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  • Mr. M, indeed, it's a new situation, and a long term shift. How we and others adapt will determine how we do over the next fifty years or so.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    The US might be about to get one. More will follow.

    That may be so, but are these resets any more likely to deliver growth than what has gone before?
  • John_M said:

    Patrick said:

    MaxPB said:

    John_M said:

    MaxPB said:

    Very poor US ISM figures, it definitely feels like the US economy is slowing down. Probably good news for Trump given that Hillary is the continuity candidate. Sterling up to almost $1.34 on the news as well.

    EZ growth figures were nothing to write home about either. Plod, plod, plod: the western economies.
    Indeed. One of the reasons people like Trump or Le Pen even get a look in is because the west is stuck in a rut of low and uneven growth. The poor are more likely to feel spending cuts and the least likely to feel the benefits of economic growth. Whether the government is Obama, Hollande, Cameron or others, there isn't an answer to this question that people are willing to accept or believe is true.
    The establishment everywhere exudes self satisfaction and complacence. But it is the politics of failure - and that increasingly doesn't win votes. People everywhere are sick to death of their politicians not delivering for them and are starting to get comfortable not voting for the same old same old. Most western countries need a popular reset. We got a sort of one with Brexit. The US might be about to get one. More will follow.
    Think it's worth revisiting something I posted at the weekend. The UK economy has generally grown by about 25% per decade. In the ten years post-crash it's likely to come in at around half that - and it's the best performing of the big four European economies.

    Combined with increased debt servicing costs and we're pretty much out of options. Assuming #Brexit punts the deficit reduction target to 2020-1, those costs will rise to ~4.5% of GDP.
    Though its worth remembering in our post-Brexit phase that the Tories won a majority on the back of our economics. Which considering our best performing status was arguably justified.

    If anything Brexit was about national confidence that we didn't need Europe. Had we been performing worse, we likely would have clung on to nurse.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,203
    edited September 2016

    Oh Theresa, why did you employ him in the first place, everyone knows he's a preening bell end.

    Theresa May rebukes David Davis over warning that UK could leave the single market

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/theresa-may-rebukes-david-davis-over-warning-that-uk-could-leave/


    Bickering between May and Davis I see...

    Westminster has been given their warning by the electorate but it appears they aren't listening. The 17m may have no choice but to elect a UKIP government to get Brexit done...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,708
    edited September 2016
    ‘White people need to take responsibility... they are privileged through racism’: Black Lives Matter issues inflammatory Twitter statement as it confirms all NINE activists who brought chaos London City Airport are white

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3775517/Protesters-storm-runway-London-City-Airport-bringing-flights-standstill-stranding-thousands-passengers.html

    White Power...no shit that not it....White Solidarity....
  • taffys said:

    The US might be about to get one. More will follow.

    That may be so, but are these resets any more likely to deliver growth than what has gone before?

    Who knows? But if the resets wipe away an old order of elitist failures who believe they own the place and rule by right then it is a good thing in and of itself. Take the example of the Netherlands where I have lived 3 times. Assuming Geert Wilders and his PVV win an election (not a given - but let's assume) they may well fail as a government. But the Euro-loving socialist establishment will be gone. The slate would be clean for a successor government to succeed, not bound by the paralysing orthodoxies of today. The uncertainty of success beats the certainty of failure to my mind.
  • Mr. Urquhart, white privilege can be traced back to when the Romans won the Punic Wars.

    Maximum racism by a white monoculture against an alliance of Liby-Phoenicians, Celts, and Numidians.
  • ‘White people need to take responsibility... they are privileged through racism’: Black Lives Matter issues inflammatory Twitter statement as it confirms all NINE activists who brought chaos London City Airport are white

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3775517/Protesters-storm-runway-London-City-Airport-bringing-flights-standstill-stranding-thousands-passengers.html

    PB Lives Matter!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,891
    GIN1138 said:

    Oh Theresa, why did you employ him in the first place, everyone knows he's a preening bell end.

    Theresa May rebukes David Davis over warning that UK could leave the single market

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/theresa-may-rebukes-david-davis-over-warning-that-uk-could-leave/


    Bickering between May and Davis I see...

    Westminster has been given their warning by the electorate but it appears they aren't listening. The 17m may have no choice but to elect a UKIP government to get Brexit done...
    A tad unlikely.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,983
    GIN1138 said:

    Oh Theresa, why did you employ him in the first place, everyone knows he's a preening bell end.

    Theresa May rebukes David Davis over warning that UK could leave the single market

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/theresa-may-rebukes-david-davis-over-warning-that-uk-could-leave/


    Bickering between May and Davis I see...

    Westminster has been given their warning by the electorate but it appears they aren't listening. The 17m may have no choice but to elect a UKIP government to get Brexit done...
    I'm sorry, but a fair number of the 52% (including me) wanted soft Brexit.
  • Mr. 1000, I suspect a strong majority in the country would be happy with a middling departure (neither BINO nor the Faragian approach). But May needs to satisfy her party as well.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,708
    edited September 2016
    I see this is the new BBC / Guardian outcry hobbyhorse...

    Controversial spit hoods are to be trialled by the Metropolitan Police.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37286499

    You can always tell when they don't agree, as they call it controversial.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited September 2016

    ‘White people need to take responsibility... they are privileged through racism’: Black Lives Matter issues inflammatory Twitter statement as it confirms all NINE activists who brought chaos London City Airport are white

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3775517/Protesters-storm-runway-London-City-Airport-bringing-flights-standstill-stranding-thousands-passengers.html

    Not in the least surprised. Spoilt middle class white kids have been ‘speaking for’ and ‘protesting on behalf of’ their pet victims in the most condescending and patronising way for decades.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    John_M said:

    Patrick said:

    MaxPB said:

    John_M said:

    MaxPB said:

    Very poor US ISM figures, it definitely feels like the US economy is slowing down. Probably good news for Trump given that Hillary is the continuity candidate. Sterling up to almost $1.34 on the news as well.

    EZ growth figures were nothing to write home about either. Plod, plod, plod: the western economies.
    Indeed. One of the reasons people like Trump or Le Pen even get a look in is because the west is stuck in a rut of low and uneven growth. The poor are more likely to feel spending cuts and the least likely to feel the benefits of economic growth. Whether the government is Obama, Hollande, Cameron or others, there isn't an answer to this question that people are willing to accept or believe is true.
    The establishment everywhere exudes self satisfaction and complacence. But it is the politics of failure - and that increasingly doesn't win votes. People everywhere are sick to death of their politicians not delivering for them and are starting to get comfortable not voting for the same old same old. Most western countries need a popular reset. We got a sort of one with Brexit. The US might be about to get one. More will follow.
    Think it's worth revisiting something I posted at the weekend. The UK economy has generally grown by about 25% per decade. In the ten years post-crash it's likely to come in at around half that - and it's the best performing of the big four European economies.

    Combined with increased debt servicing costs and we're pretty much out of options. Assuming #Brexit punts the deficit reduction target to 2020-1, those costs will rise to ~4.5% of GDP.
    Although that better GDP growth is largely driven by immigration ironically. On a per capita basis it's about the same as the Eurozone - in particular, the UK does better than Italy but worse than Germany.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    This seems like a big enough effect to make it worthwhile for ambitious MPs to change their names to Aaron Aardvark or whatever.

    Also may explain why Dianne Abbott has had such a successful career.
  • Jesus Christ, just looking at the photos of White Lives Don't Matter protest, how many f##king police does it take to remove 9 idiots?
  • Mr. Urquhart, they spent four hours pussyfooting about before they even arrested one of them.

    It'd be interesting to get a pink beret/Gap Years Matter equation on police numbers.
  • rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Oh Theresa, why did you employ him in the first place, everyone knows he's a preening bell end.

    Theresa May rebukes David Davis over warning that UK could leave the single market

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/theresa-may-rebukes-david-davis-over-warning-that-uk-could-leave/


    Bickering between May and Davis I see...

