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One thing's for certain: Cameron and the liberal wing of the Tory party will be broken and humiliated. Everything they ever stood for has been annihilated by May's grovelling capitulation to the hard right. Let's face it, she might as well have produced a giant statue of Farage and invited us all to bow before it.0
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That's just sillyStark_Dawning said:One thing's for certain: Cameron and the liberal wing of the Tory party will be broken and humiliated. Everything they ever stood for has been annihilated by May's grovelling capitulation to the hard right. Let's face it, she might as well have produced a giant statue of Farage and invited us all to bow before it.
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I suspect we're going to end up staying in the Single Market, with quite a lot of control over immigration. After the French and German establishments get beaten up in their elections next year, "free movement of people" will probably be on its way out anyway.SeanT said:
There were clever subtle hints, however, that it WON'T be rock hard. "There will be compromise". "There will be give and take." "I want as much access as possible to the EU for our companies, and the same for EU companies here"Indigo said:
Or possibly it matches her own point of view, see the delight with which she ditched Osborne. People talk about her folly in putting Boris, Davis and Fox in those jobs, they might want to consider they got those jobs because she shares their views, even if she keeps it rather quiet.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, rock-hard Brexit is on the way. I have some sympathy. The Tory hard-right Leave faction is not something you'd cross if you want the quiet life.Black_Rook said:
She did the minimum possible to sound loyal to Cameron, ready to emerge as the unity candidate when he fell. She's played the politics very, very well.Philip_Thompson said:May does not sound like someone who was backing Remain during the campaign. Very strong and powerful.
A lot of language in the speech re: sovereignty, not going back under the authority of the ECJ, and restoring control over immigration. Think we can safely consign any EEA model to the dustbin, if we haven't already done so.
She's going for a bespoke deal with as much Single Market access as possible, but with "control" of Free Movement. To me it sounds like she is prepared to offer continued UK contributions.
We'll see.0 -
Erm, May was a reformer before Cameron took over. I've got my one nation centrist party back from Osbornian interventions.....Stark_Dawning said:One thing's for certain: Cameron and the liberal wing of the Tory party will be broken and humiliated. Everything they ever stood for has been annihilated by May's grovelling capitulation to the hard right. Let's face it, she might as well have produced a giant statue of Farage and invited us all to bow before it.
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You mean this bit:Stark_Dawning said:One thing's for certain: Cameron and the liberal wing of the Tory party will be broken and humiliated. Everything they ever stood for has been annihilated by May's grovelling capitulation to the hard right. Let's face it, she might as well have produced a giant statue of Farage and invited us all to bow before it.
May says existing workers’ rights will continue to apply as long as she remains PM.
She says she wants to enhance workers’ rights too.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/oct/02/conservative-conference-may-to-explain-brexit-great-repeal-bill-in-marr-interview-politics-live0 -
I've never seen him be anything other than a teenage nitwit. Norman would've been miles better.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tim Farron on Sky just now talking rubbish and so out of touch with the democraric will of the people. He speaks about lib dem local results recently as if he is the rising star in the firmanent. DeludedPaul_Bedfordshire said:
Its not a year its the remainder of that parliamentary session (ie until after the next Queens speech. So it could be as little as a couple of months.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The government's time scale allows the year to invoke the Parliament ActBlack_Rook said:
But the Lords can obstruct the passage of legislation for a year before the Parliament Act may be invoked to bypass them. Government could justify going to country as means to avoid a year of Parliamentary limbo caused by a tiny number of unelected Remain ultras, acting in defiance of both the Commons and the electorate.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Parliament Act will over rule the unelected House of LordsLibDem_Colin said:No doubt the Great Repeal Bill will result in interesting Parliamentary maneouvers both in the Commons and in the Lords.
If the Lib Dem peers all vote No it will be interesting to see how the crossbenchers vote.
Could the bill fail in the Lords?0 -
I thought it was the Leavers who were supposed to be bitter.Stark_Dawning said:One thing's for certain: Cameron and the liberal wing of the Tory party will be broken and humiliated. Everything they ever stood for has been annihilated by May's grovelling capitulation to the hard right. Let's face it, she might as well have produced a giant statue of Farage and invited us all to bow before it.
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Absolutely. A great speech from Mrs May, and followed by another from David Davis.Mortimer said:
Erm, May was a reformer before Cameron took over. I've got my one nation centrist party back from Osbornian interventions.....Stark_Dawning said:One thing's for certain: Cameron and the liberal wing of the Tory party will be broken and humiliated. Everything they ever stood for has been annihilated by May's grovelling capitulation to the hard right. Let's face it, she might as well have produced a giant statue of Farage and invited us all to bow before it.
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Farrow was the right choice, until Labour chose Corbyn.PlatoSaid said:
I've never seen him be anything other than a teenage nitwit. Norman would've been miles better.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tim Farron on Sky just now talking rubbish and so out of touch with the democraric will of the people. He speaks about lib dem local results recently as if he is the rising star in the firmanent. DeludedPaul_Bedfordshire said:
Its not a year its the remainder of that parliamentary session (ie until after the next Queens speech. So it could be as little as a couple of months.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The government's time scale allows the year to invoke the Parliament ActBlack_Rook said:
But the Lords can obstruct the passage of legislation for a year before the Parliament Act may be invoked to bypass them. Government could justify going to country as means to avoid a year of Parliamentary limbo caused by a tiny number of unelected Remain ultras, acting in defiance of both the Commons and the electorate.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Parliament Act will over rule the unelected House of LordsLibDem_Colin said:No doubt the Great Repeal Bill will result in interesting Parliamentary maneouvers both in the Commons and in the Lords.
If the Lib Dem peers all vote No it will be interesting to see how the crossbenchers vote.
Could the bill fail in the Lords?
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Better buy some land in Ireland. Nissan, Toyota, Honda moving there. Or rather, building new plants.Philip_Thompson said:Sounds like we are definitely leaving the Single Market.
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Like they did when we didn't join the Euro?surbiton said:
Better buy some land in Ireland. Nissan, Toyota, Honda moving there. Or rather, building new plants.Philip_Thompson said:Sounds like we are definitely leaving the Single Market.
