politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Alastair Meeks argues that any cuts or tax rises caused by
Comments
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No. that's the body which manages crosswordsTheScreamingEagles said:
Showing your age there, it hasn't been the Monopoly and Mergers Commission for years.Alanbrooke said:
worse - why is there onlly one Monoply and Metgers Commission ?SandyRentool said:
And why isn't monosyllabic monosyllabic?GeoffM said:
For people with speech impediments the word "lisp" is an incredibly unfortunate description.MarkHopkins said:TheScreamingEagles said:
You are no longer allowed to have a British passport.RobD said:
Sorry.. blame the iPhone dictionary which I have set on American.SimonStClare said:
'color' Mr D ?RobD said:
You mean the current color, this is just the Sun's campaign, not an official announcement (we haven't left yet, for starters)Speedy said:
Burgundy looks better than blue I think.Pulpstar said:
Ah yes THIS is what people voted Brexit for !Scott_P said:
twitter.com/mrdavidwhitley/status/761572757373067264Pulpstar said:I reckon the simplest solution to this whole thing would be:
Brexiteers get to have the shiny black passports, real gold plating on the front, a slightly inconvienent oversize - but doubtless a feeling of "sovereignty". It says Great Britain, no mention of the EU anywhere.
Couldn't they keep the previous colour ?
I fear long term exposure to our cousins across the pond is having a detrimental effect.
Next you'll be calling your mobile a cellphone.
OMG, given your profession, you don't call it math (sic) do you?
I prefer saying math. Much easier than trying to pronounce 'th' & 's' together.
They call themselves The Competition and Markets Authority these days.0 -
That's only dipping the thing in glitter.TheScreamingEagles said:
Showing your age there, it hasn't been the Monopoly and Mergers Commission for years.Alanbrooke said:
worse - why is there onlly one Monoply and Metgers Commission ?SandyRentool said:
And why isn't monosyllabic monosyllabic?GeoffM said:
For people with speech impediments the word "lisp" is an incredibly unfortunate description.MarkHopkins said:TheScreamingEagles said:
You are no longer allowed to have a British passport.RobD said:
Sorry.. blame the iPhone dictionary which I have set on American.SimonStClare said:
'color' Mr D ?RobD said:
You mean the current color, this is just the Sun's campaign, not an official announcement (we haven't left yet, for starters)Speedy said:
Burgundy looks better than blue I think.Pulpstar said:
Ah yes THIS is what people voted Brexit for !Scott_P said:
twitter.com/mrdavidwhitley/status/761572757373067264Pulpstar said:I reckon the simplest solution to this whole thing would be:
Brexiteers get to have the shiny black passports, real gold plating on the front, a slightly inconvienent oversize - but doubtless a feeling of "sovereignty". It says Great Britain, no mention of the EU anywhere.
Couldn't they keep the previous colour ?
I fear long term exposure to our cousins across the pond is having a detrimental effect.
Next you'll be calling your mobile a cellphone.
OMG, given your profession, you don't call it math (sic) do you?
I prefer saying math. Much easier than trying to pronounce 'th' & 's' together.
They call themselves The Competition and Markets Authority these days.
It still smells the same.0 -
Monopoly and Mergers works better for the joke, though...TheScreamingEagles said:
Showing your age there, it hasn't been the Monopoly and Mergers Commission for years.Alanbrooke said:
worse - why is there onlly one Monoply and Metgers Commission ?SandyRentool said:
And why isn't monosyllabic monosyllabic?GeoffM said:
For people with speech impediments the word "lisp" is an incredibly unfortunate description.MarkHopkins said:TheScreamingEagles said:
You are no longer allowed to have a British passport.RobD said:
Sorry.. blame the iPhone dictionary which I have set on American.SimonStClare said:
'color' Mr D ?RobD said:
You mean the current color, this is just the Sun's campaign, not an official announcement (we haven't left yet, for starters)Speedy said:
Burgundy looks better than blue I think.Pulpstar said:
Ah yes THIS is what people voted Brexit for !Scott_P said:
twitter.com/mrdavidwhitley/status/761572757373067264Pulpstar said:I reckon the simplest solution to this whole thing would be:
Brexiteers get to have the shiny black passports, real gold plating on the front, a slightly inconvienent oversize - but doubtless a feeling of "sovereignty". It says Great Britain, no mention of the EU anywhere.
Couldn't they keep the previous colour ?
I fear long term exposure to our cousins across the pond is having a detrimental effect.
Next you'll be calling your mobile a cellphone.
OMG, given your profession, you don't call it math (sic) do you?
I prefer saying math. Much easier than trying to pronounce 'th' & 's' together.
They call themselves The Competition and Markets Authority these days.0 -
I was offered a GCMG, but since they didn't give JohnO a peerage, I declined any honour in protest.Alanbrooke said:
Why arent you on Daves honour list ?
When George Osborne becomes PM in a few years time, I'm sure he'll give me the GCMG I've always craved.0 -
No doubt he did. And I agree, if things go well, plenty of people will remember voting the right way, although unless Europe simultaneously goes to the pot, I think the proportion will not be as many.GeoffM said:
And if things go well that ratio will be reversed. That's human nature.kle4 said:
If things go badly in the next couple of years, I think we can be sure than public recollection will be people voted 70-30 Remain.RobD said:
So does the premise of this threadSpeedy said:
It kinda destroys the idea of ballot secrecy.RobD said:
But no NHS, Education, Police etc. coverage unless you did vote for the winning team.kle4 said:
Yes, of course. And all taxes should only come from Tories, who voted for this government when no one else did. Works for me, I didn't vote for this government.Monty said:Excellent article. Why should my family suffer for Brexit? Anyone who voted leave? Fuck them.
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Didn't Sir Ian Botham once say something along the lines of - more people claim that they saw him at Headlingley in 1981 than the actual capacity of the ground?
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I can't tell if that's a spoofJohn_M said:
That's no reason not to go back in. The gross payment is only £18 billion a year. That's 2.2% of government spending.TheScreamingEagles said:
Alas no, we voted to Leave, we're Leaving. No Turning Back, and rejoining the EU in the future is a no no, as we'd have to sign up for the single currency, Schengen, and no rebate.kle4 said:
Well, there's your pretext for a revote right there.TheScreamingEagles said:
I was speaking to a psephologist last week, he cheerily pointed out that in a decade's time, there will be more people alive that voted Remain than voted Leave.kle4 said:
If things go badly in the next couple of years, I think we can be sure than public recollection will be people voted 70-30 Remain.RobD said:
So does the premise of this threadSpeedy said:
It kinda destroys the idea of ballot secrecy.RobD said:
But no NHS, Education, Police etc. coverage unless you did vote for the winning team.kle4 said:
Yes, of course. And all taxes should only come from Tories, who voted for this government when no one else did. Works for me, I didn't vote for this government.Monty said:Excellent article. Why should my family suffer for Brexit? Anyone who voted leave? Fuck them.
. 0 -
Golly.
