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  • TonyE
    TonyE Posts: 938
    corporeal said:

    I've run out of popcorn :(

    I've run.out of Scotch. If it wasn't for the bloody insomnia id have buggered off to bed!
  • nunu
    nunu Posts: 6,024
    Trump is winning.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    nunu said:

    Trump is winning.

    As ever, they are both dire.
  • Andrew
    Andrew Posts: 2,900
    What have I missed, why is Trump wittering on about Post Offices?
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    Andrew said:

    What have I missed, why is Trump wittering on about Post Offices?

    Cause his balance sheet is great. Didn't you get the memo?
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    edited October 2016
    Trump is doing well here on the tax stuff. Its weird when he focuses he can be very effective....and now he is waffling.

    I think he has some condition. ADHD++++
  • williamglenn
    williamglenn Posts: 56,290
    nunu said:

    Trump is winning.

    He's got his sheet together tonight.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    Constitutional question - is the President empowered to raise taxes?
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    That Lincoln line was Trump’s best probably of either debate
  • TonyE
    TonyE Posts: 938
    RobD said:

    Constitutional question - is the President empowered to raise taxes?

    Not to my knowledge. Budgets must go though the democratic procedure
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    edited October 2016
    The advice Clinton-Bot-2000 has got is wrong here. She should just ignore Trump and play straight bat on every question and just lay out policy. Instead she sounds bad with the "alternative reality" stuff.
  • williamglenn
    williamglenn Posts: 56,290
    Trump has an odd habit of talking in the present tense about future plans.
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    RobD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Frank Luntz
    It's halftime – who's winning the debate so far?

    • 17 say Trump
    • 4 say Hillary
    • 9 tied

    Do you know what their verdict was on the first debate? Should help baseline these numbers.
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/27/luntz_focus_group_clinton_won_first_debate_against_trump.html
  • Essexit
    Essexit Posts: 1,966
    Andrew said:

    What have I missed, why is Trump wittering on about Post Offices?

    Somehow he got there from not having investments in Russia.
  • Andrew
    Andrew Posts: 2,900
    edited October 2016
    Forget score draw, this is a bore draw. There's nothing of interest from either.

    Of course, that suits Clinton down to the ground, since she's on for 330+ in the electoral college already. No need to take any risks.
  • corporeal
    corporeal Posts: 2,549
    edited October 2016
    RobD said:

    Constitutional question - is the President empowered to raise taxes?

    In short no.

    At length, mostly no but some limited technical areas maybe yes, possibly.

    But in almost all areas no.
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T:

    "Almost nine out of 10 women would rather be a woman than a man today, compared with just over half in 1947, a Radio 4 Woman's Hour poll suggests."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37600771
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Daily Mail
    Trump jabs Hillary: 'Honest Abe never lied. That’s the big difference between Lincoln and you' https://t.co/wNYSKDm9ZB #debate
  • DavidBrackenbury
    DavidBrackenbury Posts: 357
    Trump admits writing off losses against Federal income tax. And says Hilary's donors do too
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    edited October 2016
    In brief moments Trump is actually effective....then.....Clinton formed ISIS...

    Sneering Clinton. It is a really bad look....then Clinton-Bot-2000 focus group answer...focus group answer.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    That veto comment dropped like a lead balloon..
  • jonny83
    jonny83 Posts: 1,273
    So Trump basically admits the tax story is true?
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    DavidBrackenbury said:

    Trump admits writing off losses against Federal income tax. And says Hilary's donors do too

    If I had lost a $1bn, i'd be using it against future taxes.
  • DavidBrackenbury
    DavidBrackenbury Posts: 357
    Hilary isn't doing as well as I thought. Less nimble
  • Saltire
    Saltire Posts: 525
    williamglenn said:

    Trump keeps repeating the line about Bernie Sanders questioning Clinton's judgement.

    Good idea for Trump to try and attract some of Bernie's supporters who hate Hilary. There is a lot of unenthusiatic Democrats at the moment, maybe some might switch.
  • TonyE
    TonyE Posts: 938
    PlatoSaid said:

    Daily Mail
    Trump jabs Hillary: 'Honest Abe never lied. That’s the big difference between Lincoln and you' https://t.co/wNYSKDm9ZB #debate

    If honest Abe had lied, you'd never have found out about it. The joy of the pre internet, pre mass media age. As late as Kennedy and Johnson, Presidents got away with all sorts!
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Bret Baiar
    This picture put out by AP - one has to wonder at what point in the debate was this taken. https://t.co/8oQM2hrTqz
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    Crap all round. Trump, Clinton, moderators...
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Trump: 'She, she, she, she......'

