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Bloody hell, this labour husting is utter turgid.0
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"Mr Roth said that, without free movement, there would not be full access to the single market."Moses_ said:
Doesn't get more straightforward than that.0 -
Mr. Topping, who is this Roth chap, beyond being a German member of the Bundestag?
Mr. Slackbladder, lies, you Blairite wrecker! The fiery enthusiasm of the proletariat for their tribune is undiminished by the scorn of capitalist pigdogs!
Edited extra bit: ahem, wrote 'German MP' at first. Obviously an MdB is a German.0 -
If that's going to be their attitude, then we can manage just fine with WTO rules. German carmakers might want to disagree with the Eurocrats though.logical_song said:
But Michael Roth warned the UK could not 'cherry pick' their statusFrancisUrquhart said:
Back of the queue.....Moses_ said:
He repeated no single market access without free movement of people
Brexit negotiations should be over in time for 2019 MEP elections
2019 is a good exit date though, which suggests Art. 50 declaration in Q1 or Q2 next year.0 -
Oh god they had remade Ben-Hur...with Morgan Freeman et al.0
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Yes, agree with your last paragraph. Rogues are often good company!John_M said:
I take your point (and have used that quote many times). However, Boris doesn't have to associate with all the 'haters' (to use my daughter's term). He's certainly Marmite, but those that like him, really like him.OldKingCole said:
I refer you to Othello: Act 3, scene 3, 155–161John_M said:
I'm sure his £135,527 salary + other engagements will enable him to struggle on through that vale of tears.HYUFD said:
His political gameplaying has cost him certainlylogical_song said:
Boris was playing student politics with his fellow Bullingdon club member. In his own words he's 'not an outer' and didn't expect to win. He deserves to be unpopular.HYUFD said:Ironically it was the referendum that killed Boris in the popularity stakes, Leave won but by a narrow enough margin to leave many bitter Remainers who will never forgive him for leading the Leave campaign. By contrast May remaining effectively neutral meant she was best placed to appeal to both the Leave and Remain camps. Boris still has an important role as Foreign Secretary now nonetheless and should focus on that.
Good name in man and woman, dear my lord,
Is the immediate jewel of their souls.
Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing;
'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands;
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him,
And makes me poor indeed.
And, I suggest, many, many more people see Boris as untrustworthy.
Personally, while I'd count my fingers after shaking hands, I would love to have a few drinks with BoJo. It would be entertaining.0 -
Mr. Urquhart, saw an ad for that on Youtube the other day. Looks good, if you're a CGI artist. Otherwise, not sure what the point is.0
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He's Germany's Minister for Europe.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Topping, who is this Roth chap, beyond being a German member of the Bundestag?
Mr. Slackbladder, lies, you Blairite wrecker! The fiery enthusiasm of the proletariat for their tribune is undiminished by the scorn of capitalist pigdogs!
Edited extra bit: ahem, wrote 'German MP' at first. Obviously an MdB is a German.
So quite an important person when it comes to sorting out Brexit.0 -
Mr. Eagles, significant, yes, but one voice amongst many.0
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When Dan Hannan and the Mail thought he was really important and influential last night, until they actually read/heard what he had said.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, significant, yes, but one voice amongst many.
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Bloody Jocks..
'Olympic Cycling Star Skinner Tells Leave.EU: Don't Use My Picture'
http://tinyurl.com/hb94qy70 -
I spent a half day accompanying Boris, both in public and behind the scenes. I think it's fair to say that he is a big picture man, and very reliant upon his advisers. He does however do the front man bit brilliantly.OldKingCole said:
Yes, agree with your last paragraph. Rogues are often good company!John_M said:
I take your point (and have used that quote many times). However, Boris doesn't have to associate with all the 'haters' (to use my daughter's term). He's certainly Marmite, but those that like him, really like him.OldKingCole said:
I refer you to Othello: Act 3, scene 3, 155–161John_M said:
I'm sure his £135,527 salary + other engagements will enable him to struggle on through that vale of tears.HYUFD said:
His political gameplaying has cost him certainlylogical_song said:
Boris was playing student politics with his fellow Bullingdon club member. In his own words he's 'not an outer' and didn't expect to win. He deserves to be unpopular.HYUFD said:Ironically it was the referendum that killed Boris in the popularity stakes, Leave won but by a narrow enough margin to leave many bitter Remainers who will never forgive him for leading the Leave campaign. By contrast May remaining effectively neutral meant she was best placed to appeal to both the Leave and Remain camps. Boris still has an important role as Foreign Secretary now nonetheless and should focus on that.
Good name in man and woman, dear my lord,
Is the immediate jewel of their souls.
Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing;
'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands;
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him,
And makes me poor indeed.
And, I suggest, many, many more people see Boris as untrustworthy.
