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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    justin124 said:

    They would still have to fight the by election as Independent Labour or whatever, but if re-elected - as I would expect them to be - they would be well placed to win again in 2020. Moreover, if the boundary changes do go through deselection will not arise until 2019 - so that any consequential by elections will still be well remembered in May 2020.
    I agree with that, for those MPs who are well respected locally and have enough of a personal vote to see them through as independents. That won't be all of them though.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,163
    Sandpit said:

    It wasn't put to a vote last time, as the LDs flounced on their promise to support it when the AV referendum failed to deliver the 'right' result.

    I would have thought that the Government whips will be working very hard to get this through, as the rebalancing is likely to favour them as a party at the next election, although it way well cost a couple of seats in Wales.

    Expect a load of old duffers (Ken Clarke etc) to announce their retirement, and expect a few more to be suitably honoured with Knighthoods or Lordships for their service either before or after the election. I'm not personally a huge fan of this sort of patronage, but we have to take the world as it is and the whips will use all the levers they have available to get the boundary revisions through.
    I wouldn't be surprised if Corbyn is also persuaded to support it as a means of clearing out PLP malcontents. Obviously, that doesn't mean his MPs would follow but quite a few would.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    BREAKING NEWS: Algerian passenger jet heading to Marseilles declares a mid-air emergency over the Mediterranean and is returning to Algiers

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3726860/Air-Algeria-flight-Marseilles-declared-mid-air-emergency-vanishes-radar-Mediterranean.html

    Planes always 'Vanish' from radar about where this one was last seen, as there's a big black spot over the sea. It did declare an emergency and was returning to Algiers though. Hopefully know more soon one way or the other.

    Link to discussion on pilots' forum: http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/582632-air-algerie-flight-declares-emergency-radar-signal-reportedly-lost.html
  • Sandpit said:

    Planes always 'Vanish' from radar about where this one was last seen, as there's a big black spot over the sea. It did declare an emergency and was returning to Algiers though. Hopefully know more soon one way or the other.

    Link to discussion on pilots' forum: http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/582632-air-algerie-flight-declares-emergency-radar-signal-reportedly-lost.html
    Reports that it has landed safely in Algiers, lets hope so.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Ho hum

    #BREAKING: 2 Belgian police officers wounded in #machete attack, assailant shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’ https://t.co/QyRMSFQs4f #Belgium
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    I wouldn't be surprised if Corbyn is also persuaded to support it as a means of clearing out PLP malcontents. Obviously, that doesn't mean his MPs would follow but quite a few would.
    Yes, I was thinking the same about Corbyn, but also that the govt would be mad to rely on any Opposition votes for this one - remembering Ed Miliband and the Syria vote as a recent example of that folly.

    AIUI there's one Commons vote and that's it, if the vote falls then we keep the old boundaries and 650 MPs again for the 2020 election.
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Ho hum

    #BREAKING: 2 Belgian police officers wounded in #machete attack, assailant shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’ https://t.co/QyRMSFQs4f #Belgium

    Man with mental health condition known locally as Fred?
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592
    PlatoSaid said:

    Ho hum

    #BREAKING: 2 Belgian police officers wounded in #machete attack, assailant shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’ https://t.co/QyRMSFQs4f #Belgium

    The mental illness epidemic continues
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Reports that it has landed safely in Algiers, lets hope so.
    Looks that way. Good news.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,384
    Mr. Maaarsh, Attack of the Davids, indeed.
  • justin124 said:

    They are not due to be placed before Parliament until Autumn 2018.
    Yes, found the statement "Final recommendations must be submitted to the Parliament in September 2018". But it will become clear much by the start of 2018 what 90%+ of the boundaries will look like.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Good afternoon all. I guess it's me but watching the Rio Olympics is leaving me cold. Indeed it's getting bloody boring. Any decent sport would walk away from the present Olympic Movement.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    maaarsh said:

    The mental illness epidemic continues
    I believe it's Arabic for "where's my anti-psychotic medication?"
  • The reduction of seats (like Article 50 invokation and TSE's AV thread) is always in a future that never arrives. It is not something that the public get concerned about, but agitates a lot of MPs including many Tories. I suspect that it will be kicked into the long grass once more.
    Why cause needless trouble and distraction amongst your lobby fodder when trying to pass contentious legislation on a wafer thin majority?
    The process is so long that Mrs May has to change the terms this year (such as stick with 650). She really must get the boundaries updated to reduce the inbuilt advantage Labour have.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited August 2016
    Cricviz has the draw at 63%. I don't think that is anywhere near accurate.
  • maaarsh said:

    The mental illness epidemic continues
    Islam = mental illness is not the conclusion people should be drawing.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Inside the Games
    Quite brilliant, if true: Reports claim #olympic kayaker capsized due to hitting submerged sofa in water https://t.co/e9VNYdgRpj #Rio2016
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,058

    The process is so long that Mrs May has to change the terms this year (such as stick with 650). She really must get the boundaries updated to reduce the inbuilt advantage Labour have.
    Does Labour have any meaningful advantage in terms of votes per seat anymore? I thought that the loss of the Scotland to the SNP had evened it out.
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Inside the Games
    Quite brilliant, if true: Reports claim #olympic kayaker capsized due to hitting submerged sofa in water https://t.co/e9VNYdgRpj #Rio2016

    They had an interview with the windsurfers the other day & it sounded like they spent more time trying to avoid the plastic bags & other crap than anything else.
  • God i dont know how many mirrors Richie porte has broken but after tour de France problems he has had 2 problems already today.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Cricviz has the draw at 63%. I don't think that is anywhere near accurate.

    All three (four, even!) results still very much possible, I'd probably favour Pakistan from here but the draw gets shorter all the time England are still batting.

    Interestingly Betfair have the draw odds-on at 1.6, in line with Cricviz, with England at 3.4 and Pakistan at 10.5. I'm betting on the visitors at those odds.
  • Sandpit said:

    All three (four, even!) results still very much possible, I'd probably favour Pakistan from here but the draw gets shorter all the time England are still batting.

    Interestingly Betfair have the draw odds-on at 1.6, in line with Cricviz, with England at 3.4 and Pakistan at 10.5. I'm betting on the visitors at those odds.

    Cricviz Pakistan win percentage at 10% is way too low.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Sandpit said:

    Planes always 'Vanish' from radar about where this one was last seen, as there's a big black spot over the sea. It did declare an emergency and was returning to Algiers though. Hopefully know more soon one way or the other.

    Link to discussion on pilots' forum: http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/582632-air-algerie-flight-declares-emergency-radar-signal-reportedly-lost.html
    Reported to have landed in Algiers & pax transferred to later flights
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    Islam = mental illness is not the conclusion people should be drawing.
    I think someone was being sarcastic. Radical Islam is certainly a mental Illness. At least if it isn't how would you describe it?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Islam = mental illness is not the conclusion people should be drawing.
    What do you mean by that?
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    PlatoSaid said:

    Ho hum

    #BREAKING: 2 Belgian police officers wounded in #machete attack, assailant shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’ https://t.co/QyRMSFQs4f #Belgium

    Norwegian perchance?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    rcs1000 said:

    Does Labour have any meaningful advantage in terms of votes per seat anymore? I thought that the loss of the Scotland to the SNP had evened it out.
    9,347,304 votes, 232 seats = 40,000 votes/seat

    11,334,576 votes, 330 seats = 34,000 votes/seat

    So nationwide the advantage is with the Tories.

    I suspect on those figures it is close in England.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,503
    BBC gloating over a Ched Evans miss at Oxford.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,504

    Man with mental health condition known locally as Fred?
    Clearly a spontaneous event. No evidence of radicalisation.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited August 2016


    Cricviz Pakistan win percentage at 10% is way too low.
    Agree completely. That 10% will go up with every wicket. I'd say it should be about 35% now, with England 25% and the draw 40%
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Norwegian perchance?
    I reckon the attacker was actually Hawaiian - he was shouting Aloha Arthur!
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    tlg86 said:

    BBC gloating over a Ched Evans miss at Oxford.

