Mr. Topping, who is this Roth chap, beyond being a German member of the Bundestag?
Mr. Slackbladder, lies, you Blairite wrecker! The fiery enthusiasm of the proletariat for their tribune is undiminished by the scorn of capitalist pigdogs!
Edited extra bit: ahem, wrote 'German MP' at first. Obviously an MdB is a German.
But Michael Roth warned the UK could not 'cherry pick' their status He repeated no single market access without free movement of people Brexit negotiations should be over in time for 2019 MEP elections
If that's going to be their attitude, then we can manage just fine with WTO rules. German carmakers might want to disagree with the Eurocrats though.
2019 is a good exit date though, which suggests Art. 50 declaration in Q1 or Q2 next year.
Ironically it was the referendum that killed Boris in the popularity stakes, Leave won but by a narrow enough margin to leave many bitter Remainers who will never forgive him for leading the Leave campaign. By contrast May remaining effectively neutral meant she was best placed to appeal to both the Leave and Remain camps. Boris still has an important role as Foreign Secretary now nonetheless and should focus on that.
Boris was playing student politics with his fellow Bullingdon club member. In his own words he's 'not an outer' and didn't expect to win. He deserves to be unpopular.
His political gameplaying has cost him certainly
I'm sure his £135,527 salary + other engagements will enable him to struggle on through that vale of tears.
I refer you to Othello: Act 3, scene 3, 155–161 Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls. Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing; 'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands; But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him, And makes me poor indeed.
And, I suggest, many, many more people see Boris as untrustworthy.
I take your point (and have used that quote many times). However, Boris doesn't have to associate with all the 'haters' (to use my daughter's term). He's certainly Marmite, but those that like him, really like him.
Personally, while I'd count my fingers after shaking hands, I would love to have a few drinks with BoJo. It would be entertaining.
Yes, agree with your last paragraph. Rogues are often good company!
Mr. Topping, who is this Roth chap, beyond being a German member of the Bundestag?
Mr. Slackbladder, lies, you Blairite wrecker! The fiery enthusiasm of the proletariat for their tribune is undiminished by the scorn of capitalist pigdogs!
Edited extra bit: ahem, wrote 'German MP' at first. Obviously an MdB is a German.
He's Germany's Minister for Europe.
So quite an important person when it comes to sorting out Brexit.
Ironically it was the referendum that killed Boris in the popularity stakes, Leave won but by a narrow enough margin to leave many bitter Remainers who will never forgive him for leading the Leave campaign. By contrast May remaining effectively neutral meant she was best placed to appeal to both the Leave and Remain camps. Boris still has an important role as Foreign Secretary now nonetheless and should focus on that.
Boris was playing student politics with his fellow Bullingdon club member. In his own words he's 'not an outer' and didn't expect to win. He deserves to be unpopular.
His political gameplaying has cost him certainly
I'm sure his £135,527 salary + other engagements will enable him to struggle on through that vale of tears.
I refer you to Othello: Act 3, scene 3, 155–161 Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls. Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing; 'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands; But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him, And makes me poor indeed.
And, I suggest, many, many more people see Boris as untrustworthy.
I take your point (and have used that quote many times). However, Boris doesn't have to associate with all the 'haters' (to use my daughter's term). He's certainly Marmite, but those that like him, really like him.
Personally, while I'd count my fingers after shaking hands, I would love to have a few drinks with BoJo. It would be entertaining.
Yes, agree with your last paragraph. Rogues are often good company!
I spent a half day accompanying Boris, both in public and behind the scenes. I think it's fair to say that he is a big picture man, and very reliant upon his advisers. He does however do the front man bit brilliantly.
I am not even sure what Job Boris has, I think he is F sec, but I wouldn't swear to it.. I haven't heard a peep out of him of late. Why would anyone trust Boris after his about turn.
He is acting PM this week, while May is on holiday.
Cripes!
Her refusal to appoint an official deputy could just be her most serious mistake since taking office.
That said, unless she and Hammond conspired to take holidays at different times, which also wouldn't look good to Leavers, it's hard to see how Boris week could have been avoided.
It's in the middle of the summer, nothing is happening - and if anything major happens she'll be on the first plane back.
These stories every year about "who is running the country" when the PM has a holiday are the epitome of silly season.
She was doing nothing when she was here, who would notice any difference.
Really Malc.. unlike your First Minister who does a lot of shrieking but is in fact completely impotent.. Mrs May has had a blinder.. I doubt she will be bothering to include Ms Sturgeon on her tour to greet world leaders..
Dream on SR , another Tory dud, she will be famous for doing nothing, Nicola has a far higher profile.
Theresa May can certainly pick up some tricks from Nicola Sturgeon. No-one does inactivity more masterfully than the SNP. Ms Sturgeon is the most consummate non-operator.
Mr. Topping, who is this Roth chap, beyond being a German member of the Bundestag?