    Westminster has been given their warning by the electorate but it appears they aren't listening. The 17m may have no choice but to elect a UKIP government to get Brexit done...
    I'm sorry, but a fair number of the 52% (including me) wanted soft Brexit.
    Too many shadows whispering voices
    Faces on posters too many choices
    If when why what how much have you got
    Have you got it do you get it
    If so how often
    Which do you choose
    A hard or soft option
    (How much do you need)
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,540
    Does having an effective almost zero interest rate (plus QE) result in poor project selection, as cash is cheap thus any positive rate of return is good.

    If there is a low rate of interest, say 5%, project selection is more important and only projects with a high rate of return get chosen. Hence overall the real rate of return is higher?

    Another concept is that technology has created advances in goods and services without price increases. So GDP has not gone up even though goods and services provided are qualitatively better?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424
    edited September 2016

    ‘White people need to take responsibility... they are privileged through racism’: Black Lives Matter issues inflammatory Twitter statement as it confirms all NINE activists who brought chaos London City Airport are white

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3775517/Protesters-storm-runway-London-City-Airport-bringing-flights-standstill-stranding-thousands-passengers.html

    White Power...no shit that not it....White Solidarity....

    Come on Met Police, make an example of these jumped-up middle class idiots or they'll keep doing this.

    Charge them with endangering aircraft, haul them in front of a magistrate in the morning and then remanded to see a judge and jury a few months down the line. That will give them some thinking time to decide if it was all worth it.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''I'm sorry, but a fair number of the 52% (including me) wanted soft Brexit.''

    Indeed Mr RCS but I wonder if the mood has hardened since the vote.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,708
    edited September 2016
    MP_SE said:
    Quite incredible line of questioning....its a private matter and the police haven't brought any charges and therefore that should be that....What utter nonsense.

    This bollocks about it being a private matter, is just that bollocks.
  • Off topic: For no great reason I was looking at when the last shots were fired in WW2. Seems there was still heavy fighting going on fully 5 days after the Japs surrendered. That's crazy!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Sandpit said:

    ‘White people need to take responsibility... they are privileged through racism’: Black Lives Matter issues inflammatory Twitter statement as it confirms all NINE activists who brought chaos London City Airport are white

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3775517/Protesters-storm-runway-London-City-Airport-bringing-flights-standstill-stranding-thousands-passengers.html

    White Power...no shit that not it....White Solidarity....

    Come on Met Police, make an example of these jumped-up middle class idiots or they'll keep doing this.

    Charge them with endangering aircraft, haul them in front of a magistrate in the morning and then remanded to see a judge and jury a few months down the line. That will give them some thinking time to decide if it was all worth it.
    Boris's water cannons would have come in useful today.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Oh Theresa, why did you employ him in the first place, everyone knows he's a preening bell end.

    Theresa May rebukes David Davis over warning that UK could leave the single market

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/theresa-may-rebukes-david-davis-over-warning-that-uk-could-leave/


    Bickering between May and Davis I see...

    Westminster has been given their warning by the electorate but it appears they aren't listening. The 17m may have no choice but to elect a UKIP government to get Brexit done...
    I'm sorry, but a fair number of the 52% (including me) wanted soft Brexit.
    Do you think we will get a soft Brexit? I assume you mean a business and social environment between the UK and the rEU that is not drastically different from the present?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,426
    Alistair said:

    AndyJS said:

    FPT:

    Clinton's average national lead down to 3.3 points. A bit close for comfort from her point of view:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

    The CNN/ORC Poll giving Trump +1 has a fairly anomalous Republican/Democract/Independents split.

    Lets unskew those polls!
    Anyone would think that the US media wants to skew polls to engineer a "too close to call" meme....
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    FF43 said:

    John_M said:

    Patrick said:

    MaxPB said:

    John_M said:

    MaxPB said:

    Very poor US ISM figures, it definitely feels like the US economy is slowing down. Probably good news for Trump given that Hillary is the continuity candidate. Sterling up to almost $1.34 on the news as well.

    EZ growth figures were nothing to write home about either. Plod, plod, plod: the western economies.
    Indeed. One of the reasons people like Trump or Le Pen even get a look in is because the west is stuck in a rut of low and uneven growth. The poor are more likely to feel spending cuts and the least likely to feel the benefits of economic growth. Whether the government is Obama, Hollande, Cameron or others, there isn't an answer to this question that people are willing to accept or believe is true.
    The establishment everywhere exudes self satisfaction and complacence. But it is the politics of failure - and that increasingly doesn't win votes. People everywhere are sick to death of their politicians not delivering for them and are starting to get comfortable not voting for the same old same old. Most western countries need a popular reset. We got a sort of one with Brexit. The US might be about to get one. More will follow.
    Think it's worth revisiting something I posted at the weekend. The UK economy has generally grown by about 25% per decade. In the ten years post-crash it's likely to come in at around half that - and it's the best performing of the big four European economies.

    Combined with increased debt servicing costs and we're pretty much out of options. Assuming #Brexit punts the deficit reduction target to 2020-1, those costs will rise to ~4.5% of GDP.
    Although that better GDP growth is largely driven by immigration ironically. On a per capita basis it's about the same as the Eurozone - in particular, the UK does better than Italy but worse than Germany.
    It's one of our issues. Our economy isn't getting better, we're just running a more successful Ponzi scheme than our neighbours.

    As it stands now, we have a government budget like Blairs, with (thanks to debt servicing) a Thatcher level of funding to departments.
  • Patrick said:

    Off topic: For no great reason I was looking at when the last shots were fired in WW2. Seems there was still heavy fighting going on fully 5 days after the Japs surrendered. That's crazy!

    I see your 5 days and raise you 29 years!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_holdout
    Intelligence officer Hiroo Onoda, who was relieved of duty by his former commanding officer on Lubang Island in the Philippines in March 1974, and Teruo Nakamura, who was stationed on Morotai Island in Indonesia and surrendered in December 1974, were the last confirmed holdouts
  • Some good local news:"Car parts manufacturer Gestamp Tallent to relocate to new Four Ashes site in £70m investment. One of Cannock's major employers is to relocate to a massive new £56.3 million factory at Four Ashes, near Wolverhampton, and make a £70 million investment in new equipment and fitting out. (Express and Star)


  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424
    edited September 2016
    TGOHF said:

    Sandpit said:

    ‘White people need to take responsibility... they are privileged through racism’: Black Lives Matter issues inflammatory Twitter statement as it confirms all NINE activists who brought chaos London City Airport are white

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3775517/Protesters-storm-runway-London-City-Airport-bringing-flights-standstill-stranding-thousands-passengers.html

    White Power...no shit that not it....White Solidarity....

    Come on Met Police, make an example of these jumped-up middle class idiots or they'll keep doing this.

    Charge them with endangering aircraft, haul them in front of a magistrate in the morning and then remanded to see a judge and jury a few months down the line. That will give them some thinking time to decide if it was all worth it.
    Boris's water cannons would have come in useful today.
    Someone on a pilots' forum suggested a JCB, to push them over the edge into the drink still wearing their chains.
    Someone else suggested running a plane past them at full blast every few minutes until they surrendered. :D
  • Not sure that really counts Sunil!
  • Patrick said:

    Not sure that really counts Sunil!

    [They] either adamantly doubted the veracity of the formal surrender due to strong dogmatic or militaristic principles, or simply were not aware of it because communications had been cut off by Allied advances including the United States island hopping campaign.

    :)
  • rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Oh Theresa, why did you employ him in the first place, everyone knows he's a preening bell end.

    Theresa May rebukes David Davis over warning that UK could leave the single market

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/theresa-may-rebukes-david-davis-over-warning-that-uk-could-leave/


    Bickering between May and Davis I see...

    Westminster has been given their warning by the electorate but it appears they aren't listening. The 17m may have no choice but to elect a UKIP government to get Brexit done...
    I'm sorry, but a fair number of the 52% (including me) wanted soft Brexit.
    They should have voted Remain and let the malcontent Leavers work to sweeten Cameron's 'renegotiation' until it became acceptable to them. Voting Leave for a soft Brexit was playing with fire.
  • Sandpit said:

    TGOHF said:

    Sandpit said:

    ‘White people need to take responsibility... they are privileged through racism’: Black Lives Matter issues inflammatory Twitter statement as it confirms all NINE activists who brought chaos London City Airport are white

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3775517/Protesters-storm-runway-London-City-Airport-bringing-flights-standstill-stranding-thousands-passengers.html

    White Power...no shit that not it....White Solidarity....

