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  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    edited August 2016
    Mr. Urquhart, huzzah for British fair play.

    Mr. Corporeal, indeed. Like Conservatives at election time, cycling enthusiasts will turn out to vote.

    Mr. Pulpstar, what? Hamilton should be nowhere near those odds for either SPOTY or the F1 title. It's madder than the odds on no safety car at the Hungarian Grand Prix [I wish bookies always mispriced markets like that].

    Edited extra bit: never mind, I misread the post. He's right to be long for SPOTY, but maybe not *that* long.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,370
    edited August 2016
    Ishmael_X said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Has anyone read Rubicon on the last days of the Roman Empire? I'm looking for reading material for my next flight to Australia...

    If you mean "Rubicon: The Triumph and Tragedy of the Roman Republic" (Tom Holland), Republic != Empire, there's a 1.5 millennium lag between the two events.

    Gibbon's Decline and Fall is still a cracking read, and even the abridged versions will see you through to Australia.
    The best account of the fall of the Republic is of course Livy's.

    Those pesky Gracchi brothers..
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    I am not even sure what Job Boris has, I think he is F sec, but I wouldn't swear to it.. I haven't heard a peep out of him of late. Why would anyone trust Boris after his about turn.

    He is acting PM this week, while May is on holiday.

    Cripes!
    Her refusal to appoint an official deputy could just be her most serious mistake since taking office.

    That said, unless she and Hammond conspired to take holidays at different times, which also wouldn't look good to Leavers, it's hard to see how Boris week could have been avoided.
    It's in the middle of the summer, nothing is happening - and if anything major happens she'll be on the first plane back.

    These stories every year about "who is running the country" when the PM has a holiday are the epitome of silly season.
    She was doing nothing when she was here, who would notice any difference.
    Really Malc.. unlike your First Minister who does a lot of shrieking but is in fact completely impotent.. Mrs May has had a blinder.. I doubt she will be bothering to include Ms Sturgeon on her tour to greet world leaders..
    Actually May's first trip was to visit Sturgeon
    I said visit to meet world leaders, Sturgeon is in charge of not a lot and has little or no influence..
    SR, you sound worried there, methinks you doth protest too much
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,193
    Pulpstar said:

    So far as non olympic athletes go, the one that might get into the final selection is Kell Brook, IF he beats Golovkin.

    That's a huge ask though and will still be v tough for him in an olympic year.

    What about Joshua? I was thinking he should get nominated, but then he's probably not won that career defining fight yet.

    Incidentally, I'd have thought Ben Ainslie should be close to a certainty next year if we can win the America's Cup.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    I am not even sure what Job Boris has, I think he is F sec, but I wouldn't swear to it.. I haven't heard a peep out of him of late. Why would anyone trust Boris after his about turn.

    He is acting PM this week, while May is on holiday.

    Cripes!
    Her refusal to appoint an official deputy could just be her most serious mistake since taking office.

    That said, unless she and Hammond conspired to take holidays at different times, which also wouldn't look good to Leavers, it's hard to see how Boris week could have been avoided.
    It's in the middle of the summer, nothing is happening - and if anything major happens she'll be on the first plane back.

    These stories every year about "who is running the country" when the PM has a holiday are the epitome of silly season.
    She was doing nothing when she was here, who would notice any difference.
    Really Malc.. unlike your First Minister who does a lot of shrieking but is in fact completely impotent.. Mrs May has had a blinder.. I doubt she will be bothering to include Ms Sturgeon on her tour to greet world leaders..
    Dream on SR , another Tory dud, she will be famous for doing nothing, Nicola has a far higher profile.
    Largely due to her success as one half of the krankies?
    Always one gets away from their village
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    Mr. Topping, not read that yet (I'm deliberately taking my time acquiring Livy's stuff) but his Early History and Second Punic War offerings are very enjoyable.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,370

    Mr. Topping, not read that yet (I'm deliberately taking my time acquiring Livy's stuff) but his Early History and Second Punic War offerings are very enjoyable.

    Well worth the effort, Mr Dancer.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    Chris said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    I am not even sure what Job Boris has, I think he is F sec, but I wouldn't swear to it.. I haven't heard a peep out of him of late. Why would anyone trust Boris after his about turn.

    He is acting PM this week, while May is on holiday.

    Cripes!
    Her refusal to appoint an official deputy could just be her most serious mistake since taking office.

    That said, unless she and Hammond conspired to take holidays at different times, which also wouldn't look good to Leavers, it's hard to see how Boris week could have been avoided.
    It's in the middle of the summer, nothing is happening - and if anything major happens she'll be on the first plane back.

    These stories every year about "who is running the country" when the PM has a holiday are the epitome of silly season.
    She was doing nothing when she was here, who would notice any difference.
    Really Malc.. unlike your First Minister who does a lot of shrieking but is in fact completely impotent.. Mrs May has had a blinder.. I doubt she will be bothering to include Ms Sturgeon on her tour to greet world leaders..
    Dream on SR , another Tory dud, she will be famous for doing nothing, Nicola has a far higher profile.
    Largely due to her success as one half of the krankies?
    I never knew that. Which one was she?
    Don't give up your job seekers allowance, you will never make it as a comedienne
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    Mr. Topping, I'm sure they are, but they're treats to be enjoyed not only in the devouring but in the anticipation.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    So far as non olympic athletes go, the one that might get into the final selection is Kell Brook, IF he beats Golovkin.

    That's a huge ask though and will still be v tough for him in an olympic year.

