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The other mystery is why de Blasio has stopped those methods being used, with the crime figures already starting to tick up.AndyJS said:
New York City has successfully reduced gun violence over the last 20 years. The mystery is why the same methods haven't been applied to other cities like Chicago. For example the homicide rate in NYC is now only three times that of London, a big improvement on a few years ago.Tim_B said:
The outrage is very selective - 2 blacks killed by white cops and African Americans are protesting all over the place. Yet about Chicago where 1,800 African Americans have been shot so far this year, mainly by other African Americans, there has not even been a small squeak by those who allegedly believe that black lives matter.nunu said:
They didn't do anything after 6 year olds were killed why would they do anything now? The only way I can see them doing anything is if a toddler blonde blue eyed daughter of a right wing Congressman gets shot and is taped on camera something so shocking it would make the country sick, and even then they might not act.Lowlander said:
You have to wonder how bad the United States will let it get before it realises the Second Amendment needs repealled.AndyJS said:"Two Bailiffs Killed In US Courthouse Shooting"
http://news.sky.com/story/two-bailiffs-killed-in-us-courthouse-shooting-10499073
The BBC had an article on the prevalence of black gun clubs. I suspect that might make the difference.
If they really believe black lives matter, they should concentrate their efforts on places like Chicago. But they are really just another racist left wing pressure group.
There are clearly some bad cops out there, but this isn't the way to handle it.0 -
Good points.Philip_Thompson said:
Also consider their cost and the costs of munitions.AndyJS said:
The interesting thing is that in Victorian times anyone could buy a gun in the UK, yet there wasn't much gun violence. Maybe most people couldn't afford to buy one, and those that did exercised traditional British restraint in using them.Lowlander said:
To an American a 6yo with a live firearm is a tragedy.nunu said:
They didn't do anything after 6 year olds were killed why would they do anything now? The only way I can see them doing anything is if a toddler blonde blue eyed daughter of a right wing Congressman gets shot and is taped on camera something so shocking it would make the country sick, and even then they might not act.Lowlander said:
You have to wonder how bad the United States will let it get before it realises the Second Amendment needs repealled.AndyJS said:"Two Bailiffs Killed In US Courthouse Shooting"
http://news.sky.com/story/two-bailiffs-killed-in-us-courthouse-shooting-10499073
The BBC had an article on the prevalence of black gun clubs. I suspect that might make the difference.
A black man with a gun is a travesty.
As black people use their rights, especially in open carry states, the law will tighten to the stage that even Republicans realise the Second Amendment has to go.
When bullets cost pennies there is little reason to have restraint on the side. If bullets were $100 each we'd see a very different culture.0 -
It's one of those strange things. In Victorian Britain it was legal to own a firearm. But no-one did. I have no idea why that was the case, even the wealthy did not buy and carry pistols.AndyJS said:
The interesting thing is that in Victorian times anyone could buy a gun in the UK, yet there wasn't much gun violence. Maybe most people couldn't afford to buy one, and those that did exercised traditional British restraint in using them.Lowlander said:
To an American a 6yo with a live firearm is a tragedy.nunu said:
They didn't do anything after 6 year olds were killed why would they do anything now? The only way I can see them doing anything is if a toddler blonde blue eyed daughter of a right wing Congressman gets shot and is taped on camera something so shocking it would make the country sick, and even then they might not act.Lowlander said:
You have to wonder how bad the United States will let it get before it realises the Second Amendment needs repealled.AndyJS said:"Two Bailiffs Killed In US Courthouse Shooting"
http://news.sky.com/story/two-bailiffs-killed-in-us-courthouse-shooting-10499073
The BBC had an article on the prevalence of black gun clubs. I suspect that might make the difference.
A black man with a gun is a travesty.
As black people use their rights, especially in open carry states, the law will tighten to the stage that even Republicans realise the Second Amendment has to go.
I wonder, if it was related to the police not using firearms? In the US all law officers carried. In the UK, none did. I am fairly sure it is more complicated than that but it is still a very strange phenomenon. There were plenty of people in Victorian Britain who could afford guns. But none carried.0 -
Except Sherlock Holmes and Watson.Lowlander said:
It's one of those strange things. In Victorian Britain it was legal to own a firearm. But no-one did. I have no idea why that was the case, even the wealthy did not buy and carry pistols.AndyJS said:
The interesting thing is that in Victorian times anyone could buy a gun in the UK, yet there wasn't much gun violence. Maybe most people couldn't afford to buy one, and those that did exercised traditional British restraint in using them.Lowlander said:
To an American a 6yo with a live firearm is a tragedy.nunu said:
They didn't do anything after 6 year olds were killed why would they do anything now? The only way I can see them doing anything is if a toddler blonde blue eyed daughter of a right wing Congressman gets shot and is taped on camera something so shocking it would make the country sick, and even then they might not act.Lowlander said:
You have to wonder how bad the United States will let it get before it realises the Second Amendment needs repealled.AndyJS said:"Two Bailiffs Killed In US Courthouse Shooting"
http://news.sky.com/story/two-bailiffs-killed-in-us-courthouse-shooting-10499073
The BBC had an article on the prevalence of black gun clubs. I suspect that might make the difference.
