politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Where Eagle dares after Tom Watson’s Union discussions fail
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Dan Hodges is certainly the right journalist for a post-truth politics.rottenborough said:Truly we have arrived at post-truth:
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges 9m9 minutes ago
So now Leadsom supporters are circulating a fake tweet pretending The Times has apologised for its article.0 -
A fudge is the best and most realistic way to keep everyone content. Not satisfied, but content.rottenborough said:SeanT said:
I'm going to make a bold and absurd prediction.williamglenn said:
And with Barrosso taking a job at Goldman Sachs in London, no doubt the Commission will get the inside track on how the City is viewing things.SeanT said:As some of us predicted on here, the EU nation states are already "informally" talking to the UK about Brexit
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/philip-hammond-eu-leaders-happy-to-hold-informal-brexit-talks
It's realpolitik. The EU Commission can say what it likes, but in the end if Paris, Rome and Berlin want to talk to London - and clearly they do - then that is what will happen.
May will win. She will swiftly move to a kind of EEA+ situation. The UK will retain full access to the Single Market. We will agree to pay a very hefty contribution - probably more than Norway per capita - but a few million less than we do now; in return we will get qualified free movement: only people with job offers can move to the UK, and we have an emergency brake.
Everyone will be half satisfied, but no more than that. We will be still be closely linked to the EU, pacifying the REMAINIANS. We will be out of CAP, CFP, much of the acquis, pacifying the sovereigntists. Immigration will come down and we will have much more migration control (but not total), pacifying the migration-worriers. The City will survive.
It will be a fudge. But one that most of the country will tolerate, perhaps relieved that Doomsday has been averted.
The British are very good at fudges. All sounds doable to me.0 -
How about the "Social Justice Warrior Party"?0
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What is with it with people latching onto this non-entities and then proclaiming them pretty much the new messiah who must be saved and defended at all costs.
Is it that they can project anything they like onto them as they have no projection back?0 -
Not sure purple would work though.SouthamObserver said:0 -
His deal had to be put to us proles though. A Brexit deal doesn't. Some are saying they think it should, but it is not obilgatory.williamglenn said:
Wouldn't it smack of the same type of con as Cameron's 'the proles will believe anything' renegotiation?SeanT said:It's a compromise, but it will be in the interests of all to compromise. Both sides will be able to say they got a good deal. May could say "look we're liberated from the EU without doing too much damage", the EU could say "look the idiot Brits have no more influence on decision making but they're still having to pay"
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Perfect!rottenborough said:Truly we have arrived at post-truth:
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges 9m9 minutes ago
So now Leadsom supporters are circulating a fake tweet pretending The Times has apologised for its article.
So now we can look forward to a fake tweet from Barclays Bank confirming that Leadsom ran its UK banking operations, a fake tweet from Companies House confirming that they got it wrong and that she was the managing director of her brother-in-law's hedge fund, a fake tweet from the Queen endorsing her candidature, a fake tweet from Theresa May withdrawing from the contest, and so on?0 -
The trouble is none of us are going to be happy are we? May will have to do the calculus of the greatest good of the greatest number. It's very hard to discern the true motive behind either a Remain or Leave vote.williamglenn said:
Wouldn't it smack of the same type of con as Cameron's 'the proles will believe anything' renegotiation?SeanT said:It's a compromise, but it will be in the interests of all to compromise. Both sides will be able to say they got a good deal. May could say "look we're liberated from the EU without doing too much damage", the EU could say "look the idiot Brits have no more influence on decision making but they're still having to pay"
I'm not convinced that we can get away with vanilla EEA without social unrest. The UK has made immigration control a red line. I guess it depends on how callous we are. The DNVers can be ignored now. They had their say. I hasten to add that this is not my position. But some people clearly think this is the case.
Of course, the economic slowdown might offer a figleaf for the PM, but I'm not convinced on that either.0 -
Hmm I shop alot at the Co-op. Bit more expensive than Morrisons or Aldi, but a nice service and friendly staff - always a till free.SouthamObserver said:0 -
Not at all. The Coalition did not have a mandate, even an implied one, to just up and change the voting system. If it was in the manifestos of whoever one (and if in coalition both sides had it in their manifestos) they could justifiably do it.oxfordsimon said:
Having rejected one electoral reform package, it would be unthinkable to attempt another change without mass support through a referendum.PClipp said:
No more referendums, Mr Observer. They should all put STV in the manifesto, and implement it immediately, as an election commitment. Job done.SouthamObserver said:
An informal one. Not standing candidates in each other's strong areas would be a good idea. If the Tories lose their overall majority a change to PR could be put to a referendum. Only the Tories would oppose. That would change everything. But it's going to take time.EPG said:
The argument for a pact between LDs and, erm, New Labour is strong.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, it would take a long time to get the Tories out but we are where we are. The next few years are going to be tough. The LDs must fancy some kind of comeback in their old heartlands. The two Labour parties will slug it out in the Labour areas in England and Wales and one side will end up winning. Then there'll be the chance to take on the Tories. But we're talking at least 10-15 years.SeanT said:But if the PLP don't unite with the Lib Dems (and I do see the difficulties), that means there would be four parties on the centre left and left (Greens, Old Labour, Co-op Labour, LDs) - more if you count the Nats and Plaid.
Fragmentation like that, combined with FPTP, would be a recipe for permanent government by the Right.0 -
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It's maybe not the brightest idea for a small group of fanatics to think they can misrepresent what a national newspaper is saying by circulating fake tweets. So maybe Andrea thought of it herself?williamglenn said:
But will they get rumbelowed?ToryJim said:
They are completely radio rentalrottenborough said:Truly we have arrived at post-truth:
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges 9m9 minutes ago
So now Leadsom supporters are circulating a fake tweet pretending The Times has apologised for its article.0 -
Looking forward to it. I get the feeling we may have barely scratched the surface with respect to her made-up financial jobs and whacko views on life.Sunil_Prasannan said:0 -
This would be good fudge though. We have far more control than now which is zero.kle4 said:
A fudge is the best and most realistic way to keep everyone content. Not satisfied, but content.rottenborough said:SeanT said:
I'm going to make a bold and absurd prediction.williamglenn said:
And with Barrosso taking a job at Goldman Sachs in London, no doubt the Commission will get the inside track on how the City is viewing things.SeanT said:As some of us predicted on here, the EU nation states are already "informally" talking to the UK about Brexit
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/philip-hammond-eu-leaders-happy-to-hold-informal-brexit-talks
It's realpolitik. The EU Commission can say what it likes, but in the end if Paris, Rome and Berlin want to talk to London - and clearly they do - then that is what will happen.
May will win. She will swiftly move to a kind of EEA+ situation. The UK will retain full access to the Single Market. We will agree to pay a very hefty contribution - probably more than Norway per capita - but a few million less than we do now; in return we will get qualified free movement: only people with job offers can move to the UK, and we have an emergency brake.
Everyone will be half satisfied, but no more than that. We will be still be closely linked to the EU, pacifying the REMAINIANS. We will be out of CAP, CFP, much of the acquis, pacifying the sovereigntists. Immigration will come down and we will have much more migration control (but not total), pacifying the migration-worriers. The City will survive.
It will be a fudge. But one that most of the country will tolerate, perhaps relieved that Doomsday has been averted.
The British are very good at fudges. All sounds doable to me.0 -
Andrea Leadsom evenrottenborough said:
Looking forward to it. I get the feeling we may have barely scratched the surface with respect to her made-up financial jobs and whacko views on life.Sunil_Prasannan said:
(original post corrected)0 -
It was of course inevitable after this morning's article, wasn't it?!Jobabob said:
Eagle is a stalking horsekle4 said:About time!
On both.