Mr. Slackbladder, lies, you Blairite wrecker! The fiery enthusiasm of the proletariat for their tribune is undiminished by the scorn of capitalist pigdogs!
Edited extra bit: ahem, wrote 'German MP' at first. Obviously an MdB is a German.
As @TSE just said, the, um, Minister for Europe. What does he know. The curious thing is that the Mail spins it (and Dan Hannan also, although I haven't read the exchange) as though this is somehow special status which many might take to mean bending of the rules on free movement/single market.
It is not.
Interestingly also, prior to the vote, I did say several times that an EEA/Norway-type deal had been dismissed as not appropriate for an economy the size of the UK. It seems that this is indeed the case, and EEA will not be on the table. Whether for better or worse we shall see.
Claimaint count for July (first full post referendum data) is down by 8k, that's right, in the uncertainty of the post referendum climate, 8,000 fewer people claimed unemployment benefits (JSA/UC) than in the previous month. Again, this points to a downturn being largely sentiment based rather than anything that might trouble us in the long term.
Two questions. 1) How this compare with the same quarter in previous years? and 2) How many non-claimants are very low paid “self employed” ZHC workers and the like? And a sub to 2. How do those figures compare with the same quaret previously?previous
"Mr Roth said that, without free movement, there would not be full access to the single market."
Doesn't get more straightforward than that.
I'd be happy with that.
Not this again.
It has been the European motto for twenty years, hardly surprising it comes up now and again.
It is not a demand that any Member State have free movement, just that free movement should be proportional to market access. Both of which are sliding scales, from Treaty right (quantitative restrictions) through measures having equivalent effect, to positive harmonisation, and then to true equivalence.
What the EU is also far more likely to countenance is any temporary derogation from that proportionality, whether that "temporary" derogation is for one day or eight years.
It's not clear to me what Leavers see in Boris Johnson, that they rate him so highly. Is it simply because Leave won and some glory reflects back on him?
Disclosure: I have always been impervious to the charms of this one time popular politician.
"Mr Roth said that, without free movement, there would not be full access to the single market."
Doesn't get more straightforward than that.
I'd be happy with that.
Not this again.
It has been the European motto for twenty years, hardly surprising it comes up now and again.
It is not a demand that any Member State have free movement, just that free movement should be proportional to market access. Both of which are sliding scales, from Treaty right (quantitative restrictions) through measures having equivalent effect, to positive harmonisation, and then to true equivalence.
What the EU is also far more likely to countenance is any temporary derogation from that proportionality, whether that "temporary" derogation is for one day or eight years.
I know, I'm just setting out the sort of Brexit I'd like to see
I am not even sure what Job Boris has, I think he is F sec, but I wouldn't swear to it.. I haven't heard a peep out of him of late. Why would anyone trust Boris after his about turn.
He is acting PM this week, while May is on holiday.
Cripes!
Her refusal to appoint an official deputy could just be her most serious mistake since taking office.
That said, unless she and Hammond conspired to take holidays at different times, which also wouldn't look good to Leavers, it's hard to see how Boris week could have been avoided.
It's in the middle of the summer, nothing is happening - and if anything major happens she'll be on the first plane back.
These stories every year about "who is running the country" when the PM has a holiday are the epitome of silly season.
She was doing nothing when she was here, who would notice any difference.
Really Malc.. unlike your First Minister who does a lot of shrieking but is in fact completely impotent.. Mrs May has had a blinder.. I doubt she will be bothering to include Ms Sturgeon on her tour to greet world leaders..
Dream on SR , another Tory dud, she will be famous for doing nothing, Nicola has a far higher profile.
Largely due to her success as one half of the krankies?
"Mr Roth said that, without free movement, there would not be full access to the single market."
Doesn't get more straightforward than that.
I'd be happy with that.
Not this again.
It has been the European motto for twenty years, hardly surprising it comes up now and again.
It is not a demand that any Member State have free movement, just that free movement should be proportional to market access. Both of which are sliding scales, from Treaty right (quantitative restrictions) through measures having equivalent effect, to positive harmonisation, and then to true equivalence.
What the EU is also far more likely to countenance is any temporary derogation from that proportionality, whether that "temporary" derogation is for one day or eight years.
I know, I'm just setting out the sort of Brexit I'd like to see
1) Free movement of people (with guaranteed jobs)
2) Access and membership of the single market
3) Remaining part of the customs union
Which, of course, is point {100%, 100%} as it were.
It's the common misinterpretation of the European point of view to assume it's that or {0%, 0%}. Not you specifically.
Uh oh.... Owen Smith didn't get that football question right.
What was the question? Who plays at the Emirates type question, or who was the leading scorer in Division 2 in th 1967-68 season?
The score in the Belgium/Wales game in Euros
I'd have answered thus (If I was Smith)
"Ooh crikey, you've put me on the spot here haven't you. I'll be honest, and this takes some saying as a welshman but I can't remember the exact scoreline. Bale was fantastic though, and it was a great victory for Wales."
