politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » On a momentous day in British politics the latest PB/Pollin

OllyT said:

anotherDave said:

Who were the original Cameron crew?
Cameron, Osborne, Gove, Maude, Boles. Who else?

Fine if you focus on the personalities, in terms of politics though May's speech tonight could have come straight from a Cameroonian moderniser, a Lib Dem or a Labour Blairite.

I also suspect Fox, Johnson & Davis are in the cabinet to ensure they can't dodge responsibility for the betrayal that is coming when we agree to continued freedom of movement and continued payment into the EU budget courtesy of EFTA/EEA.

I read a piece earlier tonight that classified modernisers into different brackets. The Cameroons would the soho one:

"This is why the clash between IDS and George Osborne is so important. The two men represent, in Tim Montgomerie’s dichotomy, the two approaches of the modern Party: Easterhouse modernisation, which focuses on fighting the kind of poverty found on the Glasgow estate after which it is named, and Soho modernisation, which is all about social liberalism.

Easterhouse and Soho are useful labels, but they represent a false choice for the Party. Both approaches have their achievements – Easterhouse brought us the Modern Slavery Act while Soho brought us equal marriage – but they also have their limitations and weaknesses. Easterhouse requires a focus on fighting extreme poverty rather than helping people who might be just a little better off, but for whom life is still a struggle. Soho often focuses on causes, like the pursuit of “general wellbeing” and support for “green taxes”, that are far removed from – and sometimes run directly against – the interests of ordinary families.

Instead of these polarising approaches, I have always felt we should have a different model, that might – to extend Tim’s language – be called Erdington modernisation, named after the working-class area of Birmingham. With this approach, of course we would still help the very poor and of course we would fight injustices based on gender, race and sexuality, but the Party would adopt a relentless focus on governing in the interests of ordinary, working people."

http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2016/03/nick-timothy-what-does-the-conservative-party-offer-a-working-class-kid-from-brixton-birmingham-bolton-or-bradford.html

HurstLlama said:

Good heavens, just got back from t'meeting to find my wife laughing like a hyena. She had just seen that Boris Johnson, a man of no ministerial experience and with a known aversion to detail and hard work has been appointed Foreign Secretary. Not only that but David Davis, not a team player, has been appointed SoS for Brexit and Liam Fox, who made a complete pig's breakfast of it last time they let him loose in government, has been given international trade.

Leave aside the personalities we now have three separate departments which on the face of it have overlapping responsibilities and interests, to say nothing of the BIS. That is a recipe for one glorious Civil Service interdepartmental war. Now factor back in the personalities FCO head (no experience of government, lazy), Brexit head (not a team player, no government experience), International Trade (incompetent). This has the makings of a major clusterfuck. What has our new PM done?

Amber "clueless, spout my brief" Rudd at the Home Office pales by comparison.

Osborne has gone though, which I suppose we should be grateful for.

DING DONG
THE WICKED GEORGE IS DEAD

Aslan has returned

the ring is cast into Mount Doom

Winterfell has been retaken

OllyT said:

anotherDave said:

Who were the original Cameron crew?
Cameron, Osborne, Gove, Maude, Boles. Who else?

Fine if you focus on the personalities, in terms of politics though May's speech tonight could have come straight from a Cameroonian moderniser, a Lib Dem or a Labour Blairite.

I also suspect Fox, Johnson & Davis are in the cabinet to ensure they can't dodge responsibility for the betrayal that is coming when we agree to continued freedom of movement and continued payment into the EU budget courtesy of EFTA/EEA.

That particular buck stops with Theresa May.

Jobabob said:

Off topic, second referendum policy smart move by Owen Smith. I personally don't agree with idea but could be catnip to a very Europhile membership (Lab members 90% Remain) and is a trap for Corbyn (a eurosceptic). Clever.