Personally, while I'd count my fingers after shaking hands, I would love to have a few drinks with BoJo. It would be entertaining.0 -
Theresa May can certainly pick up some tricks from Nicola Sturgeon. No-one does inactivity more masterfully than the SNP. Ms Sturgeon is the most consummate non-operator.malcolmg said:
Dream on SR , another Tory dud, she will be famous for doing nothing, Nicola has a far higher profile.SquareRoot said:
Really Malc.. unlike your First Minister who does a lot of shrieking but is in fact completely impotent.. Mrs May has had a blinder.. I doubt she will be bothering to include Ms Sturgeon on her tour to greet world leaders..malcolmg said:
She was doing nothing when she was here, who would notice any difference.ThreeQuidder said:
It's in the middle of the summer, nothing is happening - and if anything major happens she'll be on the first plane back.ydoethur said:
Her refusal to appoint an official deputy could just be her most serious mistake since taking office.foxinsoxuk said:
He is acting PM this week, while May is on holiday.SquareRoot said:I am not even sure what Job Boris has, I think he is F sec, but I wouldn't swear to it.. I haven't heard a peep out of him of late. Why would anyone trust Boris after his about turn.
Cripes!
That said, unless she and Hammond conspired to take holidays at different times, which also wouldn't look good to Leavers, it's hard to see how Boris week could have been avoided.
These stories every year about "who is running the country" when the PM has a holiday are the epitome of silly season.0 -
As @TSE just said, the, um, Minister for Europe. What does he know. The curious thing is that the Mail spins it (and Dan Hannan also, although I haven't read the exchange) as though this is somehow special status which many might take to mean bending of the rules on free movement/single market.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Topping, who is this Roth chap, beyond being a German member of the Bundestag?
Mr. Slackbladder, lies, you Blairite wrecker! The fiery enthusiasm of the proletariat for their tribune is undiminished by the scorn of capitalist pigdogs!
Edited extra bit: ahem, wrote 'German MP' at first. Obviously an MdB is a German.
It is not.
Interestingly also, prior to the vote, I did say several times that an EEA/Norway-type deal had been dismissed as not appropriate for an economy the size of the UK. It seems that this is indeed the case, and EEA will not be on the table. Whether for better or worse we shall see.0 -
Two questions. 1) How this compare with the same quarter in previous years? and 2) How many non-claimants are very low paid “self employed” ZHC workers and the like? And a sub to 2. How do those figures compare with the same quaret previously?previousMaxPB said:Claimaint count for July (first full post referendum data) is down by 8k, that's right, in the uncertainty of the post referendum climate, 8,000 fewer people claimed unemployment benefits (JSA/UC) than in the previous month. Again, this points to a downturn being largely sentiment based rather than anything that might trouble us in the long term.
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Uh oh.... Owen Smith didn't get that football question right.0
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Mr. Eagles, it's the nature of men to argue those who agree with them are wise and important, and those who don't are foolish and insignificant.0
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What was the question? Who plays at the Emirates type question, or who was the leading scorer in Division 2 in th 1967-68 season?Slackbladder said:Uh oh.... Owen Smith didn't get that football question right.
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That's what makes the Mail's and Dan Hannan's premature ejaculation last night so much more fun.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, it's the nature of men to argue those who agree with them are wise and important, and those who don't are foolish and insignificant.
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Not this again.TheScreamingEagles said:
It has been the European motto for twenty years, hardly surprising it comes up now and again.
It is not a demand that any Member State have free movement, just that free movement should be proportional to market access. Both of which are sliding scales, from Treaty right (quantitative restrictions) through measures having equivalent effect, to positive harmonisation, and then to true equivalence.
What the EU is also far more likely to countenance is any temporary derogation from that proportionality, whether that "temporary" derogation is for one day or eight years.
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It's not clear to me what Leavers see in Boris Johnson, that they rate him so highly. Is it simply because Leave won and some glory reflects back on him?
Disclosure: I have always been impervious to the charms of this one time popular politician.0 -
I know, I'm just setting out the sort of Brexit I'd like to seeTheWhiteRabbit said:
Not this again.TheScreamingEagles said:
It has been the European motto for twenty years, hardly surprising it comes up now and again.
It is not a demand that any Member State have free movement, just that free movement should be proportional to market access. Both of which are sliding scales, from Treaty right (quantitative restrictions) through measures having equivalent effect, to positive harmonisation, and then to true equivalence.
What the EU is also far more likely to countenance is any temporary derogation from that proportionality, whether that "temporary" derogation is for one day or eight years.
1) Free movement of people (with guaranteed jobs)
2) Access and membership of the single market
3) Remaining part of the customs union0 -
I never knew that. Which one was she?Greenwich_Floater said:
Largely due to her success as one half of the krankies?malcolmg said:
Dream on SR , another Tory dud, she will be famous for doing nothing, Nicola has a far higher profile.SquareRoot said:
Really Malc.. unlike your First Minister who does a lot of shrieking but is in fact completely impotent.. Mrs May has had a blinder.. I doubt she will be bothering to include Ms Sturgeon on her tour to greet world leaders..malcolmg said:
She was doing nothing when she was here, who would notice any difference.ThreeQuidder said:
It's in the middle of the summer, nothing is happening - and if anything major happens she'll be on the first plane back.ydoethur said:
Her refusal to appoint an official deputy could just be her most serious mistake since taking office.foxinsoxuk said:
He is acting PM this week, while May is on holiday.SquareRoot said:I am not even sure what Job Boris has, I think he is F sec, but I wouldn't swear to it.. I haven't heard a peep out of him of late. Why would anyone trust Boris after his about turn.