Uh oh.... Owen Smith didn't get that football question right.
What was the question? Who plays at the Emirates type question, or who was the leading scorer in Division 2 in th 1967-68 season?
The score in the Belgium/Wales game in Euros
I'd have answered thus (If I was Smith)
"Ooh crikey, you've put me on the spot here haven't you. I'll be honest, and this takes some saying as a welshman but I can't remember the exact scoreline. Bale was fantastic though, and it was a great victory for Wales."
Did he at least remember that Wales won?
I did get the score right, but it did take more thought than being put on the spot would allow.
"Mr Roth said that, without free movement, there would not be full access to the single market."
Doesn't get more straightforward than that.
I'd be happy with that.
Not this again.
It has been the European motto for twenty years, hardly surprising it comes up now and again.
It is not a demand that any Member State have free movement, just that free movement should be proportional to market access. Both of which are sliding scales, from Treaty right (quantitative restrictions) through measures having equivalent effect, to positive harmonisation, and then to true equivalence.
What the EU is also far more likely to countenance is any temporary derogation from that proportionality, whether that "temporary" derogation is for one day or eight years.
I know, I'm just setting out the sort of Brexit I'd like to see
1) Free movement of people (with guaranteed jobs)
2) Access and membership of the single market
3) Remaining part of the customs union
Which, of course, is point {100%, 100%} as it were.
It's the common misinterpretation of the European point of view to assume it's that or {0%, 0%}. Not you specifically.
Mr. 1000, I haven't, but if you mean the Western Empire than the Later Roman Empire by Ammianus Marcellinus (goes down to around Valentinian the Great, I think) is a very good history.
Mr. 1000, I haven't, but if you mean the Western Empire than the Later Roman Empire by Ammianus Marcellinus (goes down to around Valentinian the Great, I think) is a very good history.
"Mr Roth said that, without free movement, there would not be full access to the single market."
Doesn't get more straightforward than that.
I'd be happy with that.
Not this again.
It has been the European motto for twenty years, hardly surprising it comes up now and again.
It is not a demand that any Member State have free movement, just that free movement should be proportional to market access. Both of which are sliding scales, from Treaty right (quantitative restrictions) through measures having equivalent effect, to positive harmonisation, and then to true equivalence.
What the EU is also far more likely to countenance is any temporary derogation from that proportionality, whether that "temporary" derogation is for one day or eight years.
I know, I'm just setting out the sort of Brexit I'd like to see
1) Free movement of people (with guaranteed jobs)
2) Access and membership of the single market
3) Remaining part of the customs union
Which, of course, is point {100%, 100%} as it were.
It's the common misinterpretation of the European point of view to assume it's that or {0%, 0%}. Not you specifically.
As an aside, it's that book in which Ammianus Marcellinus derides Ed Miliband's energy price freeze policy. [Well, he condemns all fixing of commodity prices, saying they lead to shortage and famine].
I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.
Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?
Hmm. The single market doesn't necessarily do that, since in relative terms it reduces access to non-EU goods and services; and without a single market the choice is still there, even if EU goods and services become dearer.
Can't remember who tipped Kenny as SPOTY, or, indeed, if I bet on it, but 11.1m was the peak audience watching his gold medal victory last night. So, could be a sound bet.
Edited extra bit: 7 and 8 with Ladbrokes (Kenny/Trott) with 1/5 odds for top 3. Surely one of them, at least, must be top 3?
I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.
Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?
Hmm. The single market doesn't necessarily do that, since in relative terms it reduces access to non-EU goods and services; and without a single market the choice is still there, even if EU goods and services become dearer.
That's not true. Norway and Switzerland have access to non single market goods and services according to the trade deals they've negitiated with non-EU states,
Can't remember who tipped Kenny as SPOTY, or, indeed, if I bet on it, but 11.1m was the peak audience watching his gold medal victory last night. So, could be a sound bet.
Edited extra bit: 7 and 8 with Ladbrokes (Kenny/Trott) with 1/5 odds for top 3. Surely one of them, at least, must be top 3?
I'm on Trott each way at 14/1, but do wish I'd got on Kenny as well. I can't understand how Murray is evens, surely it's somebody else's turn?
On the other hand, he's won it before. Kenny and Trott also benefit from the couple angle, meaning they'll get more coverage than either would separately. Plus, the keirin final was very dramatic. Not as long, but perhaps the cycling equivalent of the Davis-Taylor final frame.
"Mr Roth said that, without free movement, there would not be full access to the single market."
Doesn't get more straightforward than that.
As "not full" has a range from 0 to 99.999% it does, actually, get a lot more straightforward than that.
It's unlikely to be a straightforward sliding scale. The minimum freedom of movement concession would be an agreement that requires freedom of movement, but which can terminated should the UK decide to pull the plug. Which is roughly speaking the situation the Swiss are in. The UK may or may not accept that as a nominally temporary arrangement which can be stopped at any time. This is the fudge option. There would probably have to be a couple of bits of window dressing in addition.