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Access isn't the same as membership, the USA has access. The problem as usual with these speeches is separating what is actual objective from what is for party consumption, and what is for consumption in Brussels, who will have been listening with interest of course.SeanT said:
There were clever subtle hints, however, that it WON'T be rock hard. "There will be compromise". "There will be give and take." "I want as much access as possible to the EU for our companies, and the same for EU companies here"Indigo said:
Or possibly it matches her own point of view, see the delight with which she ditched Osborne. People talk about her folly in putting Boris, Davis and Fox in those jobs, they might want to consider they got those jobs because she shares their views, even if she keeps it rather quiet.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, rock-hard Brexit is on the way. I have some sympathy. The Tory hard-right Leave faction is not something you'd cross if you want the quiet life.Black_Rook said:
She did the minimum possible to sound loyal to Cameron, ready to emerge as the unity candidate when he fell. She's played the politics very, very well.Philip_Thompson said:May does not sound like someone who was backing Remain during the campaign. Very strong and powerful.
A lot of language in the speech re: sovereignty, not going back under the authority of the ECJ, and restoring control over immigration. Think we can safely consign any EEA model to the dustbin, if we haven't already done so.
She's going for a bespoke deal with as much Single Market access as possible, but with "control" of Free Movement. To me it sounds like she is prepared to offer continued UK contributions.
We'll see.0 -
"the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate"SeanT said:If the Lords try to block the GRACT then the Lords will be stuffed, or abolished. It would be constitutional suicide to obstruct the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate in British electoral history. A vote, moreover, on the most important political change in living memory.
Do these derelict punks feel lucky? Well, do they?
It will pass.
Don't exaggerate the 'will of the people' wasn't hugely one way or another, less than 4% in it. There isn't a mandate for 'hard Brexit'.0 -
And both singing from the same hymn sheet.......Sandpit said:
Absolutely. A great speech from Mrs May, and followed by another from David Davis.Mortimer said:
Erm, May was a reformer before Cameron took over. I've got my one nation centrist party back from Osbornian interventions.....Stark_Dawning said:One thing's for certain: Cameron and the liberal wing of the Tory party will be broken and humiliated. Everything they ever stood for has been annihilated by May's grovelling capitulation to the hard right. Let's face it, she might as well have produced a giant statue of Farage and invited us all to bow before it.
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There is only a mandate to leave the EU, that's it. There is a mandate to pump £350m per week into the NHS.logical_song said:
"the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate"SeanT said:If the Lords try to block the GRACT then the Lords will be stuffed, or abolished. It would be constitutional suicide to obstruct the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate in British electoral history. A vote, moreover, on the most important political change in living memory.
Do these derelict punks feel lucky? Well, do they?
It will pass.
Don't exaggerate the 'will of the people' wasn't hugely one way or another, less than 4% in it. There isn't a mandate for 'hard Brexit'.0 -
What did you expect, Stark Raving was eye wateringly bitter about this before the referendum.CarlottaVance said:
You mean this bit:Stark_Dawning said:One thing's for certain: Cameron and the liberal wing of the Tory party will be broken and humiliated. Everything they ever stood for has been annihilated by May's grovelling capitulation to the hard right. Let's face it, she might as well have produced a giant statue of Farage and invited us all to bow before it.
May says existing workers’ rights will continue to apply as long as she remains PM.
She says she wants to enhance workers’ rights too.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/oct/02/conservative-conference-may-to-explain-brexit-great-repeal-bill-in-marr-interview-politics-live0 -
LOL. that was rather a pathetic attack. I suggest you go back to the last thread and read what I wrote.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Please do not say that as Josias Jessop thinks it is just vengeance by LEAVErs... After all he is right about most walking matters.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It will pass easily with the positive support of a large number of labour , dup and ukip mps, all of whom respecting the vote of the people. The anger that any mps will receive who votes against will be hugeLibDem_Colin said:
One wonders if the Great Repeal Bill could actually fail in the Commons? Unlikely given enough arm-twisting on the Tory side i.e. vote this down and you will not have a seat in 2020.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Tim Farron on Sky just now talking rubbish and so out of touch with the democraric will of the people. He speaks about lib dem local results recently as if he is the rising star in the firmanent. DeludedPaul_Bedfordshire said:
Its not a year its the remainder of that parliamentary session (ie until after the next Queens speech. So it could be as little as a couple of months.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The government's time scale allows the year to invoke the Parliament ActBlack_Rook said:
But the Lords can obstruct the passage of legislation for a year before the Parliament Act may be invoked to bypass them. Government could justify going to country as means to avoid a year of Parliamentary limbo caused by a tiny number of unelected Remain ultras, acting in defiance of both the Commons and the electorate.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Parliament Act will over rule the unelected House of LordsLibDem_Colin said:No doubt the Great Repeal Bill will result in interesting Parliamentary maneouvers both in the Commons and in the Lords.
If the Lib Dem peers all vote No it will be interesting to see how the crossbenchers vote.
Could the bill fail in the Lords?
It's sad to see the hard right of the Conservative Party acting in a similar manner to the hard left of Labour when it comes to MPs who disagree with them.0 -
Mr. T, still can't believe Le Pen will win. Might get to the run-off.
I wonder what time the Hungarian results will come in.0 -
So if the Referendum had gone the other way by 4% you would be arguing there was no mandate for Remain.logical_song said:
"the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate"SeanT said:If the Lords try to block the GRACT then the Lords will be stuffed, or abolished. It would be constitutional suicide to obstruct the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate in British electoral history. A vote, moreover, on the most important political change in living memory.
Do these derelict punks feel lucky? Well, do they?
It will pass.
Don't exaggerate the 'will of the people' wasn't hugely one way or another, less than 4% in it. There isn't a mandate for 'hard Brexit'.0 -
Carlotta can change her opinions very quickly. To be fair, Fitalass doe snot.CarlottaVance said:
And both singing from the same hymn sheet.......Sandpit said:
Absolutely. A great speech from Mrs May, and followed by another from David Davis.Mortimer said:
Erm, May was a reformer before Cameron took over. I've got my one nation centrist party back from Osbornian interventions.....Stark_Dawning said:One thing's for certain: Cameron and the liberal wing of the Tory party will be broken and humiliated. Everything they ever stood for has been annihilated by May's grovelling capitulation to the hard right. Let's face it, she might as well have produced a giant statue of Farage and invited us all to bow before it.
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Not joining the Euro did not mean 10% tariff.CarlottaVance said:
Like they did when we didn't join the Euro?surbiton said:
Better buy some land in Ireland. Nissan, Toyota, Honda moving there. Or rather, building new plants.Philip_Thompson said:Sounds like we are definitely leaving the Single Market.
