.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    SeanT said:

    Indigo said:

    St Pancras church itself, as SeanT reminds us occasionally, might be one of the oldest churches in the country. Though I still prefer the ancient timber church at Greensted and the Roman barn-church of St Peter-in-the-Wall in Essex.

    Mr T should be looking closer to home

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Senara's_Church,_Zennor
    I know that church very well, and it plays an important role in S K Tremayne's second thriller, THE FIRE CHILD
    I first visited Zennor about forty years ago when my school took us on a weeks tour of Cornwall, having stopped at the also interesting Minstead Church in the New Forest on the way down. The rest of the week I can assure you was filled with tours down tin mines, sight seeing at Hell's Mouth and Tintagel and the wonderful Minack Theatre before stocking up on clotted cream and tourist tat in Penzance to take home ;)
  • The Boss on C4 News about Trump at the mo'.

    'He's gonna lose, he knows he's gonna lose, but he's such a toxic, non self reflecting narcissist he'll try to drag the whole democratic system down with him.'

    I paraphrase very slightly.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,160
    JackW said:

    Wow. TX 46-48. Go girl!

    Most awful polls for Trump, made worse by the slight Trump lean of Survey Monkey that 538 adjust by +1 to Clinton.
    She's available at BF for TX at 5.3 - down from the 6.4 I bet at. Looking good.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited October 2016

    JackW said:

    Wow. TX 46-48. Go girl!

    Most awful polls for Trump, made worse by the slight Trump lean of Survey Monkey that 538 adjust by +1 to Clinton.
    She's available at BF for TX at 5.3 - down from the 6.4 I bet at. Looking good.
    Why not place a bet on Hillary winning Alabama and Kansas too.

    Trump loses Texas wins Florida is one batch of crazy polling.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,160
    edited October 2016

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    MaxPB said:

    The Heathrow decision is fucking terrible.

    It doesn't augur well for Brexit. May is simultaneously dithery and a bit clueless. And she has a terrible tin ear. She doesn't understand how things sound to others. She gives off the wrong signals, often unwittingly. Pff.
    She needs a Willie.

    I think her current method of governing, with the numbers she has, will prove to be politically unsustainable.
    She does look quite isolated. She's going to fuck up Brexit and be hated by all sides, if she's not careful.

    On the other hand, out there in the boonies she is popular. And she's facing Corbyn.
    For how long? Once Len is re-elected to UNITE, the men in grey boiler suits can move in.

    Yep - once Len gets his job renewed by the 15% he no longer needs Jezza in the way that he does now.

    There are too many Tories assuming that Corbyn will be the opponent at GE 2018/19/20 and therefore it is already over. If it is Corbyn then they are right imho, but another, more competent, lefty leader? Who knows.

    A great reason for May to go to the country in Spring 2017 or 18.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited October 2016

    Out of interest, how many Tory MPs have seats in areas that voted Remain? If the LDs are doing well in Witney by making Brexit the central issue, that's potentially a significant warning sign for May should she be thinking about seeking a hard Brexit mandate - especially if UKIP's implosion means that Labour is safe in its heartlands.

    Scots had a referedum in Sept 2014 - eight months later the pro-Independence troops all fell in behind a single commander - while the Unionist/Remain group were still totally divided along old tribal lines.

    It's difficult to see anything different happening on a UK wide basis.

    The choice is Brexit or Corbyn for the foreseeable.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,160
    Speedy said:

    JackW said:

    Wow. TX 46-48. Go girl!

    Most awful polls for Trump, made worse by the slight Trump lean of Survey Monkey that 538 adjust by +1 to Clinton.
    She's available at BF for TX at 5.3 - down from the 6.4 I bet at. Looking good.
    Why not place a bet on Hillary winning Alabama and Kansas too.

    Trump loses Texas wins Florida is one batch of crazy polling.
    True. But it cheered me up this evening. I only have a few quid on TX and AK going Dem. Just a little bit of something to add some fun on the night. My main bet is Clinton for POTUS.
  • Very careless of Mrs May to give the impression of dithering when in reality she's doing the opposite.