    What about Joshua? I was thinking he should get nominated, but then he's probably not won that career defining fight yet.

    Incidentally, I'd have thought Ben Ainslie should be close to a certainty next year if we can win the America's Cup.
    Not fought enough top class opponents. I know he has a title, but he needs to beat one of Klitschko, Fury, Wilder to get in the frame. Then defend against Haye. Bit of a lack of talent at the top weight, welter through to light heavy have better fighters.

    Carl Frampton is probably the best pound for pound boxer in the UK at the moment (Though Brook will go top p4p in the world if he beats Golovkin)
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919
    edited August 2016
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    So far as non olympic athletes go, the one that might get into the final selection is Kell Brook, IF he beats Golovkin.

    That's a huge ask though and will still be v tough for him in an olympic year.

    What about Joshua? I was thinking he should get nominated, but then he's probably not won that career defining fight yet.

    Incidentally, I'd have thought Ben Ainslie should be close to a certainty next year if we can win the America's Cup.
    Nicola Adams could win a gold medal too.

    The SPOTY shortlist is going to be horrible for more than a dozen gold medalists, and world champions. I wonder if they might make it longer than usual this year?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,370

    Mr. Topping, I'm sure they are, but they're treats to be enjoyed not only in the devouring but in the anticipation.

    Absolutely. Plus I don't want to give the game away, but

    **SPOILER ALERT**

    It fell.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,496
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.

    Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?
    Why would they stop being able to buy stuff.
    Inside the single market, I could buy goods or services from a French or Spanish manufacturer on the same terms as a British one. We can - in addition, and as the Norwegians have done for example - sign additional free trade agreements with other countries.
    I haven't noticed any difficulty purchasing items from outside the EU. Wine from New Zealand, electronics from Korea and clothes from India seem to find their way into my shopping basket somehow.
    Hold on.

    It's precisely because the UK wanted to buy those things from outside the EU that we Brexited, isn't it?
    No.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    Mr. Sandpit, Adams is likeable and will get a lot of Yorkshire votes, but I don't think she has the profile to challenge for SPOTY.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,855
    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Has anyone read Rubicon on the last days of the Roman Empire? I'm looking for reading material for my next flight to Australia...

    I have. I really enjoyed it.

    I can always read two books on the fall of the Roman Empire...
    I have a lot of books on the classical world which I am very slowly (very slowly indeed - I blame PB!) reading. Having a daughter studying this stuff has meant that more is being acquired because she keeps pointing me to more stuff. It is all very wonderful though.

    One of my bucket list ambitions - indeed the only one I really cared about and now sadly never to be fulfilled - was to travel all round the ancient Roman world: from Tunisia to Libya (to see Leptis Magna) and into Syria via a train journey from Istanbul to Damascus via Aleppo. A real shame. Even once the wars are over, so much will have been lost and I doubt that it will be safe for a woman traveler for many years to come.
    The ones I'd recommend (from my library) are:-

    History of the Classical World - Robin Lane Fox

    The Spartans - Paul Cartledge

    The Pelopennesian War - Donald Kagan

    Persian Fire and Rubicon - Tom Holland

    Tacitus' History of the Year of the Four Emperors

    The Roman Army - Adrian Goldsworthy

    The Later Roman Empire - AHM Jones

    Invisible Romans - Robert Knapp

    History of Byzantium - John Julius Norwich

    Byzantium - The Survival of a Medieval Empire by Judith Herrin.

    Romanus Lecapenus and His Reign - Sir Steven Runciman.

    There are, of course, hundreds of other excellent works.

  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,496
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.

    Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?
    Why would they stop being able to buy stuff.
    Inside the single market, I could buy goods or services from a French or Spanish manufacturer on the same terms as a British one. We can - in addition, and as the Norwegians have done for example - sign additional free trade agreements with other countries.
    I haven't noticed any difficulty purchasing items from outside the EU. Wine from New Zealand, electronics from Korea and clothes from India seem to find their way into my shopping basket somehow.
    This might help your understanding.
    Thanks - a working link might have helped it even more.

    I am aware of what a tariff is, and the fact that it is applied on non-EU imports. Thankfully somehow the Chinese, Indians, Americans, and everyone else, have found a cunning way to overcome the extra pennies that are added to their products - producing goods and services that people want to buy. This perhaps could be something we try.

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    edited August 2016
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    So far as non olympic athletes go, the one that might get into the final selection is Kell Brook, IF he beats Golovkin.

    That's a huge ask though and will still be v tough for him in an olympic year.

    What about Joshua? I was thinking he should get nominated, but then he's probably not won that career defining fight yet.

    Incidentally, I'd have thought Ben Ainslie should be close to a certainty next year if we can win the America's Cup.
    Nicola Adams could win a gold medal too.

    The SPOTY shortlist is going to be horrible for more than a dozen gold medalists, I wonder if it might be longer than usual this year?
    It depends if Adams faces up to a russian who has had her judges paid off by the Russian olympic committee.

    The russian fighters have been getting some very very dodgy decisions this olympics - Vladimir Nikitin and Evgeny Tischenko two russian fighters to be on the beneficial end of these.
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    BBC - Top North Korean diplomat who disappeared from London embassy has defected to South Korea, Seoul confirms - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37107442

    Awkward.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    Mr. F, I've got that Kagan book. It's very good, and crammed, perhaps even festooned, with excellent maps.

    Was less taken with Tacitus but that may be due to the translation. Goldsworthy's Roman Army book was interesting.