Time was, the trolling was in the comments.0 -
GCMG - Don’t you have to first kill a dragon or something to qualify…?TheScreamingEagles said:
I was offered a GCMG, but since they didn't give JohnO a peerage, I declined any honour in protest.Alanbrooke said:
Why arent you on Daves honour list ?TheScreamingEagles said:
It's not such much as the lack of rebate, it's signing up to the single currency, I cannot foresee any circumstances where it is in the UK's long term interests to join the Euro.John_M said:
That's no reason not to go back in. The gross payment is only £18 billion a year. That's 2.2% of government spending.TheScreamingEagles said:
Alas no, we voted to Leave, we're Leaving. No Turning Back, and rejoining the EU in the future is a no no, as we'd have to sign up for the single currency, Schengen, and no rebate.kle4 said:
Well, there's your pretext for a revote right there.TheScreamingEagles said:
I was speaking to a psephologist last week, he cheerily pointed out that in a decade's time, there will be more people alive that voted Remain than voted Leave.kle4 said:
If things go badly in the next couple of years, I think we can be sure than public recollection will be people voted 70-30 Remain.RobD said:
So does the premise of this threadSpeedy said:
It kinda destroys the idea of ballot secrecy.RobD said:
But no NHS, Education, Police etc. coverage unless you did vote for the winning team.kle4 said:
Yes, of course. And all taxes should only come from Tories, who voted for this government when no one else did. Works for me, I didn't vote for this government.Monty said:Excellent article. Why should my family suffer for Brexit? Anyone who voted leave? Fuck them.
.
When George Osborne becomes PM in a few years time, I'm sure he'll give me the GCMG I've always craved/0 -
From the FOAK, It is at present awarded to men and women who hold high office or who render extraordinary or important non-military service in a foreign country, and can also be conferred for important or loyal service in relation to foreign and Commonwealth affairs.SimonStClare said:
GCMC - Don’t you have to first kill a dragon or something to qualify…?TheScreamingEagles said:
I was offered a GCMG, but since they didn't give JohnO a peerage, I declined any honour in protest.Alanbrooke said:
Why arent you on Daves honour list ?TheScreamingEagles said:
It's not such much as the lack of rebate, it's signing up to the single currency, I cannot foresee any circumstances where it is in the UK's long term interests to join the Euro.John_M said:
That's no reason not to go back in. The gross payment is only £18 billion a year. That's 2.2% of government spending.TheScreamingEagles said:
Alas no, we voted to Leave, we're Leaving. No Turning Back, and rejoining the EU in the future is a no no, as we'd have to sign up for the single currency, Schengen, and no rebate.kle4 said:
Well, there's your pretext for a revote right there.TheScreamingEagles said:
I was speaking to a psephologist last week, he cheerily pointed out that in a decade's time, there will be more people alive that voted Remain than voted Leave.kle4 said:
If things go badly in the next couple of years, I think we can be sure than public recollection will be people voted 70-30 Remain.RobD said:
So does the premise of this threadSpeedy said:
It kinda destroys the idea of ballot secrecy.RobD said:
But no NHS, Education, Police etc. coverage unless you did vote for the winning team.kle4 said:
Yes, of course. And all taxes should only come from Tories, who voted for this government when no one else did. Works for me, I didn't vote for this government.Monty said:Excellent article. Why should my family suffer for Brexit? Anyone who voted leave? Fuck them.
.
When George Osborne becomes PM in a few years time, I'm sure he'll give me the GCMG I've always craved/0 -
I've always been very clear that I thought both campaigns were lamentably bad. There are odd folk on here - I'm one of themRobD said:
I can't tell if that's a spoofJohn_M said:
That's no reason not to go back in. The gross payment is only £18 billion a year. That's 2.2% of government spending.TheScreamingEagles said:
Alas no, we voted to Leave, we're Leaving. No Turning Back, and rejoining the EU in the future is a no no, as we'd have to sign up for the single currency, Schengen, and no rebate.kle4 said:
Well, there's your pretext for a revote right there.TheScreamingEagles said:
I was speaking to a psephologist last week, he cheerily pointed out that in a decade's time, there will be more people alive that voted Remain than voted Leave.kle4 said:
If things go badly in the next couple of years, I think we can be sure than public recollection will be people voted 70-30 Remain.RobD said:
So does the premise of this threadSpeedy said:
It kinda destroys the idea of ballot secrecy.RobD said:
But no NHS, Education, Police etc. coverage unless you did vote for the winning team.kle4 said:
Yes, of course. And all taxes should only come from Tories, who voted for this government when no one else did. Works for me, I didn't vote for this government.Monty said:Excellent article. Why should my family suffer for Brexit? Anyone who voted leave? Fuck them.
.
.
I was sad to have the EUref in 2016 because the economy has been weakening for a couple of years, so it wasn't really the right time. However, we weren't going to get another opportunity.
The cost of EU membership is literally chump change. It's 1% of GDP. However, people get hung up on symbols, so there you have it. The delta between our debt servicing costs at the start and end of this parliament is £21 billion p.a. Don't hear people squeaking about that.
There's an argument that we should have gone balls deep into Europe, shouldered France aside and created a real London-Berlin axis. That could have been fantastic.
The reasons for my Leave vote were idiosyncratic. Probably not alone in that.0 -
GCMG = George Cant Manage Goatshit ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I was offered a GCMG, but since they didn't give JohnO a peerage, I declined any honour in protest.Alanbrooke said:
Why arent you on Daves honour list ?
When George Osborne becomes PM in a few years time, I'm sure he'll give me the GCMG I've always craved.
An appropriate award from our failed CoE0 -
Tsk, have you never watched Yes Minister?Alanbrooke said:
GCMG = George Cant Manage Goatshit ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I was offered a GCMG, but since they didn't give JohnO a peerage, I declined any honour in protest.Alanbrooke said:
Why arent you on Daves honour list ?
When George Osborne becomes PM in a few years time, I'm sure he'll give me the GCMG I've always craved.
An appropriate award from our failed CoE
The Most Distinguished Order of Saint Michael and Saint George, which is shortened to GCMG, which stands for God Calls Me God.0 -
Off-topic, two short links from earlier.
I ramble about the Ancient Olympics:
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/ancient-olympics.html
For those into The Witcher 3 but with more money than me, some artwork's up here:
https://www.candb.com/en/artcollectivegallery/94/artwork-by-cd-projekt-red.html0 -
If it were up to me, I'd award you a Don't Call Me God...TheScreamingEagles said:
Tsk, have you never watched Yes Minister?Alanbrooke said:
GCMG = George Cant Manage Goatshit ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I was offered a GCMG, but since they didn't give JohnO a peerage, I declined any honour in protest.Alanbrooke said:
Why arent you on Daves honour list ?
When George Osborne becomes PM in a few years time, I'm sure he'll give me the GCMG I've always craved.
An appropriate award from our failed CoE
The Most Distinguished Order of Saint Michael and Saint George, which is shortened to GCMG, which stands for God Calls Me God.0 -
As a 29 year old living in Woking (with super fast(ish) broadband), I support what Mr Meeks proposes.0
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Handbags on standby...ThreeQuidder said:
If it were up to me, I'd award you a Don't Call Me God...TheScreamingEagles said:
Tsk, have you never watched Yes Minister?Alanbrooke said:
GCMG = George Cant Manage Goatshit ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I was offered a GCMG, but since they didn't give JohnO a peerage, I declined any honour in protest.Alanbrooke said:
Why arent you on Daves honour list ?
When George Osborne becomes PM in a few years time, I'm sure he'll give me the GCMG I've always craved.
An appropriate award from our failed CoE
The Most Distinguished Order of Saint Michael and Saint George, which is shortened to GCMG, which stands for God Calls Me God.0 -
well I hope youve given up on your Brexit sulking and have gone back to being your more scumbag self.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tsk, have you never watched Yes Minister?Alanbrooke said:
GCMG = George Cant Manage Goatshit ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I was offered a GCMG, but since they didn't give JohnO a peerage, I declined any honour in protest.Alanbrooke said:
Why arent you on Daves honour list ?
When George Osborne becomes PM in a few years time, I'm sure he'll give me the GCMG I've always craved.
An appropriate award from our failed CoE
The Most Distinguished Order of Saint Michael and Saint George, which is shortened to GCMG, which stands for God Calls Me God.