Cripes!
That said, unless she and Hammond conspired to take holidays at different times, which also wouldn't look good to Leavers, it's hard to see how Boris week could have been avoided.
These stories every year about "who is running the country" when the PM has a holiday are the epitome of silly season.0 -
The score in the Belgium/Wales game in EurosFrancisUrquhart said:
What was the question? Who plays at the Emirates type question, or who was the leading scorer in Division 2 in th 1967-68 season?Slackbladder said:Uh oh.... Owen Smith didn't get that football question right.
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I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.0
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Woophs...Slackbladder said:
The score in the Belgium/Wales game in EurosFrancisUrquhart said:
What was the question? Who plays at the Emirates type question, or who was the leading scorer in Division 2 in th 1967-68 season?Slackbladder said:Uh oh.... Owen Smith didn't get that football question right.
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Which, of course, is point {100%, 100%} as it were.TheScreamingEagles said:
I know, I'm just setting out the sort of Brexit I'd like to seeTheWhiteRabbit said:
Not this again.TheScreamingEagles said:
It has been the European motto for twenty years, hardly surprising it comes up now and again.
It is not a demand that any Member State have free movement, just that free movement should be proportional to market access. Both of which are sliding scales, from Treaty right (quantitative restrictions) through measures having equivalent effect, to positive harmonisation, and then to true equivalence.
What the EU is also far more likely to countenance is any temporary derogation from that proportionality, whether that "temporary" derogation is for one day or eight years.
1) Free movement of people (with guaranteed jobs)
2) Access and membership of the single market
3) Remaining part of the customs union
It's the common misinterpretation of the European point of view to assume it's that or {0%, 0%}. Not you specifically.0 -
This is what really terrifies me.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/08/the-terrifying-jfk-airport-shooting-that-wasnt.html0 -
I'd have answered thus (If I was Smith)Slackbladder said:
The score in the Belgium/Wales game in EurosFrancisUrquhart said:
What was the question? Who plays at the Emirates type question, or who was the leading scorer in Division 2 in th 1967-68 season?Slackbladder said:Uh oh.... Owen Smith didn't get that football question right.
"Ooh crikey, you've put me on the spot here haven't you. I'll be honest, and this takes some saying as a welshman but I can't remember the exact scoreline. Bale was fantastic though, and it was a great victory for Wales."0 -
Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?Luckyguy1983 said:I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.
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Did he at least remember that Wales won?Pulpstar said:
I'd have answered thus (If I was Smith)Slackbladder said:
The score in the Belgium/Wales game in EurosFrancisUrquhart said:
What was the question? Who plays at the Emirates type question, or who was the leading scorer in Division 2 in th 1967-68 season?Slackbladder said:Uh oh.... Owen Smith didn't get that football question right.
"Ooh crikey, you've put me on the spot here haven't you. I'll be honest, and this takes some saying as a welshman but I can't remember the exact scoreline. Bale was fantastic though, and it was a great victory for Wales."
I did get the score right, but it did take more thought than being put on the spot would allow.
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I call it the BINO option.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Which, of course, is point {100%, 100%} as it were.TheScreamingEagles said:
I know, I'm just setting out the sort of Brexit I'd like to seeTheWhiteRabbit said:
Not this again.TheScreamingEagles said:
It has been the European motto for twenty years, hardly surprising it comes up now and again.
It is not a demand that any Member State have free movement, just that free movement should be proportional to market access. Both of which are sliding scales, from Treaty right (quantitative restrictions) through measures having equivalent effect, to positive harmonisation, and then to true equivalence.
What the EU is also far more likely to countenance is any temporary derogation from that proportionality, whether that "temporary" derogation is for one day or eight years.
1) Free movement of people (with guaranteed jobs)
2) Access and membership of the single market
3) Remaining part of the customs union
It's the common misinterpretation of the European point of view to assume it's that or {0%, 0%}. Not you specifically.0 -
Has anyone read Rubicon on the last days of the Roman Empire? I'm looking for reading material for my next flight to Australia...0
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That is true. We shall await details.Ishmael_X said:0 -
Mr. 1000, I haven't, but if you mean the Western Empire than the Later Roman Empire by Ammianus Marcellinus (goes down to around Valentinian the Great, I think) is a very good history.
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/review-later-roman-empire-by-ammianus.html0 -
Thank you. I shall acquire it for my 24 hours on Qantas.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 1000, I haven't, but if you mean the Western Empire than the Later Roman Empire by Ammianus Marcellinus (goes down to around Valentinian the Great, I think) is a very good history.
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/review-later-roman-empire-by-ammianus.html0 -
Not on (Roman history) topic. I've just finished Charles Townshend's two Irish books (on the uprising 1916 & on independence 1918-23).rcs1000 said:Has anyone read Rubicon on the last days of the Roman Empire? I'm looking for reading material for my next flight to Australia...