Indeed, it's the one policy area where the PLP is closer than Corbyn to the membership!

tlg86 said:

oxfordsimon said:

HurstLlama said:

Good heavens, just got back from t'meeting to find my wife laughing like a hyena. She had just seen that Boris Johnson, a man of no ministerial experience and with a known aversion to detail and hard work has been appointed Foreign Secretary. Not only that but David Davis, not a team player, has been appointed SoS for Brexit and Liam Fox, who made a complete pig's breakfast of it last time they let him loose in government, has been given international trade.

Leave aside the personalities we now have three separate departments which on the face of it have overlapping responsibilities and interests, to say nothing of the BIS. That is a recipe for one glorious Civil Service interdepartmental war. Now factor back in the personalities FCO head (no experience of government, lazy), Brexit head (not a team player, no government experience), International Trade (incompetent). This has the makings of a major clusterfuck. What has our new PM done?

Amber "clueless, spout my brief" Rudd at the Home Office pales by comparison.

Osborne has gone though, which I suppose we should be grateful for.

It seems that BIS is gone. Education takes back Universities and Skills and Fox taking on the Trade side of things in the new Department for International Trade

She's abolishing departments? Great news if true. Let's hope DCMS follows swiftly.

Abolishing as in the Sir Humphrey sense. I have already counted two new ones!

rottenborough said:

Blimey. That's a huge chunk of my adult life.

Giles Wilkes ‏@Gilesyb 1h1 hour ago
It has been 24 years since one of Gordon Brown or George Osborne has not been Chancellor or Shadow Chancellor.

Wasn't Darling briefly in the picture?

Jobabob said:

Alanbrooke said:

Jobabob said:

Pulpstar said:

May's got an enemy on the backbenches. He's quite unlikeable (And still young) but he will scheme and scheme and scheme

Yep. She may regret that. By the way Ozzy is actually said to be a nice guy and easy to get along with in "real life". His acolytes are loyal.

FUCK OFF AND JOIN THE TORIES JAB !

Which ale have you have several pints of Alan? I'm always keen on recommendations!

Toxic George

No body, hops all over the place guaranteed hangover

oxfordsimon said:

HurstLlama said:

Good heavens, just got back from t'meeting to find my wife laughing like a hyena. She had just seen that Boris Johnson, a man of no ministerial experience and with a known aversion to detail and hard work has been appointed Foreign Secretary. Not only that but David Davis, not a team player, has been appointed SoS for Brexit and Liam Fox, who made a complete pig's breakfast of it last time they let him loose in government, has been given international trade.

Leave aside the personalities we now have three separate departments which on the face of it have overlapping responsibilities and interests, to say nothing of the BIS. That is a recipe for one glorious Civil Service interdepartmental war. Now factor back in the personalities FCO head (no experience of government, lazy), Brexit head (not a team player, no government experience), International Trade (incompetent). This has the makings of a major clusterfuck. What has our new PM done?

Amber "clueless, spout my brief" Rudd at the Home Office pales by comparison.

Osborne has gone though, which I suppose we should be grateful for.

It seems that BIS is gone. Education takes back Universities and Skills and Fox taking on the Trade side of things in the new Department for International Trade

What happens to industry? We've still got a fair amount left. Or does that go to Environment or direct to the Treasury?

HurstLlama said:

Good heavens, just got back from t'meeting to find my wife laughing like a hyena. She had just seen that Boris Johnson, a man of no ministerial experience and with a known aversion to detail and hard work has been appointed Foreign Secretary. Not only that but David Davis, not a team player, has been appointed SoS for Brexit and Liam Fox, who made a complete pig's breakfast of it last time they let him loose in government, has been given international trade.

Leave aside the personalities we now have three separate departments which on the face of it have overlapping responsibilities and interests, to say nothing of the BIS. That is a recipe for one glorious Civil Service interdepartmental war. Now factor back in the personalities FCO head (no experience of government, lazy), Brexit head (not a team player, no government experience), International Trade (incompetent). This has the makings of a major clusterfuck. What has our new PM done?

Amber "clueless, spout my brief" Rudd at the Home Office pales by comparison.

Osborne has gone though, which I suppose we should be grateful for.