    Come on Met Police, make an example of these jumped-up middle class idiots or they'll keep doing this.

    Charge them with endangering aircraft, haul them in front of a magistrate in the morning and then remanded to see a judge and jury a few months down the line. That will give them some thinking time to decide if it was all worth it.
    Boris's water cannons would have come in useful today.
    Someone on a pilots' forum suggested a JCB, to push them over the edge into the drink still wearing their chains.
    Someone else suggested running a plane past them at full blast every few minutes until they surrendered. :D
    The airport company should sue them for damages.

  • Sandpit said:

    TGOHF said:

    Sandpit said:

    ‘White people need to take responsibility... they are privileged through racism’: Black Lives Matter issues inflammatory Twitter statement as it confirms all NINE activists who brought chaos London City Airport are white

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3775517/Protesters-storm-runway-London-City-Airport-bringing-flights-standstill-stranding-thousands-passengers.html

    White Power...no shit that not it....White Solidarity....

    Come on Met Police, make an example of these jumped-up middle class idiots or they'll keep doing this.

    Charge them with endangering aircraft, haul them in front of a magistrate in the morning and then remanded to see a judge and jury a few months down the line. That will give them some thinking time to decide if it was all worth it.
    Boris's water cannons would have come in useful today.
    Someone on a pilots' forum suggested a JCB, to push them over the edge into the drink still wearing their chains.
    Someone else suggested running a plane past them at full blast every few minutes until they surrendered. :D

    Tranquillise them and haul them away?

    I'm all for legitimate protest, but they are just being morons and having an inverse affect on the movement they 'support'.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,677
    edited September 2016
    @Patrick

    Even in Europe, Prague fell fully three days after VE Day:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Offensive

  • Mr. Glenn, wanting to leave and voting to stay is mad.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,824
    If Mr Vaz wanted to practice unsafe sex but keep the PR hit minimal perhaps he should have gone for an Injunction....
  • MP_SE said:
    Quite incredible line of questioning....its a private matter and the police haven't brought any charges and therefore that should be that....What utter nonsense.

    This bollocks about it being a private matter, is just that bollocks.
    You need to give reason(s) why it is not a private matter.
  • rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Oh Theresa, why did you employ him in the first place, everyone knows he's a preening bell end.

    Theresa May rebukes David Davis over warning that UK could leave the single market

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/theresa-may-rebukes-david-davis-over-warning-that-uk-could-leave/


    Bickering between May and Davis I see...

    Westminster has been given their warning by the electorate but it appears they aren't listening. The 17m may have no choice but to elect a UKIP government to get Brexit done...
    I'm sorry, but a fair number of the 52% (including me) wanted soft Brexit.
    They should have voted Remain and let the malcontent Leavers work to sweeten Cameron's 'renegotiation' until it became acceptable to them. Voting Leave for a soft Brexit was playing with fire.
    The 17m are a wide coalition, there are many Brexits. The 16m were more sure what they wanted. If it had been a 'preferendum' the result would have been different.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2016

    Patrick said:

    Not sure that really counts Sunil!

    [They] either adamantly doubted the veracity of the formal surrender due to strong dogmatic or militaristic principles, or simply were not aware of it because communications had been cut off by Allied advances including the United States island hopping campaign.

    :)
    Actually the fight I am referring to was in Manchuria. Russia fought a MASSIVE campaign to take the whole of Manchuria (plus a whole lot more) from 9th to 20 Aug 1945. Involved 3 fronts and was larger in scale than the whole European theatre of operations. They wiped out the entire Kwantung Army of Japan in less than two weeks. Basically it was a free land grab - explains why quite a few bits of Russia's far east are Russian today.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,708
    edited September 2016

    MP_SE said:
    Quite incredible line of questioning....its a private matter and the police haven't brought any charges and therefore that should be that....What utter nonsense.

    This bollocks about it being a private matter, is just that bollocks.
    You need to give reason(s) why it is not a private matter.
    We aren't allowed to discuss on here for legal reasons, but the Mirror expose made serious claims beyond having sex. Shutting it down as well he bonked some prozzies thats a private matter isn't the whole story.
  • Quite a set of Survey Monkey polls out according to 538.

    Trump +3 in Ohio, +3 Arizona.
  • rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Oh Theresa, why did you employ him in the first place, everyone knows he's a preening bell end.

    Theresa May rebukes David Davis over warning that UK could leave the single market

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/theresa-may-rebukes-david-davis-over-warning-that-uk-could-leave/


    Bickering between May and Davis I see...

    Westminster has been given their warning by the electorate but it appears they aren't listening. The 17m may have no choice but to elect a UKIP government to get Brexit done...
    I'm sorry, but a fair number of the 52% (including me) wanted soft Brexit.
    They should have voted Remain and let the malcontent Leavers work to sweeten Cameron's 'renegotiation' until it became acceptable to them. Voting Leave for a soft Brexit was playing with fire.
    Remain would have meant Brussels seeing it as the green light for ever more centralisation.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,212

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    Miss Plato, I remember reading a WWII book which had a proportion of people from various countries who died. Russia was the highest (I think it was something like 1:22, but can't be certain).

    Prewar Poland lost more than a quarter of its population in the war, including 3 million Jewish Poles.

    I believe that Belarus and Ukraine possibly lost a higher proportion on current national boundaries.
    Staggering stat, 17% or 6 million in total. For context, the UK only lost 400,000, or 0.9%.
    Some of the figures for people killed in Eastern Europe almost defy belief. Unfortunately, they are correct.

    But, none match Paraguay, in percentage terms. In the mid nineteenth century, about 70% of the Paraguayan adult male population was killed in a disastrous war. The country tacitly allowed polygamy for several generations afterwards, to restore the population.
    Why several generations?
    Demographers and historians still differ about the casualties. But, somewhere between 50% and 90% of adult males were killed. By the end of the war, adult males were outnumbered somewhere between 3-1 and 10-1 by adult women. Even with polygamy, that still left plenty of women who never married, so that it took decades to get the population back to 50/50 male/female.
  • 619619 Posts: 1,784

    Quite a set of Survey Monkey polls out according to 538.

    Trump +3 in Ohio, +3 Arizona.

    Same from below?

    Has Clinton + 1 in Texas in a large ( 5000) sample
  • rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Oh Theresa, why did you employ him in the first place, everyone knows he's a preening bell end.

    Theresa May rebukes David Davis over warning that UK could leave the single market

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/theresa-may-rebukes-david-davis-over-warning-that-uk-could-leave/


    Bickering between May and Davis I see...

    Westminster has been given their warning by the electorate but it appears they aren't listening. The 17m may have no choice but to elect a UKIP government to get Brexit done...
    I'm sorry, but a fair number of the 52% (including me) wanted soft Brexit.
    They should have voted Remain and let the malcontent Leavers work to sweeten Cameron's 'renegotiation' until it became acceptable to them. Voting Leave for a soft Brexit was playing with fire.
    The 17m are a wide coalition, there are many Brexits. The 16m were more sure what they wanted. If it had been a 'preferendum' the result would have been different.
    I don't think that's true. The 16m were split between the actually-pro-EU and the "yeah, I guess".
  • Jesus Christ, just looking at the photos of White Lives Don't Matter protest, how many f##king police does it take to remove 9 idiots?


    Where was the airport security?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,677
    edited September 2016
    Patrick said:

    Patrick said:

    Not sure that really counts Sunil!

    [They] either adamantly doubted the veracity of the formal surrender due to strong dogmatic or militaristic principles, or simply were not aware of it because communications had been cut off by Allied advances including the United States island hopping campaign.