A black man with a gun is a travesty.
As black people use their rights, especially in open carry states, the law will tighten to the stage that even Republicans realise the Second Amendment has to go.
I wonder, if it was related to the police not using firearms? In the US all law officers carried. In the UK, none did. I am fairly sure it is more complicated than that but it is still a very strange phenomenon. There were plenty of people in Victorian Britain who could afford guns. But none carried.
0 -
If you want to amend the US Constitution,
1) you need a 2/3 vote in both the House and Senate
2) 3/4 of the states need to approve it.
3) There is a time limit for this to happen. Most recently it was 7 years.
This is clearly not going to happen regarding the 2nd amendment0 -
Just a nonsense racist viewpoint you stated there.Tim_B said:
The outrage is very selective - 2 blacks killed by white cops and African Americans are protesting all over the place. Yet about Chicago where 1,800 African Americans have been shot so far this year, mainly by other African Americans, there has not even been a small squeak by those who allegedly believe that black lives matter.nunu said:
They didn't do anything after 6 year olds were killed why would they do anything now? The only way I can see them doing anything is if a toddler blonde blue eyed daughter of a right wing Congressman gets shot and is taped on camera something so shocking it would make the country sick, and even then they might not act.Lowlander said:
You have to wonder how bad the United States will let it get before it realises the Second Amendment needs repealled.AndyJS said:"Two Bailiffs Killed In US Courthouse Shooting"
http://news.sky.com/story/two-bailiffs-killed-in-us-courthouse-shooting-10499073
The BBC had an article on the prevalence of black gun clubs. I suspect that might make the difference.
If they really believe black lives matter, they should concentrate their efforts on places like Chicago. But they are really just another racist left wing pressure group.
There are clearly some bad cops out there, but this isn't the way to handle it.
If people are victims of criminal activity that is a matter for the police, not citizen. If people are victims of the police that is ABSOLUTELY a matter for citizens. A single person shot by a police officer is a matter of grave concern.
And maybe if the US didnt allow most citizens to carry firearms there wouldnt be all those deaths you worry about.0 -
Lestrade?AndyJS said:
Except Sherlock Holmes and Watson.Lowlander said:
It's one of those strange things. In Victorian Britain it was legal to own a firearm. But no-one did. I have no idea why that was the case, even the wealthy did not buy and carry pistols.AndyJS said:
The interesting thing is that in Victorian times anyone could buy a gun in the UK, yet there wasn't much gun violence. Maybe most people couldn't afford to buy one, and those that did exercised traditional British restraint in using them.Lowlander said:
To an American a 6yo with a live firearm is a tragedy.nunu said:
They didn't do anything after 6 year olds were killed why would they do anything now? The only way I can see them doing anything is if a toddler blonde blue eyed daughter of a right wing Congressman gets shot and is taped on camera something so shocking it would make the country sick, and even then they might not act.Lowlander said:
You have to wonder how bad the United States will let it get before it realises the Second Amendment needs repealled.AndyJS said:"Two Bailiffs Killed In US Courthouse Shooting"
http://news.sky.com/story/two-bailiffs-killed-in-us-courthouse-shooting-10499073
The BBC had an article on the prevalence of black gun clubs. I suspect that might make the difference.
A black man with a gun is a travesty.
As black people use their rights, especially in open carry states, the law will tighten to the stage that even Republicans realise the Second Amendment has to go.
I wonder, if it was related to the police not using firearms? In the US all law officers carried. In the UK, none did. I am fairly sure it is more complicated than that but it is still a very strange phenomenon. There were plenty of people in Victorian Britain who could afford guns. But none carried.0 -
Of course it will.Tim_B said:
Dream on - there is not a chance the 2nd amendment will be repealed, for better or worse.Lowlander said:
To an American a 6yo with a live firearm is a tragedy.nunu said:
They didn't do anything after 6 year olds were killed why would they do anything now? The only way I can see them doing anything is if a toddler blonde blue eyed daughter of a right wing Congressman gets shot and is taped on camera something so shocking it would make the country sick, and even then they might not act.Lowlander said:
You have to wonder how bad the United States will let it get before it realises the Second Amendment needs repealled.AndyJS said:"Two Bailiffs Killed In US Courthouse Shooting"
http://news.sky.com/story/two-bailiffs-killed-in-us-courthouse-shooting-10499073
The BBC had an article on the prevalence of black gun clubs. I suspect that might make the difference.
A black man with a gun is a travesty.
As black people use their rights, especially in open carry states, the law will tighten to the stage that even Republicans realise the Second Amendment has to go.