    I wonder how this is going down with female American voters......
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    CarlottaVance said:

    Trump: 'She, she, she, she......'

    I wonder how this is going down with female American voters......

    Brilliantly ;-)
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    CarlottaVance said:

    Trump: 'She, she, she, she......'

    I wonder how this is going down with female American voters......

    Agreed...
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Andrew Neil
    Trump has rescued his campaign in this debate. Did not expect to write that.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    PlatoSaid said:

    Andrew Neil
    Trump has rescued his campaign in this debate. Did not expect to write that.

    Blimey, really?
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    edited October 2016
    The questions are really scatter gun, not that many which directly affect middle America. Some guy in Ohio who has worked in a factory won't be hearing much about what to look forward to for him and his family.
  • Kevin_McCandless
    Kevin_McCandless Posts: 392
    Wow. I didn't think the audience would be little more than a bunch of props.
  • DavidBrackenbury
    DavidBrackenbury Posts: 357
    Hilary brought up Iran. Unwise?
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Frank Luntz
    Hillary is struggling to defend herself. The group simply doesn't believe her. #debate https://t.co/7xqE6c2Nfn
  • Dromedary
    Dromedary Posts: 1,194
    "Russia is new in terms of nuclear. We are old in terms of nuclear."
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    RobD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Andrew Neil
    Trump has rescued his campaign in this debate. Did not expect to write that.

    Blimey, really?
    That surprised me too.....
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    Dromedary said:

    "Russia is new in terms of nuclear. We are old in terms of nuclear."

    They've been spending a lot recently on renewal
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2016
    Hillary talking a bit over the heads of the average American, on foreign policy. Too complex.
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    @DPHodges: Screw the election Hillary. Just punch the bastard.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    AndyJS said:

    Hillary talking a bit over the heads of the average American, on foreign policy.

    She can't fake having any common touch.
  • williamglenn
    williamglenn Posts: 56,290
    CarlottaVance said:

    @DPHodges: Screw the election Hillary. Just punch the bastard.

    Is Corbyn in the room?
  • corporeal
    corporeal Posts: 2,549
    CarlottaVance said:

    @DPHodges: Screw the election Hillary. Just punch the bastard.

    I thought it was Trump that had been practicing with UKIP.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    "How stupid is our country".... great vote winning slogan there!
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Trump portraying himself as a bodyguard for the US, probably his best chance of winning.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    edited October 2016
    Trump is wibbling all over the place.

    I am not sure the moderator should be arguing with Trump.
  • Essexit
    Essexit Posts: 1,966
    Why is the moderator challenging Trump on foreign policy so ferociously? Don't like the man but these moderators really are terrible.
  • corporeal
    corporeal Posts: 2,549
    Phil Elliott ‏@Philip_Elliott 2m2 minutes ago
    "He and I haven't spoken. I disagree," Trump says of his running mate Mike Pence.
  • TonyE
    TonyE Posts: 938
    Trump talks sense on military strategy! Don't announce what you're going to do, do it first and tell people afterwards!

    Who'd have thought that
  • DavidBrackenbury
    DavidBrackenbury Posts: 357
    williamglenn said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    @DPHodges: Screw the election Hillary. Just punch the bastard.

    Is Corbyn in the room?
    Yes. He's sitting on the floor
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    Essexit said:

    Why is the moderator challenging Trump on foreign policy so ferociously? Don't like the man but these moderators really are terrible.

    Agreed. They are really weak at times and let both talk for ages and have responses when they aren't suppose to. Then all of a sudden start getting into arguments with the candidates rather than moderating.
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Sean Davies
    Martha Raddatz is now personally arguing with Donald Trump because she doesn't like his answer. Pathetic.
  • Saltire
    Saltire Posts: 525
    TonyE said:

    Trump talks sense on military strategy! Don't announce what you're going to do, do it first and tell people afterwards!

    Who'd have thought that

    What, like when they killed Osama??
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Trump recovering to 5.5 on Betfair.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Essexit said:

    Why is the moderator challenging Trump on foreign policy so ferociously? Don't like the man but these moderators really are terrible.