    :)
    Actually the fight I am referring to was in Manchuria. Russia fought a MASSIVE campaign to take the whole of Manchuria (plus a whole lot more) from 9th to 20 Aug 1945. Involved 3 fronts and was larger in scale than the whole European theatre of operations. They wiped out the entire Kwantung Army of Japan in less than two weeks. Basically it was a free land grab - explains why quite a few bits of Russia's far east are Russian today.
    Actually those bits are really only south Sakhalin and the Kurile Islands. Much of the mainland Russian Far East was annexed from China a century earlier:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Aigun
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_of_Peking

    Re. WW2, Even in Europe, Prague fell fully three days after VE Day:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Offensive
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Thrak said:

    Dromedary said:

    CNN/ORC national poll, fieldwork 1-4 September, shows Trump in the lead by 1%. Trump's implied probability at Betfair looks set to surge past its previous peaks of around 30% (price 3.3).

    Do people read? I pointed out the other three polls released showing Clinton ahead by 3, 4 & 6% ahead barely a page ago.

    If people only follow RCP they get a very incomplete picture.
    I don't really care about the RCP, I got my own average daily tracking poll that's faster.

    Time for the weekly update of my average daily tracking poll:

    Hillary 45 -1
    Trump 42 nc

    Since the first update on August 1st (I've updated the past ones a bit by adding some polls I didn't use in early August for continuity reasons):

    Hillary 45 46 46.5 46.5 47 44.5
    Trump 42 42 41 40.5 41 42.5

    Trump's recovery has stalled since August 29th, Hillary's decline has also stopped on Sept.1st.
    Hillary's lead peaked at 7% on August the 15th, and had an interim low of just bellow 3% on August 31st and has drifted a bit up since then.

    So much for that immigration speech delivering victory.
  • rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Oh Theresa, why did you employ him in the first place, everyone knows he's a preening bell end.

    Theresa May rebukes David Davis over warning that UK could leave the single market

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/theresa-may-rebukes-david-davis-over-warning-that-uk-could-leave/


    Bickering between May and Davis I see...

    Westminster has been given their warning by the electorate but it appears they aren't listening. The 17m may have no choice but to elect a UKIP government to get Brexit done...
    I'm sorry, but a fair number of the 52% (including me) wanted soft Brexit.
    They should have voted Remain and let the malcontent Leavers work to sweeten Cameron's 'renegotiation' until it became acceptable to them. Voting Leave for a soft Brexit was playing with fire.
    Remain would have meant Brussels seeing it as the green light for ever more centralisation.
    Brussels could see it however it liked. The dynamics of EU integration depend far more on the views of the national governments.
  • 619 said:

    Quite a set of Survey Monkey polls out according to 538.

    Trump +3 in Ohio, +3 Arizona.

    Same from below?

    Has Clinton + 1 in Texas in a large ( 5000) sample
    Of course, with 50 polls, you'd expect 2 or 3 to be outside the margin of error. The trick is in working out which ones they are...
  • Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    Miss Plato, I remember reading a WWII book which had a proportion of people from various countries who died. Russia was the highest (I think it was something like 1:22, but can't be certain).

    Prewar Poland lost more than a quarter of its population in the war, including 3 million Jewish Poles.

    I believe that Belarus and Ukraine possibly lost a higher proportion on current national boundaries.
    Staggering stat, 17% or 6 million in total. For context, the UK only lost 400,000, or 0.9%.
    Some of the figures for people killed in Eastern Europe almost defy belief. Unfortunately, they are correct.

    But, none match Paraguay, in percentage terms. In the mid nineteenth century, about 70% of the Paraguayan adult male population was killed in a disastrous war. The country tacitly allowed polygamy for several generations afterwards, to restore the population.
    Why several generations?
    Demographers and historians still differ about the casualties. But, somewhere between 50% and 90% of adult males were killed. By the end of the war, adult males were outnumbered somewhere between 3-1 and 10-1 by adult women. Even with polygamy, that still left plenty of women who never married, so that it took decades to get the population back to 50/50 male/female.
    Charlie Sheen would have enjoyed that.
  • 619 said:

    Quite a set of Survey Monkey polls out according to 538.

    Trump +3 in Ohio, +3 Arizona.

    Same from below?

    Has Clinton + 1 in Texas in a large ( 5000) sample
    Yep, sorry, only just catching up.

    The survey seems to have been taken over a long period ( Aug 9 - 1 Sep). Gets a C- grade on 538.
  • rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Oh Theresa, why did you employ him in the first place, everyone knows he's a preening bell end.

    Theresa May rebukes David Davis over warning that UK could leave the single market

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/theresa-may-rebukes-david-davis-over-warning-that-uk-could-leave/


    Bickering between May and Davis I see...

    Westminster has been given their warning by the electorate but it appears they aren't listening. The 17m may have no choice but to elect a UKIP government to get Brexit done...
    I'm sorry, but a fair number of the 52% (including me) wanted soft Brexit.
    They should have voted Remain and let the malcontent Leavers work to sweeten Cameron's 'renegotiation' until it became acceptable to them. Voting Leave for a soft Brexit was playing with fire.
    The 17m are a wide coalition, there are many Brexits. The 16m were more sure what they wanted. If it had been a 'preferendum' the result would have been different.
    I don't think that's true. The 16m were split between the actually-pro-EU and the "yeah, I guess".
    HARD Remain = the EU Federalists
    SOFT Remain = "suck it and see"
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Patrick said:

    Patrick said:

    Not sure that really counts Sunil!

    [They] either adamantly doubted the veracity of the formal surrender due to strong dogmatic or militaristic principles, or simply were not aware of it because communications had been cut off by Allied advances including the United States island hopping campaign.

    :)
    Actually the fight I am referring to was in Manchuria. Russia fought a MASSIVE campaign to take the whole of Manchuria (plus a whole lot more) from 9th to 20 Aug 1945. Involved 3 fronts and was larger in scale than the whole European theatre of operations. They wiped out the entire Kwantung Army of Japan in less than two weeks. Basically it was a free land grab - explains why quite a few bits of Russia's far east are Russian today.
    Actually those bits are really only south Sakhalin and the Kurile Islands. Much of the mainland Russian Far East was annexed from China a century earlier:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Aigun
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_of_Peking

    Re. WW2, Even in Europe, Prague fell fully three days after VE Day:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Offensive
    The mistake London City Airport made was calling the police before they used their own security to remove the protesters 'for their own safety'
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    619 said:

    Quite a set of Survey Monkey polls out according to 538.

    Trump +3 in Ohio, +3 Arizona.

    Same from below?

    Has Clinton + 1 in Texas in a large ( 5000) sample
    Of course, with 50 polls, you'd expect 2 or 3 to be outside the margin of error. The trick is in working out which ones they are...
    I can name them, since we had recent polls in the same states that say otherwise:

    Texas and Mississippi are as Detective Monk would say "this is wrong, this is very wrong".

    Michigan and Wisconsin is on the maybe but only because Reuters has found a similar picture there.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    MP_SE said:
    Quite incredible line of questioning....its a private matter and the police haven't brought any charges and therefore that should be that....What utter nonsense.

    This bollocks about it being a private matter, is just that bollocks.
    You need to give reason(s) why it is not a private matter.
    We aren't allowed to discuss on here for legal reasons, but the Mirror expose made serious claims beyond having sex. Shutting it down as well he bonked some prozzies thats a private matter isn't the whole story.
    Once the dam bursts, the flood begins.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,136
    MattW said:

    If Mr Vaz wanted to practice unsafe sex but keep the PR hit minimal perhaps he should have gone for an Injunction....

    I think the papers know how to avoid those now, publish before you ask for a comment....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,891
    Speedy said:

    Thrak said:

    Dromedary said:

    CNN/ORC national poll, fieldwork 1-4 September, shows Trump in the lead by 1%. Trump's implied probability at Betfair looks set to surge past its previous peaks of around 30% (price 3.3).

    Do people read? I pointed out the other three polls released showing Clinton ahead by 3, 4 & 6% ahead barely a page ago.

    If people only follow RCP they get a very incomplete picture.
    I don't really care about the RCP, I got my own average daily tracking poll that's faster.

    Time for the weekly update of my average daily tracking poll:

    Hillary 45 -1
    Trump 42 nc

    Since the first update on August 1st (I've updated the past ones a bit by adding some polls I didn't use in early August for continuity reasons):

    Hillary 45 46 46.5 46.5 47 44.5
    Trump 42 42 41 40.5 41 42.5

    Trump's recovery has stalled since August 29th, Hillary's decline has also stopped on Sept.1st.
    Hillary's lead peaked at 7% on August the 15th, and had an interim low of just bellow 3% on August 31st and has drifted a bit up since then.