The US has a challenge, either ban black people from carrying firearms or appeal the Second Amendment. They will repeal.0 -
Bbbut I don't understand...Daniel Hannan insists that LEAVE had noting to do with immigration and in fact gets very upset if you point out that oh yes it did. Given that Daniel Hannan never ever fibs, we can safely conclude that LEAVE wasn't about immigration...Rosebetweenthorns said:Given the referendum was just won substantially on controlling immigration...
[Sorry, but I couldn't resist it]
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I thought only Watson carried an ex-service pistol. I wasn't aware Holmes ever carried.AndyJS said:
Except Sherlock Holmes and Watson.Lowlander said:
It's one of those strange things. In Victorian Britain it was legal to own a firearm. But no-one did. I have no idea why that was the case, even the wealthy did not buy and carry pistols.AndyJS said:
The interesting thing is that in Victorian times anyone could buy a gun in the UK, yet there wasn't much gun violence. Maybe most people couldn't afford to buy one, and those that did exercised traditional British restraint in using them.Lowlander said:
To an American a 6yo with a live firearm is a tragedy.nunu said:
They didn't do anything after 6 year olds were killed why would they do anything now? The only way I can see them doing anything is if a toddler blonde blue eyed daughter of a right wing Congressman gets shot and is taped on camera something so shocking it would make the country sick, and even then they might not act.Lowlander said:
You have to wonder how bad the United States will let it get before it realises the Second Amendment needs repealled.AndyJS said:"Two Bailiffs Killed In US Courthouse Shooting"
http://news.sky.com/story/two-bailiffs-killed-in-us-courthouse-shooting-10499073
The BBC had an article on the prevalence of black gun clubs. I suspect that might make the difference.
A black man with a gun is a travesty.
As black people use their rights, especially in open carry states, the law will tighten to the stage that even Republicans realise the Second Amendment has to go.
I wonder, if it was related to the police not using firearms? In the US all law officers carried. In the UK, none did. I am fairly sure it is more complicated than that but it is still a very strange phenomenon. There were plenty of people in Victorian Britain who could afford guns. But none carried.0 -
The fear of black people with guns will easily carry repeal within a few tens of years.Tim_B said:If you want to amend the US Constitution,
1) you need a 2/3 vote in both the House and Senate
2) 3/4 of the states need to approve it.
3) There is a time limit for this to happen. Most recently it was 7 years.
This is clearly not going to happen regarding the 2nd amendment0 -
You've called me a racist and said my opinion was nonsense, and have illustrated a lack of understanding of the realities of the US. If you wish to sink to those depths, and lack of knowledge and understanding of the subject at hand, then let's consider his conversation at an end. Have a good evening.Lowlander said:
Just a nonsense racist viewpoint you stated there.Tim_B said:
The outrage is very selective - 2 blacks killed by white cops and African Americans are protesting all over the place. Yet about Chicago where 1,800 African Americans have been shot so far this year, mainly by other African Americans, there has not even been a small squeak by those who allegedly believe that black lives matter.nunu said:
They didn't do anything after 6 year olds were killed why would they do anything now? The only way I can see them doing anything is if a toddler blonde blue eyed daughter of a right wing Congressman gets shot and is taped on camera something so shocking it would make the country sick, and even then they might not act.Lowlander said:
You have to wonder how bad the United States will let it get before it realises the Second Amendment needs repealled.AndyJS said:"Two Bailiffs Killed In US Courthouse Shooting"
http://news.sky.com/story/two-bailiffs-killed-in-us-courthouse-shooting-10499073
The BBC had an article on the prevalence of black gun clubs. I suspect that might make the difference.
If they really believe black lives matter, they should concentrate their efforts on places like Chicago. But they are really just another racist left wing pressure group.
There are clearly some bad cops out there, but this isn't the way to handle it.
If people are victims of criminal activity that is a matter for the police, not citizen. If people are victims of the police that is ABSOLUTELY a matter for citizens. A single person shot by a police officer is a matter of grave concern.
And maybe if the US didnt allow most citizens to carry firearms there wouldnt be all those deaths you worry about.0 -
Holmes owned a pistol which he carried occasionally. Something else you apparently know nothing about - I should start a list.Lowlander said:
I thought only Watson carried an ex-service pistol. I wasn't aware Holmes ever carried.AndyJS said:
Except Sherlock Holmes and Watson.Lowlander said:
It's one of those strange things. In Victorian Britain it was legal to own a firearm. But no-one did. I have no idea why that was the case, even the wealthy did not buy and carry pistols.AndyJS said:
The interesting thing is that in Victorian times anyone could buy a gun in the UK, yet there wasn't much gun violence. Maybe most people couldn't afford to buy one, and those that did exercised traditional British restraint in using them.Lowlander said:
To an American a 6yo with a live firearm is a tragedy.nunu said:
They didn't do anything after 6 year olds were killed why would they do anything now? The only way I can see them doing anything is if a toddler blonde blue eyed daughter of a right wing Congressman gets shot and is taped on camera something so shocking it would make the country sick, and even then they might not act.Lowlander said:
You have to wonder how bad the United States will let it get before it realises the Second Amendment needs repealled.AndyJS said:"Two Bailiffs Killed In US Courthouse Shooting"
http://news.sky.com/story/two-bailiffs-killed-in-us-courthouse-shooting-10499073
The BBC had an article on the prevalence of black gun clubs. I suspect that might make the difference.