Maybe she is setting them up to fail.

tlg86 said:

Going off May, are we Scott?

Still counting my winnings

She has certainly made some interesting choices, which have been warmly welcomed by Nigel Farage

Either a huge mistake, or much more cunning than it appears at first glance

But definitely fits with both "Brexit means Brexit" and "You Brexit, you bought it"

Just seen the cabinet. Who said May doesn't have a sense of humour!

Jobabob said:

tlg86 said:

oxfordsimon said:

HurstLlama said:

Good heavens, just got back from t'meeting to find my wife laughing like a hyena. She had just seen that Boris Johnson, a man of no ministerial experience and with a known aversion to detail and hard work has been appointed Foreign Secretary. Not only that but David Davis, not a team player, has been appointed SoS for Brexit and Liam Fox, who made a complete pig's breakfast of it last time they let him loose in government, has been given international trade.

Leave aside the personalities we now have three separate departments which on the face of it have overlapping responsibilities and interests, to say nothing of the BIS. That is a recipe for one glorious Civil Service interdepartmental war. Now factor back in the personalities FCO head (no experience of government, lazy), Brexit head (not a team player, no government experience), International Trade (incompetent). This has the makings of a major clusterfuck. What has our new PM done?

Amber "clueless, spout my brief" Rudd at the Home Office pales by comparison.

Osborne has gone though, which I suppose we should be grateful for.

It seems that BIS is gone. Education takes back Universities and Skills and Fox taking on the Trade side of things in the new Department for International Trade

She's abolishing departments? Great news if true. Let's hope DCMS follows swiftly.

Abolishing as in the Sir Humphrey sense. I have already counted two new ones!

Yeah but they're proper ones.

rottenborough said:

John_M said:

rottenborough said:

Blimey. That's a huge chunk of my adult life.

Giles Wilkes ‏@Gilesyb 1h1 hour ago
It has been 24 years since one of Gordon Brown or George Osborne has not been Chancellor or Shadow Chancellor.

Wasn't Darling briefly in the picture?

Er, yes, good point. Maybe the assumption is that he was CINO.

Ask yourself who the Shadow Chancellor was while Darling was Chancellor and then you the truth will be revealed to you

Have to read the statement carefully - it's only claiming that for the past 24 years either Brown was chancellor/shadow, orOsborne was chancellor/shadow, or both ... but not necessarily both.

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/753323583456370689

old_labour said:

Jobabob said:

Off topic, second referendum policy smart move by Owen Smith. I personally don't agree with idea but could be catnip to a very Europhile membership (Lab members 90% Remain) and is a trap for Corbyn (a eurosceptic). Clever.

Not if the choice is between Brexit Lite and 100% Out.

With those three clowns in charge of foreign affairs we'll have not a clue what the proposal looks like by the time Labour members vote, if ever

Jobabob said:

Scott_P said:

@MiriamElder: State Dept spox almost loses it after hearing Boris Johnson named foreign secretary https://t.co/omPoCP6Vaa

Ha!

back of the queue yank

chavtastic

MarqueeMark said:

Probably nowhere, like Osborne.....

There are 3 doors... One of them is a backdoor......

Presumably Theresa has some sort of radical plan to house the three foreign affairs departments offshore, perhaps somewhere in the Southern Ocean, connected only by CB radio

May has gone very brexit heavy in the 'outward facing' brexit related departments. The reasons for this could be:

1) Scapegoating - she wants to ensure that any brexit FUBARs don't fall on her head.
2) Compromise - she was never a europhile remainer anyway, so no ideological reason to be against brexit, so why choose that hill to die on? Give the Bastards their Brexit and she may be able to crack on with what she really cares about without too much pushback.
3) Backsliding - A brexiteer can go for EU-lite in a way that a Remainer couldn't.

ydoethur said:

HurstLlama said:

ydoethur said:

oxfordsimon said:

ydoethur said:

I am willing to forgive May everything so far - including BloJo (sic) - if she sacks Morgan and replaces her with absolutely anyone who is sane, intelligent and will hammer the useless berks at DfES and OFSTED.