    So much for that immigration speech delivering victory.
    They don't call you speedy for nothing!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,824
    Sandpit said:

    ‘White people need to take responsibility... they are privileged through racism’: Black Lives Matter issues inflammatory Twitter statement as it confirms all NINE activists who brought chaos London City Airport are white

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3775517/Protesters-storm-runway-London-City-Airport-bringing-flights-standstill-stranding-thousands-passengers.html

    White Power...no shit that not it....White Solidarity....

    Come on Met Police, make an example of these jumped-up middle class idiots or they'll keep doing this.

    Charge them with endangering aircraft, haul them in front of a magistrate in the morning and then remanded to see a judge and jury a few months down the line. That will give them some thinking time to decide if it was all worth it.
    The airport need to take civil action against the org and the individuals for recovery of losses.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424

    619 said:

    Quite a set of Survey Monkey polls out according to 538.

    Trump +3 in Ohio, +3 Arizona.

    Same from below?

    Has Clinton + 1 in Texas in a large ( 5000) sample
    Yep, sorry, only just catching up.

    The survey seems to have been taken over a long period ( Aug 9 - 1 Sep). Gets a C- grade on 538.
    Why are the US polls so inconsistent? We see polls carried out over a month, polls headlining with tiny state subsamples, polls with no data tables etc.

    Who is commissioning them, is it the TV networks, 'cos they don't seem to be getting much value for money?
  • philiph said:

    Patrick said:

    Patrick said:

    Not sure that really counts Sunil!

    [They] either adamantly doubted the veracity of the formal surrender due to strong dogmatic or militaristic principles, or simply were not aware of it because communications had been cut off by Allied advances including the United States island hopping campaign.

    :)
    Actually the fight I am referring to was in Manchuria. Russia fought a MASSIVE campaign to take the whole of Manchuria (plus a whole lot more) from 9th to 20 Aug 1945. Involved 3 fronts and was larger in scale than the whole European theatre of operations. They wiped out the entire Kwantung Army of Japan in less than two weeks. Basically it was a free land grab - explains why quite a few bits of Russia's far east are Russian today.
    Actually those bits are really only south Sakhalin and the Kurile Islands. Much of the mainland Russian Far East was annexed from China a century earlier:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Aigun
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_of_Peking

    Re. WW2, Even in Europe, Prague fell fully three days after VE Day:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Offensive
    The mistake London City Airport made was calling the police before they used their own security to remove the protesters 'for their own safety'
    Not sure if LCY was up and running by VE Day :lol:
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited September 2016
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    ‘White people need to take responsibility... they are privileged through racism’: Black Lives Matter issues inflammatory Twitter statement as it confirms all NINE activists who brought chaos London City Airport are white

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3775517/Protesters-storm-runway-London-City-Airport-bringing-flights-standstill-stranding-thousands-passengers.html

    White Power...no shit that not it....White Solidarity....

    Come on Met Police, make an example of these jumped-up middle class idiots or they'll keep doing this.

    Charge them with endangering aircraft, haul them in front of a magistrate in the morning and then remanded to see a judge and jury a few months down the line. That will give them some thinking time to decide if it was all worth it.
    The airport need to take civil action against the org and the individuals for recovery of losses.
    Indeed, more than 120 flights were delayed or cancelled, that adds up to a pretty penny if this matter is pursued through the courts.
  • rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Oh Theresa, why did you employ him in the first place, everyone knows he's a preening bell end.

    Theresa May rebukes David Davis over warning that UK could leave the single market

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/theresa-may-rebukes-david-davis-over-warning-that-uk-could-leave/


    Bickering between May and Davis I see...

    Westminster has been given their warning by the electorate but it appears they aren't listening. The 17m may have no choice but to elect a UKIP government to get Brexit done...
    I'm sorry, but a fair number of the 52% (including me) wanted soft Brexit.
    They should have voted Remain and let the malcontent Leavers work to sweeten Cameron's 'renegotiation' until it became acceptable to them. Voting Leave for a soft Brexit was playing with fire.
    Remain would have meant Brussels seeing it as the green light for ever more centralisation.
    Brussels could see it however it liked. The dynamics of EU integration depend far more on the views of the national governments.
    And every time our government tried to resist a power grab, they'd have been bullied with "your people voted to be in".
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,212

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    Miss Plato, I remember reading a WWII book which had a proportion of people from various countries who died. Russia was the highest (I think it was something like 1:22, but can't be certain).

    Prewar Poland lost more than a quarter of its population in the war, including 3 million Jewish Poles.

    I believe that Belarus and Ukraine possibly lost a higher proportion on current national boundaries.
    Staggering stat, 17% or 6 million in total. For context, the UK only lost 400,000, or 0.9%.
    Some of the figures for people killed in Eastern Europe almost defy belief. Unfortunately, they are correct.

    But, none match Paraguay, in percentage terms. In the mid nineteenth century, about 70% of the Paraguayan adult male population was killed in a disastrous war. The country tacitly allowed polygamy for several generations afterwards, to restore the population.
    Why several generations?
    Demographers and historians still differ about the casualties. But, somewhere between 50% and 90% of adult males were killed. By the end of the war, adult males were outnumbered somewhere between 3-1 and 10-1 by adult women. Even with polygamy, that still left plenty of women who never married, so that it took decades to get the population back to 50/50 male/female.
    Charlie Sheen would have enjoyed that.
    And Homer Simpson. He once fantasised about being married to two women. Not a sexual fantasy, but a fantasy about having twice as much housework done for him.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    AndyJS said:

    FPT:

    Clinton's average national lead down to 3.3 points. A bit close for comfort from her point of view:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

    The CNN/ORC Poll giving Trump +1 has a fairly anomalous Republican/Democract/Independents split.

    Lets unskew those polls!
    Anyone would think that the US media wants to skew polls to engineer a "too close to call" meme....
    ORC's demographic breakdowns are just all over the place, one poll they'll be spot on, the next they'll be only sampling Libertarian left handed pot smokers from Montana.
  • The Sunil on Sunday headline from early November 2016:

    "Hillary's lost it!"
  • Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    Miss Plato, I remember reading a WWII book which had a proportion of people from various countries who died. Russia was the highest (I think it was something like 1:22, but can't be certain).

    Prewar Poland lost more than a quarter of its population in the war, including 3 million Jewish Poles.

    I believe that Belarus and Ukraine possibly lost a higher proportion on current national boundaries.
    Staggering stat, 17% or 6 million in total. For context, the UK only lost 400,000, or 0.9%.
    Some of the figures for people killed in Eastern Europe almost defy belief. Unfortunately, they are correct.

    But, none match Paraguay, in percentage terms. In the mid nineteenth century, about 70% of the Paraguayan adult male population was killed in a disastrous war. The country tacitly allowed polygamy for several generations afterwards, to restore the population.
    Why several generations?
    Demographers and historians still differ about the casualties. But, somewhere between 50% and 90% of adult males were killed. By the end of the war, adult males were outnumbered somewhere between 3-1 and 10-1 by adult women. Even with polygamy, that still left plenty of women who never married, so that it took decades to get the population back to 50/50 male/female.
    Charlie Sheen would have enjoyed that.
    And Homer Simpson. He once fantasised about being married to two women. Not a sexual fantasy, but a fantasy about having twice as much housework done for him.
    Well it was RT, but they recently showed a docu about an Indian bloke living in rural Rajasthan who married THREE women for similar reasons.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    ‘White people need to take responsibility... they are privileged through racism’: Black Lives Matter issues inflammatory Twitter statement as it confirms all NINE activists who brought chaos London City Airport are white

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3775517/Protesters-storm-runway-London-City-Airport-bringing-flights-standstill-stranding-thousands-passengers.html

    White Power...no shit that not it....White Solidarity....

    Come on Met Police, make an example of these jumped-up middle class idiots or they'll keep doing this.