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I'm looking forward to Brexit, it is exciting, if we make a success of it, we'll be able to lord it over the French, what's not to love?Alanbrooke said:
well I hope youve given up on your Brexit sulking and have gone back to being your more scumbag self.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tsk, have you never watched Yes Minister?Alanbrooke said:
GCMG = George Cant Manage Goatshit ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I was offered a GCMG, but since they didn't give JohnO a peerage, I declined any honour in protest.Alanbrooke said:
Why arent you on Daves honour list ?
When George Osborne becomes PM in a few years time, I'm sure he'll give me the GCMG I've always craved.
An appropriate award from our failed CoE
The Most Distinguished Order of Saint Michael and Saint George, which is shortened to GCMG, which stands for God Calls Me God.0 -
How about a stottie tax? Really stick it to those North Easterners who sunk the British relationship with Europe.foxinsoxuk said:
Top trolling Alastair.rottenborough said:Not entirely sure why rural broadband is on the hit list here. Only a few millions. Surely there will need to be far more substantial cuts?
Can I suggest a white van supertax to add to your suggestions?0 -
I doubt we get to Lord it over the french but the Germans undoubtedly will now that there's no-one else to gang up against them . ( the other 26 counties are basically scared ),TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm looking forward to Brexit, it is exciting, if we make a success of it, we'll be able to lord it over the French, what's not to love?Alanbrooke said:
well I hope youve given up on your Brexit sulking and have gone back to being your more scumbag self.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tsk, have you never watched Yes Minister?Alanbrooke said:
GCMG = George Cant Manage Goatshit ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I was offered a GCMG, but since they didn't give JohnO a peerage, I declined any honour in protest.Alanbrooke said:
Why arent you on Daves honour list ?
When George Osborne becomes PM in a few years time, I'm sure he'll give me the GCMG I've always craved.
An appropriate award from our failed CoE
The Most Distinguished Order of Saint Michael and Saint George, which is shortened to GCMG, which stands for God Calls Me God.
So its buy popcorn and see how long France will hold out being Germany's plaything. How low does the humiliation barrier actually have to go ?
With of course the occasional french tantrum directed aginst us for leaving them in a predicament of their own choosing.0 -
Spoke to my friend who runs a sheet metal business and he says that business is booming.0
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I am a Remainer and I certainly want to touch a freedom of movement and single market deal with more than a bargepole. All the polling shows a majority of voters want to stay in the Single Market and while they want control of freedom of movement they do not want to end it completely. It would be a disaster to allow the 25 to 30% of the country i.e. the most hardcore Leavers, to dictate to the rest of the country at huge economic cost to the rest of us and they must be fought every step of the way on this. If many of them go to UKIP in a huff then so be it. The fact that May rather than Leadsom became PM suggests a deal will be done0
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Said before but it bears repeating. The UK's economy is huge. Any Brexit effects are going to be statistical. Even in the depths of the last recession ~250k businesses were created. About 75% of the UK's companies don't do any international trade of any kind. Some firms will absolutely boom, others will fold.tlg86 said:Spoke to my friend who runs a sheet metal business and he says that business is booming.
There will always be the eye-catching headlines for good and ill, but the success of Brexit will depend on shifts in frequency distributions that will be hard to discern for several years.0 -
"Brexit may be costly but is a price worth paying"
"So are you willing to pay the price?"
"REMAINER TRAITOR!!! I meant other people should pay, I should get a medal!"0 -
The biggest risk is surely the housing market. Yes, a fall in house prices would be welcomed by many, but our banks would be in big trouble.John_M said:
Said before but it bears repeating. The UK's economy is huge. Any Brexit effects are going to be statistical. Even in the depths of the last recession ~250k businesses were created. About 75% of the UK's companies don't do any international trade of any kind. Some firms will absolutely boom, others will fold.tlg86 said:Spoke to my friend who runs a sheet metal business and he says that business is booming.
There will always be the eye-catching headlines for good and ill, but the success of Brexit will depend on shifts in frequency distributions that will be hard to discern for several years.0 -
No it's not, that's anarchy. Democracy is that everyone has a say but then the winner applies to all (including those that didn't vote for it).kle4 said:
No, it;s perfect. You don't vote for something, it's not fair it applies to you, that's democracy.Philip_Thompson said:
And all spending should go to Tories. Anyone else, fuck them, they don't want the government so why should the government spend a penny on them.kle4 said:
Yes, of course. And all taxes should only come from Tories, who voted for this government when no one else did. Works for me, I didn't vote for this government.Monty said:Excellent article. Why should my family suffer for Brexit? Anyone who voted leave? Fuck them.
.
Or not ...0 -
I'll refer you to the latest financial stability report. Have a butchers at page 5 which details the 2014 stress tests. Our banks are even better capitalised now. There's nothing to worry about, unless you think the BoE is lying.tlg86 said:
The biggest risk is surely the housing market. Yes, a fall in house prices would be welcomed by many, but our banks would be in big trouble.John_M said:
Said before but it bears repeating. The UK's economy is huge. Any Brexit effects are going to be statistical. Even in the depths of the last recession ~250k businesses were created. About 75% of the UK's companies don't do any international trade of any kind. Some firms will absolutely boom, others will fold.tlg86 said:Spoke to my friend who runs a sheet metal business and he says that business is booming.
There will always be the eye-catching headlines for good and ill, but the success of Brexit will depend on shifts in frequency distributions that will be hard to discern for several years.
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/fsr/2016/fsrjul16sum.pdf0 -
I can see not including a winking emoji really did not make the ironic intent clear.Philip_Thompson said:
No it's not, that's anarchy. Democracy is that everyone has a say but then the winner applies to all (including those that didn't vote for it).kle4 said:
No, it;s perfect. You don't vote for something, it's not fair it applies to you, that's democracy.Philip_Thompson said:
And all spending should go to Tories. Anyone else, fuck them, they don't want the government so why should the government spend a penny on them.kle4 said:
Yes, of course. And all taxes should only come from Tories, who voted for this government when no one else did. Works for me, I didn't vote for this government.Monty said:Excellent article. Why should my family suffer for Brexit? Anyone who voted leave? Fuck them.
.
Or not ...0 -
Clever right-wing people voted LEAVE in the hope of subsequently betraying the White English/Welsh working class by wangling EEA, to make sure the UK would still be able to sell services into the EU but not have to comply with its rights, labour or environmental laws, and would still import loads of immigrants after months of whipping up fear and enmity about them, and holding out the promise of "control" of the swamp of foreigners.
If they want EEA, let them be the ones to die in a ditch versus the Tory press for it, rather than letting the poor REMAINers die a second time.0 -
Tacit support from remainers will be needed to secure such a deal, but it is indeed on the leavers who want it to really push for it. I don't think May wants that enough to take on that fight, frankly.EPG said:Clever right-wing people voted LEAVE in the hope of subsequently betraying the White English/Welsh working class by wangling EEA, to make sure the UK would still be able to sell services into the EU but not have to comply with its rights, labour or environmental laws, and would still import loads of immigrants after months of whipping up fear and enmity about them, and holding out the promise of "control" of the swamp of foreigners.
If they want EEA, let them be the ones to die in a ditch versus the Tory press for it, rather than letting the poor REMAINers die a second time.0 -
Good to see Alistair back on top form.0
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Theoretically it could be possible to do this, just impose a new super tax on bingo halls, working mens' clubs and greyhound racing tracks, double VAT at Lidl and Asda stores and for SAGA holiday bookings and any trips to Blackpool and Benidorm, link pension rises to increases in Labour's poll rating, double petrol duty in non urban areas and impose a special annual levy on all Sunderland and West Ham fans
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You are labouring under a number of misapprehensions. EEA includes compliance with the environmental acquis (bar those that pertain to CAP/CFP).EPG said:Clever right-wing people voted LEAVE in the hope of subsequently betraying the White English/Welsh working class by wangling EEA, to make sure the UK would still be able to sell services into the EU but not have to comply with its rights, labour or environmental laws, and would still import loads of immigrants after months of whipping up fear and enmity about them, and holding out the promise of "control" of the swamp of foreigners.