V good.0 -
I call it the traitor's option.TheScreamingEagles said:
I call it the BINO option.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Which, of course, is point {100%, 100%} as it were.TheScreamingEagles said:
I know, I'm just setting out the sort of Brexit I'd like to seeTheWhiteRabbit said:
Not this again.TheScreamingEagles said:
It has been the European motto for twenty years, hardly surprising it comes up now and again.
It is not a demand that any Member State have free movement, just that free movement should be proportional to market access. Both of which are sliding scales, from Treaty right (quantitative restrictions) through measures having equivalent effect, to positive harmonisation, and then to true equivalence.
What the EU is also far more likely to countenance is any temporary derogation from that proportionality, whether that "temporary" derogation is for one day or eight years.
1) Free movement of people (with guaranteed jobs)
2) Access and membership of the single market
3) Remaining part of the customs union
It's the common misinterpretation of the European point of view to assume it's that or {0%, 0%}. Not you specifically.0 -
Mr. 1000, np.
As an aside, it's that book in which Ammianus Marcellinus derides Ed Miliband's energy price freeze policy. [Well, he condemns all fixing of commodity prices, saying they lead to shortage and famine].0 -
After all the highs of the previous few days, from what I can see today is going to be very quiet for Team GB.0
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Hmm. The single market doesn't necessarily do that, since in relative terms it reduces access to non-EU goods and services; and without a single market the choice is still there, even if EU goods and services become dearer.rcs1000 said:
Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?Luckyguy1983 said:I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.
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Can't remember who tipped Kenny as SPOTY, or, indeed, if I bet on it, but 11.1m was the peak audience watching his gold medal victory last night. So, could be a sound bet.
Edited extra bit: 7 and 8 with Ladbrokes (Kenny/Trott) with 1/5 odds for top 3. Surely one of them, at least, must be top 3?0 -
It's one of the scariest articles I've read for a long time.SeanT said:
Bloody hell.rcs1000 said:This is what really terrifies me.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/08/the-terrifying-jfk-airport-shooting-that-wasnt.html0 -
That's not true. Norway and Switzerland have access to non single market goods and services according to the trade deals they've negitiated with non-EU states,Dadge said:
Hmm. The single market doesn't necessarily do that, since in relative terms it reduces access to non-EU goods and services; and without a single market the choice is still there, even if EU goods and services become dearer.rcs1000 said:
Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?Luckyguy1983 said:I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.
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There's a sailing gold that's pretty much guaranteed - they just need to finish to claim it.FrancisUrquhart said:After all the highs of the previous few days, from what I can see today is going to be very quiet for Team GB.
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It has come to something when a day only winning one Gold is a very quiet one....Atlanta any medal was headline news.wasd said:
There's a sailing gold that's pretty much guaranteed - they just need to finish to claim it.FrancisUrquhart said:After all the highs of the previous few days, from what I can see today is going to be very quiet for Team GB.
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I'm on Trott each way at 14/1, but do wish I'd got on Kenny as well. I can't understand how Murray is evens, surely it's somebody else's turn?Morris_Dancer said:Can't remember who tipped Kenny as SPOTY, or, indeed, if I bet on it, but 11.1m was the peak audience watching his gold medal victory last night. So, could be a sound bet.
Edited extra bit: 7 and 8 with Ladbrokes (Kenny/Trott) with 1/5 odds for top 3. Surely one of them, at least, must be top 3?0 -
Mr. 86, Wimbledon and Olympic gold is quite good.
On the other hand, he's won it before. Kenny and Trott also benefit from the couple angle, meaning they'll get more coverage than either would separately. Plus, the keirin final was very dramatic. Not as long, but perhaps the cycling equivalent of the Davis-Taylor final frame.0 -
It's nice, isn't it.FrancisUrquhart said:
It has come to something when a day only winning one Gold is a very quiet one....Atlanta any medal was headline news.wasd said:
There's a sailing gold that's pretty much guaranteed - they just need to finish to claim it.FrancisUrquhart said:After all the highs of the previous few days, from what I can see today is going to be very quiet for Team GB.
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It's unlikely to be a straightforward sliding scale. The minimum freedom of movement concession would be an agreement that requires freedom of movement, but which can terminated should the UK decide to pull the plug. Which is roughly speaking the situation the Swiss are in. The UK may or may not accept that as a nominally temporary arrangement which can be stopped at any time. This is the fudge option. There would probably have to be a couple of bits of window dressing in addition.Ishmael_X said:
Then it comes down to how much deviation from current obligations would be allowable, for the UK to remain inside the single market. Strong hints from Germany and others suggest very little deviation would allowed.
Lastly what's the best deal the UK can get from the outside through an FTA. That's uncharted territory, with the one probability that nothing satisfactory is likely to happen soon.0 -
Looking at the schedule, it probably going to be the weekend before we have any chance to have a day with a big haul of medals, with the likes of the boxing, hockey, 5000m and relays (athletics) and Taekwondo.