    The BBC is not a nice extreme left-wing social and political organisation.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Clearly a spontaneous event. No evidence of radicalisation.
    Hacks everywhere will be checking the Amazon/Good Reads recommendations right now.
  • Sandpit said:

    That 10% will go up with every wicket. I'd say it should be about 35% now, with England 25% and the draw 40%
    That is my issue with their model. Wicket(S) should always be factored in, but I have seen their model understate this...the first test being a good example , where 2 quick wickets of England cause a massive swing.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071


    Cricviz Pakistan win percentage at 10% is way too low.
    *cough* Ballance *cough*
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited August 2016
    MikeK said:

    Good afternoon all. I guess it's me but watching the Rio Olympics is leaving me cold. Indeed it's getting bloody boring. Any decent sport would walk away from the present Olympic Movement.

    Championship football season started today and Community Shield tommorow, so real sport coming.

    The bookies still havent caught up with Leicester being champions. In PP handicap betting Leicester plus 20 points is 16/1 (and they do ew too). Not bad for the team that were Champions by a clear 10 points. West Ham and Everton are +22 at 16/1 too.

    I would suggest that Ahmed Musa at 50/1 with an ew to the top 6 places is value too. Watch his two goals against Barca on Wed for a glimpse of him.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited August 2016
    On cue....wicket...causes a 15% increase in Pakistan win % on cricviz. 10% -> 25% given one wicket which can occur every ball is too big a swing in the probabilities.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,503
    Oh dear, Balance falling into the trap again.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    There's the wicket, and Pakistan go in from 10 to 6 on Betfair :D
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    PlatoSaid said:

    I reckon the attacker was actually Hawaiian - he was shouting Aloha Arthur!
    DYK, Aloha can mean both hello and goodbye - hope Arthur wasn’t on his balcony waving...
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592

    Championship football season started today and Community Shield tommorow, so real sport coming.

    The bookies still havent caught up with Leicester being champions. In PP handicap betting Leicester plus 20 points is 16/1 (and they do ew too). Not bad for the team that were Champions by a clear 10 points. West Ham and Everton are +22 at 16/1 too.

    I would suggest that Ahmed Musa at 50/1 with an ew to the top 6 places is value too. Watch his two goals against Barca on Wed for a glimpse of him.
    The opening prices reflected last year a bit more, but then everyone saw how ordinary Leicester looked in pre-season and assumed lightning won't strike twice.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,384
    Miss Plato, don't be silly.

    He was probably a Hawaiian Star Wars enthusiast who passed a calamari restaurant and was shouting "Aloha Akbar!".
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    DYK, Aloha can mean both hello and goodbye - hope Arthur wasn’t on his balcony waving...
    I'd a very pretty kitty called Aloha :love:
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited August 2016

    Miss Plato, don't be silly.

    He was probably a Hawaiian Star Wars enthusiast who passed a calamari restaurant and was shouting "Aloha Akbar!".

    The Days Since Last Terror Attack meme isn't getting much exercise nowadays.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,504
    PlatoSaid said:

    Hacks everywhere will be checking the Amazon/Good Reads recommendations right now.
    I suspect the real meaning of that formulation used by the police in the Russell Square stabbing is:

    - Evidence of radicalisation = on our list
    - No evidence of radicalisation = not on our list

    Not reassuring either way.
  • Hmmm interesting...froome bike change ...some clever tactics?
  • I hope froome & Thomas don't get penalised for this blatant drifting behind the cars.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    I suspect the real meaning of that formulation used by the police in the Russell Square stabbing is:

    - Evidence of radicalisation = on our list
    - No evidence of radicalisation = not on our list

    Not reassuring either way.
    Indeed - given that a simple Google search of the Russell Sq murderer's name threw up his recent reading material... and he's the only one called that resident in the UK... HeatSt really threw the spotlight on this - well done to them.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited August 2016
    I wish the media would report accurately what Allah Akbar actually means. It doesn't mean god is great...it means god is the greatest / god is greater ie nothing is greater than god himself.

    Subtle but important difference.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,503
    weejonnie said:

    The BBC is not a nice extreme left-wing social and political organisation.
    Evans got the equalizer for Chesterfield so he's had a decent start in the end.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited August 2016
    Protest and vigil mark fifth anniversary of Mark Duggan death
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36996466

    Poor wee angelic mark duggan...no justice... Hillsborough is ain't.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Protest and vigil mark fifth anniversary of Mark Duggan death
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36996466

    Poor wee angelic mark duggan...no justice... Hillsborough is ain't.

    Do you have a linky to the uncropped pix?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited August 2016

    Miss Plato, don't be silly.

