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  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    MattW said:

    weejonnie said:

    CD13 said:

    The refrain on here is that Trump is absurd, idiotic, or straight forward mad. Although I'm no expert on US politics, my view is that he's none of those. He is a good politician, he knows what works with his voters. HRC is a poor politician, riding on the coat tails of connections and money.

    Incidentally, I don't regard being a good politician as a compliment, but it's easy to make the old mistake of thinking that people who disagree with you must be wrong and/or stupid (the default setting for the "elite").

    Trumps actual policies aren't extreme for the Republican party, it's only his manner and some of his pubic utterances that are designed to set up howls of rage from the that same elite. He's playing them like a violin.

    He might win, he probably won't, but he's the Bernie of the GOP. And the public current mood in many countries is for an "outsider".

    If he's elected, I suspect he'll be far more sensible than some think.

    An actor won big not long ago. No one expected that either.

    Edit: "If he's elected, I suspect he'll be far more sensible than some think." I wish I could say the same about Jezza.

    A peanut farmer won a bit longer ago. However 'Bernie' lost while Trump won. (Usual occupation of POTUS is a Lawyer - at least recently, initially they tended to be farmers/ plantation owners.)
    Reagan is interesting.

    An actor and President of the Screen Actors Guild. He was also a motivational speaker (says Wiki) in the 1950s.

    But he did not switch from Democrat to Republican until he was in his 50s, and became Governor of Cali only 4 years later.
    His brief speech at the convention after losing the nomination in 76 was one of those moments when people realised they picked the wrong man.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eSmfldz_bA
    Long gone are the days when California could birth a Reagen or a Nixon. Tragic.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    felix said:

    felix said:

    John_M said:

    Moses_ said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:
    Amazing what's possible post-Brexit. The great national constipation is being purged.
    It's true we're gonna be crapped on for the next few years.
    I don't know what you mean by "we", I've never even visited Spain.
    Oh dear - if you think the damage will be limited to Europe you're in for a nasty shock - but it wasfunny to see you referring to constipation. Here in Spain almost all problems can be borne with 325 sunny days and prices even now 30% less than the UK.
    So you have been and are one of the most vociferous opponents on this site of the U.K people determining its own future and how it is governed .

    Now you openly admit you live in Spain ???You don't even live in this country???

    M'kay
    You'll find that some of the grumpiest Remainers on this site are domiciled abroad, with income denominated in Sterling. Hence the saltiness.
    Lol - fair point but I'm not so grumpy and will cope very well in the future living here. not the case for all 'expats' though. Many are elderly, frail and on quite limited incomes - if they are forced to return they'd be a huge burden on the UK health and benefit system.
    They would not be a huge burden at all, there are far to few of them for it to matter much.

    Not that I think there is the slightest chance of them being forced to return. Elderly Brits lived abroad before 1973.
    Hmm - there are several hundred thousand in Spain alone - I didn't realise the NHS was quite so unburdened or local council care homes.
    The number of expats in living in Europe is tiny compared to the population of the UK (see posts by others up-thread), the number of said expats who, if they are forced to return, who would need serious health care and or nursing homes is even smaller. Unless the Spanish go in for mass deportations, the number arriving at anyone time would be so small as to be trivial given the number of elderly patients the NHS treats every day.

    I'll say again it was perfectly possible for elderly Brits to live and get health care in Spain/Portugal etc before the countries joined what is now the EU. It will be after we leave.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 19,718
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:

    Apparently Owen Smith is giving a "major" speech...

    https://twitter.com/sean_kemp/status/758245066049748992

    Just as a gazillion US flags & a mega screen 'is' Trump, this backdrop just screams Owen Smith.
    He's going to give hope to middle managers everywhere that one day we might run the country :)
    He looks like a younger version of President Hollande.

