politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Owen Smith team says it has private LAB leadership poll wit

Something where we can beat the world at the Olympics - finishing fourth:

6: Great Britain

4: China; US

3: Australia

2: Italy, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Japan, Colombia

1: North Korea, Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland, Ukraine, India, Slovakia, Mexico, Spain, South Africa, Russia, Hungary, Netherlands, Kazakhstan, Dominica, Latvia, Ecuador

DanSmith said:

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 17m17 minutes ago
Corbyn won 58% of affiliated supporters last time. GMB members have backed Smith by 60-40.

But are the two comparable?

Was the GMB poll just for affiliated supporters? If not, there is no comparison to be made

The GMB members ballot is consistent with the polls that showed union members having no faith in Jeremy Corbyn from a month or two or so ago.

RobD said:

Dromedary said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Dromedary said:

RobD said:

Dromedary said:

I noted the sentence beginning "Actually, his blood pressure". Using a comma after the word "Actually" in that context is an example of a poor writing style. But exactly this ugly usage has appeared many times in Donald Trump's tweets.

You can verify that by running this search.

I though actually was an adverb, and you put a comma after all adverbs which start a sentence?

Nah. "Finally the moment arrived". "Often that's what I did". In most contexts, commas would look awful in those sentences. Do you want your reader to pause? Use a comma after "actually" if you want to emphasise "actually".

Citation needed

It's not a prescriptive rule. I'm just talking about style and effects. I haven't got sources to hand. I think any good writer on style who covers pace and punctuation would agree, so it's probably in, say, Joseph Williams's Towards Clarity and Grace, and in books by Jeanne Fahnestock and Martha Kolln. Just read "Often that's what I did" and "Often, that's what I did" and listen to your ear

I wasn't meaning to argue correctness. That Trump's usage is ugly is my opinion. That it's dismissive and haughty is more objective, because to put a comma after "actually" in such contexts makes the reader linger on it, and thereby emphasises it, and why?

Perhaps because he actually wanted to emphasise it?

Exactly.

But what are the chances that his medic similarly thumps the table all the time when he writes medical reports?

PS "Perhaps" is an adverb, so didn't you just break your own rule?

RobD said:

Dromedary said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Dromedary said:

RobD said:

Dromedary said:

I noted the sentence beginning "Actually, his blood pressure". Using a comma after the word "Actually" in that context is an example of a poor writing style. But exactly this ugly usage has appeared many times in Donald Trump's tweets.

You can verify that by running this search.

I though actually was an adverb, and you put a comma after all adverbs which start a sentence?

Nah. "Finally the moment arrived". "Often that's what I did". In most contexts, commas would look awful in those sentences. Do you want your reader to pause? Use a comma after "actually" if you want to emphasise "actually".

Citation needed

It's not a prescriptive rule. I'm just talking about style and effects. I haven't got sources to hand. I think any good writer on style who covers pace and punctuation would agree, so it's probably in, say, Joseph Williams's Towards Clarity and Grace, and in books by Jeanne Fahnestock and Martha Kolln. Just read "Often that's what I did" and "Often, that's what I did" and listen to your ear

I wasn't meaning to argue correctness. That Trump's usage is ugly is my opinion. That it's dismissive and haughty is more objective, because to put a comma after "actually" in such contexts makes the reader linger on it, and thereby emphasises it, and why?

Perhaps because he actually wanted to emphasise it?

Actually, perhaps it was because he wanted to emphasise it?

Dromedary said:

RobD said:

Dromedary said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Dromedary said:

RobD said:

Dromedary said:

I noted the sentence beginning "Actually, his blood pressure". Using a comma after the word "Actually" in that context is an example of a poor writing style. But exactly this ugly usage has appeared many times in Donald Trump's tweets.

You can verify that by running this search.

I though actually was an adverb, and you put a comma after all adverbs which start a sentence?

Nah. "Finally the moment arrived". "Often that's what I did". In most contexts, commas would look awful in those sentences. Do you want your reader to pause? Use a comma after "actually" if you want to emphasise "actually".