Might actually get some work done then.0 -
That is truly horrifying.rcs1000 said:This is what really terrifies me.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/08/the-terrifying-jfk-airport-shooting-that-wasnt.html
Wouldn't have taken much for there to have been a Hillsborough style crush there, in an old terminal, of corridors with tight security around all the exits. Hopefully woken a lot of people up to how to deal with something similar.0 -
Those viewing figures are quite something. I hadn't planned to stay up but did, I was hoping that most people had gone to bed after Trott. At least she got the front pages to herself (from my selfish point of view!).Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 86, Wimbledon and Olympic gold is quite good.
On the other hand, he's won it before. Kenny and Trott also benefit from the couple angle, meaning they'll get more coverage than either would separately. Plus, the keirin final was very dramatic. Not as long, but perhaps the cycling equivalent of the Davis-Taylor final frame.0 -
I've made my first SPOTY bet - laying Mo Farah @ 6.4.tlg86 said:
I'm on Trott each way at 14/1, but do wish I'd got on Kenny as well. I can't understand how Murray is evens, surely it's somebody else's turn?Morris_Dancer said:Can't remember who tipped Kenny as SPOTY, or, indeed, if I bet on it, but 11.1m was the peak audience watching his gold medal victory last night. So, could be a sound bet.
Edited extra bit: 7 and 8 with Ladbrokes (Kenny/Trott) with 1/5 odds for top 3. Surely one of them, at least, must be top 3?
He did the double in 2012 and ended up 4th. Also last year at the worlds and finished 8th.
The odds look far too short to me considering he'll be up against Murray, Kenny, Peaty?, Whitlock, Trott, Laugher and others.0 -
I think that the attack at the Stade de France last November could have gone that way, it may even have been the intent of the bombers to cause such a stampede. It would have been pandemonium if the bombers had got inside, far more people could have been killed in the panic than by the bombs themselves.Sandpit said:
That is truly horrifying.rcs1000 said:This is what really terrifies me.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/08/the-terrifying-jfk-airport-shooting-that-wasnt.html
Wouldn't have taken much for there to have been a Hillsborough style crush there, in an old terminal, of corridors with tight security around all the exits. Hopefully woken a lot of people up to how to deal with something similar.0 -
Why would they stop being able to buy stuff.rcs1000 said:
Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?Luckyguy1983 said:I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.
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There was something I didn’t quite catch about our sporting stars birthdays. IIRC they’re around March time, whereas Gladwell in “Outliers” talked about sports stars being picked from the strongerst in their early academic years, hence tend to be born Sept to Dec. Anyone recall when and where the comment was made?0
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And the drugs scandal. Okay, he did nothing wrong, but enough people will be put off. It did for Christine Ohuruogu too.Pulpstar said:
I've made my first SPOTY bet - laying Mo Farah @ 6.4.tlg86 said:
I'm on Trott each way at 14/1, but do wish I'd got on Kenny as well. I can't understand how Murray is evens, surely it's somebody else's turn?Morris_Dancer said:Can't remember who tipped Kenny as SPOTY, or, indeed, if I bet on it, but 11.1m was the peak audience watching his gold medal victory last night. So, could be a sound bet.
Edited extra bit: 7 and 8 with Ladbrokes (Kenny/Trott) with 1/5 odds for top 3. Surely one of them, at least, must be top 3?
He did the double in 2012 and ended up 4th. Also last year at the worlds and finished 8th.
The odds look far too short to me considering he'll be up against Murray, Kenny, Peaty?, Whitlock, Trott, Laugher and others.0 -
Inside the single market, I could buy goods or services from a French or Spanish manufacturer on the same terms as a British one. We can - in addition, and as the Norwegians have done for example - sign additional free trade agreements with other countries.Luckyguy1983 said:
Why would they stop being able to buy stuff.rcs1000 said:
Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?Luckyguy1983 said:I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.
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March 23 - Hoy, Redgrave, Kenny and some others tooOldKingCole said:There was something I didn’t quite catch about our sporting stars birthdays. IIRC they’re around March time, whereas Gladwell in “Outliers” talked about sports stars being picked from the strongerst in their early academic years, hence tend to be born Sept to Dec. Anyone recall when and where the comment was made?
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Yep, the women's 10k being won by an obviously doped athlete won't help his cause either.tlg86 said:
And the drugs scandal. Okay, he did nothing wrong, but enough people will be put off. It did for Christine Ohuruogu too.Pulpstar said:
I've made my first SPOTY bet - laying Mo Farah @ 6.4.tlg86 said:
I'm on Trott each way at 14/1, but do wish I'd got on Kenny as well. I can't understand how Murray is evens, surely it's somebody else's turn?Morris_Dancer said:Can't remember who tipped Kenny as SPOTY, or, indeed, if I bet on it, but 11.1m was the peak audience watching his gold medal victory last night. So, could be a sound bet.
Edited extra bit: 7 and 8 with Ladbrokes (Kenny/Trott) with 1/5 odds for top 3. Surely one of them, at least, must be top 3?