Then it comes down to how much deviation from current obligations would be allowable, for the UK to remain inside the single market. Strong hints from Germany and others suggest very little deviation would allowed.
Lastly what's the best deal the UK can get from the outside through an FTA. That's uncharted territory, with the one probability that nothing satisfactory is likely to happen soon.
Looking at the schedule, it probably going to be the weekend before we have any chance to have a day with a big haul of medals, with the likes of the boxing, hockey, 5000m and relays (athletics) and Taekwondo.
Wouldn't have taken much for there to have been a Hillsborough style crush there, in an old terminal, of corridors with tight security around all the exits. Hopefully woken a lot of people up to how to deal with something similar.
On the other hand, he's won it before. Kenny and Trott also benefit from the couple angle, meaning they'll get more coverage than either would separately. Plus, the keirin final was very dramatic. Not as long, but perhaps the cycling equivalent of the Davis-Taylor final frame.
Those viewing figures are quite something. I hadn't planned to stay up but did, I was hoping that most people had gone to bed after Trott. At least she got the front pages to herself (from my selfish point of view!).
Can't remember who tipped Kenny as SPOTY, or, indeed, if I bet on it, but 11.1m was the peak audience watching his gold medal victory last night. So, could be a sound bet.
Edited extra bit: 7 and 8 with Ladbrokes (Kenny/Trott) with 1/5 odds for top 3. Surely one of them, at least, must be top 3?
I'm on Trott each way at 14/1, but do wish I'd got on Kenny as well. I can't understand how Murray is evens, surely it's somebody else's turn?
I've made my first SPOTY bet - laying Mo Farah @ 6.4.
He did the double in 2012 and ended up 4th. Also last year at the worlds and finished 8th.
The odds look far too short to me considering he'll be up against Murray, Kenny, Peaty?, Whitlock, Trott, Laugher and others.
Wouldn't have taken much for there to have been a Hillsborough style crush there, in an old terminal, of corridors with tight security around all the exits. Hopefully woken a lot of people up to how to deal with something similar.
I think that the attack at the Stade de France last November could have gone that way, it may even have been the intent of the bombers to cause such a stampede. It would have been pandemonium if the bombers had got inside, far more people could have been killed in the panic than by the bombs themselves.
There was something I didn’t quite catch about our sporting stars birthdays. IIRC they’re around March time, whereas Gladwell in “Outliers” talked about sports stars being picked from the strongerst in their early academic years, hence tend to be born Sept to Dec. Anyone recall when and where the comment was made?
Can't remember who tipped Kenny as SPOTY, or, indeed, if I bet on it, but 11.1m was the peak audience watching his gold medal victory last night. So, could be a sound bet.
Edited extra bit: 7 and 8 with Ladbrokes (Kenny/Trott) with 1/5 odds for top 3. Surely one of them, at least, must be top 3?
I'm on Trott each way at 14/1, but do wish I'd got on Kenny as well. I can't understand how Murray is evens, surely it's somebody else's turn?
I've made my first SPOTY bet - laying Mo Farah @ 6.4.
He did the double in 2012 and ended up 4th. Also last year at the worlds and finished 8th.
The odds look far too short to me considering he'll be up against Murray, Kenny, Peaty?, Whitlock, Trott, Laugher and others.
And the drugs scandal. Okay, he did nothing wrong, but enough people will be put off. It did for Christine Ohuruogu too.
I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.
Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?
Why would they stop being able to buy stuff.
Inside the single market, I could buy goods or services from a French or Spanish manufacturer on the same terms as a British one. We can - in addition, and as the Norwegians have done for example - sign additional free trade agreements with other countries.
There was something I didn’t quite catch about our sporting stars birthdays. IIRC they’re around March time, whereas Gladwell in “Outliers” talked about sports stars being picked from the strongerst in their early academic years, hence tend to be born Sept to Dec. Anyone recall when and where the comment was made?
March 23 - Hoy, Redgrave, Kenny and some others too
Can't remember who tipped Kenny as SPOTY, or, indeed, if I bet on it, but 11.1m was the peak audience watching his gold medal victory last night. So, could be a sound bet.
Edited extra bit: 7 and 8 with Ladbrokes (Kenny/Trott) with 1/5 odds for top 3. Surely one of them, at least, must be top 3?
I'm on Trott each way at 14/1, but do wish I'd got on Kenny as well. I can't understand how Murray is evens, surely it's somebody else's turn?
I've made my first SPOTY bet - laying Mo Farah @ 6.4.
He did the double in 2012 and ended up 4th. Also last year at the worlds and finished 8th.
The odds look far too short to me considering he'll be up against Murray, Kenny, Peaty?, Whitlock, Trott, Laugher and others.