A black man with a gun is a travesty.
As black people use their rights, especially in open carry states, the law will tighten to the stage that even Republicans realise the Second Amendment has to go.
I wonder, if it was related to the police not using firearms? In the US all law officers carried. In the UK, none did. I am fairly sure it is more complicated than that but it is still a very strange phenomenon. There were plenty of people in Victorian Britain who could afford guns. But none carried.0 -
If the PLP refer to themselves as the Parliamentary Caucus of the Labour Party, they can elect a Caucus Leader and make that person LOTO. Corbyn can remain party leader if he likes, just make that post into a figurehead.Wulfrun_Phil said:Even if in the short term a formal new party isn't created, that could still happen if the PLP does enough to convince Bercow that it is operating independently and that Corbyn is no longer the parliamentary leader. It might need to rename itself the Independent Parliamentary Labour Party.
0 -
You're showing your ignorance again. Many black people have guns - the biggest cause of death in male blacks under 25 is gun shot wound, mainly inflicted by other blacks.Lowlander said:
The fear of black people with guns will easily carry repeal within a few tens of years.Tim_B said:If you want to amend the US Constitution,
1) you need a 2/3 vote in both the House and Senate
2) 3/4 of the states need to approve it.
3) There is a time limit for this to happen. Most recently it was 7 years.
This is clearly not going to happen regarding the 2nd amendment0 -
How many were related by blood or marriage to previous incumbent PMs or Presidents?JohnLoony said:Sri Lanka 1994
Bangladesh 1996
New Zealand 1999
São Tomé & Príncipe 2005
Haiti 2008
Finland 2010
Peru 2011
Senegal 2013
Norway 2013
Poland 2014
(U.K. 2016)0 -
1,140 Americans were killed by their own security services in 2015.Tim_B said:
The outrage is very selective - 2 blacks killed by white cops and African Americans are protesting all over the place. Yet about Chicago where 1,800 African Americans have been shot so far this year, mainly by other African Americans, there has not even been a small squeak by those who allegedly believe that black lives matter.nunu said:
They didn't do anything after 6 year olds were killed why would they do anything now? The only way I can see them doing anything is if a toddler blonde blue eyed daughter of a right wing Congressman gets shot and is taped on camera something so shocking it would make the country sick, and even then they might not act.Lowlander said:
You have to wonder how bad the United States will let it get before it realises the Second Amendment needs repealled.AndyJS said:"Two Bailiffs Killed In US Courthouse Shooting"
http://news.sky.com/story/two-bailiffs-killed-in-us-courthouse-shooting-10499073
The BBC had an article on the prevalence of black gun clubs. I suspect that might make the difference.
If they really believe black lives matter, they should concentrate their efforts on places like Chicago. But they are really just another racist left wing pressure group.
There are clearly some bad cops out there, but this isn't the way to handle it.0 -
= and the racial relevance of that statistic is.........?Sunil_Prasannan said:
1,140 Americans were killed by their own security services in 2015.Tim_B said:
The outrage is very selective - 2 blacks killed by white cops and African Americans are protesting all over the place. Yet about Chicago where 1,800 African Americans have been shot so far this year, mainly by other African Americans, there has not even been a small squeak by those who allegedly believe that black lives matter.nunu said:
They didn't do anything after 6 year olds were killed why would they do anything now? The only way I can see them doing anything is if a toddler blonde blue eyed daughter of a right wing Congressman gets shot and is taped on camera something so shocking it would make the country sick, and even then they might not act.Lowlander said:
You have to wonder how bad the United States will let it get before it realises the Second Amendment needs repealled.AndyJS said:"Two Bailiffs Killed In US Courthouse Shooting"
http://news.sky.com/story/two-bailiffs-killed-in-us-courthouse-shooting-10499073
The BBC had an article on the prevalence of black gun clubs. I suspect that might make the difference.
If they really believe black lives matter, they should concentrate their efforts on places like Chicago. But they are really just another racist left wing pressure group.
There are clearly some bad cops out there, but this isn't the way to handle it.0 -
If you don't want to stand by your argument, so be it.Tim_B said:
You've called me a racist and said my opinion was nonsense, and have illustrated a lack of understanding of the realities of the US. If you wish to sink to those depths, and lack of knowledge and understanding of the subject at hand, then let's consider his conversation at an end. Have a good evening.
But it was YOUR argument. You claim that 1800 deaths in chicago from, by your claim, black on black violence, ameliorate the murder of innocent people by police officers is acceptable is racist. Its the type of nonsense you get on Fox News.