That would make up for a lot, but I have a horrible feeling Morgan will survive even though she was appointed for gender tokenism reasons to start with.

I am hearing that Greening is heading to a new beefed-up Education department (that will take back control of universities etc from the now defunct BIS)

Yes! Yes! Please! I'll take it...

Come on, Doctor, you are only saying that because Greening has shown herself to be an empty airhead who is easily house trained by her CS staff. So with her at Education, all reform aimed at improving education will be, effectively, abandoned inside six months and producer interests will again prevail.

No, I'm saying that because Morgan is a thoroughly unpleasant woman who was pushing everything because she was told by the poisonous cretins around her that it would help her career.

Greening will be useless. She will achieve nothing. And that means there will be no direction and no new initiatives. We can have a few years of peace and quiet to get on with teaching.

I'd prefer someone good, who would sack every civil servant, abolish both the ministry and the quangos, and then vanish without trace leaving parents to make choices rather than failed hereditary technocrats like Chris Wormald. But amiable incompetence is a decent second best after Gove and Morgan.

Good post, Doc, and one which put me back in my box.

One thought though, if we are to abolish the Ministry and the Quangos, doesn't that entail making every school an independent school, albeit with a level of state funding per pupil? Sounds a grand idea to me but I don't think many of the educational establishment would like it.

Jobabob said:

Presumably Theresa has some sort of radical plan to house the three foreign affairs departments offshore, perhaps somewhere in the Southern Ocean, connected only by CB radio

Fox, Davis and Boris - what could possibly go wrong ?

PeterC said:

Paristonda said:

Jobabob said:

Off topic, second referendum policy smart move by Owen Smith. I personally don't agree with idea but could be catnip to a very Europhile membership (Lab members 90% Remain) and is a trap for Corbyn (a eurosceptic). Clever.

Indeed, it's the one policy area where the PLP is closer than Corbyn to the membership!

A second referendum post Article 50 is not a 'europhile' gesture, it is not a repeat choice between Leave and Remain. It could only be about accepting or rejecting a deal to leave, a proxy for a choice between hard and soft brexit'

That is not what Owen Smith is calling for, he is calling for another In-Out once the negotiations have been done.

Of course it avoids the fact that to negotiate the Brexit deal Article 50 will have to be triggered and we'd be leaving anyway.

It is entirely a gesture to split off Corbyn's softer support.

Shame about Len Goodman

Paristonda said:

May has gone very brexit heavy in the 'outward facing' brexit related departments. The reasons for this could be:

1) Scapegoating - she wants to ensure that any brexit FUBARs don't fall on her head.
2) Compromise - she was never a europhile remainer anyway, so no ideological reason to be against brexit, so why choose that hill to die on? Give the Bastards their Brexit and she may be able to crack on with what she really cares about without too much pushback.
3) Backsliding - A brexiteer can go for EU-lite in a way that a Remainer couldn't.

Theory running on Twitter it gives her cover for a "Norway" deal in short order

Her Maj

just think we could have had president Blair

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/queen-surprises-pub-goers-by-dropping-into-her-local-in-edinburg/

brokenwheel said:

PeterC said:

Paristonda said:

Jobabob said:

Off topic, second referendum policy smart move by Owen Smith. I personally don't agree with idea but could be catnip to a very Europhile membership (Lab members 90% Remain) and is a trap for Corbyn (a eurosceptic). Clever.

Indeed, it's the one policy area where the PLP is closer than Corbyn to the membership!

A second referendum post Article 50 is not a 'europhile' gesture, it is not a repeat choice between Leave and Remain. It could only be about accepting or rejecting a deal to leave, a proxy for a choice between hard and soft brexit'

That is NOT what Owen Smith is calling for, he is calling for another In-Out once the negotiations have been done.

Of course it avoids the fact that to negotiate the Brexit deal artcile 50 will have to be triggered and we'd be leaving anyway.

It is ENTIRELY a gesture to split off Corbyn's softer support.