Citation needed

It's not a prescriptive rule. I'm just talking about style and effects. I haven't got sources to hand. I think any good writer on style who covers pace and punctuation would agree, so it's probably in, say, Joseph Williams's Towards Clarity and Grace, and in books by Jeanne Fahnestock and Martha Kolln. Just read "Often that's what I did" and "Often, that's what I did" and listen to your ear

I wasn't meaning to argue correctness. That Trump's usage is ugly is my opinion. That it's dismissive and haughty is more objective, because to put a comma after "actually" in such contexts makes the reader linger on it, and thereby emphasises it, and why?

Perhaps because he actually wanted to emphasise it?

Exactly.

But what are the chances that his medic similarly thumps the table all the time when he writes medical reports?

Given that the idea of putting a comma after an adverb is a common one, it is hardly a slam dunk that Trump wrote it.

RobD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Got to love judges

A judge stunned a courtroom by using the C-word as she jailed a racist thug.

Vile John Hennigan, 50, was being sentenced by Judge Patricia Lynch QC when he told her she was "a bit of a c***"

But, taking no prisoners, the judge immediately retorted: "You are a bit of a c*** yourself. Being offensive to me doesn't help."

Hennigan shouted back: "Go f*** yourself."

"You too," replied the judge.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/judge-tells-man-youre-bit-8600651#ICID=sharebar_twitter

She should have just upped his sentence by 10 years per insult.

As it is, his brief will no doubt be filing a claim for compensation for "hurt and distress caused to my client...."

Dromedary said:

rcs1000 said:

Re Trump: did anyone else read this https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/comic-riffs/wp/2016/03/21/donald-trump-will-win-in-a-landslide-the-mind-behind-dilbert-explains-why/

Yes, I read it some time ago. Trump's odds are way too long at the moment.

“The best Trump linguistic kill shots,” Adams writes,”have the following qualities: 1. Fresh word that is not generally used in politics; 2. Relates to the physicality of the subject (so you are always reminded).”

Indeed. Neurolinguistic programming (NLP) uses a similar notion that they call "anchoring".

“thinking past the sale” so the initial part of his premise is stated as a given

Again, spot on. For example in the latest hoohah the surface issue is whether Trump is encouraging violence; but the message that is cemented is "Hillary wants your guns".

It was always clear that this election was going to feature a huge dose of macho crap on the Republican side, and as Germaine Greer says, never underestimate that stuff.

If Trump survives the next few days, he's going to appear in the debates and do well in them, I reckon.

Have you read Robert Cialdini's book Influence? It's required reading in the field. It's up there with Ogilvy on Advertising.

Influence: the psychology of persuasion?

Yes, it's awesome

oxfordsimon said:

He can claim all he likes

But he will be lying.

There is nothing that can be extrapolated from a very small turnout result from one union. And he knows it.

It is not enough to stop Momentum. And he knows that too.

It is more accurate than Corbyn's claims of electoral success...

runnymede said:

<

You're living in the wrong part of the country, senor Llama - I have a very talented local stonemason who will work for a third of the price you've been paying. Getting on a bit in years but 'proper job' every time.

Since I moved back to the west country 15 years ago I reckon I pay on average about half for tradesmen that I used to in the home counties (roughly adjusting for inflation). Usually better work as well.

Fair go Mr. Mede and I would love to move out of the South East (actually I would hate the upheaval, the work and the cost, but needs must when the Devil drives). It is just that Herself and I cannot agree where to move to - Northumberland, Dorset, Central Portugal, Southern area of the Netherlands are all on the table we just can't make up our mind.

However, that has nothing to do with the supposed graduate premium, which I would argue for most students is non-existent and that they would be better off going into a trade. Actually, for most bright, fit but not academically gifted youngsters the best bet is to go in to HM Forces and let them teach you a trade while you have fun and adventure for a few years. E.g. the RN is desperate for engineers and will not only train youngsters but pay them well and send them off shagging and drinking around the world as part of the deal and with more sport than they can cope with. Got to better than £30k plus worth of debt for a crap degree from a crap Uni.

@SophyRidgeSky: Corbyn campaign source blames "certain right wing political officers" for GMB Owen Smith nomination https://t.co/YEdKC9INis

Scott_P said:

@SophyRidgeSky: Corbyn campaign source blames "certain right wing political officers" for GMB Owen Smith nomination https://t.co/YEdKC9INis

They think union officials are right wing? Christ, they must think I'm Ghengis Khan. Weird.