    He was probably a Hawaiian Star Wars enthusiast who passed a calamari restaurant and was shouting "Aloha Akbar!".

    Actually, what he shouted was Al Harken is at the bar, which means in the full Arabic vernacular; "Come with me for a drink, which is against our holy law, but f**k it."
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited August 2016
    PlatoSaid said:

    Do you have a linky to the uncropped pix?
    It isn't that interesting...his supporters claim the media fitted him up because they cropped a photo of him holding a heart...but of course they don't like to tell you that actually they are doing him a favour as they could have picked from a whole load of gang ones.

    If you google image search you will see what I mean.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    I am interested in this idea that someone can't both be mentally ill and an Islamic extremist.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    I wish the media would report accurately what Allah Akbar actually means. It doesn't mean god is great...it means god is the greatest / god is greater ie nothing is greater than god himself.

    Subtle but important difference.

    Very true, and pretty much the same form of words appears in the prayers of all major religions.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    England turning it up a little now, past their own first innings score with a lead of 210 - and still five wickets remaining.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Sandpit said:

    Very true, and pretty much the same form of words appears in the prayers of all major religions.
    The shot attacker is no longer with us #NoViolins
  • Sandpit said:

    England turning it up a little now, past their own first innings score with a lead of 210 - and still five wickets remaining.

    Cook will be looking for at least 500 before declaring ;-)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited August 2016
    I know said this before but Rio really is a spectacular city. Won't be going mind you, between zika & gang violence & general very high level of crime.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,384
    edited August 2016
    Mr. Freggles, question of emphasis. Not only that, mentally ill lone attacks are a different kettle of monkeys to a spate of psychopaths who are killing in the name of their god.

    It would be a bit like focusing on Catholicism rather than Republicanism when looking at the IRA. Yes, there's a big overlap. But the key aspect is the political belief, not the religion.

    There's also the motive for reporting things in a certain way. Given cover-ups and misreporting over Cologne, Rotherham, the Munich murderer and, perhaps, the Russell Square lunatic it's indicative that the authorities seem willing to put political correctness ahead of honesty, at least in some cases.

    Edited extra bit: finickity, but I was errant to use the term 'psychopaths'. They're highly intelligent and have a survival instinct, so they're unlikely to kill themselves or kill in a way which makes their capture/death probable.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Their leader in Scotland, Willie Rennie, seems a fairly affable bloke and had a reasonably high profile campaign.
    And as a straight white male has a unique selling point as party leader in Scotland.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited August 2016
    Oh dear Cummings has blown up.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    PlatoSaid said:

    The shot attacker is no longer with us #NoViolins
    Rest in peace, man locally known as Dave...
  • I know said this before but Rio really is a spectacular city. Won't be going mind you, between zika & gang violence & general very high level of crime.

    When I went out there some years ago, our head of security warned me that our internal auditors had been attacked by a gang of twelve years olds as they were walking from their hotel to a restaurant.

    The local office staff were always concerned that I only travelled in taxis driven by people that they knew and trusted.

    Spectacular scenery though, if you can get away from the office. I stayed in a company flat just off Ipanema the first visit and a hotel overlooking Copacabana the second visit. Tough job.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    A lot of truck drivers

    Most common job by US state, 2014. https://t.co/6QQZqZnSWZ #maps https://t.co/JTtVyrcRt7
  • When I went out there some years ago, our head of security warned me that our internal auditors had been attacked by a gang of twelve years olds as they were walking from their hotel to a restaurant.

    The local office staff were always concerned that I only travelled in taxis driven by people that they knew and trusted.

    Spectacular scenery though, if you can get away from the office. I stayed in a company flat just off Ipanema the first visit and a hotel overlooking Copacabana the second visit. Tough job.
    Sad state of affairs...with good government / major social change it could be one of the world best cites . Makes places like Vancouver's scenery look very ordinary.
  • Has geraint Thomas gone too early again like last week?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    PlatoSaid said:

    A lot of truck drivers

    Most common job by US state, 2014. https://t.co/6QQZqZnSWZ #maps https://t.co/JTtVyrcRt7