He did the double in 2012 and ended up 4th. Also last year at the worlds and finished 8th.
The odds look far too short to me considering he'll be up against Murray, Kenny, Peaty?, Whitlock, Trott, Laugher and others.
Will look to top up if he shortens after his 5k win - for the moment laying £15 @ 6.4.0 -
As the two most likely outcomes are fudge or get stuck in the mud in a long drawn out and unsatisfactory negotiation, the fudge seems sweeter. However Theresa May is totally not in the frame of mind for fudge, I think. Which means she will likely go for the negotiation. Will fudge still be available when the negotiations stick? Leavers are likely to blame the EU for not giving what we want. It could get very bad tempered.FF43 said:
It's unlikely to be a straightforward sliding scale. The minimum freedom of movement concession would be an agreement that requires freedom of movement, but which can terminated should the UK decide to pull the plug. Which is roughly speaking the situation the Swiss are in. The UK may or may not accept that as a nominally temporary arrangement which can be stopped at any time. This is the fudge option. There would probably have to be a couple of bits of window dressing in addition.Ishmael_X said:
Then it comes down to how much deviation from current obligations would be allowable, for the UK to remain inside the single market. Strong hints from Germany and others suggest very little deviation would allowed.
Lastly what's the best deal the UK can get from the outside through an FTA. That's uncharted territory, with the one probability that nothing satisfactory is likely to happen soon.0 -
The labour market figures are unequivocally good all round. Record employment (again). 616k more employed since June '15. 23.2m ftes, up 374k on last year.OldKingCole said:
Two questions. 1) How this compare with the same quarter in previous years? and 2) How many non-claimants are very low paid “self employed” ZHC workers and the like? And a sub to 2. How do those figures compare with the same quaret previously?previousMaxPB said:Claimaint count for July (first full post referendum data) is down by 8k, that's right, in the uncertainty of the post referendum climate, 8,000 fewer people claimed unemployment benefits (JSA/UC) than in the previous month. Again, this points to a downturn being largely sentiment based rather than anything that might trouble us in the long term.
However, those numbers are almost all pre EU-ref, bar the claimant count.
I've written before how the stats hide some serious massaging, you've covered the basics; dodgy self employed, ludicrously high long term sick numbers, high levels of economic activity etc.0 -
Surely the value in the SPOTY market right now is to lay Murray at 2.1?
Is he really going to be the standout name of the Olympics for many? He also won it last year.0 -
On the other hand, on Brexit Day we immediately lose the EU-negotiated free-trade agreements with other countries, so even on the most optimistic scenario where we are super-zealous and super-efficient in negotiating replacement agreements, there is likely to be a prolonged period where the net effect is negative.rcs1000 said:
Inside the single market, I could buy goods or services from a French or Spanish manufacturer on the same terms as a British one. We can - in addition, and as the Norwegians have done for example - sign additional free trade agreements with other countries.Luckyguy1983 said:
Why would they stop being able to buy stuff.rcs1000 said:
Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?Luckyguy1983 said:I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.
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Gladwell's analysis is rather flawed e.g. his hockey analysis, "elite" players are actually overwhelmingly found to come from later in the selection year, not the start as he claims. He (incorrectly) equates professional with elite. There are a number of other issues with that age stuff as well.OldKingCole said:There was something I didn’t quite catch about our sporting stars birthdays. IIRC they’re around March time, whereas Gladwell in “Outliers” talked about sports stars being picked from the strongerst in their early academic years, hence tend to be born Sept to Dec. Anyone recall when and where the comment was made?
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Thanks. Wonder how interested they are/were in team sports!tlg86 said:
March 23 - Hoy, Redgrave, Kenny and some others tooOldKingCole said:There was something I didn’t quite catch about our sporting stars birthdays. IIRC they’re around March time, whereas Gladwell in “Outliers” talked about sports stars being picked from the strongerst in their early academic years, hence tend to be born Sept to Dec. Anyone recall when and where the comment was made?
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I agree.Richard_Nabavi said:
On the other hand, on Brexit Day we immediately lose the EU-negotiated free-trade agreements with other countries, so even on the most optimistic scenario where we are super-zealous and super-efficient in negotiating replacement agreements, there is likely to be a prolonged period where the net effect is negative.rcs1000 said:
Inside the single market, I could buy goods or services from a French or Spanish manufacturer on the same terms as a British one. We can - in addition, and as the Norwegians have done for example - sign additional free trade agreements with other countries.Luckyguy1983 said:
Why would they stop being able to buy stuff.rcs1000 said:
Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?Luckyguy1983 said:I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.
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Thanks, that looks a goody. I'm on!Sandpit said:Surely the value in the SPOTY market right now is to lay Murray at 2.1?
Is he really going to be the standout name of the Olympics for many? He also won it last year.0 -
Someone please tell me this is genuine.
https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/7658530536437841920 -
I prefer laying Farah because he won't win.Sandpit said:Surely the value in the SPOTY market right now is to lay Murray at 2.1?
Is he really going to be the standout name of the Olympics for many? He also won it last year.
Murray... might.