Eagle is probably doomed, but at least someone is making the attempt - after the no confidence vote, to not even attempt to remove Corbyn if he won't go voluntarily would be gutless. Understandable, given it is expected he would win a contest if he doesn't stand aside of his own accord, but still gutless.
Great reverse psychology by @david_herdson
That said, the near-fortnight long delay hasn't done her or the anti-Corbyn campaign any favours. They're now launching the challenge - assuming that they do - against a backdrop where Corbyn is speaking on a relavant issue where he was right and where she was wrong; Corbyn has proven himself willing to stand up for himself and for his beliefs and his opponents have looked either fractious or timid (being generous, you could argue that they were seeking to give Corbyn an honourable way out but while that might have been a legitimate argument for delaying 12 hours, that same case doesn't stretch to 12 days).
Problem is, what is the plan for if - when - she loses?0 -
A newspaper sues for defamation!! Oh that would be a jolly hoot. And damages from the individuals concerned could be massive (corporate reputation and all that).Chris said:
It's maybe not the brightest idea for a small group of fanatics to think they can misrepresent what a national newspaper is saying by circulating fake tweets. So maybe Andrea thought of it herself?williamglenn said:
But will they get rumbelowed?ToryJim said:
They are completely radio rentalrottenborough said:Truly we have arrived at post-truth:
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges 9m9 minutes ago
So now Leadsom supporters are circulating a fake tweet pretending The Times has apologised for its article.
And wait, who owns the Times? Someone with very deep pockets.
Bring it on. Bring it on.0 -
I always feel slightly guilty when I have to pick up a few bits from the co-op. You never know to which sinister causes your money might be headed...SouthamObserver said:0 -
Yep. And I was asked by one of the negotiators my opinion on a matter the other day as part of the prelims. Of course, the Commission don't like it but the movers And shakers are all planning post-Juncker.SeanT said:As some of us predicted on here, the EU nation states are already "informally" talking to the UK about Brexit
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/philip-hammond-eu-leaders-happy-to-hold-informal-brexit-talks
It's realpolitik. The EU Commission can say what it likes, but in the end if Paris, Rome and Berlin want to talk to London - and clearly they do - then that is what will happen.0 -
@alexmassie: Beginning to suspect the Leadsom Truthers must be a black-ops stunt played by Theresa May. False flags everywhere, you know. Be vigilant.0
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Do they even have a plan for if she wins?david_herdson said:
It was of course inevitable after this morning's article, wasn't it?!Jobabob said:
Eagle is a stalking horsekle4 said:About time!
On both.
Eagle is probably doomed, but at least someone is making the attempt - after the no confidence vote, to not even attempt to remove Corbyn if he won't go voluntarily would be gutless. Understandable, given it is expected he would win a contest if he doesn't stand aside of his own accord, but still gutless.
Great reverse psychology by @david_herdson
That said, the near-fortnight long delay hasn't done her or the anti-Corbyn campaign any favours. They're now launching the challenge - assuming that they do - against a backdrop where Corbyn is speaking on a relavant issue where he was right and where she was wrong; Corbyn has proven himself willing to stand up for himself and for his beliefs and his opponents have looked either fractious or timid (being generous, you could argue that they were seeking to give Corbyn an honourable way out but while that might have been a legitimate argument for delaying 12 hours, that same case doesn't stretch to 12 days).
Problem is, what is the plan for if - when - she loses?
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Once again the westminster bubble loses the plot by descending in to tory women jello wrestling
Any chance either of these two might have some policies ?
And if so what are they ?0 -
She does an Estelle Morris and hands the job to Chuka?ToryJim said:
Do they even have a plan for if she wins?david_herdson said:
It was of course inevitable after this morning's article, wasn't it?!Jobabob said:
Eagle is a stalking horsekle4 said:About time!
On both.
Eagle is probably doomed, but at least someone is making the attempt - after the no confidence vote, to not even attempt to remove Corbyn if he won't go voluntarily would be gutless. Understandable, given it is expected he would win a contest if he doesn't stand aside of his own accord, but still gutless.
Great reverse psychology by @david_herdson
That said, the near-fortnight long delay hasn't done her or the anti-Corbyn campaign any favours. They're now launching the challenge - assuming that they do - against a backdrop where Corbyn is speaking on a relavant issue where he was right and where she was wrong; Corbyn has proven himself willing to stand up for himself and for his beliefs and his opponents have looked either fractious or timid (being generous, you could argue that they were seeking to give Corbyn an honourable way out but while that might have been a legitimate argument for delaying 12 hours, that same case doesn't stretch to 12 days).
Problem is, what is the plan for if - when - she loses?0 -
From Angela Eagles' to-do list:ToryJim said:
Do they even have a plan for if she wins?david_herdson said:
It was of course inevitable after this morning's article, wasn't it?!Jobabob said:
Eagle is a stalking horsekle4 said:About time!
On both.
Eagle is probably doomed, but at least someone is making the attempt - after the no confidence vote, to not even attempt to remove Corbyn if he won't go voluntarily would be gutless. Understandable, given it is expected he would win a contest if he doesn't stand aside of his own accord, but still gutless.
Great reverse psychology by @david_herdson
That said, the near-fortnight long delay hasn't done her or the anti-Corbyn campaign any favours. They're now launching the challenge - assuming that they do - against a backdrop where Corbyn is speaking on a relavant issue where he was right and where she was wrong; Corbyn has proven himself willing to stand up for himself and for his beliefs and his opponents have looked either fractious or timid (being generous, you could argue that they were seeking to give Corbyn an honourable way out but while that might have been a legitimate argument for delaying 12 hours, that same case doesn't stretch to 12 days).
Problem is, what is the plan for if - when - she loses?
Job one, day one. Change rules for leadership elections.0 -
If 170 Labour MPs joined the Lib Dems, they wouldn't be serving under Farron; it'd be one of their own.oxfordsimon said:
Farron is not the sort of person who would tempt people to defect to serve under him.SeanT said:
The obvious move, I guess, is for the bulk of the PLP to unite with the Lib Dems. There really isn't room for more than one centre left party in the UK.MaxPB said:
Yes, Labour will have to split. I don't know where they go from here without splitting. I do wonder what union types will do, will they stick with Labour official of break off and try to woo the more sane unions.SeanT said:That's it, isn't? Labour is finished now. The unions are backing Corbyn so he'll be on the ballot, and he will win.
The party will have to split
That would at least give us symmetry and logic. Old Labour on the hard left, Liberal Labour centre left, Tories (if May wins), centre right, and UKIP hard right.
I can imagine Old Labour and Lib Labour governing as a Coalition in 2025?0 -
Yes and of course the UK was originally a founder member of EFTA in 1960 along with Norway, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Austria and Portugal before voting to join the EEC in 1975.SeanT said:
You're never gonna persuade hardcore kippers who want us towed into the South Atlantic and zero migration, but there would be enough in this to persuade logical LEAVERS - it's the best we can reasonably expect.williamglenn said:
Wouldn't it smack of the same type of con as Cameron's 'the proles will believe anything' renegotiation?SeanT said:It's a compromise, but it will be in the interests of all to compromise. Both sides will be able to say they got a good deal. May could say "look we're liberated from the EU without doing too much damage", the EU could say "look the idiot Brits have no more influence on decision making but they're still having to pay"
The coming slowdown will concentrate minds and I anticipate Brits will be more willing to yield. Also the slowdown will reduce net migration anyway, so the pressure will be off.
And this deal would be some kind of relief to the 48% who voted REMAIN. So you'd have 60-70% of the country more or less onside...0 -
That isn't a defection, that is a take-over.david_herdson said:
If 170 Labour MPs joined the Lib Dems, they wouldn't be serving under Farron; it'd be one of their own.oxfordsimon said:
Farron is not the sort of person who would tempt people to defect to serve under him.SeanT said:
The obvious move, I guess, is for the bulk of the PLP to unite with the Lib Dems. There really isn't room for more than one centre left party in the UK.MaxPB said:
Yes, Labour will have to split. I don't know where they go from here without splitting. I do wonder what union types will do, will they stick with Labour official of break off and try to woo the more sane unions.SeanT said:That's it, isn't? Labour is finished now. The unions are backing Corbyn so he'll be on the ballot, and he will win.