    The job of being PM is indeed much harder than Cameron made it seem.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Interesting take on the Ched Evans case from Allison Pearson, not sure she is going to make many friends in the sisterhood, but its a thought provoking counterpoint to all the virtue-signalling.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/the-filter/why-the-fallout-from-the-ched-evans-verdict-puts-all-of-our-sons/
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Very careless of Mrs May to give the impression of dithering when in reality she's doing the opposite.

    The job of being PM is indeed much harder than Cameron made it seem.

    Great post
  • Indigo said:

    Interesting take on the Ched Evans case from Allison Pearson, not sure she is going to make many friends in the sisterhood, but its a thought provoking counterpoint to all the virtue-signalling.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/the-filter/why-the-fallout-from-the-ched-evans-verdict-puts-all-of-our-sons/

    It provoked the thought in me that that's exactly the sort of bollocks I'd expect her to write on this subject.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,119
    edited October 2016

    SeanT said:

    I am reaching the reluctant and mournful conclusion that Andrea Leadsom would have been BETTER than Theresa May.

    And Boris would have been better still. He might have exploded the country but at least he'd be amusing.

    I've always liked Andrea Leadsom.
    Andrea Leadsom is a poisonous, misandric witch. The sooner she leaves parliament the better.
    What on eatth has Mrs L done to so upset you?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471

    Very careless of Mrs May to give the impression of dithering when in reality she's doing the opposite.

    The job of being PM is indeed much harder than Cameron made it seem.

    Cameron made it look easy right up to the moment he utterly destroyed himself in the biggest unforced error since Suez.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Scott_P said:

    @tompeck: Another cake on its way to Heathrow from the Amsterdam Schiphol chief exec. He sends one to say thank you every time the decision is delayed

    @tompeck: (This is true, by the way. He really does do this. They've had, I think, seven large and very fancy cakes now)

    Theresa Maybe - the only PM in British history who favoured not having her cake nor eating it
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,119

    Very careless of Mrs May to give the impression of dithering when in reality she's doing the opposite.

    The job of being PM is indeed much harder than Cameron made it seem.

    Yes, the same David Cameron who never made a decision on Heathrow in the six years he was in government....
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,068

    Out of interest, how many Tory MPs have seats in areas that voted Remain? If the LDs are doing well in Witney by making Brexit the central issue, that's potentially a significant warning sign for May should she be thinking about seeking a hard Brexit mandate - especially if UKIP's implosion means that Labour is safe in its heartlands.

    About 55, I'd say. But the main game remains Con vs Lab. The number of Tories who are really angry about Brexit is quite limited, as far as I can tell.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Speedy said:

    So according to this, Texas, Arizona and Georgia are going to vote to the left of Nevada and Florida.

    50 state polls continue to be junk.

    Unless one believes that Hillary will win all 47 states exept Iowa and Ohio and Florida.

    You have a tendency to over-react to individual polls instead of noting multi pollster trend lines that clearly show Trump performing better in Ohio, Iowa and also Nevada in some polls whilst other trend lines show Clinton performing well in other swing states.

    TX and GA raise an eyebrow but we see outliers from time to time.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,119
    Jonathan said:

    Very careless of Mrs May to give the impression of dithering when in reality she's doing the opposite.

    The job of being PM is indeed much harder than Cameron made it seem.

    Cameron made it look easy right up to the moment he utterly destroyed himself in the biggest unforced error since Suez.
    LOL! I think we're supposed to forget the fact that Cameron destroyed himself and Theresa May is (trying) to pick of the pieces of his [and Osborne's] self-imposed destruction...
  • 16661666 Posts: 72
    When the EU collapses we will realise we were right to get out
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,139
    GIN1138 said:

    SeanT said:

    I am reaching the reluctant and mournful conclusion that Andrea Leadsom would have been BETTER than Theresa May.

    And Boris would have been better still. He might have exploded the country but at least he'd be amusing.

    I've always liked Andrea Leadsom.
    Andrea Leadsom is a poisonous, misandric witch. The sooner she leaves parliament the better.
    What on eatth has Mrs L done to to so upset you?
    See my post below.

    TL;DR: she says employers should not employ male nannies as they might be paedophiles.

    http://www.daynurseries.co.uk/news/article.cfm/id/1577238/andrea-leadsom-suggests-male-childcare-workers-might-be-paedophiles

    It's a short step from that to people querying why I, a male, gave up work to look after a toddler. Nudge, nudge.