And the drugs scandal. Okay, he did nothing wrong, but enough people will be put off. It did for Christine Ohuruogu too.
Yep, the women's 10k being won by an obviously doped athlete won't help his cause either. Will look to top up if he shortens after his 5k win - for the moment laying £15 @ 6.4.
"Mr Roth said that, without free movement, there would not be full access to the single market."
Doesn't get more straightforward than that.
As "not full" has a range from 0 to 99.999% it does, actually, get a lot more straightforward than that.
It's unlikely to be a straightforward sliding scale. The minimum freedom of movement concession would be an agreement that requires freedom of movement, but which can terminated should the UK decide to pull the plug. Which is roughly speaking the situation the Swiss are in. The UK may or may not accept that as a nominally temporary arrangement which can be stopped at any time. This is the fudge option. There would probably have to be a couple of bits of window dressing in addition.
Then it comes down to how much deviation from current obligations would be allowable, for the UK to remain inside the single market. Strong hints from Germany and others suggest very little deviation would allowed.
Lastly what's the best deal the UK can get from the outside through an FTA. That's uncharted territory, with the one probability that nothing satisfactory is likely to happen soon.
As the two most likely outcomes are fudge or get stuck in the mud in a long drawn out and unsatisfactory negotiation, the fudge seems sweeter. However Theresa May is totally not in the frame of mind for fudge, I think. Which means she will likely go for the negotiation. Will fudge still be available when the negotiations stick? Leavers are likely to blame the EU for not giving what we want. It could get very bad tempered.
Claimaint count for July (first full post referendum data) is down by 8k, that's right, in the uncertainty of the post referendum climate, 8,000 fewer people claimed unemployment benefits (JSA/UC) than in the previous month. Again, this points to a downturn being largely sentiment based rather than anything that might trouble us in the long term.
Two questions. 1) How this compare with the same quarter in previous years? and 2) How many non-claimants are very low paid “self employed” ZHC workers and the like? And a sub to 2. How do those figures compare with the same quaret previously?previous
The labour market figures are unequivocally good all round. Record employment (again). 616k more employed since June '15. 23.2m ftes, up 374k on last year.
However, those numbers are almost all pre EU-ref, bar the claimant count.
I've written before how the stats hide some serious massaging, you've covered the basics; dodgy self employed, ludicrously high long term sick numbers, high levels of economic activity etc.
Surely the value in the SPOTY market right now is to lay Murray at 2.1? Is he really going to be the standout name of the Olympics for many? He also won it last year.
I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.
Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?
Why would they stop being able to buy stuff.
Inside the single market, I could buy goods or services from a French or Spanish manufacturer on the same terms as a British one. We can - in addition, and as the Norwegians have done for example - sign additional free trade agreements with other countries.
On the other hand, on Brexit Day we immediately lose the EU-negotiated free-trade agreements with other countries, so even on the most optimistic scenario where we are super-zealous and super-efficient in negotiating replacement agreements, there is likely to be a prolonged period where the net effect is negative.
There was something I didn’t quite catch about our sporting stars birthdays. IIRC they’re around March time, whereas Gladwell in “Outliers” talked about sports stars being picked from the strongerst in their early academic years, hence tend to be born Sept to Dec. Anyone recall when and where the comment was made?
Gladwell's analysis is rather flawed e.g. his hockey analysis, "elite" players are actually overwhelmingly found to come from later in the selection year, not the start as he claims. He (incorrectly) equates professional with elite. There are a number of other issues with that age stuff as well.
There was something I didn’t quite catch about our sporting stars birthdays. IIRC they’re around March time, whereas Gladwell in “Outliers” talked about sports stars being picked from the strongerst in their early academic years, hence tend to be born Sept to Dec. Anyone recall when and where the comment was made?
March 23 - Hoy, Redgrave, Kenny and some others too
Thanks. Wonder how interested they are/were in team sports!
I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.
Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?
Why would they stop being able to buy stuff.
Inside the single market, I could buy goods or services from a French or Spanish manufacturer on the same terms as a British one. We can - in addition, and as the Norwegians have done for example - sign additional free trade agreements with other countries.
On the other hand, on Brexit Day we immediately lose the EU-negotiated free-trade agreements with other countries, so even on the most optimistic scenario where we are super-zealous and super-efficient in negotiating replacement agreements, there is likely to be a prolonged period where the net effect is negative.
Surely the value in the SPOTY market right now is to lay Murray at 2.1? Is he really going to be the standout name of the Olympics for many? He also won it last year.
Surely the value in the SPOTY market right now is to lay Murray at 2.1? Is he really going to be the standout name of the Olympics for many? He also won it last year.
I prefer laying Farah because he won't win.
Murray... might.
Nevertheless he is too short as you say.
+.01 Murray -68.30 Farah +26.32 The field is how I've gone.
"Above all, it is crucial to see that the assassinated Leon Trotsky was a renegade, not an innocent. He had led the Red Army during the Bolshevik revolution, and was as determined as Lenin had been to wipe out the Mensheviks, whose more moderate democratic socialism had first succeeded the Tsarist autocracy."