Owen Smith, like most of what Labour can muster up in Parliament these days, is an idiot and should be ignored.

Him and his party are only going to one place. The dustbin of history.

SeanT said:

Well I predicted, and hoped for, BoJo as Foreign Sec. He's perfect for the task, and it means a Brexiteer gets one of the top jobs. Does anyone really believe Bojo will be WORSE than Hammond? The job of Foreign Secretary is to go round charming foreigners, no more, no less. Boris will do that well.

David Davis as Brexit Minister? Hmm. Not sure.

Otherwise a decent first stab by May.

I think Boris is a shit or bust 50:50 selection

nunu said:

It seems after Brexit the only one receiving a punishment is Osborne! And well deserved.

King over the water when this inevitably goes tits up.

Alanbrooke said:

Jobabob said:

Presumably Theresa has some sort of radical plan to house the three foreign affairs departments offshore, perhaps somewhere in the Southern Ocean, connected only by CB radio

Crossmaglen

Oi My great grandmother came from there (she married a protestant and it didnt go down very well).

rottenborough said:

John_M said:

rottenborough said:

Blimey. That's a huge chunk of my adult life.

Giles Wilkes ‏@Gilesyb 1h1 hour ago
It has been 24 years since one of Gordon Brown or George Osborne has not been Chancellor or Shadow Chancellor.

Wasn't Darling briefly in the picture?

Er, yes, good point. Maybe the assumption is that he was CINO.

I think osborne was shadow when darling was CoE.

Jonathan said:

nunu said:

It seems after Brexit the only one receiving a punishment is Osborne! And well deserved.

King over the water when this inevitably goes tits up.

Just like David Miliband, Edward Heath...

HurstLlama said:

ydoethur said:

HurstLlama said:

ydoethur said:

oxfordsimon said:

ydoethur said:

I am willing to forgive May everything so far - including BloJo (sic) - if she sacks Morgan and replaces her with absolutely anyone who is sane, intelligent and will hammer the useless berks at DfES and OFSTED.

That would make up for a lot, but I have a horrible feeling Morgan will survive even though she was appointed for gender tokenism reasons to start with.

I am hearing that Greening is heading to a new beefed-up Education department (that will take back control of universities etc from the now defunct BIS)

Yes! Yes! Please! I'll take it...

Come on, Doctor, you are only saying that because Greening has shown herself to be an empty airhead who is easily house trained by her CS staff. So with her at Education, all reform aimed at improving education will be, effectively, abandoned inside six months and producer interests will again prevail.

No, I'm saying that because Morgan is a thoroughly unpleasant woman who was pushing everything because she was told by the poisonous cretins around her that it would help her career.

Greening will be useless. She will achieve nothing. And that means there will be no direction and no new initiatives. We can have a few years of peace and quiet to get on with teaching.

I'd prefer someone good, who would sack every civil servant, abolish both the ministry and the quangos, and then vanish without trace leaving parents to make choices rather than failed hereditary technocrats like Chris Wormald. But amiable incompetence is a decent second best after Gove and Morgan.

Good post, Doc, and one which put me back in my box.

One thought though, if we are to abolish the Ministry and the Quangos, doesn't that entail making every school an independent school, albeit with a level of state funding per pupil? Sounds a grand idea to me but I don't think many of the educational establishment would like it.

IIRC the educational establishment don't like anything, ever.

Scott_P said:

Paristonda said:

May has gone very brexit heavy in the 'outward facing' brexit related departments. The reasons for this could be:

1) Scapegoating - she wants to ensure that any brexit FUBARs don't fall on her head.
2) Compromise - she was never a europhile remainer anyway, so no ideological reason to be against brexit, so why choose that hill to die on? Give the Bastards their Brexit and she may be able to crack on with what she really cares about without too much pushback.
3) Backsliding - A brexiteer can go for EU-lite in a way that a Remainer couldn't.

Theory running on Twitter it gives her cover for a "Norway" deal in short order

I'm hoping that's the case, and had thought something like that would be most likely before today, wondering more and more if it may be option 2 though.