There is no reason, absolutely none, for most people in a modern democracy to own a gun. The escalation of gun violence is entirely related to this. Even in the example countries used by the murder lobby like Switzerland there are strict controls over gun ownership.
The US encourages gun ownership, makes gun ownership widespread and make gun ownership a political statement.
Currently that is fine. Because the political statements are being made by white Americans. That is changing and black Americans are realising they have the right to carry too. That will end the Second Amendment sooner than any lobby ever could. Americans are petrified of their black citizens.0 -
Challenging the gun culture within the young black community will be very difficult. Until that happens, black-on-black deaths will continue to increase year on year.Tim_B said:
You're showing your ignorance again. Many black people have guns - the biggest cause of death in male blacks under 25 is gun shot wound, mainly inflicted by other blacks.Lowlander said:
The fear of black people with guns will easily carry repeal within a few tens of years.Tim_B said:If you want to amend the US Constitution,
1) you need a 2/3 vote in both the House and Senate
2) 3/4 of the states need to approve it.
3) There is a time limit for this to happen. Most recently it was 7 years.
This is clearly not going to happen regarding the 2nd amendment0 -
Apparently racist Tim doesn't see this as a problem as of the 100,000 plus non security service gun murders in America, 1800 were dead black people in Chicago.Sunil_Prasannan said:
1,140 Americans were killed by their own security services in 2015.Tim_B said:
The outrage is very selective - 2 blacks killed by white cops and African Americans are protesting all over the place. Yet about Chicago where 1,800 African Americans have been shot so far this year, mainly by other African Americans, there has not even been a small squeak by those who allegedly believe that black lives matter.nunu said:
They didn't do anything after 6 year olds were killed why would they do anything now? The only way I can see them doing anything is if a toddler blonde blue eyed daughter of a right wing Congressman gets shot and is taped on camera something so shocking it would make the country sick, and even then they might not act.Lowlander said:
You have to wonder how bad the United States will let it get before it realises the Second Amendment needs repealled.AndyJS said:"Two Bailiffs Killed In US Courthouse Shooting"
http://news.sky.com/story/two-bailiffs-killed-in-us-courthouse-shooting-10499073
The BBC had an article on the prevalence of black gun clubs. I suspect that might make the difference.
If they really believe black lives matter, they should concentrate their efforts on places like Chicago. But they are really just another racist left wing pressure group.
There are clearly some bad cops out there, but this isn't the way to handle it.0 -
The Tories are so ruthless. It's incredible to think that within a week they are going to look rock solid with a formidable leader at the helm.
It's also hilarious that Labour and the LibDems are asking for an election: they would be annihilated right now.
Sometimes in politics you just have to take a step back and go 'wow.'0 -
Alternatively, local laws, equivalent to "Stand Your Ground", will become more prevalent and and , of course, loose.Lowlander said:
The fear of black people with guns will easily carry repeal within a few tens of years.Tim_B said:If you want to amend the US Constitution,
1) you need a 2/3 vote in both the House and Senate
2) 3/4 of the states need to approve it.
3) There is a time limit for this to happen. Most recently it was 7 years.
This is clearly not going to happen regarding the 2nd amendment
I wonder which will prove the course of least resistance: changing the US Constitution or sanctioning the mowing down of 'offenders'. Just asking..0 -
Stop calling me a racist - I am manifestly not one. I also never said I didn't see that as a problem, so stop putting words in my mouth also. The 1800 dead blacks in Chicago were mainly shot by other blacks.Lowlander said:
Apparently racist Tim doesn't see this as a problem as of the 100,000 plus non security service gun murders in America, 1800 were dead black people in Chicago.Sunil_Prasannan said:
1,140 Americans were killed by their own security services in 2015.Tim_B said:
The outrage is very selective - 2 blacks killed by white cops and African Americans are protesting all over the place. Yet about Chicago where 1,800 African Americans have been shot so far this year, mainly by other African Americans, there has not even been a small squeak by those who allegedly believe that black lives matter.nunu said:
They didn't do anything after 6 year olds were killed why would they do anything now? The only way I can see them doing anything is if a toddler blonde blue eyed daughter of a right wing Congressman gets shot and is taped on camera something so shocking it would make the country sick, and even then they might not act.Lowlander said:
You have to wonder how bad the United States will let it get before it realises the Second Amendment needs repealled.AndyJS said:"Two Bailiffs Killed In US Courthouse Shooting"
http://news.sky.com/story/two-bailiffs-killed-in-us-courthouse-shooting-10499073
The BBC had an article on the prevalence of black gun clubs. I suspect that might make the difference.
If they really believe black lives matter, they should concentrate their efforts on places like Chicago. But they are really just another racist left wing pressure group.
There are clearly some bad cops out there, but this isn't the way to handle it.