    They both look like haddocks in a suit.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 55,439
    Why didn't Labour have more heavyweight MPs standing, rather than Eagle and Smith?
  • felixfelix Posts: 12,840
    TGOHF said:

    What is a 541 Party svp

    541 Parly if Scotland gets Indy.

    Which isn't happening any time soon.
    I do doubt even post-Brexit whether the vote is there for Sindy - even the early polls I've seen suggest it may not pass.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    British Embassy
    Exciting news, we're planning three new offices in the US! See you soon Minneapolis, Raleigh and San Diego! https://t.co/Mf8HnA02S4
  • felixfelix Posts: 12,840
    Scott_P said:

    Oh dear

    @SophyRidgeSky: Owen Smith says of Theresa May that it "pained" him Labour didn't have the power "to smash her back on her heels"

    @paulwaugh: Looks like the 'smash her back on her heels' line re Theresa May was not in the speech text, Smith went off-script for that one.

    How long until he has to "clarify" that one...

    Indeed - Labour's woman problem just gets worse and worse.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:

    Apparently Owen Smith is giving a "major" speech...

    https://twitter.com/sean_kemp/status/758245066049748992

    Just as a gazillion US flags & a mega screen 'is' Trump, this backdrop just screams Owen Smith.
    He's going to give hope to middle managers everywhere that one day we might run the country :)
    When will things be improving, then?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 65,453
    Scott_P said:

    Oh dear

    @SophyRidgeSky: Owen Smith says of Theresa May that it "pained" him Labour didn't have the power "to smash her back on her heels"

    @paulwaugh: Looks like the 'smash her back on her heels' line re Theresa May was not in the speech text, Smith went off-script for that one.

    How long until he has to "clarify" that one...

    He's a complete misogynist. See his exchange with Leanne Wood as well.
  • Why didn't Labour have more heavyweight MPs standing, rather than Eagle and Smith?

    Because they've seen the polling, they'd get thrashed by Corbyn
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    runnymede said:

    When will things be improving, then?

    Hold on while I fire up Powerpoint...
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,299

    Why didn't Labour have more heavyweight MPs standing, rather than Eagle and Smith?

    Mr Dancer - the heavyweights can do politics and can spot an elephant trap a mile off. This wasn't a contest for serious people to dirty their hands with.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 19,718
    Scott_P said:

    Oh dear

    @SophyRidgeSky: Owen Smith says of Theresa May that it "pained" him Labour didn't have the power "to smash her back on her heels"

    @paulwaugh: Looks like the 'smash her back on her heels' line re Theresa May was not in the speech text, Smith went off-script for that one.

    How long until he has to "clarify" that one...

    I think they're trying their very best to lose as many women's votes as possible........

  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    PlatoSaid said:

    British Embassy
    Exciting news, we're planning three new offices in the US! See you soon Minneapolis, Raleigh and San Diego! https://t.co/Mf8HnA02S4

    Brittania unbound. Thanks Boris.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 65,453
    PlatoSaid said:

    British Embassy
    Exciting news, we're planning three new offices in the US! See you soon Minneapolis, Raleigh and San Diego! https://t.co/Mf8HnA02S4

    3 DEM cities, I think.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @politicshome: Owen Smith lays into Corbyn and McDonnell on opposition strength: "John and Jeremy, for all their good intentions, have been weak."

    No

    They have been weak opposition to the Tories, but brutal opposition to their enemies on the Labour benches...
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited July 2016
    Scott_P said:
    Now, here's Owen to explain the new company desk-sharing policy.
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Owen will bring back a Ministry of Labour?

    And one of Plenty? Peace? Love?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 36,987
    felix said:

    DavidL said:

    felix said:

    John_M said:

    felix said:

    John_M said:

    Moses_ said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:
    Amazing what's possible post-Brexit. The great national constipation is being purged.
    It's true we're gonna be crapped on for the next few years.
    I don't know what you mean by "we", I've never even visited Spain.
    Oh dear - if you think the damage will be limited to Europe you're in for a nasty shock - but it wasfunny to see you referring to constipation. Here in Spain almost all problems can be borne with 325 sunny days and prices even now 30% less than the UK.
    So you have been and are one of the most vociferous opponents on this site of the U.K people determining its own future and how it is governed .