    Also, the Norwich history of Byzantium *must* be the trilogy, not the single volume [which gets rather poor reviews, if memory serves].

    Mr. Topping, that reminds me of some people bitching about 'spoilers' when others gave away the end of historical videogames (spoilers: the Nazis lose).
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    So far as non olympic athletes go, the one that might get into the final selection is Kell Brook, IF he beats Golovkin.

    That's a huge ask though and will still be v tough for him in an olympic year.

    What about Joshua? I was thinking he should get nominated, but then he's probably not won that career defining fight yet.

    Incidentally, I'd have thought Ben Ainslie should be close to a certainty next year if we can win the America's Cup.
    Nicola Adams could win a gold medal too.

    The SPOTY shortlist is going to be horrible for more than a dozen gold medalists, I wonder if it might be longer than usual this year?
    It depends if Adams faces up to a russian who has had her judges paid off by the Russian olympic committee.

    The russian fighters have been getting some very very dodgy decisions this olympics - Vladimir Nikitin and Evgeny Tischenko two russian fighters to be on the beneficial end of these.
    Even the Russian coach most moved to say the result of the Tischenko fight was not right.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,855

    Mr. F, I've got that Kagan book. It's very good, and crammed, perhaps even festooned, with excellent maps.

    Was less taken with Tacitus but that may be due to the translation. Goldsworthy's Roman Army book was interesting.

    Also, the Norwich history of Byzantium *must* be the trilogy, not the single volume [which gets rather poor reviews, if memory serves].

    Mr. Topping, that reminds me of some people bitching about 'spoilers' when others gave away the end of historical videogames (spoilers: the Nazis lose).

    I've got the Trilogy. I'm not interested in the single volume.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Has anyone read Rubicon on the last days of the Roman Empire? I'm looking for reading material for my next flight to Australia...

    I have. I really enjoyed it.

    I can always read two books on the fall of the Roman Empire...
    I have a lot of books on the classical world which I am very slowly (very slowly indeed - I blame PB!) reading. Having a daughter studying this stuff has meant that more is being acquired because she keeps pointing me to more stuff. It is all very wonderful though.

    One of my bucket list ambitions - indeed the only one I really cared about and now sadly never to be fulfilled - was to travel all round the ancient Roman world: from Tunisia to Libya (to see Leptis Magna) and into Syria via a train journey from Istanbul to Damascus via Aleppo. A real shame. Even once the wars are over, so much will have been lost and I doubt that it will be safe for a woman traveler for many years to come.
    The ones I'd recommend (from my library) are:-

    History of the Classical World - Robin Lane Fox

    The Spartans - Paul Cartledge

    The Pelopennesian War - Donald Kagan

    Persian Fire and Rubicon - Tom Holland

    Tacitus' History of the Year of the Four Emperors

    The Roman Army - Adrian Goldsworthy

    The Later Roman Empire - AHM Jones

    Invisible Romans - Robert Knapp

    History of Byzantium - John Julius Norwich

    Byzantium - The Survival of a Medieval Empire by Judith Herrin.

    Romanus Lecapenus and His Reign - Sir Steven Runciman.

    There are, of course, hundreds of other excellent works.

    If I were to read just one book on Byzantium, what would you recommend?
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Head of Breitbart has joined Trump's campaign, Manafort effectively demoted.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,855
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Has anyone read Rubicon on the last days of the Roman Empire? I'm looking for reading material for my next flight to Australia...

    I have. I really enjoyed it.

    I can always read two books on the fall of the Roman Empire...
    I have a lot of books on the classical world which I am very slowly (very slowly indeed - I blame PB!) reading. Having a daughter studying this stuff has meant that more is being acquired because she keeps pointing me to more stuff. It is all very wonderful though.

    One of my bucket list ambitions - indeed the only one I really cared about and now sadly never to be fulfilled - was to travel all round the ancient Roman world: from Tunisia to Libya (to see Leptis Magna) and into Syria via a train journey from Istanbul to Damascus via Aleppo. A real shame. Even once the wars are over, so much will have been lost and I doubt that it will be safe for a woman traveler for many years to come.
    The ones I'd recommend (from my library) are:-

    History of the Classical World - Robin Lane Fox

    The Spartans - Paul Cartledge

    The Pelopennesian War - Donald Kagan

    Persian Fire and Rubicon - Tom Holland

    Tacitus' History of the Year of the Four Emperors

    The Roman Army - Adrian Goldsworthy

    The Later Roman Empire - AHM Jones

    Invisible Romans - Robert Knapp

    History of Byzantium - John Julius Norwich

    Byzantium - The Survival of a Medieval Empire by Judith Herrin.

    Romanus Lecapenus and His Reign - Sir Steven Runciman.

    There are, of course, hundreds of other excellent works.

    If I were to read just one book on Byzantium, what would you recommend?
    It depends how much time you want to devote. Judith Herrin's book is very good, but John Julius Norwich's trilogy is more extensive.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    So far as non olympic athletes go, the one that might get into the final selection is Kell Brook, IF he beats Golovkin.

    That's a huge ask though and will still be v tough for him in an olympic year.

    What about Joshua? I was thinking he should get nominated, but then he's probably not won that career defining fight yet.

    Incidentally, I'd have thought Ben Ainslie should be close to a certainty next year if we can win the America's Cup.
    Nicola Adams could win a gold medal too.