Alanbrooke said:

Jobabob said:

Presumably Theresa has some sort of radical plan to house the three foreign affairs departments offshore, perhaps somewhere in the Southern Ocean, connected only by CB radio

Crossmaglen

ReggieCide said:

HurstLlama said:

ydoethur said:

HurstLlama said:

ydoethur said:

oxfordsimon said:

ydoethur said:

I am willing to forgive May everything so far - including BloJo (sic) - if she sacks Morgan and replaces her with absolutely anyone who is sane, intelligent and will hammer the useless berks at DfES and OFSTED.

That would make up for a lot, but I have a horrible feeling Morgan will survive even though she was appointed for gender tokenism reasons to start with.

I am hearing that Greening is heading to a new beefed-up Education department (that will take back control of universities etc from the now defunct BIS)

Yes! Yes! Please! I'll take it...

Come on, Doctor, you are only saying that because Greening has shown herself to be an empty airhead who is easily house trained by her CS staff. So with her at Education, all reform aimed at improving education will be, effectively, abandoned inside six months and producer interests will again prevail.

No, I'm saying that because Morgan is a thoroughly unpleasant woman who was pushing everything because she was told by the poisonous cretins around her that it would help her career.

Greening will be useless. She will achieve nothing. And that means there will be no direction and no new initiatives. We can have a few years of peace and quiet to get on with teaching.

I'd prefer someone good, who would sack every civil servant, abolish both the ministry and the quangos, and then vanish without trace leaving parents to make choices rather than failed hereditary technocrats like Chris Wormald. But amiable incompetence is a decent second best after Gove and Morgan.

Good post, Doc, and one which put me back in my box.

One thought though, if we are to abolish the Ministry and the Quangos, doesn't that entail making every school an independent school, albeit with a level of state funding per pupil? Sounds a grand idea to me but I don't think many of the educational establishment would like it.

IIRC the educational establishment don't like anything, ever.

They do. They love more money and they love being indulged and not challenged.

Education is in a mess because of the refusal of the educational establishment to change.

MarkHopkins said:

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/753323583456370689

No - #Priti4Leader surely!

Scott_P said:

Paristonda said:

May has gone very brexit heavy in the 'outward facing' brexit related departments. The reasons for this could be:

1) Scapegoating - she wants to ensure that any brexit FUBARs don't fall on her head.
2) Compromise - she was never a europhile remainer anyway, so no ideological reason to be against brexit, so why choose that hill to die on? Give the Bastards their Brexit and she may be able to crack on with what she really cares about without too much pushback.
3) Backsliding - A brexiteer can go for EU-lite in a way that a Remainer couldn't.

Theory running on Twitter it gives her cover for a "Norway" deal in short order

David Davis seems to favour 100% Brexit though?

I'd be OK with Norway personally, but having David Davis in this role makes me think we're going go full Brexit?

Alanbrooke said:

Jonathan said:

nunu said:

It seems after Brexit the only one receiving a punishment is Osborne! And well deserved.

King over the water when this inevitably goes tits up.

Like david miliband

chortle

kings over the water die lonely frustrated deaths and never become king

Except Charles II

Dromedary said:

When was the last time a Foreign Secretary was appointed who had no experience in government, in shadowing a government position, or in overseas affairs?..........

and these Foreign Secys were so wonderful exactly when? Over recent decades the FO has gone down and down as it pushed its europhile line and is a shadow of its former position as a great department.

GIN1138 said:

Scott_P said:

Paristonda said:

May has gone very brexit heavy in the 'outward facing' brexit related departments. The reasons for this could be:

1) Scapegoating - she wants to ensure that any brexit FUBARs don't fall on her head.
2) Compromise - she was never a europhile remainer anyway, so no ideological reason to be against brexit, so why choose that hill to die on? Give the Bastards their Brexit and she may be able to crack on with what she really cares about without too much pushback.
3) Backsliding - A brexiteer can go for EU-lite in a way that a Remainer couldn't.