If they want EEA, let them be the ones to die in a ditch versus the Tory press for it, rather than letting the poor REMAINers die a second time.
http://www.efta.int/eea/eea-agreement/eea-basic-features
PM May has already stated that she doesn't believe that any off-the-peg arrangement is suitable for the UK, so I would imagine both your fears and self-pity are unfounded.0 -
Interesting. It makes the rate cut and QE all the more perplexing.John_M said:
I'll refer you to the latest financial stability report. Have a butchers at page 5 which details the 2014 stress tests. Our banks are even better capitalised now. There's nothing to worry about, unless you think the BoE is lying.tlg86 said:
The biggest risk is surely the housing market. Yes, a fall in house prices would be welcomed by many, but our banks would be in big trouble.John_M said:
Said before but it bears repeating. The UK's economy is huge. Any Brexit effects are going to be statistical. Even in the depths of the last recession ~250k businesses were created. About 75% of the UK's companies don't do any international trade of any kind. Some firms will absolutely boom, others will fold.tlg86 said:Spoke to my friend who runs a sheet metal business and he says that business is booming.
There will always be the eye-catching headlines for good and ill, but the success of Brexit will depend on shifts in frequency distributions that will be hard to discern for several years.
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/fsr/2016/fsrjul16sum.pdf0 -
If long-term economic benefits to leaving materialise, as I think and hope they will, can we Leavers get all the benefit? Income taxes on the poorest but not the middle classes can be cut along with VAT; invest in the Northern Powerhouse and coastal defences in Essex but sod more money for the Tube, those Remain traitors in London can be crammed in like sardines for all we care; spend more on the NHS (disproportionately used by the working-class elderly) but keep tuition fees creeping up, no respite for those Remainiac students.
Presumably we'd keep punishing/rewarding the relevant demographics long after people who actually voted on 23/06/16 have aged or moved up in social class, etc. Or of course we could move forwards as a country that works for the 52% and the 48%.0 -
No self-pity. Monstering the foreigners worked, fine. So do a deal to let them in, but don't expect REMAINers to die on a cross for hedge fund types.John_M said:
You are labouring under a number of misapprehensions. EEA includes compliance with the environmental acquis (bar those that pertain to CAP/CFP).EPG said:Clever right-wing people voted LEAVE in the hope of subsequently betraying the White English/Welsh working class by wangling EEA, to make sure the UK would still be able to sell services into the EU but not have to comply with its rights, labour or environmental laws, and would still import loads of immigrants after months of whipping up fear and enmity about them, and holding out the promise of "control" of the swamp of foreigners.
If they want EEA, let them be the ones to die in a ditch versus the Tory press for it, rather than letting the poor REMAINers die a second time.
http://www.efta.int/eea/eea-agreement/eea-basic-features
PM May has already stated that she doesn't believe that any off-the-peg arrangement is suitable for the UK, so I would imagine both your fears and self-pity are unfounded.0 -
It's sentiment and confidence that count at the moment. As we see from the header's extended fit of petulance, a good chunk of the populace are feeling extremely upset, as are large swathes of the business community.tlg86 said:
Interesting. It makes the rate cut and QE all the more perplexing.John_M said:
I'll refer you to the latest financial stability report. Have a butchers at page 5 which details the 2014 stress tests. Our banks are even better capitalised now. There's nothing to worry about, unless you think the BoE is lying.tlg86 said:
The biggest risk is surely the housing market. Yes, a fall in house prices would be welcomed by many, but our banks would be in big trouble.John_M said:
Said before but it bears repeating. The UK's economy is huge. Any Brexit effects are going to be statistical. Even in the depths of the last recession ~250k businesses were created. About 75% of the UK's companies don't do any international trade of any kind. Some firms will absolutely boom, others will fold.tlg86 said:Spoke to my friend who runs a sheet metal business and he says that business is booming.
There will always be the eye-catching headlines for good and ill, but the success of Brexit will depend on shifts in frequency distributions that will be hard to discern for several years.
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/fsr/2016/fsrjul16sum.pdf
While I'm dubious that a country as large as the UK can talk itself into a recession, we're bound to see a drop in demand even though nothing has actually happened per se. The BoE has done what it feels necessary to counter that.0 -
May has said she wants 'free movement controls' which could even just include a temporary break, unlike Leadsom she never said she wanted to end free movement or leave the single marketJohn_M said:
You are labouring under a number of misapprehensions. EEA includes compliance with the environmental acquis (bar those that pertain to CAP/CFP).EPG said:Clever right-wing people voted LEAVE in the hope of subsequently betraying the White English/Welsh working class by wangling EEA, to make sure the UK would still be able to sell services into the EU but not have to comply with its rights, labour or environmental laws, and would still import loads of immigrants after months of whipping up fear and enmity about them, and holding out the promise of "control" of the swamp of foreigners.
If they want EEA, let them be the ones to die in a ditch versus the Tory press for it, rather than letting the poor REMAINers die a second time.
http://www.efta.int/eea/eea-agreement/eea-basic-features
PM May has already stated that she doesn't believe that any off-the-peg arrangement is suitable for the UK, so I would imagine both your fears and self-pity are unfounded.0 -
May will certainly not want to take on half the banks and law firms in the City threatening to move their HQs to Paris or Frankfurt if we leave the single market, companies threatening to move factories to the continent not to mention the majority of voters who do not want to leave the single market eitherEPG said:Clever right-wing people voted LEAVE in the hope of subsequently betraying the White English/Welsh working class by wangling EEA, to make sure the UK would still be able to sell services into the EU but not have to comply with its rights, labour or environmental laws, and would still import loads of immigrants after months of whipping up fear and enmity about them, and holding out the promise of "control" of the swamp of foreigners.
If they want EEA, let them be the ones to die in a ditch versus the Tory press for it, rather than letting the poor REMAINers die a second time.0 -
Leadsom wanted to guide us to the sunlit uplands. Maybe Remainers were too harsh when they said the other side didn't have a plan.HYUFD said:
May has said she wants 'free movement controls' which could even just include a temporary break, unlike Leadsom she never said she wanted to end free movement or leave the single marketJohn_M said:
You are labouring under a number of misapprehensions. EEA includes compliance with the environmental acquis (bar those that pertain to CAP/CFP).EPG said:Clever right-wing people voted LEAVE in the hope of subsequently betraying the White English/Welsh working class by wangling EEA, to make sure the UK would still be able to sell services into the EU but not have to comply with its rights, labour or environmental laws, and would still import loads of immigrants after months of whipping up fear and enmity about them, and holding out the promise of "control" of the swamp of foreigners.