    The SPOTY shortlist is going to be horrible for more than a dozen gold medalists, I wonder if it might be longer than usual this year?
    It depends if Adams faces up to a russian who has had her judges paid off by the Russian olympic committee.

    The russian fighters have been getting some very very dodgy decisions this olympics - Vladimir Nikitin and Evgeny Tischenko two russian fighters to be on the beneficial end of these.
    There is that too, although one hopes the IOC have stepped in to reschedule/remove the officials before the finals. The interview with that young Irish lad the other day as he stepped out of the ring was priceless. If the ABA had no problem they'd be banning him for life for disrepute. They won't.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    So far as non olympic athletes go, the one that might get into the final selection is Kell Brook, IF he beats Golovkin.

    That's a huge ask though and will still be v tough for him in an olympic year.

    What about Joshua? I was thinking he should get nominated, but then he's probably not won that career defining fight yet.

    Incidentally, I'd have thought Ben Ainslie should be close to a certainty next year if we can win the America's Cup.
    Nicola Adams could win a gold medal too.

    The SPOTY shortlist is going to be horrible for more than a dozen gold medalists, I wonder if it might be longer than usual this year?
    It depends if Adams faces up to a russian who has had her judges paid off by the Russian olympic committee.

    The russian fighters have been getting some very very dodgy decisions this olympics - Vladimir Nikitin and Evgeny Tischenko two russian fighters to be on the beneficial end of these.
    Even the Russian coach most moved to say the result of the Tischenko fight was not right.
    It is so obviously bent by russian officials. Whether they've used a carrot or a stick I'm unsure of but something untoward has gone on.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,277

    BBC - Top North Korean diplomat who disappeared from London embassy has defected to South Korea, Seoul confirms - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37107442

    Awkward.

    I was wondering whether any of the NK athletes at games would take the opportunity to skip.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,320
    edited August 2016
    Alistair said:

    Head of Breitbart has joined Trump's campaign, Manafort effectively demoted.

    I feel a Private Frazer moment coming on...but fortunately I can say 'they're' rather than 'we're'.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,277

    Frustrating post today. Got a second letter this year saying my account interest rate had been cut (citing Carney's stupid decision) and the new folders I ordered to keep paperwork in better order are a finger's width too large to fit with the others [small drawer]. Humbug!

    Commiserations. We'll soon be paying banks to keep our money in current accounts.
  • Options

    BBC - Top North Korean diplomat who disappeared from London embassy has defected to South Korea, Seoul confirms - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37107442

    Awkward.

    I was wondering whether any of the NK athletes at games would take the opportunity to skip.
    I am going to guess they can't take a shit without a team of men from the government standing beside them.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2016
    http://order-order.com/2016/08/17/owen-smith-need-get-isis-round-table/

    You first Owen...off you pop to syria, see if you can get ISIS into a listening mode.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    So far as non olympic athletes go, the one that might get into the final selection is Kell Brook, IF he beats Golovkin.

    That's a huge ask though and will still be v tough for him in an olympic year.

    What about Joshua? I was thinking he should get nominated, but then he's probably not won that career defining fight yet.

    Incidentally, I'd have thought Ben Ainslie should be close to a certainty next year if we can win the America's Cup.
    Nicola Adams could win a gold medal too.

    The SPOTY shortlist is going to be horrible for more than a dozen gold medalists, I wonder if it might be longer than usual this year?
    It depends if Adams faces up to a russian who has had her judges paid off by the Russian olympic committee.

    The russian fighters have been getting some very very dodgy decisions this olympics - Vladimir Nikitin and Evgeny Tischenko two russian fighters to be on the beneficial end of these.
    Even the Russian coach most moved to say the result of the Tischenko fight was not right.
    It is so obviously bent by russian officials. Whether they've used a carrot or a stick I'm unsure of but something untoward has gone on.
    Is it? Why not a betting fix?
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    http://order-order.com/2016/08/17/owen-smith-need-get-isis-round-table/

    You first Owen...off you pop to syria for a chat.

    Wow - Owen could actually be worse than Corbyn.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,855

    http://order-order.com/2016/08/17/owen-smith-need-get-isis-round-table/

    You first Owen...off you pop to syria for a chat.

    What does he think there is to discuss?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    So far as non olympic athletes go, the one that might get into the final selection is Kell Brook, IF he beats Golovkin.

    That's a huge ask though and will still be v tough for him in an olympic year.

    What about Joshua? I was thinking he should get nominated, but then he's probably not won that career defining fight yet.

    Incidentally, I'd have thought Ben Ainslie should be close to a certainty next year if we can win the America's Cup.
    Nicola Adams could win a gold medal too.

    The SPOTY shortlist is going to be horrible for more than a dozen gold medalists, I wonder if it might be longer than usual this year?
    It depends if Adams faces up to a russian who has had her judges paid off by the Russian olympic committee.

    The russian fighters have been getting some very very dodgy decisions this olympics - Vladimir Nikitin and Evgeny Tischenko two russian fighters to be on the beneficial end of these.
    There is that too, although one hopes the IOC have stepped in to reschedule/remove the officials before the finals. The interview with that young Irish lad the other day as he stepped out of the ring was priceless. If the ABA had no problem they'd be banning him for life for disrepute. They won't.
    Well he'll be turning pro and very obviously has the skillset to challenge for titles so it won't be a problem in the future for him !