    She's sick and unfit for parliament.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872

    SeanT said:

    MaxPB said:

    The Heathrow decision is fucking terrible.

    It doesn't augur well for Brexit. May is simultaneously dithery and a bit clueless. And she has a terrible tin ear. She doesn't understand how things sound to others. She gives off the wrong signals, often unwittingly. Pff.
    She needs a Willie.

    I think her current method of governing, with the numbers she has, will prove to be politically unsustainable.

    Like Blair, May mistakes the Daily Mail, and what plays well with Paul Dacre, for middle England. The reality is that things are a lot more complex than a Daily Mail headline and most voters realise this.

    Her politics is not my criticism of her, even if it is yours.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,119
    Scott_P said:
    Faisal still not learned his lesson after making a complete fool of himself over Marmite last week then?
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited October 2016
    Leave/Remain by Constituency (Hanretty):

    image

    Quote:

    More generally, this exercise allows us to make the following claims:

    421 out of 574 English and Welsh constituencies probably voted to Leave

    Of these, 270 English and Welsh constituencies almost definitely voted to Leave

    152 constituencies probably voted to Remain.

    Of these, half (76) almost definitely voted to Remain.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    Scott_P said:

    @tompeck: Another cake on its way to Heathrow from the Amsterdam Schiphol chief exec. He sends one to say thank you every time the decision is delayed

    @tompeck: (This is true, by the way. He really does do this. They've had, I think, seven large and very fancy cakes now)

    Genuinely funny!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,725

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    MaxPB said:

    The Heathrow decision is fucking terrible.

    It doesn't augur well for Brexit. May is simultaneously dithery and a bit clueless. And she has a terrible tin ear. She doesn't understand how things sound to others. She gives off the wrong signals, often unwittingly. Pff.
    She needs a Willie.

    I think her current method of governing, with the numbers she has, will prove to be politically unsustainable.
    She does look quite isolated. She's going to fuck up Brexit and be hated by all sides, if she's not careful.

    On the other hand, out there in the boonies she is popular. And she's facing Corbyn.
    For how long? Once Len is re-elected to UNITE, the men in grey boiler suits can move in.

    Yep - once Len gets his job renewed by the 15% he no longer needs Jezza in the way that he does now.

    There are too many Tories assuming that Corbyn will be the opponent at GE 2018/19/20 and therefore it is already over. If it is Corbyn then they are right imho, but another, more competent, lefty leader? Who knows.

    A great reason for May to go to the country in Spring 2017 or 18.
    The words in your post seem to have become jumbled into the wrong order. Surely it should have read "who knows a more competent, lefty leader?"?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,690

    SeanT said:

    I am reaching the reluctant and mournful conclusion that Andrea Leadsom would have been BETTER than Theresa May.

    And Boris would have been better still. He might have exploded the country but at least he'd be amusing.

    I've always liked Andrea Leadsom.
    Andrea Leadsom is a poisonous, misandric witch. The sooner she leaves parliament the better.
    What a nasty post.
    No, it's reasonable.

    She said men should not be hired as nannies as they might be paedophiles.

    "As an employer we’re not, let’s face it, most of us don’t employ men as nannies, most of us don’t. Now you can call that sexist, I call that cautious and very sensible when you look at the stats.

    “Your odds are stacked against you if you employ a man. We know paedophiles are attracted to working with children. I’m sorry but they’re the facts.”

    http://www.daynurseries.co.uk/news/article.cfm/id/1577238/andrea-leadsom-suggests-male-childcare-workers-might-be-paedophiles

    Misandric? Yes. Poisonous? Yes I'll admit 'witch' is up to debate, but I'll stick with it; especially as I look after a child.
    Our current babysitter is 20 year old Raff, who arrives on a skateboard, plays video games, and who my six year old son has decided "is cool".
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,139
    chestnut said:

    Leave/Remain by Constituency:

    image

    Where's that come from, please?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Texas - University of Houston - Sample 1000 - 7-13 Oct

    Clinton 38 .. Trump 41

    http://www.opb.org/news/series/election-2016/hillary-clinton-kate-brown-lead-in-new-opb-poll/

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,119

    GIN1138 said:

    SeanT said:

    I am reaching the reluctant and mournful conclusion that Andrea Leadsom would have been BETTER than Theresa May.