@SophyRidgeSky: According to Tom Watson, the following is being circulated by "Momentum members with links to far-left parties" https://t.co/5069jDqW3B

HurstLlama said:

runnymede said:

<

You're living in the wrong part of the country, senor Llama - I have a very talented local stonemason who will work for a third of the price you've been paying. Getting on a bit in years but 'proper job' every time.

Since I moved back to the west country 15 years ago I reckon I pay on average about half for tradesmen that I used to in the home counties (roughly adjusting for inflation). Usually better work as well.

Fair go Mr. Mede and I would love to move out of the South East (actually I would hate the upheaval, the work and the cost, but needs must when the Devil drives). It is just that Herself and I cannot agree where to move to - Northumberland, Dorset, Central Portugal, Southern area of the Netherlands are all on the table we just can't make up our mind.

However, that has nothing to do with the supposed graduate premium, which I would argue for most students is non-existent and that they would be better off going into a trade. Actually, for most bright, fit but not academically gifted youngsters the best bet is to go in to HM Forces and let them teach you a trade while you have fun and adventure for a few years. E.g. the RN is desperate for engineers and will not only train youngsters but pay them well and send them off shagging and drinking around the world as part of the deal and with more sport than they can cope with. Got to better than £30k plus worth of debt for a crap degree from a crap Uni.

Looking at this list, train driver seems to be an extraordinarily lucrative career:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-2269520/Best-paid-jobs-2012-Official-figures-national-average-UK-salaries-400-occupations.html

Scott_P said:

@SophyRidgeSky: According to Tom Watson, the following is being circulated by "Momentum members with links to far-left parties" https://t.co/5069jDqW3B

Is Tom Watson complaining about them borrowing his methods without a hat tip?

Scott_P said:

Watson tries to get Corbyn to condemn his own entryists...

@SophyRidgeSky: Watson has written to Corbyn asking him to confirm members of "far-left" parties shouldn't be able to join Labour https://t.co/AaoTZ3Kqt6

But surely if someone wants to give up their previous allegiance and join Labour, that is a good thing...

Converting people to your way of thinking is how politics works

Mr. D, paying Danegeld only leads to demands for larger quantities.

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. D, paying Danegeld only leads to demands for larger quantities.

Not paying tends to lead to pillaging and burning!

FeersumEnjineeya said:

HurstLlama said:

runnymede said:

<

You're living in the wrong part of the country, senor Llama - I have a very talented local stonemason who will work for a third of the price you've been paying. Getting on a bit in years but 'proper job' every time.

Since I moved back to the west country 15 years ago I reckon I pay on average about half for tradesmen that I used to in the home counties (roughly adjusting for inflation). Usually better work as well.

Fair go Mr. Mede and I would love to move out of the South East (actually I would hate the upheaval, the work and the cost, but needs must when the Devil drives). It is just that Herself and I cannot agree where to move to - Northumberland, Dorset, Central Portugal, Southern area of the Netherlands are all on the table we just can't make up our mind.

However, that has nothing to do with the supposed graduate premium, which I would argue for most students is non-existent and that they would be better off going into a trade. Actually, for most bright, fit but not academically gifted youngsters the best bet is to go in to HM Forces and let them teach you a trade while you have fun and adventure for a few years. E.g. the RN is desperate for engineers and will not only train youngsters but pay them well and send them off shagging and drinking around the world as part of the deal and with more sport than they can cope with. Got to better than £30k plus worth of debt for a crap degree from a crap Uni.

Looking at this list, train driver seems to be an extraordinarily lucrative career:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-2269520/Best-paid-jobs-2012-Official-figures-national-average-UK-salaries-400-occupations.html

I think £44K is a reasonable reward for a mainline train driver responsible for 500 passengers. It gets less justifiable when you are carrying 10 passengers on a branch line. Same issue for driver-only trains.

---

If you are advising a teenager who doesn't know what career to do, point him or her to this one:

40 Waste disposal and environmental services managers £45,982 15.7 (% increase since 2011)

It's an unglamorous but reasonably fulfilling job with 100% employment prospects after coming out of college

@GuidoFawkes: UKIP NEC Quitters Unresign: https://t.co/72SoFX6hbE https://t.co/yHlGna0b5I

Unbelievable, and yet somehow inevitable...