    He's rightly pissed off that he's been robbed of potential olympic glory though. Mind you neither Mayweather nor Roy Jones Jr won olympic gold due to dodgy decisions, so it can happen to the very best.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Irish and European IOC chief Patrick Hickey arrested in Rio over illegal Olympic ticket sales, Brazil media report
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    BBC - Top North Korean diplomat who disappeared from London embassy has defected to South Korea, Seoul confirms - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37107442

    Awkward.

    I was wondering whether any of the NK athletes at games would take the opportunity to skip.
    On past Olympics, North Koreans are not exactly under lock and key when not competing, but they are closely watched, forbidden from seeing places of interest and adhere to the rule of ‘no mixing with others’ – On defecting, they probably would if they could but can’t.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942

    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    So far as non olympic athletes go, the one that might get into the final selection is Kell Brook, IF he beats Golovkin.

    That's a huge ask though and will still be v tough for him in an olympic year.

    What about Joshua? I was thinking he should get nominated, but then he's probably not won that career defining fight yet.

    Incidentally, I'd have thought Ben Ainslie should be close to a certainty next year if we can win the America's Cup.
    Nicola Adams could win a gold medal too.

    The SPOTY shortlist is going to be horrible for more than a dozen gold medalists, I wonder if it might be longer than usual this year?
    It depends if Adams faces up to a russian who has had her judges paid off by the Russian olympic committee.

    The russian fighters have been getting some very very dodgy decisions this olympics - Vladimir Nikitin and Evgeny Tischenko two russian fighters to be on the beneficial end of these.
    Even the Russian coach most moved to say the result of the Tischenko fight was not right.
    It is so obviously bent by russian officials. Whether they've used a carrot or a stick I'm unsure of but something untoward has gone on.
    Is it? Why not a betting fix?
    Hmm yes hadn't thought of that angle. Coincidence that it has involved two russian fighters though ?
    Could be a russian mafia bet job..
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,723
    Alistair said:

    Head of Breitbart has joined Trump's campaign, Manafort effectively demoted.

    Yes, reinforces the belief that we should treat anything on breitbart.com as Trump propaganda.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,855
    Floater said:

    http://order-order.com/2016/08/17/owen-smith-need-get-isis-round-table/

    You first Owen...off you pop to syria for a chat.

    Wow - Owen could actually be worse than Corbyn.
    Owen is Corbyn without the charisma.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Has anyone read Rubicon on the last days of the Roman Empire? I'm looking for reading material for my next flight to Australia...

    I have. I really enjoyed it.

    I can always read two books on the fall of the Roman Empire...
    I have a lot of books on the classical world which I am very slowly (very slowly indeed - I blame PB!) reading. Having a daughter studying this stuff has meant that more is being acquired because she keeps pointing me to more stuff. It is all very wonderful though.

    One of my bucket list ambitions - indeed the only one I really cared about and now sadly never to be fulfilled - was to travel all round the ancient Roman world: from Tunisia to Libya (to see Leptis Magna) and into Syria via a train journey from Istanbul to Damascus via Aleppo. A real shame. Even once the wars are over, so much will have been lost and I doubt that it will be safe for a woman traveler for many years to come.
    The ones I'd recommend (from my library) are:-

    History of the Classical World - Robin Lane Fox

    The Spartans - Paul Cartledge

    The Pelopennesian War - Donald Kagan

    Persian Fire and Rubicon - Tom Holland

    Tacitus' History of the Year of the Four Emperors

    The Roman Army - Adrian Goldsworthy

    The Later Roman Empire - AHM Jones

    Invisible Romans - Robert Knapp

    History of Byzantium - John Julius Norwich

    Byzantium - The Survival of a Medieval Empire by Judith Herrin.

    Romanus Lecapenus and His Reign - Sir Steven Runciman.

    There are, of course, hundreds of other excellent works.

    If I were to read just one book on Byzantium, what would you recommend?
    It depends how much time you want to devote. Judith Herrin's book is very good, but John Julius Norwich's trilogy is more extensive.
    I'll start with Judith, then.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    Sean_F said:

    Floater said:

    http://order-order.com/2016/08/17/owen-smith-need-get-isis-round-table/

    You first Owen...off you pop to syria for a chat.

    Wow - Owen could actually be worse than Corbyn.
    Owen is Corbyn without the charisma.
    A pound shop Kinnock was my first thought.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Sean_F said:

    Owen is Corbyn without the charisma.

    Or the beard...
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,277
    Those icm england-only labour figures are terrible.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2016
    I can't work out if Owen Smith is just thick and believes all this crap he comes out with or he thinks that trying to out Corbyn, Corbyn is a good tactical approach, when in fact all the nonsense he is spouting will be used to define him even if he was to beat Corbyn.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151

    http://order-order.com/2016/08/17/owen-smith-need-get-isis-round-table/

    You first Owen...off you pop to syria, see if you can get ISIS into a listening mode.

    Well they've tried to hold peace talks before over Syria before, and peace talks are generally less effective if you won't talk to the people you're fighting the war against.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,277

    Alistair said:

    Head of Breitbart has joined Trump's campaign, Manafort effectively demoted.

    Yes, reinforces the belief that we should treat anything on breitbart.com as Trump propaganda.
    The money must be good. Who'd want to be Trump's campaign manager? He doesn't listen to a word.
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    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    So far as non olympic athletes go, the one that might get into the final selection is Kell Brook, IF he beats Golovkin.

    That's a huge ask though and will still be v tough for him in an olympic year.

    What about Joshua? I was thinking he should get nominated, but then he's probably not won that career defining fight yet.