If they want EEA, let them be the ones to die in a ditch versus the Tory press for it, rather than letting the poor REMAINers die a second time.
http://www.efta.int/eea/eea-agreement/eea-basic-features
PM May has already stated that she doesn't believe that any off-the-peg arrangement is suitable for the UK, so I would imagine both your fears and self-pity are unfounded.0 -
The general thrust (that Brexiters should bear the brunt of Brexit) is somewhat undemocratic and silly. And if Brexit is a roaring success does it mean that Remainers are left out of the bonanza?? I would agree that there can be no guarantees that EU-funded programmes will continue - each should be decided on its merits, as befits any payments from the public purse - but there should be no pettiness.0
-
Honestly @EPG I don't understand your point. We're all collectively out of the loop now. It's down to Her Majesty's Government. We were asked a question, provided an answer and Mrs May will proceed accordingly.EPG said:
No self-pity. Monstering the foreigners worked, fine. So do a deal to let them in, but don't expect REMAINers to die on a cross for hedge fund types.John_M said:
You are labouring under a number of misapprehensions. EEA includes compliance with the environmental acquis (bar those that pertain to CAP/CFP).EPG said:Clever right-wing people voted LEAVE in the hope of subsequently betraying the White English/Welsh working class by wangling EEA, to make sure the UK would still be able to sell services into the EU but not have to comply with its rights, labour or environmental laws, and would still import loads of immigrants after months of whipping up fear and enmity about them, and holding out the promise of "control" of the swamp of foreigners.
If they want EEA, let them be the ones to die in a ditch versus the Tory press for it, rather than letting the poor REMAINers die a second time.
http://www.efta.int/eea/eea-agreement/eea-basic-features
PM May has already stated that she doesn't believe that any off-the-peg arrangement is suitable for the UK, so I would imagine both your fears and self-pity are unfounded.
All that remains to be seen is what proportion of the population is going to be unhappy with the result. I don't see that anyone is being asked to do anything for anyone else.0 -
Leadsom did have a plan, speak first, think laterFF43 said:
Leadsom wanted to guide us to the sunlit uplands. Maybe Remainers were too harsh when they said the other side didn't have a plan.HYUFD said:
May has said she wants 'free movement controls' which could even just include a temporary break, unlike Leadsom she never said she wanted to end free movement or leave the single marketJohn_M said:
You are labouring under a number of misapprehensions. EEA includes compliance with the environmental acquis (bar those that pertain to CAP/CFP).EPG said:Clever right-wing people voted LEAVE in the hope of subsequently betraying the White English/Welsh working class by wangling EEA, to make sure the UK would still be able to sell services into the EU but not have to comply with its rights, labour or environmental laws, and would still import loads of immigrants after months of whipping up fear and enmity about them, and holding out the promise of "control" of the swamp of foreigners.
If they want EEA, let them be the ones to die in a ditch versus the Tory press for it, rather than letting the poor REMAINers die a second time.
http://www.efta.int/eea/eea-agreement/eea-basic-features
PM May has already stated that she doesn't believe that any off-the-peg arrangement is suitable for the UK, so I would imagine both your fears and self-pity are unfounded.0 -
+1 tickPhilip_Thompson said:
No it's not, that's anarchy. Democracy is that everyone has a say but then the winner applies to all (including those that didn't vote for it).kle4 said:
No, it;s perfect. You don't vote for something, it's not fair it applies to you, that's democracy.Philip_Thompson said:
And all spending should go to Tories. Anyone else, fuck them, they don't want the government so why should the government spend a penny on them.kle4 said:
Yes, of course. And all taxes should only come from Tories, who voted for this government when no one else did. Works for me, I didn't vote for this government.Monty said:Excellent article. Why should my family suffer for Brexit? Anyone who voted leave? Fuck them.
.
Or not ...0 -
Yes that's true, it applies to all at the time.Philip_Thompson said:
No it's not, that's anarchy. Democracy is that everyone has a say but then the winner applies to all (including those that didn't vote for it).kle4 said:
No, it;s perfect. You don't vote for something, it's not fair it applies to you, that's democracy.Philip_Thompson said:
And all spending should go to Tories. Anyone else, fuck them, they don't want the government so why should the government spend a penny on them.kle4 said:
Yes, of course. And all taxes should only come from Tories, who voted for this government when no one else did. Works for me, I didn't vote for this government.Monty said:Excellent article. Why should my family suffer for Brexit? Anyone who voted leave? Fuck them.
.
Or not ...
If it later transpires that a further contrary decision is made then the previous one ceases to apply (e.g. 1975 and 2016).
The problem for Leavers is that the 52% is made up of a coalition that wanted a whole range of different things. Once we have real solid decisions from the government, it will be interesting to see the reactions.0 -
At least some of the SA media are making a big deal of their local election results...
http://www.rdm.co.za/politics/2016/08/04/election-results-live-the-day-that-changed-the-country0 -
Yes, but the problem for the Rejoiners is that maybe 10% of the country believe in the Project.logical_song said:
Yes that's true, it applies to all at the time.Philip_Thompson said:
No it's not, that's anarchy. Democracy is that everyone has a say but then the winner applies to all (including those that didn't vote for it).kle4 said:
No, it;s perfect. You don't vote for something, it's not fair it applies to you, that's democracy.Philip_Thompson said:
And all spending should go to Tories. Anyone else, fuck them, they don't want the government so why should the government spend a penny on them.kle4 said:
Yes, of course. And all taxes should only come from Tories, who voted for this government when no one else did. Works for me, I didn't vote for this government.Monty said:Excellent article. Why should my family suffer for Brexit? Anyone who voted leave? Fuck them.
.
Or not ...
If it later transpires that a further contrary decision is made then the previous one ceases to apply (e.g. 1975 and 2016).
The problem for Leavers is that the 52% is made up of a coalition that wanted a whole range of different things. Once we have real solid decisions from the government, it will be interesting to see the reactions.0 -
Before brexit vote I always put Alastair down as somebody was very calm & collected. This is ranting more akin to Nigel farage.
It wasn't a battle of good vs evil, in the same way as Tory vs labour GE wasn't. It was two different visions both with merits, both with negatives.
Voting to stay wouldn't have led to UK destruction nor with brexit. It is more a question of which is overall beneficial in the long term.0 -
That applies to Remain voters as well. I do urge people to look at the TUC polling. It does shed some light on similarities and differences between the various components of both sides.logical_song said:
Yes that's true, it applies to all at the time.Philip_Thompson said:
No it's not, that's anarchy. Democracy is that everyone has a say but then the winner applies to all (including those that didn't vote for it).kle4 said:
No, it;s perfect. You don't vote for something, it's not fair it applies to you, that's democracy.Philip_Thompson said:
And all spending should go to Tories. Anyone else, fuck them, they don't want the government so why should the government spend a penny on them.kle4 said:
Yes, of course. And all taxes should only come from Tories, who voted for this government when no one else did. Works for me, I didn't vote for this government.Monty said:Excellent article. Why should my family suffer for Brexit? Anyone who voted leave? Fuck them.
.
Or not ...
If it later transpires that a further contrary decision is made then the previous one ceases to apply (e.g. 1975 and 2016).
The problem for Leavers is that the 52% is made up of a coalition that wanted a whole range of different things. Once we have real solid decisions from the government, it will be interesting to see the reactions.
http://www.gqrr.com/articles/2016/8/4/the-21-things-you-need-to-know-to-understand-why-britain-voted-leave0 -
I'm sure you object to Labour voter and Conservative voter as well.Carolus_Rex said:What I find utterly depressing about this article and to be blunt about much of what I've read on this site in recent weeks is the repeated use of "Remainer" and "Leaver" as though referring to two distinct tribes. For God's sake, I voted in a referendum a few weeks ago and suddenly which box I put a cross in has become an essential part of my being? I think a sense of proportion is called for.