The party will have to split
That would at least give us symmetry and logic. Old Labour on the hard left, Liberal Labour centre left, Tories (if May wins), centre right, and UKIP hard right.
I can imagine Old Labour and Lib Labour governing as a Coalition in 2025?
Much better to develop a new brand than be part of a fading phoenix0 -
If one of them is brave enough to defect on their own, they could become the de facto leader once it became a stampede.david_herdson said:
If 170 Labour MPs joined the Lib Dems, they wouldn't be serving under Farron; it'd be one of their own.oxfordsimon said:
Farron is not the sort of person who would tempt people to defect to serve under him.SeanT said:
The obvious move, I guess, is for the bulk of the PLP to unite with the Lib Dems. There really isn't room for more than one centre left party in the UK.MaxPB said:
Yes, Labour will have to split. I don't know where they go from here without splitting. I do wonder what union types will do, will they stick with Labour official of break off and try to woo the more sane unions.SeanT said:That's it, isn't? Labour is finished now. The unions are backing Corbyn so he'll be on the ballot, and he will win.
The party will have to split
That would at least give us symmetry and logic. Old Labour on the hard left, Liberal Labour centre left, Tories (if May wins), centre right, and UKIP hard right.
I can imagine Old Labour and Lib Labour governing as a Coalition in 2025?
It's not going to happen though.0 -
News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot0 -
UK joined in 1973.HYUFD said:
Yes and of course the UK was originally a founder member of EFTA in 1960 along with Norway, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Austria and Portugal before voting to join the EEC in 1975.SeanT said:
You're never gonna persuade hardcore kippers who want us towed into the South Atlantic and zero migration, but there would be enough in this to persuade logical LEAVERS - it's the best we can reasonably expect.williamglenn said:
Wouldn't it smack of the same type of con as Cameron's 'the proles will believe anything' renegotiation?SeanT said:It's a compromise, but it will be in the interests of all to compromise. Both sides will be able to say they got a good deal. May could say "look we're liberated from the EU without doing too much damage", the EU could say "look the idiot Brits have no more influence on decision making but they're still having to pay"
The coming slowdown will concentrate minds and I anticipate Brits will be more willing to yield. Also the slowdown will reduce net migration anyway, so the pressure will be off.
And this deal would be some kind of relief to the 48% who voted REMAIN. So you'd have 60-70% of the country more or less onside...
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That's a bit of a nonsense. We don't know yet how many Conservative MPs won't support their elected leader. Usually the vast majority accept the result of leader elected. Quite different from Labour MPs who actually want to remove their elected leader.AndyJS said:If the main party leaders are going to be Corbyn and Leadsom, you'd have about 420 MPs from Con and Lab who don't support their leader.
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Agree entirelySeanT said:
That's the crucial phrase. May says she wants "controlled freedom of movement" - hence my speculations downthread, as to what that might mean (emergency brakes, need for job offer, etc)HYUFD said:
Yes but May is at least prepared to try and having said today she will accept 'controlled freedom of movement' will likely get a deal, Leadsom will not as she has said she will end freedom of movementEPG said:It is a best-case scenario to think the UK can go into negotiations and get everything it wants, both single market access and no freedom of movement, and to force the other EU countries to cave on their main negotiating position.
The EU could, I think, accept this on the basis that free movement had not been fundamentally challenged (just *qualified*), the UK could accept this on the basis that we would have much more control over who comes in (if not absolute control).
It's a compromise, but it will be in the interests of all to compromise. Both sides will be able to say they got a good deal. May could say "look we're liberated from the EU without doing too much damage", the EU could say "look the idiot Brits have no more influence on decision making but they're still having to pay"0 -
We know May has nothing and looks like the other one is just as uselessAlanbrooke said:Once again the westminster bubble loses the plot by descending in to tory women jello wrestling
Any chance either of these two might have some policies ?
And if so what are they ?0 -
No.John_M said:
From Angela Eagles' to-do list:ToryJim said:
Do they even have a plan for if she wins?david_herdson said:
It was of course inevitable after this morning's article, wasn't it?!Jobabob said:
Eagle is a stalking horsekle4 said:About time!
On both.
Eagle is probably doomed, but at least someone is making the attempt - after the no confidence vote, to not even attempt to remove Corbyn if he won't go voluntarily would be gutless. Understandable, given it is expected he would win a contest if he doesn't stand aside of his own accord, but still gutless.
Great reverse psychology by @david_herdson
That said, the near-fortnight long delay hasn't done her or the anti-Corbyn campaign any favours. They're now launching the challenge - assuming that they do - against a backdrop where Corbyn is speaking on a relavant issue where he was right and where she was wrong; Corbyn has proven himself willing to stand up for himself and for his beliefs and his opponents have looked either fractious or timid (being generous, you could argue that they were seeking to give Corbyn an honourable way out but while that might have been a legitimate argument for delaying 12 hours, that same case doesn't stretch to 12 days).
Problem is, what is the plan for if - when - she loses?
Job one, day one. Change rules for leadership elections.
Day one - ban Momentum and remove all of their members from Labour party lists
Without the purge, she would never be secure.0 -
Mr. Bunnco, welcome back [though, happily, after a short hiatus only].0
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Yes but Leadsom will not get access to the single market unless she accepts at least some freedom of movement which she has said she will notwilliamglenn said:
Leadsom's also said that the single market is in all our interests. The main difference I see between them is the starting bid in negotiations on freedom of movement: May will start from the status quo and look for what can be 'controlled' (or simply made subject to Home Office bureaucracy) whereas Leadsom will start from the position that the rEU is put on the same basis as the US, Australia, etc.HYUFD said:
Yes but May is at least prepared to try and having said today she will accept 'controlled freedom of movement' will likely get a deal, Leadsom will not as she has said she will end freedom of movementEPG said:It is a best-case scenario to think the UK can go into negotiations and get everything it wants, both single market access and no freedom of movement, and to force the other EU countries to cave on their main negotiating position.
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The risk is that all this overblown opprobrium will lower the bar she needs to step over in the coming weeks. Leadsom may not be PM material but she's clearly got some political talent.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot0 -
Good point. I agree. Could she actually do that?oxfordsimon said:
No.John_M said:
From Angela Eagles' to-do list:ToryJim said:
Do they even have a plan for if she wins?david_herdson said:
It was of course inevitable after this morning's article, wasn't it?!Jobabob said:
Eagle is a stalking horsekle4 said:About time!
On both.
Eagle is probably doomed, but at least someone is making the attempt - after the no confidence vote, to not even attempt to remove Corbyn if he won't go voluntarily would be gutless. Understandable, given it is expected he would win a contest if he doesn't stand aside of his own accord, but still gutless.
Great reverse psychology by @david_herdson
That said, the near-fortnight long delay hasn't done her or the anti-Corbyn campaign any favours. They're now launching the challenge - assuming that they do - against a backdrop where Corbyn is speaking on a relavant issue where he was right and where she was wrong; Corbyn has proven himself willing to stand up for himself and for his beliefs and his opponents have looked either fractious or timid (being generous, you could argue that they were seeking to give Corbyn an honourable way out but while that might have been a legitimate argument for delaying 12 hours, that same case doesn't stretch to 12 days).
Problem is, what is the plan for if - when - she loses?
Job one, day one. Change rules for leadership elections.