I live in a city in the southern US which is majority black.0 -
Try running the Labour Party when the members have expressed a clear preference for somebody else....prh47bridge said:
The rules definitely don't allow for write in candidates. If Corbyn is not on the ballot paper he can't win even if the overwhelming majority of voters write in for him.MarqueeMark said:
They will write in for Corbyn on the ballot paper. It will be clear he has won a landslide....david_herdson said:
What do you think they would do if the NEC did rule to require Corbyn to garner nominations, and the courts upheld that decision?bigjohnowls said:
Dream on.Jobabob said:
The NEC needs to apply the necessary medicine tomorrow. It will be easier to overcome the fallout from that than Corbyn automatically making the ballot in the face of an precedented PLP rebellion.DaveDave said:Labour may be seen as a rabble but if Tories argue like Ferrets then they will be ok. I just can't see a split party. Everyone knows that the election is lost if a split.
Labour members and the unions would just not accept such an undemocratic move
Were it not for the expectation that the courts would rule the other way - i.e. in Corbyn's favour - it would make a great deal of sense to keep him off the ballot precisely in order to rid the party of the infiltrators and nutcases.0 -
So it's OK for the security services to kill over a thousand Americans annually?Tim_B said:
= and the racial relevance of that statistic is.........?Sunil_Prasannan said:
1,140 Americans were killed by their own security services in 2015.Tim_B said:
The outrage is very selective - 2 blacks killed by white cops and African Americans are protesting all over the place. Yet about Chicago where 1,800 African Americans have been shot so far this year, mainly by other African Americans, there has not even been a small squeak by those who allegedly believe that black lives matter.nunu said:
They didn't do anything after 6 year olds were killed why would they do anything now? The only way I can see them doing anything is if a toddler blonde blue eyed daughter of a right wing Congressman gets shot and is taped on camera something so shocking it would make the country sick, and even then they might not act.Lowlander said:
You have to wonder how bad the United States will let it get before it realises the Second Amendment needs repealled.AndyJS said:"Two Bailiffs Killed In US Courthouse Shooting"
http://news.sky.com/story/two-bailiffs-killed-in-us-courthouse-shooting-10499073
The BBC had an article on the prevalence of black gun clubs. I suspect that might make the difference.
If they really believe black lives matter, they should concentrate their efforts on places like Chicago. But they are really just another racist left wing pressure group.
There are clearly some bad cops out there, but this isn't the way to handle it.0 -
You're falling into his racist trap.oxfordsimon said:
Challenging the gun culture within the young black community will be very difficult. Until that happens, black-on-black deaths will continue to increase year on year.Tim_B said:
You're showing your ignorance again. Many black people have guns - the biggest cause of death in male blacks under 25 is gun shot wound, mainly inflicted by other blacks.Lowlander said:
The fear of black people with guns will easily carry repeal within a few tens of years.Tim_B said:If you want to amend the US Constitution,
1) you need a 2/3 vote in both the House and Senate
2) 3/4 of the states need to approve it.
3) There is a time limit for this to happen. Most recently it was 7 years.
This is clearly not going to happen regarding the 2nd amendment
Deaths will continue till the Second Amendment is repealled. It has nothing to do with race, it is inate to the gun culture. Remove the guns, end the culture. End the deaths.0 -
You made a racist argument in favour of gun freedom.Tim_B said:
Stop calling me a racist - I am manifestly not one. I also never said I didn't see that as a problem, so stop putting words in my mouth also.Lowlander said:
Apparently racist Tim doesn't see this as a problem as of the 100,000 plus non security service gun murders in America, 1800 were dead black people in Chicago.Sunil_Prasannan said:
1,140 Americans were killed by their own security services in 2015.Tim_B said:
The outrage is very selective - 2 blacks killed by white cops and African Americans are protesting all over the place. Yet about Chicago where 1,800 African Americans have been shot so far this year, mainly by other African Americans, there has not even been a small squeak by those who allegedly believe that black lives matter.nunu said:
They didn't do anything after 6 year olds were killed why would they do anything now? The only way I can see them doing anything is if a toddler blonde blue eyed daughter of a right wing Congressman gets shot and is taped on camera something so shocking it would make the country sick, and even then they might not act.Lowlander said:
You have to wonder how bad the United States will let it get before it realises the Second Amendment needs repealled.AndyJS said:"Two Bailiffs Killed In US Courthouse Shooting"
http://news.sky.com/story/two-bailiffs-killed-in-us-courthouse-shooting-10499073
The BBC had an article on the prevalence of black gun clubs. I suspect that might make the difference.
If they really believe black lives matter, they should concentrate their efforts on places like Chicago. But they are really just another racist left wing pressure group.
There are clearly some bad cops out there, but this isn't the way to handle it.
No-one forced you to make the claim that everyone should get a gun cos 1800 black Americans died in Chicago. You made the argument of your own free will.0 -
If Stand Your Ground becomes looser it is effectively mobilising free Militia forces in neighbourhoods. At some point that will mean black Militias. At that point the reaction (as it always would be) becomes racist and urgent and gun freedom ends or racial laws are implemented.shiney2 said:
Alternatively, local laws, equivalent to "Stand Your Ground", will become more prevalent and and , of course, loose.Lowlander said:
The fear of black people with guns will easily carry repeal within a few tens of years.Tim_B said:If you want to amend the US Constitution,
1) you need a 2/3 vote in both the House and Senate
2) 3/4 of the states need to approve it.