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I'd have thought it is certain that Le Pen will make the run-off and almost certain that she won't win. And it will probably be that way in the next few French Presidential elections.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. T, still can't believe Le Pen will win. Might get to the run-off.
I wonder what time the Hungarian results will come in.0 -
"Hard" BrExit doesn't exist any more than "Soft" BrExit does, its a remainer fantasy to try and split their opposition. We either leave the EU and become a sovereign nation, or we don't. You can't be a bit in control of your borders and laws, either the British Government controls them, or Brussels does.logical_song said:
"the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate"SeanT said:If the Lords try to block the GRACT then the Lords will be stuffed, or abolished. It would be constitutional suicide to obstruct the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate in British electoral history. A vote, moreover, on the most important political change in living memory.
Do these derelict punks feel lucky? Well, do they?
It will pass.
Don't exaggerate the 'will of the people' wasn't hugely one way or another, less than 4% in it. There isn't a mandate for 'hard Brexit'.0 -
They may not reach the turnout threshold:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. T, still can't believe Le Pen will win. Might get to the run-off.
I wonder what time the Hungarian results will come in.
To be valid, turnout needs to be over 50%. Four hours before the end of voting the figure was about 30%.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-375283250 -
My local MP being interviewed on BBC 24.
How come my last few MPs (who I voted for) have all been fairly attractive women?
Am I that shallow?
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Nope, the government never promised, or even suggested that it would. A pressure group said it would be a possibility, it still seems to shock remainers that Cummings and Elliott are not the government of the UK.surbiton said:
There is only a mandate to leave the EU, that's it. There is a mandate to pump £350m per week into the NHS.logical_song said:
"the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate"SeanT said:If the Lords try to block the GRACT then the Lords will be stuffed, or abolished. It would be constitutional suicide to obstruct the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate in British electoral history. A vote, moreover, on the most important political change in living memory.
Do these derelict punks feel lucky? Well, do they?
It will pass.
Don't exaggerate the 'will of the people' wasn't hugely one way or another, less than 4% in it. There isn't a mandate for 'hard Brexit'.0 -
Sounds like the only way the minions would have got more excited over May's speech was if they had lowered a giant banana from the rafters.0
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When are the Racists going to win in Hungary ?0
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One of the best SNLs ever - at least the bit I stayed awake for. The skit on the sink hole was hilarious.Sandpit said:
First five minutes of this rips them both to shreds.MTimT said:SNL last night ripped into Hillary for using James Brown's "I feel good' coming onto stage at a husting post the debate. Michael Che (who is black) said that "If Hillary had any black friends, she'd know that James Brown died of pneumonia"
MikeK, hope you get well soon.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=FO6SSdplULI0 -
Remember, the "government" side lost. The pressure group is now the government.Indigo said:
Nope, the government never promised, or even suggested that it would. A pressure group said it would be a possibility, it still seems to shock remainers that Cummings and Elliott are not the government of the UK.surbiton said:
There is only a mandate to leave the EU, that's it. There is a mandate to pump £350m per week into the NHS.logical_song said:
"the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate"SeanT said:If the Lords try to block the GRACT then the Lords will be stuffed, or abolished. It would be constitutional suicide to obstruct the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate in British electoral history. A vote, moreover, on the most important political change in living memory.
Do these derelict punks feel lucky? Well, do they?
It will pass.
Don't exaggerate the 'will of the people' wasn't hugely one way or another, less than 4% in it. There isn't a mandate for 'hard Brexit'.0 -
Not if it was a straight banana.FrancisUrquhart said:Sounds like the only way the minions would have got more excited over May's speech was if they had lowered a giant banana from the rafters.
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Have things changed that much since 2002? I know she isn't as toxic as her dad, but if the choice is her or Juppe/Sarkozy, the Left will vote for the latter. The only way she wins is if she's up against a Left candidate and even then I think it would be a long shot.SeanT said:
The bookies see it differently, likesay (though we know they can be wrong). They have her at 7/2 or 4/1. That is a non-negligible chance.tlg86 said:
I'd have thought it is certain that Le Pen will make the run-off and almost certain that she won't win. And it will probably be that way in the next few French Presidential elections.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. T, still can't believe Le Pen will win. Might get to the run-off.
I wonder what time the Hungarian results will come in.
If the vote was held now, she'd lose. If there are three more Nice-style attacks before the vote, she wins?0 -
Turnout needs to be 50% to be binding on the government, which they are hoping for because it makes their parliamentary and political games easier to play ("Don't look at me, its what the people wanted"), below 50% its an advisory referendum and needs to be ratified by the government, which will probably still happen, but is more awkward politically.CarlottaVance said:
They may not reach the turnout threshold:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. T, still can't believe Le Pen will win. Might get to the run-off.
I wonder what time the Hungarian results will come in.
To be valid, turnout needs to be over 50%. Four hours before the end of voting the figure was about 30%.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-375283250 -
surbiton said:
Not joining the Euro did not mean 10% tariff.CarlottaVance said:
Like they did when we didn't join the Euro?surbiton said:
Better buy some land in Ireland. Nissan, Toyota, Honda moving there. Or rather, building new plants.Philip_Thompson said:Sounds like we are definitely leaving the Single Market.
But it was an effective tariff in that non-EZ companies had currency transaction costs that EZ countries did not. Not 10% but probably in the order of 1-2% (I'll happily stand corrected by someone with first hand experience on this)0 -
Could you point me to the ministerial positions held by Cummings and Elliott ?surbiton said:
Remember, the "government" side lost. The pressure group is now the government.Indigo said:
Nope, the government never promised, or even suggested that it would. A pressure group said it would be a possibility, it still seems to shock remainers that Cummings and Elliott are not the government of the UK.surbiton said:
There is only a mandate to leave the EU, that's it. There is a mandate to pump £350m per week into the NHS.logical_song said:
"the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate"SeanT said:If the Lords try to block the GRACT then the Lords will be stuffed, or abolished. It would be constitutional suicide to obstruct the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate in British electoral history. A vote, moreover, on the most important political change in living memory.
Do these derelict punks feel lucky? Well, do they?
It will pass.
Don't exaggerate the 'will of the people' wasn't hugely one way or another, less than 4% in it. There isn't a mandate for 'hard Brexit'.0 -
Theresa May's speech today gave the immediate answers on A50, the legal process of leaving and taking back contol of our borders.
Later in the week she will enhance workers rights, take in hand board room excesses and put a sympathetic tone into benefits. No doubt she will go further to the centre in other matters.