If this is the poll that I participated in on monday for YouGov, then I would be very wary of anyone getting too carried away on the betting front on the basis of this The questions seemed to me to be slightly loaded in favour of Smith.

It gave various statements which I regarded as leading questions and I was left with the impression that the poll was actually trying to change opinion rather than polling opinion. After each set of statements, it asked something along the lines of - after considering the previous question, now how would you vote? It felt like I was expected to change my mind.

It could just be an exercise by the Smith camp to try and find out which attack lines are the better ones to use as the campaign goes on.

I hope the results are printed in full, to enable others to see what I mean.

FeersumEnjineeya said:

HurstLlama said:

runnymede said:

<

You're living in the wrong part of the country, senor Llama - I have a very talented local stonemason who will work for a third of the price you've been paying. Getting on a bit in years but 'proper job' every time.

Since I moved back to the west country 15 years ago I reckon I pay on average about half for tradesmen that I used to in the home counties (roughly adjusting for inflation). Usually better work as well.

Fair go Mr. Mede and I would love to move out of the South East (actually I would hate the upheaval, the work and the cost, but needs must when the Devil drives). It is just that Herself and I cannot agree where to move to - Northumberland, Dorset, Central Portugal, Southern area of the Netherlands are all on the table we just can't make up our mind.

However, that has nothing to do with the supposed graduate premium, which I would argue for most students is non-existent and that they would be better off going into a trade. Actually, for most bright, fit but not academically gifted youngsters the best bet is to go in to HM Forces and let them teach you a trade while you have fun and adventure for a few years. E.g. the RN is desperate for engineers and will not only train youngsters but pay them well and send them off shagging and drinking around the world as part of the deal and with more sport than they can cope with. Got to better than £30k plus worth of debt for a crap degree from a crap Uni.

Looking at this list, train driver seems to be an extraordinarily lucrative career:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-2269520/Best-paid-jobs-2012-Official-figures-national-average-UK-salaries-400-occupations.html

@FeersumEnjineeya
That list is for years old and was probably complete boll***s when it was compiled.

@MarkHopkins
Lazy by the employers without a doubt. Such employers will go to the wall in due course (I bet every one that uses that sort of screening has a big HR department and a grand HQ building). The point is that is one has the earning potential of £2k per week then what some Doris in HR wants doesn't really matter.

Went out shopping in the nearest town today. There is a building site there that had a sign on the hoarding surrounding it, "Bricklayers wanted - £500 per week". That sign was there two months ago.

SimonStClare said:

oxfordsimon said:

If this and his 'private polling' is the best Smith can manage, things are bad in his camp.

Miliband also backed Smith – never underestimate the power of a failed leader’s endorsement.

He was doomed as soon as Jonah McTernan said he would win, that is the kiss of death.

BudG said:

If this is the poll that I participated in on monday for YouGov, then I would be very wary of anyone getting too carried away on the betting front on the basis of this The questions seemed to me to be slightly loaded in favour of Smith.

It gave various statements which I regarded as leading questions and I was left with the impression that the poll was actually trying to change opinion rather than polling opinion. After each set of statements, it asked something along the lines of - after considering the previous question, now how would you vote? It felt like I was expected to change my mind.

It could just be an exercise by the Smith camp to try and find out which attack lines are the better ones to use as the campaign goes on.

I hope the results are printed in full, to enable others to see what I mean.

I doubt that the poll actually exists, favourable private polls leaked by campaigns usually are non-existent.

Even if it does exist it probably was carried by Survation not Yougov, since Smith's phonebanks are located in their offices.

oxfordsimon said:

Scott_P said:

Watson tries to get Corbyn to condemn his own entryists...

@SophyRidgeSky: Watson has written to Corbyn asking him to confirm members of "far-left" parties shouldn't be able to join Labour https://t.co/AaoTZ3Kqt6

But surely if someone wants to give up their previous allegiance and join Labour, that is a good thing...

Converting people to your way of thinking is how politics works

Bear in mind that when you test our patience by posting things like that, no-one will believe you when you post things that you really do believe.

HurstLlama said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

HurstLlama said:

runnymede said:

<

You're living in the wrong part of the country, senor Llama - I have a very talented local stonemason who will work for a third of the price you've been paying. Getting on a bit in years but 'proper job' every time.