    Agreed. They are really weak at times and let both talk for ages and have responses when they aren't suppose to. Then all of a sudden start getting into arguments with the candidates rather than moderating.
    And stifling the back and forth....
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    edited October 2016
    When Trump loses, I wonder what he is going to do? He is clearly seriously angry about what has happened the past few days, when he get buried at the polls, I hate to think how he will react.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    When Trump loses, I wonder what he is going to do?

    I imagine this is his last hurrah.
  • TonyE
    TonyE Posts: 938
    Hilary quite weak on foreign policy. Doesn't seem to understand the turkish angle on the Kurds at all.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    Trump arguing with the moderator again.
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    When Trump loses, I wonder what he is going to do? He is clearly seriously angry about what has happened the past few days, when he get buried at the polls, I hate to think how he will react.

    I don't think Hillary has it won just yet.
  • Kevin_McCandless
    Kevin_McCandless Posts: 392
    Wow. I miss Ronald Reagan. He would've hit out of the park most of these questions.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    edited October 2016
    Question...What about black people?

    NAFTA...NAFTA....
  • Essexit
    Essexit Posts: 1,966
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Essexit said:

    Why is the moderator challenging Trump on foreign policy so ferociously? Don't like the man but these moderators really are terrible.

    Agreed. They are really weak at times and let both talk for ages and have responses when they aren't suppose to. Then all of a sudden start getting into arguments with the candidates rather than moderating.
    They should fly David Dimbleby in for the next one.
  • DavidBrackenbury
    DavidBrackenbury Posts: 357
    RobD said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    When Trump loses, I wonder what he is going to do?

    I imagine this is his last hurrah.
    I think you're right. He is some times good and some times completely off the wall
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    edited October 2016
    Hiliary really is dislikable. HAHAHA, I got 87% of the vote, I was very proud of myself...ohhhh yes yes and humbled..yes don't forget humbled that is what the focus group said.
  • DavidBrackenbury
    DavidBrackenbury Posts: 357
    Hilary back to a focus group answer
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Question...What about black people?

    NAFTA...NAFTA....

    I'm still waiting for Hillary to drop a bomb.
  • Andrew
    Andrew Posts: 2,900
    Some rumours Pence is going to pull the plug.

    I did notice how swiftly Trump disagreed with him on Syria - didn't hedge it, he was very stark in his disagreement with his own VP nominee.
  • nunu
    nunu Posts: 6,024
    Trump has won this tonight.
  • TonyE
    TonyE Posts: 938
    Saltire said:

    TonyE said:

    Trump talks sense on military strategy! Don't announce what you're going to do, do it first and tell people afterwards!

    Who'd have thought that

    What, like when they killed Osama??
    Looking at recent history in Syria, they've talked a good game but achieved very little. ObL is a different story. That's how you achieve a limited and direct objective.
  • Barnesian
    Barnesian Posts: 9,221
    TonyE said:

    Hilary quite weak on foreign policy. Doesn't seem to understand the turkish angle on the Kurds at all.

    she does, but she has to handle it diplomatically.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    edited October 2016
    Clinton-Bot-2000 just malfunctioned and repeated exactly the same statement as earlier...word for word.
  • corporeal
    corporeal Posts: 2,549
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    When Trump loses, I wonder what he is going to do? He is clearly seriously angry about what has happened the past few days, when he get buried at the polls, I hate to think how he will react.

    He'll do what you're seeing now. He'll say it's rigged against him by the establishment (mention Bernie Sanders) that he was the real winner and he's going to go off and be a great and successful businessman. Then he'll look to leverage it into profit, media business, etc.
  • MikeL
    MikeL Posts: 7,809
    edited October 2016
    Remember people said Pence beat Kaine easily whereas polls had him only a narrow winner.

    Always think big picture - it isn't individual answers - it's will the debate move votes?
  • Barnesian
    Barnesian Posts: 9,221
    Betfair holding steady.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    Is Clinton going to be asked if she has the discipline?
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    edited October 2016
    RobD said:

    Is Clinton going to be asked if she has the discipline?

    No this is an attack Trump question.

    So many of the questions have been this....a setup up for one or the other to attack the other.

    How about some questions on domestic policy? No questions on energy future, or jobs at home or law and order....
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Clinton rambling too much.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    RobD said:

    Is Clinton going to be asked if she has the discipline?

    No this is an attack Trump question.

    So many of the questions have been this....a setup up for one or the other to attack the other.