    And Boris would have been better still. He might have exploded the country but at least he'd be amusing.

    I've always liked Andrea Leadsom.
    Andrea Leadsom is a poisonous, misandric witch. The sooner she leaves parliament the better.
    What on eatth has Mrs L done to to so upset you?
    See my post below.

    TL;DR: she says employers should not employ male nannies as they might be paedophiles.

    http://www.daynurseries.co.uk/news/article.cfm/id/1577238/andrea-leadsom-suggests-male-childcare-workers-might-be-paedophiles

    It's a short step from that to people querying why I, a male, gave up work to look after a toddler. Nudge, nudge.

    She's sick and unfit for parliament.
    That was bad. Did she apologize?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,139
    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    I am reaching the reluctant and mournful conclusion that Andrea Leadsom would have been BETTER than Theresa May.

    And Boris would have been better still. He might have exploded the country but at least he'd be amusing.

    I've always liked Andrea Leadsom.
    Andrea Leadsom is a poisonous, misandric witch. The sooner she leaves parliament the better.
    What a nasty post.
    No, it's reasonable.

    She said men should not be hired as nannies as they might be paedophiles.

    "As an employer we’re not, let’s face it, most of us don’t employ men as nannies, most of us don’t. Now you can call that sexist, I call that cautious and very sensible when you look at the stats.

    “Your odds are stacked against you if you employ a man. We know paedophiles are attracted to working with children. I’m sorry but they’re the facts.”

    http://www.daynurseries.co.uk/news/article.cfm/id/1577238/andrea-leadsom-suggests-male-childcare-workers-might-be-paedophiles

    Misandric? Yes. Poisonous? Yes I'll admit 'witch' is up to debate, but I'll stick with it; especially as I look after a child.
    Our current babysitter is 20 year old Raff, who arrives on a skateboard, plays video games, and who my six year old son has decided "is cool".
    Well, I hope your Leadsom-radar has checked him for any latent signs of paedophilia; i.e. being male.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,250
    http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/10/18/brexit-death-of-british-business/

    For those who want a bit of depressing reading from the NYRB: the decline in British industry since the 1950s, and how Brexit will make it worse.

    Apparently we export only marginally more goods than BELGIUM.
  • chestnut said:

    Leave/Remain by Constituency (Hanretty):

    image

    Quote:

    More generally, this exercise allows us to make the following claims:

    421 out of 574 English and Welsh constituencies probably voted to Leave

    Of these, 270 English and Welsh constituencies almost definitely voted to Leave

    152 constituencies probably voted to Remain.

    Of these, half (76) almost definitely voted to Remain.

    12 SNP Definite Remains? Surely be definition it must be 54 SNP Remains?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    chestnut said:

    Leave/Remain by Constituency (Hanretty):

    image

    Quote:

    More generally, this exercise allows us to make the following claims:

    421 out of 574 English and Welsh constituencies probably voted to Leave

    Of these, 270 English and Welsh constituencies almost definitely voted to Leave

    152 constituencies probably voted to Remain.

    Of these, half (76) almost definitely voted to Remain.

    12 SNP Definite Remains? Surely be definition it must be 54 SNP Remains?
    Something's up as the table doesn't add up to 650.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    National Tracker - Times-Picayune/Lucid - Sample 1,641 - 15-17 Oct

    Clinton 45 .. Trump 36

    https://luc.id/2016-presidential-tracker/
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    JackW said:

    Speedy said:

    So according to this, Texas, Arizona and Georgia are going to vote to the left of Nevada and Florida.

    50 state polls continue to be junk.

    Unless one believes that Hillary will win all 47 states exept Iowa and Ohio and Florida.

    You have a tendency to over-react to individual polls instead of noting multi pollster trend lines that clearly show Trump performing better in Ohio, Iowa and also Nevada in some polls whilst other trend lines show Clinton performing well in other swing states.

    TX and GA raise an eyebrow but we see outliers from time to time.
    I do recognise that.

    But 50 state polls have always been junk.

    Funny fact in that 50 state poll from Survey Monkey, if Trump wins Georgia he wins the Election.

    Google Consumer Surveys also have a crappy 50 state poll, with Hillary winning Kansas, Missouri and Indiana, and Trump winning Ohio, Florida, Iowa, N.C, Nevada and a tie in Michigan and Montana.