    Someone has to deliver the goods from the warehouse to the doorstep.
  • Sad state of affairs...with good government / major social change it could be one of the world best cites . Makes places like Vancouver's scenery look very ordinary.
    It is said of Brazil that it has tremendous potential - and always will have.
  • It is said of Brazil that it has tremendous potential - and always will have.
    Columbia is another where that is true. Has everything except steady secure society.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited August 2016

    It is said of Brazil that it has tremendous potential - and always will have.
    City of God is one of the most memorable and depressing films I've seen.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,503
    PlatoSaid said:

    A lot of truck drivers

    Most common job by US state, 2014. https://t.co/6QQZqZnSWZ #maps https://t.co/JTtVyrcRt7

    I guess there aren't too many subdivisions of truck drivers.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    When I went out there some years ago, our head of security warned me that our internal auditors had been attacked by a gang of twelve years olds as they were walking from their hotel to a restaurant.

    The local office staff were always concerned that I only travelled in taxis driven by people that they knew and trusted.

    Spectacular scenery though, if you can get away from the office. I stayed in a company flat just off Ipanema the first visit and a hotel overlooking Copacabana the second visit. Tough job.
    Given that Brazil is a country with very little economic mobility, the only way for a brazilian poor person to get money would be from illegal activities.

    In fact I don't know of a brazilian who has made his fortune by strictly legal means, not surprising then that their entire Legislature is under investigation for a variety of crimes including murder.

    If Brazil was not occupied by brazilians it would have been a nice country.
  • Speedy said:

    Given that Brazil is a country with very little economic mobility, the only way for a brazilian poor person to get money would be from illegal activities.

    In fact I don't know of a brazilian who has made his fortune by strictly legal means, not surprising then that their entire Legislature is under investigation for a variety of crimes including murder.

    If Brazil was not occupied by brazilians it would have been a nice country.
    There's no such thing as an honest penny, whether in Brazil or anywhere else.

  • England giving some serious tonk now.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009
    Alistair said:

    And as a straight white male has a unique selling point as party leader in Scotland.
    As a politician he is a total dud though
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Columbia is another where that is true. Has everything except steady secure society.
    The society built by spanish and portuguese colonials is to blame.

    The reasons why all of latin america is held back is because they inherited the feudalist social and economic structure of 18th century Iberia.

    They are a living fossil of pre-enlightenment society.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,503

    England giving some serious tonk now.

    They should declare.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,014
    weejonnie said:

    I think someone was being sarcastic. Radical Islam is certainly a mental Illness. At least if it isn't how would you describe it?
    You added the word radical.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,234

    I wish the media would report accurately what Allah Akbar actually means. It doesn't mean god is great...it means god is the greatest / god is greater ie nothing is greater than god himself.

    Subtle but important difference.

    It's also Flemish for "Our care in the community programme is clearly broken...."
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,384
    Mr. Speedy, there was an interesting series by Niall Ferguson on economic history about the difference between North and South America which made the same point.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,583
    edited August 2016
    john_zims said:

    @HYUFD

    For the moment I can't see the LDs rising that much in the polls unless Brexit also leads to the UK leaving the Single Market too in which large numbers of moderate Tories and Labour voters who voted Remain may well move to the yellows'


    But if we had left the single market what would a protest vote for the Lib Dems achieve?
    Are they seriously going to propose re-joining the EU with Shengen, the Euro & no rebate, even the 20% or so EU fanatics would find that a hard sell.

    They would focus first on rejoining the single market and then build up from there, if we do leave the single market and we enter a recession as a result that platform would have many voters ready to support it
  • Oh shit, gone to get my ticket for tomorrow and the server has gone into meltdown....
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    It's also Flemish for "Our care in the community programme is clearly broken...."
    :lol:

    These universal phrases are so prone to misinterpretation.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Sandpit said:

    It wasn't put to a vote last time, as the LDs flounced on their promise to support it when the AV referendum failed to deliver the 'right' result.

    I would have thought that the Government whips will be working very hard to get this through, as the rebalancing is likely to favour them as a party at the next election, although it way well cost a couple of seats in Wales.