    Incidentally, I'd have thought Ben Ainslie should be close to a certainty next year if we can win the America's Cup.
    Nicola Adams could win a gold medal too.

    The SPOTY shortlist is going to be horrible for more than a dozen gold medalists, I wonder if it might be longer than usual this year?
    It depends if Adams faces up to a russian who has had her judges paid off by the Russian olympic committee.

    The russian fighters have been getting some very very dodgy decisions this olympics - Vladimir Nikitin and Evgeny Tischenko two russian fighters to be on the beneficial end of these.
    Even the Russian coach most moved to say the result of the Tischenko fight was not right.
    It is so obviously bent by russian officials. Whether they've used a carrot or a stick I'm unsure of but something untoward has gone on.
    Is it? Why not a betting fix?
    Hmm yes hadn't thought of that angle. Coincidence that it has involved two russian fighters though ?
    Could be a russian mafia bet job..
    I have not studied this - just my initial thought after the irish debacle when AFAIK the irish favourite was defeated by the judges in what was a more one sided contest led by the irish man. EIther way someone appears to have influenced the judges.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    If they thought this was their only chance, why didn't the PLP put forward someone more compelling [assuming reports of Smith's rubbishness are accurate]?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,526
    edited August 2016
    BREAKING: @NathanGillMEP to leave @UKIPWales assembly group to sit as independent


    ...but says he'll remain a UKIP MEP for Wales and leader of UKIP Wales.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.

    Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?
    Why would they stop being able to buy stuff.
    Inside the single market, I could buy goods or services from a French or Spanish manufacturer on the same terms as a British one. We can - in addition, and as the Norwegians have done for example - sign additional free trade agreements with other countries.
    I haven't noticed any difficulty purchasing items from outside the EU. Wine from New Zealand, electronics from Korea and clothes from India seem to find their way into my shopping basket somehow.
    This might help your understanding.
    Thanks - a working link might have helped it even more.

    I am aware of what a tariff is, and the fact that it is applied on non-EU imports. Thankfully somehow the Chinese, Indians, Americans, and everyone else, have found a cunning way to overcome the extra pennies that are added to their products - producing goods and services that people want to buy. This perhaps could be something we try.

    Tariffs are fairly low via the WHO, but what can really clobber exports (both manufactured and service) are the non-tarriff barriers. If we have a tariff free deal on manufactured goods but domestic sourcing on services (such as loss of financial passporting), then Brexit will be very good for the Eurozone, but not so good for us.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    Mr. Tokyo, the only surrender we accepted from Nazi Germany was unconditional, was it not?

    We can't compromise with ISIS/Daesh. They seek to commit genocide, crucify children, burn prisoners alive, and have industrial scale sexual slavery. Which part of that could we accept?

    We could negotiate on territory, though. Six feet of earth for every ISIS fighter.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,723
    OK, I can see problems too, but....
    http://www.newstatesman.com/2016/08/post-truth-v-tech-could-machines-help-us-call-out-politicians-and-journalists-lies
    looks interesting.
    Too late for Brexit unfortunately.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Just watching the weightlifting. Some guys are lifting 500lbs!
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    BREAKING: @NathanGillMEP to leave @UKIPWales assembly group to sit as independent


    ...but says he'll remain a UKIP MEP for Wales and leader of UKIP Wales.

    Which is astounding even for UKIP. Never mind post-truth, we're in a post-logic world.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,277

    Mr. Tokyo, the only surrender we accepted from Nazi Germany was unconditional, was it not?

    We can't compromise with ISIS/Daesh. They seek to commit genocide, crucify children, burn prisoners alive, and have industrial scale sexual slavery. Which part of that could we accept?

    We could negotiate on territory, though. Six feet of earth for every ISIS fighter.

    I suppose one should never say never, but it is nigh on impossible to see what there would be to negotiate over. ISIS want a worldwide Caliphate and think anyone who lives in UK should be killed (including fellow Muslims, who are living in sin amongst the infidels).
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    Mr. Eagles, Schrodinger's MEP?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,343

    Mr. Topping, who is this Roth chap, beyond being a German member of the Bundestag?

    Mr. Slackbladder, lies, you Blairite wrecker! The fiery enthusiasm of the proletariat for their tribune is undiminished by the scorn of capitalist pigdogs!

    Edited extra bit: ahem, wrote 'German MP' at first. Obviously an MdB is a German.

    He's Germany's Minister for Europe.

    So quite an important person when it comes to sorting out Brexit.
    Has he taken into account that we may not let them win a gold in cycling the next time if we fall out?
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    Mr. Eagles, Schrodinger's MEP?

    Another Brexiteer who says he wants to leave but is actually remaining.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151

    Mr. Tokyo, the only surrender we accepted from Nazi Germany was unconditional, was it not?

    That was the ultimate outcome although getting that meant negotiating with Stalin, who turns out to have had a less-than-ideal human rights record.

    Via Sinn Féin the British also negotiated with the IRA, who murdered British people routinely, probably including friends and colleagues of the people who did the negotiation on the British side.


    We can't compromise with ISIS/Daesh. They seek to commit genocide, crucify children, burn prisoners alive, and have industrial scale sexual slavery. Which part of that could we accept?

    I wouldn't suggest accepting any of that, but that doesn't mean talking to them won't produce anything useful. The IRA wanted a united Ireland, and they didn't get that.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,496
    Hopefully not Anna Soubry style.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,723
    John_M said:

    BREAKING: @NathanGillMEP to leave @UKIPWales assembly group to sit as independent


    ...but says he'll remain a UKIP MEP for Wales and leader of UKIP Wales.