Day one - ban Momentum and remove all of their members from Labour party lists
Without the purge, she would never be secure.0 -
It's not absurd. In fact, I'd mentally sketched out an article on very similar lines - a sort of Three-Plus Freedoms arrangement. However, the profusion of leadership elections to comment on meant that it hasn't been written yet.SeanT said:
I'm going to make a bold and absurd prediction.williamglenn said:
And with Barrosso taking a job at Goldman Sachs in London, no doubt the Commission will get the inside track on how the City is viewing things.SeanT said:As some of us predicted on here, the EU nation states are already "informally" talking to the UK about Brexit
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/philip-hammond-eu-leaders-happy-to-hold-informal-brexit-talks
It's realpolitik. The EU Commission can say what it likes, but in the end if Paris, Rome and Berlin want to talk to London - and clearly they do - then that is what will happen.
May will win. She will swiftly move to a kind of EEA+ situation. The UK will retain full access to the Single Market. We will agree to pay a very hefty contribution - probably more than Norway per capita - but a few million less than we do now; in return we will get qualified free movement: only people with job offers can move to the UK, and we have an emergency brake.
Everyone will be half satisfied, but no more than that. We will be still be closely linked to the EU, pacifying the REMAINIANS. We will be out of CAP, CFP, much of the acquis, pacifying the sovereigntists. Immigration will come down and we will have much more migration control (but not total), pacifying the migration-worriers. The City will survive.
It will be a fudge. But one that most of the country will tolerate, perhaps relieved that Doomsday has been averted.0 -
Lol doubt we'd let them all in - 170 MPs can't destabilise their own leader so try and destabilise someone elses. Is Andy Burnham amongst the 170 or does Corbyn have him hostage ?david_herdson said:
If 170 Labour MPs joined the Lib Dems, they wouldn't be serving under Farron; it'd be one of their own.oxfordsimon said:
Farron is not the sort of person who would tempt people to defect to serve under him.SeanT said:
The obvious move, I guess, is for the bulk of the PLP to unite with the Lib Dems. There really isn't room for more than one centre left party in the UK.MaxPB said:
Yes, Labour will have to split. I don't know where they go from here without splitting. I do wonder what union types will do, will they stick with Labour official of break off and try to woo the more sane unions.SeanT said:That's it, isn't? Labour is finished now. The unions are backing Corbyn so he'll be on the ballot, and he will win.
The party will have to split
That would at least give us symmetry and logic. Old Labour on the hard left, Liberal Labour centre left, Tories (if May wins), centre right, and UKIP hard right.
I can imagine Old Labour and Lib Labour governing as a Coalition in 2025?0 -
Mr. Pulpstar, Burnham's in a waiting room, watching the hours crawl by before he can try and be mayor of Manchester.0
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I don't think so. Not without a lot of blood letting.John_M said:
Good point. I agree. Could she actually do that?oxfordsimon said:
No.John_M said:
From Angela Eagles' to-do list:ToryJim said:
Do they even have a plan for if she wins?david_herdson said:
It was of course inevitable after this morning's article, wasn't it?!Jobabob said:
Eagle is a stalking horsekle4 said:About time!
On both.
Eagle is probably doomed, but at least someone is making the attempt - after the no confidence vote, to not even attempt to remove Corbyn if he won't go voluntarily would be gutless. Understandable, given it is expected he would win a contest if he doesn't stand aside of his own accord, but still gutless.
Great reverse psychology by @david_herdson
That said, the near-fortnight long delay hasn't done her or the anti-Corbyn campaign any favours. They're now launching the challenge - assuming that they do - against a backdrop where Corbyn is speaking on a relavant issue where he was right and where she was wrong; Corbyn has proven himself willing to stand up for himself and for his beliefs and his opponents have looked either fractious or timid (being generous, you could argue that they were seeking to give Corbyn an honourable way out but while that might have been a legitimate argument for delaying 12 hours, that same case doesn't stretch to 12 days).
Problem is, what is the plan for if - when - she loses?
Job one, day one. Change rules for leadership elections.
Day one - ban Momentum and remove all of their members from Labour party lists
Without the purge, she would never be secure.
Momentum is more dangerous to the long term survival of The Labour Party than Militant ever was.0 -
The Barings weekend is due some scrutiny. She needs asking whether she actually met Eddie George that weekend, or indeed ever.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot0 -
He needs Corbyn in post...Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pulpstar, Burnham's in a waiting room, watching the hours crawl by before he can try and be mayor of Manchester.
0 -
It joined EFTA in 1960, EEC entry was only completed in 1975 after the referendum was wonSunil_Prasannan said:
UK joined in 1973.HYUFD said:
Yes and of course the UK was originally a founder member of EFTA in 1960 along with Norway, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Austria and Portugal before voting to join the EEC in 1975.SeanT said:
You're never gonna persuade hardcore kippers who want us towed into the South Atlantic and zero migration, but there would be enough in this to persuade logical LEAVERS - it's the best we can reasonably expect.williamglenn said:
Wouldn't it smack of the same type of con as Cameron's 'the proles will believe anything' renegotiation?SeanT said:It's a compromise, but it will be in the interests of all to compromise. Both sides will be able to say they got a good deal. May could say "look we're liberated from the EU without doing too much damage", the EU could say "look the idiot Brits have no more influence on decision making but they're still having to pay"
The coming slowdown will concentrate minds and I anticipate Brits will be more willing to yield. Also the slowdown will reduce net migration anyway, so the pressure will be off.
And this deal would be some kind of relief to the 48% who voted REMAIN. So you'd have 60-70% of the country more or less onside...0 -
It's been a few days since it got down to the final two - policies will come, the first few days would always have been about making an impression.Alanbrooke said:Once again the westminster bubble loses the plot by descending in to tory women jello wrestling
Any chance either of these two might have some policies ?
And if so what are they ?
0 -
"In the Stasi, we had a basic principle: ask enough questions and a man who is lying will eventually change his story. But the man who tells the truth cannot change his, however unlikely his story sounds."
- Bruno Ganz (of "Downfall" fame) in "Unknown" (2011)0 -
Having adjusted a CV, and faked an apology from The Times, what are the tax returns going to look like?0
-
May will clearly win but Leadsom may get a significant vote just through opposing freedom of movement, which UKIP will then look to build onbunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot0 -
the Mayists are too busy pursuing their womb with a view scandalSeanT said:
Yes, and too much sneering and chortling will win Leadsom precious sympathy.williamglenn said:
The risk is that all this overblown opprobrium will lower the bar she needs to step over in the coming weeks. Leadsom may not be PM material but she's clearly got some political talent.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot
The best strategy, for her opponents, is to step back and let her trip over her own contradictions. She's already on record saying "the £ will not fall after Brexit".
it's just amazing the politicos get one of their biggest kicking in living memory and they still think we give a fuck about where they get their hair done.0 -
Correct. I found her protestations weak and unconvincing, not to mention playing on familiar bullcrap persecution - remainstream media is a particularly lazy version of the usual stuff - but if she's so bad, she doesn't need help to do it. If she's not so bad, well, then all the better.SeanT said:
Yes, and too much sneering and chortling will win Leadsom precious sympathy.williamglenn said:
The risk is that all this overblown opprobrium will lower the bar she needs to step over in the coming weeks. Leadsom may not be PM material but she's clearly got some political talent.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot
The best strategy, for her opponents, is to step back and let her trip over her own contradictions.0 -
A high risk - but potentially high reward - option would be for PM May to begin quiet talks with Juppe/Sarkozy now. It would probably flatter their ego no end to be involved in something so important before they're even elected.MaxPB said:
I think it will be tough to get a heads of agreement with Hollande and then have Juppe or Sarkozy sign it into law with few to no changes.JackW said:
Nonsense.rcs1000 said:There is a good argument for holding off on Article 50 until the new French President is elected on May 7 next year. Simply, otherwise you'll have six months of negotiations with (the doomed) Francois Hollande, before transferring to Alain Juppe (or perhaps Marine Le Pen).