    50 state polls are junk.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,160

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    I am reaching the reluctant and mournful conclusion that Andrea Leadsom would have been BETTER than Theresa May.

    And Boris would have been better still. He might have exploded the country but at least he'd be amusing.

    I've always liked Andrea Leadsom.
    Andrea Leadsom is a poisonous, misandric witch. The sooner she leaves parliament the better.
    What a nasty post.
    No, it's reasonable.

    She said men should not be hired as nannies as they might be paedophiles.

    "As an employer we’re not, let’s face it, most of us don’t employ men as nannies, most of us don’t. Now you can call that sexist, I call that cautious and very sensible when you look at the stats.

    “Your odds are stacked against you if you employ a man. We know paedophiles are attracted to working with children. I’m sorry but they’re the facts.”

    http://www.daynurseries.co.uk/news/article.cfm/id/1577238/andrea-leadsom-suggests-male-childcare-workers-might-be-paedophiles

    Misandric? Yes. Poisonous? Yes I'll admit 'witch' is up to debate, but I'll stick with it; especially as I look after a child.
    Our current babysitter is 20 year old Raff, who arrives on a skateboard, plays video games, and who my six year old son has decided "is cool".
    Well, I hope your Leadsom-radar has checked him for any latent signs of paedophilia; i.e. being male.
    A pedant writes:

    Sorry, but "misandric" has been used twice today on PB, but it's not a word.
  • RobD said:

    chestnut said:

    Leave/Remain by Constituency (Hanretty):

    image

    Quote:

    More generally, this exercise allows us to make the following claims:

    421 out of 574 English and Welsh constituencies probably voted to Leave

    Of these, 270 English and Welsh constituencies almost definitely voted to Leave

    152 constituencies probably voted to Remain.

    Of these, half (76) almost definitely voted to Remain.

    12 SNP Definite Remains? Surely be definition it must be 54 SNP Remains?
    Something's up as the table doesn't add up to 650.
    It wouldn't as Speaker/NI/Green etc aren't in the table. But the SNP row should add up to 54 and should almost all be Definite Remain (I could understand a tiny number being Probable Remain).
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    I am reaching the reluctant and mournful conclusion that Andrea Leadsom would have been BETTER than Theresa May.

    And Boris would have been better still. He might have exploded the country but at least he'd be amusing.

    I've always liked Andrea Leadsom.
    Andrea Leadsom is a poisonous, misandric witch. The sooner she leaves parliament the better.
    What a nasty post.
    No, it's reasonable.

    She said men should not be hired as nannies as they might be paedophiles.

    "As an employer we’re not, let’s face it, most of us don’t employ men as nannies, most of us don’t. Now you can call that sexist, I call that cautious and very sensible when you look at the stats.

    “Your odds are stacked against you if you employ a man. We know paedophiles are attracted to working with children. I’m sorry but they’re the facts.”

    http://www.daynurseries.co.uk/news/article.cfm/id/1577238/andrea-leadsom-suggests-male-childcare-workers-might-be-paedophiles

    Misandric? Yes. Poisonous? Yes I'll admit 'witch' is up to debate, but I'll stick with it; especially as I look after a child.
    Our current babysitter is 20 year old Raff, who arrives on a skateboard, plays video games, and who my six year old son has decided "is cool".
    Fair play to you. We need more men in childcare roles, not fewer. My son is on his second male primary school teacher in three years. Still far, far too rare.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    chestnut said:

    Leave/Remain by Constituency (Hanretty):

    image

    Quote:

    More generally, this exercise allows us to make the following claims:

    421 out of 574 English and Welsh constituencies probably voted to Leave

    Of these, 270 English and Welsh constituencies almost definitely voted to Leave

    152 constituencies probably voted to Remain.

    Of these, half (76) almost definitely voted to Remain.

    12 SNP Definite Remains? Surely be definition it must be 54 SNP Remains?
    True, there is a mistake there.
  • 16661666 Posts: 72
    Within a few years the EU will unravel because politicians have not allowed it to develop gradually. I know no one is taking notice but watch this space.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited October 2016
    Hanretty appears to have focused on England and Wales.

    Scotland's outcomes were fairly clear in the main. There is no analysis of NI either.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,705


    She said men should not be hired as nannies as they might be paedophiles.