    Which is astounding even for UKIP. Never mind post-truth, we're in a post-logic world.
    Follow the money?
    Don't UKIP need a certain number of MEPs to get Euro dosh?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    Mr. Tokyo, indeed, but with Stalin we were fighting the Third Reich, and the IRA did actually have a political aim for which discussion was possible, despite their reprehensible acts.

    ISIS/Daesh want the total subjugation of non-believers and/or their genocide.

    They're perhaps comparable to the Khmer Rouge and the Nazis, but not to the IRA.
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    DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038
    I think Trump is right to focus on the populism strategy but is it too late? https://twitter.com/costareports
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    edited August 2016
    Dadge said:

    I think Trump is right to focus on the populism strategy but is it too late? https://twitter.com/costareports

    Has he recruited Milo Yiannopoulos yet ?

    Would add to his team I think.

    My thinking is he might as well go all in on his populist/slightly loopy strat, Milo would be a good fit.
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    Ipsos Mori

    Labour supporters are more impressed with Theresa May than by their own party leader Jeremy Corbyn, an extraordinary poll reveals today.

    The finding by Ipsos MORI will en-courage Conservatives pushing for a snap general election if Mr Corbyn is reconfirmed as Labour leader next month.

    Some 45 per cent of Labour backers said they were satisfied with the way Mrs May was doing her job as PM.


    ...If a general election were held tomorrow, some 45 per cent say they would back the Tories, up nine points in a month and their biggest share since 2009. Labour is on 34, down one since July. Fifty-four per cent of the public are satisfied with Mrs May’s performance at No 10, with 19 per cent dissatisfied.


    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labour-supporters-more-impressed-with-theresa-may-than-with-jeremy-corbyn-poll-shows-a3322626.html
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,496

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I don't want free movement. I don't particularly want single market access either. It does them much more good than it does us - and they know it.

    Why wouldn't you want to give British businesses and citizens the widest choice of goods and services to buy possible?
    Why would they stop being able to buy stuff.
    Inside the single market, I could buy goods or services from a French or Spanish manufacturer on the same terms as a British one. We can - in addition, and as the Norwegians have done for example - sign additional free trade agreements with other countries.
    I haven't noticed any difficulty purchasing items from outside the EU. Wine from New Zealand, electronics from Korea and clothes from India seem to find their way into my shopping basket somehow.
    This might help your understanding.
    Thanks - a working link might have helped it even more.

    I am aware of what a tariff is, and the fact that it is applied on non-EU imports. Thankfully somehow the Chinese, Indians, Americans, and everyone else, have found a cunning way to overcome the extra pennies that are added to their products - producing goods and services that people want to buy. This perhaps could be something we try.

    Tariffs are fairly low via the WHO, but what can really clobber exports (both manufactured and service) are the non-tarriff barriers. If we have a tariff free deal on manufactured goods but domestic sourcing on services (such as loss of financial passporting), then Brexit will be very good for the Eurozone, but not so good for us.
    I appreciate that, but yet India is eating into our service industry jobs, not just help desks, but banking, and no doubt others too.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,723
    Dadge said:

    I think Trump is right to focus on the populism strategy but is it too late? https://twitter.com/costareports

    Hopefully, yes.
    But I'm a bit worried, Trump is up to 13.1 (from 11 if I recall correctly).
    http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo
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    I'm sure there's a straw for Justin to clutch in here somewhere

    Ipsos Mori changes

    Conservative 45% (+9)
    Labour 34% (-1)
    Lib Dem 7% (-4)
    UKIP 6% (-2)
    Green 4% (nc)
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,277

    Dadge said:

    I think Trump is right to focus on the populism strategy but is it too late? https://twitter.com/costareports

    Hopefully, yes.
    But I'm a bit worried, Trump is up to 13.1 (from 11 if I recall correctly).
    http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo
    I know, worrying, yesterday Hilary was touching 90%.
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    I'm sure there's a straw for Justin to clutch in here somewhere

    Ipsos Mori changes

    Conservative 45% (+9)
    Labour 34% (-1)
    Lib Dem 7% (-4)
    UKIP 6% (-2)
    Green 4% (nc)

    In 1896 there was similar polling and led to.....
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    Here's what Gideon Skinner from Ipsos Mori writes

    “It’s not unusual for a new Prime Minister to experience a honeymoon with voters, even if it doesn’t last, and Theresa May certainly seems to be enjoying one. What is notable though is the extent of her lead over her opponent Jeremy Corbyn in the way the public rates them in doing their job.”
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    I'm sure there's a straw for Justin to clutch in here somewhere

    Ipsos Mori changes

    Conservative 45% (+9)
    Labour 34% (-1)
    Lib Dem 7% (-4)
    UKIP 6% (-2)
    Green 4% (nc)

    In 1896 there was similar polling and led to.....
    If I'm honest, Labour polling what 3% above what they polled under Ed Milband in 2015 seems a bit of a stretch
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,277

    I'm sure there's a straw for Justin to clutch in here somewhere

    Ipsos Mori changes

    Conservative 45% (+9)
    Labour 34% (-1)
    Lib Dem 7% (-4)
    UKIP 6% (-2)
    Green 4% (nc)

    Corbyn doesn't even seem to be taking anymore Green votes. Which is odd as I've seen anecdotal stuff about activists leaving Greens for Corbyn-land, even recently. Maybe the voters themselves aren't persuaded, or maybe anyone who will shift vote has done so.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,855