Yet more uncertainty, dither and drift. No thank you.
PM May - Action this day. "We leave the EU on 31st December 2018."
There's leadership for you ....
0 -
It's interesting that Merkel has had a couple of meetings with Sarkozy recently.rcs1000 said:
A high risk - but potentially high reward - option would be for PM May to begin quiet talks with Juppe/Sarkozy now. It would probably flatter their ego no end to be involved in something so important before they're even elected.MaxPB said:
I think it will be tough to get a heads of agreement with Hollande and then have Juppe or Sarkozy sign it into law with few to no changes.JackW said:
Nonsense.rcs1000 said:There is a good argument for holding off on Article 50 until the new French President is elected on May 7 next year. Simply, otherwise you'll have six months of negotiations with (the doomed) Francois Hollande, before transferring to Alain Juppe (or perhaps Marine Le Pen).
Yet more uncertainty, dither and drift. No thank you.
PM May - Action this day. "We leave the EU on 31st December 2018."
There's leadership for you ....0 -
Burnham is consistently coming third in the selection process. He is never going to be Mayor of anything other than Munchkinland...Scott_P said:
He needs Corbyn in post...Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pulpstar, Burnham's in a waiting room, watching the hours crawl by before he can try and be mayor of Manchester.
0 -
Once she has gone I will feel sorry for her. but she needs to go.kle4 said:
Correct. I found her protestations weak and unconvincing, not to mention playing on familiar bullcrap persecution - remainstream media is a particularly lazy version of the usual stuff - but if she's so bad, she doesn't need help to do it. If she's not so bad, well, then all the better.SeanT said:
Yes, and too much sneering and chortling will win Leadsom precious sympathy.williamglenn said:
The risk is that all this overblown opprobrium will lower the bar she needs to step over in the coming weeks. Leadsom may not be PM material but she's clearly got some political talent.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot
The best strategy, for her opponents, is to step back and let her trip over her own contradictions.0 -
Work visa granted in UK or journey home necessary? I could only get my Spanish work visa from the consulate in London.HYUFD said:
Agree entirelySeanT said:
That's the crucial phrase. May says she wants "controlled freedom of movement" - hence my speculations downthread, as to what that might mean (emergency brakes, need for job offer, etc)HYUFD said:
Yes but May is at least prepared to try and having said today she will accept 'controlled freedom of movement' will likely get a deal, Leadsom will not as she has said she will end freedom of movementEPG said:It is a best-case scenario to think the UK can go into negotiations and get everything it wants, both single market access and no freedom of movement, and to force the other EU countries to cave on their main negotiating position.
The EU could, I think, accept this on the basis that free movement had not been fundamentally challenged (just *qualified*), the UK could accept this on the basis that we would have much more control over who comes in (if not absolute control).
It's a compromise, but it will be in the interests of all to compromise. Both sides will be able to say they got a good deal. May could say "look we're liberated from the EU without doing too much damage", the EU could say "look the idiot Brits have no more influence on decision making but they're still having to pay"
0 -
I guess you don't care how untruthful our politicians are. I do,Alanbrooke said:
the Mayists are too busy pursuing their womb with a view scandalSeanT said:
Yes, and too much sneering and chortling will win Leadsom precious sympathy.williamglenn said:
The risk is that all this overblown opprobrium will lower the bar she needs to step over in the coming weeks. Leadsom may not be PM material but she's clearly got some political talent.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot
The best strategy, for her opponents, is to step back and let her trip over her own contradictions. She's already on record saying "the £ will not fall after Brexit".
it's just amazing the politicos get one of their biggest kicking in living memory and they still think we give a fuck about where they get their hair done.0 -
Now this is interesting ...
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/7518327745213562880 -
She cannot go as Tory rules mean May would then be unopposed, a disaster which would give her no mandate when she agrees to the UK staying in the EEAIshmael_X said:
Once she has gone I will feel sorry for her. but she needs to go.kle4 said:
Correct. I found her protestations weak and unconvincing, not to mention playing on familiar bullcrap persecution - remainstream media is a particularly lazy version of the usual stuff - but if she's so bad, she doesn't need help to do it. If she's not so bad, well, then all the better.SeanT said:
Yes, and too much sneering and chortling will win Leadsom precious sympathy.williamglenn said:
The risk is that all this overblown opprobrium will lower the bar she needs to step over in the coming weeks. Leadsom may not be PM material but she's clearly got some political talent.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot
The best strategy, for her opponents, is to step back and let her trip over her own contradictions.0 -
It is only interesting if the number of eligible voters who register is the same across age groups. From other figures I've seen, that simply is not the case. The apathy of the youth manifests itself at the registration stage.SouthamObserver said:Now this is interesting ...
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/7518327745213562880 -
Denmark, Ireland and the UK joined the Community effective 1 January 1973.HYUFD said:
It joined EFTA in 1960, EEC entry was only completed in 1975 after the referendum was wonSunil_Prasannan said:
UK joined in 1973.HYUFD said:
Yes and of course the UK was originally a founder member of EFTA in 1960 along with Norway, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Austria and Portugal before voting to join the EEC in 1975.SeanT said:
You're never gonna persuade hardcore kippers who want us towed into the South Atlantic and zero migration, but there would be enough in this to persuade logical LEAVERS - it's the best we can reasonably expect.williamglenn said:
Wouldn't it smack of the same type of con as Cameron's 'the proles will believe anything' renegotiation?SeanT said:It's a compromise, but it will be in the interests of all to compromise. Both sides will be able to say they got a good deal. May could say "look we're liberated from the EU without doing too much damage", the EU could say "look the idiot Brits have no more influence on decision making but they're still having to pay"
The coming slowdown will concentrate minds and I anticipate Brits will be more willing to yield. Also the slowdown will reduce net migration anyway, so the pressure will be off.
And this deal would be some kind of relief to the 48% who voted REMAIN. So you'd have 60-70% of the country more or less onside...0 -
Absolutely not a cult ...
https://twitter.com/laboureoin/status/7518330229331107840 -
Sample size of 2,002? Seems pretty thin to me - though I have no axe to grind here.SouthamObserver said:Now this is interesting ...
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/7518327745213562880 -
Technical details to be worked out yes but a deal will be doneSouthamObserver said:
Work visa granted in UK or journey home necessary? I could only get my Spanish work visa from the consulate in London.HYUFD said:
Agree entirelySeanT said:
That's the crucial phrase. May says she wants "controlled freedom of movement" - hence my speculations downthread, as to what that might mean (emergency brakes, need for job offer, etc)HYUFD said:
Yes but May is at least prepared to try and having said today she will accept 'controlled freedom of movement' will likely get a deal, Leadsom will not as she has said she will end freedom of movementEPG said:It is a best-case scenario to think the UK can go into negotiations and get everything it wants, both single market access and no freedom of movement, and to force the other EU countries to cave on their main negotiating position.
The EU could, I think, accept this on the basis that free movement had not been fundamentally challenged (just *qualified*), the UK could accept this on the basis that we would have much more control over who comes in (if not absolute control).
It's a compromise, but it will be in the interests of all to compromise. Both sides will be able to say they got a good deal. May could say "look we're liberated from the EU without doing too much damage", the EU could say "look the idiot Brits have no more influence on decision making but they're still having to pay"0 -
The Labour Party is an unincorporated association of the mass members. The possibility that the PLP might split into two factions is irrelevant, even if the smaller faction remains the 'official' group.MarkHopkins said:SeanT said:That's it, isn't? Labour is finished now. The unions are backing Corbyn so he'll be on the ballot, and he will win.
The party will have to split
But who will get the assets, the name, etc? There is no guarantee it has to be Corbyn's lot.
Maybe split now, and regroup for 2020. Probably best for them now.