It does make you wonder how labour mps must be feeling today after their recent disasters and the prospect of some of them, indeed many of them, ever being in Parliament again after 20200 -
Indeed. EEA, the 'Norway Model' and the test of that alphabet soup have now been exposed as the hollow mockery they always were. (I've yet to decide if they're proponents were genuinely duplicitous or just useful idiots.) We face a grim future of forever tugging our forelocks as Liam Fox tells us how unproductive we are.glw said:
The EU isn't very interested in a deal, so we will get hard brexit by default. May at least is clear on that.surbiton said:There is only a mandate to leave the EU, that's it.
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It worked both ways. 10% tariff will not make much difference to BMW or Mercedes. Do you think I will swap my BMW for a Micra ? I will pay 10% more. BMW may even reduce the price like they do in Denmark because they have 25% VAT.MTimT said:surbiton said:
Not joining the Euro did not mean 10% tariff.CarlottaVance said:
Like they did when we didn't join the Euro?surbiton said:
Better buy some land in Ireland. Nissan, Toyota, Honda moving there. Or rather, building new plants.Philip_Thompson said:Sounds like we are definitely leaving the Single Market.
But it was an effective tariff in that non-EZ companies had currency transaction costs that EZ countries did not. Not 10% but probably in the order of 1-2% (I'll happily stand corrected by someone with first hand experience on this)
But will Micra sell in the EU with 10% added ?0 -
Has there been a greater rapture since the Quiet Man addressed the merry throng?FrancisUrquhart said:Sounds like the only way the minions would have got more excited over May's speech was if they had lowered a giant banana from the rafters.
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Indeed, public speeches such as these, if they are well written, are for multiple audiences. I think we should just relax until we have some hard data. Although, reading the coffee dregs is entertaining.Indigo said:
Access isn't the same as membership, the USA has access. The problem as usual with these speeches is separating what is actual objective from what is for party consumption, and what is for consumption in Brussels, who will have been listening with interest of course.SeanT said:
There were clever subtle hints, however, that it WON'T be rock hard. "There will be compromise". "There will be give and take." "I want as much access as possible to the EU for our companies, and the same for EU companies here"Indigo said:
Or possibly it matches her own point of view, see the delight with which she ditched Osborne. People talk about her folly in putting Boris, Davis and Fox in those jobs, they might want to consider they got those jobs because she shares their views, even if she keeps it rather quiet.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, rock-hard Brexit is on the way. I have some sympathy. The Tory hard-right Leave faction is not something you'd cross if you want the quiet life.Black_Rook said:
She did the minimum possible to sound loyal to Cameron, ready to emerge as the unity candidate when he fell. She's played the politics very, very well.Philip_Thompson said:May does not sound like someone who was backing Remain during the campaign. Very strong and powerful.
A lot of language in the speech re: sovereignty, not going back under the authority of the ECJ, and restoring control over immigration. Think we can safely consign any EEA model to the dustbin, if we haven't already done so.
She's going for a bespoke deal with as much Single Market access as possible, but with "control" of Free Movement. To me it sounds like she is prepared to offer continued UK contributions.
We'll see.0 -
The three bastards are in Foreign, Foreign Trade and EU EXit.Indigo said:
Could you point me to the ministerial positions held by Cummings and Elliott ?surbiton said:
Remember, the "government" side lost. The pressure group is now the government.Indigo said:
Nope, the government never promised, or even suggested that it would. A pressure group said it would be a possibility, it still seems to shock remainers that Cummings and Elliott are not the government of the UK.surbiton said:
There is only a mandate to leave the EU, that's it. There is a mandate to pump £350m per week into the NHS.logical_song said:
"the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate"SeanT said:If the Lords try to block the GRACT then the Lords will be stuffed, or abolished. It would be constitutional suicide to obstruct the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate in British electoral history. A vote, moreover, on the most important political change in living memory.
Do these derelict punks feel lucky? Well, do they?
It will pass.
Don't exaggerate the 'will of the people' wasn't hugely one way or another, less than 4% in it. There isn't a mandate for 'hard Brexit'.0 -
Spurs were best priced 20-1 for the title before today's game yet Liverpool were I think circa 5-1.
Now that was value it seems....0 -
Mr. T, I just think the French will vote for whoever she faces in the run-off, assuming she gets to it.
More chance of Hofer winning in Austria.0 -
Farron was always a hopeless choice, but the logical one for a party that had chosen to repudiate Clegg and swing leftwards.PlatoSaid said:I've never seen him be anything other than a teenage nitwit. Norman would've been miles better.
Events since have served to demonstrate that the best path was to stick with a combination of social liberalism and the free market, and try to win back the Yellow Tory vote. Few voters to the Lib Dems' right will now believe that they are still in the game for anything other than to form an anti-Tory coalition for voting reform (and are willing to put Corbyn and Salmond into power to do it,) and most people to the Left have abandoned them for the Greens or Labour already and have no intention of ever coming back again.
Wittering about a tiny handful of local council by-elections is not going to convince anyone that they are making meaningful progress, either. Back in the May elections there were only very modest net gains in the English councils (although it was notable that they actually lost Stockport to Labour.) They made a couple of constituency gains at Holyrood from the SNP, but overall they were unchanged on seats and became the fifth party behind the Greens. The Welsh assembly result was a cataclysm. They went into the General Election polling at about 8% of the vote, they won only about 8% of the vote, and are still stuck on 8% of national VI today. The notional results calculated by Wells for the revised seat boundaries show the Lib Dems with a notional majority in just three seats in England and Wales, and within 10% of the leading party in only a dozen more (and they won't be able to exploit an incumbency advantage in most of those.) Values aren't yet available for Scotland, but the equivalent figures there are probably just the one seat, with two or three more marginals available.
The Lib Dems are going to need to recover substantial vote shares from all of their rivals and convert all of their best chances just to get back to the 20 seats they won under Paddy Ashdown in 1992. As it is, come the next GE, they'll be doing quite well just to get their popular vote share back into double figures.0 -
SeanT said:
She's 4/1 in the bookies, so a 20% chance. I give Sarko a 20-30% chance. Juppe is clear favourite (he's about evens).Morris_Dancer said:Mr. T, still can't believe Le Pen will win. Might get to the run-off.
I wonder what time the Hungarian results will come in.
So nearly a 50% chance either Sarko or Le Pen will win, shaking the EU up, once again.