Since I moved back to the west country 15 years ago I reckon I pay on average about half for tradesmen that I used to in the home counties (roughly adjusting for inflation). Usually better work as well.

Fair go Mr. Mede and I would love to move out of the South East (actually I would hate the upheaval, the work and the cost, but needs must when the Devil drives). It is just that Herself and I cannot agree where to move to - Northumberland, Dorset, Central Portugal, Southern area of the Netherlands are all on the table we just can't make up our mind.

However, that has nothing to do with the supposed graduate premium, which I would argue for most students is non-existent and that they would be better off going into a trade. Actually, for most bright, fit but not academically gifted youngsters the best bet is to go in to HM Forces and let them teach you a trade while you have fun and adventure for a few years. E.g. the RN is desperate for engineers and will not only train youngsters but pay them well and send them off shagging and drinking around the world as part of the deal and with more sport than they can cope with. Got to better than £30k plus worth of debt for a crap degree from a crap Uni.

Looking at this list, train driver seems to be an extraordinarily lucrative career:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-2269520/Best-paid-jobs-2012-Official-figures-national-average-UK-salaries-400-occupations.html

@FeersumEnjineeya
That list is for years old and was probably complete boll***s when it was compiled.

@MarkHopkins
Lazy by the employers without a doubt. Such employers will go to the wall in due course (I bet every one that uses that sort of screening has a big HR department and a grand HQ building). The point is that is one has the earning potential of £2k per week then what some Doris in HR wants doesn't really matter.

Went out shopping in the nearest town today. There is a building site there that had a sign on the hoarding surrounding it, "Bricklayers wanted - £500 per week". That sign was there two months ago.

HurstLlama, your casual dismissal of my references while you offer none to support your own contentions is getting a bit tedious. Why do you think the list is bollocks? What do you think is likely to have changed over the last four years? Why should I simply take you at your word?

If Owen Who does win, at his first PMQ's Theresa May needs to get up and do a Farage...

Who are you? I've never heard you? The whole of the UK has never heard of you?

Mr. Gin, regardless of who wins, May's next PMQs could be interesting. Her approach last time was quite striking.

PlatoSaid said:

MarqueeMark said:

Something where we can beat the world at the Olympics - finishing fourth:

6: Great Britain

4: China; US

3: Australia

2: Italy, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Japan, Colombia

1: North Korea, Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland, Ukraine, India, Slovakia, Mexico, Spain, South Africa, Russia, Hungary, Netherlands, Kazakhstan, Dominica, Latvia, Ecuador

Ha!

Whilst you're about - do you know anything about the story that Suicide Squad was re-shot in large chunks to match the trailer as previewers didn't like the director's version? Read an interesting article about it, but wondered if it was anywhere near the truth.

Sorry, haven't heard about that. Heard plenty about Tulip Fever though, and why that still isn't getting a release....despite very favourable responses from those who saw an extended trailer.

GIN1138 said:

Owen Who?

Typical Labour bod, in how he'd leave the country - Owin' Trillions....

MP_SE said:

Interesting development.

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/763345197442793472

Don't post Fox News sources about Hillary, it's a shame that reduces the credibility of the poster.

I told off PB for using the National Review as a credible source against Trump.
It was debasing for the credibility of the writer and the site.

Never use naked partisan sources of questionable credibility.

Speedy said:

MP_SE said:

Interesting development.

ps://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/763345197442793472

Don't post Fox News sources about Hillary, it's a shame that reduces the credibility of the poster.

I told off PB for using the National Review as a credible source against Trump.
It was debasing for the credibility of the writer and the site.

Never use naked partisan sources of questionable credibility.

Who made you site editor?

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. D, time to build some burhs.

[Burhs were fortified towns whose people benefited from the defence they manned whilst also meaning there were safe places for the Saxon army to stop and the fyrd rotations system (I think it was by thirds or maybe halves) enabled easier raising of soldiers even during harvest time].

Halves, according to Wikipedia.

Speedy said:

MP_SE said:

Interesting development.

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/763345197442793472

Don't post Fox News sources about Hillary, it's a shame that reduces the credibility of the poster.

I told off PB for using the National Review as a credible source against Trump.
It was debasing for the credibility of the writer and the site.