    Now you openly admit you live in Spain ???You don't even live in this country???

    M'kay
    You'll find that some of the grumpiest Remainers on this site are domiciled abroad, with income denominated in Sterling. Hence the saltiness.
    Lol - fair point but I'm not so grumpy and will cope very well in the future living here. not the case for all 'expats' though. Many are elderly, frail and on quite limited incomes - if they are forced to return they'd be a huge burden on the UK health and benefit system.
    I tried to make the observation as neutral as I could :).

    At this point, I'm just going to play the cards as they are dealt. If Spain decides that it is in its national interest to repatriate British citizens, or elderly Brits desire to return home due to impoverishment, we'll take it from there. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof and all that.
    One hopes that both sides will be sensible. Spain may try to be silly by involving Gibraltar in the discussions [ mind you if you've been there, apart from the weather its a pretty naff dump!] while the UK has David Davis - although to be fair so far he's still sounding mostly sane. :)
    Not saying much then?
    One has to be kind - he went through a pretty odd phase a few years back. :)
    Indeed. Some might argue since 1948. References to the negotiations being like the Schleswig-Holstein Question will obviously help though.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PolhomeEditor: Owen Smith: "John (McDonnell) and Jeremy, for all their good intentions, have been weak." Cue "we don't do personal attacks" Corbyn response
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 37,077
    Pessimists in the Labour party think that it couldn't be worse than Jeremy Corbyn. Owen Smith is proving to the optimists that it could.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 55,439
    Mr. Jim/Mr. Eagles, jein.

    If they actually want to win, they need the best possible candidate. Assume Corbyn wins: what next? Wait to be crushed in 2020?

    Labour complacency worked a treat for them in Scotland. If UKIP's new leader gets stuck into norther/eastern constituencies, Labour could go backwards in another election.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Scott_P said:

    @SophyRidgeSky: Owen Smith says he wants to "smash austerity" & replace the Dpt of Work & Pensions with a Ministry of Labour https://t.co/MAr9CZxXqh

    If there is one thing the DWP needs it's another reorganisation and re-branding :smiley:

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 36,987
    Scott_P said:

    runnymede said:

    When will things be improving, then?

    Hold on while I fire up Powerpoint...
    Genuinely funny. Well done.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @John_M

    "Goldman sounds as dodgy as fuck..."

    What do you mean Goldman Sachs sounds as dodgy as fuck. This is the company that was caught out selling an investment whilst at the same time trading against it, so its value went down. It was also the company who conspired to fix the greek's books so that it appeared they qualified for Euro membership.

    Goldman should have been run out of the City years ago.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @GuidoFawkes: Owen Smith doubles down and repeats that he wants to "smash" Theresa May "on her heels" https://t.co/lWLwOIYuOk
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 36,987
    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:

    Apparently Owen Smith is giving a "major" speech...

    https://twitter.com/sean_kemp/status/758245066049748992

    Just as a gazillion US flags & a mega screen 'is' Trump, this backdrop just screams Owen Smith.
    He's going to give hope to middle managers everywhere that one day we might run the country :)
    He looks like a younger version of President Hollande.

    They both look like haddocks in a suit.

    But does he have a little motorbike for his excursions?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited July 2016
    @HL

    It may well be possible to live in Spain if self funding social care and Medical Insurance, but not for those relying on the Spanish state. That is indeed what we are headed for in terms of EU migrants here so would come as little surprise. I see market forces doing this rather than deportations. Wealthier people like me will still have the sunshine option.

    Some will need to return, and fewer will likely go out than a decade ago. They may well lose a lot of equity in their properies and indeed find it difficult to sell. The numbers are probably not insignificant, but do require a degree of planning particularly for stretched social services and NHS in retirement areas in the UK.
  • felixfelix Posts: 12,840

    felix said:

    felix said:

    John_M said:

    Moses_ said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    So you have been and are one of the most vociferous opponents on this site of the U.K people determining its own future and how it is governed .

    Now you openly admit you live in Spain ???You don't even live in this country???