0 -
Also an interesting BMG poll carried out between July 22nd - 26th. Not all pollsters show a big Tory lead!PlatoSaid said:General Election
A few anomalies when YOUGOV try to predict what the don't knows will do
https://t.co/NeUG9DHcfY
Your thoughts are welcome
Con 34%
Lab 32%
Lib Dem 8%
UKIP 13%
Green 8%
SNP 4%
PC 1%
Other 1%0 -
Here is a tiny tiny tiny straw for you ....justin124 said:
Also an interesting BMG poll carried out between July 22nd - 26th. Not all pollsters show a big Tory lead!PlatoSaid said:General Election
A few anomalies when YOUGOV try to predict what the don't knows will do
https://t.co/NeUG9DHcfY
Your thoughts are welcome
Con 34%
Lab 32%
Lib Dem 8%
UKIP 13%
Green 8%
SNP 4%
PC 1%
Other 1%0 -
10 days agojustin124 said:
Also an interesting BMG poll carried out between July 22nd - 26th. Not all pollsters show a big Tory lead!PlatoSaid said:General Election
A few anomalies when YOUGOV try to predict what the don't knows will do
https://t.co/NeUG9DHcfY
Your thoughts are welcome
Con 34%
Lab 32%
Lib Dem 8%
UKIP 13%
Green 8%
SNP 4%
PC 1%
Other 1%0 -
You're illustrating why government by referendum doesn't work. The last resort on a tricky thing is a referendum, and it's lunacy to then try to finesse the result.logical_song said:
Yes that's true, it applies to all at the time.Philip_Thompson said:
No it's not, that's anarchy. Democracy is that everyone has a say but then the winner applies to all (including those that didn't vote for it).kle4 said:
No, it;s perfect. You don't vote for something, it's not fair it applies to you, that's democracy.Philip_Thompson said:
And all spending should go to Tories. Anyone else, fuck them, they don't want the government so why should the government spend a penny on them.kle4 said:
Yes, of course. And all taxes should only come from Tories, who voted for this government when no one else did. Works for me, I didn't vote for this government.Monty said:Excellent article. Why should my family suffer for Brexit? Anyone who voted leave? Fuck them.
.
Or not ...
If it later transpires that a further contrary decision is made then the previous one ceases to apply (e.g. 1975 and 2016).
The problem for Leavers is that the 52% is made up of a coalition that wanted a whole range of different things. Once we have real solid decisions from the government, it will be interesting to see the reactions.
Should you be daft enough to ask the same question twice then I guess the more recent answer prevails, but what if the turnout were much lower?
Given that the question was asked there simply has to be an implementation of the answer. It can be a weak and nonsense implementation if you wish, but it'd be a foolish politician that championed such things. To seek to disobey (not the word I wanted, but it'll do) the result is simply treacherous.0 -
The day the DA got a black leader, as they do now, was the day the sun began to set on the ANC's stranglehold over powerThreeQuidder said:At least some of the SA media are making a big deal of their local election results...
http://www.rdm.co.za/politics/2016/08/04/election-results-live-the-day-that-changed-the-country0 -
This article is rubbish (and I voted Remain..)
Using the same logic, tax and spend from Labour should mean benefits are cut and taxes raised on those who voted Labour.
Mind you, perhaps this article is not such rubbish :-)
0 -
Yes - but at the same time that YouGov came up with a 12% lead!HYUFD said:
10 days agojustin124 said:
Also an interesting BMG poll carried out between July 22nd - 26th. Not all pollsters show a big Tory lead!PlatoSaid said:General Election
A few anomalies when YOUGOV try to predict what the don't knows will do
https://t.co/NeUG9DHcfY
Your thoughts are welcome
Con 34%
Lab 32%
Lib Dem 8%
UKIP 13%
Green 8%
SNP 4%
PC 1%
Other 1%0 -
@HYUFD
'May will certainly not want to take on half the banks and law firms in the City threatening to move their HQs to Paris or Frankfurt if we leave the single market, companies threatening to move factories to the continent not to mention the majority of voters who do not want to leave the single market either'
We had exactly the same threats if we didn't join the Euro, can you remind us how many moved ?
0 -
There's an issue of timing here. The EEA, as is, and remaining in the EU for the time being are immediately available options. Everything else, including regularising our WTO membership, will take years and will require EU agreement. A new treaty, which most likely will be needed at some point takes upwards of two years to ratify.John_M said:
You are labouring under a number of misapprehensions. EEA includes compliance with the environmental acquis (bar those that pertain to CAP/CFP).EPG said:Clever right-wing people voted LEAVE in the hope of subsequently betraying the White English/Welsh working class by wangling EEA, to make sure the UK would still be able to sell services into the EU but not have to comply with its rights, labour or environmental laws, and would still import loads of immigrants after months of whipping up fear and enmity about them, and holding out the promise of "control" of the swamp of foreigners.
If they want EEA, let them be the ones to die in a ditch versus the Tory press for it, rather than letting the poor REMAINers die a second time.
http://www.efta.int/eea/eea-agreement/eea-basic-features
PM May has already stated that she doesn't believe that any off-the-peg arrangement is suitable for the UK, so I would imagine both your fears and self-pity are unfounded.
I agree with Casino Royale that Brexit will likely be a journey rather than a transformation. But it won't, I think, be incremental planned steps, instead a drawn out sequence of options being closed off as the contradictions and false assumptions of each become apparent.
0 -
@John_M
'tlg86
'Spoke to my friend who runs a sheet metal business and he says that business is booming.'
Said before but it bears repeating. The UK's economy is huge. Any Brexit effects are going to be statistical. Even in the depths of the last recession ~250k businesses were created. About 75% of the UK's companies don't do any international trade of any kind. Some firms will absolutely boom, others will fold.'
Problem is that the likes of Meeks will claim anything bad is due to Brexit & anything good is because Brexit hasn't fully taken place.0 -
I didn't vote for T Blair or G Brown.
I am professionally labouring under the direct consequences of their brainless numpty actions ( I am entirely serious ).
Clearly none of this should apply to me, and the costs should be wholly borne by those who did vote for the pair of them,
According to the article's logic anyway. So that's ok then. Except, back in the real world, sadly for me it's not.0 -
On UK Polling Report Roger Mexico has made the following comment to Anthony Wells of YouGov re its most recent poll showing a 14% Tory lead. Anthony has yet to respond.
'Anthony
I’m actually a little puzzled about the way the final figures are worked out on this poll. If you look at the basic figures for VI before any LTV processing and whatever they are:
Con 26% (-1)
Lab 21% (+1)
Lib Dem 7% (+2)
UKIP 11% (+2)
SNP/PC 4% (nc)
Other[1] 4% (nc)
Would not vote 11% (nc)
Don’t know 16% (-3)
I know you can’t estimate final percentages exactly from this, but I would expect the direction of movement to be the same in the headline figures. So for the Con-Lab lead to increase and the UKIP percentage to go down in those seems strange. Especially as the LTV figures for Lab and UKIP voters seem higher than the Con ones in this poll.'
0 -
A bit different since there are endless elections fought between those parties.Alistair said:
I'm sure you object to Labour voter and Conservative voter as well.Carolus_Rex said:What I find utterly depressing about this article and to be blunt about much of what I've read on this site in recent weeks is the repeated use of "Remainer" and "Leaver" as though referring to two distinct tribes. For God's sake, I voted in a referendum a few weeks ago and suddenly which box I put a cross in has become an essential part of my being? I think a sense of proportion is called for.
0 -
In 1997 there were even a few polls showing John Major only a few points behind Blair! The latest yougov was taken 1st-2nd Augustjustin124 said:
Yes - but at the same time that YouGov came up with a 12% lead!HYUFD said:
10 days agojustin124 said:
Also an interesting BMG poll carried out between July 22nd - 26th. Not all pollsters show a big Tory lead!PlatoSaid said:General Election
A few anomalies when YOUGOV try to predict what the don't knows will do
https://t.co/NeUG9DHcfY
Your thoughts are welcome
Con 34%
Lab 32%
Lib Dem 8%
UKIP 13%
Green 8%
SNP 4%
PC 1%
Other 1%
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/dwpdjgfxsp/TimesResults_160802_Trackers&VI_W.pdf0 -
Expecting the direction to be the same is only true if the likelihood to vote hadn't changed, surely?justin124 said:On UK Polling Report Roger Mexico has made the following comment to Anthony Wells of YouGov re its most recent poll showing a 14% Tory lead. Anthony has yet to respond.