3) There is a time limit for this to happen. Most recently it was 7 years.
This is clearly not going to happen regarding the 2nd amendment
I wonder which will prove the course of least resistance: changing the US Constitution or sanctioning the mowing down of 'offenders'. Just asking..0 -
I did NOT claim that everyone should get a gun. You are putting words in my mouth again.Lowlander said:
You made a racist argument in favour of gun freedom.Tim_B said:
Stop calling me a racist - I am manifestly not one. I also never said I didn't see that as a problem, so stop putting words in my mouth also.Lowlander said:
Apparently racist Tim doesn't see this as a problem as of the 100,000 plus non security service gun murders in America, 1800 were dead black people in Chicago.Sunil_Prasannan said:
1,140 Americans were killed by their own security services in 2015.Tim_B said:
The outrage is very selective - 2 blacks killed by white cops and African Americans are protesting all over the place. Yet about Chicago where 1,800 African Americans have been shot so far this year, mainly by other African Americans, there has not even been a small squeak by those who allegedly believe that black lives matter.nunu said:
They didn't do anything after 6 year olds were killed why would they do anything now? The only way I can see them doing anything is if a toddler blonde blue eyed daughter of a right wing Congressman gets shot and is taped on camera something so shocking it would make the country sick, and even then they might not act.Lowlander said:
You have to wonder how bad the United States will let it get before it realises the Second Amendment needs repealled.AndyJS said:"Two Bailiffs Killed In US Courthouse Shooting"
http://news.sky.com/story/two-bailiffs-killed-in-us-courthouse-shooting-10499073
The BBC had an article on the prevalence of black gun clubs. I suspect that might make the difference.
If they really believe black lives matter, they should concentrate their efforts on places like Chicago. But they are really just another racist left wing pressure group.
There are clearly some bad cops out there, but this isn't the way to handle it.
No-one forced you to make the claim that everyone should get a gun cos 1800 black Americans died in Chicago. You made the argument of your own free will.
Goodnight0 -
We have bailiffs in the UK but I don't think they usually go anywhere near a courtroom. Their job is to confiscate goods and money from people's homes.0
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Peter Hitchens always says that the Tories care about office above all else.JennyFreeman said:The Tories are so ruthless. It's incredible to think that within a week they are going to look rock solid with a formidable leader at the helm.
It's also hilarious that Labour and the LibDems are asking for an election: they would be annihilated right now.
Sometimes in politics you just have to take a step back and go 'wow.'0 -
Of course, yes.Tim_B said:
Lestrade?AndyJS said:
Except Sherlock Holmes and Watson.Lowlander said:
It's one of those strange things. In Victorian Britain it was legal to own a firearm. But no-one did. I have no idea why that was the case, even the wealthy did not buy and carry pistols.AndyJS said:
The interesting thing is that in Victorian times anyone could buy a gun in the UK, yet there wasn't much gun violence. Maybe most people couldn't afford to buy one, and those that did exercised traditional British restraint in using them.Lowlander said:
To an American a 6yo with a live firearm is a tragedy.nunu said:
They didn't do anything after 6 year olds were killed why would they do anything now? The only way I can see them doing anything is if a toddler blonde blue eyed daughter of a right wing Congressman gets shot and is taped on camera something so shocking it would make the country sick, and even then they might not act.Lowlander said:
You have to wonder how bad the United States will let it get before it realises the Second Amendment needs repealled.AndyJS said:"Two Bailiffs Killed In US Courthouse Shooting"
http://news.sky.com/story/two-bailiffs-killed-in-us-courthouse-shooting-10499073
The BBC had an article on the prevalence of black gun clubs. I suspect that might make the difference.
A black man with a gun is a travesty.
As black people use their rights, especially in open carry states, the law will tighten to the stage that even Republicans realise the Second Amendment has to go.
I wonder, if it was related to the police not using firearms? In the US all law officers carried. In the UK, none did. I am fairly sure it is more complicated than that but it is still a very strange phenomenon. There were plenty of people in Victorian Britain who could afford guns. But none carried.0 -
er, so what.Lowlander said:
At that point the reaction (as it always would be) becomes racist and urgent and gun freedom ends or racial laws are implemented.shiney2 said:
Alternatively, local laws, equivalent to "Stand Your Ground", will become more prevalent and and , of course, loose.Lowlander said:
The fear of black people with guns will easily carry repeal within a few tens of years.Tim_B said:If you want to amend the US Constitution,
1) you need a 2/3 vote in both the House and Senate
2) 3/4 of the states need to approve it.
3) There is a time limit for this to happen. Most recently it was 7 years.
This is clearly not going to happen regarding the 2nd amendment
I wonder which will prove the course of least resistance: changing the US Constitution or sanctioning the mowing down of 'offenders'. Just asking..