    M'kay
    You'll find that some of the grumpiest Remainers on this site are domiciled abroad, with income denominated in Sterling. Hence the saltiness.
    Lol - fair point but I'm not so grumpy and will cope very well in the future living here. not the case for all 'expats' though. Many are elderly, frail and on quite limited incomes - if they are forced to return they'd be a huge burden on the UK health and benefit system.
    They would not be a huge burden at all, there are far to few of them for it to matter much.

    Not that I think there is the slightest chance of them being forced to return. Elderly Brits lived abroad before 1973.
    Hmm - there are several hundred thousand in Spain alone - I didn't realise the NHS was quite so unburdened or local council care homes.

    I'll say again it was perfectly possible for elderly Brits to live and get health care in Spain/Portugal etc before the countries joined what is now the EU. It will be after we leave.
    Yes but the rules have changed since those times - only pensioners now qualify and the bill is paid by the UK govt. Hopefully that will continue but it is yet to be guaranteed and people are already are planning to return because of the uncertainty. It may be irrational but there you are. There are also likely to be fewer deciding to come - all of which will make it very much harder to get the net migration figures down. There are an estimated 3m Brits living in Europe - unofficially probable more. Not so tiny when you consider the current burdens the UK welfare budgets face - which of course will worsen with slower growth.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 19,718

    Why didn't Labour have more heavyweight MPs standing, rather than Eagle and Smith?

    Who might these heavyweight MPs be, though?

    Balls is not an MP. Harman has turned away from the opportunity. The candidates last time showed themselves to be lightweight. Who else is left?

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 55,439
    Owen Smith = the second/third Angeli emperor?
  • felixfelix Posts: 12,840
    PlatoSaid said:

    British Embassy
    Exciting news, we're planning three new offices in the US! See you soon Minneapolis, Raleigh and San Diego! https://t.co/Mf8HnA02S4

    Hope the cost won't be coming out of the £350m for the NHS.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Steven Swinford
    Owen Smith it very keen on 'smashing'. He's now used it about half a dozen times to describe what he wants to do to Theresa May and Tories
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 53,948
    felix said:

    TGOHF said:

    What is a 541 Party svp

    541 Parly if Scotland gets Indy.

    Which isn't happening any time soon.
    I do doubt even post-Brexit whether the vote is there for Sindy - even the early polls I've seen suggest it may not pass.
    Do the Scots get 59 MPs in a 600 seat Parliament?
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,299
    Mr Dancer - I would point you to Sun Tzu

    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win"
  • Scott_P said:

    @GuidoFawkes: Owen Smith doubles down and repeats that he wants to "smash" Theresa May "on her heels" https://t.co/lWLwOIYuOk

    The Labour Leader of Camden council accused me of being sexist for calling Theresa May's reshuffle the night of the long kitten heels.

    What say you now!
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    felix said:

    Indeed - Labour's woman problem just gets worse and worse.

    It's that time of the month ....

  • felixfelix Posts: 12,840
    DavidL said:

    felix said:

    DavidL said:

    felix said:

    John_M said:

    felix said:

    John_M said:

    Moses_ said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:
    Amazing what's possible post-Brexit. The great national constipation is being purged.
    It's true we're gonna be crapped on for the next few years.
    I don't know what you mean by "we", I've never even visited Spain.
    Oh dear - if you think the damage will be limited to Europe you're in for a nasty shock - but it wasfunny to see you referring to constipation. Here in Spain almost all problems can be borne with 325 sunny days and prices even now 30% less than the UK.
    So you have been and are one of the most vociferous opponents on this site of the U.K people determining its own future and how it is governed .

    Now you openly admit you live in Spain ???You don't even live in this country???

    M'kay
    You'll find that some of the grumpiest Remainers on this site are domiciled abroad, with income denominated in Sterling. Hence the saltiness.
    Lol - fair point but I'm not so grumpy and will cope very well in the future living here. not the case for all 'expats' though. Many are elderly, frail and on quite limited incomes - if they are forced to return they'd be a huge burden on the UK health and benefit system.
    I tried to make the observation as neutral as I could :).