    Charge them with endangering aircraft, haul them in front of a magistrate in the morning and then remanded to see a judge and jury a few months down the line. That will give them some thinking time to decide if it was all worth it.
    The airport need to take civil action against the org and the individuals for recovery of losses.
    Indeed, more than 120 flights were delayed or cancelled, that adds up to a pretty penny if this matter is pursued through the courts.
    Unlikely they'll have much to lose though, probably young rich kids or anarchists.

    Better to lock them up for a couple of years pour encourager les autures. I'll be disappointed in the CPS if they're not charged with endangering aircraft or aerodrome - maximum penalty life imprisonment.
  • rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Oh Theresa, why did you employ him in the first place, everyone knows he's a preening bell end.

    Theresa May rebukes David Davis over warning that UK could leave the single market

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/theresa-may-rebukes-david-davis-over-warning-that-uk-could-leave/


    Bickering between May and Davis I see...

    Westminster has been given their warning by the electorate but it appears they aren't listening. The 17m may have no choice but to elect a UKIP government to get Brexit done...
    I'm sorry, but a fair number of the 52% (including me) wanted soft Brexit.
    They should have voted Remain and let the malcontent Leavers work to sweeten Cameron's 'renegotiation' until it became acceptable to them. Voting Leave for a soft Brexit was playing with fire.
    Remain would have meant Brussels seeing it as the green light for ever more centralisation.
    Brussels could see it however it liked. The dynamics of EU integration depend far more on the views of the national governments.
    And every time our government tried to resist a power grab, they'd have been bullied with "your people voted to be in".
    You don't seem to have a high opinion of UK government...

    The obvious riposte to any such comment is, "And you'll be putting this new suggestion to your people I presume?"
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,212

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    Miss Plato, I remember reading a WWII book which had a proportion of people from various countries who died. Russia was the highest (I think it was something like 1:22, but can't be certain).

    Prewar Poland lost more than a quarter of its population in the war, including 3 million Jewish Poles.

    I believe that Belarus and Ukraine possibly lost a higher proportion on current national boundaries.
    Staggering stat, 17% or 6 million in total. For context, the UK only lost 400,000, or 0.9%.
    Some of the figures for people killed in Eastern Europe almost defy belief. Unfortunately, they are correct.

    But, none match Paraguay, in percentage terms. In the mid nineteenth century, about 70% of the Paraguayan adult male population was killed in a disastrous war. The country tacitly allowed polygamy for several generations afterwards, to restore the population.
    Why several generations?
    Demographers and historians still differ about the casualties. But, somewhere between 50% and 90% of adult males were killed. By the end of the war, adult males were outnumbered somewhere between 3-1 and 10-1 by adult women. Even with polygamy, that still left plenty of women who never married, so that it took decades to get the population back to 50/50 male/female.
    Charlie Sheen would have enjoyed that.
    And Homer Simpson. He once fantasised about being married to two women. Not a sexual fantasy, but a fantasy about having twice as much housework done for him.
    Well it was RT, but they recently showed a docu about an Indian bloke living in rural Rajasthan who married THREE women for similar reasons.
    I can see the attraction of polygamy (if you're a man). Not so much fun for the women, I should think.
  • rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Oh Theresa, why did you employ him in the first place, everyone knows he's a preening bell end.

    Theresa May rebukes David Davis over warning that UK could leave the single market

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/theresa-may-rebukes-david-davis-over-warning-that-uk-could-leave/


    Bickering between May and Davis I see...

    Westminster has been given their warning by the electorate but it appears they aren't listening. The 17m may have no choice but to elect a UKIP government to get Brexit done...
    I'm sorry, but a fair number of the 52% (including me) wanted soft Brexit.
    They should have voted Remain and let the malcontent Leavers work to sweeten Cameron's 'renegotiation' until it became acceptable to them. Voting Leave for a soft Brexit was playing with fire.
    Remain would have meant Brussels seeing it as the green light for ever more centralisation.
    Brussels could see it however it liked. The dynamics of EU integration depend far more on the views of the national governments.
    And every time our government tried to resist a power grab, they'd have been bullied with "your people voted to be in".
    You don't seem to have a high opinion of UK government...

    The obvious riposte to any such comment is, "And you'll be putting this new suggestion to your people I presume?"
    Having observed the way that successive governments have avoided British public opinion on Europe, I would think that was justified.

    In would have meant All The Way In, and would have had to.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    RobD said:

    Speedy said:

    Thrak said:

    Dromedary said:

    CNN/ORC national poll, fieldwork 1-4 September, shows Trump in the lead by 1%. Trump's implied probability at Betfair looks set to surge past its previous peaks of around 30% (price 3.3).

    Do people read? I pointed out the other three polls released showing Clinton ahead by 3, 4 & 6% ahead barely a page ago.

    If people only follow RCP they get a very incomplete picture.
    I don't really care about the RCP, I got my own average daily tracking poll that's faster.

    Time for the weekly update of my average daily tracking poll:

    Hillary 45 -1
    Trump 42 nc

    Since the first update on August 1st (I've updated the past ones a bit by adding some polls I didn't use in early August for continuity reasons):

    Hillary 45 46 46.5 46.5 47 44.5
    Trump 42 42 41 40.5 41 42.5

    Trump's recovery has stalled since August 29th, Hillary's decline has also stopped on Sept.1st.
    Hillary's lead peaked at 7% on August the 15th, and had an interim low of just bellow 3% on August 31st and has drifted a bit up since then.

    So much for that immigration speech delivering victory.
    They don't call you speedy for nothing!
    True, I'm good at pointing problems fast.

    Consider this metric:

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/189299/presidential-election-2016-key-indicators.aspx?g_source=ELECTION_2016&g_medium=topic&g_campaign=tiles

    Trump's popularity actually fell after his immigration speech among republicans, Hillary meanwhile is now hitting her all time low.

    Hillary is still winning, even if she's losing some support, because Trump is as unpopular as George W. Bush in 2008.

    Trump screaming in Phoenix set him back 10 days, you win the general election by being softly softly not screamy screamy.
  • Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    Miss Plato, I remember reading a WWII book which had a proportion of people from various countries who died. Russia was the highest (I think it was something like 1:22, but can't be certain).

    Prewar Poland lost more than a quarter of its population in the war, including 3 million Jewish Poles.

    I believe that Belarus and Ukraine possibly lost a higher proportion on current national boundaries.
    Staggering stat, 17% or 6 million in total. For context, the UK only lost 400,000, or 0.9%.
    Some of the figures for people killed in Eastern Europe almost defy belief. Unfortunately, they are correct.

    But, none match Paraguay, in percentage terms. In the mid nineteenth century, about 70% of the Paraguayan adult male population was killed in a disastrous war. The country tacitly allowed polygamy for several generations afterwards, to restore the population.
    Why several generations?
    Demographers and historians still differ about the casualties. But, somewhere between 50% and 90% of adult males were killed. By the end of the war, adult males were outnumbered somewhere between 3-1 and 10-1 by adult women. Even with polygamy, that still left plenty of women who never married, so that it took decades to get the population back to 50/50 male/female.
    Charlie Sheen would have enjoyed that.
    And Homer Simpson. He once fantasised about being married to two women. Not a sexual fantasy, but a fantasy about having twice as much housework done for him.
    Well it was RT, but they recently showed a docu about an Indian bloke living in rural Rajasthan who married THREE women for similar reasons.
    I can see the attraction of polygamy (if you're a man). Not so much fun for the women, I should think.
    Gone into history now but I do vaguely remember when I was very young a couple of 'Great Aunties' who were spinster sisters who lived together their whole lives until they passed.

    Basically, not enough men to go round in Britain post WWI. But too strong a Christian straight-laced culture for anything but the honorable thing.
  • The Parliamentary Labour Party has approved a motion in favour of re-introducing elections to the shadow cabinet. The motion asks Labour's ruling National Executive Committee - which must approve any changes - to bring forward a rule change at this year's annual conference.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,212

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    Miss Plato, I remember reading a WWII book which had a proportion of people from various countries who died. Russia was the highest (I think it was something like 1:22, but can't be certain).