Theory running on Twitter it gives her cover for a "Norway" deal in short order

David Davis seems to favour 100% Brexit though?

I'd be OK with Norway personally, but David Davis in this role makes me think we're going go full Brexit?

Yes that's what I've been thinking. Especially as he is in the twilight of his career and would have no qualms about resigning if he wasn't getting his flavour of brexit. Which says to me perhaps May is ready to give it to him.

GIN1138 said:

Scott_P said:

Paristonda said:

May has gone very brexit heavy in the 'outward facing' brexit related departments. The reasons for this could be:

1) Scapegoating - she wants to ensure that any brexit FUBARs don't fall on her head.
2) Compromise - she was never a europhile remainer anyway, so no ideological reason to be against brexit, so why choose that hill to die on? Give the Bastards their Brexit and she may be able to crack on with what she really cares about without too much pushback.
3) Backsliding - A brexiteer can go for EU-lite in a way that a Remainer couldn't.

Theory running on Twitter it gives her cover for a "Norway" deal in short order

David Davis seems to favour 100% Brexit though?

I'd be OK with Norway personally, but having David Davis in this role makes me think we're going go full Brexit?

We at the very least need Norway with bells on. We're a way bigger market to the EU than they are. Someone needs to get rid of the 'mug' sign we have stuck to our national forehead.

John_M said:

Dromedary said:

When was the last time a Foreign Secretary was appointed who had no experience in government, in shadowing a government position, or in overseas affairs?

Not 1997: Robin Cook had been shadow Foreign Secretary.
Not 1924: Ramsay MacDonald had been Leader of the Opposition, shadow PM.
Not 1919: Earl Curzon had been Viceroy of India.
Not 1900: the Marquess of Lansdowne had been Viceroy of India too.

The answer may be 150 years ago in 1866, when Lord Stanley, later the 15th Earl of Derby, was appointed Foreign Secretary under his father, the prime minister and 14th Earl of Derby. They both went to the same school as Boris Johnson.

Has Boris given up his US citizenship yet?

Boris is still a Yank. He'll do an absolutely fantastic job until he utterly fucks it up. He won't go out with a whimper. Just hope he doesn't go out with a war.

He can always tell Obama that he is a better qualified person to be Pres than Obama..........
(a joke)

Sean_F said:

Jobabob said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Anyway, I have to leave you all, has been a very depressing day today, a lot of people I've gotten to know, like, and admire have lost their jobs today, and I'm in a right grumpy mood because of it and no amount of winnings compensates for that.

My sympathies. Bring back Dave and Ozzy. All is forgiven.

I'm puzzled that anyone could lament George Osborne.

You didn't back him for £100 at 7-4 !

@BethRigby: Gossip in Westminster is that May is abolishing/carving up departments. talk bis dept to be scrapped (Fox now trade, so do you need it?)

DaveDave said:

ydoethur said:

HurstLlama said:

ydoethur said:

oxfordsimon said:

ydoethur said:

I am willing to forgive May everything so far - including BloJo (sic) - if she sacks Morgan and replaces her with absolutely anyone who is sane, intelligent and will hammer the useless berks at DfES and OFSTED.

That would make up for a lot, but I have a horrible feeling Morgan will survive even though she was appointed for gender tokenism reasons to start with.

I am hearing that Greening is heading to a new beefed-up Education department (that will take back control of universities etc from the now defunct BIS)

Yes! Yes! Please! I'll take it...

Come on, Doctor, you are only saying that because Greening has shown herself to be an empty airhead who is easily house trained by her CS staff. So with her at Education, all reform aimed at improving education will be, effectively, abandoned inside six months and producer interests will again prevail.

No, I'm saying that because Morgan is a thoroughly unpleasant woman who was pushing everything because she was told by the poisonous cretins around her that it would help her career.

Greening will be useless. She will achieve nothing. And that means there will be no direction and no new initiatives. We can have a few years of peace and quiet to get on with teaching.