I think it's highly likely that there is a majority in France for a major change in its relationship with the EU. But I think Le Pen's chances are minimal, certainly less than the implied 20%, as many French people just cannot bring themselves to vote for her, even if they are sympathetic to the anti-EU views she espouses. Much like many GOPers cannot bring themselves to vote Trump.
If Sarkozy makes the run off, I think there is a very good chance he will win. However, to do that, he has to beat Le Pen. So my money is definitely on Juppe.0 -
It worked both ways with currency transactions just as it will with tariffs. No difference except the number.surbiton said:
It worked both ways. 10% tariff will not make much difference to BMW or Mercedes. Do you think I will swap my BMW for a Micra ? I will pay 10% more. BMW may even reduce the price like they do in Denmark because they have 25% VAT.MTimT said:surbiton said:
Not joining the Euro did not mean 10% tariff.CarlottaVance said:
Like they did when we didn't join the Euro?surbiton said:
Better buy some land in Ireland. Nissan, Toyota, Honda moving there. Or rather, building new plants.Philip_Thompson said:Sounds like we are definitely leaving the Single Market.
But it was an effective tariff in that non-EZ companies had currency transaction costs that EZ countries did not. Not 10% but probably in the order of 1-2% (I'll happily stand corrected by someone with first hand experience on this)
But will Micra sell in the EU with 10% added ?
But you have an excellent point on price elasticity and margins (ability of the companies to absorb increased costs).0 -
Best £10 I've spent for a while!0
-
Mr. Observer, are you referring to my F1 tip?
Post-race analysis up here:
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/malaysia-post-race-analysis-2016.html0 -
Long years of grinding opposition await those Lab MPs with, say, a 10% majority or more. The rest will be joining their erstwhile Scottish cousins on the job market come May 2020.Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May's speech today gave the immediate answers on A50, the legal process of leaving and taking back contol of our borders.
Later in the week she will enhance workers rights, take in hand board room excesses and put a sympathetic tone into benefits. No doubt she will go further to the centre in other matters.
It does make you wonder how labour mps must be feeling today after their recent disasters and the prospect of some of them, indeed many of them, ever being in Parliament again after 20200 -
thing is, I'm not actually "that" surprised we've won......SouthamObserver said:Best £10 I've spent for a while!
now that is a good sign.
TSE also said he'd bet on us winning today too....0 -
A good loser!SouthamObserver said:Best £10 I've spent for a while!
0 -
I told you Spurs were going to win.Scrapheap_as_was said:Spurs were best priced 20-1 for the title before today's game yet Liverpool were I think circa 5-1.
Now that was value it seems....
Tidy little profit too.
Now to reinvest my winnings on Europe winning the Ryder Cup0 -
COYS-1
-
Last week, there were 14 standing ovations during Big Brother Jeremy Corbyn's speech. Today, our pathetic, unpopular and out-of-touch so-called prime minister Theresa May only got 2.
On the other hand, the Conservative Party conference has the impressive brilliant display of inspiring fatuous slogans ("A Country That Works For Everyone") on the balconies, and not just on the backdrop.
Enver Hoxha managed to combine both of these brilliantisms:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jwZ37MnYbiw0 -
Well you know politics isn't as simple as that. With the right leader and enough boots on the ground, Labour could get much closer.rottenborough said:
Long years of grinding opposition await those Lab MPs with, say, a 10% majority or more. The rest will be joining their erstwhile Scottish cousins on the job market come May 2020.Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa May's speech today gave the immediate answers on A50, the legal process of leaving and taking back contol of our borders.
Later in the week she will enhance workers rights, take in hand board room excesses and put a sympathetic tone into benefits. No doubt she will go further to the centre in other matters.
It does make you wonder how labour mps must be feeling today after their recent disasters and the prospect of some of them, indeed many of them, ever being in Parliament again after 2020
Oh.0 -
The key for Spurs will be to keep it up for the whole season and not tire out as we did at the end of last season.Scrapheap_as_was said:
thing is, I'm not actually "that" surprised we've won......SouthamObserver said:Best £10 I've spent for a while!
now that is a good sign.
TSE also said he'd bet on us winning today too....0 -
Reminds me a bit of the way that quite often during election declarations the candidate with the lowest number of votes gets the loudest cheer.JohnLoony said:Last week, there were 14 standing ovations during Big Brother Jeremy Corbyn's speech. Today, our pathetic, unpopular and out-of-touch so-called prime minister Theresa May only got 2.
On the other hand, the Conservative Party conference has the impressive brilliant display of inspiring fatuous slogans ("A Country That Works For Everyone") on the balconies, and not just on the backdrop.
Enver Hoxha managed to combine both of these brilliantisms:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jwZ37MnYbiw0 -
But that's just the politics of Enver.JohnLoony said:Last week, there were 14 standing ovations during Big Brother Jeremy Corbyn's speech. Today, our pathetic, unpopular and out-of-touch so-called prime minister Theresa May only got 2.
On the other hand, the Conservative Party conference has the impressive brilliant display of inspiring fatuous slogans ("A Country That Works For Everyone") on the balconies, and not just on the backdrop.
Enver Hoxha managed to combine both of these brilliantisms:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jwZ37MnYbiw
ed. to add copyright in that joke belongs to the late tim.0 -
So let me get this right, three Leave supporting politicians, none of whom were the Chairman, CEO or PR/Policy Director of Vote Leave are in government positions, but are not PM, and this commits the elected government to the positions floated by Vote Leave ? Well its a view I suppose.surbiton said:
The three bastards are in Foreign, Foreign Trade and EU EXit.Indigo said:
Could you point me to the ministerial positions held by Cummings and Elliott ?surbiton said:
Remember, the "government" side lost. The pressure group is now the government.Indigo said:
Nope, the government never promised, or even suggested that it would. A pressure group said it would be a possibility, it still seems to shock remainers that Cummings and Elliott are not the government of the UK.surbiton said:
There is only a mandate to leave the EU, that's it. There is a mandate to pump £350m per week into the NHS.logical_song said:
"the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate"SeanT said:If the Lords try to block the GRACT then the Lords will be stuffed, or abolished. It would be constitutional suicide to obstruct the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate in British electoral history. A vote, moreover, on the most important political change in living memory.
Do these derelict punks feel lucky? Well, do they?
It will pass.