    Expect a load of old duffers (Ken Clarke etc) to announce their retirement, and expect a few more to be suitably honoured with Knighthoods or Lordships for their service either before or after the election. I'm not personally a huge fan of this sort of patronage, but we have to take the world as it is and the whips will use all the levers they have available to get the boundary revisions through.
    I assure you it was put to a vote and comfortably defeated!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,583
    justin124 said:

    I would expect another challenge next year - though without a No Confidence Vote by the PLP next time.Little risk of losing to UKIP which is in disarray itself. anyway. Next year we will be in midterm with the economy perhaps looking sick, if Labour fails to progress under those circumstances many members currently sympathetic to Corbyn might take a different view. I suspect that at some point the penny will drop !
    The problem is many members of Labour put ideology before electability. If May keeps us in the single market after Brexit with controlled free movement then UKIP may start to rise in the polls under Diane James of whoever their leader turns out to be (and if not a Farage/Woolfe led party may do so again)
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    WTF

    Reports in last 30mins of controlled explosion at #Cycling and live bullets flying through #equestrian media centre https://t.co/0jz0ormip6
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited August 2016
    maaarsh said:

    The opening prices reflected last year a bit more, but then everyone saw how ordinary Leicester looked in pre-season and assumed lightning won't strike twice.
    I am not expecting them to win this year, but a 20 point handicap plus ew (top 4 places)at 4/1 looks value. Bear in mind our pre season was Celtic, PSG and Barca!
  • PlatoSaid said:

    WTF

    Reports in last 30mins of controlled explosion at #Cycling and live bullets flying through #equestrian media centre https://t.co/0jz0ormip6

    They have said the cycling was one the plod blowing up a left bag. False alarm.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,583
    edited August 2016

    When I went out there some years ago, our head of security warned me that our internal auditors had been attacked by a gang of twelve years olds as they were walking from their hotel to a restaurant.

    The local office staff were always concerned that I only travelled in taxis driven by people that they knew and trusted.

    Spectacular scenery though, if you can get away from the office. I stayed in a company flat just off Ipanema the first visit and a hotel overlooking Copacabana the second visit. Tough job.
    I know of ex pats Brits who have married Brazilians and have a very nice life in Brazil, their UK savings go much further there, the weather is good and the scenery spectacular and there are fantastic beaches too. Probably best to live in a gated community though if you can because of the crime
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    MPs "personal votes" are rarely more than a few thousand. Those that resign then stand again are Turkeys voting for Christmas.
    I refer you to the by elections at Lincoln - Clacton - Rochester & Strood. Also Labour Independents holding Blyth and Merthyr Tydfil.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,314
    justin124 said:

    I assure you it was put to a vote and comfortably defeated!
    Only four Tories voted against it (or actually, for the amendment): David Davis, Philip Davies, Richard Shepherd and John Baron.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    They have said the cycling was one the plod blowing up a left bag. False alarm.
    Apparently the gunfire around equestrian centre was shooting of local drug lord outside and reprisals!
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Mr. Speedy, there was an interesting series by Niall Ferguson on economic history about the difference between North and South America which made the same point.

    It's one of the reasons to be skeptical of immigration.

    The problems that cause immigrants to leave to new lands simply immigrate with them too, and can persist even for centuries afterwards in their new homeland, proving in many cases that's the culture of immigrants that's at fault.

    Immigrating to new places will not improve things, it's how they learn to do things.

    There is a need for cultural assimilation and long term educational improvement.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,314
    justin124 said:

    I refer you to the by elections at Lincoln - Clacton - Rochester & Strood. Also Labour Independents holding Blyth and Merthyr Tydfil.
    For Clacton and Rochester & Strood they weren't standing as Independents, but for other parties, which is quite different.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    justin124 said:

    I refer you to the by elections at Lincoln - Clacton - Rochester & Strood. Also Labour Independents holding Blyth and Merthyr Tydfil.
    At the GE the kipper majority dropped significantly and we know what happened in Rochester. It is possible to win the bye-election, but the way people vote in a GE is different.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    PlatoSaid said:

    WTF

    Reports in last 30mins of controlled explosion at #Cycling and live bullets flying through #equestrian media centre https://t.co/0jz0ormip6

    I told you our athletes will deserve a metal if they come back from Brazil alive.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    RobD said:

    Only four Tories voted against it (or actually, for the amendment): David Davis, Philip Davies, Richard Shepherd and John Baron.
    Yes - but a few others abstained. Moreover it was widely expected that the proposals would fall due to LibDem opposition. It has been suggested that had that not been so there would have been more Tory rebels.
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