    At this point, I'm just going to play the cards as they are dealt. If Spain decides that it is in its national interest to repatriate British citizens, or elderly Brits desire to return home due to impoverishment, we'll take it from there. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof and all that.
    One hopes that both sides will be sensible. Spain may try to be silly by involving Gibraltar in the discussions [ mind you if you've been there, apart from the weather its a pretty naff dump!] while the UK has David Davis - although to be fair so far he's still sounding mostly sane. :)
    Not saying much then?
    One has to be kind - he went through a pretty odd phase a few years back. :)
    Indeed. Some might argue since 1948. References to the negotiations being like the Schleswig-Holstein Question will obviously help though.
    Oh dear - back to my A Levels with S/H Q
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 55,439
    Mr. Jim, Sun Tzu also wrote that a battle which cannot be won should be avoided.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:

    Oh dear

    @SophyRidgeSky: Owen Smith says of Theresa May that it "pained" him Labour didn't have the power "to smash her back on her heels"

    @paulwaugh: Looks like the 'smash her back on her heels' line re Theresa May was not in the speech text, Smith went off-script for that one.

    How long until he has to "clarify" that one...

    I think they're trying their very best to lose as many women's votes as possible........

    Indeed, typical aggressive misogyny - usual silence from the Ladies of the shadow frontbench.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    George Eaton
    Smith's policy agenda shows how Corbyn has shifted Labour's internal debate dramatically leftwards. https://t.co/kG5TGsJdOD
  • NEW THREAD NEW THREAD

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 65,453

    felix said:

    TGOHF said:

    What is a 541 Party svp

    541 Parly if Scotland gets Indy.

    Which isn't happening any time soon.
    I do doubt even post-Brexit whether the vote is there for Sindy - even the early polls I've seen suggest it may not pass.
    Do the Scots get 59 MPs in a 600 seat Parliament?
    Ooh errm good point - maybe 48 or so ?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 55,439
    For that matter, Zhuge Liang wrote that the eighth type of decadence in generalship is to talk wildly, without courtesy.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Iain Dale
    Owen Smith achieving the impossible and sounding more left wing than Jeremy Corbyn. Trouble is, we all know he's playing to the gallery.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    DavidL said:



    ... References to the negotiations being like the Schleswig-Holstein Question will obviously help though.

    If I remember my Flashman, according to Palmerston the Schleswig-Holstein Question was only understood by three men: Prince Albert who was dead, a German professor who went mad and Pam himself who had forgotten all about it.

    Not sure that sort analogy will be useful.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,299

    Mr. Jim, Sun Tzu also wrote that a battle which cannot be won should be avoided.

    Indeed Mr Dancer clearly certain PLP members should be sent a copy of The Art of War to bone up!
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    British Embassy
    Exciting news, we're planning three new offices in the US! See you soon Minneapolis, Raleigh and San Diego! https://t.co/Mf8HnA02S4

    Hope the cost won't be coming out of the £350m for the NHS.
    Owen Smith is going to give a 4% p.a. real terms increase from 2020. That's 21% or an additional £73 billion over the lifetime of the next parliament.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 32,492
    felix said:

    Moses_ said:

    felix said:

    Moses_ said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:
    Amazing what's possible post-Brexit. The great national constipation is being purged.
    It's true we're gonna be crapped on for the next few years.
    I don't know what you mean by "we", I've never even visited Spain.
    Oh dear - if you think the damage will be limited to Europe you're in for a nasty shock - but it wasfunny to see you referring to constipation. Here in Spain almost all problems can be borne with 325 sunny days and prices even now 30% less than the UK.
    So you have been and are one of the most vociferous opponents on this site of the U.K people determining its own future and how it is governed .

    Now you openly admit you live in Spain ???You don't even live in this country???