Nevertheless he is too short as you say.
+.01 Murray
-68.30 Farah
+26.32 The field is how I've gone.
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Wrong on several counts;PlatoSaid said:"Above all, it is crucial to see that the assassinated Leon Trotsky was a renegade, not an innocent. He had led the Red Army during the Bolshevik revolution, and was as determined as Lenin had been to wipe out the Mensheviks, whose more moderate democratic socialism had first succeeded the Tsarist autocracy."
1) The Petrograd Soviet had a large Menshevik presence, but it was not 'democratic' in that sense nor is it clear cut that it 'succeeded' the Tsar. When the Soviet took control of the Provisional Government in June 1917, it was the Trudoviki and the Socialist Revolutionaries who had most posts, including that of PM.
2) Trotsky did not lead the Red Army during the Bolshevik Revolution (indeed, it didn't technically exist until 1918) - he was in overall charge of operations in Petrograd as the Chairman of the Petrograd Soviet, and when Lenin formed his government was Commissar for Foreign Affairs negotiating the treaty of Brest-Litovsk.
3) He actually led the Red Army during the Civil War, which is where I think the confusion comes from. This was from 1918-1925. By 1918, the Mensheviks were an irrelevance. In November 1917, in elections to the Constituent Assembly, they gained 3% of the vote and 18 seats, one seat more than the Kadets but fourth in terms of the popular vote. The Whites against whom Trotsky fought contained more Tsarists than Mensheviks.
4) As long as Trotsky was involved, the Mensheviks could not be wiped out, as he was one. Although he he officially renounced them in August 1917, he was still putting forward many of their ideas as late as 1927, including on industrial reform and the position of the agricultural workforce. That in itself points out that they were hardly 'moderate'.
Indeed, the chief difference between Bolsheviks and Mensheviks was that the former wanted to seize power by force using the Red Guards and the others believed they could take it be stealth via state institutions.
Another nail in the Telegraph's coffin?0 -
I haven't noticed any difficulty purchasing items from outside the EU. Wine from New Zealand, electronics from Korea and clothes from India seem to find their way into my shopping basket somehow.rcs1000 said:
Inside the single market, I could buy goods or services from a French or Spanish manufacturer on the same terms as a British one. We can - in addition, and as the Norwegians have done for example - sign additional free trade agreements with other countries.Luckyguy1983 said:
Why would they stop being able to buy stuff.rcs1000 said:
Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?Luckyguy1983 said:I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.
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Mr. Sandpit, I mostly agree.
The only concern on Kenny/Trott is that they will likely split the cycling vote [which is hefty, although some may go for Wiggins]. Murray will get all the tennis vote.
I agree Farah's nowhere. Hamilton won't win either [F1's hit and miss, and he'll be having another consecutive title with a dominant car].0 -
If you mean "Rubicon: The Triumph and Tragedy of the Roman Republic" (Tom Holland), Republic != Empire, there's a 1.5 millennium lag between the two events.rcs1000 said:Has anyone read Rubicon on the last days of the Roman Empire? I'm looking for reading material for my next flight to Australia...
Gibbon's Decline and Fall is still a cracking read, and even the abridged versions will see you through to Australia.0 -
I have a lot of books on the classical world which I am very slowly (very slowly indeed - I blame PB!) reading. Having a daughter studying this stuff has meant that more is being acquired because she keeps pointing me to more stuff. It is all very wonderful though.rcs1000 said:
One of my bucket list ambitions - indeed the only one I really cared about and now sadly never to be fulfilled - was to travel all round the ancient Roman world: from Tunisia to Libya (to see Leptis Magna) and into Syria via a train journey from Istanbul to Damascus via Aleppo. A real shame. Even once the wars are over, so much will have been lost and I doubt that it will be safe for a woman traveler for many years to come.
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Tis real, I’ve a friend who dose the exact same thing when rattled, most odd, we always laughTheScreamingEagles said:Someone please tell me this is genuine.
ttps://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/7658530536437841920 -
The problem with Hamilton is that he is currently 100-1 to lay !Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Sandpit, I mostly agree.
The only concern on Kenny/Trott is that they will likely split the cycling vote [which is hefty, although some may go for Wiggins]. Murray will get all the tennis vote.
I agree Farah's nowhere. Hamilton won't win either [F1's hit and miss, and he'll be having another consecutive title with a dominant car].
Hopefully he will shorten a bit from that to allow some profit taking on the rest.0 -
'Can I finish, please?' Sounds like a campaign slogan given the circumstances.TheScreamingEagles said:Someone please tell me this is genuine.
https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/765853053643784192
If that's his real voice though...0 -
Not to mention cycling has a rather notoriously disciplined voting community for such events.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 86, Wimbledon and Olympic gold is quite good.