Wrong on several counts;
1) The Petrograd Soviet had a large Menshevik presence, but it was not 'democratic' in that sense nor is it clear cut that it 'succeeded' the Tsar. When the Soviet took control of the Provisional Government in June 1917, it was the Trudoviki and the Socialist Revolutionaries who had most posts, including that of PM.
2) Trotsky did not lead the Red Army during the Bolshevik Revolution (indeed, it didn't technically exist until 1918) - he was in overall charge of operations in Petrograd as the Chairman of the Petrograd Soviet, and when Lenin formed his government was Commissar for Foreign Affairs negotiating the treaty of Brest-Litovsk.
3) He actually led the Red Army during the Civil War, which is where I think the confusion comes from. This was from 1918-1925. By 1918, the Mensheviks were an irrelevance. In November 1917, in elections to the Constituent Assembly, they gained 3% of the vote and 18 seats, one seat more than the Kadets but fourth in terms of the popular vote. The Whites against whom Trotsky fought contained more Tsarists than Mensheviks.
4) As long as Trotsky was involved, the Mensheviks could not be wiped out, as he was one. Although he he officially renounced them in August 1917, he was still putting forward many of their ideas as late as 1927, including on industrial reform and the position of the agricultural workforce. That in itself points out that they were hardly 'moderate'.
Indeed, the chief difference between Bolsheviks and Mensheviks was that the former wanted to seize power by force using the Red Guards and the others believed they could take it be stealth via state institutions.
I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.
Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?
Why would they stop being able to buy stuff.
Inside the single market, I could buy goods or services from a French or Spanish manufacturer on the same terms as a British one. We can - in addition, and as the Norwegians have done for example - sign additional free trade agreements with other countries.
I haven't noticed any difficulty purchasing items from outside the EU. Wine from New Zealand, electronics from Korea and clothes from India seem to find their way into my shopping basket somehow.
The only concern on Kenny/Trott is that they will likely split the cycling vote [which is hefty, although some may go for Wiggins]. Murray will get all the tennis vote.
I agree Farah's nowhere. Hamilton won't win either [F1's hit and miss, and he'll be having another consecutive title with a dominant car].
Has anyone read Rubicon on the last days of the Roman Empire? I'm looking for reading material for my next flight to Australia...
If you mean "Rubicon: The Triumph and Tragedy of the Roman Republic" (Tom Holland), Republic != Empire, there's a 1.5 millennium lag between the two events.
Gibbon's Decline and Fall is still a cracking read, and even the abridged versions will see you through to Australia.
Has anyone read Rubicon on the last days of the Roman Empire? I'm looking for reading material for my next flight to Australia...
I have. I really enjoyed it.
I can always read two books on the fall of the Roman Empire...
I have a lot of books on the classical world which I am very slowly (very slowly indeed - I blame PB!) reading. Having a daughter studying this stuff has meant that more is being acquired because she keeps pointing me to more stuff. It is all very wonderful though.
One of my bucket list ambitions - indeed the only one I really cared about and now sadly never to be fulfilled - was to travel all round the ancient Roman world: from Tunisia to Libya (to see Leptis Magna) and into Syria via a train journey from Istanbul to Damascus via Aleppo. A real shame. Even once the wars are over, so much will have been lost and I doubt that it will be safe for a woman traveler for many years to come.
The only concern on Kenny/Trott is that they will likely split the cycling vote [which is hefty, although some may go for Wiggins]. Murray will get all the tennis vote.
I agree Farah's nowhere. Hamilton won't win either [F1's hit and miss, and he'll be having another consecutive title with a dominant car].
The problem with Hamilton is that he is currently 100-1 to lay !
Hopefully he will shorten a bit from that to allow some profit taking on the rest.
On the other hand, he's won it before. Kenny and Trott also benefit from the couple angle, meaning they'll get more coverage than either would separately. Plus, the keirin final was very dramatic. Not as long, but perhaps the cycling equivalent of the Davis-Taylor final frame.
Not to mention cycling has a rather notoriously disciplined voting community for such events.
I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.
Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?
Why would they stop being able to buy stuff.
Inside the single market, I could buy goods or services from a French or Spanish manufacturer on the same terms as a British one. We can - in addition, and as the Norwegians have done for example - sign additional free trade agreements with other countries.
I haven't noticed any difficulty purchasing items from outside the EU. Wine from New Zealand, electronics from Korea and clothes from India seem to find their way into my shopping basket somehow.
Has anyone read Rubicon on the last days of the Roman Empire? I'm looking for reading material for my next flight to Australia...
If you mean "Rubicon: The Triumph and Tragedy of the Roman Republic" (Tom Holland), Republic != Empire, there's a 1.5 millennium lag between the two events.