Never use naked partisan sources of questionable credibility.

Most of the posters on here ruled out then?

SimonStClare said:

Speedy said:

MP_SE said:

Interesting development.

ps://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/763345197442793472

Don't post Fox News sources about Hillary, it's a shame that reduces the credibility of the poster.

I told off PB for using the National Review as a credible source against Trump.
It was debasing for the credibility of the writer and the site.

Never use naked partisan sources of questionable credibility.

Who made you site editor?

Partisan sources of questionable credibility should not be used if someone wants to present a credible case.

Regardless of being this site editor or not, which I'm not, Fox News is not a credible source regarding Hillary.

The average person will never believe it, simply because the news outlet that reports it is well known for it's extreme bias against democrats.

PlatoSaid said:

Speedy said:

MP_SE said:

Interesting development.

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/763345197442793472

Don't post Fox News sources about Hillary, it's a shame that reduces the credibility of the poster.

I told off PB for using the National Review as a credible source against Trump.
It was debasing for the credibility of the writer and the site.

Never use naked partisan sources of questionable credibility.

What pretentious tosh.

Fine.

You believe the crap from Fox News that Hillary murdered someone.

Speedy said:

SimonStClare said:

Speedy said:

MP_SE said:

Interesting development.

ps://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/763345197442793472

Don't post Fox News sources about Hillary, it's a shame that reduces the credibility of the poster.

I told off PB for using the National Review as a credible source against Trump.
It was debasing for the credibility of the writer and the site.

Never use naked partisan sources of questionable credibility.

Who made you site editor?

Partisan sources of questionable credibility should not be used if someone wants to present a credible case.

Bang goes PoliticalBetting.com

FeersumEnjineeya said:

HurstLlama, your casual dismissal of my references while you offer none to support your own contentions is getting a bit tedious. Why do you think the list is bollocks? What do you think is likely to have changed over the last four years? Why should I simply take you at your word?

Fair enough, old boy, you think my real world experience is tedious, ya'll get out there and give us some of your own.

Speedy said:

PlatoSaid said:

Speedy said:

MP_SE said:

Interesting development.

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/763345197442793472

Don't post Fox News sources about Hillary, it's a shame that reduces the credibility of the poster.

I told off PB for using the National Review as a credible source against Trump.
It was debasing for the credibility of the writer and the site.

Never use naked partisan sources of questionable credibility.

What pretentious tosh.

Fine.

You believe the crap from Fox News that Hillary murdered someone.

Typical troll stuff from Assange/Putin/Trump. Trump says something then one of his allies tries to pin it on someone else. It's laughable, you'd have to be pretty stupid not to realise what is being done.

Snopes - http://www.snopes.com/seth-conrad-rich/

oxfordsimon said:

nunu said:

oxfordsimon said:

DanSmith said:

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 17m17 minutes ago
Corbyn won 58% of affiliated supporters last time. GMB members have backed Smith by 60-40.

But are the two comparable?

Was the GMB poll just for affiliated supporters? If not, there is no comparison to be made

with such a low turnout it is likely only those that have a vote in the leadership battle actually voted.

There is absolutely no way of knowing that. None at all.

Common sense.

HurstLlama said:

FPT

Sorry just catching up. Re:Tradesmen's earnings versus the graduate premium, unless one is academically very gifted (i.e. about 10% f the young people university would seem a very bad deal compared to taking up a skilled trade).

I have just had the final bill from the chap who ripped out the old and put in a new bathroom - £4,220 for two week's work, that is labour only, materials plus, tiles, fittings etc were in addition. How many people, graduates or otherwise, earn £2,000 a week? The bloke concerned is a graduate and used to work installing and maintaining flight simulators for CAe, he switched to a job that earns him more and allows him to spend more time at home with wife and family. He doesn't advertise, but is now booked solid until mid-January 2017.

The fellow I found, after months of searching, to repoint one corner of the house (five days work at £300 a day) has now pulled out, better money on offer elsewhere. The qualified plumber we had in to re-jig the hot water system prior to the new bathroom, £400 a day. Electricians cost about the same is you can get one (fellow at the pub runs a spark's business, and is run off his feet, cannot recruit enough qualified people and, get this, can't find youngsters to take on as apprentices).