    "As an employer we’re not, let’s face it, most of us don’t employ men as nannies, most of us don’t. Now you can call that sexist, I call that cautious and very sensible when you look at the stats.

    Not that cautious to admit publicly that's what you're doing, let alone encourage others to do it, considering that it's unlawful direct discrimination in the terms of the Equality Act.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,160

    http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/10/18/brexit-death-of-british-business/

    For those who want a bit of depressing reading from the NYRB: the decline in British industry since the 1950s, and how Brexit will make it worse.

    Apparently we export only marginally more goods than BELGIUM.

    I like the start of this article:

    "It is hard to exaggerate the scale of the disaster the British people have inflicted upon themselves with their decision to leave the European Union, taken in the referendum last June."
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,139
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    SeanT said:

    I am reaching the reluctant and mournful conclusion that Andrea Leadsom would have been BETTER than Theresa May.

    And Boris would have been better still. He might have exploded the country but at least he'd be amusing.

    I've always liked Andrea Leadsom.
    Andrea Leadsom is a poisonous, misandric witch. The sooner she leaves parliament the better.
    What on eatth has Mrs L done to to so upset you?
    See my post below.

    TL;DR: she says employers should not employ male nannies as they might be paedophiles.

    http://www.daynurseries.co.uk/news/article.cfm/id/1577238/andrea-leadsom-suggests-male-childcare-workers-might-be-paedophiles

    It's a short step from that to people querying why I, a male, gave up work to look after a toddler. Nudge, nudge.

    She's sick and unfit for parliament.
    That was bad. Did she apologize?
    Not as far as I've seen. I *hate* her with a deep passion because of it.

    Being a man looking after a toddler can be hard. Amongst the vast majority of lovely people, you occasionally get questions like "why did you give up work?" or "Is your wife ill?" Comments such as hers help makes it worse.

    Fortunately, a couple of our friends have since made the same decision. I'm a trend-setter. :)

    There's another point as well. Sadly, many children are raised without a father at home. They then attend schools where, especially at primary school, male authority figures are a rarity. We need more men looking after children.

    It's also very good for equality. It's also great fun, and I'd recommend it to any male PB reader. Take at least a year off. Yes, nappies are smelly, but I'd take a tonne of nappies over seeing our child's first smile, or his first step.

    I've taken to lying, so Mrs J says: "Oh! He's just taken a step." I respond. "Wow! Has he?"

    Oddly, women I talk to do the same thing for their husbands ...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,250
    1666 said:

    Within a few years the EU will unravel because politicians have not allowed it to develop gradually. I know no one is taking notice but watch this space.

    Oh God. Is it a full moon?
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    JackW said:

    Texas - University of Houston - Sample 1000 - 7-13 Oct

    Clinton 38 .. Trump 41

    http://www.opb.org/news/series/election-2016/hillary-clinton-kate-brown-lead-in-new-opb-poll/

    Getting awfully close in TX. I need a long odds hedge against a Trump win but this just seems insane?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,111
    Considering we joined the EU with our tail between our legs as the sick man of Europe, I struggle to imagine how we'll thrive this time after Brexit.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Jobabob said:

    JackW said:

    Texas - University of Houston - Sample 1000 - 7-13 Oct

    Clinton 38 .. Trump 41

    http://www.opb.org/news/series/election-2016/hillary-clinton-kate-brown-lead-in-new-opb-poll/

    Getting awfully close in TX. I need a long odds hedge against a Trump win but this just seems insane?
    I mean Trump defeat obviously
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    RobD said:

    chestnut said:

    Leave/Remain by Constituency (Hanretty):

    image

    Quote:

    More generally, this exercise allows us to make the following claims:

    421 out of 574 English and Welsh constituencies probably voted to Leave

    Of these, 270 English and Welsh constituencies almost definitely voted to Leave

    152 constituencies probably voted to Remain.

    Of these, half (76) almost definitely voted to Remain.

    12 SNP Definite Remains? Surely be definition it must be 54 SNP Remains?
    Something's up as the table doesn't add up to 650.
    It wouldn't as Speaker/NI/Green etc aren't in the table. But the SNP row should add up to 54 and should almost all be Definite Remain (I could understand a tiny number being Probable Remain).
    It's about a hundred under.
This discussion has been closed.