People will defend their lives within the law, and US law allows some considerable latitude.
0 -
doesn't that mean that the amended constitution is working as intended?Lowlander said:
If Stand Your Ground becomes looser it is effectively mobilising free Militia forces in neighbourhoods. At some point that will mean black Militias. .0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFSfGHFH1J8
This video contains a lot of stuff that backs up what I have been reading about the BLM movement. It is very much part of the problem and not the solution. Pandering to it will only make things worse.0 -
and the solution is?oxfordsimon said:
This video contains a lot of stuff that backs up what I have been reading about the BLM movement. It is very much part of the problem and not the solution. Pandering to it will only make things worse.0 -
the US is really getting into some freaky territory
""We saw no other option but to use our bomb robot and place a device on its extension for it to detonate where the subject was," Dallas Police Chief David Brown said at a news conference Friday morning. "Other options would have exposed our officers to grave danger.""
"no other option"?0 -
I know part of the solution involves being open and honest about these issues. There is a lot of misinformation coming from BLM which is creating a narrative that does not reflect the facts. Unless all sides are honest, the tensions will not decrease.dugarbandier said:
and the solution is?oxfordsimon said:
This video contains a lot of stuff that backs up what I have been reading about the BLM movement. It is very much part of the problem and not the solution. Pandering to it will only make things worse.
But I think it is very clear that BLM is the home for some very nasty thinking and is inspired by a known murderer/terrorist. That is not a group that should be given any place at the table. Calling for the murder of police officers as they have done renders them ineligible as far as I am concerned. They are exploiting racial tensions for political ends - not seeking solutions.0 -
It's not as if they had Gazza on hand with a fishing rod and a fried chicken.dugarbandier said:
"no other option"?0 -
Hope for Labour?
Do you think Jeremy Corbyn should or should not continue as leader of the Labour Party and fight the next General Election? (should/should not):
Unite: 35/58
Unison: 29/58
GMB: 34/60
CWU: 30/62
USDAW: 27/61
This polling may go some way towards explaining the choice of Eagle as a challenger. She’s always been pro-union, and this base which appears to be anti-Corbyn may be where his opposition hope to recruit members.0 -
Looking back at the 2015 result, I am not sure that the Union votes would be enough to make much of a difference. Particularly with the work that Momentum has been doing for the past 2 weeks (and more) to shore up their beloved Leader.nunu said:Hope for Labour?
Do you think Jeremy Corbyn should or should not continue as leader of the Labour Party and fight the next General Election? (should/should not):
Unite: 35/58
Unison: 29/58
GMB: 34/60
CWU: 30/62
USDAW: 27/61
This polling may go some way towards explaining the choice of Eagle as a challenger. She’s always been pro-union, and this base which appears to be anti-Corbyn may be where his opposition hope to recruit members.0 -
They seem to be suffering a lack of imagination.williamglenn said:
It's not as if they had Gazza on hand with a fishing rod and a fried chicken.dugarbandier said:
"no other option"?
"No other option" than to execute/assassinate? They didn't bother to try incapacitation? Or just waiting?
Sadly Gazza seems only to be in possession of gin and cigarettes at this point. (Is it not possible to section someone in his situation? Is the only option for him just to photograph him buying booze until he finally dies from it?)0 -
The whole bomb robot seems very disturbing.dugarbandier said:the US is really getting into some freaky territory
""We saw no other option but to use our bomb robot and place a device on its extension for it to detonate where the subject was," Dallas Police Chief David Brown said at a news conference Friday morning. "Other options would have exposed our officers to grave danger.""
"no other option"?
Have they released the full conversation, a robot will have a camera and mic. It seems very disturbing they couldn't just spray out some pepper spray or some knock out gas.
It sounds like state sponsored murder.0 -
One could argue that there would be no table and no dialogue unless they made the noise.oxfordsimon said:That is not a group that should be given any place at the table.
Anyway, I'm no expert. Maybe you have more experience in these matter. As it is, tiem for work. Cheers0 -
Gazza has apparently moved beyond the chicken and rod stage.williamglenn said:
It's not as if they had Gazza on hand with a fishing rod and a fried chicken.dugarbandier said:
"no other option"?
He's... it's actually terrible the way it is being reported. The papers are basically trying to thrive off mental illness now.0 -
"POLICE STATE SECTIONS BRAVE GAZZA" in all papers.dugarbandier said:
They seem to be suffering a lack of imagination.williamglenn said:
It's not as if they had Gazza on hand with a fishing rod and a fried chicken.dugarbandier said:
"no other option"?
"No other option" than to execute/assassinate? They didn't bother to try incapacitation? Or just waiting?
Sadly Gazza seems only to be in possession of gin and cigarettes at this point. (Is it not possible to section someone in his situation? Is the only option for him just to photograph him buying booze until he finally dies from it?)
Papers sell terrible things. They want terrible things to happen.0
This discussion has been closed.