Furthermore, even if the mass membership split, it is doubtful that the splitters, even if a majority (highly unlikely), could walk off with the name and assets.
The courts would probably take the view that it's an internal matter of control [a power-struggle], and if one faction can't get the upper hand via the party's own rules, and instead choose to walk, they have no rights to anything, and would have to start a new party.
I haven't checked the Labour Party Rules, but the general principle is the minority [even a single member] cannot be deprived of their property, unless the rules they have agreed to when joining provide for it.0 -
McDonnell, Livingstone? Not in the first flush of youth though and couldn't possibly be 'rivals' for the succession unless voters accept the idea of leaders sometimes having, er, grey hair.Pulpstar said:Corbyn has a passion and belief you simply don't see in any of his Labour rivals tbh.
No, I haven't heard much passion in the young ones, except the SNP MP who got a standing ovation for her maiden speech. Perhaps Blair rigged the selection process enough to attract mostly apparatchiks.
He's pretty well destroyed the party. It's something which the Tories must be amazed at, but also pretty concerned if they're sensible and realise that a FPTP system needs a proper Opposition and ideally not too large a majority.0 -
Why exactly should we believe an opinion poll conducting 3 weeks later is any more accurate than one conducted on the day of the poll?SouthamObserver said:Now this is interesting ...
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/751832774521356288
The methodology involves adjustments for false recall which must surely be partially begging the question when you're trying to work out who actually voted. Given the hysteria afterwards it would not be remotely shocking for young 'voters' to be most likely to claim to have voted when they didn't.0 -
Yep - my 23 year old nephew, who is training to be an electrician, voted Leave. All his mates did too.SeanT said:
It is. It also implies that a lot more young people voted LEAVE than we have presumed. Otherwise REMAIN would have won.SouthamObserver said:Now this is interesting ...
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/751832774521356288
0 -
Because Opinium predicted a Leave victory?maaarsh said:
Why exactly should we believe an opinion poll conducting 3 weeks later is any more accurate than one conducted on the day of the poll?SouthamObserver said:Now this is interesting ...
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/751832774521356288
The methodology involves adjustments for false recall which must surely be partially begging the question when you're trying to work out who actually voted. Given the hysteria afterwards it would not be remotely shocking for young 'voters' to be most likely to claim to have voted when they didn't.0 -
The King in the north !SouthamObserver said:Absolutely not a cult ...
https://twitter.com/laboureoin/status/7518330229331107840 -
I've heard a rumour that the winner of Juppe and Sarkozy will make the other PM in their administration. It's a pretty plausible story.williamglenn said:
It's interesting that Merkel has had a couple of meetings with Sarkozy recently.rcs1000 said:
A high risk - but potentially high reward - option would be for PM May to begin quiet talks with Juppe/Sarkozy now. It would probably flatter their ego no end to be involved in something so important before they're even elected.MaxPB said:
I think it will be tough to get a heads of agreement with Hollande and then have Juppe or Sarkozy sign it into law with few to no changes.JackW said:
Nonsense.rcs1000 said:There is a good argument for holding off on Article 50 until the new French President is elected on May 7 next year. Simply, otherwise you'll have six months of negotiations with (the doomed) Francois Hollande, before transferring to Alain Juppe (or perhaps Marine Le Pen).
Yet more uncertainty, dither and drift. No thank you.
PM May - Action this day. "We leave the EU on 31st December 2018."
There's leadership for you ....0 -
theyre all untruthful, thats why theyre politicians.SquareRoot said:
I guess you don't care how untruthful our politicians are. I do,Alanbrooke said:
the Mayists are too busy pursuing their womb with a view scandalSeanT said:
Yes, and too much sneering and chortling will win Leadsom precious sympathy.williamglenn said:
The risk is that all this overblown opprobrium will lower the bar she needs to step over in the coming weeks. Leadsom may not be PM material but she's clearly got some political talent.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot
The best strategy, for her opponents, is to step back and let her trip over her own contradictions. She's already on record saying "the £ will not fall after Brexit".
it's just amazing the politicos get one of their biggest kicking in living memory and they still think we give a fuck about where they get their hair done.0 -
I think your second word is redundant and the last word misspelt ....SouthamObserver said:Absolutely not a cult ..
0 -
Shame The North did not bother to support Corbyn’s call for Remain.SouthamObserver said:Absolutely not a cult ...
https://twitter.com/laboureoin/status/7518330229331107840 -
Northern rebellions do tend to fail. And there is no evidence that this will be anything different...Pulpstar said:
The King in the north !SouthamObserver said:Absolutely not a cult ...
https://twitter.com/laboureoin/status/751833022933110784
Kings in the north quite often end up dead....0 -
I don't think that's true: we become members of the EEC in 1973, the referendum merely confirmed what was already the case.HYUFD said:
It joined EFTA in 1960, EEC entry was only completed in 1975 after the referendum was wonSunil_Prasannan said:
UK joined in 1973.HYUFD said:
Yes and of course the UK was originally a founder member of EFTA in 1960 along with Norway, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Austria and Portugal before voting to join the EEC in 1975.SeanT said:
You're never gonna persuade hardcore kippers who want us towed into the South Atlantic and zero migration, but there would be enough in this to persuade logical LEAVERS - it's the best we can reasonably expect.williamglenn said:
Wouldn't it smack of the same type of con as Cameron's 'the proles will believe anything' renegotiation?SeanT said:It's a compromise, but it will be in the interests of all to compromise. Both sides will be able to say they got a good deal. May could say "look we're liberated from the EU without doing too much damage", the EU could say "look the idiot Brits have no more influence on decision making but they're still having to pay"
The coming slowdown will concentrate minds and I anticipate Brits will be more willing to yield. Also the slowdown will reduce net migration anyway, so the pressure will be off.
And this deal would be some kind of relief to the 48% who voted REMAIN. So you'd have 60-70% of the country more or less onside...0 -
They have to be untruthful. The country would go into meltdown if they were told the truthAlanbrooke said:
theyre all untruthful, thats why theyre politicians.SquareRoot said:
I guess you don't care how untruthful our politicians are. I do,Alanbrooke said:
the Mayists are too busy pursuing their womb with a view scandalSeanT said:
Yes, and too much sneering and chortling will win Leadsom precious sympathy.williamglenn said:
The risk is that all this overblown opprobrium will lower the bar she needs to step over in the coming weeks. Leadsom may not be PM material but she's clearly got some political talent.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot
The best strategy, for her opponents, is to step back and let her trip over her own contradictions. She's already on record saying "the £ will not fall after Brexit".
it's just amazing the politicos get one of their biggest kicking in living memory and they still think we give a fuck about where they get their hair done.. 0 -
You are just an everyday cynic. Is your glass half full or half empty....Alanbrooke said:
theyre all untruthful, thats why theyre politicians.SquareRoot said:
I guess you don't care how untruthful our politicians are. I do,Alanbrooke said:
the Mayists are too busy pursuing their womb with a view scandalSeanT said:
Yes, and too much sneering and chortling will win Leadsom precious sympathy.williamglenn said:
The risk is that all this overblown opprobrium will lower the bar she needs to step over in the coming weeks. Leadsom may not be PM material but she's clearly got some political talent.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot
The best strategy, for her opponents, is to step back and let her trip over her own contradictions. She's already on record saying "the £ will not fall after Brexit".
it's just amazing the politicos get one of their biggest kicking in living memory and they still think we give a fuck about where they get their hair done.0 -
Given that a large chunk of 18-24 year olds don't register, even if the poll is right it's only half the picture.maaarsh said:
Why exactly should we believe an opinion poll conducting 3 weeks later is any more accurate than one conducted on the day of the poll?SouthamObserver said:Now this is interesting ...