Gibbon's Decline and Fall is still a cracking read, and even the abridged versions will see you through to Australia.
Basically, I'm an idiot. But an idiot who's about to be slightly better informed on the fall of the Roman Republic.
Surely the value in the SPOTY market right now is to lay Murray at 2.1? Is he really going to be the standout name of the Olympics for many? He also won it last year.
I prefer laying Farah because he won't win.
Murray... might.
No-one has won it three times, or retained the title. He's way too short at 11/10, the danger is the cycling vote gets split and lets him through the middle. http://www.bbc.com/sport/sports-personality/19587151 < list of past winners.
Telegraph reporting that with the putput event, the officials only had video from one bad angle and it was Team GB who provided extra footage to save Kenny...and in the second false start they did the same to save the German.
Again, at the biggest event that only comes around every 4 years and the availability of cheap high spec cameras, how didn't the officials have access to their own?
Surely the value in the SPOTY market right now is to lay Murray at 2.1? Is he really going to be the standout name of the Olympics for many? He also won it last year.
I prefer laying Farah because he won't win.
Murray... might.
No-one has won it three times, or retained the title. He's way too short at 11/10, the danger is the cycling vote gets split and lets him through the middle. http://www.bbc.com/sport/sports-personality/19587151 < list of past winners.
Murray has already won Wimbledon and Spoty. Mo couldn’t win the last time, despite all the hype behind his back story. Kenny and Trott have it all, Gold medals galore, Olympic firsts and a charming romance to boot. – If they could stand on the same ticket as a couple they’d sweep all before them. The difficulty will be choosing which one will be crowned SPOTY.
If SPOTY was actually about what it said on the tin, you would think Trott should walk it. Most successful female British Olympian, great back story and bags of personality.
Frustrating post today. Got a second letter this year saying my account interest rate had been cut (citing Carney's stupid decision) and the new folders I ordered to keep paperwork in better order are a finger's width too large to fit with the others [small drawer]. Humbug!
I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.
Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?
Why would they stop being able to buy stuff.
Inside the single market, I could buy goods or services from a French or Spanish manufacturer on the same terms as a British one. We can - in addition, and as the Norwegians have done for example - sign additional free trade agreements with other countries.
I haven't noticed any difficulty purchasing items from outside the EU. Wine from New Zealand, electronics from Korea and clothes from India seem to find their way into my shopping basket somehow.
Hold on.
It's precisely because the UK wanted to buy those things from outside the EU that we Brexited, isn't it?
The only concern on Kenny/Trott is that they will likely split the cycling vote [which is hefty, although some may go for Wiggins]. Murray will get all the tennis vote.
I agree Farah's nowhere. Hamilton won't win either [F1's hit and miss, and he'll be having another consecutive title with a dominant car].
The problem with Hamilton is that he is currently 100-1 to lay !
Hopefully he will shorten a bit from that to allow some profit taking on the rest.
Hamilton's a back at 100/1. If he wins the title he'll become the joint third greatest driver of all time (level with Vettel and Prost, behind Fangio and Schumacher. The championship also finishes about a week before the nominations are decided.
Also, if anyone finds a market for overseas personality, Usain Bolt's gonna be value at about 1/20!
Comments
Doesn't get more straightforward than that.
Mr. Slackbladder, lies, you Blairite wrecker! The fiery enthusiasm of the proletariat for their tribune is undiminished by the scorn of capitalist pigdogs!
Edited extra bit: ahem, wrote 'German MP' at first. Obviously an MdB is a German.
2019 is a good exit date though, which suggests Art. 50 declaration in Q1 or Q2 next year.
So quite an important person when it comes to sorting out Brexit.
'Olympic Cycling Star Skinner Tells Leave.EU: Don't Use My Picture'
http://tinyurl.com/hb94qy7
It is not.
Interestingly also, prior to the vote, I did say several times that an EEA/Norway-type deal had been dismissed as not appropriate for an economy the size of the UK. It seems that this is indeed the case, and EEA will not be on the table. Whether for better or worse we shall see.
It has been the European motto for twenty years, hardly surprising it comes up now and again.
It is not a demand that any Member State have free movement, just that free movement should be proportional to market access. Both of which are sliding scales, from Treaty right (quantitative restrictions) through measures having equivalent effect, to positive harmonisation, and then to true equivalence.
What the EU is also far more likely to countenance is any temporary derogation from that proportionality, whether that "temporary" derogation is for one day or eight years.
Disclosure: I have always been impervious to the charms of this one time popular politician.
1) Free movement of people (with guaranteed jobs)
2) Access and membership of the single market
3) Remaining part of the customs union
https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/765839066231439360
It's the common misinterpretation of the European point of view to assume it's that or {0%, 0%}. Not you specifically.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/08/the-terrifying-jfk-airport-shooting-that-wasnt.html
"Ooh crikey, you've put me on the spot here haven't you. I'll be honest, and this takes some saying as a welshman but I can't remember the exact scoreline. Bale was fantastic though, and it was a great victory for Wales."