Graduate premium, my bottom. Ok, a sparks is a sparks, a plumber a plumber and there is no career ladder to climb. But at 2 grand a week who would worry.

Most plumbers are on mid £20k or a little above, of course the more people train as plumbers and electricians the less demand there will be for them and the few who are very highly paid will diminish rapidly

EPG said:

Anyone on PB have kids they told to go into a trade instead of going to university? What was the outcome?

* tumbleweed *

nunu said:

oxfordsimon said:

nunu said:

oxfordsimon said:

DanSmith said:

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 17m17 minutes ago
Corbyn won 58% of affiliated supporters last time. GMB members have backed Smith by 60-40.

But are the two comparable?

Was the GMB poll just for affiliated supporters? If not, there is no comparison to be made

with such a low turnout it is likely only those that have a vote in the leadership battle actually voted.

There is absolutely no way of knowing that. None at all.

Common sense.

No. Just speculation.

Indigo said:

EPG said:

Anyone on PB have kids they told to go into a trade instead of going to university? What was the outcome?

My son was going to go into the Army because he thought it would save him doing all that tedious studying for A'levels and at college. Then he discovered that he would have to spend a similar amount of effort getting really fit, which would take away time from playing games on his XBox, so now he is looking at doing A'levels again :rolleyes:

Five nephews: one brickie, one long distance lorry driver (but he's a trained joiner), one sports physio (with a national team), one software developer, one fashion designer. Middle two have degrees.

John_M said:

Indigo said:

EPG said:

Anyone on PB have kids they told to go into a trade instead of going to university? What was the outcome?

My son was going to go into the Army because he thought it would save him doing all that tedious studying for A'levels and at college. Then he discovered that he would have to spend a similar amount of effort getting really fit, which would take away time from playing games on his XBox, so now he is looking at doing A'levels again :rolleyes:

Five nephews: one brickie, one long distance lorry driver (but he's a trained joiner), one sports physio (with a national team), one software developer, one fashion designer. Middle two have degrees.

Which ones earn the most money?

538 indicate that Trump is polling fourth among AA voters, around 1-2% and has the worst position at this stage of election year since 1948 :

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-is-in-fourth-place-among-black-voters/

FeersumEnjineeya said:

John_M said:

Indigo said:

EPG said:

Anyone on PB have kids they told to go into a trade instead of going to university? What was the outcome?

My son was going to go into the Army because he thought it would save him doing all that tedious studying for A'levels and at college. Then he discovered that he would have to spend a similar amount of effort getting really fit, which would take away time from playing games on his XBox, so now he is looking at doing A'levels again :rolleyes:

Five nephews: one brickie, one long distance lorry driver (but he's a trained joiner), one sports physio (with a national team), one software developer, one fashion designer. Middle two have degrees.

Which ones earn the most money?

Software developer, brickie, lorry driver in that order. The other two are on pretty crap money.

John_M said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

John_M said:

Indigo said:

EPG said:

Anyone on PB have kids they told to go into a trade instead of going to university? What was the outcome?

My son was going to go into the Army because he thought it would save him doing all that tedious studying for A'levels and at college. Then he discovered that he would have to spend a similar amount of effort getting really fit, which would take away time from playing games on his XBox, so now he is looking at doing A'levels again :rolleyes:

Five nephews: one brickie, one long distance lorry driver (but he's a trained joiner), one sports physio (with a national team), one software developer, one fashion designer. Middle two have degrees.

Which ones earn the most money?

Software developer, brickie, lorry driver in that order. The other two are on pretty crap money.

That's what I would have guessed, though I imagine fashion designer is one of those trades which is usually badly paid, apart from an elite few who can earn shedloads. Edit: And I suppose that sports physio is one of those jobs done more for the glamour than the money.

John_M said:

Indigo said:

EPG said:

Anyone on PB have kids they told to go into a trade instead of going to university? What was the outcome?

My son was going to go into the Army because he thought it would save him doing all that tedious studying for A'levels and at college. Then he discovered that he would have to spend a similar amount of effort getting really fit, which would take away time from playing games on his XBox, so now he is looking at doing A'levels again :rolleyes:

Five nephews: one brickie, one long distance lorry driver (but he's a trained joiner), one sports physio (with a national team), one software developer, one fashion designer. Middle two have degrees.

Middle two, out of five?