Don't exaggerate the 'will of the people' wasn't hugely one way or another, less than 4% in it. There isn't a mandate for 'hard Brexit'.0 -
-
OK providing that any contributions to the EU are part of our 0.7% overseas aid contribution.SeanT said:
....Indigo said:
Or possibly it matches her own point of view, see the delight with which she ditched Osborne. People talk about her folly in putting Boris, Davis and Fox in those jobs, they might want to consider they got those jobs because she shares their views, even if she keeps it rather quiet.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, rock-hard Brexit is on the way. I have some sympathy. The Tory hard-right Leave faction is not something you'd cross if you want the quiet life.Black_Rook said:
She did the minimum possible to sound loyal to Cameron, ready to emerge as the unity candidate when he fell. She's played the politics very, very well.Philip_Thompson said:May does not sound like someone who was backing Remain during the campaign. Very strong and powerful.
A lot of language in the speech re: sovereignty, not going back under the authority of the ECJ, and restoring control over immigration. Think we can safely consign any EEA model to the dustbin, if we haven't already done so.
She's going for a bespoke deal with as much Single Market access as possible, but with "control" of Free Movement. To me it sounds like she is prepared to offer continued UK contributions. ....
0 -
I'd settle for that.TCPoliticalBetting said:
OK providing that any contributions to the EU are part of our 0.7% overseas aid contribution.SeanT said:
....Indigo said:
Or possibly it matches her own point of view, see the delight with which she ditched Osborne. People talk about her folly in putting Boris, Davis and Fox in those jobs, they might want to consider they got those jobs because she shares their views, even if she keeps it rather quiet.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, rock-hard Brexit is on the way. I have some sympathy. The Tory hard-right Leave faction is not something you'd cross if you want the quiet life.Black_Rook said:
She did the minimum possible to sound loyal to Cameron, ready to emerge as the unity candidate when he fell. She's played the politics very, very well.Philip_Thompson said:May does not sound like someone who was backing Remain during the campaign. Very strong and powerful.
A lot of language in the speech re: sovereignty, not going back under the authority of the ECJ, and restoring control over immigration. Think we can safely consign any EEA model to the dustbin, if we haven't already done so.
She's going for a bespoke deal with as much Single Market access as possible, but with "control" of Free Movement. To me it sounds like she is prepared to offer continued UK contributions. ....0 -
Johnson: "EU trying to veto ivory ban despite having a president called Donald Tusk". Here's a photo of him #CPC16 https://t.co/GCJ07A6JZW0 -
Dear god not another capitalisation option in this debate.Indigo said:
"Hard" BrExit doesn't exist any more than "Soft" BrExit does, its a remainer fantasy to try and split their opposition. We either leave the EU and become a sovereign nation, or we don't. You can't be a bit in control of your borders and laws, either the British Government controls them, or Brussels does.logical_song said:
"the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate"SeanT said:If the Lords try to block the GRACT then the Lords will be stuffed, or abolished. It would be constitutional suicide to obstruct the will of the people, expressed in a direct vote, and with the biggest mandate in British electoral history. A vote, moreover, on the most important political change in living memory.
Do these derelict punks feel lucky? Well, do they?
It will pass.
Don't exaggerate the 'will of the people' wasn't hugely one way or another, less than 4% in it. There isn't a mandate for 'hard Brexit'.0 -
Ian Dunt not a fan:
The lunatics at the Tory conference applauded all of this. They cheered the Union, even as May announced the greatest strain she could possibly impose on it. They cheered when a speaker mentioned Gibraltar, even though it was now at risk like never before. They cheered dreams of British economic greatness, which are now in jeopardy precisely because of the policy they were jubilant about.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/10/02/may-speech-makes-it-clear-we-re-leaving-the-single-market0 -
Boris remains a total class act
Superb performance at conference.0 -
Two years oldTheScreamingEagles said:
0 -
Chrisg0000
Boris Johnson has just made a speech about liberalism that no libdem has made for a century. Brilliant.0 -
Also on politics.co.uk:CarlottaVance said:Ian Dunt not a fan:
The lunatics at the Tory conference applauded all of this. They cheered the Union, even as May announced the greatest strain she could possibly impose on it. They cheered when a speaker mentioned Gibraltar, even though it was now at risk like never before. They cheered dreams of British economic greatness, which are now in jeopardy precisely because of the policy they were jubilant about.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/10/02/may-speech-makes-it-clear-we-re-leaving-the-single-market
*Momentum conference should give the left hope
*Corbyn shows extraordinary bravery standing up for immigrants
*Unite chief: British media must be taken over and defeated
*Rachel Reeves' comments on immigration could encourage hate attacks
*Living wage 'a disaster' for low paid workers (written by the president of the Corbyn-backing Bakers' Union)
*Opposition to the Canada-EU trade deal has reached a tipping point
*Surge of religious influence in our education system (by the British Humanist Association)
This is only a slightly edited highlights package. Going to that site looking for a positive slant on a Tory conference speech would be rather like expecting Conservative Home to sing the praises of John McDonnell.0 -
And so the glorious revolution proceeds to tear itself apart:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/clive-lewis-attacked-for-disloyalty-to-jeremy-corbyn-at-anti-tory-march-in-birmingham_uk_57f0f6c2e4b0e315f283a12a?h78vkj4i&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg000000670 -
Spectator
Full text: Boris Johnson’s conference speech https://t.co/CNkPisK1ZK https://t.co/OE1JZZuaYS0 -
The tyson of journalists.SeanT said:
Dunt is a dipstickCarlottaVance said:Ian Dunt not a fan:
The lunatics at the Tory conference applauded all of this. They cheered the Union, even as May announced the greatest strain she could possibly impose on it. They cheered when a speaker mentioned Gibraltar, even though it was now at risk like never before. They cheered dreams of British economic greatness, which are now in jeopardy precisely because of the policy they were jubilant about.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/10/02/may-speech-makes-it-clear-we-re-leaving-the-single-market
He tweeted this:
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/775259599846924288
He's one of the ultra-Remainers who actively hates Britain and Britishness. I'm glad he's depressed.0 -
He's right though, at least about the strain on the Union.MaxPB said:
The tyson of journalists.SeanT said:
Dunt is a dipstickCarlottaVance said:Ian Dunt not a fan:
The lunatics at the Tory conference applauded all of this. They cheered the Union, even as May announced the greatest strain she could possibly impose on it. They cheered when a speaker mentioned Gibraltar, even though it was now at risk like never before. They cheered dreams of British economic greatness, which are now in jeopardy precisely because of the policy they were jubilant about.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/10/02/may-speech-makes-it-clear-we-re-leaving-the-single-market