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/751832774521356288
The methodology involves adjustments for false recall which must surely be partially begging the question when you're trying to work out who actually voted. Given the hysteria afterwards it would not be remotely shocking for young 'voters' to be most likely to claim to have voted when they didn't.0 -
well lets see can you think of any PM in the modern era who hasnt lied ? Im afraid in your search for a saint you will be sorely disappointed.SquareRoot said:
You are just an everyday cynic. Is your glass half full or half empty....Alanbrooke said:
theyre all untruthful, thats why theyre politicians.SquareRoot said:
I guess you don't care how untruthful our politicians are. I do,Alanbrooke said:
the Mayists are too busy pursuing their womb with a view scandalSeanT said:
Yes, and too much sneering and chortling will win Leadsom precious sympathy.williamglenn said:
The risk is that all this overblown opprobrium will lower the bar she needs to step over in the coming weeks. Leadsom may not be PM material but she's clearly got some political talent.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot
The best strategy, for her opponents, is to step back and let her trip over her own contradictions. She's already on record saying "the £ will not fall after Brexit".
it's just amazing the politicos get one of their biggest kicking in living memory and they still think we give a fuck about where they get their hair done.
I dont actually mind a liar PM if they are effective.0 -
They could hardly support something that really didn't existSimonStClare said:
Shame The North did not bother to support Corbyn’s call for Remain.SouthamObserver said:Absolutely not a cult ...
https://twitter.com/laboureoin/status/7518330229331107840 -
effective to your viewpoint= just about impossible. Life would be unbearable if you couldn't be critical of politicians.Alanbrooke said:
well lets see can you think of any PM in the modern era who hasnt lied ? Im afraid in your search for a saint you will be sorely disappointed.SquareRoot said:
You are just an everyday cynic. Is your glass half full or half empty....Alanbrooke said:
theyre all untruthful, thats why theyre politicians.SquareRoot said:
I guess you don't care how untruthful our politicians are. I do,Alanbrooke said:
the Mayists are too busy pursuing their womb with a view scandalSeanT said:
Yes, and too much sneering and chortling will win Leadsom precious sympathy.williamglenn said:
The risk is that all this overblown opprobrium will lower the bar she needs to step over in the coming weeks. Leadsom may not be PM material but she's clearly got some political talent.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot
The best strategy, for her opponents, is to step back and let her trip over her own contradictions. She's already on record saying "the £ will not fall after Brexit".
it's just amazing the politicos get one of their biggest kicking in living memory and they still think we give a fuck about where they get their hair done.
I dont actually mind a liar PM if they are effective.
0 -
Didn't that happen?SeanT said:
That's why I've always thought Mandelson would have made an excellent prime minister. Better than Blair or Brown, or the Milibands, or, of course, Corbyn.Alanbrooke said:
well lets see can you think of any PM in the modern era who hasnt lied ? Im afraid in your search for a saint you will be sorely disappointed.SquareRoot said:
You are just an everyday cynic. Is your glass half full or half empty....Alanbrooke said:
theyre all untruthful, thats why theyre politicians.SquareRoot said:
I guess you don't care how untruthful our politicians are. I do,Alanbrooke said:
the Mayists are too busy pursuing their womb with a view scandalSeanT said:
Yes, and too much sneering and chortling will win Leadsom precious sympathy.williamglenn said:
The risk is that all this overblown opprobrium will lower the bar she needs to step over in the coming weeks. Leadsom may not be PM material but she's clearly got some political talent.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot
The best strategy, for her opponents, is to step back and let her trip over her own contradictions. She's already on record saying "the £ will not fall after Brexit".
it's just amazing the politicos get one of their biggest kicking in living memory and they still think we give a fuck about where they get their hair done.
I dont actually mind a liar PM if they are effective.
He's a ruthless and cynical liar, but he's very good at it. And he's very smart, and a cunning political operator. A kind of Jewish Alex Salmond, without the Messiah complex.
Mandelson was just Francis Urquart with a different hair-do surely...0 -
It's a fairly arrogant profession, these are people who say they can run your life better than you can. Really they can't.SquareRoot said:
effective to your viewpoint= just about impossible. Life would be unbearable if you couldn't be critical of politicians.Alanbrooke said:
well lets see can you think of any PM in the modern era who hasnt lied ? Im afraid in your search for a saint you will be sorely disappointed.SquareRoot said:
You are just an everyday cynic. Is your glass half full or half empty....Alanbrooke said:
theyre all untruthful, thats why theyre politicians.SquareRoot said:
I guess you don't care how untruthful our politicians are. I do,Alanbrooke said:
the Mayists are too busy pursuing their womb with a view scandalSeanT said:
Yes, and too much sneering and chortling will win Leadsom precious sympathy.williamglenn said:
The risk is that all this overblown opprobrium will lower the bar she needs to step over in the coming weeks. Leadsom may not be PM material but she's clearly got some political talent.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot
The best strategy, for her opponents, is to step back and let her trip over her own contradictions. She's already on record saying "the £ will not fall after Brexit".
it's just amazing the politicos get one of their biggest kicking in living memory and they still think we give a fuck about where they get their hair done.
I dont actually mind a liar PM if they are effective.0 -
The Tory contest is turning into an edition of Loose Women and the Labour contest ...
Is Jezza still clinging on? He's had his day in the sun with the Chilcot report. Even that was an anti-climax. Blair follows Bush on some random bop a dictator war. It always seemed odd and the reasons given were odder still. If you're launching a war on terror, why pick on one of the few dictators in the region who was relatively secular - his second in command was Catholic.
So Jezza was against. Big deal. He'd have been against fighting even if Saddam had invaded Kent and begun executing the natives.
May vs Eagles. The nonentity against the squeaky door.0 -
Two rumoured corrections:
Eagle will launch tomorrow on Peston, not Monday?
Youth turnout in EUref now believed to be 64%, not <50% as previously thought0 -
There is a distinct lack if quality on both sides of the house. When the Tory big beasts are the likes of Grayling, Javid and Hammond and the Labour ones non-existent it's clear that something is wrong with our politics and we're not attracting the right people any more.SeanT said:
He seems like a kind of political giant, now, in retrospect - given the pygmies in charge of Labour, today.oxfordsimon said:
Didn't that happen?SeanT said:
That's why I've always thought Mandelson would have made an excellent prime minister. Better than Blair or Brown, or the Milibands, or, of course, Corbyn.Alanbrooke said:
well lets see can you think of any PM in the modern era who hasnt lied ? Im afraid in your search for a saint you will be sorely disappointed.SquareRoot said:
You are just an everyday cynic. Is your glass half full or half empty....Alanbrooke said:
theyre all untruthful, thats why theyre politicians.SquareRoot said:
I guess you don't care how untruthful our politicians are. I do,Alanbrooke said:
the Mayists are too busy pursuing their womb with a view scandalSeanT said:
Yes, and too much sneering and chortling will win Leadsom precious sympathy.williamglenn said:
The risk is that all this overblown opprobrium will lower the bar she needs to step over in the coming weeks. Leadsom may not be PM material but she's clearly got some political talent.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot
The best strategy, for her opponents, is to step back and let her trip over her own contradictions. She's already on record saying "the £ will not fall after Brexit".
it's just amazing the politicos get one of their biggest kicking in living memory and they still think we give a fuck about where they get their hair done.
I dont actually mind a liar PM if they are effective.
He's a ruthless and cynical liar, but he's very good at it. And he's very smart, and a cunning political operator. A kind of Jewish Alex Salmond, without the Messiah complex.