'Anthony
I’m actually a little puzzled about the way the final figures are worked out on this poll. If you look at the basic figures for VI before any LTV processing and whatever they are:
Con 26% (-1)
Lab 21% (+1)
Lib Dem 7% (+2)
UKIP 11% (+2)
SNP/PC 4% (nc)
Other[1] 4% (nc)
Would not vote 11% (nc)
Don’t know 16% (-3)
I know you can’t estimate final percentages exactly from this, but I would expect the direction of movement to be the same in the headline figures. So for the Con-Lab lead to increase and the UKIP percentage to go down in those seems strange. Especially as the LTV figures for Lab and UKIP voters seem higher than the Con ones in this poll.'0 -
Even I opposed joining the Euro, being outside the single market of our biggest trade partners is a completely different argumentjohn_zims said:@HYUFD
'May will certainly not want to take on half the banks and law firms in the City threatening to move their HQs to Paris or Frankfurt if we leave the single market, companies threatening to move factories to the continent not to mention the majority of voters who do not want to leave the single market either'
We had exactly the same threats if we didn't join the Euro, can you remind us how many moved ?0 -
I'm going to plead Rumsfeld at this point. The things that I don't know about the process far outweigh the things I do know. I'm satisfied with my knowledge of EFTA, EEA and WTO. I understand the broad financial implications of each of our primary options.FF43 said:
There's an issue of timing here. The EEA, as is, and remaining in the EU for the time being are immediately available options. Everything else, including regularising our WTO membership, will take years and will require EU agreement. A new treaty, which most likely will be needed at some point takes upwards of two years to ratify.John_M said:
You are labouring under a number of misapprehensions. EEA includes compliance with the environmental acquis (bar those that pertain to CAP/CFP).EPG said:Clever right-wing people voted LEAVE in the hope of subsequently betraying the White English/Welsh working class by wangling EEA, to make sure the UK would still be able to sell services into the EU but not have to comply with its rights, labour or environmental laws, and would still import loads of immigrants after months of whipping up fear and enmity about them, and holding out the promise of "control" of the swamp of foreigners.
If they want EEA, let them be the ones to die in a ditch versus the Tory press for it, rather than letting the poor REMAINers die a second time.
http://www.efta.int/eea/eea-agreement/eea-basic-features
PM May has already stated that she doesn't believe that any off-the-peg arrangement is suitable for the UK, so I would imagine both your fears and self-pity are unfounded.
I agree with Casino Royale that Brexit will likely be a journey rather than a transformation. But it won't, I think, be incremental planned steps, instead a drawn out sequence of options being closed off as the contradictions and false assumptions of each become apparent.
However, it's all gone very quiet on the political front. I have no idea if much is going on, or nothing. I'm happy to carry on speculating, but there's little we can do except rehash what are, by now, extremely tired arguments.
Where we agree is that it's a journey rather than an event.0 -
Nothing we can do about your last paragraph. I console myself that there are almost equal numbers of Brexiteers who are completely deluded about the consequences and are oblivious to the complexities of the process we're embarked on. Both sides have their crosses to bear.john_zims said:@John_M
'tlg86
'Spoke to my friend who runs a sheet metal business and he says that business is booming.'
Said before but it bears repeating. The UK's economy is huge. Any Brexit effects are going to be statistical. Even in the depths of the last recession ~250k businesses were created. About 75% of the UK's companies don't do any international trade of any kind. Some firms will absolutely boom, others will fold.'
Problem is that the likes of Meeks will claim anything bad is due to Brexit & anything good is because Brexit hasn't fully taken place.0 -
I like going to Waitrose. Always bump into people I know, it's a social occasion, albeit a minor one. Sure Amazon will do marvels in the cities though.SeanT said:I hope the health of Alastair's partner continues to improve.
Has anyone else tried Amazon Fresh? It's incredible - they deliver food and booze, groceries and staples - to your door, within a specific HOUR, on the same day as you order.
Their wine selection alone is better than any online supermarket. Prices are super-competitive.
They're gonna slaughter the competition, starting with Ocado.0 -
I have not looked at the data in the same detail that Roger Mexico has done, but he is implying that likelihood to vote of Labour and UKIP voters had increased relative to Tory voters.For that reason, he clearly finds the headline figures to be bizarre - and inconsistent.RobD said:
Expecting the direction to be the same is only true if the likelihood to vote hadn't changed, surely?justin124 said:On UK Polling Report Roger Mexico has made the following comment to Anthony Wells of YouGov re its most recent poll showing a 14% Tory lead. Anthony has yet to respond.
'Anthony
I’m actually a little puzzled about the way the final figures are worked out on this poll. If you look at the basic figures for VI before any LTV processing and whatever they are:
Con 26% (-1)
Lab 21% (+1)
Lib Dem 7% (+2)
UKIP 11% (+2)
SNP/PC 4% (nc)
Other[1] 4% (nc)
Would not vote 11% (nc)
Don’t know 16% (-3)
I know you can’t estimate final percentages exactly from this, but I would expect the direction of movement to be the same in the headline figures. So for the Con-Lab lead to increase and the UKIP percentage to go down in those seems strange. Especially as the LTV figures for Lab and UKIP voters seem higher than the Con ones in this poll.'0 -
Yes. They are awesome.SeanT said:I hope the health of Alastair's partner continues to improve.
Has anyone else tried Amazon Fresh? It's incredible - they deliver food and booze, groceries and staples - to your door, within a specific HOUR, on the same day as you order.
Their wine selection alone is better than any online supermarket. Prices are super-competitive.
They're gonna slaughter the competition, starting with Ocado.0 -
Exactly, though there is some nuance. A floating voter who backed the party du jour at the last election can't be talked about as a Conservative voter or Labour voter in the same way as someone who always votes for the same party, puts up a poster at election time etc. There are parallels with people who made up their mind in the last week of the EURef campaign and half-heartedly voted one way or the other as opposed to people who'd made up their minds years ago and went out campaigning.RobD said:
A bit different since there are endless elections fought between those parties.Alistair said:
I'm sure you object to Labour voter and Conservative voter as well.Carolus_Rex said:What I find utterly depressing about this article and to be blunt about much of what I've read on this site in recent weeks is the repeated use of "Remainer" and "Leaver" as though referring to two distinct tribes. For God's sake, I voted in a referendum a few weeks ago and suddenly which box I put a cross in has become an essential part of my being? I think a sense of proportion is called for.
0 -
While YouGov may have made a mistake, I very much doubt that is what has happened. Probably just a part of their black box weighting magic.justin124 said:
I have not looked at the data in the same detail that Roger Mexico has done, but he is implying that likelihood to vote of Labour and UKIP voters had increased relative to Tory voters.For that reason, he clearly finds the headline figures to be bizarre - and inconsistent.RobD said:
Expecting the direction to be the same is only true if the likelihood to vote hadn't changed, surely?justin124 said:On UK Polling Report Roger Mexico has made the following comment to Anthony Wells of YouGov re its most recent poll showing a 14% Tory lead. Anthony has yet to respond.