    M'kay
    I remain a UK citizen and pay most of my taxes in the UK and vote in Uk elections.. It has never been a secret that I live in Spain. Why on earth would that be a problem for a non-bigot?
    Original Deleted..not worth a reply
    Oh dear! I have a teacher's pension - wholly taxed in the UK. I have a private pension wholly taxed in Spain exactly as required by the double tax treaty. I have savings in both with taxes fully paid in both. I pay for private healthcare and claim no benefits either in Spain or the UK.
    You really are making a tit of yourself.
    Not an unusual thing
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,299
    The Labour leadership election is like a time warp back to the 80s and you have two choices of car, a Skoda or a Lada.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 32,492
    TGOHF said:

    What is a 541 Party svp

    541 Parly if Scotland gets Indy.

    Which isn't happening any time soon.
    Keep those fingers crossed
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 32,492
    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    Discovered something interesting on the ONS site. Only 15.2% of all UK companies do any international trade of any sort, either EU or RoW.

    Only 40% of large (>250 folk) companies export. For small businesses (<50 folk) the ratio is even lower, just 10.2%.</p>

    Although those datasets should be treated with a large degree of caution. Let me give you an example. When I worked at Goldman Sachs, I was technically an employee of Goldman Sachs Services Ltd, on secondment to another company (who's name I forget). There were literally hundreds of companies under the Goldman Sachs International Ltd umbrella. And most of them didn't export.

    (Why so many firms? My guess was to use limited liability cover to ensure that problems in one part might be firewalled. But that's only a guess.)
    Or maybe tax
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 32,492

    PlatoSaid said:

    British Embassy
    Exciting news, we're planning three new offices in the US! See you soon Minneapolis, Raleigh and San Diego! https://t.co/Mf8HnA02S4

    Brittania unbound. Thanks Boris.
    3 new sets of troughers living high on the hog
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    John_M said:

    Scott_P said:

    @SophyRidgeSky: Owen Smith says he wants to "smash austerity" & replace the Dpt of Work & Pensions with a Ministry of Labour https://t.co/MAr9CZxXqh

    I'd like to know what the actual fuck 'privatising the national debt' is supposed to mean.
    Listened to a lot of it. He sounds waaaay more professional than his opponent and seemed to have real passion. He would be a lot, lot more appealing that JC in the North and Scotland (and Wales, natch).

    However, to my right-wing ears if somebody had played the speech and told me it was from a Labour conference in 1978, I'd have believed them. Must have mentioned 'workers' over 50 times; 'workers rights' 20 times. Firm belief in the Magic Money Tree.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Roger Scully
    The New Electoral Boundaries in Wales

    https://t.co/3FdQAOiH3Z
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 40,362
    Anorak said:

    John_M said:

    Scott_P said:

    @SophyRidgeSky: Owen Smith says he wants to "smash austerity" & replace the Dpt of Work & Pensions with a Ministry of Labour https://t.co/MAr9CZxXqh

    I'd like to know what the actual fuck 'privatising the national debt' is supposed to mean.
    Listened to a lot of it. He sounds waaaay more professional than his opponent and seemed to have real passion. He would be a lot, lot more appealing that JC in the North and Scotland (and Wales, natch).

    However, to my right-wing ears if somebody had played the speech and told me it was from a Labour conference in 1978, I'd have believed them. Must have mentioned 'workers' over 50 times; 'workers rights' 20 times. Firm belief in the Magic Money Tree.
    Don't forget his only job at the moment is to win around Labour members, not the public.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Ummm

    Politics Home
    Lab leader hopeful Owen Smith denounces "misty eyed romanticism about a revolution" and calls for a "cold eyed and practical revolution".
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    edited July 2016

    felix said:

    TGOHF said:

    What is a 541 Party svp

    541 Parly if Scotland gets Indy.

    Which isn't happening any time soon.
    I do doubt even post-Brexit whether the vote is there for Sindy - even the early polls I've seen suggest it may not pass.
    Do the Scots get 59 MPs in a 600 seat Parliament?
    53 Scottish seats according to http://www.bcomm-scotland.independent.gov.uk/6th_westminster/ We can assume ths SNP would get 51 of them.

    This marginally reduces their %ge representation. (as it reflects increasing population of England)
This discussion has been closed.