    Prewar Poland lost more than a quarter of its population in the war, including 3 million Jewish Poles.

    I believe that Belarus and Ukraine possibly lost a higher proportion on current national boundaries.
    Staggering stat, 17% or 6 million in total. For context, the UK only lost 400,000, or 0.9%.
    Some of the figures for people killed in Eastern Europe almost defy belief. Unfortunately, they are correct.

    But, none match Paraguay, in percentage terms. In the mid nineteenth century, about 70% of the Paraguayan adult male population was killed in a disastrous war. The country tacitly allowed polygamy for several generations afterwards, to restore the population.
    Why several generations?
    Demographers and historians still differ about the casualties. But, somewhere between 50% and 90% of adult males were killed. By the end of the war, adult males were outnumbered somewhere between 3-1 and 10-1 by adult women. Even with polygamy, that still left plenty of women who never married, so that it took decades to get the population back to 50/50 male/female.
    Charlie Sheen would have enjoyed that.
    And Homer Simpson. He once fantasised about being married to two women. Not a sexual fantasy, but a fantasy about having twice as much housework done for him.
    Well it was RT, but they recently showed a docu about an Indian bloke living in rural Rajasthan who married THREE women for similar reasons.
    I can see the attraction of polygamy (if you're a man). Not so much fun for the women, I should think.
    Gone into history now but I do vaguely remember when I was very young a couple of 'Great Aunties' who were spinster sisters who lived together their whole lives until they passed.

    Basically, not enough men to go round in Britain post WWI. But too strong a Christian straight-laced culture for anything but the honorable thing.
    I think polygamy was really a response to societies where sudden violent deaths were common among young men, and women (often with infant children) had to find husbands to survive (hence, the whole business in the Old Testament about having to marry your brother's widow).
  • ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    edited September 2016
    To reiterate, Gary Johnson is deserving of some analysis. Thise Wapo polls show him getting figures in Alaska, Utah and New Mexico that may, if repeated and improved, start some momentum in those states.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,708
    edited September 2016
    Three 18-year-old Afghan migrants are jailed for gang-raping another boy at an Austrian asylum centre. Sentenced to terms in jail ranging from two to three-and-a-half years each.

    The sexual abuse took place in a cave just outside the facility after the three threatened they would kill the boy with a sharp piece of glass unless he went with them.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3776230/Three-18-year-old-Afghan-migrants-jailed-gang-raping-boy-Austrian-asylum-centre.html

    Seem like very short sentences given the crimes. I presume their asylum claim will be unaffected...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,809
    edited September 2016
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    ‘White people need to take responsibility... they are privileged through racism’: Black Lives Matter issues inflammatory Twitter statement as it confirms all NINE activists who brought chaos London City Airport are white

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3775517/Protesters-storm-runway-London-City-Airport-bringing-flights-standstill-stranding-thousands-passengers.html

    White Power...no shit that not it....White Solidarity....

    Come on Met Police, make an example of these jumped-up middle class idiots or they'll keep doing this.

    Charge them with endangering aircraft, haul them in front of a magistrate in the morning and then remanded to see a judge and jury a few months down the line. That will give them some thinking time to decide if it was all worth it.
    The airport need to take civil action against the org and the individuals for recovery of losses.
    Indeed, more than 120 flights were delayed or cancelled, that adds up to a pretty penny if this matter is pursued through the courts.
    Unlikely they'll have much to lose though, probably young rich kids or anarchists.

    Better to lock them up for a couple of years pour encourager les autures. I'll be disappointed in the CPS if they're not charged with endangering aircraft or aerodrome - maximum penalty life imprisonment.
    Don't get me wrong I'd have been spitting feathers if I had been waiting for a flight but there has to be some allowance for civil disobedience.

    Trouble for them was that the message was convoluted to say the least. Stop flying to save Eritrea...Eritrea is full of black people..our organisation is called Black Lives Matter which you may otherwise have noticed on account of the large number of black people killed by the police in the US...er...

    Not exactly succinct.
  • @Sean Fear - I seem to recall reading somewhere that it was notoriously violent in the Stone Age.

    Violence was the leading cause of death of all men and you'd be lucky to make it to 35, even if you didn't succumb to disease, famine or pestilence.
  • TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    ‘White people need to take responsibility... they are privileged through racism’: Black Lives Matter issues inflammatory Twitter statement as it confirms all NINE activists who brought chaos London City Airport are white

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3775517/Protesters-storm-runway-London-City-Airport-bringing-flights-standstill-stranding-thousands-passengers.html

    White Power...no shit that not it....White Solidarity....

    Come on Met Police, make an example of these jumped-up middle class idiots or they'll keep doing this.

    Charge them with endangering aircraft, haul them in front of a magistrate in the morning and then remanded to see a judge and jury a few months down the line. That will give them some thinking time to decide if it was all worth it.
    The airport need to take civil action against the org and the individuals for recovery of losses.
    Indeed, more than 120 flights were delayed or cancelled, that adds up to a pretty penny if this matter is pursued through the courts.
    Unlikely they'll have much to lose though, probably young rich kids or anarchists.

    Better to lock them up for a couple of years pour encourager les autures. I'll be disappointed in the CPS if they're not charged with endangering aircraft or aerodrome - maximum penalty life imprisonment.
    Don't get me wrong I'd have been spitting feathers if I had been waiting for a flight but there has to be some allowance for civil disobedience.

    Trouble for them was that the message was convoluted to say the least. Stop flying to save Eritrea...Eritrea is full of black people..our organisation is called Black Lives Matter which you may otherwise have noticed on account of the large number of black people killed by the police in the US...er...

    Not exactly succinct.
    Filipino Lives Matter!
  • Mr. Urquhart, it's a despicably short sentence.

    I wonder if that plays into the presidential election.

    The mainstream of politics ignoring and playing down real concerns of ordinary people is forcing the electorate to put up with it unhappily or make a leap to parties beyond the mainstream.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114

    The Parliamentary Labour Party has approved a motion in favour of re-introducing elections to the shadow cabinet. The motion asks Labour's ruling National Executive Committee - which must approve any changes - to bring forward a rule change at this year's annual conference.

    Lady Nugee must be relieved - it might mean she can go back to doing just 1 job...
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @Topping

    "... there has to be some allowance for civil disobedience."

    Really? Which laws would you say it is OK to break if someone is doing so for a political purpose?
  • TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    ‘White people need to take responsibility... they are privileged through racism’: Black Lives Matter issues inflammatory Twitter statement as it confirms all NINE activists who brought chaos London City Airport are white

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3775517/Protesters-storm-runway-London-City-Airport-bringing-flights-standstill-stranding-thousands-passengers.html

    White Power...no shit that not it....White Solidarity....

    Come on Met Police, make an example of these jumped-up middle class idiots or they'll keep doing this.

    Charge them with endangering aircraft, haul them in front of a magistrate in the morning and then remanded to see a judge and jury a few months down the line. That will give them some thinking time to decide if it was all worth it.
    The airport need to take civil action against the org and the individuals for recovery of losses.
    Indeed, more than 120 flights were delayed or cancelled, that adds up to a pretty penny if this matter is pursued through the courts.
    Unlikely they'll have much to lose though, probably young rich kids or anarchists.

    Better to lock them up for a couple of years pour encourager les autures. I'll be disappointed in the CPS if they're not charged with endangering aircraft or aerodrome - maximum penalty life imprisonment.
    Don't get me wrong I'd have been spitting feathers if I had been waiting for a flight but there has to be some allowance for civil disobedience.

    Trouble for them was that the message was convoluted to say the least. Stop flying to save Eritrea...Eritrea is full of black people..our organisation is called Black Lives Matter which you may otherwise have noticed on account of the large number of black people killed by the police in the US...er...

    Not exactly succinct.
    Disrupting international air travel to protest is an extreme measure, not a first resort.

    Like the Rhodesmustfall loons this lot were more masturbating monkey than altruistic crusaders for the poor.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,809

    @Topping

    "... there has to be some allowance for civil disobedience."