Mandelson was just Francis Urquart with a different hair-do surely...0 -
Mandelson?SeanT said:
That's why I've always thought Mandelson would have made an excellent prime minister. Better than Blair or Brown, or the Milibands, or, of course, Corbyn.Alanbrooke said:
well lets see can you think of any PM in the modern era who hasnt lied ? Im afraid in your search for a saint you will be sorely disappointed.SquareRoot said:
You are just an everyday cynic. Is your glass half full or half empty....Alanbrooke said:
theyre all untruthful, thats why theyre politicians.SquareRoot said:
I guess you don't care how untruthful our politicians are. I do,Alanbrooke said:
the Mayists are too busy pursuing their womb with a view scandalSeanT said:
Yes, and too much sneering and chortling will win Leadsom precious sympathy.williamglenn said:
The risk is that all this overblown opprobrium will lower the bar she needs to step over in the coming weeks. Leadsom may not be PM material but she's clearly got some political talent.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot
The best strategy, for her opponents, is to step back and let her trip over her own contradictions. She's already on record saying "the £ will not fall after Brexit".
it's just amazing the politicos get one of their biggest kicking in living memory and they still think we give a fuck about where they get their hair done.
I dont actually mind a liar PM if they are effective.
He's a ruthless and cynical liar, but he's very good at it. And he's very smart, and a cunning political operator. A kind of Jewish Alex Salmond, without the Messiah complex.
Hes certainly not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy?0 -
Of course we are not. All the real power was in Brussels.MaxPB said:
There is a distinct lack if quality on both sides of the house. When the Tory big beasts are the likes of Grayling, Javid and Hammond and the Labour ones non-existent it's clear that something is wrong with our politics and we're not attracting the right people any more.SeanT said:
He seems like a kind of political giant, now, in retrospect - given the pygmies in charge of Labour, today.oxfordsimon said:
Didn't that happen?SeanT said:
That's why I've always thought Mandelson would have made an excellent prime minister. Better than Blair or Brown, or the Milibands, or, of course, Corbyn.Alanbrooke said:
well lets see can you think of any PM in the modern era who hasnt lied ? Im afraid in your search for a saint you will be sorely disappointed.SquareRoot said:
You are just an everyday cynic. Is your glass half full or half empty....Alanbrooke said:
theyre all untruthful, thats why theyre politicians.SquareRoot said:
I guess you don't care how untruthful our politicians are. I do,Alanbrooke said:
the Mayists are too busy pursuing their womb with a view scandalSeanT said:
Yes, and too much sneering and chortling will win Leadsom precious sympathy.williamglenn said:
The risk is that all this overblown opprobrium will lower the bar she needs to step over in the coming weeks. Leadsom may not be PM material but she's clearly got some political talent.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot
The best strategy, for her opponents, is to step back and let her trip over her own contradictions. She's already on record saying "the £ will not fall after Brexit".
it's just amazing the politicos get one of their biggest kicking in living memory and they still think we give a fuck about where they get their hair done.
I dont actually mind a liar PM if they are effective.
He's a ruthless and cynical liar, but he's very good at it. And he's very smart, and a cunning political operator. A kind of Jewish Alex Salmond, without the Messiah complex.
Mandelson was just Francis Urquart with a different hair-do surely...
Now we have voted to change that the Buck Stops with Westminster and that will attract suitably able people over time.0 -
.. but you like to berate them for it daily don't you....Alanbrooke said:
It's a fairly arrogant profession, these are people who say they can run your life better than you can. Really they can't.SquareRoot said:
effective to your viewpoint= just about impossible. Life would be unbearable if you couldn't be critical of politicians.Alanbrooke said:
well lets see can you think of any PM in the modern era who hasnt lied ? Im afraid in your search for a saint you will be sorely disappointed.SquareRoot said:
You are just an everyday cynic. Is your glass half full or half empty....Alanbrooke said:
theyre all untruthful, thats why theyre politicians.SquareRoot said:
I guess you don't care how untruthful our politicians are. I do,Alanbrooke said:
the Mayists are too busy pursuing their womb with a view scandalSeanT said:
Yes, and too much sneering and chortling will win Leadsom precious sympathy.williamglenn said:
The risk is that all this overblown opprobrium will lower the bar she needs to step over in the coming weeks. Leadsom may not be PM material but she's clearly got some political talent.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot
The best strategy, for her opponents, is to step back and let her trip over her own contradictions. She's already on record saying "the £ will not fall after Brexit".
it's just amazing the politicos get one of their biggest kicking in living memory and they still think we give a fuck about where they get their hair done.
I dont actually mind a liar PM if they are effective.
Since I lost my wife, I have an entirely different outlook on life. and taking any politician seriously isn't on the agenda.
The reality is that at this juncture you have to vote Tory because Corbyn is bonkers, and until he is got rid of , it will remain so... then you can reassess. The individuals in the Tory party matter in this leadership election only inasmuch as the leader must be the one least likely to screw up, and that isn't Leadsom.0 -
Yep. We can't handle the truth.John_M said:
They have to be untruthful. The country would go into meltdown if they were told the truthAlanbrooke said:
theyre all untruthful, thats why theyre politicians.SquareRoot said:
I guess you don't care how untruthful our politicians are. I do,Alanbrooke said:
the Mayists are too busy pursuing their womb with a view scandalSeanT said:
Yes, and too much sneering and chortling will win Leadsom precious sympathy.williamglenn said:
The risk is that all this overblown opprobrium will lower the bar she needs to step over in the coming weeks. Leadsom may not be PM material but she's clearly got some political talent.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot
The best strategy, for her opponents, is to step back and let her trip over her own contradictions. She's already on record saying "the £ will not fall after Brexit".
it's just amazing the politicos get one of their biggest kicking in living memory and they still think we give a fuck about where they get their hair done..
The irony being that the Brexit vote is likely to do something that no politician dared: rebase our economy by slashing property prices by 30% or so and scaring people off excessive household debt thereby for generations.0 -
Brexiteers dont do experts, or so I've heard.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
The Norway option, even modified, seems like a non-starter to me. How can Theresa May say "Brexit means Brexit", yet keep us under the integrationist European Court of Justice, keep us under existing and future EU laws, and keep us unable to control immigration levels?SeanT said:Interesting in the light of what I wrote, earlier
https://twitter.com/econbuttonwood/status/7514228236887326720 -
Its post-facto rationalisation, but Brexit might force the political classes to make some of those 'tough decisions' they've been wittering about for decades.TOPPING said:
Yep. We can't handle the truth.John_M said:
They have to be untruthful. The country would go into meltdown if they were told the truthAlanbrooke said:
theyre all untruthful, thats why theyre politicians.SquareRoot said:
I guess you don't care how untruthful our politicians are. I do,Alanbrooke said:
the Mayists are too busy pursuing their womb with a view scandalSeanT said:
Yes, and too much sneering and chortling will win Leadsom precious sympathy.williamglenn said:
The risk is that all this overblown opprobrium will lower the bar she needs to step over in the coming weeks. Leadsom may not be PM material but she's clearly got some political talent.bunnco said:News from South Oxfordshire Council, where Loathesome was a Councillor:. My Man in the Robes tells me she was "Lazy, useless and stupid". More comedy gold to mine from that rich seam in the weeks to come.
bunnco. Your man on the spot
The best strategy, for her opponents, is to step back and let her trip over her own contradictions. She's already on record saying "the £ will not fall after Brexit".
it's just amazing the politicos get one of their biggest kicking in living memory and they still think we give a fuck about where they get their hair done..
The irony being that the Brexit vote is likely to do something that no politician dared: rebase our economy by slashing property prices by 30% or so and scaring people off excessive household debt thereby for generations.
Like, maybe build a new runway. Or build a few houses. Or fund the NHS by actually raising taxes. Abolish the triple lock. Baby steps.0 -
TBH I can’t think of one that didn’t fail. Nor, TBH, one from the West Country. Successful rebellions have always had to have London involved.oxfordsimon said:
Northern rebellions do tend to fail. And there is no evidence that this will be anything different...Pulpstar said:
The King in the north !SouthamObserver said:Absolutely not a cult ...
https://twitter.com/laboureoin/status/751833022933110784
Kings in the north quite often end up dead....0