'Anthony
I’m actually a little puzzled about the way the final figures are worked out on this poll. If you look at the basic figures for VI before any LTV processing and whatever they are:
Con 26% (-1)
Lab 21% (+1)
Lib Dem 7% (+2)
UKIP 11% (+2)
SNP/PC 4% (nc)
Other[1] 4% (nc)
Would not vote 11% (nc)
Don’t know 16% (-3)
I know you can’t estimate final percentages exactly from this, but I would expect the direction of movement to be the same in the headline figures. So for the Con-Lab lead to increase and the UKIP percentage to go down in those seems strange. Especially as the LTV figures for Lab and UKIP voters seem higher than the Con ones in this poll.'0 -
Not tried Mr T, though I'd like to. It's very east in terms of its London focus. (I'm just west of Lords)SeanT said:I hope the health of Alastair's partner continues to improve.
Has anyone else tried Amazon Fresh? It's incredible - they deliver food and booze, groceries and staples - to your door, within a specific HOUR, on the same day as you order.
Their wine selection alone is better than any online supermarket. Prices are super-competitive.
They're gonna slaughter the competition, starting with Ocado.
I imagine Amazon are running a loss-leader, and they're chasing a loss-leader in a sector that has found newfound losses. Sort of interesting.
(edit) PS Although I think that the header is the daftest thing ever, I do of course echo the good wishes towards Alastair and his partner.0 -
Yes, it is amazing. Prime Now is also amazing.SeanT said:I hope the health of Alastair's partner continues to improve.
Has anyone else tried Amazon Fresh? It's incredible - they deliver food and booze, groceries and staples - to your door, within a specific HOUR, on the same day as you order.
Their wine selection alone is better than any online supermarket. Prices are super-competitive.
They're gonna slaughter the competition, starting with Ocado.0 -
National - IBD/TIPP
Clinton 46 .. Trump 39
http://www.investors.com/politics/trump-loses-ground-across-the-board-against-clinton-poll-finds/0 -
Quick appeal to Robert - would it be possible to make the archives side bar shorter; it often overruns the comments box, and more frustratingly, individual links overrun the 'post comment' button making posting difficult...0
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Wow. Their wine selection is pretty impressive. I only looked at the English sparkling and saw that they stock Gusbourne and Ridgeview.SeanT said:I hope the health of Alastair's partner continues to improve.
Has anyone else tried Amazon Fresh? It's incredible - they deliver food and booze, groceries and staples - to your door, within a specific HOUR, on the same day as you order.
Their wine selection alone is better than any online supermarket. Prices are super-competitive.
They're gonna slaughter the competition, starting with Ocado.0 -
Fav/Unfav -Gallup .. Clinton 41/54 .. Trump 33/62
http://www.gallup.com/poll/189299/presidential-election-2016-key-indicators.aspx0 -
Only just seen Alistair's article. He's right. Those who caused Brexit should pay. How about the sneering, overbearing, self-defining metropolitan elite, whose contempt for much of the country and its citizens prompted the rebellion against the proclaimed masters?0
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Amazon is just so gosh darn convenient for so many things now. Praise be to our future overlords - Google, Amazon and Facebook.0
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I think the fact that Labour, especially at this point in the parliamentary cycle, and rarely registered leads should be cause for concern. But hey, drawing level with the Tories is progress these days.HYUFD said:
10 days agojustin124 said:
Also an interesting BMG poll carried out between July 22nd - 26th. Not all pollsters show a big Tory lead!PlatoSaid said:General Election
A few anomalies when YOUGOV try to predict what the don't knows will do
https://t.co/NeUG9DHcfY
Your thoughts are welcome
Con 34%
Lab 32%
Lib Dem 8%
UKIP 13%
Green 8%
SNP 4%
PC 1%
Other 1%0 -
I had thought that with the referendum over we had already reached peak tripe. This article very definitively proves me utterly wrong.0
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Donald Trump's comments on nuclear weapons has got a lot of Americans spooked.
The Democrats sound bite that your are going to hear a lot is "Nuclear war is bad for business"0 -
Is it just me....I have zero "Olympic Spirit" this time. Normally I look forward to watching all sorts of sports I would never normally watched played by people who I have never heard of, but this time around I really can't be arsed.
Perhaps still hung over from 2012. It feels a lot less low profile after the wall to wall London build up 4 years ago.0 -
I feel sorry for the Brazilians who've spent so much treasure for such footling rewards. I'll still watch the swimming and canoeing. The athletics has little credibility.FrancisUrquhart said:Is it just me....I have zero "Olympic Spirit" this time. Normally I look forward to watching all sorts of sports I would never normally watched played by people who I have never heard of, but this time around I really can't be arsed.
Perhaps still hung over from 2012. It feels a lot less low profile after the wall to wall London build up 4 years ago.0 -
Since when was 2% behind drawing level?Razedabode said:
I think the fact that Labour, especially at this point in the parliamentary cycle, and rarely registered leads should be cause for concern. But hey, drawing level with the Tories is progress these days.HYUFD said:
10 days agojustin124 said:
Also an interesting BMG poll carried out between July 22nd - 26th. Not all pollsters show a big Tory lead!PlatoSaid said:General Election
A few anomalies when YOUGOV try to predict what the don't knows will do
https://t.co/NeUG9DHcfY
Your thoughts are welcome
Con 34%
Lab 32%
Lib Dem 8%
UKIP 13%
Green 8%
SNP 4%
PC 1%
Other 1%0 -
A disgusting comment, quite frankly.Pong said:
Are you saying Jo Cox was asking for it?david_herdson said:Only just seen Alistair's article. He's right. Those who caused Brexit should pay. How about the sneering, overbearing, self-defining metropolitan elite, whose contempt for much of the country and its citizens prompted the rebellion against the proclaimed masters?
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The wine prices are competitive, but the range is heavily big name mass produced plonk.Omnium said:
Not tried Mr T, though I'd like to. It's very east in terms of its London focus. (I'm just west of Lords)SeanT said:I hope the health of Alastair's partner continues to improve.
Has anyone else tried Amazon Fresh? It's incredible - they deliver food and booze, groceries and staples - to your door, within a specific HOUR, on the same day as you order.
Their wine selection alone is better than any online supermarket. Prices are super-competitive.
They're gonna slaughter the competition, starting with Ocado.
I imagine Amazon are running a loss-leader, and they're chasing a loss-leader in a sector that has found newfound losses. Sort of interesting.
(edit) PS Although I think that the header is the daftest thing ever, I do of course echo the good wishes towards Alastair and his partner.
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No, but I'm sure you think the French are at fault for the terrorist attacks that have blighted them recently. Snore.Pong said:
Are you saying Jo Cox was asking for it?david_herdson said:Only just seen Alistair's article. He's right. Those who caused Brexit should pay. How about the sneering, overbearing, self-defining metropolitan elite, whose contempt for much of the country and its citizens prompted the rebellion against the proclaimed masters?
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Superior drones I presume?Alistair said:Argos craps on Amazon from a height.
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I see meeks is trolling us again.
I think we should have a special remainer tax on sections of society that prefominantly voted remain to pay the EU contributions until we have left.
Trebling council tax in London and Scotland ought to raise enough0 -
A kinder, gentler politics.RobD said:
A disgusting comment, quite frankly.Pong said:
Are you saying Jo Cox was asking for it?david_herdson said:Only just seen Alistair's article. He's right. Those who caused Brexit should pay. How about the sneering, overbearing, self-defining metropolitan elite, whose contempt for much of the country and its citizens prompted the rebellion against the proclaimed masters?
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Have some sympathy - since the USSR collapsed the EU was their last hope for unaccountable socialist bureaucrats to rule us.MP_SE said:
The Eurofanatics' steady stream of squealing has been most entertaining.Chameleon said:I had thought that with the referendum over we had already reached peak tripe. This article very definitively proves me utterly wrong.
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