    Really? Which laws would you say it is OK to break if someone is doing so for a political purpose?

    spoiling your census form because women don't have a vote?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,809

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    ‘White people need to take responsibility... they are privileged through racism’: Black Lives Matter issues inflammatory Twitter statement as it confirms all NINE activists who brought chaos London City Airport are white

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3775517/Protesters-storm-runway-London-City-Airport-bringing-flights-standstill-stranding-thousands-passengers.html

    White Power...no shit that not it....White Solidarity....

    Come on Met Police, make an example of these jumped-up middle class idiots or they'll keep doing this.

    Charge them with endangering aircraft, haul them in front of a magistrate in the morning and then remanded to see a judge and jury a few months down the line. That will give them some thinking time to decide if it was all worth it.
    The airport need to take civil action against the org and the individuals for recovery of losses.
    Indeed, more than 120 flights were delayed or cancelled, that adds up to a pretty penny if this matter is pursued through the courts.
    Unlikely they'll have much to lose though, probably young rich kids or anarchists.

    Better to lock them up for a couple of years pour encourager les autures. I'll be disappointed in the CPS if they're not charged with endangering aircraft or aerodrome - maximum penalty life imprisonment.
    Don't get me wrong I'd have been spitting feathers if I had been waiting for a flight but there has to be some allowance for civil disobedience.

    Trouble for them was that the message was convoluted to say the least. Stop flying to save Eritrea...Eritrea is full of black people..our organisation is called Black Lives Matter which you may otherwise have noticed on account of the large number of black people killed by the police in the US...er...

    Not exactly succinct.
    Disrupting international air travel to protest is an extreme measure, not a first resort.

    Like the Rhodesmustfall loons this lot were more masturbating monkey than altruistic crusaders for the poor.
    oh god yes. Comically so. But there is a long history of civil disobedience in this country and I don't suppose we get to choose the topics or the participants.
  • @Topping

    "... there has to be some allowance for civil disobedience."

    Really? Which laws would you say it is OK to break if someone is doing so for a political purpose?

    Gandhi making salt in 1930 :)
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    TOPPING said:

    @Topping

    "... there has to be some allowance for civil disobedience."

    Really? Which laws would you say it is OK to break if someone is doing so for a political purpose?

    spoiling your census form because women don't have a vote?
    Women do have the vote, Mr. Topping. So do please try again. You are the one who said there should be allowances for people who want to break the law from a political motive. I am just trying to establish what boundaries you would put on your idea, if any?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,983
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    Miss Plato, I remember reading a WWII book which had a proportion of people from various countries who died. Russia was the highest (I think it was something like 1:22, but can't be certain).

    Prewar Poland lost more than a quarter of its population in the war, including 3 million Jewish Poles.

    I believe that Belarus and Ukraine possibly lost a higher proportion on current national boundaries.
    Staggering stat, 17% or 6 million in total. For context, the UK only lost 400,000, or 0.9%.
    Some of the figures for people killed in Eastern Europe almost defy belief. Unfortunately, they are correct.

    But, none match Paraguay, in percentage terms. In the mid nineteenth century, about 70% of the Paraguayan adult male population was killed in a disastrous war. The country tacitly allowed polygamy for several generations afterwards, to restore the population.
    Why several generations?
    Demographers and historians still differ about the casualties. But, somewhere between 50% and 90% of adult males were killed. By the end of the war, adult males were outnumbered somewhere between 3-1 and 10-1 by adult women. Even with polygamy, that still left plenty of women who never married, so that it took decades to get the population back to 50/50 male/female.
    Charlie Sheen would have enjoyed that.
    And Homer Simpson. He once fantasised about being married to two women. Not a sexual fantasy, but a fantasy about having twice as much housework done for him.
    Well it was RT, but they recently showed a docu about an Indian bloke living in rural Rajasthan who married THREE women for similar reasons.
    I can see the attraction of polygamy (if you're a man). Not so much fun for the women, I should think.
    Oh I don't know, only one third of the number of socks to wash and headaches to feign.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    ‘White people need to take responsibility... they are privileged through racism’: Black Lives Matter issues inflammatory Twitter statement as it confirms all NINE activists who brought chaos London City Airport are white

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3775517/Protesters-storm-runway-London-City-Airport-bringing-flights-standstill-stranding-thousands-passengers.html

    White Power...no shit that not it....White Solidarity....

    Come on Met Police, make an example of these jumped-up middle class idiots or they'll keep doing this.

    Charge them with endangering aircraft, haul them in front of a magistrate in the morning and then remanded to see a judge and jury a few months down the line. That will give them some thinking time to decide if it was all worth it.
    The airport need to take civil action against the org and the individuals for recovery of losses.
    Indeed, more than 120 flights were delayed or cancelled, that adds up to a pretty penny if this matter is pursued through the courts.
    What happened the last time McDonalds tried that?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLibel_case
  • Thrak said:

    To reiterate, Gary Johnson is deserving of some analysis. Thise Wapo polls show him getting figures in Alaska, Utah and New Mexico that may, if repeated and improved, start some momentum in those states.

    New Mexico has only twice since 1972 failed to pick the winner so it's a good bellwether.

    The only way for Johnson to break through nationally is for Clinton's support to collapse. It looks unlikely that he will make the cut off for the debates and it will be tough for him to make any headway after that.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited September 2016
    Sean_F said:



    I think polygamy was really a response to societies where sudden violent deaths were common among young men, and women (often with infant children) had to find husbands to survive (hence, the whole business in the Old Testament about having to marry your brother's widow).

    My great-grandfather married his first cousin's widow (and took on 2 young children)
  • Charles said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    ‘White people need to take responsibility... they are privileged through racism’: Black Lives Matter issues inflammatory Twitter statement as it confirms all NINE activists who brought chaos London City Airport are white

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3775517/Protesters-storm-runway-London-City-Airport-bringing-flights-standstill-stranding-thousands-passengers.html

    White Power...no shit that not it....White Solidarity....

    Come on Met Police, make an example of these jumped-up middle class idiots or they'll keep doing this.

    Charge them with endangering aircraft, haul them in front of a magistrate in the morning and then remanded to see a judge and jury a few months down the line. That will give them some thinking time to decide if it was all worth it.
    The airport need to take civil action against the org and the individuals for recovery of losses.
    Indeed, more than 120 flights were delayed or cancelled, that adds up to a pretty penny if this matter is pursued through the courts.
    What happened the last time McDonalds tried that?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLibel_case

    That was libel; always difficult. Not quite the same as actual obstruction causing actual costs.

  • ThrakThrak Posts: 494

    Thrak said:

    To reiterate, Gary Johnson is deserving of some analysis. Thise Wapo polls show him getting figures in Alaska, Utah and New Mexico that may, if repeated and improved, start some momentum in those states.

    New Mexico has only twice since 1972 failed to pick the winner so it's a good bellwether.

    The only way for Johnson to break through nationally is for Clinton's support to collapse. It looks unlikely that he will make the cut off for the debates and it will be tough for him to make any headway after that.
    Which is why I think that in most states beyond these few his support will wither (and strangely his addition seems to actually help Trump). All he needs is a poll or two with him with a single figure gap (NM and UT most likely) and he can blitz them and present himself as a broker for the electoral college. States like these may well think that a great deal for them to hold that power.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    ‘White people need to take responsibility... they are privileged through racism’: Black Lives Matter issues inflammatory Twitter statement as it confirms all NINE activists who brought chaos London City Airport are white

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3775517/Protesters-storm-runway-London-City-Airport-bringing-flights-standstill-stranding-thousands-passengers.html

    White Power...no shit that not it....White Solidarity....

    Come on Met Police, make an example of these jumped-up middle class idiots or they'll keep doing this.

    Charge them with endangering aircraft, haul them in front of a magistrate in the morning and then remanded to see a judge and jury a few months down the line. That will give them some thinking time to decide if it was all worth it.
    The airport need to take civil action against the org and the individuals for recovery of losses.
    Indeed, more than 120 flights were delayed or cancelled, that adds up to a pretty penny if this matter is pursued through the courts.
    What happened the last time McDonalds tried that?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLibel_case

    That was libel; always difficult. Not quite the same as actual obstruction causing actual costs.

    Fundamentally it was a big guy picking on a little guy
This discussion has been closed.