    I'm sure there's a straw for Justin to clutch in here somewhere

    Ipsos Mori changes

    Conservative 45% (+9)
    Labour 34% (-1)
    Lib Dem 7% (-4)
    UKIP 6% (-2)
    Green 4% (nc)

    34% is a good score for Labour.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758

    I'm sure there's a straw for Justin to clutch in here somewhere

    Ipsos Mori changes

    Conservative 45% (+9)
    Labour 34% (-1)
    Lib Dem 7% (-4)
    UKIP 6% (-2)
    Green 4% (nc)

    Conservatives soar once rid of Osborne ?
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    I'm sure there's a straw for Justin to clutch in here somewhere

    Ipsos Mori changes

    Conservative 45% (+9)
    Labour 34% (-1)
    Lib Dem 7% (-4)
    UKIP 6% (-2)
    Green 4% (nc)

    Conservatives soar once rid of Osborne ?
    Next Wednesday or Thursday I shall be publishing an Osborne thread that might give you an aneurysm.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited August 2016
    On SPOTY - Murray has the advantage of remaining in the public eye through to voting in December.

    USOpen coming up, ATP tour finals in London and Davis Cup. If he wins at least 2 of the three his position as one of the favourites will be well justified.
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    JackW said:

    On SPOTY - Murray has the advantage of remaining in the public eye through to voting in December.

    USOpen coming up, ATP tour finals in London and Davis Cup. If he wins at least 2 of the three his position as on of the favourites will be well justified.

    Do you reckon he'll be getting a Knighthood in New Year's Honours List?
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    Just for context, in Aug 2011 Labour led by 6% with Ipsos Mori.

    Though there were a couple of extenuating circumstances
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    GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Owen Smith is a deeply unimpressive individual. He's a gaffe a week man. Negotiate with ISIS? Knock back Theresa May on her heels?

    Beyond a joke.

    The Labour party really should be finished now for presenting these two characters as future leaders of this country.
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    Theresa May is a pound shop David Cameron.

    David Cameron's Tories once led by 28% in an Ipsos Mori.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    On SPOTY - Murray has the advantage of remaining in the public eye through to voting in December.

    USOpen coming up, ATP tour finals in London and Davis Cup. If he wins at least 2 of the three his position as on of the favourites will be well justified.

    Do you reckon he'll be getting a Knighthood in New Year's Honours List?
    Not sure. Nailed on eventually.

    Dame and Knight for Trott/Kenny and Knight Mo too.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610

    I'm sure there's a straw for Justin to clutch in here somewhere

    Ipsos Mori changes

    Conservative 45% (+9)
    Labour 34% (-1)
    Lib Dem 7% (-4)
    UKIP 6% (-2)
    Green 4% (nc)

    Lib Dems, not winning here.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''USOpen coming up, ATP tour finals in London and Davis Cup. If he wins at least 2 of the three his position as one of the favourites will be well justified. ''

    Is there a market up in how much Hello will have to pay for the Kenney/Trott hitching?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Owen Smith is a deeply unimpressive individual. He's a gaffe a week man. Negotiate with ISIS? Knock back Theresa May on her heels?

    Beyond a joke.

    The Labour party really should be finished now for presenting these two characters as future leaders of this country.

    He negotiated for peace in NI too apparently - that's a new one for me.
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    To be fair the Tory lead is 'only' 5% before the filter kicks
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352

    I'm sure there's a straw for Justin to clutch in here somewhere

    Ipsos Mori changes

    Conservative 45% (+9)
    Labour 34% (-1)
    Lib Dem 7% (-4)
    UKIP 6% (-2)
    Green 4% (nc)

    In 1896 there was similar polling and led to.....
    If I'm honest, Labour polling what 3% above what they polled under Ed Milband in 2015 seems a bit of a stretch
    I'm having trouble believing Mori polls right now.
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    Southern Irish Olympic official arrested;
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-37107450
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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900

    Owen Smith is a deeply unimpressive individual.

    While clearly true, that still puts him a level above Corbyn.
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    MontyMonty Posts: 346
    Re Boris:
    The fat lying c*nt makes my skin crawl. So pleased he isn't PM.
    Incidentally, anyone know why Portillo seems to hold the same view? Is there history?
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    ArtistArtist Posts: 1,882
    The 34% includes a majority of Labour voters who aren't satisfied with the leader, so pretty tenuous.
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    Monty said:

    Re Boris:
    The fat lying c*nt makes my skin crawl. So pleased he isn't PM.
    Incidentally, anyone know why Portillo seems to hold the same view? Is there history?

    Yes, he was deeply unimpressed by Boris' conduct as a journalist whilst Portillo was Defence Secretary
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    PlatoSaid said:

    Owen Smith is a deeply unimpressive individual. He's a gaffe a week man. Negotiate with ISIS? Knock back Theresa May on her heels?

    Beyond a joke.

    The Labour party really should be finished now for presenting these two characters as future leaders of this country.

    He negotiated for peace in NI too apparently - that's a new one for me.
    Yes...

    He became a SpAd to Paul Murphy in 2002 (due to his family connections) - which was long after the Good Friday agreement had been signed and Murphy was still at the Welsh Office.

    He was also still working for Pfizer at the time.

    So how they hell can he claim that??

    Lying toad.

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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Steven Shepard looks at Trump's shrinking electoral map :

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/donald-trump-shrinking-election-map-227076
This discussion has been closed.