I did get the score right, but it did take more thought than being put on the spot would allow.
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/review-later-roman-empire-by-ammianus.html
V good.
As an aside, it's that book in which Ammianus Marcellinus derides Ed Miliband's energy price freeze policy. [Well, he condemns all fixing of commodity prices, saying they lead to shortage and famine].
Edited extra bit: 7 and 8 with Ladbrokes (Kenny/Trott) with 1/5 odds for top 3. Surely one of them, at least, must be top 3?
On the other hand, he's won it before. Kenny and Trott also benefit from the couple angle, meaning they'll get more coverage than either would separately. Plus, the keirin final was very dramatic. Not as long, but perhaps the cycling equivalent of the Davis-Taylor final frame.
Then it comes down to how much deviation from current obligations would be allowable, for the UK to remain inside the single market. Strong hints from Germany and others suggest very little deviation would allowed.
Lastly what's the best deal the UK can get from the outside through an FTA. That's uncharted territory, with the one probability that nothing satisfactory is likely to happen soon.
Might actually get some work done then.
Wouldn't have taken much for there to have been a Hillsborough style crush there, in an old terminal, of corridors with tight security around all the exits. Hopefully woken a lot of people up to how to deal with something similar.
He did the double in 2012 and ended up 4th. Also last year at the worlds and finished 8th.
The odds look far too short to me considering he'll be up against Murray, Kenny, Peaty?, Whitlock, Trott, Laugher and others.
Will look to top up if he shortens after his 5k win - for the moment laying £15 @ 6.4.
However, those numbers are almost all pre EU-ref, bar the claimant count.
I've written before how the stats hide some serious massaging, you've covered the basics; dodgy self employed, ludicrously high long term sick numbers, high levels of economic activity etc.
Is he really going to be the standout name of the Olympics for many? He also won it last year.
Thanks
https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/765853053643784192
Murray... might.
Nevertheless he is too short as you say.
+.01 Murray
-68.30 Farah
+26.32 The field is how I've gone.
1) The Petrograd Soviet had a large Menshevik presence, but it was not 'democratic' in that sense nor is it clear cut that it 'succeeded' the Tsar. When the Soviet took control of the Provisional Government in June 1917, it was the Trudoviki and the Socialist Revolutionaries who had most posts, including that of PM.
2) Trotsky did not lead the Red Army during the Bolshevik Revolution (indeed, it didn't technically exist until 1918) - he was in overall charge of operations in Petrograd as the Chairman of the Petrograd Soviet, and when Lenin formed his government was Commissar for Foreign Affairs negotiating the treaty of Brest-Litovsk.
3) He actually led the Red Army during the Civil War, which is where I think the confusion comes from. This was from 1918-1925. By 1918, the Mensheviks were an irrelevance. In November 1917, in elections to the Constituent Assembly, they gained 3% of the vote and 18 seats, one seat more than the Kadets but fourth in terms of the popular vote. The Whites against whom Trotsky fought contained more Tsarists than Mensheviks.
4) As long as Trotsky was involved, the Mensheviks could not be wiped out, as he was one. Although he he officially renounced them in August 1917, he was still putting forward many of their ideas as late as 1927, including on industrial reform and the position of the agricultural workforce. That in itself points out that they were hardly 'moderate'.
Indeed, the chief difference between Bolsheviks and Mensheviks was that the former wanted to seize power by force using the Red Guards and the others believed they could take it be stealth via state institutions.
Another nail in the Telegraph's coffin?
The only concern on Kenny/Trott is that they will likely split the cycling vote [which is hefty, although some may go for Wiggins]. Murray will get all the tennis vote.
I agree Farah's nowhere. Hamilton won't win either [F1's hit and miss, and he'll be having another consecutive title with a dominant car].
Gibbon's Decline and Fall is still a cracking read, and even the abridged versions will see you through to Australia.
One of my bucket list ambitions - indeed the only one I really cared about and now sadly never to be fulfilled - was to travel all round the ancient Roman world: from Tunisia to Libya (to see Leptis Magna) and into Syria via a train journey from Istanbul to Damascus via Aleppo. A real shame. Even once the wars are over, so much will have been lost and I doubt that it will be safe for a woman traveler for many years to come.
Hopefully he will shorten a bit from that to allow some profit taking on the rest.
If that's his real voice though...
http://www.bbc.com/sport/sports-personality/19587151 < list of past winners.
That's a huge ask though and will still be v tough for him in an olympic year.
Again, at the biggest event that only comes around every 4 years and the availability of cheap high spec cameras, how didn't the officials have access to their own?
Ms Trott is my bet.
It's precisely because the UK wanted to buy those things from outside the EU that we Brexited, isn't it?
Now you are saying we could do it all along?
Gah!
Also, if anyone finds a market for overseas personality, Usain Bolt's gonna be value at about 1/20!