He tweeted this:
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/775259599846924288
He's one of the ultra-Remainers who actively hates Britain and Britishness. I'm glad he's depressed.0 -
He did some fab plagiarism expose a few years ago - but his bias is beyond silly now. He's not someone I bother with nowadays.SeanT said:
Dunt is a dipstickCarlottaVance said:Ian Dunt not a fan:
The lunatics at the Tory conference applauded all of this. They cheered the Union, even as May announced the greatest strain she could possibly impose on it. They cheered when a speaker mentioned Gibraltar, even though it was now at risk like never before. They cheered dreams of British economic greatness, which are now in jeopardy precisely because of the policy they were jubilant about.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/10/02/may-speech-makes-it-clear-we-re-leaving-the-single-market
He tweeted this:
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/775259599846924288
He's one of the ultra-Remainers who actively hates Britain and Britishness. I'm glad he's depressed.0 -
IMO, Brexit strengthens the Union, because it raises the cost of leaving it.rottenborough said:
He's right though, at least about the strain on the Union.MaxPB said:
The tyson of journalists.SeanT said:
Dunt is a dipstickCarlottaVance said:Ian Dunt not a fan:
The lunatics at the Tory conference applauded all of this. They cheered the Union, even as May announced the greatest strain she could possibly impose on it. They cheered when a speaker mentioned Gibraltar, even though it was now at risk like never before. They cheered dreams of British economic greatness, which are now in jeopardy precisely because of the policy they were jubilant about.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/10/02/may-speech-makes-it-clear-we-re-leaving-the-single-market
He tweeted this:
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/775259599846924288
He's one of the ultra-Remainers who actively hates Britain and Britishness. I'm glad he's depressed.0 -
If he's upset, the Conservatives must be doing something right.CarlottaVance said:Ian Dunt not a fan:
The lunatics at the Tory conference applauded all of this. They cheered the Union, even as May announced the greatest strain she could possibly impose on it. They cheered when a speaker mentioned Gibraltar, even though it was now at risk like never before. They cheered dreams of British economic greatness, which are now in jeopardy precisely because of the policy they were jubilant about.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/10/02/may-speech-makes-it-clear-we-re-leaving-the-single-market
0 -
Subliminal messaging to George Osborne.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Will Mchoebag
Placard-waving lefties take to the streets demanding the hanging of Tories, to whom they refer as "the nasty party" with no irony.0 -
We're repealing the 'Great' out of Britain.Sean_F said:
IMO, Brexit strengthens the Union, because it raises the cost of leaving it.rottenborough said:
He's right though, at least about the strain on the Union.MaxPB said:
The tyson of journalists.SeanT said:
Dunt is a dipstickCarlottaVance said:Ian Dunt not a fan:
The lunatics at the Tory conference applauded all of this. They cheered the Union, even as May announced the greatest strain she could possibly impose on it. They cheered when a speaker mentioned Gibraltar, even though it was now at risk like never before. They cheered dreams of British economic greatness, which are now in jeopardy precisely because of the policy they were jubilant about.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/10/02/may-speech-makes-it-clear-we-re-leaving-the-single-market
He tweeted this:
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/775259599846924288
He's one of the ultra-Remainers who actively hates Britain and Britishness. I'm glad he's depressed.0 -
The 'we should protect 15% of our Trade by sacrificing 60% of it' line needs work....SeanT said:
Hard Brexit makes Sindy, economically, almost impossible, on so many levels. Though the Scots might still be minded to risk it. Who knows.Sean_F said:
IMO, Brexit strengthens the Union, because it raises the cost of leaving it.rottenborough said:
He's right though, at least about the strain on the Union.MaxPB said:
The tyson of journalists.SeanT said:
Dunt is a dipstickCarlottaVance said:Ian Dunt not a fan:
The lunatics at the Tory conference applauded all of this. They cheered the Union, even as May announced the greatest strain she could possibly impose on it. They cheered when a speaker mentioned Gibraltar, even though it was now at risk like never before. They cheered dreams of British economic greatness, which are now in jeopardy precisely because of the policy they were jubilant about.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/10/02/may-speech-makes-it-clear-we-re-leaving-the-single-market
He tweeted this:
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/775259599846924288
He's one of the ultra-Remainers who actively hates Britain and Britishness. I'm glad he's depressed.
And the 'EU Fisheries Policy is Great' doesn't play too well in the North East.....0 -
Change is in the air.SeanT said:
Hard Brexit makes Sindy, economically, almost impossible, on so many levels. Though the Scots might still be minded to risk it. Who knows.Sean_F said:
IMO, Brexit strengthens the Union, because it raises the cost of leaving it.rottenborough said:
He's right though, at least about the strain on the Union.MaxPB said:
The tyson of journalists.SeanT said:
Dunt is a dipstickCarlottaVance said:Ian Dunt not a fan:
The lunatics at the Tory conference applauded all of this. They cheered the Union, even as May announced the greatest strain she could possibly impose on it. They cheered when a speaker mentioned Gibraltar, even though it was now at risk like never before. They cheered dreams of British economic greatness, which are now in jeopardy precisely because of the policy they were jubilant about.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/10/02/may-speech-makes-it-clear-we-re-leaving-the-single-market
He tweeted this:
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/775259599846924288
He's one of the ultra-Remainers who actively hates Britain and Britishness. I'm glad he's depressed.0 -
If you love trivia, you really can't miss
Allanholloway
Devonshire was one of 2 UK PMs to die outside the UK - also Ramsay MacDonald who died on board a ship in South Atlantic in November 19370 -
Corals have LibDems down to 8/1 in Witney.0
-
On the contrary, we're putting the 'Great' back in.williamglenn said:
We're repealing the 'Great' out of Britain.Sean_F said:
IMO, Brexit strengthens the Union, because it raises the cost of leaving it.rottenborough said:
He's right though, at least about the strain on the Union.MaxPB said:
The tyson of journalists.SeanT said:
Dunt is a dipstickCarlottaVance said:Ian Dunt not a fan:
The lunatics at the Tory conference applauded all of this. They cheered the Union, even as May announced the greatest strain she could possibly impose on it. They cheered when a speaker mentioned Gibraltar, even though it was now at risk like never before. They cheered dreams of British economic greatness, which are now in jeopardy precisely because of the policy they were jubilant about.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/10/02/may-speech-makes-it-clear-we-re-leaving-the-single-market
He tweeted this:
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/775259599846924288
He's one of the ultra-Remainers who actively hates Britain and Britishness. I'm glad he's depressed.0 -
Settling in for an evening of golf. Never thought I'd say that.0
-
Miss Vance, agree on the 'union that matters' approach to bilateral trade, and the currency question still has no answer.