I'd prefer someone good, who would sack every civil servant, abolish both the ministry and the quangos, and then vanish without trace leaving parents to make choices rather than failed hereditary technocrats like Chris Wormald. But amiable incompetence is a decent second best after Gove and Morgan.

I've spent quite a bit of time with Justine Greening in the last year. She's modest, hard working, intelligent, well loved and a great listener. I think as Transport Sec she didn't do well, but I think she has grown so much since. I think she is great and much better than Amber Rudd. Of course, it is all about opinions, but Justine is really solid. I would back her time and again and would be a great Home Sec.

We seem to be ODing on fishy names lately. Is there a G W Shark lurking on the backbenches?

SandyRentool said:

MarkHopkins said:

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/753323583456370689

No - #Priti4Leader surely!

5/4 on BF. But only £12 so far matched on this new market.

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Dromedary said:

When was the last time a Foreign Secretary was appointed who had no experience in government, in shadowing a government position, or in overseas affairs?..........

and these Foreign Secys were so wonderful exactly when? Over recent decades the FO has gone down and down as it pushed its europhile line and is a shadow of its former position as a great department.

The FO is a great example of regulatory capture. Europhiles to a man. Comrade Johnson should get the show trials and purges rolling forthwith.

brokenwheel said:

PeterC said:

Paristonda said:

Jobabob said:

Off topic, second referendum policy smart move by Owen Smith. I personally don't agree with idea but could be catnip to a very Europhile membership (Lab members 90% Remain) and is a trap for Corbyn (a eurosceptic). Clever.

Indeed, it's the one policy area where the PLP is closer than Corbyn to the membership!

A second referendum post Article 50 is not a 'europhile' gesture, it is not a repeat choice between Leave and Remain. It could only be about accepting or rejecting a deal to leave, a proxy for a choice between hard and soft brexit'

That is not what Owen Smith is calling for, he is calling for another In-Out once the negotiations have been done.

Of course it avoids the fact that to negotiate the Brexit deal Article 50 will have to be triggered and we'd be leaving anyway.

It is entirely a gesture to split off Corbyn's softer support.

You could be right. Personally I wonder whether Owen Smith really understands the point at all. Article 50 should be triggered within six months. It does not require a referendum or a General Election.

old_labour said:

Someone really needs to set up a Gofundme to solicit donations for grief counselling at the Guardian since the country England and Wales voted to leave the EU.

Add in the FT and the Economist. Both of whom are way to statist for publications that should be advocating liberal economics. Odd how they are so out of line with their readers. Must be the beauty of corporate subscriptions and no one cancels them.

NickPalmer said:

brokenwheel said:

PeterC said:

Paristonda said:

Jobabob said:

Off topic, second referendum policy smart move by Owen Smith. I personally don't agree with idea but could be catnip to a very Europhile membership (Lab members 90% Remain) and is a trap for Corbyn (a eurosceptic). Clever.

Indeed, it's the one policy area where the PLP is closer than Corbyn to the membership!

A second referendum post Article 50 is not a 'europhile' gesture, it is not a repeat choice between Leave and Remain. It could only be about accepting or rejecting a deal to leave, a proxy for a choice between hard and soft brexit'

That is not what Owen Smith is calling for, he is calling for another In-Out once the negotiations have been done.

Of course it avoids the fact that to negotiate the Brexit deal Article 50 will have to be triggered and we'd be leaving anyway.

It is entirely a gesture to split off Corbyn's softer support.

I think it's quite smart. He needs some issues other that not being Corbyn and there are plenty of members (possibly more among Eagle's supporters than Corbyn's) who will think it a line worth taking. It opens up the possibility of an electoral pact with the LibDems. As for the realities, if Britain were to elect a Government seeking to reverse withdrawal, I suspect the EU would cooperate despite the wording of Article 50.

Edit: I see Eagle has now endorsed the proposal (which is for a new referendum OR an election to endorse or reject the deal).

Nick. Do you see any value amongst the contenders for the Labour leadership election or is that putting you on the spot?