On the other hand, he's won it before. Kenny and Trott also benefit from the couple angle, meaning they'll get more coverage than either would separately. Plus, the keirin final was very dramatic. Not as long, but perhaps the cycling equivalent of the Davis-Taylor final frame.0 -
This might help your understanding.Luckyguy1983 said:
I haven't noticed any difficulty purchasing items from outside the EU. Wine from New Zealand, electronics from Korea and clothes from India seem to find their way into my shopping basket somehow.rcs1000 said:
Inside the single market, I could buy goods or services from a French or Spanish manufacturer on the same terms as a British one. We can - in addition, and as the Norwegians have done for example - sign additional free trade agreements with other countries.Luckyguy1983 said:
Why would they stop being able to buy stuff.rcs1000 said:
Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?Luckyguy1983 said:I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.
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Basically, I'm an idiot. But an idiot who's about to be slightly better informed on the fall of the Roman Republic.Ishmael_X said:
If you mean "Rubicon: The Triumph and Tragedy of the Roman Republic" (Tom Holland), Republic != Empire, there's a 1.5 millennium lag between the two events.rcs1000 said:Has anyone read Rubicon on the last days of the Roman Empire? I'm looking for reading material for my next flight to Australia...
Gibbon's Decline and Fall is still a cracking read, and even the abridged versions will see you through to Australia.0 -
No-one has won it three times, or retained the title. He's way too short at 11/10, the danger is the cycling vote gets split and lets him through the middle.Pulpstar said:
I prefer laying Farah because he won't win.Sandpit said:Surely the value in the SPOTY market right now is to lay Murray at 2.1?
Is he really going to be the standout name of the Olympics for many? He also won it last year.
Murray... might.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/sports-personality/19587151 < list of past winners.0 -
So far as non olympic athletes go, the one that might get into the final selection is Kell Brook, IF he beats Golovkin.
That's a huge ask though and will still be v tough for him in an olympic year.0 -
Telegraph reporting that with the putput event, the officials only had video from one bad angle and it was Team GB who provided extra footage to save Kenny...and in the second false start they did the same to save the German.
Again, at the biggest event that only comes around every 4 years and the availability of cheap high spec cameras, how didn't the officials have access to their own?0 -
Well I've laid him back to zeroSandpit said:
No-one has won it three times, or retained the title. He's way too short at 11/10, the danger is the cycling vote gets split and lets him through the middle.Pulpstar said:
I prefer laying Farah because he won't win.Sandpit said:Surely the value in the SPOTY market right now is to lay Murray at 2.1?
Is he really going to be the standout name of the Olympics for many? He also won it last year.
Murray... might.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/sports-personality/19587151 < list of past winners.
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I go up two, three octaves.SimonStClare said:
Tis real, I’ve a friend who dose the exact same thing when rattled, most odd, we always laughTheScreamingEagles said:Someone please tell me this is genuine.
ttps://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/7658530536437841920 -
Murray has already won Wimbledon and Spoty. Mo couldn’t win the last time, despite all the hype behind his back story. Kenny and Trott have it all, Gold medals galore, Olympic firsts and a charming romance to boot. – If they could stand on the same ticket as a couple they’d sweep all before them. The difficulty will be choosing which one will be crowned SPOTY.
Ms Trott is my bet.0 -
If SPOTY was actually about what it said on the tin, you would think Trott should walk it. Most successful female British Olympian, great back story and bags of personality.0
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Frustrating post today. Got a second letter this year saying my account interest rate had been cut (citing Carney's stupid decision) and the new folders I ordered to keep paperwork in better order are a finger's width too large to fit with the others [small drawer]. Humbug!0
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Nerves. When people are nervous they speak from the top of their throat in a tight strangulated way.SimonStClare said:
Tis real, I’ve a friend who dose the exact same thing when rattled, most odd, we always laughTheScreamingEagles said:Someone please tell me this is genuine.
ttps://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/765853053643784192
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Hold on.Luckyguy1983 said:
I haven't noticed any difficulty purchasing items from outside the EU. Wine from New Zealand, electronics from Korea and clothes from India seem to find their way into my shopping basket somehow.rcs1000 said:
Inside the single market, I could buy goods or services from a French or Spanish manufacturer on the same terms as a British one. We can - in addition, and as the Norwegians have done for example - sign additional free trade agreements with other countries.Luckyguy1983 said:
Why would they stop being able to buy stuff.rcs1000 said:
Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?Luckyguy1983 said:I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.
It's precisely because the UK wanted to buy those things from outside the EU that we Brexited, isn't it?
Now you are saying we could do it all along?
Gah!0 -
Hamilton's a back at 100/1. If he wins the title he'll become the joint third greatest driver of all time (level with Vettel and Prost, behind Fangio and Schumacher. The championship also finishes about a week before the nominations are decided.Pulpstar said:
The problem with Hamilton is that he is currently 100-1 to lay !Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Sandpit, I mostly agree.
The only concern on Kenny/Trott is that they will likely split the cycling vote [which is hefty, although some may go for Wiggins]. Murray will get all the tennis vote.
I agree Farah's nowhere. Hamilton won't win either [F1's hit and miss, and he'll be having another consecutive title with a dominant car].
Hopefully he will shorten a bit from that to allow some profit taking on the rest.
Also, if anyone finds a market for overseas personality, Usain Bolt's gonna be value at about 1/20!0