Mr. Glenn, the Romans didn't need Brussels to be great, and neither do we.
As an aside, Boris couldn't recall if Trajan or Hadrian had the Empire under its greatest size. It was Trajan, who briefly extended its easternmost border in a short-lived territory which Hadrian gave up.0 -
Nor the South West. Earlier this year I was pleasantly surprised to find a fishing industry still in existence in Weymouth. Chatting to some of the locals they were all jolly keen at "getting our waters back in a couple of years".CarlottaVance said:
The 'we should protect 15% of our Trade by sacrificing 60% of it' line needs work....SeanT said:
Hard Brexit makes Sindy, economically, almost impossible, on so many levels. Though the Scots might still be minded to risk it. Who knows.Sean_F said:
IMO, Brexit strengthens the Union, because it raises the cost of leaving it.rottenborough said:
He's right though, at least about the strain on the Union.MaxPB said:
The tyson of journalists.SeanT said:
Dunt is a dipstickCarlottaVance said:Ian Dunt not a fan:
The lunatics at the Tory conference applauded all of this. They cheered the Union, even as May announced the greatest strain she could possibly impose on it. They cheered when a speaker mentioned Gibraltar, even though it was now at risk like never before. They cheered dreams of British economic greatness, which are now in jeopardy precisely because of the policy they were jubilant about.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/10/02/may-speech-makes-it-clear-we-re-leaving-the-single-market
He tweeted this:
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/775259599846924288
He's one of the ultra-Remainers who actively hates Britain and Britishness. I'm glad he's depressed.
And the 'EU Fisheries Policy is Great' doesn't play too well in the North East.....0 -
Interesting. If you think that might happen BF has it at 16, although not much money floating around.El_Capitano said:Corals have LibDems down to 8/1 in Witney.
0 -
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/01/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-health/index.html
Trump questions Hillarys loyalty to Bill. Think about that for a second.0 -
F1: just a thought. If Rosberg and Hamilton finish the next five races and Hamilton wins four, Rosberg one, and every result is a 1-2, Rosberg takes the title.
Not an impossible gap to close, but tricky unless Rosberg has a DNF.0 -
Since you don't want the UK to exist as a political entity in the future, I don't see why that should concern you.williamglenn said:
We're repealing the 'Great' out of Britain.Sean_F said:
IMO, Brexit strengthens the Union, because it raises the cost of leaving it.rottenborough said:
He's right though, at least about the strain on the Union.MaxPB said:
The tyson of journalists.SeanT said:
Dunt is a dipstickCarlottaVance said:Ian Dunt not a fan:
The lunatics at the Tory conference applauded all of this. They cheered the Union, even as May announced the greatest strain she could possibly impose on it. They cheered when a speaker mentioned Gibraltar, even though it was now at risk like never before. They cheered dreams of British economic greatness, which are now in jeopardy precisely because of the policy they were jubilant about.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/10/02/may-speech-makes-it-clear-we-re-leaving-the-single-market
He tweeted this:
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/775259599846924288
He's one of the ultra-Remainers who actively hates Britain and Britishness. I'm glad he's depressed.0 -
Harsh..surbiton said:
Fitalass doe snot.CarlottaVance said:
And both singing from the same hymn sheet.......Sandpit said:
Absolutely. A great speech from Mrs May, and followed by another from David Davis.Mortimer said:
Erm, May was a reformer before Cameron took over. I've got my one nation centrist party back from Osbornian interventions.....Stark_Dawning said:One thing's for certain: Cameron and the liberal wing of the Tory party will be broken and humiliated. Everything they ever stood for has been annihilated by May's grovelling capitulation to the hard right. Let's face it, she might as well have produced a giant statue of Farage and invited us all to bow before it.
0 -
Yes. At which point Scotland would have to apply to join the EU as a new entrant, not keeping any of the UK's existing opt outs as a successor nation or whatever that stupid idea was.SeanT said:
Yes, which is why I don't rule out Sindy. Scots might just think "fuck it", like the Brits did.rottenborough said:
Change is in the air.SeanT said:
Hard Brexit makes Sindy, economically, almost impossible, on so many levels. Though the Scots might still be minded to risk it. Who knows.Sean_F said:
IMO, Brexit strengthens the Union, because it raises the cost of leaving it.rottenborough said:
He's right though, at least about the strain on the Union.MaxPB said:
The tyson of journalists.SeanT said:
Dunt is a dipstickCarlottaVance said:Ian Dunt not a fan:
The lunatics at the Tory conference applauded all of this. They cheered the Union, even as May announced the greatest strain she could possibly impose on it. They cheered when a speaker mentioned Gibraltar, even though it was now at risk like never before. They cheered dreams of British economic greatness, which are now in jeopardy precisely because of the policy they were jubilant about.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/10/02/may-speech-makes-it-clear-we-re-leaving-the-single-market
He tweeted this:
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/775259599846924288
He's one of the ultra-Remainers who actively hates Britain and Britishness. I'm glad he's depressed.
Interestingly, May seemed to rule out a Sindyref2 before Brexit is finalised and delivered. So Sturgeon might have to wait til 2020 if she wants another go.
Anyway, as I see it the appetite for Sindy is gone. Obviously anecdotal, but judging from a a Scottish cousin who campaigned for Indy and Remain now not convinced by Indy and a SLAB unionist/remain colleague who initially backed Indy after the vote going back to his default position once the shock wore off. I think there are enough enough unionist/remain voters who aren't moved by the EU and would back No in a second referendum. That's why Nicola isn't going to even bother trying to get one.0 -
Yes, Betfair has crossed over today. Nico now 1.65 and Lewis 2.5.Morris_Dancer said:F1: just a thought. If Rosberg and Hamilton finish the next five races and Hamilton wins four, Rosberg one, and every result is a 1-2, Rosberg takes the title.
Not an impossible gap to close, but tricky unless Rosberg has a DNF.
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/#/motor-sport/event/27582432/market?marketId=1.121499283
Lewis needs to win the last five races.0 -
Mr. Sandpit, practically identical on Ladbrokes.
There are other ways Hamilton can get the title. A Rosberg DNF is most obvious, but if the Red Bulls gets ahead of Rosberg it makes Hamilton's job substantially easier.0 -
Sturgeon is a fan of the Dunt article encouraging her following to read it....0