    How about some questions on domestic policy?
    There you go.. supreme court justices. Still don't get why the courts are so politicised here.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    edited October 2016
    RobD said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    RobD said:

    Is Clinton going to be asked if she has the discipline?

    No this is an attack Trump question.

    So many of the questions have been this....a setup up for one or the other to attack the other.

    How about some questions on domestic policy?
    There you go.. supreme court justices. Still don't get why the courts are so politicised here.
    Again, I highly doubt Billy Bob really cares that much about that.
  • TonyE
    TonyE Posts: 938
    Clinton goes for Roe v Wade. Why does anyone think it's even an issue any more?
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    @IainDale: Hillary's problem in this debate is that after 75 minutes I can't remember a damn thing she's said. Trump's problem is that I can...
  • corporeal
    corporeal Posts: 2,549
    TonyE said:

    Clinton goes for Roe v Wade. Why does anyone think it's even an issue any more?

    You think it isn't?
  • MikeL
    MikeL Posts: 7,809
    edited October 2016
    Clinton goes from 1.25 to 1.28 in the last few mins.

    EDIT: Straight back to 1.26.
  • nunu
    nunu Posts: 6,024
    RobD said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    RobD said:

    Is Clinton going to be asked if she has the discipline?

    No this is an attack Trump question.

    So many of the questions have been this....a setup up for one or the other to attack the other.

    How about some questions on domestic policy?
    There you go.. supreme court justices. Still don't get why the courts are so politicised here.
    Ridiculous it changes from liberal to conservative just because of who is President. Judges should be independent.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    nunu said:

    RobD said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    RobD said:

    Is Clinton going to be asked if she has the discipline?

    No this is an attack Trump question.

    So many of the questions have been this....a setup up for one or the other to attack the other.

    How about some questions on domestic policy?
    There you go.. supreme court justices. Still don't get why the courts are so politicised here.
    Ridiculous it changes from liberal to conservative just because of who is President. Judges should be independent.
    Yep. Another thing we do right in the UK.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    edited October 2016
    CarlottaVance said:

    @IainDale: Hillary's problem in this debate is that after 75 minutes I can't remember a damn thing she's said. Trump's problem is that I can...

    The whole thing has been just surreal. 3hrs of debates, and I still have bugger all idea what their policies actually are...I have zero idea about Clinton's.
  • DavidBrackenbury
    DavidBrackenbury Posts: 357
    What is campaign contributions to do with the Supreme Court ?
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Frank Luntz
    CORRECTION: Trump is NOT tanking on foreign policy.

    This is actually an improvement from the first #debate. https://t.co/lleb8RSF46
  • Dromedary
    Dromedary Posts: 1,194
    They let him ask her a question - "Why don't you fund your own campaign?" - but don't let her answer it.
  • nunu
    nunu Posts: 6,024
    Moderators are rubbish, Trump might have rescued his campaign tonight but he is 5% behind.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    Only the last question, do we actually get a proper policy question.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    nunu said:

    Moderators are rubbish, Trump might have rescued his campaign tonight but he is 5% behind.

    Amazed it wasn't 90 minutes on the tapes, to be honest.
  • Essexit
    Essexit Posts: 1,966
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    @IainDale: Hillary's problem in this debate is that after 75 minutes I can't remember a damn thing she's said. Trump's problem is that I can...

    The whole thing has been just surreal. 3hrs of debates, and I still have bugger all idea what their policies actually are...I have zero idea about Clinton's.
    She wants to move America forwards, and be good because when America is good it's great...crystal clear, no?
  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    DavidBrackenbury said:

    What is campaign contributions to do with the Supreme Court ?

    I think it is about the citizens united judgement.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC?wprov=sfla1
  • Kevin_McCandless
    Kevin_McCandless Posts: 392
    Audience looks so alienated and hostile.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,724
    Essexit said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    @IainDale: Hillary's problem in this debate is that after 75 minutes I can't remember a damn thing she's said. Trump's problem is that I can...

    The whole thing has been just surreal. 3hrs of debates, and I still have bugger all idea what their policies actually are...I have zero idea about Clinton's.
    She wants to move America forwards, and be good because when America is good it's great...crystal clear, no?
    That really is about the level of the two debates. Secondary school kids could have a higher level of debate on policy than these two.
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Andrew said:

    Trump was 5.8 at the start, let's see how it goes. Betfair last time was a pretty accurate summary of public reaction to the debate.

    He's now 5.3.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.107373419
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